Huckabee versus Romney

[phillip84109]

Anyone who supports Huckabee because they think he is an honest guy and a straight shooter should watch this video.

[nalcow]

Romney just arrogant.. he thinks he has all the right answers for all the issues.

[phillip84109]

@nalcow Well, Romney has the competency and the experience. He also knows his facts. Look at the video: in the end, Hucakbee had to admit that Romney was right on the facts.

[phillip84109]

Romney is great. As the debates got smaller and people were able to speak for more than 30 seconds and actually have a back and forth, Romney shined.

Mitt Romney 2012.

[phillip84109]

That's the difference between the two. You could make the argument that Romney was taking facts out of context (I disagree but we can at least debate it), but you cannot deny that the facts are 100% accurate.

Huckabee did issue over 1,000 pardons and commutations as governor.

Huckabee did raise taxes in Ark. by a net of $500 million.

Romney didn't flat out lie about the actual facts. Huckabee did.

Seriously, do you deny that Romney left a surplus in Mass.?

[chukmaty]

Most of which have worked great and were called for. Sentencing very often was uneven and inconsistent and then there were those who had served their punishment and needed to get a job. Huckabee saw something like 10X the cases Romney did, rejecting about 90% of them.

$500 million in tax hikes, and $800 million in budget surplus, which went to tax cuts after he left office. So technically he didn't raise taxes if you include how he left the state.

Romney didn't lie, he just raped the truth.

[chukmaty]

Huckabee did not outright lie. I am surprise that you think that Romney's MLK march statement was a mistake, while when Huckabee talks about one event in his long twn years as Governor inaccurately and prints a retraction on his campaign website with a full correction less than a day later, it is a lie.

Huckabee did not lie, he made a mistake and printed a retraction. You have a personal need for Huckabee to beg for forgiveness, this need is absent in Romney's case. Double standard Phil.

[coolkid242]

Huckabee is very dishonest in this video. Both with his attacks on Romney and his dodging of the facts about his own record.

It was bad enough that he evaded the questions, but too flat out lie about why he raised taxes is ridiculous.

[phillip84109]

Huckabee is even a better liar than Bill Clinton. And that's saying something!

[chukmaty]

You fail man, saying something that ridiculous only shows you have a personal bias that is pretty intense.

[Drahthaar422]

It's pretty obvious what Mitt's trying to do here. He's trying to get Huckabee to say "Yes, I raised taxes" and then not allow him to explain and the moderator would then move on.

[NotoHuckabee2012]

No, on the campaign trail Huckabee had accused Romney of lying in his ads. In that context, the moderator asked Huckabee about the tax claims in Romney's ad. Huckabee defended his record, citing the number of times he had cut taxes. So Romney pointed out that the net effect of the tax increases and cuts combined is a tax increase of half a billion dollars, so it doesn't matter how many times he cut taxes - it's misleading of Huck, but he did it all the time on the campaign trail.

[chukmaty]

Oh hey, you suck... N2H12...

[NotoHuckabee2012]

That's uncharacteristic of you. You're a good guy chukmaty and you have good videos. One day you will agree with me on Huckabee. Unfortunately, I won't be able to convince you - you'll have to see on your own.

[chukmaty]

You blocked me from your vids, that is why you suck ;)

Unblock me, and you will unsuck.

[NotoHuckabee2012]

chukmaty, you can still view them is that right?

[chukmaty]

Yes, I can. Oh, and they suck, like you do ;)

I am trying to remember the profanity laced tirade that would have earned me the distinguished honor of being blocked, but it is not coming to me. typically I only block conspiracy theorists, racists, and particularly foul mouthed trolls from my channel... not people who passionately disagree with me.

Your channel, your rules but you still suck.

[phillip84109]

The context of this was that Huckabee was claiming that Romney was lying about him raising taxes in Arkansas.

Romney was just defending himself.

[chukmaty]

Not fair imo to say Romney lied, he just omitted an awful lot of context in going after Huckabee's record and in talking about how his record compared.

[chukmaty]

However, Romney massively took Huckabee's record out of context. Just the fact that government is dramatically smaller to begin with in Arkansas than in Massachusetts for starters.

Romney initiated the engagement, it is fair to compare records, but Romney should have been honest about the context if he was serious about a true comparison. Huckabee was hardly perfect, but I generally side with Huckabee in these debates.

[ConservativeMother]

Where did Romney take Huckabee's record "massively" out of context? The fact that Huckabee granted over 1,000 pardons and commutations as governor is true. How can you take that out of context?

Again, the tax raises were not taken out of context. The whole court order thing is 100% bull. His own campaign had to admit that. Why do you cling to that bogus explanation?

You can agree with Huckabee that raising taxes was justified, that's a legitimate debate. What's not legit is lying about it.

[chukmaty]

You can take it out of context by failing to note the number of requests Huckabee had compared to Romney, Huckabee got far more in a far smaller state, denying a huge majority of them. Many of the pardon's and commutations were for post prison offenders who wanted the crime off of their record so they could get employment and provide for themselves, Huckabee is also unusual in that he aggressively went after sentences that more harsh than the crime normally warranted.

[NotoHuckabee2012]

So far, nine percent of Huck's clemency cases have gone on to re-offend, ending up back in prison. That's not leadership, it's stubborn stupidity. When employers aren't allowed to know the truth about who they are hiring, they are at risk. Huckabee essentially said he knew better than the employers and didn't think they deserved to consider the facts.

It's these sort of unreasonable spam comments of yours that got you blocked.

[NotoHuckabee2012]

Huckabee made a career out of telling other people what to think, as a preacher. Then he wanted to be governor and now president. He obviously likes having power. That's why he granted so much clemency and signed off on so much execution - those are the two things the governor could do to exercise absolute power.

[chukmaty]

Actually I think the reason you blocked me has a lot more to do with the fact that we disagreed for a while via face book comments, that is not spam bro. I never copy and paste, and I bet you make more Huckabee related comments and videos that I do. If I am spamming, what is it that you are doing?

And approving 8% of the requests for pardon, mostly from people who were finished with their sentences probably lowered crime as a person with a job is less likely to commit crime.

[phillip84109]

We can argue the merits of Huckabee's policies on taxes or commutations. That's a legitimate argument.

My point is that Huckabee has been dishonest in the debate.

He lied about why he raised taxes in Arkansas.

But the bigger lie was on the commutation of Maurice Clemmons' sentence.

He said there was no evidence that he displayed violent behavior. That was not true.

He either lied about what was in the record, or he lied about having read the record. He still won't admit he made a mistake.

[chukmaty]

The reason you have Huckabee sticking with unconventional policies even when criticized is that he was not a lawyer politician (neither was Romney which was a huge plus for him), he was the anti Clinton in almost every respect. If he thought that a plitically unpopular decision was right, he went forward with it anyway. Some call this arrogant, people said similar things of Churchill, Thatcher, Reaan, and Truman btw. I call it leadership. Willingness to put one's name on the dotted line.

[chukmaty]

This character of leadership manifested itself in fighting for school consolidation, forcing democrats to cut budget before raising taxes (this can be seen in the full speech were Huckabee "asks for more taxes"), and going out on a limb by creating the "tax me more fund" to mock individuals who wanted to grow government.

This also is seen in his willingness to touch the third rail of criminal justice, using his executive powers to right the wrong of disproportionate sentencing for criminals.

[phillip84109]

You're just illustrating Huckabee's duplicity. He raises taxes in Arkansas, then creates a "tax me more fund" to make it appear like he's actually on the side of the taxpayer.

That makes me less likely to support the Huckster; not more likely.

[chukmaty]

Oh Phillip, you have an incredibly simplistic outlook on all of this... I am finished trying to change your mind. Go ahead and vote for someone else.

[phillip84109]

Once again you make charges but give no evidence.

It's not overly simplistic. Huckabee was either lying or not. On both the tax issue and the clemency issue, he didn't just misspeak, he kept dodging the truth and making stuff up.

He didn't just misspeak about the commutation of Maurice Celmons' sentence. He has lied over and over again on numerous occasions.

He is either lying or incredibly ignorant of the facts.

[chukmaty]

Actually it is simplistic. When in a debate format, it is often the goal of one person to get the other into a tight spot by forcing them to make an admittion out of context. Romney was doing this here, it was disingenuous, but hardly uncommon.

Also, seeing as it was in a past election cycle, it is water under the bridge, calling Romney a douche and a loser would be infantile at this point... Not understanding how a debate works makes you look simplistic and silly.

[chukmaty]

It is too bad, we would probably agree on a lot, but it is a peeve of mine for people to call good governors and fellow conservatives liars flippantly. I could call all the Republicans on that stage liars by the standard you apply to Huckabee (and seemingly you do not call Romney a liar when he did the same as Huckabee, hmmm)) but I don't. Why? Because it is simply beyond immature.

I got over Romney, Thompson, and McCain a long time ago... time for you to get over Huckabee.

[TheRomney2012]

Perhaps the reason it is a peeve of yours is that you have no response to it and end up visibly frustrated.

Focus on what you want to say, not on how mean you think Philip is to Huckabee.

[chukmaty]

Right, there is no response to a statement that is solely a result of an unreasonable bias which is largely emotional in nature. Reasoning does not work, because reason was never foundation for calling a good governor "a liar" flippantly and not calling another good governor the same adjective even though they were not all that dramatically different in terms of what they offered up in the debates.

I have a disdain for people who call Romney and Huckabee liars, they are both great men.

[phillip84109]

It's not unreasonable to call Huckabee a liar. I do not make it flippantly. I just look at the facts.

None of the other candidates were as dishonest.

I know It happened two hears ago but it is still relevant because both men are probably going to run again in 2012.

[chukmaty]

How about Romney who did not retract his ads after it was shown by thrid party sources that he extensively raised fees in his state?

Or Thompson, who ran an attack ad of Huckabee were he "asked" for new taxes, when the whole speech would have fully explained the scenario.

Campaigns are messy, I do not think Huckabee was intentionally dishonest, I am not really even sold on the other campaign being so either... it is what it is, Huckabee hardly sticks out.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty

I'll have to look into the Romney fee thing.

I checked out the bogus deficit claim Huckabee leveled at Romney and I know that was wrong.

The incoming Democratic governor projected a deficit because he said revenues were going to go down because he (like many other Democrats) was saying the economy was going to tank in 2007. Romney's forecast for '07 relied on revenue staying close to '05 and '06 numbers, which it did.

Huckabee should have known better when he made that claim.

[chukmaty]

The only real difference between Huckabee campaign and the other campaigns is that Huckabee had not surrogates (unless you count Chuck Norris), and he made attacks himself. Romney and Thompson used ads, mailers, and surrogates... not that I blame them, Huckabee would have if he could have.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty As I said above about the phony deficit claim Huckabee made, Huckabee has a track record being dishonest with the facts. He chose the Democrat's deficit projection over Romney's surplus projection for '07 because it fit his narrative (never mind that by Jan '08 he could have easily verified that Romney's projected budget was the accurate one).

Therefore, I don't trust Huckabee's claims.

Having said that, I will look into the fee amount in Massachusetts.

[chukmaty]

Not trusting a politician to be exact is probably a good policy, why do you trust Romney more? Given his convenient change of position regarding the right to life? Just be honest and admit you are cutting Romney slack were you refuse to budge an inch on Huckabee. Just be honest, neither candidate has a record you find to be perfect, and they both said things in the campaign that apparently do not match up with their record.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty I'm holding both to the same standard. There are many instances I've given where Huckabee has either flat out lied or misrepresented the facts.

If Romney was being dishonest on the fees, then it would be the first time I've seen him do so.

I dont' agree with Romney on everything, but there is a difference between that and out and out lying.

No double standard. For example, I think that Thompson and Guiliani were both basically honest about the facts also.

[chukmaty]

No Phillip, you are not holding them to the same standard. I mentioned a host of areas were if you applied the same measuring stick, you would have to condemn Romney as you have condemned Huckabee.

Going over taxes and fees is particularly funny, considering how different the budgets and political environments of both states are.

Speaking of lying, did Romney actually see his father march with Martin Luther King Jr? Life long hunter? Respectfully Phillip, you are applying a double standard.

[phillip84109]

I hold them both to the same standard.

Both politicians cherry pick the facts that support them. The difference is that Huckabee flat out lies about facts when it suits him and Romney doesn't.

Every claim Romney made about Huckabee was factually accurate.

Huckabee flat out lied about Romney:

having a deficit in Mass;

supporting abortion co-pays.

There is absolutely no evidence to support either of these claims. None.

Name one thing Romney said about Huckabee that was false. ONE thing.

[chukmaty]

"I hold them both to the same standard."

It is very obvious that you don't. Your intellectual dishonesty saddens me more because you are not a left wing nutcase but a fellow conservative.

Neither candidate is a liar, and neither is perfect. Relatively speaking, I believe Huckabee ran a more honest and transparent campaign, he also was challenged more by the media than Romney. But I am biased, so I will give Romney the benefit of the doubt.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty Man, you are so far in the tank for Huckabee. I cant' believe you think Huckabee was more honest than Romney.

Don't take my word for it. Conservative media railed against Huckabee for his dishonesty. From Ann Coulter to Mark Levin. These are people who do this for a living and I trust to do thorough research. What's more, they backed up what I already knew.

Even someone like Michael Medved, who was an adamant defender of Huckabee, had to realize that he's a liar. And he LOVED Huck.

[chukmaty]

Lol, you are too trusting. Considering that a lot o commentators favor a candidate for personal reasons ahead of time.

I like Michael Medved to, but Huckabee was not his first choice, and he has been critical of most of the candidates.

I guess I am just not an extremist like you, I try to see each for what they are. Strengths and flaws. I think this is why I am surprised and disappointed less, I don't expect perfection from human beings.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty There is a big difference between Romney and Huckabee. Romney is basically honest and Huckabee is not. Look at the facts.

You sound like those people who say "there's no difference between the two parties."

My view is not extreme. I think Huck was an okay governor but even for a politician, he is dishonest. Was there a difference between Nixon and Reagan? Of course. Clinton and Bush? Yes. I don't agree with Bush, but he was basically honest. Clinton was not.

[chukmaty]

The difference between Romney and Huckabee is razor thin. You make it out as extreme, it isn't night and day. A person could easily like one or the other. The gymnastics you are going through to make one look radically different than the other is mildly entertaining, you deserve a gold medal.

I am not being critical, I was much the same just several years back.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty Most politicians embellish the facts, especially to puff themselves up, but that's different than flat out lying.

Also, what's with the personal attacks? You're starting to call me names. You never did that before. Usually when that happens that means the other side is losing the argument. It's nothing vulgar or anything, but still.

[chukmaty]

I am sorry if you think I am calling you names. But let us be blunt. You are employing an obvious double standard. Romney is just mistaken while Huckabee is a liar? You have got to be kidding me. Especially when Huckabee printed a retraction/correction later.

Sorry dude, your leading yourself pickle. In 2012 and beyond, I will be looking at what people offer then not in the past campaign.

I am sorry you are bitter, and you are bitter, but I have better things to do that bicker with you.

[phillip84109]

My main problem moving forward is that Huckabee keeps dishonestly tearing down the man I think will be the best president for our country. He constantly slams Romney every chance he gets.

In his first book since the election, Huckabee excoriated Romney. In Mitt's book, he doesn't say anything bad about Huckabee.

In fact, Mitt has always taken the high road. Even when goaded by others. Romney's a class act. Maybe it's time I followed his example. Good luck, Chukmaty. I wish you well.

[chukmaty]

Mitt has not always taken the high road. I sympathize with you though, I felt the exact same thing about Romney during the election. I wish Huckabee would avoid criticizing Romney, even when he may be right, it comes off as really immature. Props to Romney for putting his old feuds with McCain, Thompson, and Huckabee behind him.

[phillip84109]

We'll just have to agree to disagree about a lot of this stuff; but it is important to focus on moving forward and actually solving our country's problems.

First stop: Stopping this Health care debacle. Have you called your congressman yet? Something tells me that calling Al Franken would just be a waste of time.

Good luck with that. In Washington state, our senators Cantwell and Murray are so far in the tank for this plan that I'm just going to focus on our representative.

[chukmaty]

lol, Al Franken. And I thought Jesse Ventura and Mark Dayton were embarrassing.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty Keep in mind, I used to like Huckabee until I dug deeper. I understand that most pols embellish the facts but he takes it to a new extreme.

I honestly think that you are a good guy. I also think that you are blinded because Huckabee is a pastor and because of that you give him the benefit of the doubt. It's truly amazing how you ignore facts.

Agan, it's not just me. Conservatives who know their stuff like Matt Drudge supported Romney. They called Huck out for his dishonesty.

[chukmaty]

No one has dug deeper on Huckabee that I know of than I did. Frankly I found a lot I didn't like, but also I knew better than to believe everything I read.

Him being a pastor, for me, is a detractor and not a plus. If you thought I had theological reasons to like him, you are sorely mistaken.

His friendship with certain people in "christian" circles really was something that hurt his candidacy in my eyes than my disagreement with him on the environment or is foreign policy inexperience.

[chukmaty]

It is your hypocrisy that disturbs me Phillip, your brazen willingness to attack Huckabee for specs were Romney has planks. Look, I like both guys, but neither meet your standards, both fall short of he guidelines you lay down. Why not just admit both fall short of your unrealistically high standards?

It does not matter, Romney and Huckabee have had their last showdown in all likelihood. Fair or not, Massachusetts care probably ended Romney's future and Palin will syphon off Huck's votes.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty I can tell you are emotionally wrapped up in Huckabee.

At first you said Huckabee didn't lie about raising taxes, it was the "Laffer curve". Then, when it was clearly pointed out that Huckabee did, in fact raise taxes, you said it didn't matter because everyone lies.

It's like the Clinton people. They at first said "he didn't lie!" Then, when it was clearly proven otherwise, they changed the argument to "it's no big deal because they all do it".

Just be honest, man.

[phillip84109]

@chukmaty Now, to respond to your claim that Romney lied about MLK and hunting:

Romney believed that is father actually marched with MLK. There were witnesses to support this in a book David Broder wrote. Since both his dad and MLK are dead, it's hard to verify this either way.

As far as the hunting thing goes, Romney claims that he has hunted small vermin on private land throughout the course of his life. You don't need a permit to do this. He might be lying, but how can you prove that?

[chukmaty]

Hunting vermin on your land is really stretching the definition of hunting. Taking a pellet gun or a .22 off your back porch and taking pot shots and little creatures eating out of your bird feeder is not really hunting. Life long hunters pay a lot of money through their permits and licensing to keep wildlife thriving.

As for the civil rights march, if what you say is true, why did Romney backpedal and say he was speaking figuratively?

[chukmaty]

You really miss the point though, I do not care one whit about Romney's past gaffes. All I wanted to show you was that you were as unfair in judging the two as you are a sanctimonious goody too shoes.

[chukmaty]

It is this grudge bearing that also annoys me, we have people scratching and clawing over a debate that took place around two years ago... hey, I can understand getting passionate at the time, but get over it... those days are gone. Some people take the primaries WAY too seriously, we are essentially picking New York style or Classic Vanilla Ice cream (no racial connotation intended).

These candidates have remarkably similar flaws and different strengths.

[chukmaty]

Exactly, not that I blame him, it is politics after all, Mitt is a fabulous guy himself imo.

[librophile]

KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT MIKE HUCKABEE!!

When he was Governor his 17 yrs old son tied a sick homeless dog to a tree. Stoned it & beat it to death with a bat FOR FUN!!

The Sheriff arrested him & charged him with ANIMAL CRUELTY

GOV. HUCKABEE told the Sheriff & Prosecutor to hush that story, drop the charges & to let his son go

They both refused, so Gov. Huckabee GOT THEM FIRED!!

GOOGLE THE STORY

This is the "HOLIER-THAN-THOU ... HIGH MORAL & FAMILY VALUES" HYPOCRITE MIKE HUCKABEE

[phillip84109]

Huckabee is slimy and very hard to pin down. Good for Mitt for holding his feet to the fire.

[CMM2100]

Wait... Huckabee is hard to pin down? How many positions has Romney had over the years? What an idiotic statement.

[phillip84109]

OK, When Huckabee made accusations against Romney, Romney gave direct responses and didn't dodge anything. Watch the video again.

On the other hand, Huckabee kept dodging and obfuscating when Romney asked him a simple question.

How was my statement idiotic? Can you please use facts to back up your claim?

You asked rhetorically how many positions Romney has had. Could you be more specific?

[ziglet2008]

If Romney did such a great job as gov., why can't he carry his won state? Huck's people voted for Huck's taxes. Arkansas did much better than Romney's state, that's why Huck's still so popular there.

[StrangeMcNamara]

The Boston Globe just released a poll that said 60% - 40% that Romney did a better job than our current Dem. Gov. is doing. Not bad for a Rep. in the most liberal state in the country. BTW, I happen to live in Mass. and despite what you might read on the blogs, I can tell you alot of people here miss Gov. Romney compared to the do nothing and raise taxes policies of cadillac Deval. Arkansas "much better" than Mass!!!!!! Thank you for that.

[phillip84109]

Romney did carry Massachusetts. In the Super Tuesday primary Romney won the state.

This is a typical post by a typically uninformed Huckabee supporter.

[notchjohnson316]

Romney is just still angry from trying to by Iowa and then getting slapped by the next president

[StrangeMcNamara]

Wow Mitt is a bulldog. It looked like Huck wanted to hide under the desk.

[ziglet2008]

Oh, contrare. Mitt was losing it and Huck maintained his composure. Huckabee's a much stronger candidate for 2012 based on his governing record.

[StrangeMcNamara]

Manitained his composure wtf is that line of crap. Mitt got out when he knew he couldn't win. Huck should have done the same after SC and Florida. Huck never even had a snowball's chance in hell at winning it was all about Huck, much like Palin today. Where exactly are Huck's delegates going to come from in 2012? NY + CA pretty much equal the entire Southern primary vote and they sure as hell aren't going to the Huckster. Huck may win prez of the CSA. but he'll need a time machine for that.

[chukmaty]

Here is the question I want to ask everybody, are taxes in Arkansas high?

Answer: No

Did Huckabee implement a road program that cost nearly a Billion $'s?

Answer: Yes

Did he also reform education, in a way that improved grades from second to last to 8th in some subjects in just several years?

Answer Yes:

Both these initiatives cost money, a lot.

So why did Huckabee only raise taxes a rather insignigicant $500 million while erasing a $200 Billion defi

[chukmaty]

FINAL ANSWER:

taxes only went up $500 million net over 11 years despite he state growing by huge leaps and bonds in population, infrastructure, prosperity, and in wages earned while having to fix roads, education, and nursing homes because Huckabee did a great job as a conservative Republican in a blue dog Democratic state. He got things done, his state prospered because of it, don't know why it is a good idea to still be ensnared in these silly political arguments from a YEAR AGO!

[TheRomney2012]

The point is, Huckabee didn't defend raising taxes, he blamed it on the court and tried to make it look as though he didn't raise taxes net, by citing how many times he cut them. It's a dishonest, manipulative technique.

[chukmaty]

Actually, particular in the context of his many other times defending his policies, that stating that the court ordered equity in education before he pushed the policy is very relevant. It shows that Romney is simply taking tax policy here and there and simplistically presenting it out of context in a dishonest way. This is Huckabee in as short a time as possible making it known that the issues involved are actually rather more involved than just raising or lowering taxes.

[phillip84109]

Chuckmaty,

Huckabee flat out lied about having to raise taxes by a court order. The courts never ordered him to raise taxes.

If Huckabee is the competent administrator that he thinks he is, then why couldn't he have cut government in other areas to help pay for education?

Besides, the problem with education isn't that it's underfunded, it's that it's managed wrong.

But again, the taxes were not raised for that reason. The courts never ordered him to raise taxes. That was a lie.

[chukmaty]

Wrong, that is not a lie. The court ordered changes in school practices, which required financing, which in turn required taxes to pay for it.

Huckabee also did a great deal to manage schools aggressively through accountability.

Do you live in Arkansas, I do not, but if you do it would help me understand why you think you have such a unique perspective on the issue.

[chukmaty]

Huckabee stays so calm, all these months of attacks and slanders, and he keeps his cool so well. Way to go Huck! Showing that the "thin skinned" remarks are just silly.

[phillip84109]

Huckabee is smooth. He deflects criticism well and changes the topics when he has to give an answer that he knows will make him look bad.

He reminds me so much of Bill Clinton in that regard.

He is thin skinned, though. You can see his uneasy smile before that last question. You can tell his animosity towards Romney.

I just don't trust what's underneath that "aw shucks" persona that he puts on. Mark Levin calls him "Huckaphony" for a reason.

Huckabee is smooth just like Clinton and Obama.

[chukmaty]

Sure Huckabee is smooth, and I will certainly acknowledge he changes subjects and tries to divert a discussion when things become les than advantageous. That is not particularly unique though so I am surprised you latch onto it, it is after a catch all... something everyone, particularly in politics, is guilty of. Romney is, Thompson less so because no one really challenged his record, Reagan did it A LOT (and I admire the way he did it), as are all the Democrats you mentioned.

[chukmaty]

But, he kept his cool, Romney (I do not necessarily blame him) did not. This is not so much an endorsement of him, I think Obama is also very good at keeping calm under pressure, it is why he slaughtered McCain in debates that McCain should have one. Romney diverted attention by losing his temper and accusing Huckabee of "making facts up."

From a 3rd person viewpoint, I though Huckabee one the exchange on a performance basis.

[chukmaty]

You know my opinion on the two men, I agree with Michael Medved, they are both stellar in my book.

My top three picks were:

Huckabee

Thompson

Romney

I liked McCain a lot on a personal level, I also admired Guiliani's honesty on social issues that were left of center; though I could not actually support either of those two in the primaries based on their policies.

Huckabee was my first pick because he is the best communicator from either party in a generation, and I knew we needed the best.

[phillip84109]

I know you like Huckabee. But there is no way an objective person would think that either:

1- Romney lost his temper

or

2- Huckabee won that exchange. On either style or substance.

Romney didn't change subjects when Huckabee brought up the his fees in Mass. He answered the charge.

He didn't change subjects when Huckabee made up the facts that he opposed the Bush tax cuts or ran deficit in Mass. He answered the charges.

Huckabee looked like a weasel in that exchange.

[chukmaty]

*slaps forehead*

Okay Phillip, you convinced me. Huckabee is a filthy socialist liar and Romney is the second coming of Barry Goldwater riding on a cloud of conservative truth and justice on loan from Jove.

[phillip84109]

I expect better from you. Why don't you specifically answer the claims I made instead of just putting down a sarcastic, flippant response?

That's what Huckabee does. He either avoids answering the questions by changing the subject or making a joke; or he just flat out lies when backed into a corner.

It's not just on this tax issue. He's used the same tactics (very effectively) on the issue of his pardons and commutations, ethical lapses as governor, and most any other criticism he receives.

[chukmaty]

Or maybe the accusations are so irresponsible that the only way one can survive them is to show an equal amount of whit in shaking them off. Palin is a great person, but she needed more of that particular skill during her time as Governor. It looks like she is just now figuring it out. Reagan learned it, Huckabee had to learn it in Arkansas were the political atmosphere is toxic and underhanded. Most things coming out in the Arkansas media about anyone is not to be believed.

[ConservativeMother]

The accusations are not irresponsible.

What's irresponsible about the claim that he raised taxes?

The claim has been proven true.

Huckabee about the reason - saying it was by a court order. Even HIS OWN CAMPAIGN had to admit that that wasn't the case.

What about the claim that he granted too many clemencies and pardons?

The fact that he gave out TWICE as many as the three previous governors combined at least makes it a legitimate topic.

But again, Huckabee was dishonest again.

[chukmaty]

Raising taxes does not make one a tax and spender, especially when that person cut taxes when appropriate and when the tax dollars went towards expenditures that we would all describe as the common good as Republicans.

In one case taxes did have to raise taxes due to court order indirectly, but the correction he ran had to do with a specific instance and it was an easy mistake to make for anyone.

[chukmaty]

Also when Romney claims he did not raise taxes, it omits that he significantly raised fees in a high tax state.

Romney never stated why taxes were affected, and declines to compare the starting tax rates of his state and Huckabee's when making comparisons.

Romney is a good guy, who strongly I considered supporting, I still like him and think his speech to CPAC in 2008 was brilliant. However I do not think he ran respectable attack ads against Huckabee.

[chukmaty]

Here is the question I want to ask everybody, are taxes in Arkansas high?

Answer: No

Did Huckabee implement a road program that cost nearly a Billion $'s?

Answer: Yes

Did he also reform education, in a way that improved grades from second to last to 8th in some subjects in just several years?

Answer Yes:

Both these initiatives cost money, a lot.

So why did Huckabee only raise taxes a rather insignigicant $500 million while erasing a $200 Billion deficit and making a $800 b surplus?

[phillip84109]

If you've been governor for over 10 years in a state, by then you should have found a way to have an overall decrease in the amount of taxes, not an increase.

Roads cost money, and there is no doubt that that needs to be taken care of. But for most everything else, government just takes away too much money and wastes too much of it.

The problem with balancing budgets is not that government takes in too little, it's that it spends too much.

He does explain the pro-life position well, though.

[chukmaty]

You realize that not all states are the same, some do not get the funds needed to adequately do the things it has been charged to do. Lie run prisons, schools, build roads, as well as pay for federal mandates.

Your statement applies in most situations, as taxes and government involvement are often too high at both the state and federal level. However it is not always true.

If you had listened to several of Huckabee's legislature speeches, you would know he cut A LOT as governor when needed.

[OperationTailGunner]

Romney is a sock puppet for the RJC,AEI and Heritage Foundation.

Elect Romney for WWIII and a U.S. Strike on Iran...More business for KBR Halliburton....

Fuck AIPAC!!!

[chukmaty]

This is sad, bet you hate teh JOOOOOZ.

[chukmaty]

Who would give this racist turd a thumps up? Ron Paul supporters maybe? Yikes!

[phillip84109]

Romney is the most competent administrator I have seen run for president.

He certainly knows his stuff on the economy also.

[StandFastinLiberty]

Neither of these guys are qualified for elected office. Neither of them have proven that they can be consistently honest and wise. They both lack character. They both give lip service to the Constitution but don't understand the slightest thing about it.

[phillip84109]

Romney is the most competent, qualified person to run for president in a long time. He has turned around businesses, saved an Olympics, and turned around the state of Massachusetts.

He has been more honest than most politicians out there.

[StandFastinLiberty]

I don't doubt his ability to lead or manage. I doubt his integrity.

He seems more concerned about getting elected than he does about defending liberty. He gives into partisan politics where he has this us VS them mentality.

I find myself nodding my head to 90% of the things he says but shaking my head to 90% of the things he does.

[phillip84109]

I would research Romney more. He gets slandered a lot by the mainstream media for being a flip-flopper when he really isn't.

I think he has a lot of integrity. Look at how ethical his administration was in Massachusetts. Look at how ethical he was in cleaning up the Olympics.

[phillip84109]

Huckabee is very sleazy. He said Romney wasn't honest in his claims about his record but when Romney presents him with a claim he made, he can't defend it.

All he had to do is answer the question. Instead he changes the subject and obfuscates.

This is what he always seems to do. He either changes the subject or makes a joke.

[charleslawlesss]

Romney supported the Bush bailouts, Huckabee was against the Bush bailouts and the Obama Bailouts..... During the primary Huckabee won Iowa even though Mitt Romney out spent him 50 to 1 on campaigning

[charleslawlesss]

If that is the only bad thing you can say about Huck, then it just Highlights how great he is. Most of the stuff you bring up is twisted...... If he was such a bad governor then why was he elected to 10 years of governship of arkensaw???

[charleslawlesss]

LOL, Mitt the Flipp??? Yeah Right... Mike Huckabee fixed Arkansaw... He was Gov for 10 yrs.... How many Years was Mitt Gov of his own state..... HMMMM Mike Huckabee is the most honest Politicain of our day. Huckabee did his job and he did it well. Cant say the same for Ol mitt the Flip.

[phillip84109]

What do you find the most honest about Huckabee?

Is it the fact that he said he didn't have information on Wayne Dumond when Arkansas government records contradict that?

Was it the fact that he claimed the courts made him raise taxes by $500 million when they did no such thing?

Was it the fact that he set up a wedding registry for himself and his wife and himself to take advantage of an ethics loophole at the end of his term in Arkansas?

[ConservativeMother]

Wow... Huckabee has pulled the "wool" over so many eyes... I have watched this video several times and there is NO way that anyone could say that Huckabee is the most honest politician... I don't trust anyone with the "aw-shucks" persona - Reminds me of Bush and his smooth talking reminds me of Obama - look what we got from them? You can't deny that Huckabee is a social conservative (pro-life, etc) but he is DEFINITELY not a fiscal conservative... Romney is both and that is what we need!!!

[phillip84109]

Huckabee obfuscates more than almost any politician I've seen not named Clinton.

This entire exchange could have been avoided simply by him being honest and saying "yes" to Romney's question. He clearly knew what Mitt was talking about.

[phillip84109]

It's amazing that Romney is branded by some as slippery and inauthentic. Romney answered every charge by Huckabee with directness.

Huckabee, by contrast, was very slippery, would not answer the question directly, and misrepresented the facts.

[chukmaty]

He did a lot to get gay marriage passed in the background.

On immigration, yea he probably would have done a good job. Though his record was not all that shiny.

I have watched every debate, every interview with Huckabee on yt. I was essentially a scholar of him during the primary season and I know almost as much about him as he probably does.

Huckabee has flaws, being indirect is not one of them. He answered questions on taxes tens of times. This was him going on offense and off defense.

[fuddyfoo]

He worked to get gay marriage passed? No. Someone lied to you about that. Truth is, he pursued every avenue to have it stopped.

What about his record on immigration do you find not so shiny?

You said Huckabee "answered questions on taxes tens of times." Yet you didn't provide any examples of him answering that question honestly. As you recall from the end of the video, he lied to fox news about his taxes (unless you didn't watch the video before rating it one star).

[chukmaty]

Someone lied to you, more has been done to look into things and Romney behind the scenes was very much supportive of keeping a campaign promise of being more pro gay than Ted Kennedy.

[chukmaty]

Taken in context, you have to look at the many times Huckabee answered questions on his tax record, not to mention that this question by Romney was very dishonest.

Reagan saw Federal revenue go up substantially during his time as president. No one considered that a tax hike even though we were giving the government more money under Reagan than under Carter. It is not a tax hike it is the Laffer Curve.

[fuddyfoo]

"this question by Romney was very dishonest."

No. Huck said Romney lied about him in his ads. In his own defense, Romney cited an example of something he had in his ad and asked Huckabee if it was or was not true.

Turns out, you can go through everything Romney said in his ads and it's all true. The ad Huck made about Romney however is all demonstrably false. How about that. "It is not a tax hike it is the Laffer Curve."

Your source that "Per capita income went up 50%"?

[TheRomney2012]

chukmaty,

I don't doubt your sincerity, but you are making the mistake of coming up with explanations and hoping they are true - instead of checking the facts and basing your explanations on them.

The fact is, the net tax increase calculation renders income irrelevant. It is a matter of how much was taken in state taxes versus how much would have been collected without the tax changes made by Huck - both increases and cuts.

Income doesn't matter.

[chukmaty]

Romney wants you to think that increasing fees for a good reason and raising taxes for a good reason need to be judged differently based on wether the person his him or an opponent. That is kind of funny. Read up on the Medved article that details how silly the debate was. Huckabee had very good reasons to pay for roads and education as both had too little spent on them. He managed education fantastically, putting accountability first and above all else.

[charleslawlesss]

Go get em Chuk.!! Huck 2012!!!! Why he is winning all the polls.

[chukmaty]

BTW, count me out of the Romney hate club, I like a lot of things about him. Great family man, articulate speaker, man of great intelligence and private sector experience. But he is not my first choice on the GOP side, he has a record that is not really my thing. His health care plan was lousy, he had a co pay for abortion, he too easily abandoned Reaganism when running against Ted Kennedy (which probably lost him that race), and he seems too calculating on issues that should be convictions.

[TheRomney2012]

"His health care plan was lousy,"

It worked under Romney. Trouble is, the new gov changed it up.

"he had a co pay for abortion,"

No, that wasn't in the bill. It came from a court decision.

"he too easily abandoned Reaganism when running against Ted Kennedy"

He hadn't fully embraced Reaganism. That's not the same as abandoning it.

[phillip84109]

Great video!

Romney is sharper than Huckabee on substance. Huckabee is better on style only. Romney clearly owned Huckabee in that debate.

[chukmaty]

Romney changes his substance for the audience, it is annoying as heck. He is an otherwise passionate and good man, but he puts his finger to the wind and then spend millions to slander the records of fellow conservative like Huckabee. I found it all so distasteful. This debate ended Romney, Huckabee and McCain ably demonstrated that Romney was not serious about his own policy and was using attack ads in lieu of a conservative record of his own.

[TheRomney2012]

"millions to slander the records of fellow conservative like Huckabee"

Romney pointed out facts about Huckabee. Huckabee made up lies and half-truths about Romney.

[phillip84109]

I can see why you think that Romney is a flip-flopping panderer. That is exactly how the mainstream media wanted him to be portrayed.

Romney has actually been consistent about the big issues. On gay marriage, gun control, health care, immigration, etc, they are pretty much the same as what he ran on in 2002.

They didn't like Romney so they discredited him. They did the same thing to Sarah Palin. Making her seem dumb when she is, in fact, very smart.

Look up his actual record.

[chukmaty]

Oh, this is so funny. Huckabee DID NOT raise taxes half a billion $'s. Per capita income went up 50% which resulted in an income tax which remained static throughout his two and a half terms, yielding more at the same rate.

Romney raised fees, oh burn. Huckabee also was dealing with 75%-80% democrat control in the legislature and state employees who hated him enough to nail his door shut from the inside just because he dared to be a conservative in a Democrat state.

[TheRomney2012]

First, you just made up the tax info. It's a total fabrication.

Second, fees are conservative because they stop taxpayer subsidizing of services (e.g. instead of tax dollars being used to subsidize the cost to replace a lost driver's license, the individual pays to replace it). Romney updated fees to reflect the cost required for the government to perform the service.

Third, Arkansas state democrats are not nearly as liberal as the democrats in the MA legislature Romney had to deal with.

[chukmaty]

I did not make up the tax information bro. The vast majority of the tax increase in Arkansas was from increase in income and not rate changes. Also, if you think that fees are so conservative, why are you trying to make a point out of Huckabee's gas tax for a road program?

Fact is, both Governors had to deal with very difficult legislatures, Massachusetts had higher taxes to begin with and Arkansas would have had a much larger government if it were not for Huckabee.

[phillip84109]

If Huckabee didn't raise taxes in Arkansas, then why didn't he come out and say that instead of dodging the question 3 times before finally going to "the courts made me do it " excuse?

Then his campaign had to come back (watch the end of the video) and admit that he raised taxes to cover a budget shortfall. Huckabee never disputed the $500 million number. He should have at least owned his decision.

Both were good governors, but Romney governed more conservatively in a more liberal state.

[TheRomney2012]

Huckabee also lied about the gas tax, trying to pawn it off on the voters by claiming multiple times that it was on a ballot and that 80% of Arkansans voted for it. Totally false. It was never on a ballot. He flat-out lied.

As for fees and gas taxes, gas is not a government service. Purchasing it is a private transaction. But, yes, gas use is an indicator of road use. The point of the video however is that Huck dodged and lied instead of engaging Romney on substance.

[chukmaty]

The road program HAD been voted for on a ballot pal. And because of the states constitution, spending had to be paid for, no debt allowed. What tax would you propose in paying for a road program, which is the most direct and reasonable? A gas tax of coarse.

So by default a vote for roads is a vote for a gas tax in the state of Arkansas :)

[TheRomney2012]

No. A gas tax and a road program are not the same thing.

[chukmaty]

Huckabee's debate theme with Romney was that he was disingenuous, it probably ended Romney's campaign because everyone could see it for what it was. Romney was hitting people on issues were his record was weaker.

Huckabee made the case early and often for his record on taxes while Romney's had been unexplored. Taken in a greater context, Huckabee hit it on the nail.

[TheRomney2012]

Huckabee wanted Romney to be disingenuous. Trouble is, he wasn't. So Huck lied on a variety of issues to make it look that way.

[chukmaty]

Sales Taxes went from four to five cents I believe throughout the 11 years as Governor, and the income tax was unchanged.

So why did income increase? Income of Arkansans increased by 50% during Huckabee's term, and the economy overall experienced an expansion.

Compared to other states, Arkansas was an is a low tax state, but after Clinton the general feeling was that taxes needed to go way up. Huckabee did a pretty good job forming a coalition with blue dog dems to stop that from happening.

[phillip84109]

According to the state's Department of Finance, Huckabee raised net taxes by $505.1 million. This was due to 21 individual, specific, measures that Huckabee supported. This included increases in sales and excise taxes as well as a temporary 3% surcharge on income taxes.

This is why conservative tax groups like the Club For Growth bashed Huckabee on his tax record.

There are ways to calculate revenue from individual taxes vs. overall tax revenue. Taxes were clearly raised more than cut.

[chukmaty]

The Club for Growth attacked Huckabee and ignored Romney for one reason, money. I think you realize this.

That is not a huge increase for a state with such a small budget over 11 years when so much had to be done, from road construction and an education system in tatters. Romney increased fees about $500 million, you cannot have it both ways. Considering Romney brought up this ridiculous debate when their records are somewhat similar is silly.

[chukmaty]

I actually think taxes did go up under Huckabee, I pointed out the gas tax. But when you run a state on bare bones skeleton budgets, you have to raise taxes if you add a new program. Huckabee added a major program, was mandated to support medicare as all states are, and was ordered by the supreme court to do some expensive things with the public school system.  Roads went from worst to first, education got a lot better, and medicare mandates are just unfortunate.

[phillip84109]

I would rather have services paid for out of fees from the people who actually use them than to tax people for stuff they don't use.

This gets back to why I liked Romney so much. He is better at cutting waste and spending than other politicians because he as done it so well and so long in the private sector. He was able to make cuts and eliminate duplication and waste and make Mass. run more lean. Therefore, he didn't have to come up with any new taxes; although he did raise some fees.

[fuddyfoo]

chukmaty, you lost all credibility when you falsely claimed that Romney calculated Huckabee's tax increases based on how much tax revenue was collected.

You have shown that you are willing to flat-out lie. No wonder you support Huckabee.

[chukmaty]

Actually many of the figures I heard during the campaign did just that.

Thompson was the first person I remember doing it, and if I remember right (it has been a while) Romney's campaign followed suit.

Thompson seemed to start all the trash and other campaigns usually just picked up on the line.

Huckabee did raise taxes, I would support any of them actually as they were all wise choices, but the numbers cited usually reflected an increase in revenue from economic expansion.

[fuddyfoo]

You may not have done it intentionally, but you should not make such claims without hard data to back those claims up. So you still lost credibility. Mitt Romney did not base his assertion on revenue from economic growth. Romney's figure reflects revenue which would not have been collected if Huckabee had not increased taxes, after compensating for Huckabee's tax cuts.

[chukmaty]

Romney was inherently dishonest, Arkansas taxes are significantly lower than Massachusetts, and the fees Romney hiked need to be included.

I do not know the figure Romney threw out, was it the grocery tax, the one Huckabee rigged so that it would be politically untenable for the governor following to keep it?

Either way, Huckabee's state had a $800 million surplus. So if Romney's figure is accurate, that must mean Huckabee cut more government than he raised taxes.

$500 million is nothing btw.

[chukmaty]

So, if you are the stickler for details, how can you stand Romney (I am assuming you like him, if you don't then my bad).

No one can make a case the Huckabee is a fiscal liberal, it is silly. Arkansas was consistently stable financially and growth outpaced tax growth with Huckabee as governor. The per capita government in Arkansas and the per capita economic output were 45%/50% approximately over ten years. Not bad.

[chukmaty]

Finally, Romneycare is costing Massachusetts a lot. Romney had to have known that the liberals following him would do what they have done. And the $50 abortion co pay, yea, that will go over fantastic if Romney tries to run for President again.

I like Romney, I really do, he is a smart guy who can give a lot to the party. He should run for Kennedy's old Senate seat if it becomes available. He has a lot to contribute to the party, as does Huckabee, warts and all the both of them.