Actually gm experimented with hemi heads in the 30s if i remember right they didnt see much of an advantage then. But as higher octane fuels came along mopar seen some possibilities and they went for it. Also i remember seeing a bbc with some exp hemi heads on it a while back, maybe someone else has seen it.
olds was like buick which was like pontiac which was like ford. during the heyday of musclecars, if you wanted to get an olds to perform on the same level as a box stock mopar, you better be prepared to throw a ton of money at it. nobody in their right mind would be caught dead in one..unless it was riding to a baseball game with your pappy.
Interesting to see the Hemi version with the heads off at about 1:50 only to see what "appears to be" typical 2 valve relief pistons and not typical "hemi" type pistons with valve reliefs at the top and bottom. I wonder if that was just a display engine they were showing or if that really was what they used. It doesn't seem possible for the combustion chamber shape, or for the 4 valves to have clearance. Just thought it was odd is all.
so you have TONS of info on these engines, what can you tell me about the "ultra high compression" olds 425 super rocket? we have it in our 65' olds 98, and all i know is it huals ass with 470TQ and 420hp. i was 14, at the time, and floored it just because i had to go down the street and u-turn it, to put it somewhere else in the drive way, and hit 75 in 4-5 seconds. it scared the piss out of me. lol ;) oh yeah, how rare is factory 10 bolt posi in the 4 door? AC? radio? reverberator? we have it.
GM nixed a lot of Oldsmobile initiatives. They had there own version of the Corvette when that was hatched in '53. Where did this Hemi Go? Olds wanted their own pony car. And the Intrigue model at the end with the Northstar 315 Horse never made it. And insult of insults it's replaced by saturn? And how'd that work out for ya General Mommy? Oh the Volt!! As important as the Vega!!! You had an electric car the EV-1 but were to chicken to bring that around.
@silvernail6 the volt is GM's FOURTH attempt at an electric car. the past 3 have failed, and the volt is on a BAD track. i heard now GM is buying them back because the are crap, and having defects. (but for some reason no recalls?) i just thought you would find that interesting.and i saw pics of the 53' olds, it was so much nicer then the corevette, and had a proper V8.
@smithkid1996 ive heard that at some point after the crash testing, they were all of a sudden catching on fire wherever they were being kept. as for anything else, i havent heard of anything else, but i dont think they were catching on fire "as is", just if you crash it.
Many people are unaware of the role Oldsmobile played in GM performance, research and product development. It was the experimental division of GM. All you rat motor lovers probably know that Warren Johnson's big block lower end and oil system development was done at Oldsmobile and all new castings were the final result of that work. It lead to a much more reliable bottom end on the big block Chevy.
great video man! good job! that Olds Hemi still confuses me with the 4 valves per cylinder thou? i just cant get how a push rod engine can operate that many valves at once? is it one push rod per 2 valves?
This was a horrible idea from the getgo. Olds have simply horrible oiling to the bottom end.Making it even worse is the width of the mains. Most if not all stock big blocks would spin or burn rod and main bearings at very low(anything over 5k rpm)Nostalgia aside,the truth is the big olds just wasnt made to rev or race. Unless this was a totally redesigned block,the extra revs would just mean more blown bottom ends.
@bullikins Sure if stock. We cross-drill the cranks to get 180deg oiling. It's time consuming as olds nitrided the cranks at the factory.Plus timing-chain oiling tricks, with a large volume oil pump and a good set of alum heads with roller rockers and we've dragged at 6800-7200 RPM without fail. Oh yeah, we also chamfer the main and rod bearings for added slip. Been doing that for 15+yrs now and have only blown 2 engines but not due to oiling. Any engine can rev high. Time, money and machining.
@MrREDHED72 Cross drilling a crank can actually ROB the rods of oil because of a "pin wheel effect". We used to do that back in the day but we learned over the years that what you think might work doesn't always work. Olds' oil probems are more of a drain back problem through the heads. It is one of the few engins where not enough oil drains back from the heads quick enough which can starve the oil pump. Built a number of Olds race engines in my day. Check us out online at BadAssCars
@BadAssEngines That's very interesting, what you said you guys learned over time about cross-drilling crankshafts.
I'm not an engine builder. I love musclecars...and have a couple of fairly desirable ones that will be redone "one of these days".
In your opinion...and just for the recreational reading of a novice...is there anything along those same lines that you think are being discovered now and conceded as something that was thought to be a good idea but seeminly isn't, re: eng. building?
@ludwigking Some were possibly destroyed. The engines that survive circulate among collectors. See this link for a 2009 video of one of these engines. /wwwyoutubecom/watch?v=kfixsjM8V78
yea and everthing all stopped in the 70's when David pearson won 4 races in a row with a Ford 429 Semi-Hemi, after that NASCAR banned big blocks and limited the power to small blocks look it up for yourselves.. and shortly after that happened the government decided to limit emissions even more and everything got knocked down in power, like a 350 rated at 120 hp.. that kind of crap.. Ford Chevy and Dodge did a great job at influencing the motor and car, just agree to disagree!
I don't believe NASCAR rules allowed engines with 455 cid .
Richard Petty used to drive for Chrysler back in the 60s before he switched to Ford. The cars he drove for Chrysler had Hemis and the Fords had their equivalent to the Hemi. Petty said the Ford engine was superior. It could have been that Petty was just plugging Ford but the Fords did start winning most of the races until Chrysler added a wing to its cars.
The Chevrolet division of GM would not allow the other manufacturers (Oldsmobile included) to produce an engine (factory) with a higher HP & with other performance options. The Corvette was/is the “Heartbeat of America” and Chevrolet intends to keep the status. To avoid any conflicts, Oldsmobile contracted Hurst to do the honors.
Hemi is the king of all racing events. With no limitations, a Hemi outperforms conventional heads, especially super/turbo charged.
@Tallerico500 That's because those 4 cylinders are overhead cam.The biggest benefit of overhead cam is the placement of valves on opposite sides of the head so they can be bigger valves that flow better.The Hemi V8 was a design that was simply copying all the benefits of overhead cam while still leaving the camshaft in the block.Eliminating a big timing chain for v engine and camshaft oiling issues.Initially called the Chrysler double rocker the marketing dept. decided hemi for advertising
@jaydenfre2413 Just think, this was over 40 years ago they used this design. Thanks for the info.:) I sure wish my car had a 426 V8 rather than a 116 I-4. :P
i had an olds 425 in an 83 chevy step side , i used all stock parts and it went togather like a dream, more trq, than the truck knew what to do with,,,,, r.i.p my baby hot rod :(
Ah yes, Oldsmobile R&D! The go-fast guys running Chevrolet's have no idea how much the Oldsmobile Division of GM did to give them some of the hottest machines on the planet. Imagine one of these Olds engines being built using todays materials and fuel delivery systems. Reliability and 1000+ horsepower would be commonplace.
this is a great lil video. I recently came across a 1968 oldsmobile delmont 88 with a 455 inside of it. It's for sale but I'm tryin to negotiate with the owner. I'm trying to find out any and all info on the 455 and what its' capabilities are. It's a coupe also. I have heard of these cars but never saw one in person until the one that I came across. I think it's beautiful and the fact that I've never seen one in person adds to the emotion. We'll see....... TBC
Interesting Concept....I'll do my best to explain this or simplify it for people who aren't that in to cars....at 0:31 I can plainly see that's a Hemi. to explain what a "Hemi" is/means, the engine's cylinder heads have Hemispherical Shaped Combustion Chambers...& an easy way I can tell...the spark plugs are right in the cylinder heads...you can tell because of the Spark Plug Wires coming right outta the heads....
@thedeem0N Well, sort of,although plug placement has less to do with it."Hemi" is short for semi-hemispherical,as in the combustion chamber shape.The valves are splayed with a high included angle,some were 90 degrees.The pistons usually had high domes to bring compression up.By no means were hemi's only in US engines either,Jag 6 cylinders were hemi's,as well as most motorcycle engines. Honestly though,they need high octanes to work right,and wedge chambers were better for production cars.
cool video man i feel sorry for certain men and unknowledgable women who dont know what they are looking at when they see something like this i mean until recently i didnt know what a max wedge was or a 413 ramcharger or especially this motor and were they ever put into a vehicle of any kind and if so what kind the engines in the beginning of this were bad ass too with the twin turbos and supercharger what were they running them in please let me know so i can look it up and thanks again
@MeSeeUhi Why dont you try to find out about turbo-ing ur cutlass? Just an idea but it should cost that much, probably comparable in price to a supercharger.
Actually I don't see how this could be an actual hemi. I would need to see photos of the combustion chamber to be certain but I just don't see how you could still have any 'dome' to the combustion chamber once four flat-faced valves have taken up 85% of the real estate in the head. If the chamber is wedged or pented then it isn't a hemi.
the muscle fade was buring out on it's own, Then the insurance companies added to it, then pollution standards came in, then more safety standards, plus the gas shortage/emergo. by 1973 or even before the car companies had bigger things to worry about.. they couldn't put that much money and resources into muscle. Mopar had a somewhat new big block V8 ready for production in about 72 or 73. They cancelled it at the last second. Good thing they did.
these motors were to late in someways, muscle cars were on there way out, sales started falling in late 69. One reason these motors may have not been put into production is cost. How would they get there money all back in the short time the muscle cars had left? Muscle cars weren't always all that profitable to begin with.
I wonder how much money ford lost with the 429 Boss mustang? Aplenty I'm sure.
Plus as we all know what the future brought soon starting in 1971, in 1972 it really hit.
and stop pinning some badge of honor on the mopar brand, it's ridiculous.
any brand did anything they could get away with to win. All I was talking about that set all this off was the institution of new rules in stock car racing. I'm not going to battle brands with you people on the internet anymore. guess what, I have a 427 SOHC, a 426 in a superbee and a 396 camaro SS. they are all beautiful and all reliable and a nice piece of history, you should learn your history too.
when chrysler cried to nascar about ford mopping the floor with them with an engine that only took 90 days to design, the heads at nascar got tired of the bickering and put a production number limitation on the engines that could be run on the oval. The introduction of the 426 and the 427 came at different racing seasons so stop talking about the 426. the 426 was in production and on the oval, the 427 was a response to the mopar and outperformed, mopar just cried louder than ford.
Ford never cried, and they were both already at daytona.. Ford produced a hemi that would kill (and did actually produce record numbers on the daytona track) there is no "COMPETE" the 427 broke records and made the mopar hemis look like bicycles. this is proven documented fact nomatter what your ego wants to tell you.
the SOHC did humiliate chrysler, just not during a sanctioned race, and this DOHC you guys like to talk about never made it into daylight or produced documented #s
To all the guys discussing NASCAR. These OLDS engines have nothing to do with NASCAR. Olds quit nascar in 1959 after a Lee Petty photo finish victory over a T Bird. These engines were experimental engines designed for the muscle car movement and probably even luxury cars. A prehistoric Nortstar V8. GM put the axe to them due to government restrictions that later became CAFE standards.
Everytime I watch this video I marvel at the engineering and wonder WTF happened! Olds was designing and building engines that the germans have been building for maybe the last 15 years. WTF. And bob lutz, roger smith and the leeches at buick killed of Oldsmobile through either bad company policy or raiding the Oldsmobile parts bins (buick, cadillac, buick is the worst of them)
often. Chrysler boycotted the '65 season because HEMIS were ruled illegal and Chrysler had to go back to the WEDGE motors. NASCAR required motors to be "production type" and at that time HEMIS weren't... In 1966 Chrysler put detuned versions in street cars and that made them legal for NASCAR. In 1971, all HEMIS were banned by NASCAR.
@Anoint2@Anoint2 Some you guys like to twist history.. NASCAR got tired of trying to keep the racing fair. Automakers were coming out with exotic engines more often. The cubic inch limit was set at 427. So a 455 was wishful thinking.
Chrysler's 426 DOHC engine would have wiped the tracks with the W-43. And, of course, Olds engineers in true GM fashion would have cried like little bitches to the NHRA, NASCAR, etc.
omg how cool is that thing!! so is that olds hemi the same setup hemi as a mopar hemi? and is that 455 the same one that was used in the 4x4 olds drag car back in the 60s-70s??? excellent video!!!
@MrExnihilo The overhead camers that ford built did just fine! It was the wussies at GM and Chrysler that had them band from the race ways. I guys at Chevy cried like babies when the GNX moped the streets with the vettes
Chrysler didn't cry, but Ford sure sh*t their pants when they heard Chrysler was developing a 426 DOHC "Hemi" (quotation marks used because it was actually a pent-roof design and not a hemi per se) with the street version producing a redline approahing 10,000 rpm and 750 hp -a far cry over the so-his's comparatively anemic616.
@MrExnihilo Through temper tantrums and threats of a complete pull out of competition by the Chrysler boys to NASCAR, the 427 "Cammer" was good ol' boy politicked out of the running, never to turn a revolution in competition.
@papachuck63 I'm glad somebody else here is aware of the actual turn of events that changed the rules for stock car racing and how that affected engines that were allowed to race. Mrexnihilo and SSpat are all GOPAR and no common sense. god forbid you call their favorite brand a crybaby, these 2 will tie you to the swingset at recess.
We have a 427SOHC engine prepping for a 63 galaxie project. it's fresh from the 64 year never made it's way into a car. i will spend my weekends looking for mopars
@waterkeeper03 , should I also tell them about how Buddy Ingersoll was band to another class from pro stock because he kicked every-bodies butt with an Buick V6 turbo? ( It appeared to Ingersoll that his participation was always welcomed as long as he didn't run competitively.) They did the same thing with Ford's 427 SOHC I hate seeing grown ups cry!
@papachuck63 Lets not pack them full of schooling all at once, their heads might spin. they still don't seem to understand that the Cammer(amongst other engines) never competed on the track because it wasn't sold in production cars, and the reason it wasn't sold in production cars is because it never raced. had the 427 hemi been introduced a season earlier it may have been allowed to run, it definately would have won over the dodges, and2 brand names would come to mind today when you say "HEMI"
on 1,45 int port !!!!! how this is going to work at low speed !! same problem with ford camer fuel will start to drible(air will not have the speed to carry fuel).
I gotta agree with manning and barrbby, but the 455 hemi would never have made it into stock car racing, just like ford's SOHC Hemi never did.... as soon as chrysler heard the news they would have cried like baby's again.
maybe if olds and ford had both tried to bring them on at the same time, both engines would have lived to race oval tracks and go into production cars.
@waterkeeper03 Mopar didn't say anything when the 427 SOHC. Mopar had a doomsday motor ready for all takers, A925 DOHC HEMI. Nascar took one look at it and they banned all experimental motors. In 65 426 Hemi was banned too in Nascar and NHRA after it slaughtered the racing world in 64. It couldn't return till a street version was made in 66. 65 IHRA had Hillborn Injected Hemis Racing which nothing could touch. They Didn't match up really but they ran in a high class then the SOHC did says it all
we all know mopar crapped their pants when they saw the numbers the ford SOHC turned in trials on daytona. sure they had a DOHC waiting in the wings but, they knew they would never put that motor into street cars, as there was already engine production rules in place for the '64 racing season. mopar shot them selves in the foot when they complained about the ford hemi, and theygot their own engine thrown out. the mopar hemi was in production longer/more sales/back in first.
None of those motors were intented to be street motors 426 hemi, A925 DOHC HEMI, or 427 SOHC. THE only one that went to the street was the 426 HEMI, the SOHC motor never did either it wasn't reliable enough. The motor couldn't stay in tune on the track yet alone for grueling street operation. Bill France is the SOLE person who band all them motors. 426 Hemi IS the best motor. Has the records, fame and is the the only one still being used today. Nothing is as legendary as the 426 hemi.
If the Ford hemi was so unreliable how come it sold for years over the counter from ford and is still raced in top fuel?
It goes 2 different ways here. The mopar hemi only raced because it was already being put into production cars, therefore it only gained it's legacy because fords engine never beat it publicly. Fords engine never competed because it wasn't put into production cars it wasn't allowed to race, but racing and winning is what sold production cars.. catch22 killed 427
@waterkeeper03 That's a Chrysler engine/design (the "Ford" Top Fuel engines). Derived from a Keith Black/Chrysler engine. The only thing FORD on those engines are the main bearings and valve covers..
the top fuel ford 427 hemi are based off the "cammer" FORD OHV hemi, which was designed and tested by Ford in 90 days, designed from the FORD FE series 427 side oiler of the early 60's intended to go into the 64 model year galaxy to run in stock car.
If i hadn't done shit tons of research on the cammer since the day I bought mine i wouldn't be so adamate about the story. I have talked to every street/strip dragger i can find from that time period.
@waterkeeper03 I was talking about modern top fuel/funny cars, perhaps I missed your context. But that is the story from the 80's to present. Ford could not stay competitive with their engines in funny car so they went to Keith Black, so did GM in the 80's (Mercury LN7, Ford EXP, Pontiac Firebird..). Chrysler had fun with that fact in their advertising too. The modern drag racing HEMI is right from that blueprint.
I'm refrencing early 60's to 70's. the "cammer" engine i'm talking about was a 427 SOHC Hemi from ford, it went into production for the 64 model year but was only available over the counter, never installed from the factory. there was a lot of crap going on in stock cars and things changed drastically for the 64 year and my cammer wasn't allowed to run stock cars. That's what me and that tool SSpat were bantering on about...
We have a 383 super bee, a 350 camaro ss, 2 390 galaxies, a 406 galaxie and soon the 427 cammer will be in a 63 galaxy and funny how I can learn their historys and appreciate them all for the machine that they are. that tool probably drives a vw golf but he's still "GUNG HO HEMI's the best!!" he doesn't realize why most great mopars are such a rare find... they didn't sell, and they ones that did didn't last.
@DrifterB2W you might want to check your history ,,if memory serve's me correct ..i do believe the first american engine to have a HEMI HEAD WAS THE OLD FORD FLATHEAD V8 built by [zora arkus dontov ],,and i think chrysler actually studied that design head for their own hemi ..and the ford 427 [S,O,H,C] is in no way , shape, or form a chrysler hemi ..its all ford ....waterkeepr03 is 100% correct
@390merc65 WOW! Learn how to read. I was talking about the Ford and Chevy drag racing program in the 80's. They used Keith Black HEMI's. And the FORD FLAT HEAD had a FLAT HEAD, not a HEMI HEAD hence why it was called a FLAT HEAD. You could buy after market heads to convert it to a HEMI, which were British made. And Chrysler 1st used the design in AIRPLANE ENGINES in WWII.. and the hemi head has been around since 1904.. Chrysler did not copy Ford.. Ford did copy Chrysler with the 429 however
@390merc65 Your talking about the Ardun heads by ZAD made the engine OHV, rather than the valves being retained by the block, and hemi headed. They were not the first. Chrysler did not copy them and did not need too. There were plenty of other better designs to start from... like Healey and euro GP engines.. the fact is they designed and engineered theirs beyond what others did, hence why current drag engines are practically the same design.
@390merc65 And finally, that V16 aircraft hemi engine dates back to 1940.. 2500 HP liquid cooled, FAR beyond the engineering in the Ardun heads.. But it is stupid to argue which US company was first and THAT IS NOT what i was talking about in my post you replied too.. especially considering the development and use of the design in europe, especially by BMW and others.. and even they were not FIRST. Like I said it dates back to the early 1900s, in Michigan.
If anyone was ever a crybaby in NASCAR, it was ford. btw you got your facts wrong: ford complained about the Hemi which led to the engine getting banned for kicking ford's ass all over the track. Ford was getting humiliated in front of god and the world!
@MrExnihilo you just heard that from yer chevy-magazine-reading buddies. ford's 427 wedge was already kicking gm's ass since 63 AND it was ford that got called before congress around 69 at a very bad time just when the hemi-bird was winning and ford tech's where in the middle of working on their new car. it wasn't the 429hemi that was bad, it was aerodynamics at 190mph. go watch yer chevy commercials. btw it would've been neat if these hemi olds's made it to production they look exc
@waterkeeper03 Olds quit Nascar in 1959 after the photo finish of Lee Pettys Olds over a Thunderbird. Google how many Olds Nascar wins from 1949-1959 No indication these Olds engines were intended for Nascar though. Seems Olds was wanting to take musclecars and maybe luxury cars to a different dimension in the late 60s and early 70s. GM axed the program. Some sources say emissions others say GM politics and not out performing Chevy. Some say both.
in the late 60's early 70's there was alot of politics in GM making bad decisions. surely what kept Olds out of racing and from out performing their counter part. GM wouldn't even produce the Camaro with anything over 400 ci, why would they let an Olds compete...
I only bring up racing because that was the force behind performance car sales in the 50/60's. I can only speculate, as i was just a puppy in the early 80's, but had ford been alowed to run their Hemi, racing would have changed
The engines in these videos werent intended for nascar but for musclecar street wars that were cut short by early 70s emissions. Olds quit NASCAR in 1959 after the Lee Petty Olds beat that Thunderbird in a photo finish. Yes these Olds motors wouldnt have made in Nascar would they after the 1949 303 cubic inch 135 hp ancestor of these Rocket V8s were dominating NASCAR in the early 50s before anybody knew what a 1955 Hemi or 1955 small block Chevy ever was thought of
@waterkeeper03 crying? while gm and ford were fooling with sohc's, chrysler developed a dual overhead cam engine that made super big hp but when nascar said no to fords sohc chrysler scrapped the project with only two prototypes being made. face it! the chrysler hemi is the best american engine ever. thats why gm and ford have both copied it and nascar banned it. MOPAR OR NO CAR!
Shows exactly how little you really understand about the situation facing the big engines. Chrysler scrapped any mamoth thing they were working on because they knew it would never be put into a production car, which was the new requirement in stock car racing.
@waterkeeper03 FORD and GM were the biggest whiners by far and away during the engine wars. Neither could beat the HEMI.......so they just outlawed it......twice!
Gotta admit...That 455 hemi would have probably been the baddest thing on the streets. Too bad muscle cars didn't have just two extra years to evolve, I imagine Olds would have taken the market.
OLDSMOBILES would have been the top of the line manufactures if that engine went into production, we'll never know but I love the history of the would as and the couldas and of course the shoulas....
One of the reasons Olds never produced the motor was because Chevy (Boo, Hiss) lobbied against it because it made way more power than their stupid 427 'Vette motor. The thinking was that the Corvette was apparently supposed to be the "top of the line" and having an Olds faster would make Chevy look bad.
You're right, here's proof from the top of GM. This has been going on for years. I wasn't old enough to work in GM dealers when the 455 was produced, but here's a more recent story. In 86 a luxurious fully optioned Buick Regal GN would kick the dogpiss out of a Vette. A GM Engineer taught one of my classes in 1998 & said --> GM said prior to it's production "WHOA now, we can't have granny's Buick killing a vette, detune the GN". They detuned her "chip" BIGTIME & she still blew away vettes LOL!
And we all know the Buick GN despite getting 28mph HWY (because it was the only car in the world with Sequential Fuel Injection at that time) was not produced after 1987 (That Chevy pull in GM no doubt). Part of the reason is they got rid of the RWD bodystyle in 1988 and that power train woulda SHREDDED a FWD powertrain. But if you ask me - they made a RWD not available so they could use "not having a body suitable" as A FAKE EXCUSE!
So, they had GN powertrains in 88 with no cars! Pontiac borrowed'em for 1988 Transam pace cars. It was a wonderful car (Pontiac legend Jim Wangers said so too), definitely the fastest TA since the early 70s. NOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET SICK, AND I'M MAD AT "MY PONTIAC" FOR THIS! The Pontiac Engineers were supposedly reluctant for a Non Pontiac engine! As opposed to what??!!--the Chevy engines they had since 1982! So are you friggin kidding me! I'd rather have a Buick! HAD TO BE CHEVY POLITICS AGAIN!
Yep and they were going for --> cleaner emissions, less weight, better fuel economy. The Buick V6 beat the Chevy engines in the TAs bad on all 3, as well as killing it for horsepower. The emissions I've seen it on a tester, about 20 Hydrocarbons at idle on the Buick V6 to about 210 for the Chevy V8s. 225 was the limit when I was state inspector in Texas, so the Chevy's were barely passing, many would fail if the oil was old--the oil fumes from the PCV would push it over 225.
Getting rid of the last Olds short deck block was more discrimination too, because it was not the numbers. We had reports from customers of the last 4000 lb 307V8 Custom Cruisers getting 25mpg HWY with a computer controlled Q-jet carb! The Chevy fuel injected V8s would not do that. Imagine if they fuel injected the Olds V8s? Also the Olds was cleaner on emissions. If you want to talk weight, the short deck Olds V8s are only about 25 lbs more than a SB Chebby.
@pjturkey With over 550HP the ZL1 was the best option (In those days) The tire's and suspension in those years were horrible so putting one of those 455's in a car back then just would have been nothing but traction and handling problems and considering the average man's driving skills in those days would have been tragic in some cases............I would love to see one those twin turbo 455's in a corvette today!!
I think you can still get the DOHC heads for a 455, but it'll cost you $10,000 a head. I don't think GM liked the 455. I think it was better than the 454, both at 10-1 compression.
olds hemi eh? to bad it never made it into production but than again noone would be able to buy one anyway they would all be in the hands of collectors
Aw man........You know, this could have the ultimate Olds engine. IMO, all they would've had to do was tone it down a bit and make it streetable{probably could have easily made 450-500+ hp though}, find a quality transmission, and the Cutlass, or any other Olds, heck, even the 98, could have been transformed into an even better performance machine.
wow... it's hemi heaven out there. Chrysler made a variant that never saw production. I think it was called the ball screw hemi although that wording may not be correct. It looked like your garden variety 426 hemi except the spark plugs were located under the valve covers.
yup, chrysler, pontiac and oldsmobile all made all alluminum overhead cam v8 hemi's but none of them got into production, mainly was becuase they would have been to expensive... also a little known fact the first over head cam american v8 was the pontiac 421. google pontiac hemi and you should get more info on them
@MrExnihilo Garbage Oldsmobile was the first company to even come up with the idea to build a high compression engine. They also came up with the modern v-8 engine which all others are copies of. Horsepower ratings were nothing more then a joke. It was nothing more then a marketing ploy to sell cars. Studebaker didn't advertise horsepower ratings through most of there history but they made a Super Lark that would consistantly beat a Hemi. Look up Ted Harbit on utube and watch it.
Long before Olds came out with the Aurora with its DOHC V8, it seems there was the W-43. Just a complete shame and waste of technology. These engines would have thrust the American auto industry light years ahead of any nation. It may have been just enough to have kept the US auto industry living off the fat of the land even today, instead of being a welfare case.
i dont think mopar ever won, the ZL1's rule the stock drags, i definitly wish that they had designed these amazing olds motors a few years sooner so they could have seen production and wouldnt be so hard to find info and pictures of now.
Keeping this engine from production was just one of the many blunders that has led GM down the drain into becomming Government Motors. If this engine had made it into production cars it would have changed history...
i would KILL to get my hands on that Olds-hemi. but what REALLY has me drooling is the all-aluminum QUAD-CAM 455 (fuck you very much Cadillac Northstar). if i ever won the lottery i'd have one of these badasses made for my '77 Supreme.
If only that Hemi 455 was stuffed into all cutlass productions of the 70's then i bet the hype would be all about oldsmobile over the mopar hemi cars.
Imagine if that beast would have made it under the hood of a '70 W-30. The W-30 was already a bad ass street car but with that Hemi head 455 it would have been just about untouchable by most stock muscle cars roaming the streets at that time. Awesome. Post some more info on this motor when you find out more details.
Great John Beltz! Tks for post!
guerra963 1 week ago
Actually gm experimented with hemi heads in the 30s if i remember right they didnt see much of an advantage then. But as higher octane fuels came along mopar seen some possibilities and they went for it. Also i remember seeing a bbc with some exp hemi heads on it a while back, maybe someone else has seen it.
bumdodge1 2 weeks ago
Didn't Chrysler have a patent on the Hemi back then?
isukaman 2 weeks ago
olds was like buick which was like pontiac which was like ford. during the heyday of musclecars, if you wanted to get an olds to perform on the same level as a box stock mopar, you better be prepared to throw a ton of money at it. nobody in their right mind would be caught dead in one..unless it was riding to a baseball game with your pappy.
midatlanticcycle 1 month ago
wow thought I saw it all.......nope.
jeepers2655 2 months ago
Interesting to see the Hemi version with the heads off at about 1:50 only to see what "appears to be" typical 2 valve relief pistons and not typical "hemi" type pistons with valve reliefs at the top and bottom. I wonder if that was just a display engine they were showing or if that really was what they used. It doesn't seem possible for the combustion chamber shape, or for the 4 valves to have clearance. Just thought it was odd is all.
BadAssEngines 2 months ago
so you have TONS of info on these engines, what can you tell me about the "ultra high compression" olds 425 super rocket? we have it in our 65' olds 98, and all i know is it huals ass with 470TQ and 420hp. i was 14, at the time, and floored it just because i had to go down the street and u-turn it, to put it somewhere else in the drive way, and hit 75 in 4-5 seconds. it scared the piss out of me. lol ;) oh yeah, how rare is factory 10 bolt posi in the 4 door? AC? radio? reverberator? we have it.
smithkid1996 2 months ago
GM nixed a lot of Oldsmobile initiatives. They had there own version of the Corvette when that was hatched in '53. Where did this Hemi Go? Olds wanted their own pony car. And the Intrigue model at the end with the Northstar 315 Horse never made it. And insult of insults it's replaced by saturn? And how'd that work out for ya General Mommy? Oh the Volt!! As important as the Vega!!! You had an electric car the EV-1 but were to chicken to bring that around.
silvernail6 2 months ago
@silvernail6 the volt is GM's FOURTH attempt at an electric car. the past 3 have failed, and the volt is on a BAD track. i heard now GM is buying them back because the are crap, and having defects. (but for some reason no recalls?) i just thought you would find that interesting.and i saw pics of the 53' olds, it was so much nicer then the corevette, and had a proper V8.
smithkid1996 2 months ago
@smithkid1996 ive heard that at some point after the crash testing, they were all of a sudden catching on fire wherever they were being kept. as for anything else, i havent heard of anything else, but i dont think they were catching on fire "as is", just if you crash it.
GMCman82 2 months ago
Many people are unaware of the role Oldsmobile played in GM performance, research and product development. It was the experimental division of GM. All you rat motor lovers probably know that Warren Johnson's big block lower end and oil system development was done at Oldsmobile and all new castings were the final result of that work. It lead to a much more reliable bottom end on the big block Chevy.
sradie 3 months ago
great video man! good job! that Olds Hemi still confuses me with the 4 valves per cylinder thou? i just cant get how a push rod engine can operate that many valves at once? is it one push rod per 2 valves?
osvst 3 months ago
That would have been one BAD ASS engine.
Z28Racer 3 months ago
I realy miss My olds now. I had a delta 88 and it would spin the tires
for as far as You wanted to. and walk all over Camaros
JackFreeman4U 3 months ago
This was a horrible idea from the getgo. Olds have simply horrible oiling to the bottom end.Making it even worse is the width of the mains. Most if not all stock big blocks would spin or burn rod and main bearings at very low(anything over 5k rpm)Nostalgia aside,the truth is the big olds just wasnt made to rev or race. Unless this was a totally redesigned block,the extra revs would just mean more blown bottom ends.
bullikins 4 months ago
@bullikins Sure if stock. We cross-drill the cranks to get 180deg oiling. It's time consuming as olds nitrided the cranks at the factory.Plus timing-chain oiling tricks, with a large volume oil pump and a good set of alum heads with roller rockers and we've dragged at 6800-7200 RPM without fail. Oh yeah, we also chamfer the main and rod bearings for added slip. Been doing that for 15+yrs now and have only blown 2 engines but not due to oiling. Any engine can rev high. Time, money and machining.
MrREDHED72 4 months ago
@MrREDHED72 Cross drilling a crank can actually ROB the rods of oil because of a "pin wheel effect". We used to do that back in the day but we learned over the years that what you think might work doesn't always work. Olds' oil probems are more of a drain back problem through the heads. It is one of the few engins where not enough oil drains back from the heads quick enough which can starve the oil pump. Built a number of Olds race engines in my day. Check us out online at BadAssCars
BadAssEngines 2 months ago
@BadAssEngines That's very interesting, what you said you guys learned over time about cross-drilling crankshafts.
I'm not an engine builder. I love musclecars...and have a couple of fairly desirable ones that will be redone "one of these days".
In your opinion...and just for the recreational reading of a novice...is there anything along those same lines that you think are being discovered now and conceded as something that was thought to be a good idea but seeminly isn't, re: eng. building?
WickedTornado 1 month ago
It's strange.. they had the concepts.. but where did they go so wrong??
KirkTheGod 4 months ago
twin turbo nasa engine...
daNIGGRASS 4 months ago
Oldsmobile had one of the rarest all-aluminum alloy engines, with DOHC design and 4 valves per cylinder, and all that driven by gears. Astonishing.
2jzgtejza80 5 months ago
Wheres the European & Japanese engine designs?
madjimms 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@madjimms .......in the dumpster where they belong;)
zLOSTNOMOREz 4 months ago
that olds hemi must cost a miilion dollars... probably end up in jay leno's garage
loudpipesavelives69 5 months ago in playlist Liked
Since Olds is gone today, where are these engines now?
ludwigking 5 months ago
@ludwigking Some were possibly destroyed. The engines that survive circulate among collectors. See this link for a 2009 video of one of these engines. /wwwyoutubecom/watch?v=kfixsjM8V78
vistacruiser67 5 months ago
@vistacruiser67 I don't think Gm would destroy them. They usually keep them in archives or museum.
Naturalhit 5 months ago
@ludwigking ther in super Stock dirt cars
redneckstuntmen2 2 months ago
yea and everthing all stopped in the 70's when David pearson won 4 races in a row with a Ford 429 Semi-Hemi, after that NASCAR banned big blocks and limited the power to small blocks look it up for yourselves.. and shortly after that happened the government decided to limit emissions even more and everything got knocked down in power, like a 350 rated at 120 hp.. that kind of crap.. Ford Chevy and Dodge did a great job at influencing the motor and car, just agree to disagree!
amherstkidd99 5 months ago
I would have loved to see this engine in production
Z28Racer 5 months ago
I don't believe NASCAR rules allowed engines with 455 cid .
Richard Petty used to drive for Chrysler back in the 60s before he switched to Ford. The cars he drove for Chrysler had Hemis and the Fords had their equivalent to the Hemi. Petty said the Ford engine was superior. It could have been that Petty was just plugging Ford but the Fords did start winning most of the races until Chrysler added a wing to its cars.
isuckaman 6 months ago
what is the name of that song?
montey1017 7 months ago
@montey1017 Factory Girl by the Rolling Stones from the 1968 Beggars Banquet album.
vistacruiser67 6 months ago
@vistacruiser67 thanks, I knew it had a rolling stones sound to it...
montey1017 6 months ago
The Chevrolet division of GM would not allow the other manufacturers (Oldsmobile included) to produce an engine (factory) with a higher HP & with other performance options. The Corvette was/is the “Heartbeat of America” and Chevrolet intends to keep the status. To avoid any conflicts, Oldsmobile contracted Hurst to do the honors.
Hemi is the king of all racing events. With no limitations, a Hemi outperforms conventional heads, especially super/turbo charged.
cudaclan 7 months ago
@cudaclan Hemis also prove to be efficient. Hell even the little modern 4 cylinders use them.
Tallerico500 5 months ago
@Tallerico500 That's because those 4 cylinders are overhead cam.The biggest benefit of overhead cam is the placement of valves on opposite sides of the head so they can be bigger valves that flow better.The Hemi V8 was a design that was simply copying all the benefits of overhead cam while still leaving the camshaft in the block.Eliminating a big timing chain for v engine and camshaft oiling issues.Initially called the Chrysler double rocker the marketing dept. decided hemi for advertising
jaydenfre2413 5 months ago
@jaydenfre2413 Just think, this was over 40 years ago they used this design. Thanks for the info.:) I sure wish my car had a 426 V8 rather than a 116 I-4. :P
Tallerico500 5 months ago
GREAT VIDEO MEN GREAT PICS, CONGRATS
desecho88 8 months ago
What I wouldn't give to sit down and pick his brain.
xramcam 8 months ago
damn this was a aluminum block with dohc setup and hemi style heads producing 700hp or even more chevy at the same time had the 427 making 375hp
cobraopts7 8 months ago
i had an olds 425 in an 83 chevy step side , i used all stock parts and it went togather like a dream, more trq, than the truck knew what to do with,,,,, r.i.p my baby hot rod :(
rustybolt420 9 months ago
.. 2 valve engines can be hemis... 4 valves are pentroof shaped...
BuzzLOLOL 9 months ago
this video is really cool i had no idea olds had a hemi too. i thought it was only the dodge 426
mestupkid689 10 months ago
@mestupkid689 im not a huge mopar fan but there waz another hemi in the late 50's or sumthin..it waz a 300 sumthin cibic inch hemi
johnpagecontraband 10 months ago
Ah yes, Oldsmobile R&D! The go-fast guys running Chevrolet's have no idea how much the Oldsmobile Division of GM did to give them some of the hottest machines on the planet. Imagine one of these Olds engines being built using todays materials and fuel delivery systems. Reliability and 1000+ horsepower would be commonplace.
sradie 1 year ago
Zora Duntov had many Chevrolet Motors in the late 60's with Hemi Head, DOHC, etc.
On Cover of Hot Rod Magazine do not remember year. Some wild motors.
sixtiesforever1966 1 year ago
this is a great lil video. I recently came across a 1968 oldsmobile delmont 88 with a 455 inside of it. It's for sale but I'm tryin to negotiate with the owner. I'm trying to find out any and all info on the 455 and what its' capabilities are. It's a coupe also. I have heard of these cars but never saw one in person until the one that I came across. I think it's beautiful and the fact that I've never seen one in person adds to the emotion. We'll see....... TBC
funguy7979 1 year ago
Interesting Concept....I'll do my best to explain this or simplify it for people who aren't that in to cars....at 0:31 I can plainly see that's a Hemi. to explain what a "Hemi" is/means, the engine's cylinder heads have Hemispherical Shaped Combustion Chambers...& an easy way I can tell...the spark plugs are right in the cylinder heads...you can tell because of the Spark Plug Wires coming right outta the heads....
thedeem0N 1 year ago
@thedeem0N Well, sort of,although plug placement has less to do with it."Hemi" is short for semi-hemispherical,as in the combustion chamber shape.The valves are splayed with a high included angle,some were 90 degrees.The pistons usually had high domes to bring compression up.By no means were hemi's only in US engines either,Jag 6 cylinders were hemi's,as well as most motorcycle engines. Honestly though,they need high octanes to work right,and wedge chambers were better for production cars.
Oldbmwr100rs 10 months ago
cool video man i feel sorry for certain men and unknowledgable women who dont know what they are looking at when they see something like this i mean until recently i didnt know what a max wedge was or a 413 ramcharger or especially this motor and were they ever put into a vehicle of any kind and if so what kind the engines in the beginning of this were bad ass too with the twin turbos and supercharger what were they running them in please let me know so i can look it up and thanks again
danno615 1 year ago
gm all times try to copy engenering
MrCudasrt8 1 year ago
whhhhoooaaaa!!!!! the music really killed it tho.
metalmulisha6661 1 year ago
Comment removed
backyardmechanic88 1 year ago
iam a oldz fan and i wish i can put 1 of those turbo 455 i my cutlass todaybut it only a wish
MeSeeUhi 1 year ago
@MeSeeUhi Why dont you try to find out about turbo-ing ur cutlass? Just an idea but it should cost that much, probably comparable in price to a supercharger.
56oldssuper88 1 year ago
Actually I don't see how this could be an actual hemi. I would need to see photos of the combustion chamber to be certain but I just don't see how you could still have any 'dome' to the combustion chamber once four flat-faced valves have taken up 85% of the real estate in the head. If the chamber is wedged or pented then it isn't a hemi.
zapwatt 1 year ago
Was that a compound twin turbo engine under the twin turbo engine?
M3TurboE46 1 year ago
what a great video!
omarfuller 1 year ago
the muscle fade was buring out on it's own, Then the insurance companies added to it, then pollution standards came in, then more safety standards, plus the gas shortage/emergo. by 1973 or even before the car companies had bigger things to worry about.. they couldn't put that much money and resources into muscle. Mopar had a somewhat new big block V8 ready for production in about 72 or 73. They cancelled it at the last second. Good thing they did.
summitdrinker 1 year ago
these motors were to late in someways, muscle cars were on there way out, sales started falling in late 69. One reason these motors may have not been put into production is cost. How would they get there money all back in the short time the muscle cars had left? Muscle cars weren't always all that profitable to begin with.
I wonder how much money ford lost with the 429 Boss mustang? Aplenty I'm sure.
Plus as we all know what the future brought soon starting in 1971, in 1972 it really hit.
summitdrinker 1 year ago
and stop pinning some badge of honor on the mopar brand, it's ridiculous.
any brand did anything they could get away with to win. All I was talking about that set all this off was the institution of new rules in stock car racing. I'm not going to battle brands with you people on the internet anymore. guess what, I have a 427 SOHC, a 426 in a superbee and a 396 camaro SS. they are all beautiful and all reliable and a nice piece of history, you should learn your history too.
Good day.
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@cincyblows
when chrysler cried to nascar about ford mopping the floor with them with an engine that only took 90 days to design, the heads at nascar got tired of the bickering and put a production number limitation on the engines that could be run on the oval. The introduction of the 426 and the 427 came at different racing seasons so stop talking about the 426. the 426 was in production and on the oval, the 427 was a response to the mopar and outperformed, mopar just cried louder than ford.
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@cincyblows
Ford never cried, and they were both already at daytona.. Ford produced a hemi that would kill (and did actually produce record numbers on the daytona track) there is no "COMPETE" the 427 broke records and made the mopar hemis look like bicycles. this is proven documented fact nomatter what your ego wants to tell you.
the SOHC did humiliate chrysler, just not during a sanctioned race, and this DOHC you guys like to talk about never made it into daylight or produced documented #s
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03
Competition: What a great thing. Let's never let socialism in.
Samsgarden 1 year ago
To all the guys discussing NASCAR. These OLDS engines have nothing to do with NASCAR. Olds quit nascar in 1959 after a Lee Petty photo finish victory over a T Bird. These engines were experimental engines designed for the muscle car movement and probably even luxury cars. A prehistoric Nortstar V8. GM put the axe to them due to government restrictions that later became CAFE standards.
vistacruiser67 1 year ago 4
damn i thought they were gonna run, just pix though. nice pix at that!
fabiolas4 1 year ago
this guy is a fucking hero in my book.
Uunster 1 year ago
Very cool. I learned something new today
HortonKansas 1 year ago
Everytime I watch this video I marvel at the engineering and wonder WTF happened! Olds was designing and building engines that the germans have been building for maybe the last 15 years. WTF. And bob lutz, roger smith and the leeches at buick killed of Oldsmobile through either bad company policy or raiding the Oldsmobile parts bins (buick, cadillac, buick is the worst of them)
ThunderAppeal 1 year ago
often. Chrysler boycotted the '65 season because HEMIS were ruled illegal and Chrysler had to go back to the WEDGE motors. NASCAR required motors to be "production type" and at that time HEMIS weren't... In 1966 Chrysler put detuned versions in street cars and that made them legal for NASCAR. In 1971, all HEMIS were banned by NASCAR.
Anoint2 1 year ago
@Anoint2 @Anoint2 Some you guys like to twist history.. NASCAR got tired of trying to keep the racing fair. Automakers were coming out with exotic engines more often. The cubic inch limit was set at 427. So a 455 was wishful thinking.
Anoint2 1 year ago
Wonder if any schematics or detailed plans of these engines can be obtained....
circutracer150 1 year ago
Chrysler's 426 DOHC engine would have wiped the tracks with the W-43. And, of course, Olds engineers in true GM fashion would have cried like little bitches to the NHRA, NASCAR, etc.
MrExnihilo 1 year ago
omg how cool is that thing!! so is that olds hemi the same setup hemi as a mopar hemi? and is that 455 the same one that was used in the 4x4 olds drag car back in the 60s-70s??? excellent video!!!
fabiolas4 1 year ago
The Olds 4 valve hemi looks very much like Thundy Power heads available for the big block chevy.
enolastraight 1 year ago
@enolastraight make that "Thunder Power" from Valley Head Service
enolastraight 1 year ago
wow some of those were REALLY awesome!
fabiolas4 1 year ago
man inmangine if those engines if there were produced back then they would be makin a killing in auto racing
isaiah213 2 years ago
nice tribute, but terrible song
whotubeblows 2 years ago
Leave it to ford to build an engine with a six foot timing chain and then wonder why that engine would break down all the time.
MrExnihilo 2 years ago 6
@MrExnihilo The overhead camers that ford built did just fine! It was the wussies at GM and Chrysler that had them band from the race ways. I guys at Chevy cried like babies when the GNX moped the streets with the vettes
papachuck63 1 year ago
Chrysler didn't cry, but Ford sure sh*t their pants when they heard Chrysler was developing a 426 DOHC "Hemi" (quotation marks used because it was actually a pent-roof design and not a hemi per se) with the street version producing a redline approahing 10,000 rpm and 750 hp -a far cry over the so-his's comparatively anemic616.
MrExnihilo 1 year ago
@MrExnihilo Through temper tantrums and threats of a complete pull out of competition by the Chrysler boys to NASCAR, the 427 "Cammer" was good ol' boy politicked out of the running, never to turn a revolution in competition.
papachuck63 1 year ago
@papachuck63 I'm glad somebody else here is aware of the actual turn of events that changed the rules for stock car racing and how that affected engines that were allowed to race. Mrexnihilo and SSpat are all GOPAR and no common sense. god forbid you call their favorite brand a crybaby, these 2 will tie you to the swingset at recess.
We have a 427SOHC engine prepping for a 63 galaxie project. it's fresh from the 64 year never made it's way into a car. i will spend my weekends looking for mopars
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 , should I also tell them about how Buddy Ingersoll was band to another class from pro stock because he kicked every-bodies butt with an Buick V6 turbo? ( It appeared to Ingersoll that his participation was always welcomed as long as he didn't run competitively.) They did the same thing with Ford's 427 SOHC I hate seeing grown ups cry!
papachuck63 1 year ago
@papachuck63 Lets not pack them full of schooling all at once, their heads might spin. they still don't seem to understand that the Cammer(amongst other engines) never competed on the track because it wasn't sold in production cars, and the reason it wasn't sold in production cars is because it never raced. had the 427 hemi been introduced a season earlier it may have been allowed to run, it definately would have won over the dodges, and2 brand names would come to mind today when you say "HEMI"
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@MrExnihilo They hide this stuff online. Chrysler whined like little babies over Fords 427!
papachuck63 1 year ago
That is true that's why early sixties the Cubic Inch limit for NASCAR was set at 426 C.I., coincidence I think not.
Essex1929 1 year ago
@papachuck63
All I can say is 427 Cobra, anybody remember what that car could do, I rest my case.
Essex1929 1 year ago
@Essex1929 , I remember them well!
papachuck63 1 year ago
well you know where all but one of the prototype engines are right ? at the bottom of the lake first filled with concrete ...what a waste ....
towrecker 2 years ago 3
on 1,45 int port !!!!! how this is going to work at low speed !! same problem with ford camer fuel will start to drible(air will not have the speed to carry fuel).
shaikhdishgan1 2 years ago
Good old AMERICAN horse power! Those were the days!
TheRjjrjjr 2 years ago
I gotta agree with manning and barrbby, but the 455 hemi would never have made it into stock car racing, just like ford's SOHC Hemi never did.... as soon as chrysler heard the news they would have cried like baby's again.
maybe if olds and ford had both tried to bring them on at the same time, both engines would have lived to race oval tracks and go into production cars.
waterkeeper03 2 years ago
@waterkeeper03 Mopar didn't say anything when the 427 SOHC. Mopar had a doomsday motor ready for all takers, A925 DOHC HEMI. Nascar took one look at it and they banned all experimental motors. In 65 426 Hemi was banned too in Nascar and NHRA after it slaughtered the racing world in 64. It couldn't return till a street version was made in 66. 65 IHRA had Hillborn Injected Hemis Racing which nothing could touch. They Didn't match up really but they ran in a high class then the SOHC did says it all
sspat1976 2 years ago
Oops, ment Higher class then the 427 SOHC did.
sspat1976 2 years ago
we all know mopar crapped their pants when they saw the numbers the ford SOHC turned in trials on daytona. sure they had a DOHC waiting in the wings but, they knew they would never put that motor into street cars, as there was already engine production rules in place for the '64 racing season. mopar shot them selves in the foot when they complained about the ford hemi, and theygot their own engine thrown out. the mopar hemi was in production longer/more sales/back in first.
waterkeeper03 2 years ago
and ford pulled the plug when nascar hit them with a 400lb handicap if they wanted to run their hemi...
waterkeeper03 2 years ago
None of those motors were intented to be street motors 426 hemi, A925 DOHC HEMI, or 427 SOHC. THE only one that went to the street was the 426 HEMI, the SOHC motor never did either it wasn't reliable enough. The motor couldn't stay in tune on the track yet alone for grueling street operation. Bill France is the SOLE person who band all them motors. 426 Hemi IS the best motor. Has the records, fame and is the the only one still being used today. Nothing is as legendary as the 426 hemi.
sspat1976 2 years ago
@sspat1976
If the Ford hemi was so unreliable how come it sold for years over the counter from ford and is still raced in top fuel?
It goes 2 different ways here. The mopar hemi only raced because it was already being put into production cars, therefore it only gained it's legacy because fords engine never beat it publicly. Fords engine never competed because it wasn't put into production cars it wasn't allowed to race, but racing and winning is what sold production cars.. catch22 killed 427
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 That's a Chrysler engine/design (the "Ford" Top Fuel engines). Derived from a Keith Black/Chrysler engine. The only thing FORD on those engines are the main bearings and valve covers..
DrifterB2W 1 year ago
@DrifterB2W
the world is so ill informed.
the top fuel ford 427 hemi are based off the "cammer" FORD OHV hemi, which was designed and tested by Ford in 90 days, designed from the FORD FE series 427 side oiler of the early 60's intended to go into the 64 model year galaxy to run in stock car.
If i hadn't done shit tons of research on the cammer since the day I bought mine i wouldn't be so adamate about the story. I have talked to every street/strip dragger i can find from that time period.
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 I was talking about modern top fuel/funny cars, perhaps I missed your context. But that is the story from the 80's to present. Ford could not stay competitive with their engines in funny car so they went to Keith Black, so did GM in the 80's (Mercury LN7, Ford EXP, Pontiac Firebird..). Chrysler had fun with that fact in their advertising too. The modern drag racing HEMI is right from that blueprint.
DrifterB2W 1 year ago
@DrifterB2W
I'm refrencing early 60's to 70's. the "cammer" engine i'm talking about was a 427 SOHC Hemi from ford, it went into production for the 64 model year but was only available over the counter, never installed from the factory. there was a lot of crap going on in stock cars and things changed drastically for the 64 year and my cammer wasn't allowed to run stock cars. That's what me and that tool SSpat were bantering on about...
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@DrifterB2W
We have a 383 super bee, a 350 camaro ss, 2 390 galaxies, a 406 galaxie and soon the 427 cammer will be in a 63 galaxy and funny how I can learn their historys and appreciate them all for the machine that they are. that tool probably drives a vw golf but he's still "GUNG HO HEMI's the best!!" he doesn't realize why most great mopars are such a rare find... they didn't sell, and they ones that did didn't last.
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@DrifterB2W you might want to check your history ,,if memory serve's me correct ..i do believe the first american engine to have a HEMI HEAD WAS THE OLD FORD FLATHEAD V8 built by [zora arkus dontov ],,and i think chrysler actually studied that design head for their own hemi ..and the ford 427 [S,O,H,C] is in no way , shape, or form a chrysler hemi ..its all ford ....waterkeepr03 is 100% correct
390merc65 1 year ago
@390merc65 WOW! Learn how to read. I was talking about the Ford and Chevy drag racing program in the 80's. They used Keith Black HEMI's. And the FORD FLAT HEAD had a FLAT HEAD, not a HEMI HEAD hence why it was called a FLAT HEAD. You could buy after market heads to convert it to a HEMI, which were British made. And Chrysler 1st used the design in AIRPLANE ENGINES in WWII.. and the hemi head has been around since 1904.. Chrysler did not copy Ford.. Ford did copy Chrysler with the 429 however
DrifterB2W 1 year ago
@390merc65 Your talking about the Ardun heads by ZAD made the engine OHV, rather than the valves being retained by the block, and hemi headed. They were not the first. Chrysler did not copy them and did not need too. There were plenty of other better designs to start from... like Healey and euro GP engines.. the fact is they designed and engineered theirs beyond what others did, hence why current drag engines are practically the same design.
DrifterB2W 1 year ago
@390merc65 And finally, that V16 aircraft hemi engine dates back to 1940.. 2500 HP liquid cooled, FAR beyond the engineering in the Ardun heads.. But it is stupid to argue which US company was first and THAT IS NOT what i was talking about in my post you replied too.. especially considering the development and use of the design in europe, especially by BMW and others.. and even they were not FIRST. Like I said it dates back to the early 1900s, in Michigan.
DrifterB2W 1 year ago
If anyone was ever a crybaby in NASCAR, it was ford. btw you got your facts wrong: ford complained about the Hemi which led to the engine getting banned for kicking ford's ass all over the track. Ford was getting humiliated in front of god and the world!
MrExnihilo 2 years ago 3
@MrExnihilo you just heard that from yer chevy-magazine-reading buddies. ford's 427 wedge was already kicking gm's ass since 63 AND it was ford that got called before congress around 69 at a very bad time just when the hemi-bird was winning and ford tech's where in the middle of working on their new car. it wasn't the 429hemi that was bad, it was aerodynamics at 190mph. go watch yer chevy commercials. btw it would've been neat if these hemi olds's made it to production they look exc
devja71 1 year ago 2
@waterkeeper03 Olds quit Nascar in 1959 after the photo finish of Lee Pettys Olds over a Thunderbird. Google how many Olds Nascar wins from 1949-1959 No indication these Olds engines were intended for Nascar though. Seems Olds was wanting to take musclecars and maybe luxury cars to a different dimension in the late 60s and early 70s. GM axed the program. Some sources say emissions others say GM politics and not out performing Chevy. Some say both.
vistacruiser67 2 years ago
in the late 60's early 70's there was alot of politics in GM making bad decisions. surely what kept Olds out of racing and from out performing their counter part. GM wouldn't even produce the Camaro with anything over 400 ci, why would they let an Olds compete...
I only bring up racing because that was the force behind performance car sales in the 50/60's. I can only speculate, as i was just a puppy in the early 80's, but had ford been alowed to run their Hemi, racing would have changed
waterkeeper03 2 years ago
@waterkeeper03 I wouldnt of counted any of the olds motors out either though.
56oldssuper88 1 year ago
@vistacruiser67 The only thing GM should have "axed" was the government officials coming down on them for emissions regulations.
madtownmadman 8 months ago
The engines in these videos werent intended for nascar but for musclecar street wars that were cut short by early 70s emissions. Olds quit NASCAR in 1959 after the Lee Petty Olds beat that Thunderbird in a photo finish. Yes these Olds motors wouldnt have made in Nascar would they after the 1949 303 cubic inch 135 hp ancestor of these Rocket V8s were dominating NASCAR in the early 50s before anybody knew what a 1955 Hemi or 1955 small block Chevy ever was thought of
vistacruiser67 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 crying? while gm and ford were fooling with sohc's, chrysler developed a dual overhead cam engine that made super big hp but when nascar said no to fords sohc chrysler scrapped the project with only two prototypes being made. face it! the chrysler hemi is the best american engine ever. thats why gm and ford have both copied it and nascar banned it. MOPAR OR NO CAR!
bingobangledangle 1 year ago
@bingobangledangle
Shows exactly how little you really understand about the situation facing the big engines. Chrysler scrapped any mamoth thing they were working on because they knew it would never be put into a production car, which was the new requirement in stock car racing.
waterkeeper03 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 HOWEVER, unlike any of these engines, Ford's 429 SOHC Hemi did make it into a production car.
IamScott351W 1 year ago
@waterkeeper03 FORD and GM were the biggest whiners by far and away during the engine wars. Neither could beat the HEMI.......so they just outlawed it......twice!
middsteve 8 months ago
Gotta admit...That 455 hemi would have probably been the baddest thing on the streets. Too bad muscle cars didn't have just two extra years to evolve, I imagine Olds would have taken the market.
courgargold 2 years ago
Lard tundering jezussss
look at those massive intake ports towards the end of the video....holy crap they'd move alot of aIr...
sparkdog44 2 years ago
My 1st car a 68 442, great running car, this video just brought back some memories...
rnello1 2 years ago
OLDSMOBILES would have been the top of the line manufactures if that engine went into production, we'll never know but I love the history of the would as and the couldas and of course the shoulas....
Manning713 2 years ago
One of the reasons Olds never produced the motor was because Chevy (Boo, Hiss) lobbied against it because it made way more power than their stupid 427 'Vette motor. The thinking was that the Corvette was apparently supposed to be the "top of the line" and having an Olds faster would make Chevy look bad.
My Olds makes lots of Ch*vy's look bad ;-)
pjturkey 2 years ago 11
Yeah I always read Chevy supressed other GM advancements especially these motors.
vistacruiser67 2 years ago
You're right, here's proof from the top of GM. This has been going on for years. I wasn't old enough to work in GM dealers when the 455 was produced, but here's a more recent story. In 86 a luxurious fully optioned Buick Regal GN would kick the dogpiss out of a Vette. A GM Engineer taught one of my classes in 1998 & said --> GM said prior to it's production "WHOA now, we can't have granny's Buick killing a vette, detune the GN". They detuned her "chip" BIGTIME & she still blew away vettes LOL!
1967PmdGto 2 years ago
And we all know the Buick GN despite getting 28mph HWY (because it was the only car in the world with Sequential Fuel Injection at that time) was not produced after 1987 (That Chevy pull in GM no doubt). Part of the reason is they got rid of the RWD bodystyle in 1988 and that power train woulda SHREDDED a FWD powertrain. But if you ask me - they made a RWD not available so they could use "not having a body suitable" as A FAKE EXCUSE!
1967PmdGto 2 years ago
So, they had GN powertrains in 88 with no cars! Pontiac borrowed'em for 1988 Transam pace cars. It was a wonderful car (Pontiac legend Jim Wangers said so too), definitely the fastest TA since the early 70s. NOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET SICK, AND I'M MAD AT "MY PONTIAC" FOR THIS! The Pontiac Engineers were supposedly reluctant for a Non Pontiac engine! As opposed to what??!!--the Chevy engines they had since 1982! So are you friggin kidding me! I'd rather have a Buick! HAD TO BE CHEVY POLITICS AGAIN!
1967PmdGto 2 years ago 2
Yeah the Buick powered TA was a breif breath or fresh air from all those Chevy powered TAs from 82 on.
vistacruiser67 2 years ago
Yep and they were going for --> cleaner emissions, less weight, better fuel economy. The Buick V6 beat the Chevy engines in the TAs bad on all 3, as well as killing it for horsepower. The emissions I've seen it on a tester, about 20 Hydrocarbons at idle on the Buick V6 to about 210 for the Chevy V8s. 225 was the limit when I was state inspector in Texas, so the Chevy's were barely passing, many would fail if the oil was old--the oil fumes from the PCV would push it over 225.
1967PmdGto 2 years ago
Getting rid of the last Olds short deck block was more discrimination too, because it was not the numbers. We had reports from customers of the last 4000 lb 307V8 Custom Cruisers getting 25mpg HWY with a computer controlled Q-jet carb! The Chevy fuel injected V8s would not do that. Imagine if they fuel injected the Olds V8s? Also the Olds was cleaner on emissions. If you want to talk weight, the short deck Olds V8s are only about 25 lbs more than a SB Chebby.
1967PmdGto 2 years ago
Engine nazis
herbienbrian 2 years ago 3
Hial Hemi !!!!
Demiwoody 2 years ago
haha is that ever hard to do?
DJM442 2 years ago
@pjturkey 454 ls6 motor say whut?
dankebuddha 1 year ago
@pjturkey With over 550HP the ZL1 was the best option (In those days) The tire's and suspension in those years were horrible so putting one of those 455's in a car back then just would have been nothing but traction and handling problems and considering the average man's driving skills in those days would have been tragic in some cases............I would love to see one those twin turbo 455's in a corvette today!!
M3TurboE46 1 year ago
I think you can still get the DOHC heads for a 455, but it'll cost you $10,000 a head. I don't think GM liked the 455. I think it was better than the 454, both at 10-1 compression.
bobmillerbob 2 years ago
olds hemi eh? to bad it never made it into production but than again noone would be able to buy one anyway they would all be in the hands of collectors
baldwinvette77 2 years ago
very true look how rare the 426 hemi was, now your talking about an all alluminum enigne with over head cam....it would cost a shit load
humantestdummy 2 years ago
Aw man........You know, this could have the ultimate Olds engine. IMO, all they would've had to do was tone it down a bit and make it streetable{probably could have easily made 450-500+ hp though}, find a quality transmission, and the Cutlass, or any other Olds, heck, even the 98, could have been transformed into an even better performance machine.
SanFran90 2 years ago
Very cool stuff, thanks for posting!
ImForwardlook 2 years ago
I never knew of a hemi olds either. Now, I gotta scour the internet to learn more.
mrgears 2 years ago
pontiac made a hemi too
humantestdummy 2 years ago
wow... it's hemi heaven out there. Chrysler made a variant that never saw production. I think it was called the ball screw hemi although that wording may not be correct. It looked like your garden variety 426 hemi except the spark plugs were located under the valve covers.
mrgears 2 years ago
yup, chrysler, pontiac and oldsmobile all made all alluminum overhead cam v8 hemi's but none of them got into production, mainly was becuase they would have been to expensive... also a little known fact the first over head cam american v8 was the pontiac 421. google pontiac hemi and you should get more info on them
humantestdummy 2 years ago
shame it never went into production. they look like really nice engines too
Trendyrapslut 2 years ago
Mopar would have devised a way to mop up the dragstrip with the W-43.
MrExnihilo 2 years ago
@MrExnihilo Garbage Oldsmobile was the first company to even come up with the idea to build a high compression engine. They also came up with the modern v-8 engine which all others are copies of. Horsepower ratings were nothing more then a joke. It was nothing more then a marketing ploy to sell cars. Studebaker didn't advertise horsepower ratings through most of there history but they made a Super Lark that would consistantly beat a Hemi. Look up Ted Harbit on utube and watch it.
lenyo123 1 year ago
@lenyo123 1949 ROCKET V-8. OHV. EVERYBODY ELSE HAD TO CATCH UP.
vistacruiser67 1 year ago
Time to wake up. These were one off experimental engines that would never have seen the light of day outside engineering.
DONDIVA1969 2 years ago
i agree 455 w-43 was and is better than any hemi how can i build my 455 to these specs? i also own a 454 with a supercharger on my 74 corvette
dalltx 2 years ago
Long before Olds came out with the Aurora with its DOHC V8, it seems there was the W-43. Just a complete shame and waste of technology. These engines would have thrust the American auto industry light years ahead of any nation. It may have been just enough to have kept the US auto industry living off the fat of the land even today, instead of being a welfare case.
ThunderAppeal 2 years ago 2
i dont think mopar ever won, the ZL1's rule the stock drags, i definitly wish that they had designed these amazing olds motors a few years sooner so they could have seen production and wouldnt be so hard to find info and pictures of now.
Cuttyman9 2 years ago
ill tell you what killed gm..to much pay for to little work and a very, very, very, very bad marketing team.
PONTIACDIEDIN1981 2 years ago
I agree Pontiac died in 1981 with the end of the 301 V8.
vistacruiser67 2 years ago
Keeping this engine from production was just one of the many blunders that has led GM down the drain into becomming Government Motors. If this engine had made it into production cars it would have changed history...
Freedomquest08 2 years ago 2
i would KILL to get my hands on that Olds-hemi. but what REALLY has me drooling is the all-aluminum QUAD-CAM 455 (fuck you very much Cadillac Northstar). if i ever won the lottery i'd have one of these badasses made for my '77 Supreme.
DJM442 2 years ago
Oldsmobile might still be in production today if this engine was produced...... something we will never know.
More350Power 2 years ago
Oldsmobile till death baby!
77Cutlass455 2 years ago 5
If only that Hemi 455 was stuffed into all cutlass productions of the 70's then i bet the hype would be all about oldsmobile over the mopar hemi cars.
JAMESS30288 2 years ago
I got to see the HEMI Olds at the R.E.Olds museum (Lansing, MI) in 1997 and my nipples got rock hard!
hanleyfallsmn56245 2 years ago
Imagine if that beast would have made it under the hood of a '70 W-30. The W-30 was already a bad ass street car but with that Hemi head 455 it would have been just about untouchable by most stock muscle cars roaming the streets at that time. Awesome. Post some more info on this motor when you find out more details.
Rocket4Barrel 3 years ago 5
Looks like olds had some very good potential
74duster86 3 years ago 3
Thanks for that video. I'd love to have a pair of Hemi heads for my 455.
HeavyOlds 3 years ago 7