I suspect that the researchers who tested the effectiveness of prayer did not fully understand what they were testing. If they viewed it as a kind of "Dear Santa" letter to God, then unanswered prayers would suggest that prayer is a waste of time. But what if prayer is not about asking God for stuff? What if its positive effects can't be easily perceived or measured? If we bow to God in prayer, then we'll be less likely to bow to drugs, lust, greed and vanity. This is what prayer is about.
The Journal of Clinical Epidemiology published a review of the research on the palcebo effect that seems to indicate that it is a myth. I've also never heard of a physiological study or explanation for whether particular supposed placebo effects are possible.
Where is the DJ from? He has an accent I can't place. Ireland?
In regards to adorianvlad's comments about the Moon Landing being hoax theory: it's only a hoax theory if it's not proven. If proven, it's a conspiracy. 3 months before they supposedly landed on the moon, Neil lost contol of a lunar landing modul, I believe it was, in a dead calm at Area 51. And pics of 2 supposed locations where he walked had exactly the same rocks on the side of the hill. There are to many inconsistancies in it.
Regarding the Moon Landing stuff, I would leave it here, it doesn't affect me either way, it would had been nice to have the truth about such an important aspect but I guess
politics its more important here than the truth. I don't care about the photos, they can be faked by anyone, its just that since
70's there were no other attemps for aselenization, that is what is dubious.
And pshychic abilites have been proven, both in the lab & out. I have friends who can back up the abilities that I have. I'm not bragging; in fact, because of it, I live out in the country. Too many people in one area iverloads my senses, & I shut down. Stanford did resaearch in the late '60's & early '70's on all kinds of thing, phsychic abilities included. I was one of their test subjects, although I wasn't completely aware of it at the time. When folks still say the world is flat...
Exactly, this issue is kind of making me a bit skeptical about the very existence of the telepathic abilities; as such, our 5 senses may be themselves more "sensitised" when paying more attention to the "sensitivity" of our senses, right? For example, even the sense of pheromones, or the sense of the adrenaline or other "hormones of fear", in other words when becoming more aware of our 5 senses we may get a feeling that actually we have ESP; so the range of our perception increases (we can smell
from a further distance than the average person, or see or hear at further distances,
and it may give us a feeling that we have a 6-th sense. I think its good to consider this.
Regarding your participation at Stanford, its great to hear we have here in this topic a "real participant" to such experiments. Regarding the blind person taking enhancing drugs, such as acid, its emphasizing my point I've made in my last comment, can increase our sensory perception when taking certain substances.
Well then you should pick up your million dollars from the Amazing Randi, he's had the prize money available for decades to anyone who can prove psychic abilities!
Let me know how it goes, I'd love to be the first to interview you when you have the money! :)
I bet 5150bythenight woudn't stand a chance taking the so called "tests" of Amazing Randi or any other "clowns".
I am watching now this video:
"Science and the taboo of psi" with Dean Radin
watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew from googletechtalks
Jan 18 2008
Speaker: Dean Radin
Dean Radin is a researcher and author in the field of parapsychology. He is Senior Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences and four-time former President of the Parapsychological Association
don't get me wrong. The Amazing Randi is great at finding crooks like the spoonbenders, or those "talking to the dead", but he does a modes job when dealing with the genuine ones.
1)People with such a command of psychic powers would not need to do his challenge to make money, and for safety they wouldn't want to be discovered at all
2)Certain spiritual forces may prevent spirit from being proven and understood en masse, in order to not interfere with the purpose of the need to search for and self-discover such abilities.
3)There is plenty of evidence of low/no-control abilities in parapsychology. Dean Radin to start with.
Richard Feynman (a friend of Randi coincidentally) has some chapters in his book Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman where he recounts his own exploration of some of these phenomena. An interesting read on creativity and scientific integrity in action.
Interview with Prof. Edsger Dijkstra, a Turing Award laureate, talking about the software used by Apollo team in 1969 the first successful Moonlanding,( min 5:30)
where in one of the calculations of the orbit of the lunar module, the moon had been defined as repelling instead of attracting- they had discovered that error by accident 5 days before the shot (Joel Aron, the head of IBM Federal S.D. agreed, those guys were lucky) no comment (at NATO conference on software eng.)
Anyway, back to the topicHow can anyone, who possesses a sense that others do not, prove that sense exists? A person born blind from birth has to take your word for it that sight actually exists and only does so because so many people say it is so. Does a sense, such as telepathy, not exist because only a small minority possesses it?
It's not so outrageous a possibility that the blaring stimulation one's nervous system receives could be making it hard to sense something else.
After all, people who are inundated with sounds often say it is "too loud to think." If loud sounds, extreme temperatures, or bright light can impede your mental clarity, isn't it possible that the cacophony of sensory input in daily life is blotting out other more subtle sensations?
We trust our senses quite thoroughly and readily dismiss all that we cannot personally perceive. Science is built on a foundation of extending the senses through technology in order to "prove" things.
Your topic is a good one. In regards specifically to talking about sight to a blind person: I went to HS with a guy born blind. There was only one specific type of occassion when he could see: when he took acid. Now, I'm NOT promoting it; I'm just ststing that he said he could "see" colors then, & only then. He described the color orange to me: I couldn't believe it. I can't remember the words, but he did. It does harken back to the old saying: if a tree falls in the woods, & no one hears it...
define "lab environment". The environment of study would be whatever is necessary to extract the desired evidence without coercing it. Sociologists and anthropologists have a problem similar to this of defining the proper "test" environment, and no one questions the conclusivity of their social and cultural findings.
I have to say about the debate, Stef is a great host, I couldn't ask for more, I wish I had kept my microphone away from near my mouth while I wasn't talking, I also, wanted to try to record my video during the debate, however it took me by surprise that Stef started the conversation right away; I am not sure whether recording me with Camtasia Studio would have negatively affected the audio quality, though, I should try it some time. If anyone has some strong points, go for it, you'll not regret
Very confusing at parts, but I think this debate was ultimately helpful for myself. Thank you Stef and to the other gentleman for airing this discussion.
Thanks! I have to make a little correction, regarding the term "voodoo"; it seems that 'voodoo' does not stand for "evil"
according to wikipedia and other sources; I forgot to mention this in during the debate with Stef. I'm still looking forward to finding a null hypothesis for a situation, with "evil voodoo" that would refute "evil voodoo" as ...being just "voodoo" ;-)
some people in this world just aren't worth the time. what a bone head. altough, it is fun to watch and listen to 'stefbot' knock out homers left and right.
I've always been a hard core atheist, but in recent years I've softened my position somewhat because of several experiences where I've "known" things that I had no logical reason to know. Either I have an amazingly powerful intuition, or there is some sort of freeky collective unconsciousness or zeitgeist or whatever out their out there that sometimes I'm plugged into. Seems to be random though, not something you could control in a laboratory.
I came across this Plato's getting knowledge before birth idea, and man, it really blew my mind away. I mean I was like: "what!? I can't f****** believe this s***!" I think it should be taken out of the philosophical manuals, it may cause trauma to kids or smth. It's the same kind of idea as with the well known Bible stories the kids get brainwashed with today.
Many of the people who claim to have been part of the U.S. Army's Remote Viewing programs routinely appear on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory (radio show). What then is preventing them from demonstrating their super-powers in a laboratory setting? If national security doesn't prevent them from discussing their alleged abilities (at length) on the radio, what exactly is preventing them from subjecting said abilities to scientific scrutiny?
Further more, if people actually had such powers and could demonstrate them, it would probably revolutionize science (dramatically alter our perspective and methodology). As such, any person who possessed such abilities but did not subject them to scientific scrutiny would be doing the world an unimaginable disservice. It would be flagrant negligence.
D4Shawn, nuclear submarines may use these type of telepathic methods, considering that deep water use of transmission of electro-magnetic waves is almost not possible.
That's partly true. Through experimentation, the military found that at those great depths, performing telepathy often resulted in "exploding head syndrome" (wherein the physic's head would explode). As such, the military was forced to use telepathic unicorns instead of humans on all their nuclear submarines. These unicorns are simply clones of the original telepathic unicorn long believed to be held captive at area 51. "Snorky" is her name. Right now there's about 500 Snorkys.
1.) Didn't Kurt Godel prove the existence of Platonic forms with his theorem?
2.) How can you know anything at all without eventually basing it a priori or Platonic knowledge? Even with sensory experience you need proof that that can be trusted.
3.) Why does Platonism need another realm to work, when we could just adopt Platonic monism? (you know information monism or Whitehead's panexperientialism)
I suspect that the researchers who tested the effectiveness of prayer did not fully understand what they were testing. If they viewed it as a kind of "Dear Santa" letter to God, then unanswered prayers would suggest that prayer is a waste of time. But what if prayer is not about asking God for stuff? What if its positive effects can't be easily perceived or measured? If we bow to God in prayer, then we'll be less likely to bow to drugs, lust, greed and vanity. This is what prayer is about.
stuntbaby63 9 months ago
Research Finds Evidence of ESP
you can google for this in the news
CalgaryAlpineStyle 1 year ago
@CalgaryAlpineStyle
Feeling the Future: Experimental Evidence for
Anomalous Retroactive Influences on Cognition and Affect
Daryl J. Bem
Cornell University.
CalgaryAlpineStyle 1 year ago
The guy stef is talking to sounds like The terminator lol
RedDevileire 1 year ago
i think stef is in need of a babel fish too. 32:41. i just dont have the will to carry on.:(
lordmonty01 2 years ago
With respect to the above video! nature vs nurture! born with personality or cultivated? best wishes Alan
ajeu 2 years ago
The Journal of Clinical Epidemiology published a review of the research on the palcebo effect that seems to indicate that it is a myth. I've also never heard of a physiological study or explanation for whether particular supposed placebo effects are possible.
Kl0kw3rk 2 years ago
Where is the scientific evidence that the placebo effect is real?
Kl0kw3rk 2 years ago
*moves cursor over to 'x' on my screen without hands and clicks it with mind*
RadicalForLiberty 3 years ago
Where is the DJ from? He has an accent I can't place. Ireland?
In regards to adorianvlad's comments about the Moon Landing being hoax theory: it's only a hoax theory if it's not proven. If proven, it's a conspiracy. 3 months before they supposedly landed on the moon, Neil lost contol of a lunar landing modul, I believe it was, in a dead calm at Area 51. And pics of 2 supposed locations where he walked had exactly the same rocks on the side of the hill. There are to many inconsistancies in it.
5150bythenight 3 years ago
Pls. check stef's username for all the info
that he made available.
Regarding the Moon Landing stuff, I would leave it here, it doesn't affect me either way, it would had been nice to have the truth about such an important aspect but I guess
politics its more important here than the truth. I don't care about the photos, they can be faked by anyone, its just that since
70's there were no other attemps for aselenization, that is what is dubious.
Anyhow, thanks for answering.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
And pshychic abilites have been proven, both in the lab & out. I have friends who can back up the abilities that I have. I'm not bragging; in fact, because of it, I live out in the country. Too many people in one area iverloads my senses, & I shut down. Stanford did resaearch in the late '60's & early '70's on all kinds of thing, phsychic abilities included. I was one of their test subjects, although I wasn't completely aware of it at the time. When folks still say the world is flat...
5150bythenight 3 years ago
Exactly, this issue is kind of making me a bit skeptical about the very existence of the telepathic abilities; as such, our 5 senses may be themselves more "sensitised" when paying more attention to the "sensitivity" of our senses, right? For example, even the sense of pheromones, or the sense of the adrenaline or other "hormones of fear", in other words when becoming more aware of our 5 senses we may get a feeling that actually we have ESP; so the range of our perception increases (we can smell
adorianvlad 3 years ago
from a further distance than the average person, or see or hear at further distances,
and it may give us a feeling that we have a 6-th sense. I think its good to consider this.
Regarding your participation at Stanford, its great to hear we have here in this topic a "real participant" to such experiments. Regarding the blind person taking enhancing drugs, such as acid, its emphasizing my point I've made in my last comment, can increase our sensory perception when taking certain substances.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Well then you should pick up your million dollars from the Amazing Randi, he's had the prize money available for decades to anyone who can prove psychic abilities!
Let me know how it goes, I'd love to be the first to interview you when you have the money! :)
stefbot 3 years ago
I bet 5150bythenight woudn't stand a chance taking the so called "tests" of Amazing Randi or any other "clowns".
I am watching now this video:
"Science and the taboo of psi" with Dean Radin
watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew from googletechtalks
Jan 18 2008
Speaker: Dean Radin
Dean Radin is a researcher and author in the field of parapsychology. He is Senior Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences and four-time former President of the Parapsychological Association
adorianvlad 3 years ago
don't get me wrong. The Amazing Randi is great at finding crooks like the spoonbenders, or those "talking to the dead", but he does a modes job when dealing with the genuine ones.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Randi requires 1 in a million odds to be met
1)People with such a command of psychic powers would not need to do his challenge to make money, and for safety they wouldn't want to be discovered at all
2)Certain spiritual forces may prevent spirit from being proven and understood en masse, in order to not interfere with the purpose of the need to search for and self-discover such abilities.
3)There is plenty of evidence of low/no-control abilities in parapsychology. Dean Radin to start with.
pepperpunch 3 years ago
How much do you know about jiddu krishinamurti?
vegnagunL 2 years ago
@stefbot
Please see this criticism of Randi's challenge and follow the links: michaelprescott (DOT) freeservers (DOT) com/challenge (DOT) htm
Blissentia 1 year ago
@stefbot
I believe your caller is proposing not dismissing things out of hand as disproven, but claiming that they are not yet proven.
Blissentia 1 year ago
@stefbot
another criticism of the million dollar challenge: dailygrail (DOT) com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge
Blissentia 1 year ago
Richard Feynman (a friend of Randi coincidentally) has some chapters in his book Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman where he recounts his own exploration of some of these phenomena. An interesting read on creativity and scientific integrity in action.
clemonsx90 1 year ago
Interview with Prof. Edsger Dijkstra, a Turing Award laureate, talking about the software used by Apollo team in 1969 the first successful Moonlanding,( min 5:30)
where in one of the calculations of the orbit of the lunar module, the moon had been defined as repelling instead of attracting- they had discovered that error by accident 5 days before the shot (Joel Aron, the head of IBM Federal S.D. agreed, those guys were lucky) no comment (at NATO conference on software eng.)
watch?v=uW3keAPJqU8
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Anyway, back to the topicHow can anyone, who possesses a sense that others do not, prove that sense exists? A person born blind from birth has to take your word for it that sight actually exists and only does so because so many people say it is so. Does a sense, such as telepathy, not exist because only a small minority possesses it?
It's not so outrageous a possibility that the blaring stimulation one's nervous system receives could be making it hard to sense something else.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
After all, people who are inundated with sounds often say it is "too loud to think." If loud sounds, extreme temperatures, or bright light can impede your mental clarity, isn't it possible that the cacophony of sensory input in daily life is blotting out other more subtle sensations?
We trust our senses quite thoroughly and readily dismiss all that we cannot personally perceive. Science is built on a foundation of extending the senses through technology in order to "prove" things.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Your topic is a good one. In regards specifically to talking about sight to a blind person: I went to HS with a guy born blind. There was only one specific type of occassion when he could see: when he took acid. Now, I'm NOT promoting it; I'm just ststing that he said he could "see" colors then, & only then. He described the color orange to me: I couldn't believe it. I can't remember the words, but he did. It does harken back to the old saying: if a tree falls in the woods, & no one hears it...
5150bythenight 3 years ago
People say it doesn't exist because every time one of these psychics are brought into a lab environment, nothing extraordinary happens.
ufee 3 years ago
define "lab environment". The environment of study would be whatever is necessary to extract the desired evidence without coercing it. Sociologists and anthropologists have a problem similar to this of defining the proper "test" environment, and no one questions the conclusivity of their social and cultural findings.
SpeargunHDTV 3 years ago
some people just want to get high ya know? some people just want to get high.
DeraJa 3 years ago
LOOOOL! What, isn't this true?
adorianvlad 3 years ago
I have to say about the debate, Stef is a great host, I couldn't ask for more, I wish I had kept my microphone away from near my mouth while I wasn't talking, I also, wanted to try to record my video during the debate, however it took me by surprise that Stef started the conversation right away; I am not sure whether recording me with Camtasia Studio would have negatively affected the audio quality, though, I should try it some time. If anyone has some strong points, go for it, you'll not regret
adorianvlad 3 years ago
actually, I could've used my Sony Handycam to record, I forgot about it. Perhaps some other time.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Very confusing at parts, but I think this debate was ultimately helpful for myself. Thank you Stef and to the other gentleman for airing this discussion.
HC4D 3 years ago
Thanks! I have to make a little correction, regarding the term "voodoo"; it seems that 'voodoo' does not stand for "evil"
according to wikipedia and other sources; I forgot to mention this in during the debate with Stef. I'm still looking forward to finding a null hypothesis for a situation, with "evil voodoo" that would refute "evil voodoo" as ...being just "voodoo" ;-)
adorianvlad 3 years ago
some people in this world just aren't worth the time. what a bone head. altough, it is fun to watch and listen to 'stefbot' knock out homers left and right.
snowtrot 3 years ago
wow, my head was swimming by 28:00... it's like talking with some of my maternal relatives.
newjoiseyboy 3 years ago
That was painful.
lukeev 3 years ago
tough cookie to chew, eh?
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Perhaps he feels that he can't trust science because he's not been able trust any other authority in his life.
Collective reasoning.
Unfortunately, he has no evidence. So if he's going to go that route, why believe anything scientific at all.
Sepero1 3 years ago
Sepero1, I am the skeptical person here, why would you label me as "someone that doesn't trust science?"
I trust science, is just sometimes I don't trust statistics. There has been many proofs that statistics are not reliable 100%
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Not trusting statistics is fine.
What you seem to be claiming is that there are scientific tests that have been done, and peer reviewed- yet nobody knows of them.
Somewhere, someone is trying to hide it...
Where is the evidence that scientific tests have been 'not put forward towards the public'. (your words 26:30)
The burden of proof is on you. You claim in the video that you have no proof.
Sepero1 3 years ago
Well, because I have telepathic abilities!
Of course I KNOW that! ;-)
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Oh, I've just found out. It's adorianvlad, right?
DrKaoliN 3 years ago
Yep, that's the "real" me; in bytes and bites
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Who are you talking to?
DrKaoliN 3 years ago
...why do so many callers to radio shows take thirty seconds to say absolutely nothing?
t3z2pulm 3 years ago
Well, one of the most difficult things to say is to say nothing. (in 30 minutes)
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Thanks, Stef, for the great feed-back in this debate, I really appreciate it!
I am looking forward for further inquiries into these fascinating topics.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
I've always been a hard core atheist, but in recent years I've softened my position somewhat because of several experiences where I've "known" things that I had no logical reason to know. Either I have an amazingly powerful intuition, or there is some sort of freeky collective unconsciousness or zeitgeist or whatever out their out there that sometimes I'm plugged into. Seems to be random though, not something you could control in a laboratory.
Ape65 3 years ago
I really agree with you re. the foundationsof science: Aristotle is pretty much a proto-scientist! 'Science' developed thereafter.
flaze3 3 years ago
During Plato's time, the idea didn't seem so silly.
qtronman 3 years ago
qtronman, I remember when I was a teenager
I came across this Plato's getting knowledge before birth idea, and man, it really blew my mind away. I mean I was like: "what!? I can't f****** believe this s***!" I think it should be taken out of the philosophical manuals, it may cause trauma to kids or smth. It's the same kind of idea as with the well known Bible stories the kids get brainwashed with today.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Eastern European
RokonFan1988 3 years ago
You've got that right. I'm pretty much a mixture of some Eastern Europeans in my family. Good observation!
adorianvlad 3 years ago
You did a good job not laughing. I'd like to see you tackle Berkeleyan idealism in a video. That'd be a hoot.
burnvictim77 3 years ago
Many of the people who claim to have been part of the U.S. Army's Remote Viewing programs routinely appear on Coast to Coast AM with George Noory (radio show). What then is preventing them from demonstrating their super-powers in a laboratory setting? If national security doesn't prevent them from discussing their alleged abilities (at length) on the radio, what exactly is preventing them from subjecting said abilities to scientific scrutiny?
D4Shawn 3 years ago
Further more, if people actually had such powers and could demonstrate them, it would probably revolutionize science (dramatically alter our perspective and methodology). As such, any person who possessed such abilities but did not subject them to scientific scrutiny would be doing the world an unimaginable disservice. It would be flagrant negligence.
D4Shawn 3 years ago
D4Shawn, nuclear submarines may use these type of telepathic methods, considering that deep water use of transmission of electro-magnetic waves is almost not possible.
adorianvlad 3 years ago
That's partly true. Through experimentation, the military found that at those great depths, performing telepathy often resulted in "exploding head syndrome" (wherein the physic's head would explode). As such, the military was forced to use telepathic unicorns instead of humans on all their nuclear submarines. These unicorns are simply clones of the original telepathic unicorn long believed to be held captive at area 51. "Snorky" is her name. Right now there's about 500 Snorkys.
D4Shawn 3 years ago
Right, right; the famous Area51 in Nevada,where was filmed the Moon-landing of Neil Armstrong , and his team mates.
yeah, the Apollo Moon Landing hoax theories
adorianvlad 3 years ago
i love u but im not asian
kRAZYCanuck22 3 years ago
Are you a girl at least?
D4Shawn 3 years ago
Sorry for butting in D4, but you can use this as a "null hypothesis", so we can stay on topic of philosophical assumptions?
Well, speaking of which, is it going to be refuted or perhaps is going to be a unicorn alternative hypothesis...
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Ivan Drago rules!
"I must break you"
D4Shawn 3 years ago
Hehe, Dolph Lundgren is always ready!
adorianvlad 3 years ago
Never underestimate the awesomeness of Dolph Lundgren (or else)!
D4Shawn 3 years ago
cute accent =)
not that i don't have my own sexy Latin accent =D
LatinYoung20 3 years ago
did you fall asleep around 17:50?
buttface1202 3 years ago
Sometimes it's really hard to listen to people, especially when I'm having trouble following what they're saying...
stefbot 3 years ago
oh dont worry, i could understand what he was saying, he just wasnt saying anything
buttface1202 3 years ago
@stefbot Three questions:
1.) Didn't Kurt Godel prove the existence of Platonic forms with his theorem?
2.) How can you know anything at all without eventually basing it a priori or Platonic knowledge? Even with sensory experience you need proof that that can be trusted.
3.) Why does Platonism need another realm to work, when we could just adopt Platonic monism? (you know information monism or Whitehead's panexperientialism)
JohananRaatz 2 months ago
yeah, I've hypnotized Stef, using my magic powers ;-)
adorianvlad 3 years ago