Willow Creek's "Seeker Sensitive" Failure (Alan Cairns)

[lwestraad]

Um? That's why Willow is still hosting the amazing Leadership Summit and other leader building conferences...and their doctrine...well what do you know about it? And I guess Paul was "weak or immature in his faith" according to your definition.

[Jdfurly]

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesians 4:31-32

[Jdfurly]

Christianity is not about the politics of religion. Christianity is about forming a relationship with the one true God, forming a relationship with a community of believers, and showing God's love to the world as it overflows in us. Any dogmatic Christian bigot that criticizes his fellow Christians instead of recognizing that they, TOGETHER, are the body of Christ, is a very ignorant person. And this is why we see Moralistic Therapeutic Deism becoming so prevalent in the "Christian" church.

[Jdfurly]

So, after listening to Alan Cairns drone on about the supposed failure of another church, I have an observation about his message:

He fails to remember the CORE of Christianity, which is God's love. Instead of extending that love to his FELLOW Christians who are simply trying to reach the world in new ways, he internalizes that love and forms it into self-righteousness, and then becomes condescending. Remember Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

[titus2one]

Willow Creek isn't even a Church is it? They don't worship but they cheer to a concert. They don't have Scriptural teaching but they do have self help motivation speeches. So what is Willow? A business!

[MrAngryVegetarian]

"It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." Philippians 1:15-18

[Imfrgvn]

Its too bad that fellow Christians have to "slam" Pastor Hybels and Willow Creek. I have attended Willow Creek and its basis is "All Jesus". There is too much going on in this world to have christians against christians. Willow speaks for itself, it has, will and always will transform lives.

[rcarrido1]

If you have not been baptised in the Name OF JESUS. By which name heals and is the way the truth and the light.

[7thlove]

AMEN

[ChicagoNeilcon]

I think that if there were an 11th Commandment, it would be directed to the Ministry. "Thou shalt not covet another Minister's Flock". He immediately went off base defining 'Seeker-sensative' as "Just another way of asking people what they want, and give it to them". And using the word 'scheme' to define Willowcreeks method of being an 'Acts 2' Church.Facts: 1)Bill Hybels ministers the Gospel, 2) He has led more people to Jesus Chist (including me) than almost any other church leader. Rock On

[ChicagoNeilcon]

I think that if there were an 11th Commandment, it would be directed to the Ministry. "Thou shalt not covet another Minister's Flock". He immediately went off base defining 'Seeker-sensative' as "Just another way of asking people what they want, and give it to them". And using the word 'scheme' to define Willowcreeks method of being an 'Acts 2' Church.Facts: 1)Bill Hybels ministers the Gospel, 2) He has led more people to Jesus Chist (including me) than almost any other church leader. Rock On

[tuberslb]

Cairns has spoken the truth in love. It is always difficult to hear that what feels good or sounds good to us is not in accord with God's word and God's instruction. Hopefully many will see this and pray for Hybels and Willow Creek to return to sound doctrine.

[altarofego]

So when did Caims sit down with Hybels and ask, "Does this mean that you believe now that you have not been following God or obeying the Scriptures? Does this mean that you were wrong in your strategy that sought to reach out to seekers with a different kind of church structure?" When did Alan and Bill chat, giving Dr Caims the insight into Hybels heart and mind that he would need to have in order to legitimately make these claims?

[staragain]

What's "it"?

[LaneCh]

@staragain The Gospel.

[staragain]

HAHAHA...This guy is so funny at jokes. He tells some of the funniest jokes in the United States of America. HAHAHA!!! I would be interested in finding out if this guy shares Christ with anyone under the age of 60. - Chris

[LaneCh]

@staragain I'm 30, and he shared it with me.

[joetrainer31]

@staragain I'm 36. I just heard his message.

[cojeda415]

THIS IS HOW small churches justify staying small.

[RushBear]

@cojeda415 Spot on!

[youngblood328]

how is this video evil?

he's right. we are not called to base our efforts on results. we are in the obedience business. god is in the results business.

not that we cannot use modern methods, but our final judge of right and wrong is not results, but God's word.

Yes,the expression of church could stand a facelift, but not at the cost of truth.

[firish51]

@youngblood328 Hybel's awareness of the Holy Spirit on his conscience. 2 Timothy4:2-4 Preach the word! Be ready ine season and out of season. Convince,rebuke, exhort,with all longsuffering and teaching,For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables. Fight the good fight my friend...

[altarofego]

@youngblood328 It is wrong b/c he attacks far more than an issue. He attacks a real person by misrepresenting the ministry of Willow & the facts exposed by the Reveal study. I will give him the benefit of the doubt & consider that he just doesn't know enough to make a more reasoned assessment of what the ministry of Hybels and Willow is all about. But he could not be more wrong about them. I'm not saying Caims is wrong for what he believes about God. But he clearly does not know Hybels.

[pianohbc]

@altarofego If you study Hybels background, mentored with Warren by 33rd degree freemason Robert Schuller and using an anti- Biblical church building basis - it seems that Cairns is merely consolidating evidence in truth

[kelanglin1]

this is terrible. I am so ashamed of this man's terrible and negative words against Willowcreek! Shame on you!

[loveworthfinding]

It's true; a kingdom divided will not stand. That is why non-Biblical elements posing within the church need to be exposed and expelled. And that's why videos like this are important.

[uksno]

Perhaps the author of this video needs to check his motives and also scripture forthat matter -

"Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

[hithereart]

Very twisted interpretation. Check your

source of such mislead info & thoughts. Sorry to hear such evil inspired gossip. :( Actually, if you are truly a man of GOD, I don't think you sincerely believe what you are saying...correct? Could there be any other reason you are telling these lies?

[Zaandy]

The "seeker-senstive" movement is contrary to Scripture. It is based on the assumption that there are lost souls seeking after God. Scripture flatly denies this. God Himself tells us in Romans 3:11 that NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD.

[hithereart]

The Evil one has surely entered into this sad video! If anyone is GOD driven it's BILL HYBELS!!! God has used Bill to bring

thousands, if not millions, to JESUS as

their Savior through the over 14,000

WCA churches around the world!!!

[arcofilliuslirimaer]

It's funny... i came to this video after listening to Bill Hybels preaching on offering your body as a living sacrifice...

[hermanogflores]

great but when is he gonna change his whole agenda of the willow creek association and have all his books removed from bookstores? They've done so much damage to the body of Christ as it is. He has a lot of blood on his hands.

[olr333]

Dear Wunji1 and "pastor" Cairns,

"For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:2 Wow, do I feel sorry for you on that final day. Willow Creek rocks!!

[hermanogflores]

so in your view, discernment is wrong. Never mind what the Apostle Paul said in Acts chapter 20 right? Check out the video I just uploaded. if you want real Holy Ghost preaching listen to Carter Conlon.

[Wunji1]

To the Jews God said, If you will walk in My ways, and if you will keep My command, then you shall also judge My house (Zech. 3:7). Shall I go on? How about- Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them. (Prov. 24:25).

[Wunji1]

Here is 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 in full - Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? (1 Cor. 6:2-5).

[Wunji1]

A few words about judging...Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24) and He praised a man who rightly judged (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because no one among them was willing to judge the smallest matters (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, He who is spiritual judges all things for we have the mind of Christ (1 Cor. 2:15-16).

[Wunji1]

You can always tell the immature, or weak in the faith. They are the ones who say "Don't pass judgment" - "Casting terrible judgment"... Listen, we are called to judge those within the church, even leaders. Do you people read the bible? It as a book of books containing the very words of God. Ever hear of it? Maybe if you would stop putting people on pedestals, then you might find time to read it...

I wrote a piece on this very subject not so long ago. I will post it here following here.

[Joegreen720]

@Wunji1 AMEN!!

[az4son]

What a mess. My guess, he has never been to Willow Creek. Please don't pass judgement on this ministry. Visit Willow and decide for yourself.

[hermanogflores]

You don't have to visit there. You can go to their website and see what they believe. They offer donwloadable "field tested" sermons for crying out loud. wake up!

[az4son]

In 1987, I came to know the Lord Jesus. Willow Creek teaching was Amazing. I thank God that Bill Hybels was obedient to the call. Praise God, He choice a great man for the job.

[hermanogflores]

That's great. God can use anyone. Doesn't mean we take every word( from from the person that was used) as the Gospel Truth.  That's how we end up with cults..

[whatwouldscoobydoo1]

I love the way the opening says 'preaching Jesus Christ in all his fullness' and then seems to revel in deriding a fellow follower and casting terrible judgement on a brother in Christ.

Please refocus your energy on feeding the poor, healing the sick and making disciples of all nations - nowhere do read that we should spend our time tearing down the ministry of others. It is sinful and destructive behaviour and nobody benefits from it, please stop!

[LaneCh]

In other videos I've posted, you've written how you disagree with them even going to the extent of saying that the videos are motivated by jealousy. Then you come on here and say that we shouldn't tear down the ministry of others. I guess your church doesn't teach you about hypocrisy much.

[Jdfurly]

@LaneCh I guess your church doesn't teach you about dogma, self-righteousness, and bigotry much.

[pianohbc]

@whatwouldscoobydoo1 You have missed the part of the gospel that commands us to expose the works of darkness- discern truth and not cast our pearls before swine- help the immoral brother and protect the vulnerable believers for deception - in short- declare the gospel in its fulness, not just in part

[MsAllisonLeslie]

@whatwouldscoobydoo1 ditto

[Vidrinejordan05]

@whatwouldscoobydoo1 Actually, the only people christians have the right to judge is other christians, we shouldnt be concerned with judging the world because they dont know christ. They are only addressing the heresies and ear ticklers. They arent judging, these people are WRONG, these people are ushering in an era of a one world, self help, feel good religion. They make it not about Gods death and forgiveness of our sins, but make it about works.

[ScottMacFie]

@Vidrinejordan05: I disagree, we have the right to judge, comment & criticize, as well as WARN the world about false prophets & religions based UPON those false prophets, such as Mormonism & Islam--both of which are tools of Satan. Muslims claim they believe Jesus is a prophet, yet, add to his word thru the rantings of a psychotic child molester named Mohammed. Mormons claim Jesus is "a" son of God, but that Joseph Smith somehow could add falsehoods to the Holy Scriptures 2,000 years later.

[solagratiaptl]

What a God exalting, discerning, encouraging word. Thank you pastor Cairns.

I don't believe Willow Creek was condenmed, but rather that philosophy which has made her an international leader.

Do you remember when Jesus sent the rich young ruler away? Does that sound seeker sensitive to you?

[LarryD22548]

This is the funniest things I've seen. Why isn't it listed under comedy?

OR I would agree. This is really scarey! Is this the face of Christ's church?

[bushtrmr]

God bless Willow creek its about time the church quits he stagnit worship full of christians we need lost people and willow creek brings them !!!

[olr333]

Is this for real? This guy is scary.

[tigerwa]

ughhh

[Floatingaxe]

This is stupid and full of pride.

[neibthe]

Here's the thing, self promoting piousness, convinces no one, accomplishes nothing but only feed ones pride, it saves no soul not even your own....think about it!

[frbjoern]

If Alan Cairns were not heartbreakingly serious he might be humorously entertaining. A member of the heretical s.c. Free Presbyterian Church of North America calling Mormons a "pernicious perversion" of the Gospel of our blessed Lord Jesus Christ and telling us that Mormon believers in our Lord Jesus Christ, their Saviour and ours and the Saviour of the world, are not Christians! It would be easier to believe that the Heretic John Knox wasn't a Christian, although by God's grace, he was!

[skamatrix]

It was a recently produced study provided by them, of which all of the other 500 churches they tested had the same results, along with your church Alan.

K thanks...

[McKennahLane]

Willow Creek's Scheme?

Hello?

I am a member of Willow. I was PART of that survey!

I think that you misunderstnad what was said. Willow Creek is STILL for seekers. there are STILL programs..and thank GOD for them (something that you folks OUTSIDE of willow-especially those who point fingers and scorn-don't understand) but those who are mor mature in their faith, yes, we DID say... continue to teach us DEEPER. And weillow has stepped up with deeper options as well. God Bless Willow!

[patreadwell]

Willow Creek is the only one to admit this error. The church as a whole needs to be flushed out with God honoring exegetically teaching and preaching and when necessary church discipline even to the point of excommunication.

[lookwhatgodcando]

I am a new seeker and am very sensitive because of all the legalism that was crammed down my throat as a new believer how am i to know whats true when the preacher is teaching out of one side of his mouth we are not a legalistic church and out of the other side of his mouth he says we are not to listen to any music with a beat because thats being like the world but isn't his new motorcycle worldly no movies no contemporary Christian music no raising and swaying of hands only hyms from the 1500s

[mikesgunsandammo]

Willow did admit to this, and now is trying new things. This is not needed. It's just church bashing. It seems to me that there should be more union and no divisions.

If we are united in Christ, there should be no differences. Remember, in the first century church, there were no denominations.

Amen?

[biblicalperception]

You mean you want to open the church for any evil? Its friendship with the world Willow Creek/Saddleback practices and is has to be criticized. Read 2. Timothothy 2, 2. Cor 6 ..

[Singsinglala]

This is really very negative! Why do we Christians still refuse to appreciate each other? Making each other small is counterproductive. I'm sure we can find "mistakes" in each and every church! I hope for the ones who are responsible for this radio edit that they show the same greatness as Hybles and Co did when confronted with their own failure!

[mckenna911]

Because we are not called upon to appreciate each other. We are called to be accountable to each other. Your comment shows me just how shallow the teaching you are receiving is.

[Singsinglala]

Just for your information: I'm not a member of Willow Creek! I've even never been to a Willow Creek church since in the country I grew up and in the one I live now there are no such churches. - The teaching I received I wouldn't call shallow at all! You have no idea about what teaching I receive. So be careful! I might be a trained theologian of the same church you are attending. I'm not saying that I am but I am saying that you don't know.

[Singsinglala]

Our reason for making the point that union is important comes out of accountability as well. Did it ever cross you mind that maybe we are worried as much about you as you are about us? - Besides unity is not the invention of some "liberal", watered-down Christians, it is the desire of Christ himself (Ever read John 17?). - Of course it is not about embracing just every possible teaching which is out there.

[Singsinglala]

Instead unity is hard work. It is much easier and cosy to just remain with what you think is right, being together only with like-minded people, not having to deal with "the others". But if you and me go this easy way we do not help each other becoming more like Jesus, and we might miss some very important points from his teaching. To fall short of helping each other in those ways can be considered even as a kind of sin. - We need each other - if we like it or not.

[dmaurer123]

Why is this video necessary?

Willow recognized their failure, they confessed at, and they turned away from it. And now you seek to smear it in their face?

Where is Christ in that?

[Zonebone]

Yea it's still funny that regardless of their admittance they haven't changed much...

[rmgeorge9]

Well, it seems as if this sermon was not using the bible as the foundation of its message. However, no matter how you label something, i.e., Seeker-sensitive, or other, if you are teaching from the bible, only the bible, and people are hearing and understanding the message a becoming a Christ following person then you're doing what Christ asked. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations ..." Matthew 28:19 Seems like this is what is Willow is doing. Next.

[bearfan1977]

I have never attended Willow, however I have watched a number of sermons on line. All they are guilty of is following the Great Commission to preach the word to the lost. I am always saddened when pastors use the pulpit as a place to tear down other churches. If a church is teaching the Bible and not preaching false doctrine thy are building up the kingdom of God, how they go about doing this should not matter. The constant fighting in the Christian church is killing it.

[LaneCh]

Well, since you haven't been, they won't listen to you if they're consistent. Everytime someone critiques them, they hold that it isn't valid because we haven't attended a service in person. If they accepted praise from someone who hasn't attended a service either, perhaps it would be time to introduce them to the idea of the hypocritical double standard and encourage them to avoid it.

[hotpasta2406]

So many of these comments are based on total ignorance by people who have never been to Willow, much less met Bill or his team. I have and I would say this guy is so off the mark, he should get his facts straight before he wastes his time and ours.

[tolhouse1609]

Maybe it should be considered a club, and not a church. Perhaps the issue has to be whether or not

this is an authorized church of Jesus Christ.

There is only one.

[hope2play]

All you have to do is go to the speakers church website and instantly one thing is clear. They do not know how to reach anybody. Thousands of churches around the world give credit in part to Billy Hybels and his influence generating from Willow Creek.

[olr333]

As a Willow Creek attender, I am mildly amused at the ignorant critiques of the church presented here ad nauseum; it is fiction. To those of you who still have an open mind about Willow Creek, do not depend on this 'forum'.

[PENWESTERN]

Willow Creek is not a failure. It has helped me to be a better seeker. I enjoy the inspirational free services. It is much cheaper than going to the Club. The restaurant is tasty too. Count me in each week for some really great FREE entertainment.

[pgc555]

I listened to this editorial again and listened to Dr. Cairns quote an un-named Ohio radio personality whom in turn was a quote by the Baptist Press to make his comments on what Greg Hawkins said. Hear say.Dr. Carins decided that it was more important to comment on WillowCreek rather than to actually preach the Gospel during his sermon on this select day in his church?Why?

WillowCreek is not a threat to a South Carolina church as to sheep stealing.I understand this talk is a year old.

[pgc555]

I was wondering when Dr.Cairns has actually BEEN to Willow Creek Church.I feel the best way to have an informed comment is to actually visit for myself. I do plan to visit Dr. Cairns Church during an upcoming trip. I will then post a review of his Church from my personal experience

[theatwo]

Does one really need to actually visit a church to make an informed comment. Pastor Hybels has produce teaching series, books, and has many audio video resources available. After reviewing any of these resources one could se that: preaching is out programs are in, doctrine is less important than decoration. please compare the bible to these "resource guides". A pastor is not called by God to build a church and be a life coach. A pastor is called by God to preach Christ and him Crucified.

[pgc555]

WillowCreek preaches Jesus' death on the cross as our only hope. His blood is the only salvation we have.The comment by Greg Hawkins that Willow Creek wants to "fundamentally change" the way we do Church means the WAY the gospel is presented NOT the Gospel itself. The Gospel IS the power to change people BUT you have to have people there to hear it.Willow is trying ways to invite people,friend,family to hear the word and the Holy Spirit will draw them to Christ.

[the13thof12]

Christ said things that he knew would drive people away. The seeker-sensitive model says that's wrong. I wonder what Bill Hybels thinks about Jesus willingness to be relevent when he reads how Jesus pared his audience down from several thousand to twelve with his teaching in John 6. A seeker sensitive church would never deliver a message that would drive 5,000 people away and yet Jesus seemed to have no problem with it. So whom do I follow? Do I follow Hybels or Christ? As for me and my house...

[grammastola]

With all due respect, are you suggesting that one must actually visit a church in order to make an informed judgment? As opposed to, say, relying on what the pastors have publicly written and taught?

Y'know, most pastors have never attended a Mormon or JW service, nor have they ever witnessed any Islamic rituals. Nevertheless, they can make judgments based on what these churches teach -- after all, these are matters of public record.

[pgc555]

Please read my most recent posts

[nemodance]

The truth shall set you free. What is the truth?

[pittedthighs]

Truth is absolute, metaphysical certainty. GOD's Word is Truth

[unixlink]

NOT Eisegesis/Exegesis. "It's best to stick to what God is actually trying to tell us and not add or take away from it." That's exactly what i'm trying to do LaneCh. John 7:24 says "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteously." - I don't think this scripture meant "judge someone negatively". I've been trying to explain that on my previous comments. Below, LaneCh said "Jesus commands us to judge (John 7:24)",but I'd say NOT in a negative manner like in this video or name-calling.

[unixlink]

what I don't understand :( is that christians try diligently to live according to God's teachings and follow the leadership of Christ Jesus in their lives and yet there are still christians attacking other christians by judging each other. WHY?? all of us christ followers are all sinners, so WHY do we stand and talk about how other christians are doing things for the glory of God?? is there a right or wrong way of teaching God's word?.

[LaneCh]

Because not all of us are Christians. Some of us are charlatans who want to use Christ's name to get a lot of money, popularity, or grow the numbers of a church. There is a right way to teach God's Word - that is to actually teach God's Word. Since there's a right way, there's obviously a wrong way, too. Hybels is an entertainer.

[unixlink]

I completely agree. there are those that use God's promise of salvation to acquire worldly possessions. But the ONE thing i'm always very careful and concerned about is my personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. I am not perfect; so i try NOT to judge or talk about how other people(Christians or not) live their lives or how they do things. Because I am a sinner, who am I to say that a person is right or wrong. so again, WHY?? do we judge others?? that's God's job. (Matthew 7:1-5)

[LaneCh]

Everyone has a personal relationship with God. The question is "is it one of wrath or is it favorable?"

As far as your judging comment, Jesus actually commands us to judge:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteously." (John 7:24)

[unixlink]

Thanks for the replies Lane.Please pardon me if I drag this on.I am just seeking more understanding of God's words. In Matt 7:1-5 Jesus taught us not to judge others because we have our own dirt to cleanup before we can judge or help others; if we are sinners, then we are not clean, therefore how can we judge righteously if we have dirt on us? and how can we have a favorable relationship with God if we see ourselves righteous enough to judge others? i just think love is better than judgement.

[LaneCh]

I understand, and I thought that's what Matthew 7:1-5 was talking about, too, for a long time until I looked at the context. Who is Jesus talking to there? Is he talking to disciples or hypocritical Pharisees? He's talking to the latter. If we were to take the interpretation that he's talking to everyone in Matthew 7:1-5 then obviously the Bible contradicts itself in John 7:24 and is no longer valuable. The interpretation is that he was talking to those who used unrighteous judgment in 7:1-5.

[unixlink]

true, i see how the puzzle fits together now. thanks. but in John 7:24 would the phrase "do not judge according to appearance,but judge with righteous judgement" be interpreted as "do not judge the actions of others by how your eyes see it, but look deeper at what they are trying to do which is to heal others in the name of the Lord"? i say this because isn't the context of 7:24 talking about people judging Jesus for healing on the Sabbath? so he said,don't look at what you see,but what I did?

[LaneCh]

Eisegesis is reading something into the text that isn't there. Exegesis is just saying what it says. To say that the text says, "which is to heal others in the name of the Lord" is a clear case of eisegesis. It is nowhere in the text. In fact, John 7 isn't even talking about healings. It's talking about the Pharisee's unbelief and Jesus' teaching. It's best to stick to what God is actually trying to tell us and not add or take away from it.

[unixlink]

you misunderstood. i know it's not about healing but in John 7:21-23 "I did one work and you all marveled.Moses therefore gave you circumcision(), and you circumcise on the sabbath. "if a man receives circumcision on the sabbath so that the law of moses should not be broken, are you angry with me because I made a man well on the sabbath?" - the people and Jesus did different "acts" on the sabbath but both is for the same purpose which is to do good. "don't judge by what you see ... John 7:24"

[unixlink]

so when you said "Hybels is an entertainer" is your judgement based on what you see him doing? or what he "appears" to be doing? all I'm saying is that he is doing things differently but at the same time he could be doing a great deal of good for others. I researched his campaign in africa, it has helped feed thousands of starving children on the brink of death from starvation and he has other "programs" as well. we really don't know the good he's doing. 7:24, "do not according to appearance..."

[Psylliumhead]

AMEN!

[Bronxloyalist]

Finally a true Christian voice telling it like it is.Free Presbyterianism is true Presbyterianism.

[tedted33]

Amen

[linkzoo]

Amen!!! Truth beautifully spoken!!!

[ReformedLou]

Preach it, Brother Cairns!