Even with an empty tow, you're not catching it. With a full tow, the stern of your boat is 80-90 feet from the gates. When the gate starts to fail, the chamber surges, and by the time the wheelhouse figures out what's happening and engages his mains, and the clutches ship up, the wreck is well and truly on. The VQ Princess' skipper was really good, and lucky as hell , to boot. Good onya, Skip.
water drop and controlling the Princess. The fallen gate and the remaining one are being cleaned, inspected and repaired. New gates are scheduled to be installed in December, 2010.
I am a towboat Captain and have 30+ years of making Markland lock in all towboat positions and towboat sizes.
It was well documented that the gates had severe cracking around the pivots and hinges. This was repaired in 1994 and found and repaired again in 1996. Had it been a towboat with a tow in the chamber at the time this occured, the outcome would have been very different. A towboat, unless he had an empty tow, would not have been able to shove hard enough to stop the tow from rushing out the lower gates with the water. The Captain of the Princess did a very good job of catching the sudden....
therefore the upper fill valves could not have been open, they must close one set before the other set will operate. The boiling you see is visible any time the chamber is being filled, Markland is notorious for this. Any time you dump a large body of water quickly you will have waves as a result. The upper fill valves would have been open for a time until the lockman realized what was happening and then closed the valves, so the boiling action would have been even worse. Continued...
Ok, lets clear up some things. There was no barge traffic in the small chamber, so that did not cause a wake or swell in the big chamber. The lock chambers do not and cannot drain into each other. During extreme low water conditions the lock does put into place restrictions whereby two northbound boats will not be locked in succession. They will wait until a southbound boat arrives in order to get maximum use of the water above the dam. The lower dump valves are left open while the lower ......
Miter gates are called that because they fit like a miter joint on a wood picture frame.
Locks on the Ohio are 1200' l X 110' wide.Each "standard" rake barge is 195' l X35' w.15 barges + the boat will fill the chamber with 5-20' of length and 5' of width to spare.Though there is a wooden block ready for dropping into the chamber during man overboard,you'd get squished if it happened.
Locks are usually drained into one another when boats lock thru both directions to save water.
According to the Waterways Journal,the hinge pins for the miter gates(the 250 gate they were showing as being the one that failed) were worn and the COE had been inspecting them but putting off maintaining them until later in the fiscal year. Like the old ad said,"Pay me now or pay me later".
Assume that the gates were completely closed & properly seated, the gate operating mechanism was intact, & only after that was the filling valve opened as would be S.O.P. (I think)
Given those conditions, what is the probability that one gate would randomly, unpredictably, & unexpectedly blow out & fall over while holding only a few feet of head no matter what shape the hinges were in? I don't think that's what happened. Sure would like to see USACE time stamped video of the whole thing.
OMG! Ive been through about 40 locks in a canoe 3 feet off the water and that is NOT normal. I got goosebumps lookin at this. Also it is not from a wake. Ive gone in right after large barges and tows. It does not boil or whirlpool like that. It might move a little but no. I do not make a wake in the canoe and at times it is smooth as glass in there. I hope everyone is OK on the boat but I guess the deckhands had to go change after that. I cant imagine the noise of it too. billion dollar booboo
Possible I guess but the type of turbulence looked to me more like water boiling up from the inlets. It continues throughout. Should be dead slack water. I suspect the filling valve was open the whole time. Question is, did the gates fail after they closed or did they slam shut due to being ripped loose from the operating mechanism caused by the filling valve being open before the gates started moving? Lock records & video should tell the story. Bet the Corps already knows what happened.
Your deducions are right on with what I think happened. The water was definitely boiling and flowing out at 3-4knots. Not all prop wash from tow. Heard loud bang just as we began up, swells began, two more loud bangs when door fell a couple minutes later. In hindsight, it was best that the line broke to keep us from slamming against the wall. Fortunately the water was not any higher when the failure occurred. Many more thoughts, no more space.
I have been throught that lock... too me it looked like the cq was in front of the 600 foot pit that was being worked on and a barge tow took off. thats what caused all the swells in the pit when the cq pulled in.
Of course the boat was tied to the floating tie-offs and are embedded in the "wall".
While I'm only reporting what the captain and crew reported to me; I'm certain that the force of the boat being pulled back towards the failed gate would likely be enough to snap the rope. Would you agree? And although I used the word "lines", we typically would only have one line on and have the boat, and that was all that snapped.
Notice the amount of current coming out of the lock chamber toward the boat as it enters. Looks to me like somebody left the filling valve open while closing the gates. I'll betcha the flow & pressure against the gate ripped the hydraulic actuating cylinder loose & then she slammed shut HARD! If so, this could have been too much of a shock to the old hinges, causing the failure. Notice there is no such current as the boat departs. What say you rivermen?
good thing the upper gates didnt fail!
phildeez1984 1 year ago
Repairs are supposed to be completed in April 2010,per The Waterways Journal.
doughesson 2 years ago
BTW, I'm a chief engineer, with a master's ticket and 10+ years on the river.
dachief629 2 years ago
Even with an empty tow, you're not catching it. With a full tow, the stern of your boat is 80-90 feet from the gates. When the gate starts to fail, the chamber surges, and by the time the wheelhouse figures out what's happening and engages his mains, and the clutches ship up, the wreck is well and truly on. The VQ Princess' skipper was really good, and lucky as hell , to boot. Good onya, Skip.
dachief629 2 years ago
water drop and controlling the Princess. The fallen gate and the remaining one are being cleaned, inspected and repaired. New gates are scheduled to be installed in December, 2010.
I am a towboat Captain and have 30+ years of making Markland lock in all towboat positions and towboat sizes.
gman5237 2 years ago
It was well documented that the gates had severe cracking around the pivots and hinges. This was repaired in 1994 and found and repaired again in 1996. Had it been a towboat with a tow in the chamber at the time this occured, the outcome would have been very different. A towboat, unless he had an empty tow, would not have been able to shove hard enough to stop the tow from rushing out the lower gates with the water. The Captain of the Princess did a very good job of catching the sudden....
gman5237 2 years ago
therefore the upper fill valves could not have been open, they must close one set before the other set will operate. The boiling you see is visible any time the chamber is being filled, Markland is notorious for this. Any time you dump a large body of water quickly you will have waves as a result. The upper fill valves would have been open for a time until the lockman realized what was happening and then closed the valves, so the boiling action would have been even worse. Continued...
gman5237 2 years ago
Ok, lets clear up some things. There was no barge traffic in the small chamber, so that did not cause a wake or swell in the big chamber. The lock chambers do not and cannot drain into each other. During extreme low water conditions the lock does put into place restrictions whereby two northbound boats will not be locked in succession. They will wait until a southbound boat arrives in order to get maximum use of the water above the dam. The lower dump valves are left open while the lower ......
gman5237 2 years ago
Miter gates are called that because they fit like a miter joint on a wood picture frame.
Locks on the Ohio are 1200' l X 110' wide.Each "standard" rake barge is 195' l X35' w.15 barges + the boat will fill the chamber with 5-20' of length and 5' of width to spare.Though there is a wooden block ready for dropping into the chamber during man overboard,you'd get squished if it happened.
Locks are usually drained into one another when boats lock thru both directions to save water.
doughesson 2 years ago
Comment removed
doughesson 2 years ago
According to the Waterways Journal,the hinge pins for the miter gates(the 250 gate they were showing as being the one that failed) were worn and the COE had been inspecting them but putting off maintaining them until later in the fiscal year. Like the old ad said,"Pay me now or pay me later".
doughesson 2 years ago
Assume that the gates were completely closed & properly seated, the gate operating mechanism was intact, & only after that was the filling valve opened as would be S.O.P. (I think)
Given those conditions, what is the probability that one gate would randomly, unpredictably, & unexpectedly blow out & fall over while holding only a few feet of head no matter what shape the hinges were in? I don't think that's what happened. Sure would like to see USACE time stamped video of the whole thing.
shantyboat 2 years ago
OMG! Ive been through about 40 locks in a canoe 3 feet off the water and that is NOT normal. I got goosebumps lookin at this. Also it is not from a wake. Ive gone in right after large barges and tows. It does not boil or whirlpool like that. It might move a little but no. I do not make a wake in the canoe and at times it is smooth as glass in there. I hope everyone is OK on the boat but I guess the deckhands had to go change after that. I cant imagine the noise of it too. billion dollar booboo
awesomegrace22 2 years ago
Comment removed
awesomegrace22 2 years ago
Possible I guess but the type of turbulence looked to me more like water boiling up from the inlets. It continues throughout. Should be dead slack water. I suspect the filling valve was open the whole time. Question is, did the gates fail after they closed or did they slam shut due to being ripped loose from the operating mechanism caused by the filling valve being open before the gates started moving? Lock records & video should tell the story. Bet the Corps already knows what happened.
shantyboat 2 years ago
Your deducions are right on with what I think happened. The water was definitely boiling and flowing out at 3-4knots. Not all prop wash from tow. Heard loud bang just as we began up, swells began, two more loud bangs when door fell a couple minutes later. In hindsight, it was best that the line broke to keep us from slamming against the wall. Fortunately the water was not any higher when the failure occurred. Many more thoughts, no more space.
captmast 2 years ago
Comment removed
shantyboat 2 years ago
I have been throught that lock... too me it looked like the cq was in front of the 600 foot pit that was being worked on and a barge tow took off. thats what caused all the swells in the pit when the cq pulled in.
Sean1783 2 years ago
He said Seaman
madirish1975 2 years ago
Quote: "causing the lines holding the boat to the chamber wall to snap"
Every lock I've ever been in has tie-offs that float with the water level.
If you tie off on the wall, you'll sink as the water rises. If you left slack for the rise, how would you snap the slack lines?
Cool video though, thanks.
kuigy2 2 years ago
Of course the boat was tied to the floating tie-offs and are embedded in the "wall".
While I'm only reporting what the captain and crew reported to me; I'm certain that the force of the boat being pulled back towards the failed gate would likely be enough to snap the rope. Would you agree? And although I used the word "lines", we typically would only have one line on and have the boat, and that was all that snapped.
amastky 2 years ago
I don't know. Water pushing against the bow snapped ropes? Maybe. I would think that a 96' boat would use more than one heavy duty mooring line.
I just looked at the boat at their website. Those are some tiny mooring lines they use. Yeah, I bet those would snap.
kuigy2 2 years ago
Notice the amount of current coming out of the lock chamber toward the boat as it enters. Looks to me like somebody left the filling valve open while closing the gates. I'll betcha the flow & pressure against the gate ripped the hydraulic actuating cylinder loose & then she slammed shut HARD! If so, this could have been too much of a shock to the old hinges, causing the failure. Notice there is no such current as the boat departs. What say you rivermen?
- Shantyboat Mike
shantyboat 2 years ago
Excellent display of seamanship.
sfergson727 2 years ago