Zeitgeist fraud about Jesus and Christianity. They show unrealistic data and correlation. Anybody who is interested in the topic can Google "Jesus & Horus Parallels - A Christian Response" Here you'll find how many stupid thing do they say in the movie!!!
In Spanish it is still "Los Tres Reyes Magos", or loosely translated: The Three Magi Kings. A good read on the term used for the 3 wise men/kings/magi is found by doing a Wikipedia search for "Biblical Magi".
Part II: You also mention the sky in Greece & Rome during the time of Jesus - what does that have to do with anything? The Roman bible known today was created centuries after the assumed death of Jesus. Not to mention the original writings (most of which were burned) which show an extremely different picture of Jesus, his disciples and Christianity as a whole. Yet, those writings also (the ones found so far at least) were, again, written much after Jesus' assumed death.
Part I: While you make great facts, I must say that you are misleading just as Zeitgeist, especially when it comes to Astronomy & images of the sky at certain times & locations. Who said that Jesus was born in or next to Jerusalem? (Bethlehem of the Galilee is most likely the place, assuming Jesus ever existed). Who said that the story of Jesus was written during his life time or even close to it? You also seem to assume that the bible was never edited, which is now a historical fact.
The NT was written in the first century. The First Epistle of Clement was an early church document known to have been written around AD 96. It makes references to several NT books and Jesus' divinity. Also, the apostles died for their witness of Jesus. They would've known whether or not they ate with and touched Jesus after He was crucified and resurrected, and they willingly gave their lives. Either Jesus really is the Son of God, or the apostles willingly died for a lie.
There is YouTube channel owned by William Lane Craig called "DrCraigVideos". He has some really good stuff on NT scholarship. However, even if the Bible was edited, that doesn't falsify Christianity. Christianity is true if Jesus really did resurrect, regardless of the Bible's inerrancy. As I mentioned before, the apostles died for their witness of the resurrection. Dr. Craig also has some very good stuff on the resurrection as well. I highly recommend you look at it.
@andrewa312 Actuallyy, Jesus was of Nazareth, he was most likely born there to a standard family of carpenters, let's not forget he had siblings after him. The Belehem issue is surey a huge chinese story (that means it's a huge thing and story, but ultimately ridiculous and false), just like the "Moses abandoned in the river" story. Fact is, Jesus was one of the most amazing men to have ever lived.
One thing is really irritating here..you say the bible / christianity never mentioned 3 kings? surprises me you never heard of the 3 kings?
anyway, it is funny as always. there is one side claiming something like Zeitgeist, starting a movement. then there is the other side starting also a movement claiming against those people like Zeitgeist, trying to reveal lies.
The end of the story. I DO NOT BELIEVE ONE OF YOU, cause every sentence said contains a bit of the truth,no matter from which side
1) the Bible simply doesnt mention 3 kings. "Three Kings" come from the popular Christmas song, not the 4 gospel accounts. The phrase used in the Bible was magi, or "wise men", not kings, there's a difference. So obviously, we have heard of the 3 kings, but the Bible says they were magi.
2) The Bible doesn't say that there were 3 magi, only that there were 3 gifts. It doesn't say how many magi were there. Be careful not to read traditions into the text.
@TheKoolic Have you read the Bible? If not, then it's clear you're an ignorant. NEVER in the Bible are "Three Kings" mentioned. Only "Magi came and gave three presents" is of the Bible. Not even the number of Magi is stated. Magi were Zoroastrian priests, never in hell could someone suppose they were Orion's 3 King Stars! I'm a srious religious scholar, and not some amateur idiot, I immediately denounced Zeitgeist as a HUGE lie, filled with LIES and ERRORS all over, it's useless and worthless.
@ganondorf59 Have you ever read another book than the bible? If not you are even more ignorant but moreover arrogant towards life! Think about it, seriously!
@TheKoolic As a matter of fact, my librairy currently houses 1279 read books. Among these, 23 are religious "holy" books. I'm a scholar, are you? No. You are the ignorant fool here.
You know, it doesn't matter what the author of this video believes. So far he seems to have his facts straight. The important lesson I'm taking away from this series is that the first film in the Zeitgeist trilogy was founded on blatant lies. I'm an atheist and I care about truth. If this is how Zeitgeist sold their movement then fuck them, they are untrustworthy.
@OutlawGrrl It's important to remember that the first Zeitgeist "film" wasn't a documentary; it was the artistic expression of Peter Joseph. He has been very clear about that.
Your a religous Doochebag that wastes, space and energy on a bunch religous debate when you should be talking about how to make sollutions that are suggested by the Zeitgeist movement other than complaining about how it called your a religion or whatever you call it fake you dumb ass lets all come together and make one union so we can stop using "religion" as tool for war and melesting hundreds of thousands of children!!
@jgroves56 I see. Religion has been used as a tool. However, people twist perfectly good causes for their own selfish interests all the time. It isn't limited to religion and it doesn't change the original cause. You can judge Christianity by sinful men who may or may not actually be saved, or you can judge it by Christ, who was willing to die for a sinful world. Christ's sacrifice is the most precious gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
@ggcage You are a good example of how we are brainwashed from a early age with this religious nonsense.You are proof of a corrupt system,when you reinforce your opposition to such causes with religious lies, that you are fully aware of.I think as human beings, we need to do things that are right and just for all.Not just do things because of the false traditions and beliefs we have been taught.
@religionisharmful I see, but let me ask you this. What do you believe is right and wrong? Don't you primarily believe that because of how you were raised and that's what the culture says is right and wrong? Is that not a belief/ tradition? I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody is capable of thinking in a cultural vacuum. Religion is not harmful, as long as it is not twisted for selfish purposes. Traditions and beliefs are not harmful so long as they do not violate reason.
@ggcage That may be true. A fully objective mind should not take this as a question about if religions should exist or not. It is just about seeing where it came from and having a scientific approach to different historical facts. I understand that some things in Zeitgeist may not be true but you cannot say that your belief is 100 % untouched by myth either, whether they be pre or post Jesus Christ. This issue may never be resolved but I do appreciate the importance you give to reason. Not Done!
@ggcage Furthermore, I believe that it is difficult to believe in such stories (not saying their fiction) when historical evidence is so scarce. I think I speak for most of us unbiased intellectuals when I say, I hope that we do not offend anyone when we question religion. I (we ?) would be more than happy to convert to any religion, we just need rational and unbiased proof. Let God or Jesus or whatever show us they exist and we shall follow. What tells you the world isn't simply an illusion? :)
@Farshid2236 I see. But let me ask you this. What exactly would you consider as convincing evidence of a particular religion? What would you expect from a religion that is true?
@ggcage Well, convincing evidence of a particuliar religion would be the backing of conventionally accepted historians that are contemporary to the time of an event/person that the religion claims to have existed. Second, I expect everything from a religion to be true for if a religion tells us only part of the truth and lies to us, whether big or small, no objective and logical person could ever have total faith in that religion without being brainwashed. I thus don't believe in religions.
@Farshid2236 I presume that you mean that there are no contemporary historians who say anything of Jesus' miracles. What you have to realize is this wasn't the information age. If it wasn't for the apostles, the miracles of Jesus probably wouldn't have spread beyond the villages they occurred in. However, the apostles willingly died for their testimony of Christ's resurrection. The rapid expansion of Christianity in the 1st century is evidence of this. There can be no greater testimony.
@ggcage I am sorry dear believer but it not being the information age just is not scientifically or historically plausible. Older testimonies of other great men and civilizations exist. Additionally, you claim that the apostles willingness to die for Jesus. I and many others can today be executed by an authority for preaching the existence of The Flying Spaghetti Monster (for example), would you then believe me ? And if you didn't but a whole continent did, would that be irrefutable proof ?
Yes, but many of those people were of great political power, hence were the focus of the historians at the time. Besides, there is nonbiblical historical evidence of Jesus. The following videos show some of this evidence...
First of all, nobody has ever been executed for their beliefs of FSM, and nobody ever will. But, even if people seriously believed in FSM, and were willing to die for that belief, all that would prove is that they really did believe in FSM. Since none of them had ever actually *seen* FSM, they can't be compared to the apostles who died for their first hand witness of Jesus.
The apostles died for their claim that they had witnessed the resurrection of Jesus. Now, either they really did witness the resurrection of Jesus or they did not. If they didn't then they would have known that they didn't, which means that they would have been going out, risking their lives over and over again, without any hope of getting worldly gain out of it, all for nothing. They would have purposefully gotten themselves killed for no apparent reason.
@ggcage You cannot know that none of them has actually never *seen* the FSM just as we cannot know that he apostles have ever *seen* Jesus or his resurrection. The fact of the matter is that your evidence that Jesus existed are testimonies from a group of people justified only by their claims. People have died for their beliefs many times for no apparent reason (Heaven's Gate, Order of the Solar Temple, Peoples Temple, etc...) yet we consider their belief as a cult or a sect, not for Christendom
There is a big difference between those martyrs and the apostles. Every other martyr dies for what they were taught. Heaven's Gate and those others died for what they were taught. The apostles died for what they saw. It's primary vs secondary evidence.
I see, but Lee Strobel's video does show that Christianity wasn't given myth-like properties over time. It would have had to change quickly which is very unlikely because early Christians held strongly to their beliefs and they would have noticed a change in doctrine as being false doctrine. Also, why do you consider everything in the Bible, including its history, as untrustworthy? You can't just throw out the entire Bible. After all, it does contain a lot of prophecy.
@ggcage I'm sorry, I may be missing something here, when have I said to throw out the Bible ? I never contradicted the chronology or timing of the events in the Bible, I just question their authenticity. You made a very good point about the martyrs and the apostles being different but you cannot deny there have been primary evidence martyrs of non-Christian belief in history. Also, I don't understand why the Bible containing prophecy makes it untouchable.
I'm sorry. I may have misunderstood you. I see what you mean by the non-Christian martyrs, but the apostles died for a solely religious purpose. Another example of primary martyrs are the early Muslim martyrs. But what you have to realize is that Muhammad and a lot of his close followers gained a lot of political power. They didn't die only for a religious cause, where the apostles had no hope of worldly gain, so the apostles are still set apart from other martyrs.
What's so significant about prophecy is that only God can predict the future with accuracy. If the Bible contains prophecy then it must be God's word. Some may argue that the Bible may have originally been God's word, but has been corrupted. But what you have to realize is that God is capable of preserving His word. The Jews were meticulous scribes, they would not have dared change God's word and God would not have let them fail in preserving His word.
@ggcage In your first video Mr. Strobel uses biblical sources which completely refute his entire argumentation and is therefore unacceptable in a fully objective, historical way. In your second video, which uses non-biblical sources, something I greatly appreciate, none of the historians cited lived at Jesus' time to give a direct first-hand testimony of his existence. Additionally, the number of parallels between Christ and other prophets can only make us doubt the authenticity of Jesus' life.
@ggcage Do you believe in Medicine? If you do, then you cannot be a believer in Christ, in my opinion. Physicians use their knowledge to assess a particular ilness, and treat it using physical things (let's say, open-heart surgery, chemotherapy). Jesus healed the wounded with faith, something we can't even grasp with our senses. Of course, when we tell this to a Christian, his brain will have to choose between taking my idea, or his current thought. And dissonance cannot be mantained.
@efusiongaming I see, but let me ask you this. When you are really sick and you go to have surgery, don't you have faith that the doctor who is going to cut you open has the skills to do heal you and not get you killed?
I guess what I'm saying is this. Faith is more than just blind belief. If that's faith then why did Jesus perform miracles? Faith is trusting. Just like you trust the surgeon to do his job, you trust Jesus Christ to save you from the punishment of sin, and from sin itself.
@ggcage I don't have faith because it's a matter of common sense. Of course there isn't a SINGLE thing in the Universe that is completely taken as granted, and science is based on that particular fact, not telling the truth but getting 10 steps closer to it at every time. We all need a sort of "faith", obviously! Faith that gravity isn't changing in the next 10 seconds. Faith that not one of the 10000 gamma rays that hit Earth each day don't obliterate us.
@ggcage So basically, it a sort of belief but it isn't a blind one so it isn't faith. I don't need to have faith in a doctor because the fact that he's there proves to a certain degree that he was smart enough to go through medschool. The only thing backing up your theory is a book that is ages old, reporting a man that healed the sick, etc... I can't assess the veracity of things that do not exist so it's impossible for me to even say i believe in Christ because it's physically impossible.
@ggcage It's a hard deal, believing in Christ. Choosing to reject a source of relative truth from empirical evidence, that has explained and dealed with many problems in this world (Science) or accept that God made this all up.
I'm sorry there are lots of retards out here that will just bash religion in nonsensical ways, not even opening the possibility to discuss this. Also, I enjoyed the video thoroughly. Zeitgeist is a skeptic's heaven until you look at the fine lines.
@efusiongaming Thank you for your kind words. That was actually part of my point. God does not want us to have blind faith, but He wants us to trust in His Son, Jesus. Biblical faith is trust. If God had wanted us to have blind faith then why did He give us hundreds of prophecies? Why did He make His attributes known through creation? and why did He give us the eyewitness testimonies of the apostles, who willingly died for their first hand witness of Christ, without any worldly gain?
didnt the years, 2000 years ago, have only 10 months or at least an other amount of months a year? which is why this alignment of the star thing happens more prominently in one of our earlier months than what we know as december? its what my history teacher kept telling. just throwing it out there...
@DjDafader The thing is that things like the winter solstice and the seasonal cycle repeat every 365.25 years. Most ancient cultures recognized this with some degree of accuracy. While they may have broke the year down into months differently, each culture would have still had roughly 365 days in their year.
Truth = if I hit you with a hammer, it WILL hurt. = Fact
Religion = You believe I won't hit you with a hammer = Faith
Religious fundys of ALL faiths, stop spouting your religion as "The Truth". You have no more idea what the truth is, than an atheist, a shaman or a pope does.
@YnoT0207 The Sun doesn't "die" for 3 days anymore than it "dies" for 1 day, or 5 days, or relatively short amount of time. Also, "Sun" and "Son" were not the same in the ancient languages that the Bible was written in. There is no evidence that Christianity was a copycat myth. ZG is just connecting dots that it wishes to so it can come up with a way to disprove and avoid Jesus. My question is, why would you want to avoid someone who was willing die on a cross for your eternal salvation?
Your supposed to worship what "god" has written on your heart - not his messenger. The Bible is a collection of stories + myths. I won't call it completely fictional because, like any good book, it mixes in current-day wars, lifestyles, politics, etc...
That's true, but ZG is still far, far short of proving that Christianity is a "copycat" myth.
Also, if God's messenger were to tell you something, wouldn't that be the same thing as God telling the same thing? The thing is that there is a lot of evidence that the Bible is from God including hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, martyr and eyewitness testimonies, archeology, history, and more.
@ggcage "God" is a man-made image.....and images can't "speak". Myths do the speaking for the "divine", but they are still man-made.
ZG shows how most myths are borrowed from each other through dif't cultures, civilizations, and eras. The Jews do not believe Jesus is the "christ" and Christians don't believ Muhammed is the "second coming". I don't believe Moses spoke to a bush....well, maybe he did, but I don't believe the bush spoke back to him.
@ggcage How is it far from proving that Christianity is a copycat? Those religions actualy did exist. It was the same deity whose name changed with the time and places. But the concept remained the same. A few hundred years from now a new god will replace jesus. Times change and so does the culturs
@Blaquemajeek These religions did exist, but ZG is really stretching them to make them look like they are all different versions of the same thing. For example, Horus wasn't executed, let alone crucified. Crucifixion as a means of execution didn't even exist at the time ZG tells that Horus was worshiped. The thing is that ZG is full of lies and half truths, and if you research these mythologies in independent, scholarly sources without agendas, you will see what I'm saying.
@ggcage Well I have to disagree with you there also. As a young girl I started studying ancient Egypt. And it was very clear to me than that alot of their religious concepts were the same as christianity yet it was a few thousand years older. And when I asked the church about it I was told that it wasn't true yet the evidence was right there in my face that it was. But I guess it really depends on who you WANT to believe.
@Blaquemajeek It doesn't really depend on what one wants to believe. Disbelieving in gravity doesn't change the laws of nature. One's belief may change one's perception of reality, but it doesn't change the reality that we all need Jesus to go to heaven.
Also, what exactly were some of these concepts that were in Egyptian mythology as well as Christianity?
@ggcage But see that's the thing. Gravity is proven by science with the Physical evidence to back it up. So it would make sense to believe it is true. What physical evidence does christianity have? The Bible? The bible is full of flaws, it contradicts itself, It's misinterped. Books were taking out of it. Besides what physical evidence do we have that says these are the actual words of god? None. GIVE ME THE PROOF this is real and I"ll have reason to believe.
I see. What you have to realize is that God is a conscious entity and not just some force like gravity. If you truly seek God youll find God, but if you look only for what you want to find, then thats all you'll find.
Anyways, there's quite a bit of evidence of God. That's kind of what my channel is devoted to. There are the cosmological and transcendental arguments, as well as historical accounts and the testimonies of those who saw Jesus first hand and were willing to die for the gospel.
@Blaquemajeek Another big one is prophecy. The Bible is the only holy book to have true fulfilled prophecy that has been shown to have been written beforehand through archeology. For example, many aspects of Jesus' life, like His sacrifice for mankind and His virgin birth, were written down centuries before His birth. There are a couple of links in my channel description on prophecy, one of which lists 300 prophecies on Jesus.
Zeitgeist isn't perfectly factual - but I don't know any documentary film or book that is........except Almanacs + Encyclopedias + Atlases (though even they are subject to change from year to year).
Peter Joseph on many occasions lauds most of Jesus's teachings, as do I. I don't avoid "him" - I study the Bible a lot. I also study what Buddha + Krishna taught. The word "Christ" is etymologically connected to the word "Krishna/Chrisna". Check it out. Would you worship ME for the same reasons?
Keeping in mind that the gospels also never set Dec. 25th as Jesus' date of birth and said that MAGI from the east came to worship, not kings. (Those are merely Catholic tradition. Did these guys even read it?)
Zeitgeist fraud about Jesus and Christianity. They show unrealistic data and correlation. Anybody who is interested in the topic can Google "Jesus & Horus Parallels - A Christian Response" Here you'll find how many stupid thing do they say in the movie!!!
lomidzeanarocketmail 2 weeks ago
In Spanish it is still "Los Tres Reyes Magos", or loosely translated: The Three Magi Kings. A good read on the term used for the 3 wise men/kings/magi is found by doing a Wikipedia search for "Biblical Magi".
marlene1374 1 month ago
Did you make any adjustments for the times the calendar has actually been changed since "those days"?
marlene1374 1 month ago
Part II: You also mention the sky in Greece & Rome during the time of Jesus - what does that have to do with anything? The Roman bible known today was created centuries after the assumed death of Jesus. Not to mention the original writings (most of which were burned) which show an extremely different picture of Jesus, his disciples and Christianity as a whole. Yet, those writings also (the ones found so far at least) were, again, written much after Jesus' assumed death.
andrewa312 3 months ago
@andrewa312 First Gospel found: Thomas, 49 AD. Jewish Talmud: Developed during Chris's LIFETIME.
ganondorf59 2 months ago
Part I: While you make great facts, I must say that you are misleading just as Zeitgeist, especially when it comes to Astronomy & images of the sky at certain times & locations. Who said that Jesus was born in or next to Jerusalem? (Bethlehem of the Galilee is most likely the place, assuming Jesus ever existed). Who said that the story of Jesus was written during his life time or even close to it? You also seem to assume that the bible was never edited, which is now a historical fact.
andrewa312 3 months ago
@andrewa312
Part I
The NT was written in the first century. The First Epistle of Clement was an early church document known to have been written around AD 96. It makes references to several NT books and Jesus' divinity. Also, the apostles died for their witness of Jesus. They would've known whether or not they ate with and touched Jesus after He was crucified and resurrected, and they willingly gave their lives. Either Jesus really is the Son of God, or the apostles willingly died for a lie.
ggcage 2 months ago
@ggcage u did not disprove zietgiest in this at all. nice try
worldbookkm 2 months ago
@andrewa312
Part II
There is YouTube channel owned by William Lane Craig called "DrCraigVideos". He has some really good stuff on NT scholarship. However, even if the Bible was edited, that doesn't falsify Christianity. Christianity is true if Jesus really did resurrect, regardless of the Bible's inerrancy. As I mentioned before, the apostles died for their witness of the resurrection. Dr. Craig also has some very good stuff on the resurrection as well. I highly recommend you look at it.
ggcage 2 months ago
@andrewa312 Actuallyy, Jesus was of Nazareth, he was most likely born there to a standard family of carpenters, let's not forget he had siblings after him. The Belehem issue is surey a huge chinese story (that means it's a huge thing and story, but ultimately ridiculous and false), just like the "Moses abandoned in the river" story. Fact is, Jesus was one of the most amazing men to have ever lived.
ganondorf59 2 months ago
One thing is really irritating here..you say the bible / christianity never mentioned 3 kings? surprises me you never heard of the 3 kings?
anyway, it is funny as always. there is one side claiming something like Zeitgeist, starting a movement. then there is the other side starting also a movement claiming against those people like Zeitgeist, trying to reveal lies.
The end of the story. I DO NOT BELIEVE ONE OF YOU, cause every sentence said contains a bit of the truth,no matter from which side
TheKoolic 4 months ago
@TheKoolic
1) the Bible simply doesnt mention 3 kings. "Three Kings" come from the popular Christmas song, not the 4 gospel accounts. The phrase used in the Bible was magi, or "wise men", not kings, there's a difference. So obviously, we have heard of the 3 kings, but the Bible says they were magi.
2) The Bible doesn't say that there were 3 magi, only that there were 3 gifts. It doesn't say how many magi were there. Be careful not to read traditions into the text.
payn3a91 3 months ago
@TheKoolic Have you read the Bible? If not, then it's clear you're an ignorant. NEVER in the Bible are "Three Kings" mentioned. Only "Magi came and gave three presents" is of the Bible. Not even the number of Magi is stated. Magi were Zoroastrian priests, never in hell could someone suppose they were Orion's 3 King Stars! I'm a srious religious scholar, and not some amateur idiot, I immediately denounced Zeitgeist as a HUGE lie, filled with LIES and ERRORS all over, it's useless and worthless.
ganondorf59 2 months ago
@ganondorf59
Have you ever read another book than the bible? If not, you are even more ignorant but moreover arrogant! peace
TheKoolic 2 months ago
@ganondorf59 Have you ever read another book than the bible? If not you are even more ignorant but moreover arrogant towards life! Think about it, seriously!
TheKoolic 2 months ago
@TheKoolic As a matter of fact, my librairy currently houses 1279 read books. Among these, 23 are religious "holy" books. I'm a scholar, are you? No. You are the ignorant fool here.
ganondorf59 2 months ago
You know, it doesn't matter what the author of this video believes. So far he seems to have his facts straight. The important lesson I'm taking away from this series is that the first film in the Zeitgeist trilogy was founded on blatant lies. I'm an atheist and I care about truth. If this is how Zeitgeist sold their movement then fuck them, they are untrustworthy.
OutlawGrrl 9 months ago 17
@OutlawGrrl It's important to remember that the first Zeitgeist "film" wasn't a documentary; it was the artistic expression of Peter Joseph. He has been very clear about that.
marlene1374 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@OutlawGrrl Read the Sourcebook to learn that all the claims in Zeitgeist part 1 are backed up by highly credible scholarship:
The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010) Transcript
stellarhousepublishing. com /zeitgeistsourcebook. pdf
Here's another good one:
Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
truthbeknown. com /chrisforbeszeitgeist. html
Hercules2345 2 weeks ago
@OutlawGrrl At least your willing to search for the truth!
Mcgif21 1 week ago
Thank you for using actually Astronomy instead of misleading generalizations.
Raynelm 10 months ago 9
LOL you would disable rating for this video because you know people would tear your video apart.
industries182 11 months ago
Your a religous Doochebag that wastes, space and energy on a bunch religous debate when you should be talking about how to make sollutions that are suggested by the Zeitgeist movement other than complaining about how it called your a religion or whatever you call it fake you dumb ass lets all come together and make one union so we can stop using "religion" as tool for war and melesting hundreds of thousands of children!!
P.S. OPEN YOUR MIND SHEEPLE!!!!!!!!!!!
jgroves56 1 year ago 2
@jgroves56 I see. Religion has been used as a tool. However, people twist perfectly good causes for their own selfish interests all the time. It isn't limited to religion and it doesn't change the original cause. You can judge Christianity by sinful men who may or may not actually be saved, or you can judge it by Christ, who was willing to die for a sinful world. Christ's sacrifice is the most precious gift ever, and it would be a great tragedy if it were wasted.
ggcage 1 year ago
@ggcage You are a good example of how we are brainwashed from a early age with this religious nonsense.You are proof of a corrupt system,when you reinforce your opposition to such causes with religious lies, that you are fully aware of.I think as human beings, we need to do things that are right and just for all.Not just do things because of the false traditions and beliefs we have been taught.
religionisharmful 8 months ago
@religionisharmful I see, but let me ask you this. What do you believe is right and wrong? Don't you primarily believe that because of how you were raised and that's what the culture says is right and wrong? Is that not a belief/ tradition? I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody is capable of thinking in a cultural vacuum. Religion is not harmful, as long as it is not twisted for selfish purposes. Traditions and beliefs are not harmful so long as they do not violate reason.
ggcage 8 months ago
@ggcage That may be true. A fully objective mind should not take this as a question about if religions should exist or not. It is just about seeing where it came from and having a scientific approach to different historical facts. I understand that some things in Zeitgeist may not be true but you cannot say that your belief is 100 % untouched by myth either, whether they be pre or post Jesus Christ. This issue may never be resolved but I do appreciate the importance you give to reason. Not Done!
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@ggcage Furthermore, I believe that it is difficult to believe in such stories (not saying their fiction) when historical evidence is so scarce. I think I speak for most of us unbiased intellectuals when I say, I hope that we do not offend anyone when we question religion. I (we ?) would be more than happy to convert to any religion, we just need rational and unbiased proof. Let God or Jesus or whatever show us they exist and we shall follow. What tells you the world isn't simply an illusion? :)
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@Farshid2236 I see. But let me ask you this. What exactly would you consider as convincing evidence of a particular religion? What would you expect from a religion that is true?
ggcage 5 months ago
@ggcage Well, convincing evidence of a particuliar religion would be the backing of conventionally accepted historians that are contemporary to the time of an event/person that the religion claims to have existed. Second, I expect everything from a religion to be true for if a religion tells us only part of the truth and lies to us, whether big or small, no objective and logical person could ever have total faith in that religion without being brainwashed. I thus don't believe in religions.
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@Farshid2236 I presume that you mean that there are no contemporary historians who say anything of Jesus' miracles. What you have to realize is this wasn't the information age. If it wasn't for the apostles, the miracles of Jesus probably wouldn't have spread beyond the villages they occurred in. However, the apostles willingly died for their testimony of Christ's resurrection. The rapid expansion of Christianity in the 1st century is evidence of this. There can be no greater testimony.
ggcage 5 months ago
@ggcage I am sorry dear believer but it not being the information age just is not scientifically or historically plausible. Older testimonies of other great men and civilizations exist. Additionally, you claim that the apostles willingness to die for Jesus. I and many others can today be executed by an authority for preaching the existence of The Flying Spaghetti Monster (for example), would you then believe me ? And if you didn't but a whole continent did, would that be irrefutable proof ?
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@Farshid2236
Part 1 of 3
Yes, but many of those people were of great political power, hence were the focus of the historians at the time. Besides, there is nonbiblical historical evidence of Jesus. The following videos show some of this evidence...
watch?v=NxiddSTtKpA
watch?v=-LdHQtPprTk
ggcage 5 months ago
@Farshid2236
Part 2 of 3
First of all, nobody has ever been executed for their beliefs of FSM, and nobody ever will. But, even if people seriously believed in FSM, and were willing to die for that belief, all that would prove is that they really did believe in FSM. Since none of them had ever actually *seen* FSM, they can't be compared to the apostles who died for their first hand witness of Jesus.
ggcage 5 months ago
@Farshid2236
Part 3 of 3
The apostles died for their claim that they had witnessed the resurrection of Jesus. Now, either they really did witness the resurrection of Jesus or they did not. If they didn't then they would have known that they didn't, which means that they would have been going out, risking their lives over and over again, without any hope of getting worldly gain out of it, all for nothing. They would have purposefully gotten themselves killed for no apparent reason.
ggcage 5 months ago
@ggcage You cannot know that none of them has actually never *seen* the FSM just as we cannot know that he apostles have ever *seen* Jesus or his resurrection. The fact of the matter is that your evidence that Jesus existed are testimonies from a group of people justified only by their claims. People have died for their beliefs many times for no apparent reason (Heaven's Gate, Order of the Solar Temple, Peoples Temple, etc...) yet we consider their belief as a cult or a sect, not for Christendom
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@Farshid2236
Part I
There is a big difference between those martyrs and the apostles. Every other martyr dies for what they were taught. Heaven's Gate and those others died for what they were taught. The apostles died for what they saw. It's primary vs secondary evidence.
ggcage 4 months ago
@Farshid2236
Part II
I see, but Lee Strobel's video does show that Christianity wasn't given myth-like properties over time. It would have had to change quickly which is very unlikely because early Christians held strongly to their beliefs and they would have noticed a change in doctrine as being false doctrine. Also, why do you consider everything in the Bible, including its history, as untrustworthy? You can't just throw out the entire Bible. After all, it does contain a lot of prophecy.
ggcage 4 months ago
@ggcage I'm sorry, I may be missing something here, when have I said to throw out the Bible ? I never contradicted the chronology or timing of the events in the Bible, I just question their authenticity. You made a very good point about the martyrs and the apostles being different but you cannot deny there have been primary evidence martyrs of non-Christian belief in history. Also, I don't understand why the Bible containing prophecy makes it untouchable.
Farshid36 4 months ago
@Farshid36
Part
I'm sorry. I may have misunderstood you. I see what you mean by the non-Christian martyrs, but the apostles died for a solely religious purpose. Another example of primary martyrs are the early Muslim martyrs. But what you have to realize is that Muhammad and a lot of his close followers gained a lot of political power. They didn't die only for a religious cause, where the apostles had no hope of worldly gain, so the apostles are still set apart from other martyrs.
ggcage 4 months ago
@Farshid36
Part II
What's so significant about prophecy is that only God can predict the future with accuracy. If the Bible contains prophecy then it must be God's word. Some may argue that the Bible may have originally been God's word, but has been corrupted. But what you have to realize is that God is capable of preserving His word. The Jews were meticulous scribes, they would not have dared change God's word and God would not have let them fail in preserving His word.
ggcage 4 months ago
@ggcage In your first video Mr. Strobel uses biblical sources which completely refute his entire argumentation and is therefore unacceptable in a fully objective, historical way. In your second video, which uses non-biblical sources, something I greatly appreciate, none of the historians cited lived at Jesus' time to give a direct first-hand testimony of his existence. Additionally, the number of parallels between Christ and other prophets can only make us doubt the authenticity of Jesus' life.
Farshid2236 5 months ago
@ggcage Do you believe in Medicine? If you do, then you cannot be a believer in Christ, in my opinion. Physicians use their knowledge to assess a particular ilness, and treat it using physical things (let's say, open-heart surgery, chemotherapy). Jesus healed the wounded with faith, something we can't even grasp with our senses. Of course, when we tell this to a Christian, his brain will have to choose between taking my idea, or his current thought. And dissonance cannot be mantained.
efusiongaming 5 months ago
@efusiongaming I see, but let me ask you this. When you are really sick and you go to have surgery, don't you have faith that the doctor who is going to cut you open has the skills to do heal you and not get you killed?
I guess what I'm saying is this. Faith is more than just blind belief. If that's faith then why did Jesus perform miracles? Faith is trusting. Just like you trust the surgeon to do his job, you trust Jesus Christ to save you from the punishment of sin, and from sin itself.
ggcage 5 months ago
@ggcage I don't have faith because it's a matter of common sense. Of course there isn't a SINGLE thing in the Universe that is completely taken as granted, and science is based on that particular fact, not telling the truth but getting 10 steps closer to it at every time. We all need a sort of "faith", obviously! Faith that gravity isn't changing in the next 10 seconds. Faith that not one of the 10000 gamma rays that hit Earth each day don't obliterate us.
efusiongaming 5 months ago
@ggcage So basically, it a sort of belief but it isn't a blind one so it isn't faith. I don't need to have faith in a doctor because the fact that he's there proves to a certain degree that he was smart enough to go through medschool. The only thing backing up your theory is a book that is ages old, reporting a man that healed the sick, etc... I can't assess the veracity of things that do not exist so it's impossible for me to even say i believe in Christ because it's physically impossible.
efusiongaming 5 months ago
@ggcage It's a hard deal, believing in Christ. Choosing to reject a source of relative truth from empirical evidence, that has explained and dealed with many problems in this world (Science) or accept that God made this all up.
I'm sorry there are lots of retards out here that will just bash religion in nonsensical ways, not even opening the possibility to discuss this. Also, I enjoyed the video thoroughly. Zeitgeist is a skeptic's heaven until you look at the fine lines.
efusiongaming 5 months ago
@efusiongaming Thank you for your kind words. That was actually part of my point. God does not want us to have blind faith, but He wants us to trust in His Son, Jesus. Biblical faith is trust. If God had wanted us to have blind faith then why did He give us hundreds of prophecies? Why did He make His attributes known through creation? and why did He give us the eyewitness testimonies of the apostles, who willingly died for their first hand witness of Christ, without any worldly gain?
ggcage 5 months ago
didnt the years, 2000 years ago, have only 10 months or at least an other amount of months a year? which is why this alignment of the star thing happens more prominently in one of our earlier months than what we know as december? its what my history teacher kept telling. just throwing it out there...
DjDafader 1 year ago
@DjDafader The thing is that things like the winter solstice and the seasonal cycle repeat every 365.25 years. Most ancient cultures recognized this with some degree of accuracy. While they may have broke the year down into months differently, each culture would have still had roughly 365 days in their year.
ggcage 1 year ago
So you make a video,telling people not to believe what ZeitGeist says(which is an Internet based movie)but then tell me I should google it?
ImmaShaman 1 year ago
Truth = if I hit you with a hammer, it WILL hurt. = Fact
Religion = You believe I won't hit you with a hammer = Faith
Religious fundys of ALL faiths, stop spouting your religion as "The Truth". You have no more idea what the truth is, than an atheist, a shaman or a pope does.
sheavepin 1 year ago
It doesn't state that all 4 stars are STILL IN THE SKY at sunrise. It uses VISUALS to help the viewer understand.
The story is an astronomically based myth - deal with it. Your video shows exactly what Matthew 2 explains.
Bethlehem = "House of Bread" in Hebrew.
Virgo (m) is also the House of Bread.
Virgin Mary bore the body of "Christ" (bread).
You don't have to be a rocket scientist.
Also, the sun does "die" for 3 days after the soltice. Christianity has spread the myth of X-mas!
YnoT0207 1 year ago
@YnoT0207 The Sun doesn't "die" for 3 days anymore than it "dies" for 1 day, or 5 days, or relatively short amount of time. Also, "Sun" and "Son" were not the same in the ancient languages that the Bible was written in. There is no evidence that Christianity was a copycat myth. ZG is just connecting dots that it wishes to so it can come up with a way to disprove and avoid Jesus. My question is, why would you want to avoid someone who was willing die on a cross for your eternal salvation?
ggcage 1 year ago
HERE'S THIS YEAR'S SUN ALTITUDE PROJECTION FOR JERUSALEM (4 days after Winter Solstice):
Dec 23, 2010 6:36 AM 4:40 PM 10h 04m 25s + 02s 11:38 AM 34.8°
Dec 24, 2010 6:36 AM 4:41 PM 10h 04m 30s + 05s 11:39 AM 34.8°
Dec 25, 2010 6:37 AM 4:41 PM 10h 04m 39s + 08s 11:39 AM 34.8°
IT HAS NOW RISEN: Dec 26, 2010 6:37 AM 4:42 PM 10h 04m 50s + 11s 11:40 AM 34.9°
YnoT0207 1 year ago
Your supposed to worship what "god" has written on your heart - not his messenger. The Bible is a collection of stories + myths. I won't call it completely fictional because, like any good book, it mixes in current-day wars, lifestyles, politics, etc...
YnoT0207 1 year ago
That's true, but ZG is still far, far short of proving that Christianity is a "copycat" myth.
Also, if God's messenger were to tell you something, wouldn't that be the same thing as God telling the same thing? The thing is that there is a lot of evidence that the Bible is from God including hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, martyr and eyewitness testimonies, archeology, history, and more.
ggcage 1 year ago
@ggcage "God" is a man-made image.....and images can't "speak". Myths do the speaking for the "divine", but they are still man-made.
ZG shows how most myths are borrowed from each other through dif't cultures, civilizations, and eras. The Jews do not believe Jesus is the "christ" and Christians don't believ Muhammed is the "second coming". I don't believe Moses spoke to a bush....well, maybe he did, but I don't believe the bush spoke back to him.
YnoT0207 1 year ago
@ggcage How is it far from proving that Christianity is a copycat? Those religions actualy did exist. It was the same deity whose name changed with the time and places. But the concept remained the same. A few hundred years from now a new god will replace jesus. Times change and so does the culturs
Blaquemajeek 1 year ago
@Blaquemajeek These religions did exist, but ZG is really stretching them to make them look like they are all different versions of the same thing. For example, Horus wasn't executed, let alone crucified. Crucifixion as a means of execution didn't even exist at the time ZG tells that Horus was worshiped. The thing is that ZG is full of lies and half truths, and if you research these mythologies in independent, scholarly sources without agendas, you will see what I'm saying.
ggcage 1 year ago
@ggcage Well I have to disagree with you there also. As a young girl I started studying ancient Egypt. And it was very clear to me than that alot of their religious concepts were the same as christianity yet it was a few thousand years older. And when I asked the church about it I was told that it wasn't true yet the evidence was right there in my face that it was. But I guess it really depends on who you WANT to believe.
Blaquemajeek 1 year ago
@Blaquemajeek It doesn't really depend on what one wants to believe. Disbelieving in gravity doesn't change the laws of nature. One's belief may change one's perception of reality, but it doesn't change the reality that we all need Jesus to go to heaven.
Also, what exactly were some of these concepts that were in Egyptian mythology as well as Christianity?
ggcage 1 year ago
@ggcage But see that's the thing. Gravity is proven by science with the Physical evidence to back it up. So it would make sense to believe it is true. What physical evidence does christianity have? The Bible? The bible is full of flaws, it contradicts itself, It's misinterped. Books were taking out of it. Besides what physical evidence do we have that says these are the actual words of god? None. GIVE ME THE PROOF this is real and I"ll have reason to believe.
Blaquemajeek 1 year ago
I see. What you have to realize is that God is a conscious entity and not just some force like gravity. If you truly seek God youll find God, but if you look only for what you want to find, then thats all you'll find.
Anyways, there's quite a bit of evidence of God. That's kind of what my channel is devoted to. There are the cosmological and transcendental arguments, as well as historical accounts and the testimonies of those who saw Jesus first hand and were willing to die for the gospel.
ggcage 1 year ago
@Blaquemajeek Another big one is prophecy. The Bible is the only holy book to have true fulfilled prophecy that has been shown to have been written beforehand through archeology. For example, many aspects of Jesus' life, like His sacrifice for mankind and His virgin birth, were written down centuries before His birth. There are a couple of links in my channel description on prophecy, one of which lists 300 prophecies on Jesus.
ggcage 1 year ago
@ggcage What 100s of fullfilled prophecies are you talking about?I'd love to know that one
ImmaShaman 1 year ago
@ImmaShaman If you look up "300 Messianic Prophecies Jesus" on Google, the first hit is a list of prophecies on Jesus.
Also, there is a site called "100prophecies(dot)org" that has 100 prophecies, most of which do not pertain to Jesus.
ggcage 1 year ago
Zeitgeist isn't perfectly factual - but I don't know any documentary film or book that is........except Almanacs + Encyclopedias + Atlases (though even they are subject to change from year to year).
Peter Joseph on many occasions lauds most of Jesus's teachings, as do I. I don't avoid "him" - I study the Bible a lot. I also study what Buddha + Krishna taught. The word "Christ" is etymologically connected to the word "Krishna/Chrisna". Check it out. Would you worship ME for the same reasons?
YnoT0207 1 year ago
It's also interesting to note that not all Magi were men. There may very well have been a woman.
TheBeardOfPower 2 years ago
Keeping in mind that the gospels also never set Dec. 25th as Jesus' date of birth and said that MAGI from the east came to worship, not kings. (Those are merely Catholic tradition. Did these guys even read it?)
TheBeardOfPower 2 years ago
zeitgeist false or fact LOL
It is all false
evangelion243 2 years ago
Religions are a collection of stories, visions, and myths. They are not facts, either.
YnoT0207 1 year ago
@YnoT0207 Why exactly do you believe that all religions is false?
ggcage 1 year ago