"Fair" Tax is regressive by the usual definition. Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea it is.
Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear- that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
Think this through to see why the "embedded taxes" argument is false-- if one considers TAXES as embedded in the price item (rather than seeing them as something paid at DIFFERENT RATES by workers from emb. WAGES), If you state prices with tax will basically not rise because of "emb. taxes" removal-- thus your takehome pay stays the SAME as now--how are "illegals" paying taxes? Your check is the same, items cost same.
Answer: YOU are still paying, and MORE, by your paycheck staying the same.
Again, there is no debate if one accepts Fair Tax org's own research-- under this horrible tax, those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay more federal taxes than they do now, and those making more than $150,000 would pay less. See tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see the egregious fudging they do to try and make it seem that the middleclasses would be better off paying more in taxes. Also see Table 5 to see who reaps the rewards.
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no losers with the FairTax.
This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one to ask the government to give them everything.
Im a democrat and for years i believed that we need to cut or eliminate all income taxes and put them on indirect taxing. But finally Fair-Tax has a full plan. And progressive to make it appeal to democrats like me. I
Thank you for posting. Too many people state the FairTax is a Republican thing only and that is simple false. Yes more Republicans support it in the House and Senate....but the FairTax would help push their agenda even more. Untaxing the poor and giving the middle class much needed tax release.
Do you contact fellow Democrats about this or are you verbal among your friends and family?
We need all the help we can get from as many people as possible....please do all you can!! Thank you
Great job, brother! I'd thought about answering the same dumb question in video format myself, but you beat me to the punch! I too have the same "people" on my banned list for the same reason..."page 148"...and to cphine: the 23% also includes all other embedded federal taxes...on inventory, capital equipment asset value, the income withholding match on SSI/Medicare/Medicaid, raw materials, office supplies, etc. Truly glorious on the day of passage, indeed. FairTax NOW!
BritBoy, Keep 'em comin' ! There are no true legitimate arguments against the Fair Tax. Folks need to type in "Fair Tax: how does it compare?" in their search boxes and check out Fair Tax vs income tax vs flat tax.
He's got a couple more now, he's beenspamming a video of mine... cuz he's a tard like that.
he has 'bullshipdetector' 'iowasea' 'NavyBeer' 'LiarBoortz' and last but not least 'peoplelieabouttaxes'
he really needs to get a life rather than just trolling youtube and spamming the same boring overused shit out there.
then commenting with all 10 of his differant accounts to make it look like poeple agree with him... but i guess when you a looser like him you need to 'make up' friends.
All have been blocked. This video is really a place for a) people to see our response to the dumb questions and b) to get his list of names and block them.
Yeah no problem... I'll add any more i find as well...
I have no problem with someone elses opinion... but he just spams the hell out of anythign having to do with fairtax, and then if you try and debate with him, he either a. starts throwing random insults out there or b. just spams the same tired crap over and over, while trying to insult you
I agree, I'm all open for debate (hence the videos) but he is not open for debate....its just name calling and the same thing over and over. Attention seeking....so his names are blocked until he gives a good question to answer.
I'm a renter and a Soc. Sec. recipient. Good heavens, I can see Fair Tax benefits for me, as well as for folks in all kinds of various economic situations. Win/win for all, except the lobbyists and politicians that manipulate federal income taxes. Ah, but even they would come to appreciate it; and they are the small minority in our population. They'll continue to thrive.
Thanks for the listing of other names this guy uses.
There is one thing I want to explain briefly from one supporter to another...
The "price wash" theory is inaccurate. For prices to drop the entire 23%, the employer would have to continue to pay a person their current net income as their new gross and keep the difference to drop prices. Art Laffer suggests price drops in the 12% range with the FairTax added to that. Prices are a bit higher, but we have an increase in take home pay.
Your employer pays a portion of the taxes and then pays you the other portion for you to pay from your paycheck. So if the employer doesn't have to pay it, neither do you. It then goes back to the employer.
Since your lunatic tax can't possible be 23% --- we don't have to deal with the pretence of all prices falling 23%.
If the tax rate is 50 or 60% -- even you idiots see that it wouldnt work, it wouldn't bring in enough. People would just not but as much stuff -- especially big stuff -- if tax rate wa 50% or higher.
ANd the only reason you morons can even pretend its 23% - is because of your bullshit that you will jut make the government be a MAJOR taxpayer.
This has been flagged as spam show
"Fair" Tax is regressive by the usual definition. Here is the quote from one of the Beacon Hill treatises on the AFT site:
"The key result of the foregoing discussion is that it matters fundamentally how one frames the discussion of the distributional effects of the FairTax. When people are sorted by expenditure per capita, the FairTax is progressive; when they are sorted by income per capita, it is regressive."
Those who undertand what this means now understand what a bad idea it is.
FairTaxKillsMiddle 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Read tiny url 593htl . It is a link to supporters' own research. The important part to read is page 30 on, "Appendix: Households’ Well-Being under the FairTax", in which they clearly state that according to their research those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay MORE in taxes under the "Fair" Tax than now. They try and fudge around this with what they call "income mobility", however Table 13 makes it clear- that mobility is into poverty-- and they call that a positive.
FairTaxisaLie 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Think this through to see why the "embedded taxes" argument is false-- if one considers TAXES as embedded in the price item (rather than seeing them as something paid at DIFFERENT RATES by workers from emb. WAGES), If you state prices with tax will basically not rise because of "emb. taxes" removal-- thus your takehome pay stays the SAME as now--how are "illegals" paying taxes? Your check is the same, items cost same.
Answer: YOU are still paying, and MORE, by your paycheck staying the same.
1969was1969 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Again, there is no debate if one accepts Fair Tax org's own research-- under this horrible tax, those making from $15,000 to $150,000 a year would on average pay more federal taxes than they do now, and those making more than $150,000 would pay less. See tinyurl 593htl, page 30 on, particularly Table 13 years 7-8 and 15-16 to see the egregious fudging they do to try and make it seem that the middleclasses would be better off paying more in taxes. Also see Table 5 to see who reaps the rewards.
1969was1969 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The FairTax will raise the standard of living for all current tax payers. The amount we each pay will DROP because MORE people will be paying the total revenue neutral amount, including illegals and criminals. Also, prices will likely drop because companies will no longer need to pay tax experts and lawyers. This "compliance cost" right now amounts to $900 per person on average. Granted, SOME? people will benefit more than others, but there will be no losers with the FairTax.
urgener 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This point is not debateable, as it is in SUPPORTERS' own research:
under the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-Inclusive aka NASTI, those making from about $15k to $150k a year would pay MOREin federal taxes than they do now, and those making over $150k would pay less than they do now. Do we really want to RAISE THE TAXES of the middle classes so we can LOWER the already very low taxes of the wealthy? This tax is NASTI, and a very bad idea.
Diskatop 8 months ago
4 ItchMyFoot and his 35 other youtube aliases
What is the difference between you buying yourself a loaf of bread and your state buying one for you? Besides the fact that you pay the government to buy the loaf of bread, nothing. You consume it either way, and both you and the state currently pay the embedded cost of income capital gain, corporate income and other taxes.
Exempting government consumption will cause every one to ask the government to give them everything.
dtvgmedia 11 months ago
@PipeManChuck Ummm, you need to be more specific as to why you think this.
I say that because top economists say otherwise.
BritBoyProductions 1 year ago 2
Im a democrat and for years i believed that we need to cut or eliminate all income taxes and put them on indirect taxing. But finally Fair-Tax has a full plan. And progressive to make it appeal to democrats like me. I
bradensmagic 2 years ago
Thank you for posting. Too many people state the FairTax is a Republican thing only and that is simple false. Yes more Republicans support it in the House and Senate....but the FairTax would help push their agenda even more. Untaxing the poor and giving the middle class much needed tax release.
Do you contact fellow Democrats about this or are you verbal among your friends and family?
We need all the help we can get from as many people as possible....please do all you can!! Thank you
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Great job, brother! I'd thought about answering the same dumb question in video format myself, but you beat me to the punch! I too have the same "people" on my banned list for the same reason..."page 148"...and to cphine: the 23% also includes all other embedded federal taxes...on inventory, capital equipment asset value, the income withholding match on SSI/Medicare/Medicaid, raw materials, office supplies, etc. Truly glorious on the day of passage, indeed. FairTax NOW!
dennis317 2 years ago 2
By all means make the video you were going to, worse case more people see it and understand this individual has no basis for his comments.
We've answered them, yet he won't budge or take onboard what we've said.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
and, as it comes to pass, he has come out with a new name, ItchMyFoot...what he doesn't realize is that he is a foot itch to us...
dennis317 2 years ago
BritBoy, Keep 'em comin' ! There are no true legitimate arguments against the Fair Tax. Folks need to type in "Fair Tax: how does it compare?" in their search boxes and check out Fair Tax vs income tax vs flat tax.
ziglet2008 2 years ago
Thank you :)
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
He's got a couple more now, he's beenspamming a video of mine... cuz he's a tard like that.
he has 'bullshipdetector' 'iowasea' 'NavyBeer' 'LiarBoortz' and last but not least 'peoplelieabouttaxes'
he really needs to get a life rather than just trolling youtube and spamming the same boring overused shit out there.
then commenting with all 10 of his differant accounts to make it look like poeple agree with him... but i guess when you a looser like him you need to 'make up' friends.
thehairyhungarian 2 years ago
All have been blocked. This video is really a place for a) people to see our response to the dumb questions and b) to get his list of names and block them.
Thanks for adding to it :)
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Yeah no problem... I'll add any more i find as well...
I have no problem with someone elses opinion... but he just spams the hell out of anythign having to do with fairtax, and then if you try and debate with him, he either a. starts throwing random insults out there or b. just spams the same tired crap over and over, while trying to insult you
nothing you don't know...
thehairyhungarian 2 years ago
I agree, I'm all open for debate (hence the videos) but he is not open for debate....its just name calling and the same thing over and over. Attention seeking....so his names are blocked until he gives a good question to answer.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Well.....let the renters, the patients, the government and indeed all consumers read the bill and learn about it.
Those who have....they like it!
Actually thats an idea for a video....showing FairTax people telling the masses about it and getting their reactions!!
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Oh wait thats already been done...those videos are all over youtube....and the majority who know about it seem to like it.
DARN!!
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
I'm a renter and a Soc. Sec. recipient. Good heavens, I can see Fair Tax benefits for me, as well as for folks in all kinds of various economic situations. Win/win for all, except the lobbyists and politicians that manipulate federal income taxes. Ah, but even they would come to appreciate it; and they are the small minority in our population. They'll continue to thrive.
ziglet2008 2 years ago
Yes its a wash. Embedded taxes are removed and then a visible tax in its place.
So we're paying no more for items, yet keeping more of our pay checks.
The only tax our employers cover a portion of is the payroll tax.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Thanks for the listing of other names this guy uses.
There is one thing I want to explain briefly from one supporter to another...
The "price wash" theory is inaccurate. For prices to drop the entire 23%, the employer would have to continue to pay a person their current net income as their new gross and keep the difference to drop prices. Art Laffer suggests price drops in the 12% range with the FairTax added to that. Prices are a bit higher, but we have an increase in take home pay.
cphine 2 years ago
And in all probability, the prices would probably drop eventually as the Fair Tax works itself out. Oh, glorious day when the Fair Tax is passed!
ziglet2008 2 years ago
I guess we'll have to contact YouTube and have them delete all of your accounts and ban you permanently.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago 2
About prices all falling -- you need to read Neil Boortz own clarification about it, in Free Republic.
Neil admits that for prices to fall - -ALL of us, each one, has to donate back to our employer what we (supposedly) saved in taxes.
That's right - in the fine print - even Boortz admits the prices won't fall -- unless we all donate our tax savings back to our employer.
So your bullshit is to donate our savings back -- then pay the world's highest sale tax. Lunacy. Pure bullhit.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
Your employer pays a portion of the taxes and then pays you the other portion for you to pay from your paycheck. So if the employer doesn't have to pay it, neither do you. It then goes back to the employer.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Since your lunatic tax can't possible be 23% --- we don't have to deal with the pretence of all prices falling 23%.
If the tax rate is 50 or 60% -- even you idiots see that it wouldnt work, it wouldn't bring in enough. People would just not but as much stuff -- especially big stuff -- if tax rate wa 50% or higher.
ANd the only reason you morons can even pretend its 23% - is because of your bullshit that you will jut make the government be a MAJOR taxpayer.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
*sigh* You're an idiot.
I'm sorry but its plain and simple, you are an idiot.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
Great video Tony. So easy most idiots can understand. 5 Stars!
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago
2nd video already up!!!
They're simple and to the point, but then everyone can see the answers to even the stupidiest of questions. No matter how many times they're asked.
BritBoyProductions 2 years ago
I see he's back again under yet another name. I'm going to contact YouTube and see if we can have his accounts deleted and ban him permanently.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago