Super SF2 Turbo Intermediate Tutorial by David Sirlin

[BrawlYoshi]

Can you do tutorials on other games? I have a million fighting games and I'm trying to play more seriously.

And the mispronunciation of Ryu shows that you have been playing since '91.

[djohnson87]

you have the worst voice ever. so dull.

[roccoownzu2]

Ryu can cancel dragon punch to super fireball, I think Ken can cancel his uppercuts too, but it's not all that useful for this game IMO. Much more useful for SSFIV though.

[clrndalvare]

So throw beats meaty attacks on wakeup? I didn't know ... that sounds so gay ...

[XxGonixXFAN]

I tried for months trying to figure out how to do the 2 in 1's(this was last year). Then I watched this and felt stupid over how easy it is. No matter how good you are, David Sirlin can always teach you something

[VideoQuestEx]

I knew some of the info from before, other bits of info I had no idea about.

Cool vid!

[sitbaknblaze]

Jump in mk aimed at torso then hp immediantly hold down then drop in the flash kick, try that

[DrakoShred921]

at 0:35, how is it possible to cancel guiles standing fierce punch into a flash kick. You have to hold down to flask kick, but the previous move requires that you stand up. can some one explain to me?

[Moonblood00]

Isn't Bisons medium-K cross-up always supposed to be blocked by holding back?

With the LK version being blocked by holding the other direction?

[songoku350]

I call Ryu (Ree-you) cause its the correct pronunciation but those taking time to complain about how someone says a video game characters name should really question their life and what they have done so far.

[TwighlightMist]

the announcer says his name that way, I guess Rai-you is the western name

[strikerk]

Western as in 'wrong'? Yes.

[avernales123]

wats up with this pronunciation crap?

[jspeed1988]

@ millgiass, its not because of american ignorance. its to do with how the english language works. people see the name "ryu" are going to say it how they would say similar words in the english language, they arnt gonna be like "LOL, THIS GAME IS JAPANESE RITE? MAYBE IM SAYIN IT WRONG, I'LL GO CHECK!!!". while masterbating furiously when they find out everyone else is wrong.

p.s. ur a dumbass.

[ballrawg]

gettin mad at the internet ITT

[eae314]

Street Fighter 2 has an ingame announcer, who pronounces the names correctly. Honestly I can't understand how americans can still get it wrong after 10 years of playing the game and hearing the announcer say "Ryu wins!"...

[bjmensz]

hey, smarty pants, street fighter 2 SUPER TURBO has an announcer who pronounces the characters names. Street Fighter 2's old announcer who was in the game until The New Challengers (I think?) didn't say character's names, so us poor baka gaijin had to guess name pronunciations in absence of an all-knowing internet. And when you learn a name, even a wrong name, it sticks, especially when everyone else around you is using it too.

fuckin kids, I swear grumblegrumble

[eae314]

Ah, that explains everything. My first Street Fighter was Super and if I remember correctly it already had the announcer. When I first heard someone read Ryu's name RAIU (and I think it was in the Street Fighter movie) I was completey astonished

[encostello]

I don't think anyone gives a shit, dude. Get a life.

[eae314]

That's easier said than done :D

[SolidSnakeRules]

true :(

[shadowchemist2]

just to let you guys know. I negged all of you

[Nazeem38]

i think chun-li has the best and easiest combos to maneuver.

[millgiass]

The only thing it "Shows" is your ignorance. I started from the start of SF and I corrected myself when I found out I was wrong.

And it isn't a sign of crap. I'm sure if Americans even in 2009 picked up a street fighter game before they added the voice they'd still pronounce it wrong. It's American ignorance and nothing more.

[millgiass]

If you mean recently as in THE EARLY 90'S! Every single game that calls the character by name has ALWAYS said "Re-you"

Rai-oo is, and always has been, a mispronunciation committed by the ignorant.

I'm as old school as you can get with street fighter. I called him Rai-oo when I was a little kid. But as soon as I got educated and knew I was wrong I stopped pronouncing it like an idiot hick.

Street Fighter Alpha was the first series in which they called him Re-you, it was also the first vocal.

[millgiass]

Basicly correcting an error in speech. I played street fighter ever since it was a freaking pad based arcade game and then on the genesis and then on the PS-PS2-PSP-PS3. I haven't made that verbal mistake ever since I was in middle school. I'd expect a tourney player and producer of a street fighter game to get it freaking right! So don't go acting like he's right, because he isn't and neither are you.

[Merknilash]

You're raging over something silly and it makes you look like an idiot.

[hyogaiceheart]

yup absolutely right, its "re-you" no matter what anyone says. but think about this, when people say "karate". the real pronounciation is "ka-ra-tay", but does anyone use it? nope they say "ka-ra-tee." ignorance is bliss.

[Graphic36]

You sound like a complete nerd, millgiass.

Who gives a fuck what people call the characters.

[millgiass]

People with respect for the characters and or the language in which they originate from.

[Graphic36]

"Respect" for the characters? Grow up, that's not something to get your panties in a bunch over. Not everyone is a Japanophile who takes videogame and anime characters as seriously as you do or has time to waste perfecting their pronunciation of Japanese proper nouns, because we can't all be geeky 15-year-old know-it-alls.

[millgiass]

15 year old know it all eh? First of all I'd have to be older than that to be around and playing games at the dawn of street fighter. You're just oozing with stupidity. No wonder you make comments defending being a dumb-ass.

[steveismean]

Laugh. ZOMG EVERYTHING IN THE VIDEO IS INVALID BECAUSE HE MISPRONOUNCES 'RYU' IN IT!

Yes, he pronounced it wrong in the video.

Yes, millgiass looks stupid for getting uptight about it.

Yes, Graphic36 and hoptop77 look stupid for fighting with him about it.

Lots of stupid to go around. And I look stupid for adding my two cents. Hell, free round of stupid for everyone, on me!

[jbriggs06]

Sure I take Japanese and can say it all correctly but lets face it WHO GIVES A FUCK!!! 90% of just about every country pronounce other languages names wrong. Technically since we are speaking English there are saying it grammatically correct.

[ephekt420]

@millgiass

More like otaku faggots

[rocknflip66]

Thanks David for clarifying about being cheap in 4:14. For the fact they put "throws'' in the game to further your pressure/wall game or to get out of a situation. You also need to learn how to recover from throws. That's how raw SF2 is, no air blocks, no parry system, air combos, etc..

[StaticFalconar]

As good as all this is; id be even better if Sirlin told us some tactics on how to get out of things like cross ups. Putting vids like this up will only degenerate the game down to who is the first to do a cross up, if nobody knows how to counter it.

[mikeNanna]

its all about the frames

[Skkra]

When someone says something is "cheap," what they REALLY mean is "I'm frustrated that you beat me with a tactic I could not counter."  These are never high level players anyways, because they'd rather complain and not learn than to discover the solution to their problem.

If a game is REALLY so "broken" that there is one unstoppable, overpowering tactic that has no counter, then that game is not worth playing anyways, so go find another game.

[Dyne]

Well said.

[ElFuzzinator]

@Skkra as stupid as i already know it is to engage in an "argument" on the internet. i do not discount that using a tactic most will consider "cheap" is effective in competitve, i believe the majority of where atleast i hear cheap used is when you and your friend are playing a game to just have fun. in my example, im absolutly horrible, my one friend is absolutly amazing. he could use a "cheap tactic" to beat me, but wheres the fun in that? :)

[ephekt420]

@ElFuzzinator

If you suck he can use any tactic to beat you, so why do you care how you lose? Using gimmicks can be fun.

[XxGonixXFAN]

@Skkra There was a move that people who used Akuma did that was basically unbreakable ... Let's say your in a corner and akuma does a air haduken, if he times it perfectly and falls at the right time he can just get up and do another one that will leave you utterly useless in the corner. So now going by what you said, you said that if that tactic has no counter then super street fighter 2 turbo is not worth playing .. That's why there were tournaments for years of that game, owned much? :/

[ephekt420]

@XxGonixXFAN

Akuma is banned in tournament play. If you did more than play online you might know that. 

[godverdegodverdomme]

@Skkra Or they could mean " I'm frustrated that you beat me with

a tactic I should have countered, because I am easily able to".

But you know how it goes, occasionally shit can and will hit the fan.

Let's face it, no one likes to lose.. But I have no problems with being

defeated after a good (clean) fight, that is all :}

[Thargh]

Okay, about the "don't worry about being cheap" I disagree with this statement to begin with, but what exactly does he mean by "improving"?

[MoxManiac]

Because if you impose imaginary rules on yourself when you play (and making a decision not to be "cheap" is an example of one), you are putting yourself at a disadvantage right away. Learning to play Super Turbo means knowing all the different tactics, and being able to either capitalize on using them or learning to counter them. If your opponent lacks the skill or knowledge to escape or counter a "cheap" tactic, it's that lack of skill on his part that is what caused him to lose to it.

[Thargh]

Thanks.

There is a bit too much confusing on what cheap is. The amount of people finding throws cheap is very low. Cheap is something else, that I hope isn't present in SF.

[StupidIsAsHumanDoes]

The only thing I can think of that is actually cheap is using Akuma/Gouki.

[Thargh]

I have no examples of cheap in SF, since I haven't played that game for long.

[guitarninja83]

The only thing cheap in fighting games are infinite combos, which are moves that usually rely on very little skill and are one technique repeated until the round is over. They offer no counter or escape window and stem from a broken game mechanic or screwy frame advantage.

[Thargh]

Yeah. If you take online delay into account however, a lot is cheap. I understand the game should only be played competitively offline, and that's why people don't bother, but it could be changed if people stopped doing these things.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@MoxManiac Deciding not to play 'cheap' comes from the want to experience

a worthy fight that is interesting all the way.

When people abuse the same boring tactics over and over again, you are

basically forced to play like a robot, using a fixed script rather then using

your skill and imagination to come up with solutions on the spot, and destroys

the fun of a fantastic fighter in my opinion.

Skill is not all about winning.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Your argument is silly. So-called cheap tactics often take skill (infinite or retrap combos in MvC2 for example), the scrub simply refuses to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit into his arbitrary vision of how the game ought to be played (which inevitably precludes tactics you're incapable of defending against). Furthermore, these are strategy games. Imagination and creativity only matter if they impart tactical advantage.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Infinite combo's are easy to pull off, yes it takes training

to learn them, but after that it becomes a matter of ' who get's hits first loses',

and that's what I call a good example of a cheap tactic.

A good fight is about improvising with what you know, and can pull off,

not relying on a fixed repetoire of moves.

When I expect a decent fight, and some asswipe decides to Shoryuken

all the way through the match, and I see that jackass ' win' accidentally,

it's not a win in my book.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

You've obviously never played Marvel at any decent level. Infinites are more about positioning than damage, since most get hit hard by damage scaling. In fact, most require resets (which are escapable) to be useful in match.

Your definition of "good" is arbitrary and has nothing to do with winning. If you're improvising you're not playing the strat/mind games. You're just mashing shit out.

If you lose to random srks it's your own fault and you server it.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 True, I never played Marvel at high level.

But there are a plethora of fighting games, to which I have

learnt and fully mastered each and every move/combo.

So I assume you can at least see where I am coming from,

I'm not the random scrub you would encounter on regular basis,

I put efford into my fights, trying not to get repetitive and boring.

But when people start to seek the ' exploits' of characters,

and play only to win, and not to play, that's where the game is ruined

for me.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

The game only knows winning or losing; it doesn't care about honor or creativity. Employing exploits of your character and your opponent's ability is how games of strategy are won. if this ruins the experience for you, perhaps you are playing the wrong games or players.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Perhaps those are the wrong players to play against,

since I have been playing fighting games since I was 8, and I enjoy

putting efford into them to master all moves, and watch myself improve

against an increasingly difficult A.I. or comrades that happen to play

the game as well.

Used to have a lot of fun with Mortal Kombat games, Soulblade and up,

and even Rival Schools, alongside Street Fighter 2, Killer Instinct, etc etc :P

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 " If you're improvising you're not playing the strat/mind games. You're just mashing shit out. "

This is simply not true, when you improvise you still play according

to strat/mind games, they are just not ' programmed' into your head,

or ' copied' from other players, and you have more then one fixed

manner of retaliation against every fixed move an opponent could

throw towards you.

Improvising is all about freely setting up an attack string with

intention to diverge and hit.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

That was poorly worded due to character limits. What I meant was that for a given situation, there is likely to only be an A, B or C. "Creativity" is overrated in relation to fighting games since there will typically be one or very few objectively superior options. Creativity is for flash, not strategy; boring and reliable is what wins in competitive situation. I could expand, but Sirlin's Yomi article explains it far better than I have room for here.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

The most effective way to win any strategy game is to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. If I notice you can't tech throws or hit anti airs consistently, then I'm going to exploit that.  If you don't like losing to the same tactic over and over, then learn to defend against it. That's the only way you get better. Creating arbitrary rules only forces you to limit your own ability. Have fun if that's the way you want to play, but try to force others into your style

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Well ofcourse it is good to read your opponents during battle,

and acting on what you learn from their strategic stance, but there are always

these character matchups you basically can't win, and players will abuse it

most of the time.

And then there are those annoying tricks to render you unable to stand up

and retaliate, because their timing is so perfect it locks you up in something

similar to an infinite combo.

Might as well drop your joypad at that point.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Can you give me examples of these? I can think of very few examples where a single hit will result in a loss of the entire match.

Furthermore, since this is an ST video, can you give me an example from this game? All I can think of are throw loops, but those don't last an entire match.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Well what they do is something like this;

They work you on the ground with a kick or whatever works,

then as you are about to stand up, they have worked themselves

behind you to you face the wrong direction, then they can get you

down again, and they wriggle their way to your other side using little

tricks to keep you facing the direction they want you to face (locking your model)

They can keep doing this basically for the entire match, or until there's

no hope left to win.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@godverdegodverdomme *behind you so you face

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Uh... you mean a cross up? You can block those, you just have to guess right. 50/50s aren't terribly uncommon in fighting games.  Even basic high/low guessing games are prevalent in most popular fighters.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Those are called cross ups ?

In my experience there was no way to escape from those,

no matter what you press you cannot get your character to react in time

before getting kicked, tackled again.

When you see someone jumping over you, you want to turn around

and defend, but when your model is kept busy by let's say a quick hit,

or well timed projectile, the opponent can get behind you before you can

turn around, thus granting them a free opening.

This can be done continuously.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 The common guess game in fighting games is

the high/low hit thing, but that can mostly be cancelled/blocked out

by staying on your game, and automatically defending against all directions

your opponent could come in from (ofcourse not when standing in front of

a character).

What I mean is deliberately confusing the controls of the other playing,

or timing a knockdown string so well, it becomes virtually impossible to

recover from.

And if you do recover, you're basically dead anyhow.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Right. It sounds like you're talking about cross ups. You basically hit them in such a way that they have to guess which direction to block, and you can vary it. For example, I'm Ryu and get a kd, then jump in with hk. Depending on how I jump in, it can hit from the front or back, so you may have to block normally or block the 'wrong' way. That's a basic 50/50. I guess you'd have to give me a specific example if that's not what you're talking about.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 No that pretty much explains what I mean,

when that cross up process is repeated over and over again during

a match, it may not be impossible, but will we extremely annoying to

recover from, and when you do there's a very high chance you have

been hit a good amount of times already, rendering you half-dead or

worse.

It is really an honorable way to just keep doing this, until your opponent

is finished ? When it becomes a guessing game, where does that leave

strategy ?

[godverdegodverdomme]

@godverdegodverdomme darn typo's *but will be extremely

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Cross ups aren't guaranteed and can be avoided with reversals or dashes in other games. You seem to be ignoring one key factor: they only work if you get kded, so a mistake put you in the situation.

Honorable as defined by who? The game knows nothing of honor. If you opponent can't block correctly, why wouldn't you exploit that?

Fighting games are full of guessing game... It's part of the strategy. You should be trying to avoid that situation.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 But wouldn't that be a bit like demanding someone be psychic ?

A mistake on one's part isn't necessarily due to lack of knowledge and/or practise

within the game, at least that is how I experience and see it.

Despite of what I can do, it seems to be nearly impossible to not get into these

situations, or get out while 'ensnared'.

Perhaps it is just me, but I feel that you should give your opponent a decent chance to recover and fight back after you got in a few good hits.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

If you don't know when a kd is coming, it's your fault. If you can't get out of a cross up, it's your fault. You can reversal, dash, parry, focus attack etc, depending on the game. I've NEVER seen a match where cross ups were done over and over. It simply doesn't happen.

Your arbitrary code of conduct shouldn't be anyone else's problem. I submit that if you don't enjoy this aspect of fighting games, you restrict yourself to play with like minded players.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Perhaps some games have a worse case of cross ups

then others, I find them especially irritating in SFIV.

But I am surprised you never saw a match where cross ups got abused.

They are not exactly a rare sight to behold, as double K.O.'s would be.

Perhaps you're getting the idea I am trying to press my views on other

players ? That's not the case at all, I'm just having a little chit chat here

about something most here have in common, a liking towards fighting games.

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

Fair enough on the pressing issue. You can hold a decent conversation so you're OK in my book anyway.

I find my self disinterested in SF4, but I played up to G1 in vanilla. Cross ups are common, but not something that dominates matches in my experience. Try bating kds and FADCing out of them... it works. You can also use the "partitioned" dash (search SRK) to escape, or in some situations a simple back dash.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 After all, I'm just spilling some beans on how I experience

certain aspects, and sharing some critique towards playing styles and strategies, rather then posing as a high priest to preach how ALL should play this and that game. As you suggest I have been playing like minded players and I must say (at least to me) it is far more interesting to see a fight where

2 characters use their full potential to try and be victorious, creating what you

may call ' ballet-fighting' of sorts :P

[ephekt420]

@godverdegodverdomme

FADC out of the cross up, I mean.  You can also get away with late reversals in a lot of cases... just delay it a tiny bit and the game will switch your direction. Sometimes you can actually hit them or at least trade. Either way, it's better than eating a combo.

[godverdegodverdomme]

@ephekt420 Well, it has been a while since I was really into my game,

the only occasion I get in training competitively is on my mates 'high-end' pc,

and unfortunately he isn't as much into SF as I personally am, and I have

a different kind of way to train myself (which is really more suited for one player).

And even back then, I just didn't have enough training under my belt to really

compete and be able to win frequently.

But given enough time, and space, I could come far.

I main Dhal :}

[qwasdninja]

static; yes it does. Unless your oponent is a complete moron that is.

I dont really get the mentality of the average scrub... why wouldnt i use tactics that maximizes my chances of winning? Its like not using your queen in chess, "because its cheap!". Give me a break.

[Rodlikespants]

yeah, it gets worse when people complain about being thrown. It's actually the same thing as complaining if your opponent uses "rock" in RPS.

[static240]

cuz hadoken spam takes skill pfffft

[StupidIsAsHumanDoes]

I just want to say, they are only "spamming" fireballs because you don't know how to get around them.

[marvelousgamer]

LOL @terani you're a scrub so please shut the fuck up.

The person with the better skills is the person who wins and being cheap means using the game's most powerful tactics.

How do you expect sf4 to "change the equation"? Fighting games are about winning and the more skilled and better player is the one who will do anything to win period.

[millgiass]

You sound like Akuma.

[Tehrani72]

view 4min:14sec . "don't worry about being cheap" This is the Credo of the Street Fighter Universe.... combat mechanics since 1991 have been setup to see who IS the Cheapest Player. Street Fighter has never been who has better skills but rather who has the better Reflexes to Cheap Opponents. it makes me sick. i hope sf4 changes the equation.

[paulhindt]

I going to ride this video all the way to victory. :D

[hitokirii]

great editing, and very informative! many thanks for your insight

[ZhangHe2369]

st honda's jab head butt is invincible on start up.

[DandyDLC]

it is invincible at startup, yes

[forestsavior]

Does anyone know if Honda's jab headbutt is really invincible on startup, or did Sirlin just cite it because of its insane priority?