This is the guy you deleted (where you talk about at 2:20). I was just looking out for you, man. It's one thing if you kept the issue to yourself, but you made it public (including to others you'd never met in person or even at all) giving people incentive to discuss their own feelings on the situation. That's just how things work. If everyone agreed with me on everything I ever thought or did, it would be no different than being alone.
Some of the things you said, 'generally speaking and without detail' may have met a moral standard, but not an ethically, But once I got a bit more background I think it's important to understand that different situations call for different actions. I personally believe if you are wronged in such a way that apparently you were, then sure leave without word, but if you were not wronged leaving one who has invested in you emotionally calls for explanation IMHO.
@NaturalGrace If you might consider it, watch a video I did called Skeletons in my Closet, wherein I debunked my brother's bogus story. Feel free to post it in that Something Awful thread, along with the fact that I never took out a loan while I was not in school and the fact that I consistently make full payments on the loans.
I'm sorry that your relationship with your parents sucked. I don't believe the issue at hand here is debt. It's loyalty.
Loyalty deals more in trust than financial ties. If your parents abuse you, (and I wouldn't qualify public school as abuse... in most instances,) then you don't owe them your trust or your respect. They took care of you, sure... but not well.
They were required by law to feed you. If they did that AND provided a supportive relationship, that merits loyalty/respect.
I would make a slight correction from the standpoint of a parent: you close by saying emotional attachment is not something you can owe as a debt, but I think this is actually something we owe our children; indeed, if we are psychologically incapable of forming an emotional attachment, then at least we owe them our very best efforts to heal and provide as much empathy and connection as possible
@gottogochild I'd have to do a whole video on the subject, but I wouldn't say parents owe that to their children so much as failing to give that to their children would actually do psychological damage to both the children and the parents. I think we see ourselves through others, and that this causes abuse directed at others to always be abuse directed at ourselves at the same time.
I agree with the basic essence of what you said though. Parents should be good parents :)
As far as I'm concerned parents are PEOPLE. I treat all people equally. Including the parents lol. If they get out of line then they get the same ramifications lol Good vid
Interesting. For me 'owe' is not a word that I would have connected with 'family'. It seems like the statement by its very formulation seeks to restrict explanations of familial relationships to inadequate mercantile terms – and I am left wondering why this may be?
I have never considered that I 'owe' my family anything. The notion is as meaningful to me pondering what triangles may taste like...
Abusive relationships happen in families. However, you cannot equate abusive relationships with parental ones. Though spot-on in how to deal with abusive relationships-sever contact, do not blame yourself, etc-your logic falls apart where you assume that all parents are abusive. (And does forcing you to go to school count as abusive? Perhaps not.) If yours were, honestly I applaud your hardiness, but you cannot take all your conclusions about abusive relationships and apply them to all parents.
I love this video. I kind of wish I could sever contact with my parents, but I have sympathy for them in some small amount and I think it would hurt them.
To me family is everything... I owe them in the sense that I will do anything to protect that bond from external threats. However I agree there is no obligation to trash- many of my biological family mean nothing to me- an entire branch even disowned me. I took abuse off them and society as a child... I have nothing but pity and disgust for them. It's funny how most people extend the "family obligation" to the State. The gov't is a raging/raping/murdering/thieving alcoholic parent- fuck em all.
@RayWilliamJohnston Who, me? My 45 year old daughter is living on her own and running her own Engineering company. My youngest son, 27, is here only to save money on rent while he finishes up college. He went out on his own at the age of 18 and supported himself for over 7 years before deciding to return to school. Don't presume to know our circumstances. You don't.
But either way I really agree with how you say emotional attachment can never be owed. It can't be forced, it has to come naturally from the interactions and shared experiences, and to that end noone can ever expect anyone to love them, or owe them love.
Agreed, but I think if there's a lot of arguing and you really dislike your parents, it's time to move out and become independent, and then maybe later you can come back and maybe the dynamics have changed. If the parents really love their son but doesn't get along with him, I don't think the son should just cut all ties for the rest of his life necessarily. While the son doesn't owe them love, I think a second chance and let things cool down is not unreasonable to ask
Generally agree with the points made. In fact I think you stress possible abuse too much - people dont owe their parents anything, even if thier parents were perfect.
100% support your right to 'defoo' if thats what you want to do. Nevertheless, I think most people are better off with having a relationship with their family (Not mwaning to imply this is true for you)
You can arbitrarily reject anyone as being abusive, if abuse means nothing more specific than anything from light inconvenience to severe bodily mutilation and killing. And similarly like rejecting some vague moral obligation of paying attention and helping your relatives, you can arbitrarily reject also any legal obligation, like e.g. that one of settling your debts. But it's also matter of arbitrary choice of anyone, how much credibility they give to those, who don't care about their relatives
@danielsondanielson Sure. And if this is an implied threat that people who believe in bullshit ideas about family won't give a shit about me, let me say that I don't give a shit about that.
@XOmniverse I don't want to threaten anyone, implicitly or explicitly. I don't give you any recommendations about your relationships to your relatives either - there are probably fellas out there, who don't give a f**k about their relatives, and yet most people would agree that they are completely happy. But opposite stories exist too - some fellas repeatedly refuse to give a shit about various categories of other people, until they generate so much loneliness, that they find it unbearable.
Sounds like you had a bad experience growing up. Things weren't perfect for me, but over all things were pretty great for me. My parents have told me I don't owe them anything.
@derfy26 no, they have no obligations... but if the parents treated their children well, and continue to treat them well, i think most would take care of their parents when they need it. Obligation to your parents is just another way of saying "parents can be as abusive as they want, but you still have to take care of them"
@Finiras People whom stay with abusive parents often do not "chose" to stay with their parents in the way that one would "chose" what to wear or buy or whom to friends with. People who were abused by their parents (or anyone for that matter) are often mentally forced to stay in those relationships. Often the fear of leaving and being brought back by force or forced to stay keep them there as well as after years and years of this happening people often do not know how to function outside of
@Finiras abusive relationships or environments. They in turn most re-learn social interaction as well as learn how to walk away from it. They don't chose to be there, part of the effect of the abuse is they are made to only understand that they have to.
@Finiras It's not that they're stupid, not that at all. I'm not stupid. I could list the things that don't make me stupid but it wouldn't fit in this box. I suffered abuse and it took me a long time after I turned 17 and joined the Army to actually turn my father off and walk away from him. I was in relationships to be controlled by that other person because I didn't even know how to function outside of what I was told to do. Not because I was stupid, but because I spent my life before hand only
@Finiras being able to do as I was told and never ever being able to do it to someone's standards. I have had to re-learn everything in my life in order to function correctly and get out of the cycle of bullshit. I couldn't even understand why it was always happening. You put that on top of having Asperger's Syndrome and you have a real lovely time figuring out relationships period.
i completely on agree on the not owing anything angle.
i have much love for my family, but at the same time i think it's crucial to recognize past abuses and present problems. like you say, you don't owe anyone a relationship. the best relationships find their bedrock in genuine trust and admiration.
There was no way to consent to life because you were not yet alive. But you yourself say you value it; so you consent in retrospect. Also, you treat them like jailers, but when you were a baby and child they provided lots of material benefits, not to mention compassion and effort. Therefore you have a duty of some sort to your parents. I hope you talk to them again.
Wow, this was really interesting. I think if you're in that place and you've made that decision then you don't need to justify it...it is what it is...someday you might feel differently but that doesn't have anything to do with now..and you might feel the same later also. For me, even if everything is not perfection, I feel real love and loyalty. I think a network of supportive people can be family for you, time will tell. Someone mentioned dropping out, our society puts a timeline on things t
@5jeanbittersweet that shouldn't have one..maybe for some travel or another experience is better and further education could be later or something independently designed... Another person was depressed or nihilistic, sometimes there are real physical or psych. reasons for this and relief exists. I forgot exactly who wrote and will try to find them, but I already feel super nosey, ha
@derfy26 he specifically did not apply it to other peoples good relationships.. it was in the video, he applied it to his particular obligation, and the right of anyone to make that determination.
@derfy26 Two things, if you and your parents reach the agreement that in exchange for paying for your education you will help them after they retire it would not be an action motivated by family obligation, it would be an action motivated by trade. If instead your parent abuses you for your whole life, pays for your education without you asking, and then uses the fact as a fulcrum to squeeze you into spending time with them on Christmas you have been hit by a moral criminal.
I think that people react strongly against your opinions because they simply don't know how to respond thoughtfully to your arguments.
Without elaborating, I personally agree with you. This year, I moved to Houston after graduating from college. My parents reacted with hostility because I was actually moving AWAY from home. In response, I laid down an ultimatum: either support me in this move, or I will cut ties with you.
Anyway, I respect you for your forthrightness in addressing this issue.
I think this video is hilarious, since it is a minority opinion that attacks a widespread culture taboo.
The premise that relationships cause people to be indentured or obligated to those that have helped or cared about you is a fucked up, irrational idea when translated to - slavery is ok when it comes to family and relationships.
Like X pretty much used examples of bad relationships, but even a loving relationship is not a legitimate grounds for mutual slavery, or obligation.
Great video, so many of my friends have Stockholm syndrome for their parents. It's bizarre how ingrained the idea of unconditional love for parents in ingrained within society.
what a coincidence. you posted this the same day that i discover my parents are never allowing me to live with them again. i have until monday. what an adventure!
@Aesir2245Amish Way to miss the point that he doesn't want to be owned so be being disowned hardly is a working threat. Probably wont be much threat to your kids either, since you are a person of values and smarts of ad hominem attacks.
Agree with the title, but it is not true that the idea of owing to the family and sticking to it is mainly about abuse. It is piece of cultural DNA that promotes survival together generally. People feel threatened by your "defoo" because you challenge that idea that is simply implanted in to them without conscious rational and is part of their identity.
The rational being the mutual benefit. When that idea is skewed in to "You owe each other", the family becomes a basket on the way to hell.
I've felt nihilistic for the past few months. I don't want to feel this way I want my life to mean something I want my life to be important, but I can't see any other alternative as realistic. I quit college because it just isn't important, it doesn't mean anything, it has no value. Not that I regret it. I know this isn't exactly much to do with the video, but I know the type of people here can help if I asked. Can anybody offer a word of advice, because I don't know what the hell to do anymore.
@damonthemoney93 Im no expert but I say just roll with it, If you start doing things that you enjoy instead you'll feel better. college is only important if thats where you wanna be, I've seen plenty of kids going to university here just because their parents made them, but if your hearts not in something, theres no point, its time and money wasted.
things dont have inherent value or meaning, we create meaning from them, If you can't find meaning in something then make it yourself.
@damonthemoney93 yeah, potentially one, or perhaps something which may inspire you to re-evaluate the way you perceive things, which could lead to your seeing values in various things. try different activities when you're high, experiment to see what sparks your creativity, etc.
Totally agree, luckily my relationship with my parents isn't so bad (I still live with them) but I hate when people try and tell me that I somehow owe my parents... it is ridiculous.
@XOmniverse If it were not for family, life would seem so empty and meaningless to me. My family is my anchor, my rock, my safe place, my refuge. Family knows me exactly as I am and loves me anyway. How sad not to have family. Friends come and go but family endures. At least, mine does. That which endures is family. That which does not, is not. How sad to not have that.
@XOmniverse Why would I want to do that? I don't even know you. I have no reason to moralize at you. I know nothing about your morals and have no opinion on them.
Nope, this is my real reaction to what you said in this video. I find your situation very sad. You asked me why and you have been answered. That is the long and the short of my input.
Well done, sir. I also felt belittled/imprisoned/bullied by my family, so once I turned 18, I saved as much money as I could and bought a one way plane ticket to the opposite coast. I never cut off ties completely, but have made it clear to them that my interaction with them is conditional depending on how I am treated. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind I still think I "owe" them something because I tolerate more from them, but NO ONE has the right to harm you just because they're "family".
are you going to discuss why you decided to break off your relationship with your parents? What advice do you have to people who aren't very attached to there parents but highly rely on them for basic necessities because they are seemingly forced into such a situation?
I'm not sure offhand that I have good advice for people who are dependent other than to suggest that, even if they think they have a good relationship with their parents, that they become independent so that they don't have that issue.
Would you considered the beating a mental or psychological beating , as well as a physical beating. I don't think that most children are in situations where there parents physically beat them, so I suspect you are also talking about 'abuses' where parents pressure or forced a child to participate in an activity that they do not wish to be involved in such as going to public school or making them go to church .
@derfy26 "Right, so if one's parents paid for the first 20 years of one's life (including one's education), then you have no obligations of helping them when they retire."
parents owe their kids, if anything. They forced their children into life, which is something you better make up to your kids. That said, I have a good relationship with my dad now that I'm older, but I have little ties to my emotionally abusive majority of my family.
DeFOOing always seemed like a rather harsh conclusion of the parent-child relationship to me. Sure, if you were harmed by your parents, then it's best for both parties if you separate. But "abuse" is thrown around so lightly today; where, to you, is the line between human imperfection that sometimes results in questionable behavior and "parental abuse" worth of deFOOing?
@Sphair0n Anything that has led to debilitating or persistent psychological turmoil can be called abuse, I think. I'm just coming up with that on the spot, so I might revise it.
@Sphair0n Just my opinion, but I think that even if a parent's action is not overtly abusive, if it has a strong negative impact on the child's functioning it's something that has to be confronted as abuse. DeFOOing is a drastic step, and it's impossible to say "this is the situation where you should deFOO". It's depends individual comfort. If a parent is clearly not interested in honesty about their history, that's when I think the relationship can't continue.
I think that ideally one should owe his father and mother something. Ideally. Meaning that they did meaningful things to support you in life and as a result you love them and care for them in return. However, I agree with XOM that the attitude of "I am obligated to them no matter what" is silly. If your family members are abusive then it is the best thing for your well-being to cut them off entirely.
Here's a related thought: if, due in part to abusive parenting, someone does not develop the skills necessary to survive independently (e.g. hold down a job) despite being an adult, and the parents then continue to take care of the adult living at home until s/he does move out, does the child owe the parents anything? Phrasing it like that makes me think that the child obviously doesn't, but I'm curious if one can argue "s/he should have been able to live independently at 18 anyway".
I had a positive relationship with my parents, but that's some stupid shit, I agree with you for those that have not had such a relationship. people on facebook are weird. I keep getting requests from my friends inviting me to games too.. (facepalm!)
I agree with you with owing nothing to families that abuse you. But what about parents who simply have bad parenting skills ?
My brother and sister really fucked up psychologically because my mom is a really bad mother, but she loves us. She sacrificed her whole life and work 60 hours a week to support us and allow us to go to college, and I think it'd be immoral to say, if one day she needs help, "Fuck you mom, I'd have been much happier if you weren't such a bad mother !"
This is the guy you deleted (where you talk about at 2:20). I was just looking out for you, man. It's one thing if you kept the issue to yourself, but you made it public (including to others you'd never met in person or even at all) giving people incentive to discuss their own feelings on the situation. That's just how things work. If everyone agreed with me on everything I ever thought or did, it would be no different than being alone.
tweekin001 4 months ago
Some of the things you said, 'generally speaking and without detail' may have met a moral standard, but not an ethically, But once I got a bit more background I think it's important to understand that different situations call for different actions. I personally believe if you are wronged in such a way that apparently you were, then sure leave without word, but if you were not wronged leaving one who has invested in you emotionally calls for explanation IMHO.
ShadeToSun 5 months ago
Actually, you owe your father the $16,000 dollars you stole, you utter cretin.
NaturalGrace 7 months ago
@NaturalGrace If you might consider it, watch a video I did called Skeletons in my Closet, wherein I debunked my brother's bogus story. Feel free to post it in that Something Awful thread, along with the fact that I never took out a loan while I was not in school and the fact that I consistently make full payments on the loans.
You know, if honesty is important to you.
XOmniverse 7 months ago 2
I'm sorry that your relationship with your parents sucked. I don't believe the issue at hand here is debt. It's loyalty.
Loyalty deals more in trust than financial ties. If your parents abuse you, (and I wouldn't qualify public school as abuse... in most instances,) then you don't owe them your trust or your respect. They took care of you, sure... but not well.
They were required by law to feed you. If they did that AND provided a supportive relationship, that merits loyalty/respect.
Ganman33 7 months ago
I'm pretty sure that "forcing you to go to public school" is not abuse.
JasonThePure 7 months ago 3
@JasonThePure Your unsubstantiated claim is noted.
XOmniverse 7 months ago
i don't feel that i owe my parents anything....but i want to give back as much as they gave me throughout life, including love.
but just wondering, through the logic, does this mean that we don't owe anybody anything because they decided to do something for us?
should we reward good deeds that we don't ask for?
also, if parents were perfect, how would that prepare us for the real world??
48073419900127 9 months ago
I would make a slight correction from the standpoint of a parent: you close by saying emotional attachment is not something you can owe as a debt, but I think this is actually something we owe our children; indeed, if we are psychologically incapable of forming an emotional attachment, then at least we owe them our very best efforts to heal and provide as much empathy and connection as possible
gottogochild 1 year ago
@gottogochild I'd have to do a whole video on the subject, but I wouldn't say parents owe that to their children so much as failing to give that to their children would actually do psychological damage to both the children and the parents. I think we see ourselves through others, and that this causes abuse directed at others to always be abuse directed at ourselves at the same time.
I agree with the basic essence of what you said though. Parents should be good parents :)
XOmniverse 1 year ago
Parents chose to have you
Parents chose to look after you
Parents dont owe you anything anymore then you owe them something
Cut your parents off as quickly as you can....I cut mine out of my life as much as I can because they just dont get me
dandylions11 1 year ago
Great vid, sweet hair
KeepGoing11235 1 year ago
As far as I'm concerned parents are PEOPLE. I treat all people equally. Including the parents lol. If they get out of line then they get the same ramifications lol Good vid
mmamolina 1 year ago
Interesting. For me 'owe' is not a word that I would have connected with 'family'. It seems like the statement by its very formulation seeks to restrict explanations of familial relationships to inadequate mercantile terms – and I am left wondering why this may be?
I have never considered that I 'owe' my family anything. The notion is as meaningful to me pondering what triangles may taste like...
CeltoSaxonKnight 1 year ago
Marquis de Sade felt the same way.
EnochEmery251 1 year ago
Abusive relationships happen in families. However, you cannot equate abusive relationships with parental ones. Though spot-on in how to deal with abusive relationships-sever contact, do not blame yourself, etc-your logic falls apart where you assume that all parents are abusive. (And does forcing you to go to school count as abusive? Perhaps not.) If yours were, honestly I applaud your hardiness, but you cannot take all your conclusions about abusive relationships and apply them to all parents.
MustBeMidnight 1 year ago
@MustBeMidnight I don't apply them to all parents. Just most. We live, in many ways, in a relatively sick society.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
You are absolutely right. Kudos
yupiie 1 year ago
so you had a bad relationship with your folks?
fede2 1 year ago
The very last sentence sounded sarcastic :D have you been disillusioned by the youtube community?
Mastikator 1 year ago
I love this video. I kind of wish I could sever contact with my parents, but I have sympathy for them in some small amount and I think it would hurt them.
juliecranford 1 year ago
To me family is everything... I owe them in the sense that I will do anything to protect that bond from external threats. However I agree there is no obligation to trash- many of my biological family mean nothing to me- an entire branch even disowned me. I took abuse off them and society as a child... I have nothing but pity and disgust for them. It's funny how most people extend the "family obligation" to the State. The gov't is a raging/raping/murdering/thieving alcoholic parent- fuck em all.
ProdigalSonofLiberty 1 year ago
@RayWilliamJohnston LOL! Well, you're OK in my book. Your comment really made me laugh. :)
SSanf 1 year ago
@RayWilliamJohnston Who, me? My 45 year old daughter is living on her own and running her own Engineering company. My youngest son, 27, is here only to save money on rent while he finishes up college. He went out on his own at the age of 18 and supported himself for over 7 years before deciding to return to school. Don't presume to know our circumstances. You don't.
SSanf 1 year ago
But, yes, we have a functional family. We do help each other out. It makes life better for us all not having to go it alone.
SSanf 1 year ago
But either way I really agree with how you say emotional attachment can never be owed. It can't be forced, it has to come naturally from the interactions and shared experiences, and to that end noone can ever expect anyone to love them, or owe them love.
coaxx 1 year ago
Agreed, but I think if there's a lot of arguing and you really dislike your parents, it's time to move out and become independent, and then maybe later you can come back and maybe the dynamics have changed. If the parents really love their son but doesn't get along with him, I don't think the son should just cut all ties for the rest of his life necessarily. While the son doesn't owe them love, I think a second chance and let things cool down is not unreasonable to ask
coaxx 1 year ago
the reflection of your computer screen in your glasses makes it look like you have awesome robot eyes or something.
DemonPacman 1 year ago
Generally agree with the points made. In fact I think you stress possible abuse too much - people dont owe their parents anything, even if thier parents were perfect.
100% support your right to 'defoo' if thats what you want to do. Nevertheless, I think most people are better off with having a relationship with their family (Not mwaning to imply this is true for you)
KoreaForeigner 1 year ago
You can arbitrarily reject anyone as being abusive, if abuse means nothing more specific than anything from light inconvenience to severe bodily mutilation and killing. And similarly like rejecting some vague moral obligation of paying attention and helping your relatives, you can arbitrarily reject also any legal obligation, like e.g. that one of settling your debts. But it's also matter of arbitrary choice of anyone, how much credibility they give to those, who don't care about their relatives
danielsondanielson 1 year ago
@danielsondanielson Sure. And if this is an implied threat that people who believe in bullshit ideas about family won't give a shit about me, let me say that I don't give a shit about that.
Everybody wins :)
XOmniverse 1 year ago
@XOmniverse I don't want to threaten anyone, implicitly or explicitly. I don't give you any recommendations about your relationships to your relatives either - there are probably fellas out there, who don't give a f**k about their relatives, and yet most people would agree that they are completely happy. But opposite stories exist too - some fellas repeatedly refuse to give a shit about various categories of other people, until they generate so much loneliness, that they find it unbearable.
danielsondanielson 1 year ago
@derfy26 He's not saying that you SHOULD NOT help them.
j3rdog 1 year ago
Sounds like you had a bad experience growing up. Things weren't perfect for me, but over all things were pretty great for me. My parents have told me I don't owe them anything.
SpazzzDog 1 year ago
@derfy26 "education" is tricky thing. I wouldn't call public schools an "education". It's more like indoctrination, or re-education.
MaikUniversum 1 year ago
I agree with you 99 percent, great vid
MaikUniversum 1 year ago
people and their fucking morals. i hate "ought to" people. damn them.
sydmarissa 1 year ago
@derfy26 no, they have no obligations... but if the parents treated their children well, and continue to treat them well, i think most would take care of their parents when they need it. Obligation to your parents is just another way of saying "parents can be as abusive as they want, but you still have to take care of them"
Finiras 1 year ago
I agree with you on everything... i think it's stupid to stay with abusive parents, but most people do it anyway
Finiras 1 year ago
@Finiras People whom stay with abusive parents often do not "chose" to stay with their parents in the way that one would "chose" what to wear or buy or whom to friends with. People who were abused by their parents (or anyone for that matter) are often mentally forced to stay in those relationships. Often the fear of leaving and being brought back by force or forced to stay keep them there as well as after years and years of this happening people often do not know how to function outside of
rabbitalmighty 1 year ago
@Finiras abusive relationships or environments. They in turn most re-learn social interaction as well as learn how to walk away from it. They don't chose to be there, part of the effect of the abuse is they are made to only understand that they have to.
rabbitalmighty 1 year ago
@rabbitalmighty yeah, people aren't stupid, they just don't understand how to not be stupid.
...
Finiras 1 year ago
@Finiras It's not that they're stupid, not that at all. I'm not stupid. I could list the things that don't make me stupid but it wouldn't fit in this box. I suffered abuse and it took me a long time after I turned 17 and joined the Army to actually turn my father off and walk away from him. I was in relationships to be controlled by that other person because I didn't even know how to function outside of what I was told to do. Not because I was stupid, but because I spent my life before hand only
rabbitalmighty 1 year ago
@Finiras being able to do as I was told and never ever being able to do it to someone's standards. I have had to re-learn everything in my life in order to function correctly and get out of the cycle of bullshit. I couldn't even understand why it was always happening. You put that on top of having Asperger's Syndrome and you have a real lovely time figuring out relationships period.
rabbitalmighty 1 year ago
@Finiras Rather, it has nothing to do with stupidity.
rabbitalmighty 1 year ago
i completely on agree on the not owing anything angle.
i have much love for my family, but at the same time i think it's crucial to recognize past abuses and present problems. like you say, you don't owe anyone a relationship. the best relationships find their bedrock in genuine trust and admiration.
junior00bacon00chee 1 year ago
"this is the first time i've done a video on this since i've done it"
i love sentences like that.
junior00bacon00chee 1 year ago
@junior00bacon00chee hahaha.
MaikUniversum 1 year ago
There was no way to consent to life because you were not yet alive. But you yourself say you value it; so you consent in retrospect. Also, you treat them like jailers, but when you were a baby and child they provided lots of material benefits, not to mention compassion and effort. Therefore you have a duty of some sort to your parents. I hope you talk to them again.
kindalyosha 1 year ago
@kindalyosha I don't think valuing something is an indication of consent. Also, they didn't provide me much compassion.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
De-food. LOL
WeAreDevo456 1 year ago
Wow, this was really interesting. I think if you're in that place and you've made that decision then you don't need to justify it...it is what it is...someday you might feel differently but that doesn't have anything to do with now..and you might feel the same later also. For me, even if everything is not perfection, I feel real love and loyalty. I think a network of supportive people can be family for you, time will tell. Someone mentioned dropping out, our society puts a timeline on things t
5jeanbittersweet 1 year ago
@5jeanbittersweet that shouldn't have one..maybe for some travel or another experience is better and further education could be later or something independently designed... Another person was depressed or nihilistic, sometimes there are real physical or psych. reasons for this and relief exists. I forgot exactly who wrote and will try to find them, but I already feel super nosey, ha
5jeanbittersweet 1 year ago
@derfy26 he specifically did not apply it to other peoples good relationships.. it was in the video, he applied it to his particular obligation, and the right of anyone to make that determination.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@derfy26 Two things, if you and your parents reach the agreement that in exchange for paying for your education you will help them after they retire it would not be an action motivated by family obligation, it would be an action motivated by trade. If instead your parent abuses you for your whole life, pays for your education without you asking, and then uses the fact as a fulcrum to squeeze you into spending time with them on Christmas you have been hit by a moral criminal.
i2aymond 1 year ago
I think that people react strongly against your opinions because they simply don't know how to respond thoughtfully to your arguments.
Without elaborating, I personally agree with you. This year, I moved to Houston after graduating from college. My parents reacted with hostility because I was actually moving AWAY from home. In response, I laid down an ultimatum: either support me in this move, or I will cut ties with you.
Anyway, I respect you for your forthrightness in addressing this issue.
nasbster915 1 year ago
Your eyes look scary as shit dude
TheJacolyte 1 year ago
@TheJacolyte
yeah the computer screen is reflecting perfectly over the glasses. weird how that sort of thing happens.
junior00bacon00chee 1 year ago
@junior00bacon00chee Haha, yeah, it just so happens that he looks like some kind of demon as a result.
TheJacolyte 1 year ago
I think this video is hilarious, since it is a minority opinion that attacks a widespread culture taboo.
The premise that relationships cause people to be indentured or obligated to those that have helped or cared about you is a fucked up, irrational idea when translated to - slavery is ok when it comes to family and relationships.
Like X pretty much used examples of bad relationships, but even a loving relationship is not a legitimate grounds for mutual slavery, or obligation.
Sparkygravity 1 year ago
Great video, so many of my friends have Stockholm syndrome for their parents. It's bizarre how ingrained the idea of unconditional love for parents in ingrained within society.
kvan1917 1 year ago
what a coincidence. you posted this the same day that i discover my parents are never allowing me to live with them again. i have until monday. what an adventure!
borderlinebuddhist 1 year ago
man if my kid looked like this i'd disown him before he could move
get a job + haircut
Aesir2245Amish 1 year ago
@Aesir2245Amish Way to miss the point that he doesn't want to be owned so be being disowned hardly is a working threat. Probably wont be much threat to your kids either, since you are a person of values and smarts of ad hominem attacks.
esaman 1 year ago
Why do you say almost no families are healthy?
qtutoringhelps 1 year ago
Agree with the title, but it is not true that the idea of owing to the family and sticking to it is mainly about abuse. It is piece of cultural DNA that promotes survival together generally. People feel threatened by your "defoo" because you challenge that idea that is simply implanted in to them without conscious rational and is part of their identity.
The rational being the mutual benefit. When that idea is skewed in to "You owe each other", the family becomes a basket on the way to hell.
esaman 1 year ago
You made me think about the family I was raised in. Thanks for sharing.
pgm98387 1 year ago
I've felt nihilistic for the past few months. I don't want to feel this way I want my life to mean something I want my life to be important, but I can't see any other alternative as realistic. I quit college because it just isn't important, it doesn't mean anything, it has no value. Not that I regret it. I know this isn't exactly much to do with the video, but I know the type of people here can help if I asked. Can anybody offer a word of advice, because I don't know what the hell to do anymore.
damonthemoney93 1 year ago
@damonthemoney93 Im no expert but I say just roll with it, If you start doing things that you enjoy instead you'll feel better. college is only important if thats where you wanna be, I've seen plenty of kids going to university here just because their parents made them, but if your hearts not in something, theres no point, its time and money wasted.
things dont have inherent value or meaning, we create meaning from them, If you can't find meaning in something then make it yourself.
universalJok3r 1 year ago
@damonthemoney93 have you ever tried using cannabis?
joby92 1 year ago
@joby92 is that a solution? because I smoke a fair bit already
damonthemoney93 1 year ago
@damonthemoney93 yeah, potentially one, or perhaps something which may inspire you to re-evaluate the way you perceive things, which could lead to your seeing values in various things. try different activities when you're high, experiment to see what sparks your creativity, etc.
joby92 1 year ago
Willem Defoo great writer (Robinson crusoe etc.) ups..wrong spelling
Neueregel 1 year ago
Great anology with the puppy, out of all the logic shed on the inherit virtue of the family I think this one works best. Thanks for sharing
TheGodofAtheists 1 year ago
Totally agree, luckily my relationship with my parents isn't so bad (I still live with them) but I hate when people try and tell me that I somehow owe my parents... it is ridiculous.
UnschoolingEagle 1 year ago
Wow! This is one of the happiest videos that I have ever seen.
theVAGINAntichrist 1 year ago
Good video, completely agree.
TheObjectiveReality 1 year ago
Wow! This is one of the saddest videos that I have ever seen.
SSanf 1 year ago
@SSanf How so?
XOmniverse 1 year ago
@XOmniverse If it were not for family, life would seem so empty and meaningless to me. My family is my anchor, my rock, my safe place, my refuge. Family knows me exactly as I am and loves me anyway. How sad not to have family. Friends come and go but family endures. At least, mine does. That which endures is family. That which does not, is not. How sad to not have that.
SSanf 1 year ago
@SSanf This really comes across like a passive aggressive attempt to moralize at me disguised as empathy. Any comments on that perception?
XOmniverse 1 year ago
@XOmniverse Why would I want to do that? I don't even know you. I have no reason to moralize at you. I know nothing about your morals and have no opinion on them.
Nope, this is my real reaction to what you said in this video. I find your situation very sad. You asked me why and you have been answered. That is the long and the short of my input.
SSanf 1 year ago
Well done, sir. I also felt belittled/imprisoned/bullied by my family, so once I turned 18, I saved as much money as I could and bought a one way plane ticket to the opposite coast. I never cut off ties completely, but have made it clear to them that my interaction with them is conditional depending on how I am treated. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind I still think I "owe" them something because I tolerate more from them, but NO ONE has the right to harm you just because they're "family".
TheExRepublican 1 year ago
As a follower on Facebook, I totally agree with you about earning respect. My parents hit me, made me go through public school, and the rest.
Yet, I also found that my parents were the easiest to persuade about all of this stuff. I guess I'm lucky.
My parents also had bad parents; where does the buck stop?
chitchcott 1 year ago
@chitchcott It stops with you.
UnschoolingEagle 1 year ago
@UnschoolingEagle Well said
chitchcott 1 year ago
Your such a radical.
greenghost2008 1 year ago
I respect your choice, At first i thought you were insane but you made alot of sens.
Do you pick new parents/have really close friends? Do you intent on getting the safty net that parents for many act as?
If you dont mind me asking.
rafen8705 1 year ago
@rafen8705 I'm an adult, so I'm not going to look for surrogate parents; that would be a bit odd.
I intend for my small but growing social network to function as a family or tribe, basically.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
are you going to discuss why you decided to break off your relationship with your parents? What advice do you have to people who aren't very attached to there parents but highly rely on them for basic necessities because they are seemingly forced into such a situation?
Pentazoid111 1 year ago
@Pentazoid111 For question 1, I'm not sure. Maybe.
I'm not sure offhand that I have good advice for people who are dependent other than to suggest that, even if they think they have a good relationship with their parents, that they become independent so that they don't have that issue.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
Would you considered the beating a mental or psychological beating , as well as a physical beating. I don't think that most children are in situations where there parents physically beat them, so I suspect you are also talking about 'abuses' where parents pressure or forced a child to participate in an activity that they do not wish to be involved in such as going to public school or making them go to church .
Pentazoid111 1 year ago
We were brought into this world at a whim. Our parents created us for their own pleasure, for their own satisfaction. Life itself is an imposition
SecularNumanist 1 year ago
the reason people dont like the idea of defooing is because humans are social creatures, and we are wired to stay with our family.
endauthority 1 year ago
@derfy26 "Right, so if one's parents paid for the first 20 years of one's life (including one's education), then you have no obligations of helping them when they retire."
Correct.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
parents owe their kids, if anything. They forced their children into life, which is something you better make up to your kids. That said, I have a good relationship with my dad now that I'm older, but I have little ties to my emotionally abusive majority of my family.
OneDayWeAreFree 1 year ago
DeFOOing always seemed like a rather harsh conclusion of the parent-child relationship to me. Sure, if you were harmed by your parents, then it's best for both parties if you separate. But "abuse" is thrown around so lightly today; where, to you, is the line between human imperfection that sometimes results in questionable behavior and "parental abuse" worth of deFOOing?
Sphair0n 1 year ago
@Sphair0n Anything that has led to debilitating or persistent psychological turmoil can be called abuse, I think. I'm just coming up with that on the spot, so I might revise it.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
@Sphair0n Just my opinion, but I think that even if a parent's action is not overtly abusive, if it has a strong negative impact on the child's functioning it's something that has to be confronted as abuse. DeFOOing is a drastic step, and it's impossible to say "this is the situation where you should deFOO". It's depends individual comfort. If a parent is clearly not interested in honesty about their history, that's when I think the relationship can't continue.
AshleyKScott 1 year ago
@AshleyKScott "If a parent is clearly not interested in honesty about their history"
I think this is the crucial distinction. Both of my parents have had opportunity (and still do) to do that and have not done so.
XOmniverse 1 year ago
@XOmniverse Yeah, I mean if there's no honesty there can be no trust and therefore no real relationship.
AshleyKScott 1 year ago
Nice vid bro.
Diphenhydramine94 1 year ago
I think that ideally one should owe his father and mother something. Ideally. Meaning that they did meaningful things to support you in life and as a result you love them and care for them in return. However, I agree with XOM that the attitude of "I am obligated to them no matter what" is silly. If your family members are abusive then it is the best thing for your well-being to cut them off entirely.
chapaev36 1 year ago
Here's a related thought: if, due in part to abusive parenting, someone does not develop the skills necessary to survive independently (e.g. hold down a job) despite being an adult, and the parents then continue to take care of the adult living at home until s/he does move out, does the child owe the parents anything? Phrasing it like that makes me think that the child obviously doesn't, but I'm curious if one can argue "s/he should have been able to live independently at 18 anyway".
jparagons 1 year ago
I had a positive relationship with my parents, but that's some stupid shit, I agree with you for those that have not had such a relationship. people on facebook are weird. I keep getting requests from my friends inviting me to games too.. (facepalm!)
GalinorGustave 1 year ago
Your beard is lopsided and distracting. You gotta straighten that shit out.
CentristRevolution 1 year ago
I agree with you with owing nothing to families that abuse you. But what about parents who simply have bad parenting skills ?
My brother and sister really fucked up psychologically because my mom is a really bad mother, but she loves us. She sacrificed her whole life and work 60 hours a week to support us and allow us to go to college, and I think it'd be immoral to say, if one day she needs help, "Fuck you mom, I'd have been much happier if you weren't such a bad mother !"
MrKiromunist 1 year ago
Don't fuck with me; I know defoo!
gint 1 year ago 10
How goes with the weightlifting? I just watched one of your old videos, you've changed massively.
Sivels 1 year ago
And the funny y thing about "owing your parents" and how serious the matter is, is that parents seem to forget how much fun it was to get a baby.
Gettinghitonattheban 1 year ago
What about carrying on your lineage, even of your own means?
jewfroisshaven 1 year ago
Well I mean it depends on what you define as family.
Gettinghitonattheban 1 year ago