Celestine V: the first pope that resigned from Peters seat

[chicago618]

Why wasnt it translated into Latin? Simple, because for all those years the church was in persecution and didnt do much of anything much less such a huge project of translating. They were still celebrating the mass in the catecombs. No book written in Latin? Really? could it be that was because they were wriiten in Palestine where the language was aramaic, greek, and hebrew? Im surprised you didnt also ask why the Old Testament was wriiten in Latin as well.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 ...Sooner or Later you're going to have to face-yourself.God is Love,so He will always know you better than you know-your self.& God is Love beyond our-imagination yet able to embrace both our humanity & our yearnings to Love & be Loved in return.There has been not 1 little-fleck of joy in any-thing you've said. The god you have created is a sad-tyrant,like Hitler or Stalin that serves as an outlet for your resentments.Power is what YOU-CRAVE,all you know areRULES,GOD'S-LOVE eludes-u

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Certainly God is Love but what you fail to mention is that He is also a God of Truth and Revelation. You reject both. As for joy I have much of it since I know I adhere to Truth. You on the other hand adhere to your own opininons. You have not once given me a serious answer to any of my arguments. You evade them. It brings me much joy to defend my Catholic faith against your faith. I guess if you do sense no joy it only because I am saddened by the danger your soul is in.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 who are you kidding,you're a blood-lusting Crusader,Except you picture yourself trapsing around in a Cardinals get-up pointing-out where the heretics are.And,by the way,I also believe in gay-marriage & women priests.Like,i said(or maybe i didn't?) coversing with you makes me worry about your-soul too.You are some-what interesting.Tell me,though,have you completed the chapel yet?Tell me where n when & maybe i can talk a friend of mine into giving you a fabulous Spanish Virgin-Mary.yup

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt I know you believe in gay marriages and women priests. I know this because you have already told me a lot about your religion. Its totally human centered and not Christocentric. You have long left the Catholic Faith you just dont know it. "You are some-what interesting." Thanks for the compliment..I think. Your insult of the blessed virgin is no longer shocking. Your mind/soul is going further thru the downward spiral.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Wow..that was really-quick.You must be praying to St,Joseph of Cuppertino,He could be in 2 places at once.And,what on earth are you talking about? I mention to you an extremley Lovely image of Our Lady of Sorrows (that has real-glass-eyes)& hair-donated by Carmelite-nuns & you accuse me of disrespect? Well too bad for you then,cause she's staying with people that have a deep-devotion to our most-blessed Lady.What are you? Your Christology seems more Lutheran than Catholic.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Your mention of her was disrespectful."maybe i can talk a friend of mine into giving you a fabulous Spanish Virgin-Mary.yup".That was not sincere and you know that you said it in a sarcastic note. As for devotion, you are not devoted to her.I am totally devoted to Our Lady of LaSallete, Guadalupe, Good Success, and Fatima. Do you belive in the revelations of Fatima or Guadalupe? I dont think so.Your devotion is not true.Please explain my christology for me and how its lutheran

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 you are definitely post Vatican2.Those of us from before the council,shun the likes of you with your retro-mentality toward the Virgin Mary.Bishop Zumarraga would send you packin for your outrageous-quantifications ....but let us try to be kind....Bet-ya that you don't know this(but it will greatly enrich-your-spirituality).Pope Leo xiii(friend of the working-man & author of Rerum-Novarum)gave a special-gold crown to the Madonna of 115th st.(Madonna del Carmine1892NYC)not-aSecret NOW

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt As for you I have sensed no joy in your words except for the sarcastic tone a rebellious teenager gives to his parents. If riduculing the Catholic Faith and the God of Scriptures is your idea of joy then youcan keep that false joy. Your paranoia seems to be getting worse. You say I crave power. The more I know God the more I know I have no power whatsoever. It would appear that you are the one who wants to remake the Catholic faith into your own image, thats a power trip.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt I know Gods love and his truth. You would have rejected the Ten Commandments had you been on Mt Sinai. It seems your god is the manichaen god who wants no rules. True love comes with rules. Apparently your parents gave you none. I am bathed in Gods' love. You on the other hand are bathed in your own love of self. Thats the only love that you feel.

[chicago618]

Your insults are always an indication your are more of a comedian than anything else. Your grasp of basic issues are none existent. I seriously your desire to "PR4U" is sincere. It seems that tha tis your way of saying how much you hatred is in your heart and mind. I do hope people look back at our messages and see who is the one with no charity, your insults and filthy rerfernces are legion. Save the prayers for your self, you need them more.

[chicago618]

Papal infallibility never made it in because it was not the focus of the council. It was dealing with issues of a christological nature. I have read The Rules of St Benedecit and a biography written of him. I havent gotten around to Cassian but thanks for the recommend. I appreciate the warning as well. Ill try and get to Cassian's writings sometime this summer

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 "papal infallibility never made it in because it was not the focus of the council"...O.K.kid,this is what's called "implicit-theology" meaning that it wasn't an issue,because it was an(implicit) accepted-reality.Dominicans,Je­suits & Myrmidons make use of such-sophistry.The reason "papal-infallibility" wasn't an issue was because there was no such thing as papal-infallibility(yet)That council was called by the Emperor & not the pope.Alexandria had a Pope then too & still does

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Once again you dont know what you are talking about. As I told you the issue was the nature of Christ. Why would they discuss an altoghter different issue? You have no idea what infallility is. It doesnt require that a pope convene it, only that he must approve it. Thats what he did. St Sylvester sent two legate priests who signed on the pope's behalf. They were the first to sign the decrees. The title of pope was used of all bishops up until a certain period....

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt It is well documented that all the bishops during theological crisis appealed to Rome for judgement, even the patriarch of Constaninople. The fact that Alexandira's bishop calls himself a pope means nothing since his apostiolic see was not founded by St Peter who possess the keys. You anti Catholic rantings tell me that you are on your way home to being a very good baptist. You call me a "kid", another indication that charity is not in your soul.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Baptist?..for years i've been listening to the music of "The Schismatics",their Liturgy is closer to the early-Christians ...& you call me a "Baptist"...while your partaking in The de-formations of Vatican2?....if the Latin-Church was so "Romey"why wasn't the Bible translated into Latin until about 386AD.Not one book of the Bible was written in Latin,The entire New Testament was written in Koine(a-sort-of-slangish-Greek­).In Rome Latin was spoken,but the Liturgy was in Greek(Koine)Pax

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt It seems that you are not only deficient in theology but you have no historical awarenes either. As for the deformation of Vatican 2, I agree with you but for different reasons. That Council was led by a spirit that guides yoor own. A spirit downplaying tradition and a supporting ecumenism. The spirit of heretics like Rahner and others are what has allowed folks like yourself to roam about freely in the church attacking it from within.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt You say you are 63 but your words indicate that you are really only 12 years old in your maturity. You have no grasp of basic theological issues. All you do is repeat over and over "Oh thats implcit, thats implicit!" How embarrasing it is to read you.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Cool-it .don't be so puffed-up with pride.your just upset cause you never got past theology 101 at St.Moronica's Special-ed.You have no faith at all in the Holy-Spirit if you think ANYONE can hurt the Church.Christ said it will last until the end of time.And bet you never gave that bore Dominic Savio a single-thought until i mentioned him.Pray to the Little-Flower,St.Teresa of Lisieux,did ya ever see those photos of her as Joan of Arc?She was the AndyWarhol of-the19thCentury-Church+

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt I have never stated that anything can overtake the church although it can be attacked from within from folks like yourself. As for theology I have demosntrated a far more deeper understanding than yourself. All you have done is thrown 5 year old personal insults. You have obviously never read a theological work in your life. The way you speak of the saints is truly diabolical. I have come across the name of Savio b 4 but there are thousands of saints.

[chicago618]

"But if you think I'm disjunctive,just check-out that monster of Cultural-Moronism known as the Vatican2 Mass". I have to say Im a little shocked , pleasantly shocked. Why...I agree with you! I have no use for Vatian 2's horrible mass either. I pefer the extraordinary mass whichis divine. Dont go to Orthodoxy. Struggle with your faith as a Catholic. We all struggle. BTW I dont know of anyone one who lives in a basement in cyberspace. Actualy I hope we do meet one day my friend. so long for now

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Hey,its me...the nice-Nicene Christian who wonders why Papal-infallibility never made it into the Credo akaThe Creed? but that's not why the writ is being written to-you.You've gotta read the Rule of St.Benedict(who never became a priest) & the 12 books of JohnCassian....cuz you'll really get into his word-usages.The translation in English was made during the Victorian era(so it omits "un-seemly"elements).Its approved 4 RC-Catholic-usage,but Anglican-heretics translated-it.SoBeware.

[chicago618]

testing

[chicago618]

I never meant this to be a contest.As for convincing you about infallibility I never see my job to persuade anyone. Only to correct. You havent really made any effort to interact. As for your refernce to Saint Savio I have no idea what that is about. Actualized/Realized or meaningless categories. As for being a heretic, you may not be a formal but a material heretic. You may be sincere in your adherence to your error.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 ...do you own a fleet of buses? cuz I bet you drove a lot of people away from the Church with your pharisaical-notions of legalism.And,i still honestly-believe that you're that guy on u-tube (with the poster of the expensive car on the wall behind him) that is planning his rise in the ranks by being a sycophant of the upper-clergy & loves hurling anathemas out into cyber-space.The nice thing about computers is that every-one can see how "Christ-like" Christians aren't.not good PR4U.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Legalsim? You would have been one of the many who would have turned away from the Lord after he drove out the money changers. You would have called him a "meaney". Its sad to see how further down the spiral you seem to be going. Buses? Really this is how you respond? "And,i still honestly-believe that you're that guy on u-tube (with the poster of the expensive car on the wall behind him"" What? Your mind is delusional. You seem to have problems with reality and fantasy.

[Davemustang2600]

No. 2 A non-Roman citizen especially a martyrd Jew would never have been granted a burial much less a grave shrine in Rome.

[Davemustang2600]

You're echoing a lie that's as old as every piece of propaganda the RCC has ever used. Ignatius NEVER speaks of Peters burial place. Historians bear out that the grave on Vatican Hill no. 1 Was a forgotten grave shrine which most likely belonged to Simon Magus the Sorcere who was a Roman.

[Davemustang2600]

@ Luvpinas

[Davemustang2600]

@ Luvpinas

[BuckworthJackson]

The Catholic Church has lost all moral authority. Catholic politicians promote abortion, yet remain in good standing?

And for the record, every single cop, but for two, who I worked with, cheated on their wifes.

And bragged the Catholic Church was the best!

They could pop in for a five minute confession, and then were good to go!

By their deeds, you shall know them.

(Of course, their Catholic wifes didn't care, as their fathers cheated on their mothers. They knew no better.

[chicago618]

@BuckworthJackson As a Catholic I would agree with you on this matter. The Church lost its moral authoruty the day it started to cave in to the world around the 60's. The garbage going on today would never have been tolerated by the church of yester year. After the so called reforms of the church during the 60s the seminaries have had a pervasive homosexual culture well documented (see Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church by Michael Rose)...

[chicago618]

@BuckworthJacskon I also agree with you wholeheartedly about "catholic" politicians who promote abortion and other moral perversion. Once again the church is in a state of crisis, we had a pope who failed to shepherd the flock forcefully. These polticians in another era would have been delt with severely. Your fellow cops also represent the failure of the church. However Christ did say that there would be weeds growing alongside the wheat. The church still stands as it has for 2000 years.

[tlaniganschmidt]

So,then,which one of these 2 Popes was infallible? The one who resigned? Or the one who imprisoned the other one for resigning?

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt This is an erroneous understanding of infallibility. Infallibility referes when a pope defines a matter regarding faith (dogma) and/or morals. Political power play by the popes is not an infallible act. Popes can be scoundrels but that doesnt in any way contradict the doctrine of infallibility.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Thanks for the Catechism-Lesson.But put yer feet back on the ground,& see how this legalistic-dogma is abused every-day by Catholic TV & the Mother Angelicans such as Raymond Arroyo,who truncates this dogma into any utterance that pertains to Faith or Morals. If you can honestly wrestle with the implicit & explicit ways that that dogma is inflicted upon the laity(& only official since the late 19th century)...but since you've read your Catechism,you'll say"it was always-implicit"+

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt My feet are perfectly on the ground. I was correcting your cartoon caricature of infallibilty. Your are simply wrong to say that ewtn is abusing it. Provide examples so everyone here can see . You wont be able to. You are changing the topic on purpose becaue you cant defend your erroneous view. You seemed steep in your cartoon caricature of infallibility. If Arroyoa has done so then he is wrong but I assure you he hasnt. Give examples. Being uninformed is your only strength.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt "If you can honestly wrestle with the implicit & explicit ways that that dogma is inflicted upon the laity(& only official since the late 19th century)...but since you've read your Catechism,you'll say"it was always-implicit"+" I have no idea about this "explicit/implicit" notion you speak of but I challenge you to provide how this has inflicted the laity. I'll be eagerly awaiting.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Gads talk about kitsch-theology.Look this is going no-where.Just find some people that think just like-you do & ask God to make you more charitable & Loving than I am being to you.Maybe visit a monastery or something that involves a little-Spirituality.If Raymond Arroyo gives you some sense of God's Love,then read his books & maybe that's what God wants 4 you?...May God's Love bring-you closer His-Person,

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt "Gads talk about kitsch-theology" What? Anyway there was nothing uncharitable in how I have communicated to you. On the other hand you were the one who told me to "put yer feet back on the ground", not vey charitbale. Your sarcasm ("Thanks for the Catechism-Lesson") also speaks to your uncharitablenes. I merely sought to deal with your erroneous views on infallibility. I was mistaken to think you were a reasonable person. Your inablity to communicate seriously is telling.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 oh...cut it out ...this isn't a contest to see who can do the best imitation of Dominic Savio talking to Saint John Bosco.I have a feeling that you're actually a very-nice person,but yer not gonna convince me that Papal-infallibility is actualized or realized.Call me a heretic....well,any-way since we all suffer from the flaws imparted to us through original-sin.& yet are both potential-Saints,there is no reason why this conversation should stop,its up to you & your response 2 Grace+

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt It is true that we are all flawed, I more than anyone. However we are called to obey what the church clearly teaches. If you choose to reject the correct teaching on infallibility that is your free will right. You dont however have the right to redefine it. It is wasy to set up a straw man and knock it down. Vatican I laid down the dogma clearly. You may not like it but its not your to redefine. I mean this sincerely when I say that you could also become protestant.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 You don't know Our Theology.A Catholic can only nominally become a protestant.But the Sacraments cannot be invalidated.....So...just as a priest is always sacramentally a Priest.I shall always be a Catholic.And in good-conscience I shall Celebrate the Eucharist with you & the entire-Body of Christ.You see my fellow Catholic,every nite,i thank our dear-Lord & Savior that the English defeated the Armada.But,maybe I'll become Greek Orthodox.No Pope & valid-Sacraments,

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt I am very well aware of Catholic theology. Based on your understanding of infallibility you are the one who hasnt picked up a catechism at all. You are indeed Catholic...a disobedient one. You have decided what aspect of the magesterium you will validate for yourself. Your connscience has not been fully trained if you could do so in good conscience. As St Paul said its possible to partake of the Body of Christ unworthily.This is a warning you should take seriously in your case.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Your rambling is disturbing. First you bring up Sts Savio and Bosco for whatever reason, then you bring up the Spanish Armada. You have no coherence to your thought process. "But,maybe I'll become Greek Orthodox" It doesnt surprise me in the least that you would join a schismatic group. Just like Protestants they reject the chair of St Peter. You say they have no pope, you are right in one sense. In another you are wrong. The true pope in Rome is simply replaced with yourself

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Your tone of voice is very nun-like (of the more-repressed-type).& had Dominic Savio lived he'd probably be like you.Oh,yes i read such authors as Allen Ginsberg & William Borroughs so that may have something to do with my rather,disjunctive-usages(why do you think i suggested that you go to a monastery?)..oops(there's someone at the door...just a sec,be back-soon).OMG,its the Swiss-Guards,you must've told them ,about that evening in Rome,near the baths of Caracalla:

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt It seems your uncharitableness knows no bounds ("of the more-repressed-type"). Thank you for comparing me to St Savio. Although he would not be like me since he was a holy child and Im a sinner. Ginsberg & Borroughs? That explains a whole lot. Your are eating spiritual poison.

No wonder your soul is in trouble my friend. "...about that evening in Rome baths of Caracalla" You have a disgusting sense of sarcasm as well. But I should expect that from you by now.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 now yer-talkin,you don't sound like parrot any-more.& in yer last mini-epistle you didn't use one13th-century theological-cliche.Sooner or later yer gonna realize that yer not inCatechism-Kansas any-more(Dorothy).And if you actually read the rule of St.Benedict,you would denounce him as a usurper of priestly-priviledge.Some of these early Saints are a lot more in touch than these boring-sycophants like that Savio nincompoop.In theSpirit of Filial-Love(Charity flatters the giver)+PAX+

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt Your ridculing the church's catechism tells me you have no regard for the church or her teachings but only for your own desires. You have only resorted to disgusting references to the baths of Rome. You truly are a twisted soul. You insult St Savio. This reveals more about your weak intellect than anythng about Savio. You end your message with "Pax". However your words have only revealed you only wish harm on the church. You seem to be a church and pope unto your own.

[chicago618]

@chicago618 I saw your explanation for the baths after posting this.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 such notions as you-imply are totally off the subject.As you very-well know,nothing untoward happened that evening at Rome.I was merely making refeference to a lively extremely animated conversation between a married Anglican-Priest & a Leferbite-zealot.It is beyond my wildest-imaginings how you could imply anything unseemly from such a sincere encounter between 2 seekers of Christ's ineffable Love that surpases all knowledge.A lovely shrine(to our-Lady) perfumed by flowers was near+

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt I just saw this message so Im glad you werent making any filthy references. However it was very justified to do so. You referred to me as "repressed" , your saracstic remark that I sentteh Swiss gurad and then you followed up that I must have told them about the baths. All that other stuff came about your conversation was something out of no where. How was anyone supposed to know abou that?

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Thank you for pointing out my rather disjunctive way of writing.But if you think I'm disjunctive,just check-out that monster of Cultural-Moronism known as the Vatican2 Mass....it makes Martin Luther look like St.John Vianney.Like,i said...i sorta like you.Are you a friend of the overly-impacted zealot that does a rant on u-tube from the basement of his Parents home somewhere out there in cyber-space.Eventually we will meet,perhaps (if not before) at the last judgement.God is Love.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt "I shall Celebrate the Eucharist with you..." You are wrong. When I partake of it I do so in full obedeince to the Apostolic Church. You do so as a pope unto yourself. At this point your disobedeince is so deep and ingrained that you may have incurred the sentence of latae sententiae and are outside of the Catholic faith. I sincerely pray for you. This is no longer about who knows what in the mind but about your soul tlaniganschmidt.

[chicago618]

@tlaniganschmidt "May God's Love bring-you closer His-Person" and may the Holy Ghost illuminate you and bring you to faithful obedience to the church & orthodox Catholic teaching and away from heresy.

[tlaniganschmidt]

@chicago618 Thank you,I deeply respect your earnest-sincerity & will pray that God's ineffable-Love is actualized through the talents Our dear Lord has entrusted to your keeping.Only God can perceive you as a total-person even better than you will ever know your-self.&,I honestly mean-it when i say that your talents (unique 2-u) co-mingled with God's Loving-Living-Mystery may be realized in the fullness of time.

[Gettulio]

Pope Benedict XVI placed a pallium on the tomb of Celestine V during his visit to the Basilica of Santa Maria di Collemaggio in l'Aquila.

[Gettulio]

A big question arises on the matter of a Papal abdication. Although the Pope may abdicate the Papacy, there is no authority higher than he to accept the abdication. The argument can be made that regardless of the declaration of abdication or the election of a successor, a Pope is Pope for life. So does that make him Pope-emeritus? Co-Pope? The Pope, unwilling? The actual Pope until death? Is his successor merely a ruling 'Cardinal Regent' ? Boniface VIII may have thought so.

[Gettulio]

He was elected Pope in the year 1294, the last non-conclave Papal election in the history of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Gettulio]

Very nice video montage. The script is a little too light. Celestine V abdicated the papacy, as one does not resign from the Seat of Peter. He initially refused to accept the Papacy, until persuaded by a deputation of cardinals accompanied by the Kings of Naples and Hungary. His official acts did cause the affairs of the Curia to fall into extreme disorder. He experienced moral conflict in the exercise of affairs of state. After several months he returned to a monastic life of piety.

[12buhbauy0987]

We know our Christian History very well!!!

Peter was indeed the 1st Pope (Matthew 16:18) and is buried right under St. Peter's Basilica. From St. Peter to the 266th successor Pope Benedict XVI.

The History of Christianity is the History of the Roman Catholic Church... Liars go to hell!

[Davemustang2600]

@12buhbauy0987

Haha liars go to hell?

Well you must have your bags packed!

[williamscandice]

if people new there history peter was never a pope and is not buried in rome its a lie

[luvpinas123]

@Davemustang2600 Fallacy! Peter's body was found on Vatican hill, and not in Jerusalem. We must look into the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch of whom St. Peter left his post to as bishop of the local area. Not that Peter invested any Papal authority in Antioch, which he did not, but he appointed Ignatius to govern the See of Antioch when he went to Rome.

[Childinfaith]

Wow I never knew anyone resigned from the Papacy before.