Corruption
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Added: 4 years ago
From: gravel2008
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  • correct campaign finance reform is the only thing that will fix this problem

  • i guess he just wasn't corrupt enough to get to the big house... isn't that terrible?

  • Truly amazing video!

  • why wont this video work

  • MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

  • On June 4,1963 JFK signed exective order 11110 which effectively shut down the Federal Reserve by forcing the US Treasury to issue Treasury notes against all silver not yet claimed by the american people.On the day of his assassination those T notes were removed from circulation. BTW...it was not Jr. assassinated on 11/22/1963, it was Sr.

  • You are correct. It was JFK I meant to write (and not JFK, Jr.). Long days and long nights in front of the computer make for silly errors like that...thanks for pointing it out.

  • HillBlazers is a play on Trailblazers, not Hell Raisers. GIVE ME A BREAK.

  • nothing like being excluded from office and debate by how much money you have.....what a system

  • Nothing like being excluded from debates and media coverage, while others with less exp. get ALL the coverage. HUH?

  • this election is so ludicrous .. I'm writing in ScoobyDoo. fuggedabowdit !

  • Mike Gravel is not widely known as a candadiate because as was and is the case for Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul, former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel does not accept lobby money and is not a CFR member.

  • If I lived in the US, I would def vote for Mike Gravel!

    Sadly, I'm *stuck* in Slovakia :P

    He got a point in my book for quoting Steve Jobs! (((:

  • Slovakia's not so bad now that Meciar is no longer "leading" and your in the EU. I lived there for many years. You can be proud your country hasn't spent SKK 10,000,000,000,000 on a lost corrupt war.

  • Ron PAUL HAS NO BUNDLES EITHER, because on nov 5 2007 and several other days tens of thousands of people donated and we made several million dollars.

    no bundles, just the people putting their money where there mouth is.

    We haven't had an "election" since the media has become a playing for the candidate that can promise them the best outcome for them.

    I'm not a democrat, I find the idea similar to 2 wolfs and a lamb voting on what is for dinner.

    with respect for you all, but RON PAUL for me

  • If Gravel had to pick  would he vote for Obama or Hilary

  • He would not pick any.

  • wow your live saving for the ni4d

    is it going to go through congress

  • the only thing that is going to change this country at this point is another civil war, apparently thats the only thing the politicians can agree on ... war and senseless deaths

  • petitiononline(dot)com/granad0­8/petition(dot)html

  • campaign finance reform!

  • It is still all about the money..follow the money. Until we THE PEOPLE change the way the system is run it will remain the same...its all an effin game and the PEOPLE are the losers. the right man/woman who is honest and from the people will NOT WIN...until WE change the system..it is broken...it is broken. We haven't had an election for the last 8 years, and I'm beginning to wonder if it has always been smoke and mirrors. We know who owns this country and it isn't the people.

  • We haven't had an election since the JFK assassination by CIA.

    Since then, the whole system is rigged! The Bilderbergs, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the CIA/Military-Industrial Complex, and the Int'l bankers - who profit from the wars these thugs orchestrate - are all running the show, like a bunch of evil "Puppet Masters"!

    It's ALL about MONEY & CORRUPTION! WE THE PEOPLE help them, because WE VOTE for the candidate promoted by BIG MONEY & BIG MEDIA! They WIN - WE LOSE!

  • Who is that kid? Gravel Couldn't afford an actor to appear in this so he went on the street and picked up a kid?

    "Hey kid, wanna make 5 bucks?"

  • It is his grandson.

  • Thank you Mike Gravel! Know that you are respected and loved. You, Kucinich, and Paul are the only honest voices out there. It's a shame the media lies to us, silences you. I watch the three of you speak truth to power at the debates (before you and Kucinich were both silenced for your views), and it warms my heart knowing that people do stand up for us.

    Thank you, Mike Gravel.

  • Very professionally done.

  • Because she is a war mongering money whore.

  • Well stated. And it does run in the family. Too bad so many don't remember

  • Please Gravel. Run as an independent. You have nothing in common with this corrupted parties.

    Gravel 2008 !

  • agreed with pishkka! lame.

  • You and pishkka are both poor, misguided fools. Perhaps one day you will both wake up...I almost feel sorry for you- why don't you listen to the message and perhaps you'll understand what's at stake- but somehow I don't think you will- you're too comfortable with who the media and powerful others have chosen to be president. Mike Gravel is a GREAT man and would be a great president that we could all be proud of. BTW, who do you support?

  • What exactly about this video is using a child for propoganda? I don't think anyone with the campaign is USING a child for propoganda. Everything that child is saying in this video is the truth. Perhaps you should check out some of his other vids, and check out alternate sources for information rather than listening to what the mainstream media has to say.

  • You are a misguided person, not fool.

  • pishkka:

    I don't know you, so I shouldn't judge.

    Do you know Mike Gravel? So why are you judging? Why do you think this is some petty propaganda video?

  • first of all you sure have a lot guts making such a bold statement about me without even knowing me. second of all FUCK YOU! you are the misguided fool following such a joke of a candidate. who i am voting for is none of your business simply because i do not like you!

  • Wow, Kyle! That sure is an intelligent response. If I offended you with the "misguided fool" comment, I apologize. I did not however burst into expletives or disrespect whomever you happen to support. By the way, if you missed overmind's previous post, the child in question is Sen. Gravel's grandson.If you knew anything about Sen. Gravel, you would know that he is no joke. You should be thankful you haven't been drafted yet. Yes that's because of Senator Gravel the person you just called a joke.

  • really ? .. in just this instance or would you say in general ? As using children and kissing babies is an age old tradition in politics.

  • It seems the last two just canditates-Ron Paul and Mike Gravel-have been totally decimated by the pressure of NWO elite's campaign of intimidation and censorship! Wake up America, vote for a true American patriot for President!

  • The music is distracting.

  • It is better to be an unjust man, as long as you appear to be just. Because you gain all the rewards of a just man and the fortunes of the unjust. So, to be presuaded by the seemingly just man is working in the favor of the man who is really unjust. Therefore, we should be like those who we praise and be unjust.

  • For all those who say Barack Obama's campaign is clean: Ha! He takes money from AIPAC and the AARP, hence that is false to the utmost degree.

    Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, and John McCain are terrible too, and Clinton is the worst.

    For all those who think a Democrat will magically solve everything: For this very reason the Democratic party has controlled their election more, hence Gravel being cut off early and Paul surviving this long. The most popular party becomes the most corrupt invariably.

  • Well stated. To quote Gravel:

    "We all know that money is the corrupting influence in politics... so wouldn't it follow that those with the most money are the most corrupt?"

    The Democrats are out-fundraising the Republicans. Is that any great surprise?

  • I'll try to stay in school ChannelMikeG. I want to become a corporate toadie, but I have the same "ways" as Gravel. It wouldn't go over too well. =[

  • I know what you mean. It's not easy having a conscience these days.

  • Winner is ChannelMikeG!

  • Over 200 Million a day spent in this illegal war, hope people wake there ass up an realise your the only anti war candidate running this election.

  • Whee! Up to #16.

    Rembember kids, stay in school and don't become corporate toadies.

  • lol and "rembember" to learn how to spell

  • "I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it, than for what I don't want and get it."--Eugene V. Debs

    Stand strong America! Don't vote for corporate trash! Gravel won't win the nomination, but he'll stay in the race until November. Voting for him makes a statement. With increases in the polls, the public starts to take notice of another option awaiting them in November.

    End the war and empower yourself to fight the corruption that got us into this mess. That is a winning message.

  • i kno what u mean, but i have mixed feelings...sometimes one has to recognize the odds that are against him, and tho mike gravel would make an EXCELLENT president, is it worth making a statement if the evilest of evils ends up in the white house? thats what happened with bush when people made their statements by not voting. I'm not saying anything absolute here, but id like to know what u think...is it worth starting a revolution if the means to do it result in the opposite of the desired end?

  • Perhaps you're right as far as the general election and maybe even primaries. But make sure you vote for the National Initiative and tell your friends about it. I think that's the kind of thing Mike Gravel really wants. He knows he's not getting elected. But we can still pull together and enact the Initiative.

  • "Paul Vows to Remain a Republican in Race

    2 hours ago

    HOUSTON (AP) — Presidential hopeful Ron Paul said he will not run as a third-party candidate in a new message to supporters that seems to recognize his slim chances at getting the Republican nomination."

    I think the choice is a lot easier now. The corrupt two-party system won't correct itself. It's up to the people now to unite behind the NI4D.

  • WooHoo #24 in in most viewed!

  • LOL, yeah right

    Cite your source - no cookies for you.

  • ha ha

    what an idiot

    (I guess you're talking about yourself?)

  • hmm

    first off

    he has them, u kinda need them

    money doesnt grow off fucking trees and its not like he can pull the amout of money out of his ass

    hes been a politician for awhile and the money from it isnt anywhere near as much as he has got. yes he has had some donations but he had bundlers too.

    and check my source?

    um do me a favor and suck my balls

    then you can look at my sources

  • Actually money does grow on trees. The federal reserve which btw is not a govrnmnt entity creats money out of thin air with a simple keystroke and prints the money on paper which grows on trees. Also that "money" is not backed by anything....yes Virginia, money grows on trees. Do your research sheep.

  • lol, money doesn't get pulled out of your assm but it does come off your ass...US money is made from cotton from re-cycled blue jeans.

  • Bills are composed of 25% linen and 75% cotton; red and blue synthetic fibers are distributed throughout the paper. since cotten and linen are plants (ok not a tree, a bush) the analogy still fits. Also since they a made with a few keystrokes and not backed by anything, they are still worthless. [please take the time to read the Constitution:Article 1 section 8 and tell me what they are supposed to be either made of or at least backed by.btw it hasn't been backed by either since November 22,1963

  • I know how worthless it is & Kudoos to you for spreading the word!

    I was just being a smarty pants about the tree part. ;)

  • November 22, 1963 was the day that John F. Kennedy, Jr. was assassinated in Dallas, Texas.

  • it used to be backed by gold didnt it? and i thought that stoped in the great depression era.

  • Actually it happened in 1934 after the election of F.D.R. who made gold illegal for the american people to own, and the Feds actually went as far as going door to door to collect it from the people (Gold Coins)to pay off the debt that the U.S. Government owed to the Federal Reserve (Which BTW is unconstitutional, Art.1 section 8 and 10). The federal Reserve actually caused the Great Depression by constricting the money supply by 2/3 in order to force the Gov. to pay them with ..."our gold".

  • All of this happened between 1913 and 1934..so it only took the money masters 21 years to bankrupt this nation, which was officially declared bankrupt in 1938. At that point we also lost our law and went from Constitutional Law to "Public Policy" AKA "Statutory Law"... Look up UCC 1-103 and UCC 1-207 ...recourse and remedy...learn to deal with them and deny jurisdiction, also find out the true definition of "US Citizen". I am not one, but I am a "American Citizen"...a "Sovereign Citizen".

  • so i was right then? and also ive heard you don't have to pay an income tax, but maby thats just one of the conspiricy videos ive been watchin.

  • semms you tube didn't wish to post my last message ..if you don't live in D.C. or one of it's territories, then you are not a US citizen subject to Federal law.Zip Codes are designated by the IRS as federal zones...don't except mail with zips...Mail reg. DMSR 122.32...spellout your state name and forgo the zips and only except mail in the same format.You must learn the laws for yourseves...the Gov. certainly isn't going to help you find the truth...that's why we have gov. funded public schools

  • mmmm i like my not so corrupt canada, but every day under mr. harper we move closer and closer to the corporate hell USA has become, and i hope our school does not become a brainwashing zone for corparate and private intrests.

  • sorry to break your heart...it already has, we are all under the thumbs of the IMF aka the money masters...he who controls the currency, controls the nation. The only way to change things is to return to sound currency and stop the manipulation of Fiat currency. No nation with Fiat money has ever survived...take a look at the US dollar, it has the buying power of .03 cents compared to what it was worth in 1913 when the Federal Reserve came to power...during Christmas break at the congress....

  • so youve seen zeitgeist like me then?

  • I have, however I do a lot of "legal research" on the side. I know who I am and I know my status.Look at things...say yer driver's Lic. Is your name all capitalized?...if so you have been made a fictitious entity(a corpration) by the powers that be, subject to corporate bylaws...Statutes.Our Govs. have incorporated and we are incorporated too. Ya just need to find out how to unincorporate yourseves. Most people look at things from one angle...things look different from different angles.Knowledge

  • om... no i dont have a drivers licence, and i do look at the world in a knowledgable way, i was just wondering if you had seen the movie like i did, changed my life in a way that film did, liked it so much i watched it 4 times, off topic tho, are you saying that without a drivers licence im not subject to by laws?

  • No...in any dealings with gov. or any corporation they always capitalize your entire name, making you a corporate entity.All courts etc. do this. It is improper english to speel a proper name in that way...unles it is a corp.That entity is NOT you. It is a ficticious entity, and when dealing with them you have to deny that it is you.Denial of Corporate Existence. Once done they have a hard time dealing with a natural human.Everything is based on contracts. Not me...no contract. Bedtime for me

  • Believe it or not...I have a court case today..been up all night preparing for it...need about 3 hrs. sleep before I go messing up the system and trying to wreak havoc...lol

  • lol

  • good night

  • ugh, as much as i love the zeitgeist movie and how its changed my life too. to all the people i talk about it to, i feel like were all so ignorant because that is automatically what people refer to.

  • Don't think so negative about it. If i may share my thoughts, i see it this way. The zeitgeist movie is a great unveiling to anyone who isn't ignorant because first of all they took the time and effort to watch the complete movie. Secondly i can not imagine anyone seeing zeitgeist will stop doing research of there own just by looking at 1 vid, there is alot more info about cases related to cover-ups and secret agenda's. More people should talk about it! I hope my comment wasn't a bother. Peace.

  • Your statement is false. Gravel, Kucinic and Paul have no bundlers. whitehouseforsale(dot)org Shut up next time.

  • Gravel is a good man.

  • Indeed he is.

    He has given over 10 years of his life and money trying to help us find a way out of our mess.

  • There are a lot of things I don't understand... here's one of them. How would we institute Campaign Finance Reform to keep CEOs from forcing their employees to donate to candidates not of their choosing?

  • Easy! Total public financing of campaigns.

  • Great video and the truth!

  • lol looks like daisym555 will get the cookies

  • No, I think you are in the lead! lol

  • I hoped it catch on more.  We got up to about #25 at least.

  • We did pretty good.

    Now we need to repeat it!

  • Mike Gravel's got my vote come November 4th!

  • Gravel points out that this fear of immigration is just another scape-goat issue.

  • yes, and one of the worst tactics being used to prolificate fear.

    america owes its very existance to the immigrant.

    thank you for continuing to bring out the truthonestruth. ameriCANs should be doing nothing less. ameriCANTs need a quick education in reality.

  • I wish I was 18.

  • Why? There is nothing you can't do now that you can do at 18. Voting is like rooting for the losing boxer in a fixed match. Pointless. What you can do is learn as much as you can about its corruptness and spread the word...to your parents, teachers, classmates, and other relatives. Make people uncomfortable. Challenge them. If you're not making people think and not getting their heart rate up, you're not doing it right.

  • "Paul Vows to Remain a Republican in Race

    2 hours ago

    HOUSTON (AP) — Presidential hopeful Ron Paul said he will not run as a third-party candidate in a new message to supporters that seems to recognize his slim chances at getting the Republican nomination."

  • Paul always understates, and the press always attempts to diminish the appearance of his chances. Don't forget he has his home State of Texas coming up - which has a huge number of delegates and Washington State where he runs very strong. He also has vastly more cash on hand than any of his other remaining Republican contenders. He's not running as a third-party candidate because he recognizes that independent runs are ALWAYS unsuccessful, and it's too late to do so anyway at this point.

  • Gravel Kucinich Paul Nader

    The truth is powerful:

    "Carrots"

    "Sticks"

    "Coercive Diplomacy"

  • Wow! A canidate who doesn't take corperate lobby money!? It should be pretty obvious that corperate media and MONEY run elections. We need to make a law that levels the playing field. Gives each canidate equal time in TV ADs and print ect. Let the PEOPLE do the groundwork if they support their canidate, instead of hiring people to 'support' you.

    Sad thing is, I hadn't heard of Gravel until recently, and we missed him on many of the dabates. Things need to change...

  • You can send me a box of those chocolate chip cookies for being right. How much money has Mike Gravel received (from anyone) - in total - from the first quarter of last year to the present? And how much does he have currently on hand to continue his campaign? And why won't anyone contribute to his campaign? Sorry to be raining on your tiny parade. Ron Paul is the best hope that we've got right now for an America governed by the Constitution, not Corporate-Gov't anarchy.

  • Take a sweet BITE out of corruption!

    Cookies!

  • Corrupt sucks!

    ...but chocolate chip cookies are tasty!

    More commments, people!

  • Corruption, noun not the verb :p

  • We made it to page 3 of most viewed in News & Politics!

  • running for public office should free, or at the very least very minimal. they run and keep the proceeds they collect as a payoff. too bad romney was'nt very smart. speak the truth we can have a better world.

  • I like chocolate chip cookies. :D

    I'll copy a reminder:

    Mississippi Primary - March 11

    You still have time to register on Monday!

  • And big Media coverage priceless. WE THE PEOPLE have to Unite or we Fad away. The System is not in our hands anymore. you have to be able to see that by now. Down with the CFR / police state agenda. Give me liberty.......

  • boy who keep mark me as spam. the DNC?

  • Seems to be a rash of that on this video -especially since I offered cookies, lol.

    This one made it to page 3!

    yeah!

    We CAN do it.

  • Hopefully more some to follow. We can do it. Thanks

  • This video is #68 most viewed in News & Politics!

    We need to get it up to at least 60 to be on the front 5 pages in the section.

    Every time you view, post a comment saying so.

    I will send 2 dozen of the best chocolate chip cookies you ever had to the person who pushes up the view count the most as indicated by the comments.

  • No cookies for paulbots!

  • Even if you politicians with real integrity (Gravel, Kucinich, Paul) don't win this election, know that your work is greatly appreciated, and we still support your efforts to make this country a better place. It's frustrating how the bought politicians are the ones we seem to be saddled with now, but we won't give up.

  • We have to be prepared to carry on IDEAS!

    We will need them and sooner than many think.

  • great vid ^_^ Ron Paul 08... Gravel can't beat 58 mil... you should get gravel supporters to vote for ron paul... he's our only hope left...

  • Paul has a brick wall called the GOP to go against, and a House seat to protect.

    Gravel is in this until the final showdown come November.

  • Go Mike! Unfortunately our next president was chosen for us, possibly even years ago. But you are great and I voted for you!

  • I would either vote for Gravel or Ron Paul if I lived in the U.S.

  • How can you say that, What Mike Gravel has done for the US is priceless. Mike Gravel isnt corruption he barely has money for his campaign. he declared personal bankruptcy in 2004, he lost his job flipping houses in Alaska after the senate because the company declared bankruptcy.

  • Most of all, works for companies. You better took a look at their ear marks, on democrats. Wow, a billions of dollars for the Democrats, for the tax payer has to pay back. Monkey Mike already lost this race. He's knows it!

  • This is a rad video.

  • This video is #68 most viewed in News & Politics!

    We need to get it up to at least 60 to be on the front 5 pages in the section.

    Every time you view, post a comment saying so.

    I will send 2 dozen of the best chocolate chip cookies you ever had to the person who pushes up the view count the most as indicated by the comments.

  • I hope more people watch this video and realize the leading candidates are all bought and paid for...not by the American people, but by powerful interest groups

  • Absolutely brilliant video - probably the best I've seen yet of MG. My mother and I voted for Mike in the primaries and will continue to do so, regardless.

  • Mississippi Primary - March 11

    You still have time to register on Monday!

    Gravel is ON the ballot and it is an open primary so you don't even have to be a registered Democrat!

  • Suppose the Democratic and Republican party crowned their nominees and the American people didn't give a hoot! Gravel in 2008!

  • They have already chosen them, they just keep up this game for ???

    I am very suspicious of it all...from the TV coverage begining as soon as the Nov 06 results were in to this amazing coincidence of Clinton & Obama having exactly the same # of votes in one area?

    What are the "magicians" doing that they are putting on such a distraction?

  • excellent video.

  • RX2008: You raised my $10 by $20 and I raised your $30 by $20 but I don't think you saw my previous comment. Are you up for it?

  • what a load

  • MIKE...DONT GIVE UP! You are the most inspirational politician I have ever seen!

    I am learning as much as I can from you so that when the times comes for me one day to run for ditrict council.....I will follow in your foot steps!

  • Great!

    This is what our nation desperately needs...inspiration from the local level up!

  • everyone should view this video....mike gravel in 08!!! Kucinich and Gravel ticket!

  • my dream is that Ron Paul, Gravel, and Kucinuch go at it

  • Man like Mike Gravel let me hope for a better future

  • Tomorrow I caucus for Mike Gravel. I have never been so driven for an idea and candidate before. I hope that drive is enough to get him a delegate.

  • (((( Critical*Mass ))))

  • PRAYER FOR AMERICA....the Controversial Video from Mysterious CATMAN COHEN

    "Steal a TV or car and face hard time in prison. However, steal millions in undeserved salary bonuses and stock option grants and never spend a day in jail because there are no significant repercussions for criminals with white collars and expensive attorneys. Such is the state of justice today, which is to say, no justice at all...and people wonder why our youth have become so hard and cynical?"

  • PRAYER FOR AMERICA....the Controversial Video from Mysterious CATMAN COHEN

    "I no longer pay much attention to the names of politicians who allegedly govern us but I do know the names of our secret royalty, the respective chairmen and presidents of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Rothschild, and Warburg."

  • Gravel is not running to be just another President. I don't know if I can't help being optimistic, but, we have about 8 months and Mike's message has a great chance of getting through, considering who he is running against; two corporate puppets ! Regardless of the outcome of 2008, Gravel will shine on!

    Peace.

  • This video is #68 most viewed in News & Politics!

    We need to get it up to at least 60 to be on the front 5 pages in the section.

    Every time you view, post a comment saying so.

    I will send 2 dozen of the best chocolate chip cookies you ever had to the person who pushes up the view count the most as indicated by the comments.

  • Gravel Kucinich Paul Nader

    The truth is powerful:

    "Carrots"

    "Sticks"

    "Coercive Diplomacy"

  • Great video!

    ~ Mike Gravel - the last honest man in America ~

  • Word!

    why have you been marked as "spam"????

  • The Paulbots are out again.

  • Bundlers' ONLY-needed pitch: "You scratch MY back, I'LL SEE TO IT, you get YOURS scratched TOO!!!"

  • Did I miss a Mike Gravel speech saying he drops out? Not being on the ballot is a travesty.

  • No, he never dropped out. He is being censored by corporatist media. It's illegal.

    Boycott multinational corporations and banks or be enslaved to them for eternity.

  • Help enact the National Initiative.

    Get the people to abolish Corporate Personhood!

  • Favorited, 5 stars, and featured on my profile page.

  • This video is #68 most viewed in News & Politics!

    We need to get it up to at least 60 to be on the front 5 pages in the section.

    Every time you view, post a comment saying so.

    I will send 2 dozen of the best chocolate chip cookies you ever had to the person who pushes up the view count the most as indicated by the comments.

  • im disappointed he wasn't on the ballot in illinois for super tuesday :(

  • Hellary sux

  • This election is being spun away from you.

    (insert sadness)

    I dont claim to understand the whole delegate concept, but are you going to run as an independent if as it seems, you are not chosen?

  • You're the man!

  • great job. Mr. Gravel I'm in contact with my board of elections, they didn't list you here in New York but many people voted for you. I will let you know the numbers as soon as I get them

  • i support you. i want to do more. people need to be aware of more resources that they have so we would be aware of more options that we the people have. even if u are not elected please keep informing the people and do what u are doing. u are bringing back hope o me and im sure other people that there are still government officials still for the people. thanks you and keep hopes alive.

  • I think the corporations were behind the government is incompetent and inefficient propaganda for the last 21 years. This drove good people out of government service. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now, the corporations have control of government. The next agenda they are working on is dissolving national sovreignty. Hopefully, some of the Ron Paul supporters will wake up and realize that their candidate is really Mike Gravel, not the Trojan Horse, Ron Paul.

  • Exactly!

    Who will fear clowns and baffoons?

    This entire election cycle is the half naked women in the sparkly costume...so wtf kind of slieght of hand is going on while we watch the distraction?

  • I think McCain was the Repubs nominee all along. It's a similar hoax with Democrats. It's remarkable that just because people are given a choice (Obama or Hillary), they seem to think it's the same thing as democracy. It's not and they weren't really given the choice at all or, for example, Mike Gravel would have remained in the debates instead of being excluded. Picking either Hillary or Obama is picking more of the same. It's a shell game. Those two shells are empty.