Insignificance(!)

[Schnutzzz86]

god was spose t have created man 1st. bible says fuck all about evolution. stop twisting things in ur head to make it all sound believable u EGG. god does not exist. in early civilisations people saw the sun as being god ..because IT brought life to earth for example plants,crops etc not some fukin devine creator. sort ur life out, take a science lesson.

[sphiedd]

well i know im going to be hated for this but, i think myself satan was human( just wht i thought on how he felt for gods power), and such as anger and jealousy is within him, then how come. if he is an angel created by god, why him felt this wht human feel as well, which means all this is created and for a purpose, no hate here just wht i think, and if just you see on how whole history is driven , is been by the same succesion, power controls all, and everyone wants it

[lifeuu]

let me break it down for you, God created the Angels first then the Jinn then Man. 2 out of 3 have free will that being Jinn and Man, when God created Adam he said to the Angels and to the Jinn to bow down to Adam, all of them did it except one he was the highest of Jinn his name is Ibliss and he was arrogant and proud, and he pray with the Angels so he was like look at me.and he felt why should he bow down to a man, and so he went against God will and God made him Satan and he is powerless

[Schnutzzz86]

@lifeuu ...wow delusion makes me laugh!

[joness105639]

"No man is so little, in respect of the greatest man, as the greatest in respect of God; for here, in that, we have not so much as a measure to try it by; proportion is no measure for infinity." - John Donne

Yet somehow despite the fact that compared to God we are smaller than in comparison to anything else you show in this video, He manages to bridge the gap, and give us signifigance.

[Jahan917]

Signifigance to the point where he sits by and does nothing when all the suffering, and wrong on Earth could end instantly, thats some God there.

[joness105639]

"Signifigance to the point where he sits by and does nothing when all the suffering, and wrong on Earth could end instantly, thats some God there."

What makes you think that he's not doing anything at all?

[Jahan917]

If hes doing anything its the most despicable concept in the entire universe,by something claiming to have created the unvierse and claiming to have sooooo much power ... it would be better off in fact if he didn;t exist, otherwise I would have nothing but disgust for it

[joness105639]

"If hes doing anything its the most despicable concept in the entire universe"

Why?

"by something claiming to have created the unvierse"

if he really did create the universe, would you rather he lie about it?

[Jahan917]

Having claimed the title of "creator of the universe" but yet unable to help, or even at least resolve the simple problems of a small sized planet admist an endless ocean of galaxies, yeah ... the so called "god" concept is starting to make so much sense!!! I've got it!

1. He's dead, or never existed at all

2. He's really a evil god, who delights to see what hes made suffer.

3. He doesn't care about what hes created and just let his creations fend for themselves.

Most likely its number 3

[Jahan917]

And if it is number 3, I'd love to gain enough power somehow to torture him and make him feel all the suffering of every single human being, and animal, that didn't need to happen, and force him to live through every humans life that was full of nothing but misery.

[joness105639]

"I'd love to gain enough power somehow to torture him and make him feel all the suffering of every single human being, and animal"

In the christian perspective, God has already suffered that and far more than you can imagine. If God really does live inside the hearts of men and women who invite him into their lives, then he has expirienced countless lifetimes of scorn, sufferingc, persecution, disease etc. To top that off is his death on the cross.

[Jahan917]

You should listen to how you sound ...think about it, if you were on fire, wouldn't you want to put yourself out? If God really felt anything at all then he wouldn't let it continue, and your knowledge is so twisted, You don't even know the religion you hopelessly cling to.

[joness105639]

first i' like to know what makes you think he is unable to help. Second I'd like to know what make you think that he has never helped to resolve any problems at any time anywhere in the universe. Third, there is a fourth option, God deeply cares about his creation and knows of only one way to solve all its problems, and that way permits some suffering in the mean time but one day it will all work out for the best.

[Jahan917]

LISTEN TO YOURELF SPEAK, your saying someone "cares" but does nothing, wow, common sense instead of blindly believing anything thats shoved down your throat, you should start thinking

[gt22]

WE don't feed the poor eventhough God has given us the wealth and provision needed for us to do so. WE don't end the violence eventhough we've been given human consciousness and priveleges. Some of us even deny God altogether and speak falsely against God. Those that ARE at peace and free from sufferin, do they thank God and show appreciation? Are we even deserving of what you speak?

[Jahan917]

Stop blinding yourself, the only thing that has been of any help to man is science, no one can force all humans to work together or believe in something, religious turmoil? God could easily show himself and end all hatred between religions, but instead hides himself away like a pathetic mess, unacceptable! You are the only one and people like you who don't deserve anything, how can you believe there is a God and still blame yourself?

[lifeuu]

Your the Blind One.

God is perfect in every way

We are not

we are that insignificance, God showed him self we just abit to the Prophet Mosses, that he fainted.

They first time we will ever see God is on the day of Judgment were we will be Judged and be giving what we earned by our Sins and by our Deeds.

[Jahan917]

Hah! "Perfect in everyway" So perfect he wasn't intelligent enough to create his creations so they could see him and interact without killing them, So perfect he couldn't deliver his word across the sky, so there would be dispute, so perfect he needed a "insignicant, unperfect, sinning man to do it for him, all you religions are 1 step away from the truth ... you believe all other religions are false, but can't realize your own is. Religions destroy Spirituality

[lifeuu]

If the sun was just abit closer we will fry to death

if the ocean was abit deeper there wont be alot of air then we will suffocate,

small things like that can not be by chance, knowing that the human body needs air, water, food, light, that male and female need each other, IS NOT BY CHANCE.

This life is a test for one thing, and thats to see who makes it to heaven or hell in the hereafter. Islam is the truth cause the very meaning of the word ISLAM means Submission To God.

[Jahan917]

Heaven and Hell? You mean "hell" as in a place an all loving Creator made with the purpose of torturing( for eternity) his creations after living through torture on Earth?Or that place that was used to cause fear and exploit other men into being manipluated? God is not in any book written by a Man, none of you even know what God is to begin with you put your trust in men the moment you use a book to find it.

[lifeuu]

ok if someone killed another person and got a way with it in this life, your saying he wont get punished?

The all loving Creator warns us if we dont worship his and dont submit to him and he Created us from nothing but his Will, and other people worship idols besides him, will get hell fire.

We are meant to fear God cause for his punishment, but also love Him more for the gifts He gives to us e.x. Life, The Very Beautiful Earth.

The Only Book Written By God Is The Holy Quran.

[Jahan917]

I'll kill all your arguements and all the other mislead indivduals fairy-tales dreams- who wrote all these "super-holy-books? M-E-N no matter what religion you claim to be the "true" one the truth is they only have a wild mans fantasy ideas written down, to influence and control other men and promote himself as a "god" why does "God" need men do do his work? Think for yourself, its just like breathing

[lifeuu]

The only thing your killing is your time.

Do you believe wind exist?

Do you believe in pain?

Or love?

1400 years ago The prophet Muhammad(saw) was giving the Holy Quran and on of the miracles in it isss. He (Allah) let the two seas (adjoining), who is fresh again and the other salty more bitter, and He made between them and the walls that impede the limit. "(QS Al-Furqan: 53).

Only resent sciences has found out that when fresh water meets with salt, they turn around and go back the other way.

[Jahan917]

You still haven't repsonded to my question, all you religion tools recite the same crap, always about wind or something none of you have the ability to think. I could make a million gueses and assumptions and if one of them is right , that must mean "God" passed on something to me? What about the thousands of scientists with theories of the Universe that were proven right? All of them mut have had "messages" from God huh? I should make up my own religion and declare "I received messages from God

[LeonGama]

Scientists state declarations of what is "wrong" or "right" with the little they know of the universe...so you are as foolish as the ones you call fools :)

To each their own...but before people become critics of something they know little, they should spend some time finding out the meaning and roots of what they want to criticize

[Jahan917]

You don't even understand what I'm saying and if you were even a little bit intelligent you could glance at my page and see otherwise.

[lifeuu]

ok ill look at your page and ill get back to you

[LeonGama]

@Jahan917

He has no physical evidence God exists...he is speaking of experience, nothing he can show you through Youtube.

He has no solid proof, but neither do you to say there is not a God.

[Jahan917]

It's been proven through science that the Brain can create experiences of "gpd" or some feelings of ectasy, or the feelings of their being someone else with you. I can say anything exists, along as no one has any evidence to say it does not, I can base that as the basis for my entire dicussion SIJsjslkdjfsiohew43 exists and its a 10 headed dragon/cat/creature and it exists on a planet on a star 10 million light years away. You have no evidence to say it doesn't exist!! So there!

[LeonGama]

Yes, you are correct :) I can not prove you wrong.

However,science is still a very delicate thing, and could be broken and reformed at any time, it is constantly changing as we as a race keep gaining knowledge of the vast world...Remember when the scientists claimed world was "flat"?It was evident to them because what they saw, with what they had, was exactly that. Although we discovered that it was far from flat later on in history.

I think it isn't wise to claim something so delicate as a fact

[Jahan917]

"Science" was stating the world was flat, while metaphysics and philosophers were saying that it was not, I know that science is very limited as it can only go as far as the people who have developed it through there mental capabilites. New things are being found and theories are being revised, because we can only understand the Universe through what our mind allows.

[Sydpart2]

well, science when claiming the world was falt wasn't at all the same as it is today, it requires much more scrutiny and theories are constantly being challenged, unlike the days when the earth was flat and no one was allowed to say otherwise.

[BosKrajina]

The point is that some will inifinetily challenge theories when they don't seem to match their idea and point of view of the existence of the world, hoping that the next theory will match. This is the real status aof atheists and their "reasoning" and "argueing".

[Sydpart2]

This seems like a huge over generalization. Why can't atheists just be people who are looking for an answer that stands up to their arguments and reasoning? I mean we all have different levels of what we're willing to accept as true, I like to think (some) atheists just have a very high standard of what to believe. And for most of them it takes a lot, like empirical evidence and test re-test reliability. The way your putting it makes it sound like atheists are putting their fingers in their ears

[BosKrajina]

And this is exactly what it is. There is no human being without a faith. Even atheism is a faith. But it is the most nonsensical one. Christianity, Atheism, Judaism Budhism, Communism etc. are all ways of life / faiths /ideologies. And they have all one in common: They are false. The only right way is to submit to the will of The Only and One God with no partners in any way, shape or form. In arabic this is called "Islam".

[Sydpart2]

This is a huge over generalization and more over a misconception. You aren't giving any arguments. All your saying is that no matter what you are if it's not Islam then you have faith and your wrong. I am asking you to argue for why a God has to exist using pure reason. All you've done is claim I have faith in the wrong idea about God.

[BosKrajina]

It is you without arguments, and you are not going to accept this, right one time more because it don't fit in your way of thinking and your wishes. In fact - reason and your conception about the world are two things you cannot bring together.

[Sydpart2]

I haven't made any arguments against your points about God yet because you haven't made any. All you've told me are your beliefs, that god is, that Islam is the only true path, and that greek reasoning is the true way to reason. You've given me nothing to argue against. I ask you to make one argument. That's it. Why (using pure reasoning) does god exist. I don't want to sound like I'm downplaying you or anything but do you know what pure reasoning is? Cause I'd be happy to define my terms.

[LeonGama]

The difference between then and now is simply universal communication and education. In the past, someone who actually knew what he was talking about mentioned something revolutionary and "illogical" (anything contrary to popular believe), would be discarded as madness by the wide uneducated public. However, if someone states something revolutionary today, huge quantities of educated individuals around the world will challenge it and prove/disprove it.

[Sydpart2]

well no, cause the scientific method has changed dramatically since ancient times. Metaphysical concepts have been removed, a lot has changed since olden days besides better communication and education. For example back when the earth was the center of the universe, it was so because that's what was observable.

[BosKrajina]

When was "the earth the center of the universe" ? .. Perhaps in europe , christianity... this is one of the sicknesses, because most are reflecting to christianity when they are talking about "religion" and science. Science can never ever explain the world. But it can help to understand parts of it and be a method that can confirm the truth.

[Sydpart2]

Let's see, it was during the Egyptian through the roman empire, and on up to the Renaissance. In ancient scientific theory of course. And I'll agree with the second half of your statement. Science will never be able to fully explain everything, and it is a useful tool to comprehend a lot of the world. But that does not mean that religion does explain everything. It's a very simple distinction, science seeks to answer how, philosophy seeks to answer why

[BosKrajina]

Yes, i mentioned them, because it usually leads to this topic. philosophy in fact is a science without knowledge. Religion is to be proven, if it is from God. So if it is, then it explains the "why" . There is a vid, which deals exactly with all the things we are talking here about. Perhaps you take the time, it is pure logic:

watch?v=H-OORKraEmM

[Sydpart2]

pm that to me please, I will watch it. But we have gotten off topic form my original query. You made a comment which basically stated God was beyond empiricism. Something that I'm willing to accept. But then that leaves God to only be an innate idea, part of rationalization. These are the only two schools of thinking in philosophy. So I'm asking you to make an argument for God based in pure reason.

[BosKrajina]

Well, then they should bring the proof that this world doesn't have a creator - and the discussion is finished. The point is - they want to BELIEVE this, and with this in their mind they make their claims.

[Schnutzzz86]

@lifeuu ..y would a god write a book and if so in what language?? u never been taght about the evolvin of language?? it would be impossible for any one to write a book when ther is no such thing as a language????

[lifeuu]

If God Idolized Him self, then where will the faith be?

and also people that for some reason hate God will do something to the Idol.

like ill get a picture of Britney spears and draw on it, same thing.

[LeonGama]

I don't think God idolizes himself...but we as much lesser beings shouldn't look down on God..therefore we need to respect was more than us :P

Kind of like you respect the president for being president..but on a muuuuch larger scale

[lifeuu]

i dont respect the president, stuff that he is a lier, i love, respect, fear, and worship God, cause he is the one that will save me in the end not some man thats acts like his doing a good job

[Ritaliation]

if the sun was closer or the sea was deeper , we wouldnt exist.

it is by exact chance that they are not that way , and that is why we do exist .

i dont understand why cunts like you exist though there is no god Can you have a nice day please?

[lifeuu]

thats the stupidest thing i heard all year, you just cant comprehend that there IS a GOD and that THIS GOD is ALL POWERFUL.

about 1400 years a God sent us the Holy Quran

in the Holy Quran there is a verse that says something about the Universe is expanding, your science has JUST DISCOVERED that.

i cant see how a man 1400 years ago can of known that space keeps expanding, if you can explane, and i will have a nice day thank you =].

[LeonGama]

Do you have proof there is no God? :)

I don't have solid evidence to claim there is ...but either do you to say there isn't.

[lifeuu]

i have all the proof that God exist, and anyone that looks for that proof will find it.

to find proof that Allah exist you must read, study and understand the Quran.all the signs are in there and even more signs all around us.

if you look for grain's of evidence, you will miss, but if you look in the sky, if you look around you, then your bound to find all the evidence you can think of.

[Jahan917]

You lost all credibility and reason the moment you said you have "prood" God exists, you aren't even worth discussing with now

[lifeuu]

are you sick?can you read? it says PROOF, "i have all the proof that God exist"

what a silly person you are, maybe your the one who isnt worthy of discussing the matter now.

[Jahan917]

You have no proof of nothing, only your blind beliefs of something you don't even understand through the concepts of another MAN

[lifeuu]

i got more proof then you can handle, maybe the reason you dont believe in a all powerful being is because you dont like the idea of being a lesser being, cause you think your better then God but guess what your not, you better then nothing.

and im not that stupid to blindly believe in something if i have no proof, i only started worshiping God, most of my life, i was LOST and now i found the truth, cause i was looking for it, try that, you might learn something.

[Jahan917]

Ok, I'll play your game, where is your "proof"

[BosKrajina]

You look around and ask me to bring proof claiming that there is no Creator? Are you silly? If there is someone to bring proof of his illogic statement then this is you and not me.

[Jahan917]

Even more silly, would to be someone that claim's someone else made or created a building/house/car, but yet there is no evidence or records of said person ever being alive, or any kind of physical interaction in this world of him ever being in existance.

[BosKrajina]

This comparison is invalid and has notjing to do with the topic. Get some basics in logic. I said once - try the old greeks, search for "causa finalis" and ask yourself what led greek philosophers to make the statement that there must be a God (even this has nothing to do with philosophy and nothing with logic but with "common sense" ) .

[Jahan917]

Actually it has everything to do with the topic, and if you can't see it then don't speak of "common sense"

[BosKrajina]

there is nothing to see. We are talking of the analysis of wits which every human has to do, there is no choice in this. What you brought up is empiricism. This is quite another subject and not relevated to the discussion.

[Jahan917]

There is a choice and something to see here, you just shut off your vision and thought concepts for your own personal for your beliefs. It's quite simple really

[BosKrajina]

either you are an ignorant or you are stupid (sorry) .

[Jahan917]

You give no kind of credible evidence or any kind of thought output here, but I'm the "idiot". You make 0 sense. Why do you even bother posting?

[Sydpart2]

Well since you mentioned empiricism, and you seem to be calming God is an innate idea, can you prove God exists using pure reason? No senses, just logic?

[BosKrajina]

How about to go to the "founders" of "logic" ? Ask them. The old greeks. They all showed up logically that there must exist God. But this in fact isn't a big matter, it is like stating 1+1 equals 2 . But for people like you it seems hard to understand this. So go to the "sources" (you europeans accept them as those) of logic and look around what they have to tell you.

[Sydpart2]

Ok 1 I'm not european...don't know where that came from, and 2 I've read some of the arguments from the creators of logic. Aristotle's is basically that everything seems to improbable to happen without a creator or God, I reject this based on newly found scientific theories of life and the universe using the logic principal of Occam's razor. But I'm asking you to give an argument for why God is based on pure reason, using no empirical means...

[BosKrajina]

Here it is again : "putting fingers in your ears" . You will allways and endless "put and base your opinion to 'newly found scientific theories' rejecting those theories before. But the way of thinking of the old greeks is no theorie - it is the way human beings are created to conclude and to think. And you will be judged for it. So there is no belief in Islam without (empirical) knowledge as you try to put in way. Islam and science go together, in fact science is one of the proofs for Islam.

[Sydpart2]

Your jumping around a lot. First your claiming God is beyond empiricism then your saying empiricism proves God. And if you think the theories posed by the ancient greeks are the only true theories then you are telling me being a woman is a birth defect (Aristotle), and that the sun revolves around the earth. The greeks posed some interesting theories and put down some good principals, but a lot of what they said was wrong.

[BosKrajina]

I am not sticking to greek philosophers - YOU atheists are the ones who talk the whole time about reason and logic. And YOU are the ones who point to the old greeks etc. So, the only thing i did is to remind you, that these 'founders' of logic came to believe in God with REASON and LOGIC like most scientists today, but you won't reflect on it, because it takes the ground away from your feet, BELIEVING such nonsense, that this world don't has to have a creator. Ask Einstein...

[Sydpart2]

dude, your jumping around to much for me to follow, and your attacking my points as if I am representative of a group. I didn't mention the greeks till you did. I made no claims about them until you brought them up. And don't act like western thinking is based on the greeks and your own is not. It was the Muslims who preserved the greek's philosophy during the dark ages.

[Schnutzzz86]

@Ritaliation .. if god created man, then why is it there is proof we evolved from apes and so forth??

[FireSign27]

@Schnutzzz86 Because God created man, through evolution maybe? If apes didnt exist in the first place, then how would humans ever evolve? Infact - if the Big Bang never happened, there would be no Universe. Energy is only converted into different forms, the amount of energy in our Universe is never icreased or decreased. Where did all this energy come from? Did it Evolve from nothing? Delusion also makes me laugh!

[Ritaliation]

next time you go pray , can you tell god from me im going to fuck him realy hard up the ass and shit in his mouth , and when he shits that out ill make him eat it again .

[lifeuu]

hahaha lol its fun watching you make a fool of your self, how can i tell god something for you if you dont believe in him? that IS the the most retarded think iv have every read, please GROW A BRAIN =p

[Mucuswindow]

Which God dude?

[gt22]

The only God. The God that created you.

[Mucuswindow]

Which God...i need to know....which of the thousands of Gods are you talking about.

[ic3man4ever]

The only One God. Read the Quran if you want to know more.

[lifeuu]

His Name Is Allah let me break it down. Al=The Ilah=God Allah =The God It is the same God Jesus(as) Prayed too and the same God Muhammad(saw) Prayed too and the same God Muslims Pray too and all the Prophets Prayed too. THE ONLY GOD EVER To say that he has a son or another that is equal to him, There is no bigger Sin. I'm not telling you to believe but im just telling you that there is just one God and he Has to be worshiped. For we can not live with out him.

[lifeuu]

ONLY Good  IS DONE by God

and the Violence and Suffering is MAN MADE

[Heroasango]

Cool! Thanks for posting.

[islamonly1]

Very interesting...

[allan3141]

That singularity, that literal nothing or that simple simple thing that went BANG, cannot have been so simple after all. So much potential (time, so much space, so much matter, mathematics, conscious living entities with volition) one would think that the metaphysical concept of purpose was there all along.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

thanks

[almulla]

what is the concept of purpose?

[allan3141]

Almulla, well, I would say something like, the mind has the capacity to handle such metaphysical ideas such as meaning justice etc. It is one of those. But words are not better than the thing itself.

[almulla]

lol i didnt get it ,

so basically,, the concept of purpose is beyond our human understanding?? or beyond our comprehension,,

[allan3141]

Amulla, i would certainly not say that, as 'Understanding' is another content of the mind. So we have some comprehension of it.

[almulla]

thanks! seems like quite an interesting topic i should look up =D

[allan3141]

almulla, you are welcome but the idea of you "looking it up" is a bit strange to me, I would say, you have a mind and so there is the best place to look it up. As Thomas Paine said "Reason obeys itself, ignorance submits to what is dictated to it." Wiki can only give you words you must comprehend the thing itself.

[almulla]

what is this thing?? im confused to be honest do you mean purpose as in what reason i see myself in living ??? sorry

[allan3141]

almulla, you see the colour yellow. When you do it is a content of your mind. You cannot ask someone else to tell you what it looks like. You agree?

[almulla]

i can but i dont need to i can agree there

[allan3141]

almulla you say "I can" but I would say you cannot, not in any real meaningful sense, be told what yellow is with words (have yellow communicated to you with words, be given or see yellow as a result of words) if you had not seen yellow before. And vice versa if you were the only person to have ever seen yellow would you really be able to let others know what you had seen with a word description?

[almulla]

that is true, but i would never known what yellow is called yellow unless it was pointed out to me right? but yes i understand that yellow has always been there if someone told me it was or not