0-Speed Autorotation from 100-200 feet, R22 helicopter

[theclivesinclair]

Impressive and pushing the limits of the a/c and pilots - especially the last one - looked a bit hard on the airframe.

Also, don't assume everyone who instructs on R22's can perform those manoeuvres. Timing has to be perfect, with no margin for errors.

[DenisHelicopters]

So dangerous, but very nice video.

[helobelow]

Risk Vs. Benefit is a good call. Especially if you ever do need to use it in the real world of long line. Looked well done to me.

[aspiredrotary]

7 people only fly helicopters in video games, Why would anyone dislike this video about training and demonstration?? I am jealous of your near sea level full downs, even with plenty proper setup and a good headwind, 5000+ DA fulldowns do not go as smooth.

[denniswarcrafter1]

This is how i always land in GTA IV. I love it. nice vid

[brianmasivo2]

@denniswarcrafter1 je je je me too

[marialanger]

It's good to see videos proving that helicopters can safely land with engine failure/partial engine failure. But I question the real-life aspects of these demonstrations. All helicopter pilots practice autorotations, but don't we always "set up" with ideal conditions beforehand? Yes, you've proven it's possible, but only with known set up conditions and the pilot ready for the maneuver. An engine failure at 200 feet is not likely to have such a happy ending when the pilot doesn't expect it.

[UhohKyle]

@marialanger I think the point of all our autorotation practice is to add the control movements involved to muscle memory. So that in the event of an actual emergency requiring an auto our reaction times are reduced as much as possible and the actions required are automatic. But I agree with you, anyone can do an auto when it is planned and you initiate it.

[AW139TT]

@marialanger I agree, however, a great pilot should always be ready for the worst!

[marialanger]

@AW139TT But a SMART pilot should remember the height velocity diagram and why they call it "the deadman's curve."

[AW139TT]

@marialanger True, but flying within the deadman's curve is done all the time by SMART pilots...not because they want to, but because it is part of their job.

[heyeveryoneimcool]

I don't trust choppers. :(

[azzazzazzaaaa]

@heyeveryoneimcool I'd much rather be in a helicopter without power than a plane. there are helicotpers that fly solely on this principle. they are called gyrocopter :)

[cerfew601]

Phew! Second one looked scary, i got scared when you touched down moving so fast and thought it would skid sidewas and tip.... Great job on all three!

[paintball321]

@specializedheli we were just talking about your company today, then I find this video... now that's cool

[skyypilot]

wow... extremely impressive.

[tinaovali]

A skilly pilot can do a lot of things with a R 22, but NOT a low time pilot, and as they said, not a gross weight. They really know what they are doing, trust me !

[UnkleSi]

wow right in the dead mans curve. Scary stuff. Well done, you make it look easy!

[rotblade]

C'est vraiment une grosse m... ce R22

[ercam1991]

Seriously, throttle chop yourself and do a "real auto" at those altitudes and I will be impressed....I will even come there and film it for free. Until then, stop calling it an autorotation....your going to get someone killed.

[Qwerty1233210fwdfgg]

Dangerous training. The chance to have a real crash training autorotation this way is actually very big. But the video is very nice to see :-)

[specializedheli]

Given the configuration and guide lines we perform this type of training under, they are just as safe as any full down autorotation. As an added measure we do not perform them at Max. gross weight, nor are they designed for your average student. This is part of an advanced training program designed for long line pilots and those that hover in the HV curve as part of there job. I think your comment that they are dangerous is relative. I know they are safe or we would not be doing them.

[aviatorsbh]

@specializedheli I won't be so sure! On our airfield two people died in a crash while training an engine failure right after takeoff in an old PZL-104 Wilga. One of them was a very skilled and experienced trainer.

[specializedheli]

Sorry to hear that. We have a Wilga airplane here on the field. I did not mean to say that training is a completely safe thing. In fact, all training can be deadly as so can flying in general. I am specifically talking about level of excepted risk Vs. Reward.

[aviatorsbh]

@specializedheli Thats what I wanted to point out as well!

[tjtg]

nice flying. it looks like you have sufficient inertia in the blades to really take your time. Are you "popping" the collective at the end to bleed off rotor speed ??

[yumyumsashimi]

what a sloppy pilot

[cheerdiver]

U don't understand, the pilot has no forward momentum, which makes for a challenging recovery. Forward momentum helps the blades turn.

[tburns7v]

wow, hey look another moron... great job yumyum! you have earned douchebag of the day award

[eamh2002]

Does the copter actually still spin the rotor to the lifting direction, or does the fall make it go backwards?

[gremlinkiller]

as far as i know once the engen cuts the blades decrease pitch slightly to help carry the rotor speed till your close to the ground then pitch it increased to get lift to slow you down. i dont really know that's why im watching theses vids

[gtokarsk]

And who the heck says helicopters cannot glide?! It's all about skill and accurate recognition and execution of an emergency procedure.. in time - in this case with lighting speed! :) Good thing these were planned "emergencies" though ;)

[Toro76aus]

iv flown less than 2hrs so i have next to no skill in flying a heli, but i do know from theory that an autorotation from that kinda low height would be a bastard to do! thanx for the inspiration! i will be up there in the sky one day....

[Toro76aus]

in a flight manual iv read, it says lower the collective fully as soon as the engine fails, probably to maximise the surface area of the main rotar wings perpendicular to the ground

[RobertGary1]

Its to avoid stalling the blades and to windmil them. If the blades slow down you're sitting in a rock.

[LarryCanFly]

Do you lower the collective all the way real fast? Is the push over done at the same time or after or before collective? Do the needles split? Thanks for posting these videos! Very cool and very helpful!

[specializedheli]

@LarryCanFly yes, lower real fast as you ease over forward. You can choose your RPM or split completly when ready for a challenge but in the early stages of training we always reduce Engine RPM to 95% or more to prevent the Rotor RPM from going to low. This allows the students plenty of time to get it right without significant risk.

[nightsta1ker1]

@specializedheli I can see how the risk is mitigated by only partially reducing the power. Also, most real engine failures are not a sudden stop but a degradation of power that may turn into a full failure, so chopping the throttle is not only not as safe, but not as realistic for training purposes. And finally, if you can pull this off in a 22, you can pull it off in just about anything. I am sure those pilots are getting some good training out of it.

[specializedheli]

Mark your Calendars now, April 1st. is the 4th annual Full down auto rotation contest.

And, Yes we know its April fools day and thats the same day we hold the event every year. You'l have to join in the fun to find out why.

[HelimanZ06]

Nice flying!

[donnyb6888]

this guy knows whats up

[DizzleyBoy]

That second one scared the pants off me.

[MrHelicopterguy]

okay specialized dude. In these autoroations how are the being entered. With the collectvie being lowered then rolling off throttle. or chopping power. If they are done the first way i would like to see videos from when the power is chopped. If they are done the second way good job. it is amazing the altitude difference lost compared to entering them both ways.

[specializedheli]

As indicated below these are done as a partial power failure so we don't chop the throttle, we simply reduce the RPM and if the student does not lower the collective by that indication we can recover without too much problem. The other thing is that it is not a surprise, just as it should not be a surprise if you are working that low and slow (for most pilots anyway) and the reaction time is reduced to almost simultaneous with the loss of RPM and resulting entry to auto by the pilot (hopefully).

[MrHelicopterguy]

i am not saying i don't agree with these becuase they surely are fun and a rush. i just think that people should understand that in this video it is done with a slight reduce in rpm and then lowering. i think you can admit that if at that altiude of 150 that a chopped throttle would not end as it does in this video. so yes they are impressive but it all depends on how they are done. thanks for the response

[helipilot3333]

Wow, that is some damn impressive flying. Makes me a feel a little better if I get behind the controls again.

[obese1konobe]

This is why you are very careful who you let fly your helicopter.

If I owned this machine I would be severely pissed off looking at the stress put on the tailboom attachments on these nodding run ons!!

Why teach recovery for a speed / height combination specifically prohibited in the flight manual.

[korbannc]

The height/velocity diagram is not in the Limitations section of the pilots operating handbook for Robinsons. The key word from the chart is "avoid". What they are doing is not specifically or generally prohibited by the handbook. If you were more familiar with helicopters this would make more sense to you.

[obese1konobe]

I would love to hear what frank Robinson makes of your interpretation of the 'Avoid' speed / height regime. He would probably be as impressed as your insurers would be.

CLAIM DENIED

[obese1konobe]

Last Month I celebrated my 31st year as a ATPL Helicopter / fixed wing pilot.

The key thing I have learnt in all this time is to adhere to the flight manual.

To go beyond these limits courts disaster.

[specializedheli]

Correct and good idea but the HV diagram is a take off profile and max gross weight- and again, these are from a partial power failure and with 30 min. of fuel, pilot weights less than 170 each. Congratulations on your 31st year!

[specializedheli]

Wrong on all accounts and bad attitude- Take a look at the NTSB reports and then get back to me on why helicopters crash.

[obese1konobe]

Wrong on all accounts am I !!!

So what does Frank Robinson think of you operating/training in R22's well inside the published "Avoid" Speed/Height profile???.

I am looking forward to your reply

[specializedheli]

i can't explain how the H\V works in the limited space on this message system nor do i want to take the time but to answer your question, I don't know how Frank feels except to say i know he would prefer people to train in the R44 as opposed to the R22 and that his test pilots have done this type of auto and still are to this day. So what is your point? Its dangerous! I agree with that.

[AW139TT]

@obese1konobe A LOT of companies/pilots have to fly in the grey. It is a part of their job, you think a search and rescue heli is not going to save a person in need because it requires them to fly in the "Avoid Speed/height profile" ? C'mon man, think about it before you post silly responses.

[AW139TT]

@specializedheli Everyone on youtube knows how to fly a helicopter...they are ALL right about EVERYTHING they say..

(Did you sarcasm meter peak?) =)

[mikesystem01]

1 st one was the best out of all 3 2 thumbs up for that one the other 2 not too bad

[Woodsballer209]

AMAZING skills! That is worth the watching of this post...Remind me to hire the pilot for my next helo ride. GREAT post!

[dudumillencolins]

=O

you have to build up speed very quickly to avoid settling with power in that situation, dont you?!

[specializedheli]

SWP needs power to develop and wont happen in auto, the speed is for developing RRPM significant enough to arrest your decent during the flair portion of the maneuver.

[Ricks550]

One of the criteria's for 'settling with power' is to not be in an autorotation. You need airspeed (in an auto) to convert that energy in your flair.

[gavronehud]

Specialized, thanks for the video and all the followup comments. I'm a student about to get my private pilot cert, mostly R22 and about 7 hrs R44 work. Your auto and descriptions are awesome and instructional. Thanks!

E

(user gavronehud)

[specializedheli]

Thank you. I would be more than happy to explain more but youtube limits the amount of words we can us so i have to keep my answers short. If you ever need a real explination feel free to contact us at the office- Specialized Helicopters.

[jdvodka]

i would love to do these autos

[specializedheli]

Sign up for the class-

[737tech]

That is amazing. I would have thought that only a Jet Ranger could do that.. Shows what good pilot training can do. Very encouraging....

[specializedheli]

Remember that these are done at very low weight and by highly trained pilots. The jetranger is not designed to do these either.

[bburrett]

Awesome video. I didn't even think the 22 would do that. I met a couple of the guys from Specialized at the Heli Expo. Good group of people.

[specializedheli]

Thanks, we do have a good team here. Its amazing what the r22 can do when its light!

[VliengWieng]

Holy smokes! Didn't know that was possible in a 22! I wonder if one would be able to react quickly enough in a real life engine failure though!

[specializedheli]

Thats why we train for these. When you are in that flight envelope you should be expecting the malfunction so that you are ready to react.

[WhiskyCreekRanch]

I've done real o airspeed autos in a Hiller 12E. O Airspeed ALL the way to the ground from 700 feet.

[ohlordmiker]

Zero airspeed means they are at a hover when auto starts.

[Skywakacaptan]

Shes a run on brother not a zero speed, but nice work anyway.

[pantherairborne]

Every auto is a run on....particularly in R22's. The zero speed is in reference to the start point and position.

[Skywakacaptan]

Correction, nearly every auto in a R22 is a run on. A Zero Zero speed autorotation with a non powered recovery can be achieved in a R22 and ive experienced it. But honestly R22s have too much pucker factor for me these days, ill just stick to something more 5 bladed. Happy Rotating.

[thewhiteowl1]

I know Frank would not endorse this use and show of his Helicopter.

[ft6zzz]

Ok, if you say so. I hope your insurance underwriter doesn't see this.

[ft6zzz]

Partial engine failure? What is the point? How do you ensure the same power setting every time? What real world situation does this try to recreate? Are you nuts?

[specializedheli]

Starts from a low RPM situation in some cases, 133 training (sling load), aerial photo, banner towing, construction, forestry, fire suppression, power line, to name a few! Why would we need to ensure a power setting? Not nuts, nothing new to helicopters maybe just new to you.

[bucknaked466f]

that was awesome! i'll stick to 65k at 1000 for now. hahaha.

[Kasamandl]

RESPECT !!!

[180autorotation]

well we know it can be done now. Thank you for doing it. What elevation was this done at and what was the D/A and what were the winds and what was the Gross weight?  Please, im not joking I would like to know...

[specializedheli]

touchdown location, 163 MSL, DA less than 1500, weight less than 1250lbs.

Yes you can do these but it is not to be tried without serious training in this area. WE do not take them lightly and it is a complete training course prior to performing them.

[jasonbadler]

very nice job.

[B4its2L8guy]

Does this damage the skids?

[specializedheli]

Only the skid shoes if done correctly and if mother nature does not get in the way too much ( wind shift!!).

[wagner55]

nice rolling landings!

[toddj8633]

I did a zero airspeed auto at around 300 agl at the Robinson Safety Course. HV diagram is FAA inplemented, assuming average conditions, average pilot and no prep. 100' is pushing it, but obviously it can be done. Wouldn't let me cfi student do it tho. Anyhow, looks great, obviously lots of skill. Entertaining too!

[specializedheli]

Thanks

[joggeskoen]

why are you teaching a student how to perform an autorotation from 1oo feet?? Is he a PVT sutdent or? According to the POH R22 hight velocity diagram 400' - 0 A/S is at the limit.

I have done several O.G.E hover autos from 300 feet with the 300cbi and I have to say that practising on sim. engine failure at 100 feet is nothing but stupid. And a level attitude would me smoother not aft portion of skid. lucky u didn't get a tailstrike ha ha("The R22 generates most of its lift from A/S??ETL16-24kts

[specializedheli]

You are right that it is a risky training maneuver-We do this during CFI training and under our guidelines, It can be done safely (or at least as safe as flying helicopters in general) we do this because we need our instructors and students to be able to handle this situation during low and slow operations and sling load. _I have to keep this short due to posting requirements.

[manysticks]

I know people that had to do them in real power failures, I imagine how unnerving it is to do one when you're in control of it and know its about to happen. But having your engine fail and THEN going into auto rotate is nuts.

[MaxFlightStick]

Just tried the auto rotation at simlular conditions in my flight sim.

Have a look at my vid response. I think its close to what you did =)

[specializedheli]

Great- Thanks

[MaxFlightStick]

Amazing guts and control. 5stars!

[camp69]

Zeroes AS scared the !!!! out of me, even knowing it was above the curve. Got demoed a couple but haven't done myself, I'd probably pull the collective off!

[farodkhaledmossad]

I experienced once as passenger and was horrible. Th g force you feel like flying yourself then go straight to the ground is the worst. Hopefully no injuries cause we " landed" in the middle of the street.

[VodkaFanClub]

Very nice landings!

[holybejaysus]

So just out of curiosity, what is the recovery procedure for one of these? Lower collective and cyclic hard forward, then bring cyclic neutral while raising the collective? (Don't worry I'm not planning on doing one, but any info that increases my chances of survival I'll take thanks!)

[specializedheli]

Too many variable to go over here but basically if things go as planned ( and thats rare) lower collective without dumping fully, drop nose to 90 kts attitude, Ride the airspeed increase and decent until RPM increases to green Range, flare- The lower the RPM at the end of the flare the faster and longer the ground run will be. ( These were done very light, 5 kts wind.

This is a very basic look- i'm sure it does nothing to help except to encourage questions.

[franzjosefnz]

well asking someone online how to do it then going out and somehow getting a chopper, getting airborne and a few other miracles before having a go at an auto will be guaranteed to be fatal.

[specializedheli]

I have seen some dumb things but that would be crazy, again- DON'T TRY THIS WITHOUT EXPERT ASSISTANCE. I personally don't know of anyone else doing these so for the most part this video demonstrates an edge of the physical envelope for the R22 and should not be thought of as a how to video. Trust me, you wont be able to "figure out" how to do this safely by yourself.

[Kilomph]

I want this kind of training! I plan on flying for Boatpix (haha, I know) so this could prove to be VERY useful!

[norcalengineer]

Wow! I can't even do that in flight sim. Actually, I wouldn't even TRY that in flight sim! Beautiful piloting!

[n2dauphin]

I have done em as low as like 40kts...wasnt the best feeling...good job tho on the 0 speed!!!

[joachim2464]

i am no aviation expert. Is it possible with full engine failure?

[POMPANOJOE88]

Yes, The sprag clutch keeps the engine and drive line apart. Even if the engine freezes the rotors will still freely move.

[MrXenophobe]

Very possible. It's a tad unnerving practicing your first one to the ground but with complete power failure I'd MUCH rather be using rotary than fixed wing.

[captainhags]

well technically, arent no flare autorotations the smart thing to do if your low over a smooth hard surface. That way theres no chance of loosing rotor rpm and dropping like a rock. thats in a perfect situation over a smooth hard surface though. in the real world an auto you walk away from is pretty damn good under the circumstances

[specializedheli]

It depends on where you are in relation to descent rate vs. airspeed. If possible, always flaire.

[spidey692003]

Very imppresive! especially in a 22!

[wires99]

I'm not a pilot, but I'd have thought that 100ft is a bit low for doing survivable autorotation. I guess I was wrong. What IS the minimum, at least for this type?

[spidey692003]

"what IS the minimum, at least for this type?"

I think you've just seen it. : )

[specializedheli]

100' is just as low as possible in light winds. Keep in mind that as it may be possible to perform these very low autorotations under controlled conditions the average helicopter needs at least 400' (from zero airspeed) to establsh a good autorotation glide speed, decent rate and RPM.

[troyhertzog]

the second one was a lil scary there was barely any flare...

are you able to build back 100% RPM or are these done with lower RPM and lower descent rate?

[pf126p]

Apparently he wanted to do a run-on from that zero-speed.

[specializedheli]

sometimes the flare is ended early to use more forward airspeed to generate the lift needed. The R22 generates most of its lift from airspeed.

The RPM is as high as we can get and usually that means just at 95% prior to flare. But RPM is realitve to weight, the lighter the aircraft the less RPM that we need and also that the R22 can generate. Often after a minor student mistake the only bailout is to run on the landing.

NOTE: These are extemely dangeous.

[gtokarsk]

So were all of these good autorotations? I had a feeling that the first one was not that smooth when it touched down and the last one seemed like the pilot did not land 100% in the same direction as the heli was pointing.. but then again I am just guessing :) Just interested how close to a "perfect" score this would have been.

[specializedheli]

Perfect enough. With so much happening at the bottom and with only 1-2 seconds to make corrections for any inperfections in the flare if you don't bounce more than 1 foot nd end up on the taxiway, things went well for th student.

[gtokarsk]

Thx. Hope they never get to do a real one, just the practice ones ;)

[jjohnson5946]

Very Nice!

[luker44]

great auto's, awsome for a 22

[reganaikin]

Absolutely awsome!!

[Nojgrossnickler]

Wow the rotor decay is fast!

[stefdurre]

whou!

bloody good autos!

[PetterG2]

Amazing!

[motokid032]

Nice..Feel bad for that little Robinson though lol.

[royaltonrotors08]

that last one lost a lot of rpm's in the air wow you guys are pretty much amazing

[dustywar]

awesome!!

[VERT531CA]

I love watching you guys do these!