Christopher Hitchens on "the creation" and emerging squeeky mammals

[lacontrabasse]

The Creator of the Universe does not ask for love, or fear; only forgiveness and understanding.

The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.

The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.

See ' God says sorry. '

[Steeeeevenn]

Logic and facts have no room in religion

[breaneainn]

If only god could spare such few words for such peace of mind.

[natmanprime]

hold on, love is NOT letting folk have their way

it's simply recognizing the truth in someone, and their pain, and therefore judging and acting in sobriety rather than deluded anger

love is, among other things (i'm not an EXPERT), a connection.

love your neighbour is not a piece of advice, it's a COMMAND

that means you take the time to see the truth in them

and not just give in to insanity

[veelee00]

oh and that was @dpowens ....and others too. and dpowens..... I don't have a clever pardon or phrase or excuse because I definitely don't know the answer to that.

[veelee00]

It amuses me the time people have on their hands to read posts that go back a couple years. That's ALOT of time. Because I don't believe in evolution I have been trashed several times....Real mature people. When you can discuss differences in beliefs like grown ups get back to me...

[paddymourinho]

The enemy is within, not without. Hitchens lacks esoteric understanding of religious teachings.

[dpowens]

@paddymourinho Hahahahaha.

[paddymourinho]

@dpowens intelligent contribution.

[dpowens]

@paddymourinho Thanks, I take the Internet and Youtube VERY seriously, as I see you do.

[bonnie43uk]

an excellent speech.

[veelee00]

to jgov430- whatever. you don't know me. this is public forum for people to share opinions.....that's it. i shared my opinion. how is that pushing my beliefs on someone? you don't agree. fine. cool. you don't have to. i don't care. i just find it amusing that you think posting a comment on a youtube video is pushing my beliefs on someone.....you can think what you want. if you knew me you would see you are wrong.

[mrnewball]

A quick comment about our galaxy hurtling towards destruction and this somehow being proof that there's no god. I think it's true that we are all made from star dust and are a result of "destruction". I don't quite see his argument - does he suggest that for there to be a god that nothing nasty can happen ? I'm open to there being a god or not - god is a word a concept,nothing more. In order to deny something exists you'd have to able to define it -

[mrnewball]

You need to apply common sense in regard to loving your enemy and remember the cultural context. However,many people have shown compassion to their enemies and this compassion which intends to look beyond their emenies conditioning has been very effective in creating peace. War should be seen as a last option whenever possible. Hitchens talks of war & fighting and to my mind this won't help.

[TheBlackSheep2134]

What does it say about the tenability of a claim when you have to argue for your right to believe it instead of it's validity......

[John1576able]

@Ray38. Unfortunately, you are like so many atheists. We look at a Roman Statue and don't say 'that statue is 2 million years old because the stone is 2 million years old'. That God brought the Earth into the modern Solar System from some other place seems reasonable. That He shaped it's present form with Man in mind seems reasonable. The Bible does not say the Earth is 5 or 6 thousand years old. Frankly the actual origins of the Solar System is a mystery to Science.

[ytbabbler]

@John1576able "That He shaped it's present form with Man in mind seems reasonable."

Very, and of course God is the best.

Try google earth and search for Papeete just as an example , zoom out until you see the whole earth, then you can start to think if not you (a simple human) could come up with a better design for human life.

Then you can continue to look around.

The biggest mystery for me is how peoples still hold on to bronze age fables.

[GeauxTiger]

Did Dinesh actually, at a previous point, suggest Jupiter was put there to catch meteors by God to protect Earth? Ok...I guess that would be one way.

Or, and I'm just spitballing here...maybe God could have simply not placed any meteors out there roaming around from which the Earth would need to be protected? Seems the simpler of the two solutions. But the Jupiter vacuum is nice as well...

[Bellantoni]

"refer it upwards to the unseen celestial court"

"hitherto small squeaking frightened mammals that had been under their hoofs"

"taking of our own tiny little suburb of this magnificent cosmological city, our negligible little suburb- just our solar system"

"if you want to reward these responsibilities to your god or to your religion than I'm entitled I think to wish you joy of it. Thank you"

[veelee00]

I am sorry that I have seemed to offend so many by simply believing in a creator. Do I believe sorts of evolution are a part of creation and life? of course i do. But I think everything we see in creation from the flowers and trees, to the animal kingdom and humanity can't be the result of chance and accident....I believe we were all created. Everything. And the creator can use whatever means desired for bringing about that life....

[veelee00]

i will look for some of the info I have for you. I have read different science books through the years and did a research paper on creation and evolution- i don't believe in the big bang theory. and not because of my religion. there is obviously a lot we don't know. can't know. I don't know how old the earth is....honestly, I don't care if it's 10,000 years old or 10 billion years old. i don't believe we evolved from monkeys but i think evolution within a species is an obvious reality.

[waori]

@veelee00 It seems I can clear a few things up for you. The Earth is about 4.5billion years old and while we didn't evolve from monkeys, we do share a common ancestor with them.

[xavtron]

@veelee00 to believe in microevolution (which is what you described) without believing in macroevolution is a common failure in scientific understanding. Also the Big Bang theory describes the mechanism for the expansion of the universe and how it came to be in its current form, not the way that the universe started, and there is enormous amounts of evidence for it. Maybe you need to go back and read some more books

[ray38montreal]

@veelee00 1 the big bang is obvious since all matter is flying apart. Hence in the past it was closer together. Go back far enough and it' was pretty much all from a single point. This is not a question of belief. It's a verifiable fact if you take the time to inquire about it.

[ray38montreal]

@veelee00 The age of the earth is a know fact. 4,600,000,000 years old give or take. this is verifiable by the know decay of several radiometric substances.

2 we didn't evolve from monkeys. Monkeys are our cousins. We have a common ancestor. Evolution happens even now. Small changes happening over a small time scale become large over a big time scale. There is no choice in the matter.

[veelee00]

omegavalerius I will post some info for you if you want. ashleylovesdaddy- um yes you are wrong. and people do walk around this rational society every day believing whatever they want. you believe whatever you want, do you not? I am committed to my beliefs, but if there was concrete evidence to something I wouldn't deny it. but thanks for the total lack of decency and respect. nice.

[ray38montreal]

@veelee00 You're confusing the mind set of an Atheist with a religious person. A religious person will believe in something because somebody in authority says so. A priest for example. Jesus says it so that settles it. An Atheist will not take that at face value. Atheist will learn the subject , facts and then make the appropriate decision weather to accept this as truthful knowledge.

[veelee00]

I hope you don't think I am trying to throw my beliefs at you. You are completely entitled to believe how you do. I do enjoy discussing things with people who think differently. If all we ever do is talk and discuss with people who agree with us, we will never be challenged to search out what we believe, how we feel, and why.....

[Stipoon]

I got the impression from the previous post that you believe in intelligent design because it is easier to understand, easier to believe, than the "big bang" theory.

I see it all the time in christians rejecting science becuase it isn't instant comprehensible (requiring some study), and usually flies in the face of much easier explanations that requires only one sentence to sum up, like "it's a miracle!" or "God did it!".

[veelee00]

I can see how you believe that and see that, but what I love is finding the connection with creation (intelligent design) and science. It's definitely not easy to believe! I don't think either belief is easy....but I love when science and faith mix and go together. It doesn't always have to be one or the other. faith is hard, science is hard....and both require faith. because people on both sides of the issue have science to back them up.....so both require faith in different ways.

[omegavalerius]

So what connections are there between science and intelligent design creationism? And I'm also interested to know what part in science requires faith, if by faith we mean belief in the absence of evidence.

[GronTheMighty]

I think "things change" is a rather fetching catchphrase that eloquently and adequately portrays the beauty of several different sciences, besides obviously evolutionary sciences :)

[ashleylovesdaddy]

People don't have the right to walk around believing whatever they want. Not as long as you want to live in a rational society. If you make a claim about the way reality is, and have no evidence or good reason to back up your claim, you aren't entitled to respect in any degree. Would you disagree with this? By your comment above, you sound as though you're committed to your religious beliefs, no matter what evidence is shown to you. Am I wrong about that?

[jvog430]

@veelee00 if youre not trying to push youre beliefs on someone youre full of shit. thats what christianity is all about. get the biggest salesman in town aka the biggest sucker in town to sell your message. i see through youre bull shit. oh no i dont push my religion i just post on you tube comments.... lol give me a break youre the worst kind of religous person.

[veelee00]

i don't know about jupiter being there to stop things from hitting earth, but why is it easier to believe that there was a big explosion and everything just started? No purpose, no rhyme or reason....That seems harder to believe than intellegent design....

[Stipoon]

Why do you think the universe was arranged in such a way as to be compatible with your level of understanding? You think the universe was arranged with you and your comprehension in mind.

The "big bang" is settled on evidence, however counterintuitive to the fallible human brain.

[veelee00]

the intricate process of creation is definitely not compatible with my level of understanding. the vastness of the universe and the precise way things came to be is WAY beyond me! but do you look at a masterpiece in a museum, a work of art by a gifted artist, and think "wow and that just happened? there was a bang and then here was this amazing work of art. " No. When I look around at nature, when look at my little girl,i see the work of a master creator not a random explosive accident...

[Stipoon]

I'm sorry, but you seem to have no awareness of your own fallibility. Our brain can not understand the enormity of years the universe has excisted, and the enormity of developments happening in these billions of years, especially on our planet. We can however selfcritically study this and gather evidence over time, which we have.

We can barely wrap our minds around a few houndred years, and usually think of things in one human generation, as it seems you do and all by accident.

[GaseousAnomaly001]

@veelee00 When you see a painting, and infer that there must be a painter, you are using the empirical evidence that paintings require painters. If you have never known of such a thing as either a painting or a painter, and you come across one, you would have no way of making a causal link between the two. I say that the big bang is responsible for our universe because there's empirical evidence that says as such. There is no evidence to support a claim to the contrary.

[thecoolusernameguy]

@veelee00 Have you ever taken a calculus course? I'm assuming no (don't take offense, it's just that most people haven't). Does the fact that you don't understand calc mean that a "master creater" must have given us the equations?

Take another example, gas molecules moving around in a room. The equations describing the motion of the molecules are relatively simple, but in aggregate the almost innumerable interactions are uncomputable (now at least). Does that mean it's magic?

[patrick112590]

@veelee00 Well that's certainly your right, but it is not your right to force that ridiculous belief on others or teach it in schools.

[dpowens]

@veelee00 That's just really, really sweet. You remind me of myself when I was nine. Who, in your little theory there, was responsible for creating your master creator? Or, maybe I'll phrase it this way so it better fits then answer I know is coming: what clever pardons or phrases have you come up with to excuse your master creator from having an origin?

"the vastness of the universe and the precise way things came to be is WAY beyond me!"

This is where your post should have stopped.

[LordCustos3]

@veelee00

>"random explosive accident..."

Big Bang Cosmology has nothing to do with any of those three words. You are either ignorant or straw-manning.

Also, to pre-empt the 'obvious' rebuttal, saying "the Big Bang says 'Everything' came from 'Nothing' "

No. That's Creationism.

Creationism asserts Creation Ex Nihilo at t=0. Big Bang merely states what the evidence (up to 10–43 seconds before t=0) implies.

[veelee00]

The creation of the universe is definitely beyond my level of understanding! The intricate design of nature and space and humanity, So beyond me! But when you see a masterpiece, a work of art in a museum, do you think "wow, how random. this just came to be." no, you recognize it as the work of a great artist. that is how i see creation. When I look at nature, or my children, I don't see a random accident; boom and there it was. I see the work of a master creator...

[hughjarrse]

When people like D'Souza suggest Jupiter was put there by god to stop cosmic objects hitting the earth and therefore proof of an all powerful creator has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me, an all powerful god could just decide on what hits the earth, most creationists I have spoken to tell me god controls every atom in the universe, how about a device for attracting asbestos particles away from children passing an asbestos mill?

[Dougca1985]

@hughjarrse

best comment i read today, thumbs up :)

[bradmanthethird]

i think the real question is, if god can just soak up all the asbestos i pump into children's lungs, do i really have any free will?

[robertk2007]

its not hard for atheists to own religous people. i own all people who believe in fairy tales.

[Jslegacy01]

How can someone come back from that. Hitch just owned that.

[tanfouk]

God is like an abusive boyfriend who flies into a rage if you don't trust him and show "unconditional love."

[sads404]

And should we look to God on how to love and raise our children? After all look what he did to his in the great flood myth. How many un born in that number? Makes God quite the abortionist.

[ArgueExplain]

@sads404 I don't know how familiar you are with the story preceding the flood, but it is precisely because women were having evil children that God wiped out the population. You are correct, God wanted to stop these people from having children, and basically aborted the entire world (minus Noah's family) to stop the pregnancies.

Not to mention, God seems to be closing wombs all the time in the bible. If that's not a form of birth control, I don't know what is.

[csadler]

@ArgueExplain "but it is precisely because women were having evil children that God wiped out the population. "

You know this how? Are you insane? You know gods mind? And please don't reference the bible or you can start with Exodus 21 and Numbers 31. 2 more of your imaginary gods finest moments. slavery and killing baby boys this time.

[ArgueExplain]

@csadler

No, I'm just a critical reader, which you apparently aren't. I'm not a theist by any means, but I can read a book and understand its meaning. I was supporting the point made by sads404 with some info he might not have known.

Really, the more you understand the bible, the more you understand how vile the character God is.

[coolandcalculated]

I don't mean to nitpick but you should say Yahweh not "god."

[Delinexwow]

they are all just as ludacris. no reason to single out one god, they all suck.

[Delinexwow]

@notlookingfortroubl2 because each and every god ive ever heard of, especially religious gods, are insane.

[leave12]

You do mean to nitpick, and the reason for this is because you're a fucking cunt.

[joelhowells]

@coolandcalculated Why should we say this?

[bersa888]

....abusive FATHER :-)

[pitbull103]

Hitch > Deities

[supowit]

Unfortunately, I can imagine the average dumb shit antirationalist hearing Hitchens's talk and hearing only "wah wah wahwahwahwah...."

PRAISE JESUS AND SMITE THE HERETIC!

[theendofconfusion]

Hitchens just pissed in god's face.

[megagrey]

Grab the diuretics, then.

[Lingerfoot]

Christopher Hitchens is awesome.

[yellowocean01]

@theendofconfusion why are we putting thumbs up on your idiotic ridiculous comment?? okay 49 people are extremely dumb and confused.

[noirgris0]

Whens Andromeda going to hit?

[AClRCLEOFLlGHT]

around 23,980,363, 427AD I think... but it could happen tomorrow so make sure you're always ready because no one is sure of the exact time or date. XD

[QwidgyboMan]

Just under 5 billion years I think.

[QuasiRandomViewer]

Hit in about 2.5 billion years per Wikipedia:

... the two galaxies will likely merge to form a giant elliptical galaxy. However, Andromeda's tangential velocity with respect to the Milky Way is only known to within about a factor of two, which creates uncertainty about the details of the collision. The fate of the Earth and the Solar System in the event of a collision are presently unknown, but there is a small chance that the Solar System could be ejected from the Milky Way or join Andromeda.

[illbetilbake]

next week

[saelaird]

Fantastic man

[dannytheinventor]

smackdown!

[exa0]

This is a religion that I would follow with some sceptisizm.

[8DX]

When did this take place?

[QuasiRandomViewer]

This is from the 20 April, 2009 Hitchens/D'Souza debate at Jones County Junior College in Ellisville, Mississippi. The full debate video is on YouTube -- search for "Hitchens v. D'Souza - Jones County, Mississippi", v=pIrf0khB2Bg Also see the related video (post debate interview,etc.) posted by the same user (PhilosophyF)

[MrJayintray]

He the Man