Study: Doctors Often Would Opt for Different Treatment for Themselves Than Patients

[Tanfeliz]

I'm not a doctor, but a paramedic. When I go on calls I almost always take better care of the patient than I do myself. For example, many times I'm sicker than the people I bring to the hospital. I also frequently tell people, "If this was my son/mom/dad/whoever we'd be on our way to the hospital" when they lean toward not treating and I have the slightest doubt.

[Tanfeliz]

This is why I love your show. You go ahead and say when you don't understand all the nuance, unlike so many other shows where they just pop off opinions.

[MedusaNegrita]

Do you ever watch House? I saw about 5 eps of the first season and stopped watching---why? Because House and most of the doctors seemed to be playing Russian Roulette---or a trial and error scenario. Made me nervous.

[diasent]

dead people cannot sue. Simple as that.

[ambidextrality]

What it means is doctors don't care about you. They care about money and time, so it's far easier to just give you the standard procedure, which often is not necessary but is done because hospitals get money and therefore, it's popular. Your doctor doesn't have all day to tell you the best options, so he just gives you the status quo.

[eswyatt]

I think most doctors don't take quality of life into account when advising others; they simply maximize the probability of survival. A doctor might think twice about the advice when HE is the one who will be walking around disfigured, etc.

[Zajuts149]

@eswyatt agreed. I think the doctors' 'bias' in these cases is that they choose the lowest death-risk for their patients, while they weigh death vs quality of life for themselves. Very natural. One can't be in someone else's body.

[eswyatt]

@Zajuts149 Yes, except you put it better than I did! The doctor can't know your preferences toward risk, disabilities arising from complications, etc. so he does the simpler computation and one that's less subjective.

[kazooga1234]

ya i have and that means you cant get sick from it however since i am immuned to the normal flu every single freaking year doesnt mean if they dont shove it into my body that i wont get it because i have heard of that happening a hell of a lot of times so immunity doesnt work for the shot it only works if you dont get the shot because people get sick from the flu shot because its BS

[kortteli]

huoh why advertise before EVERY clip? its getting very annoying...

[Violent2aShadow]

I'm pretty sure its a malpractice thing. Dead patients are less likely to sue after all....

[28stads]

Of course, it is all about money right? Doctors want the best treatment.

[1RadicalOne]

I would prefer death over paralysis, blindness, mental incapacitation, or continual pain any day.

Perhaps this is not quite as negative as it sounds...

[hawk44256]

I believe the doctors choose the lower chance of death because thats what they're doctors for, to save lives, but I don't think ANYBODY wants to live crippled when theres a chance they wouldn't be.

[MaryJesusJoseph]

The other possibility is that Drs know a dead patient is less likely to sue.

[Demarcoa]

@MaryJesusJoseph that's dumb. The more realistic interpretation is that the treatment doctors would choose for themselves does not involve the same psychological process as the treatment they would give to patients. Whether it is a more cautious or less cautious approach is another matter that this present study did NOT control for. Therefore such conclusions cannot be made based on the present evidence.

[Demarcoa]

@MaryJesusJoseph also, presumably, most patients have relatives who can sue on their dead behalf. So that's an awfully risky gamble on behalf of the doctors.

[MaryJesusJoseph]

@Demarcoa You're assuming the patient's family would actually look into it, have an autopsy, and go to the expense of suing over someone who has already died and quit suffering.

[Demarcoa]

@MaryJesusJoseph so? People do that all the time.

[Elemarth]

I think it may be that people will be more likely to sue if they're suffering, rather than survivors whose loved ones died of something they knew was deadly. And doctors often encourage you to take the treatment no matter what, which I think has to do with doing what they think the patient wants to hear.

This idea scares me.

[DelusionalAngel]

If you live near a place that has a university / county type of health care system use that. Long ass waits usually but the best care I get is from those both when I had insurance and now that I don't. They always tell me this is what I would do, this is experimental, this has this side effect, etc. They tend to not be as at the beck and call for funds from pharmacy companies etc but from govt, student, and donations as funding.

[AsifIcarebear3]

Concerning the flu; I think some patients demand that the doctor does something, so they write them a prescription, while the doctor knows it'll just take a few days for the flu to go away and therefore can't be bothered.

[RetiredBard]

Hard to say what to make of this. It may just indicate that those doctors make assumptions about what patients would prefer. At any rate, I like what Louis said about asking your doctor what they would do for themselves.

[kazooga1234]

i know a few doctors that arent profiteering so if i ever had a problem that i wasnt 100% sure of i could go to them to make sure that im not being profiteered on again because i have been profiteered on when i was a teen and i also use google a hell of a lot for the true info

[kazooga1234]

look at the costs as well they are prob telling the patients to do the more costly in some to a lot of cases think about that as well

[kazooga1234]

i already knew this the flu shot is one of the things they dont do because its called profiteering and i pay close attention to what they wont do for themseleves

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 Here you go again, there is an office of doctors where I am sitting right now who get the flu shot, you heard one doctor who was trying to sell an alternative cure.... So which doctors are profiteering again?

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo no i just seen all the reports that say the majority of doctors dont get the flu shot and if they do its in the summerish time like now and even then its rare and it was awhile ago i forget

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 Yeah, there's no reports that say that. You saw one report about one hospital staff being so lazy they didn't get the shot, not because they don't believe in it... It was nurses and janitorial staff... I remember the link you sent me, I read it and saw how your conspiracy filled mind translated that to most doctors don't get the flu shot, which is patently absurd....

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo thats not true i even sent you links that had the percentages and its not that they are lazy its because they know it doesnt work and that all it does is make you sick and its not absurd and the doctors i had that arent for profiteering purposes never once said to get the flu shot and that is because its pointless and stupid and since i have never had the flu shot according to you i should have gotten the flu and i never had so explain that smart ass

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 Not true.... All anecdotal and your links were not what you label them as...

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo then why the hell does the shot always make people sick but when they dont get the shot they dont get sick its so ovious that its just profiteering

[Demarcoa]

@kazooga1234 anecdotal. If you don't know anything about biology or physiology, and don't have any peer-reviewed sources, don't misinform people because you don't trust science.

[kazooga1234]

@Demarcoa its not misinforming its from science i found this stuff out from and its also well known that the flu shot causes asma and things like that and they say if you have that dont get the flu shot but i have read in many things that says the flu shot causes that and its well known that people who have the flu shot get sick while others who dont get it dont get sick same with my siblins and i do trust science thats why i know what i am talking about because this is from science

[Demarcoa]

@kazooga1234 then show your sources? why all this roundabout business? Sorry if I don't take a stranger on the internet's word for it.

[kazooga1234]

@Demarcoa fine i will send you a PM shortly

[Demarcoa]

@kazooga1234 yeah I got the sources you sent me. I have to agree with smog's assesment of the sources though.  You really can't rely on such indirect evidence to make these crazy claims.

[kazooga1234]

@Demarcoa except that smog also proved that the doctors dont get the shots when they fucking tell everybody else to like i also said i have said that if a doctor will get the flu shot (witch is unlikely) then its either in the spring or summerish time usually summer never in the fall or winter when you are most likely going to get sick so also think about that and i sent you more stuff and i have even more if you want it

[Demarcoa]

@kazooga1234 i'm sorry, I can't make heads or tails of this. Until you present more convincing stuff, I'm calling the movement BS.

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 It doesn't make people sick and if the flu shot was all about profiteering it would be the worst scam the pharmaceutical industry could pull. It is not a giant cash cow like you think. You are getting anti depressants and the flu shot mixed up kid... Doctors in Canada all agree the flu shot saves lives and its socialist healthcare, so how can the doctors be making profiteering cash off of it? They can't, so your theory just fell on its face.

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo then why do people get sick from the flu shot when they get it and all of my friends that get the flu shot get sick so dont give me that shit about how it doesnt make people sick when it does and i am not getting anti depressants and the flu shot mixed up doctors in canada dont agree and the ones in america that dont profiteer also say dont get the flu shot because it works as well as a plecibo and they do make cash off of it

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 No one gets sick from the flu shot. There are 18 000 Americans who have adverse effects from the shot. All doctors say the flu shot works, all micro biologists do too. I happen to be a micro biologist who specializes in RNA virus, so I can say for sure that the flu shot does work. You have no degree.

[kazooga1234]

your an idiot if you think that because all of the people i have ever met that got the flu shot gets sick and i was actually reading up on canada it seems like they have a compeltely different flu then america and that could be why theres works however in america it doesnt work and thats why the CDC wont split up the info and say how many people still die if they get the flu shot and the flu shot is just a profiteering tool thats why its extremely common to get them at pharmcys not clinics

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 The American and Canadian flu can differ slightly, but many of the same strains are found in both. I don't understand your logic (probably because you have none on this subject), you think some flu can be treated by shots but your American flu is just different? The flues that cause pandemics usually develop in china and spread worldwide through travel. Stop asking the CDC to split info, because the info is provided elsewhere. If you get a degree in Biology you can argue with me.

[kazooga1234]

my logic is they use the same shit shot for both countrys there for it cant work for both countrys and america is the profiteering one so i bet thats why it doesnt work for us and the CDC doesnt split up its info because if you knew just as many peopled died when they got the flu shot to when they didnt they wouldnt be able to make money off the flu shot any more because nobody would get the useless flu shot and i never once got the flu shot same with my siblins never had the flu explain that

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo i found something you might find interesting and i also found other things saying when the flu shot cant be gotten the percentages dont change but this came from the main stream media and thats more republican then some of the stuff i found on google so you will be more likely to listen to this

washingtonpost (dot) com/wp-dyn /content/ article/2005 /10(slash)22 /AR2005102200042 (dot) html

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 Herd immunity....

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo ever heard that a lot more people probably have immunity then you think then but if you keep making people get sick from giving the flu shot you will never know that and if you read the comments in that washingtonpost thing there was even a guy that said everybody in his work that gets the flu shot gets sick and he never gets it and he never misses work and my friends that get it get sick everybody i know who doesnt get it never gets sick

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 You misunderstand herd immunity...

[kazooga1234]

@SmogHouseTradingCo like i said more people are probably immuned then you think the only problem is the ones that are immuned ending getting the flu shot and then getting sick like the people has said in the comment section of the washingtonpost page somebody said that everybody at his work gets the flu shot and then they all call in sick when he never gets it and is never sick like me and my friends the only ones that get sick are the ones that get that BS flu shot

[SmogHouseTradingCo]

@kazooga1234 You are still misunderstanding herd immunity....

[rraybin]

Imagine you have a mother about to deliver. If you allow her to deliver normally, there is a chance the baby may have some problem. If you do a c-section, there is a slight improvement in the outcome for the baby but triple the mortality for the mother. Which do you choose? What if you knew that you would be sued if there are problems with the vaginal delivery, but not if you did a c-section? What if you also got paid 2 or 3 times as much to do a c-section?

[kazooga1234]

@rraybin that isnt true about the c section c sections should only be less then 15% because c sections have such a high risk and there is a hospital in america that is profiteering and it has a higher then 50% c sections happening and that shouldnt be happening child birth being done normal is much healthier then c sections unless the women doesnt have hips

[grendelcatt]

I'd love to hear the results of this survey in a country with national health, as apposed to, you get what you can afford...

[dannyhulse]

I've recently had surgery in the NHS and I got to choose what the Surgeon did

I had a Chondroblastoma in my right shoulder and was told I could fill the cavity left behind with either a Bone Graft or Bone Cement, as well as being told the Pros and Cons of each, that sort of openess and choice should be what all Doctors in every system should adhere to.

[Introspective91]

1:54 Dr. Peter Ooble?