My problem is if the Japanese finance our trade deficit with purchases of our sovereign debt. It's good for everyone if they financed it through foreign direct investment or by buying American services (trade deficit figures typically do not account for services, which when factored makes the trade deficit considerably smaller), but it's bad for us if they finance it through buying of sovereign debt. that just makes us poorer in the long run.
@migkillertwo because it's the manufacturing, production sectors that fuel the service sector... with out the trade surplus the only funding the service sector IS debt or govt which is taxes and debt, so with out a trade surplus you must have a shrinking standard of living and of services to keep a balanced budget, OR you must acquire more debt to make it function... but of course at the end of that road driven by debt is eventual destruction. You can't have it both ways, you cant JUST consume.
i understand the benfits of free trade but the reality is that most countries don't play fair. why should the u.s give other countries free access to its markets when they don't do the same?
@lvll138inrs let their governments run into huge amounts of debts through subsidies. Hey if America gets cheaper goods from overseas it would drive down the cost of living substantially, let them fuck themselves over if they play trade wars.
i do agree with a lot of what he says but not all of it goggle Bethlehem steel you'll see my point but it,s more than just the steel industry other manufacturing industry's and even farmers can,t con peat with cheap labor
i use to work for uncles in a steel fab shop so i learned about the steel industry that way and what,s happening to it a prime example is Bethlehem steel i also know fruit growers who can,t grow there own as cheap as the imports
@rickyp32 In case you have not noticed, he did not ask you to agree with his "opinion". He was stating facts that are empirically and theoritically proven. Because it is not an "opinion" but a "fact", you disagreeing with it constitutes ignorance, and a costly one at that. You have to look at the long run that realize that in the end free trade benefits all of us.
@rickyp32 Did you not listen to him? He said those US dollars eventually make it back to the US and gives increase in employment to the export jobs. All the while decreasing the cost of steel here.
Idiot, did you watch the entire video? Free trade doesn't cost us jobs. All economists support free trade. The science of free trade was established by David Ricardo in 1817.
He says that with the extra dollars that the Japanese get for their steel exports, they'll seek to purchase American goods, thereby pumping back capital into the American economy. Unfortunately, that is not so. We can just observe what happens nowadays in the trade between the USA and China to see that it doesn't occur that way.They simply hoard the excess dollars to help inflate their currency which in turn boosts their export rate.No good comes from it.
...he speaks of (in this case Japan) can manufacture things cheaper, it's not just one product they're limited to. In other words, it's not just steel they can make cheaper, but EVERYTHING! Which is exactly what is happening today with China. We're not exporting anything to China; they export everything to us. I dunno how such a brilliant economist cannot see the shortfalls of having an economy based almost solely on consumption and zero production. It's just so weird.
@regelemihai I wonder, with zero production, where is it we get the money to purchase said goods? Now I'm not sure how close this number is to zero, but the US exported $91.9 billion worth of goods to China in 2010. Also, just as one example, in 2007, the US exported over $31 billion of goods to Australia, which in turn exports such things to China as coal and uranium. On top of all of this, there is only one place to spend American dollars, in America.
" I wonder, with zero production, where is it we get the money to purchase said goods?"
Well, exactly! We don't have the money. We spend borrowed money, or one that is inflated by the printing press. We're not producing anything. Your statistic may be true, but that still leaves the question as to why we have such enormous trade imbalances.
My point was to contest what Freidman said about trade.First of all, the Chinese aren't purchaisng American with those dollars; they're hoarding them...
...in foreign exchange reserves--by the trillions! That diminishes their own currency which mkaes their exports cheaper. They're whole economy is based on that. Second, I believe absolute advantage holds more true in our case than the comparative advantage espoused by Adam Smith. A country like China that pays its workers miserable wages cannot be competed with. They can produce ANYTHING cheaper than the US; not just some products.
then just export dollars to them, dollars are just paper which cannot be used for anything but buying from the US or exhanging it into another currency but eventually it will end up back in the US.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Fuck this Rand-bot idiot. Read Karl Marx. Only Marx understands and explians capitalism.
This twit Friedman and his antedeluvian economic concepts are responsible for untold misery across the globe. He is against worker control. He simply wanted elite billionaires to continue their economic hegemony. That is how his simplistic "philosophy" boils down.
He's a fuck. His body should be dug up and bashed into small bits of mush. I loath every motherfucking thing this fuck spouted.
@bapyou Thank you for demonstrating the the Marxist position. Forget the fact that Marx was a member fo the bourgeoisie and thus, according to Marxism, unreliable. Forget that he had no grasp of economics and was, in fact, a failed journalist. Forget that every facet of history - not to mention common sense - demonstrates the absolute failure and unworkability of Marxism. Instead, let's focus on your ability to use unobjectionable language to make lucid points....
If I create a story it is real if my eyes are open and I see a table then I close my eyes and I can still see the table, it is real! Even though it not physical, an in my sight, does not mean it is not real, but I found the realist, the truth, the answer to all! The more you seek the unseen the more you will see it; click my name if you’re tired of sadness, pain.
Then why has "free" trade been an utter failure? Political systems effect economies and it's bad to have our economy mixed with a Communist political system of China. Low tariffs force Americans to do business with China, which forces us to play by China's Communist rules. This effectively makes America a Communist country. Real free trade features high tariffs against China.
@MegaAstrodude China is only communist in name. It has more free trade than Western Europe.
Also, your logic is completely wrong. High tariffs are NEVER compatible with free trade. Also, trading with a communist country doesn't make you communist, I don't even know how you thought that one up.
Finally, free trade has not been an "utter failure", as you say. Countries that have used free trade like Chile and Estonia have effectively obtained the best economies in their respective nation groups.
"China is only communist in name. It has more free trade than Western Europe."
This is a major misconception people have. In terms of allowing tremendous income inequality, it isn't really communist, but in terms of market control, it is still very much a Communist state. Just check the index of economic freedom.
" trading with a communist country doesn't make you communist"
The job losses incurred from trading with a Communist country force our government to become more Communist
Its not at all communist, theres alot of free trade going on and taxes are low.
However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back which they sometimes do by prohibiting a large company from investing in another country and stuff like that.
its a very complex situation China.
Its also not entirely a dictature it has local democracy with mayors of small towns
"However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back which they sometimes do by prohibiting a large company from investing in another country and stuff like that."
It's reason enough to slap tariffs on Chinese goods even if it'll make interest rates go up in the short term.
"China is very complex and is both free and unfree at the same time "
Logical contradictions don't exist.
"And chinese investments in America benefit america too."
Chinese investments in America expose our power grid to Chinese attack. Some investment is fine, but we shouldn't let gain control of our infrastructure.
"no because americans benefit from chinese goods."
Not too many Americans benefit. The reduction in good prices is not as great as the %reduction in wages in ppp
@MegaAstrodude hey, could you pull some statistics to show the reduction in wages? I haven't seen any evidence of a reduction in wages, at all. I don't even think it has happened in specific markets...
The US House of Representatives conducted a study that found median income for productive families declining by 5.4% from 2000 to 2006. That doesn't even take into account the numerous, government imposed, increases in college costs and job training costs--though to be fair, Friedman was staunchly against these measures ad absurdum by opposing medical licensure.
The study was called the Middle Class Squeeze.
As long as there are taxes and regs, we need strong tariffs.
"Its not at all communist, theres alot of free trade going on and taxes are low...However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back "
That is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. It's right up there with 9/11 conspiracies. China is a communist country. State officials select who can participate in business and persecute to do so. Your lies and deceptions are almost as bad as holocaust denial.
"You are the conspiracy theorist since you have obviously missed the death og Mao Zedong and the rise of Deng Xiaopeng with his market reforms."
Those market reforms are part of Communism as they are gradual. The Communist Party's stated goal is to use their Socialist Market to gradually bring about the Maoist state. This is well documented in several interviews with Hu Jintao. Their temporary "market" reforms are straight out of the Communist manifesto.
yes but the reason behind the reforms are irrelavant the point is that its a market.
and when there is a market its no longer communism.
And yes they can at any time take control again as i said earlier but i hope for the sake of the chinese people that they do not do that.
I know very well the thinking of these chinese communists and they say that communism cant be reached until capitalism has runned its course which is what they are trying now.
"And yes they can at any time take control again as i said earlier but i hope for the sake of the chinese people that they do not do that."
Hope is nice but it doesn't always get results. By letting all of the manufacturing go to China, we've set ourselves up so China can not only turn Maoist at any time, but use their leverage with rare earth metals to make everyone else Maoist.
"and when there is a market its no longer communism."
More bullshit from the communist lobby. Their market has restricted access not based on quality or skill, but based on political allegiance. Only Communists and their sympathizers are allowed free entrance to the Chinese market.
What do you mean never?! We've been approaching this method for thirty years and all it has done is detract from free enterprise everywhere else while causing accumulating trade deficits. Low tariffs cause collusion.
Face it, when you says something is "both free and unfree" you're stating a logical contradiction. That's a euphemism for a load of bullshit. The low tariff/high income tax idea has been a complete failure and is the cause for our sputtering economy.
"Countries that have used free trade like Chile and Estonia have effectively obtained the best economies in their respective nation groups."
General free trade is good, but when internal differences between nations create barriers to entry for many, government intervention in the form of tariffs can mitigate these effects to better promote economic growth. This is especially true when you're trading with a protectionist country like China.
Also, free trade with countries that are generally 'free' is a good thing. Friedman was quite right about basic free trade with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Thailand, Chile(today, post Allende), and many other countries. When the country is not a basically free country, we should not empower their system. That isn't free trade: that's sanctioning slavery.
That money will have to come back to our shores in exchange for goods that America produces, directly creating employment here in the states. As Friedman says, there is nothing we could produce more cheaply than green pieces of paper. If they kept giving us goods and only took back green pieces of paper, I couldn't imagine a better deal! But they aren't stupid, and they are going to spend that money. If a sells to b and c buys from b, c effectively bought from A.
Imports do not have to be used for consumption. Most corps that create things in the US get their batteries and plenty of other materials from outside the US. Yet, they are still selling those goods here in the US and creating jobs. They are producing and exporting BECAUSE of the imports. If they weren't able to get the parts from other countries for a cheap price, they may not be able to employ as many people in their production industry. Also providing less tax revenue for the government.
"You are a historical and economic brainwashed child who has sit in the classroom while mom and dad paid the bills." No, that is reserved for people who believe in politicians and messiahs. Rhetoric like CHANGE, YES WE CAN!, and HOPE. Only people who believe in science fiction like yourself could have ever learned the shit you spew in academia liberal la la land. Yes, I provide for myself. I have owned a shrimp business for years. Am I evil and greedy?
Rofl these stupid steelworkers just got OWNED. I dont give a fk about some stupid steelworker. If he is too stupid to move to a different industry or to do something else, than DARWINS LAW SAYS he should roll over and die already. Stop wasting precious resources like clean air.
Also notice how exactly similar the steel industry complaints back than against Japan were as their complaints against China are today. Steelworkers and the unions are FAKES and CLOWNS.
@syskall So the U.S. gives her steel industry to japan. So what about those who supported their families in the steel industry. Are you an american or a Japanese.
@louiethegreater "what about those who supported their families in the steel industry" What about those who supported their families in any other industry that went under because of a competitor? What you are saying is that 299 million people aren't as important as the minority of steel workers. We should all pay higher prices, making us poorer, to keep any one industry in business. This is total nonsense and is the opposite of growth, resource efficiency, and a higher standard of living.
@AroundSun Can you compete with .57/hr third world labor? Because without tariffs that is what you say you are willing to do. Ever heard of the Chicken Rooting for Colonal Sanders.
@louiethegreater It is amazing to hear that Free Trade is destroying our economy when it doesn't exist. NAFTA isn't free trade, it is managed trade between three countries. Subsidizing exports for political purposes is not free trade, its robbing the treasury . Imposing tariffs on imports to crush competitors is not free trade. High taxes causing jobs to export overseas isn't free trade. Halting companies from coming to our shores, competing for lower prices, and creating jobs is not free trade.
@AroundSun It is amazing to me, that you would believe that the founders of our constitution advocated free trade. They were protectionist capitalist, not laissez -faire capitalist. The US middleclass became the envy of the world behind the protectionist economy the founders preposed. It wasn't untill globalization and neo-liberalism evolved on the late 60s that our economic problems began. That is when corporate sponsered mouth pieces like Friedman were given recognition.
@louiethegreater This so called "protection" you speak of was not to protect farmers from overseas competition. The import tariffs were derived as the only way to finance the federal government. They knew a progressive income tax would be unconstitutional. They embraced Adam Smith's principles so maybe you should read the wealth of nations. The economy started going downhill in 1913 with the Federal Reserve. You sound like Lou Dobbs when he didn't understand what a trade deficit was LOL!
There was no 50% tariff on American goods during the time frame I was reffering to. Japanese did not want American goods simple. Iocca was running his mouth about his crap cars not selling in Japan. He neglected to mention that Chrysler was not capable of putting the steering wheel on the right hand side of vehicle to coincide with the Japanese roads and other vehicles.
@Gramps458 If your time frame is the 60s and 70s you are wrong, Japan had a 50% tariff on electronics, and well over that on american made textiles, ceramics, glass, autos and machine tools. They won the auto wars simply because they tariffed american made cars, not to mention heavily subsidized their industries, while we had our markets laid wide open to Japanese imports. We have no electronic industry today, and the last of our auto industry is gone now, simply because we did not tariff theirs
@louiethegreater You leave out the part about how their cars are superior and cheaper with less problems. Once again, focusing on the jobs lost instead of the jobs created, which were never created because of high taxes and subsidies to campaign contributor industries. Besides, where the does federal government get the authority to tax and spend on private companies and individuals for benevolence? Ask yourself why tons of companies have outsourced or just moved altogether.
@Around Where are the jobs created, certainly not in the high tech, state of the art industries, as promised by the Gingrich era. All those jobs went to China, India, and Vietnam. General Motors is the largest employer in Mexico, simply becaue they operate in the free trade zones along the border, where wages is two bucks, and unions are not allowed. The employees and their families live in leanto shacks built beside the state of the art factories. I do hope you land one of those jobs.
@louiethegreater Where are the jobs created? In the business service sector industries, in administration and oversight, in tech fields which repair and maintain many of the goods that are made cheaply outside our borders. Many companies that outsource can create more jobs within the states when they expand their businesses. They have the money to do this because the lower paying lower skilled jobs are offshored. Like I said, high taxation directly results in poor job growth too.
@AroundSun What you are calling job creaton is, nothing more than rhetoric straight out of the corporate sponsered think tanks like, CATO, Hoover, and Brookings. If you will look around at the real world, investment is not being made in the US, the jobs you believe are here are nothing compaired to the massive job loss through oursourcing. 52.000 manufacturing facilities have been outsourced and those high paying manufactiring jobs are being replaced with minimum wage low tech jobs.
@louiethegreater Under Jefferson they emphasized the role of agrarian America at the expense of industrialization, and encouraged free trade over political alliance. Stop naming institutes and media organizations you aren't in favor of. Like I said, provide counter arguments instead of telling me which paid off progressive science fiction troll economist laughed at who and who said what about who. I don't give a shit about tit for tat partisan politics. Speak about the issues at hand.
@louiethegreater “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
@louiethegreater The service sector. Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Media personnel, emergency services, engineering, etc. Nobody grows up and wants to work in a ball bearing factory. Technology service, maintenence, repairs, public sector jobs, automotive and aviation. The list goes on.
@AroundSun You ball bearing scenario is not logical, or even part of the Free Trade brainwashing. The con job was to produce a viable middleclass in the third world so they can conume american made products. I really don't think they will be needing ameican doctors, lawers or accountants anytime soon. It is for sure they are not going to buy american made products anytime soon. They cannot afford to buy the products they manufacture for export to the west, less on american made.
@AroundSun You ball bearing scenario is not logical, or even part of the Free Trade brainwashing. The con job was to produce a viable middleclass in the third world so they can conume american made products. I really don't think they will be needing ameican doctors, lawers or accountants anytime soon. It is for sure they are not going to buy american made products anytime soon. They cannot afford to buy the products they manufacture for export to the west, less on american made.
@louiethegreater What you're not understanding here is that every dollar that flows OUT of our economy causes each dollar that stays IN to be worth more in that time. Those dollars WILL find their way back to us, because after all, they have no value to anyone else BUT us. If China has so many of our dollars, they can trade them to Japan, or Australia, but eventually, ALL of those dollars have to find their way back to our shores. If they don't thats great, more purchasing power then.
@AroundSun The Fed must be listening to your economics. Just sell more treasuries invest more in Asia displace more american workers and than the world be be one big happy family. A slight problem with you dollar reasoning, Japan, Australia, does not want our dollars, neither does the world want them as the reserve currency. China does spend those dollars by cherry picking our mast valuable and productive assets. Buying them at bargain basement prices.
@louiethegreater Trade deficits are fallacious, do not measure profit or loss for a nation or individual trader, and are congruent with higher growth and lower unemployment. Whereas, trade surpluses (or balance, for that matter) are historically congruent with recession, depression, high unemployment, and low growth in productivity. This is verifiable, well recorded, fact. Ask yourself why certain countries don't want out dollars? Maybe because the printing press makes them worthless? BIG GOV!
@AroundSun But you support printing more dollars to buy more third world manufactured products. We need to tax China and the rest of the third world that has offered their citizens as cheap labor to multinational corporatons. With a 50% tariff we world put ameican back to work, pay off the national debt in a few years, bring the trade deficit to zero. Ameica is going no where listing to your types, you have sit in the classroom long enough to have common sense trained out of your mentality.
@louiethegreater "bring the trade deficit to zero" that is horrible. Almost 90% of economists agree that we should lift all barriers to free trade. Should Michigan subsidize their production of oranges so they don't have to trade with Florida? Should Florida make their own cars? It's really tough to grow oranges in Michigan. But Florida has no problems. People trade their surpluses for others surpluses. It benefits EVERYONE. You are an isolationist and are in the EXTREME MINORITY
@AroundSun Economists do not agree on anything, how could you say that. You are throwing in another exaggeration to make your misguided point. Here the question, is 4 billion asian workers who will work for little or nothing, force the american middleclass out of existance. The answer is yes they will! Florida and Michigan pay similar wages, have similar lifestyles, not quite the same as the US and China. I most certainly am not an isolationist, I am a protectionist, not even similar in concept.
@louiethegreater Economists do not agree on anything? Well the statistics say otherwise. Once again, you are talking out of your ass. If the survey by the AEA is incorrect, then tell me where. When you go to Starbucks, you could have made your own coffee, but your time might have been better spent doing something else. So you outsourced your coffee production, poor you right?
@louiethegreater In your illogical thought process, ANYTHING imported from one country or another technically "DESTROYS" an American industry. You don't seem to comprehend the word competition. Competing for customers by constantly lowering prices. Do you think it is bad that we killed the US Incense Stick industry? You're also missing the bigger problem of our gov borrowing the money from the countries we purchase from to turn around and buy their goods and services, with their money. DEBT
@AroundSun I believe the founders believed that if a product can be produced in America it should be. WHY? because it provides jobs for americans. Can you compete with .57/hr labor, the answer is NO, and when our economy is exposed to that demand, without protectionist policies, than investment will flow to the .57/hr labor markets. IT is being outsourced to India, manufactiring to China, and the free trade zones around the world, and the American middleclass is destroyed, is that your plan?
@louiethegreater Oh noes we won't be able to make T-shirts so we make airplanes, intellectual properties and farm equipment. Unemployment is high because of the government not free trade.
@louiethegreater Privately owned and accumulated wealth and money is not subjected to the good graces of the voting public. THis idea that because some circumstance in your life requires you to work that that should translate into legislation and become coercive power is absolutely insane! The needs of the recipient do not outweigh the rights of the provider. Just because unpopular industries that you prefer are not supplying you with jobs you want, does not mean you have some right to them.
@AroundSun The US has the ability to provide jobs for all her citizens, simply by adding a tariff to the manufactured goods produced in low wage countries. The founders of the constitution were fully aware that the world would desire to use our markets free, if they would not provide the means for american labor to be protected from multinational wage slavery, or just out and out slavery. Its simple, add tariffs, untill full employment, than stop all entitlements, a very simple solution.
@louiethegreater "The US has the ability to provide jobs for all her citizens" This sounds like something straight out of the communist manifesto. Not the US Constitution. It is not the governments responsibility to "provide jobs". Tariffs hurt the consumers of these cheaper goods. The founders were fully aware that when goods don't cross borders, armies will. Stop citing nonsense. If you have ever read ANYTHING Madison or Jefferson had wrote, you would know you're dead wrong.
@AroundSun Goods should cross borders, but you are throughly hoodwinked if you believe trade will stop armies. That con job is straight out of the one worlders handbook. We crossed Iraq's borders, Afganistan's borders, we would cross the borders of Libia, Iran, Venezuela, and any other nationalist country that stands in the way of globalizaiton. Colonization by multinational corporations is the twenty first centruries new colonialism.
@louiethegreater Oh now your'e just babbling about the NWO, Alex Jones crap, imperialism, and corporate warfare war for oil nonsense. I thought maybe you could hold a rational discussion, but I see we are just going down this path. You are saying that the world will have wars regardless of trade. Yes, thanks for stating the obvious. The question is, what nation would want to wage war on a nation they trade with that makes everyone better off? We didn't trade with the countries you named.
@AroundSun The simple answer is those countries that hate us and because of the free trade, globalization policies of our state department. My discussion is rational, you are in the abstract world of globalization by Wall Street.
@AroundSun It is governments responsability to provide jobs for the citizens of a country. That is not communist ideology, the founders provided the tariffs system of protectionism to maintain domestic industry. Democracy by wall street is a new concept, colonialism by multinationals is a neo colonialism ideal. Please do not mix up the ideology of a government attempting to produce jobs for its citizens and communism. The enviroment you so admire, China ; is communism, not the US.
@louiethegreater You are a historical and economic illiterate sir. It is not the Federal Governments job to provide jobs. You are pulling shit out of your ass and you do not know what the role of government is. That most certainly is communist ideology. Where does it say that the president is responsible for employment? Nowhere. You're not gonna win this one Chuck, you are dead wrong. Once again, we live in a Republic not a Democracy. Tariffs on imports WERE the only way to fund gov't.
@AroundSun You are a historical and economic brainwashed child who has sit in the classroom while mom and dad paid the bills. Have you ever provided for yourself. It is the role of government to provide jobs for the citizens of the country they govern. NOT for the the citizens of another country. It seems you have the roles of government confused with the interest of multinational corporations, listen close: it is in the interest of multinationals to use the U.S as a market and invest in Asia.
@louiethegreater "It is the role of government to provide jobs for the citizens of the country they govern" Wow, that is an astonishing statement. You better get that out ASAP to all the media organizations worldwide! You will be rich! Tell me where the government gets this power sir, simple question. Do you vote? Well do us all a favor, don't!
@louiethegreater Until you understand the concept that manipulative currency is irrelevant and how our money is worth more through dollar inflation every time it leaves our shores, then you can't actively participate in this discussion. The best thing they can do is rip up our currency. But they are not going to do that, they are going to spend it. Either way we benefit. Stop looking at the 5 million jobs lost, try looking at the 19 million gained as a result of NAFTA alone, which isn't free
@louiethegreater That's right. Why don't you open your eyes. It is a famous study originated by Dartmouth and was accepted by hundreds of other organizations, which all came to the same conclusions. Liberal ideology is very simple to comprehend. It's easy to go to the factory site and cover the losers, they're all in one place. It's harder to report on the winners. Companies that sent jobs abroad, hired twice as many workers at home in more productive, higher skilled, higher paying jobs.
@AroundSun I will bet that piece of research was paid for by multinationals, I am reminded of those obsurd studies all the time. At one time I would take the time to reserarch the origin of them, always, and I do mean always they were sponsered by multinationals and the outcome was pre determined. Ohio lost 400,000 jobs due to oursourcing, that is the information give by John Kasick our sitting govenor, who is a ex Liberman Bros. free trader. so what happend to those twice as many workers.
@louiethegreater I wouldn't expect much coming from someone who thinks the federal government has the authority to create jobs. You could try to provide counter arguments but liberals are scared of facts. When providing alternative solutions you are fucked. "I will bet that piece of research was paid for by multinationals" You are wasting my time, go away now. Also try to get some help for that paranoid schizophrenia you have Fucking fool. Keep playing the left and right game
@AroundSun It must be really difficult to have you butt kicked by a protectionist. Donald Trump as stated that he will tax China 50% I will work dilligently to elect him. The national debt will be paid in a few years, the trade deficit will leave, ameica will start producing again. Welfare will disappear, SS will be fully funded. The 1% who are gaining 80% of the wealth will actually have to pay taxes.
@louiethegreater Donald trump is a neo conservative. He is the very capitalist that you claim to hate so much because of "worker exploitation". If you think he is going to bring jobs back the the states you're living in a dreamland. You said: "The national debt will be paid in a few years, the trade deficit will leave" Please do not talk to me anymore. You still don't get the difference. Oh boy....
@AroundSun When did I claim to hate capitalist? Your a little dingy and choose to read your own fantisies into my posts. I am a capitaist, but I am protectionist, not a laissez-faire capitalist. You really don't have the mind to destinguish the difference. Trump promised a 50% tariff on Chinese products, that is a step in the right direction. Actually I do enjoy talking to you, I really don't get much opportunity to talk to anyone as ignorant as you are that often. Please keep up the amusement.
@louiethegreater You said: "Yes Lou Dobbs is a great american and a patriot, which you would no nothing about."
Did you miss the part where he admitted on live TV that he hasn't understood the difference between the trade deficit and our national debt his entire life? And how he wrote a book on that very subject HAHAHAHAHA. Career ender!!
@louiethegreater "ameica will start producing again. Welfare will disappear, SS will be fully funded. The 1% who are gaining 80% of the wealth will actually have to pay taxes." Oh boy, you just don't learn do you. You are still in the Obama change hope yes we can mindset. I am sure that Donald Trump is going to raise taxes on the wealthy LMFAO!! You really need to grow up. SS and Medicare are -113 TRILLION. It is impossible to pay back. You need to go to school instead of YOUTUBE
@AroundSun If 113 trillion is impossible to pay back, than we should default on the debt at once. End Wall Streets reign on the economy and give american workers a fighting chance, by protectionist policies, that the founders intended. Here the slogan we could use " IF YOU MAKE IT IN CHINA SELL IT IN CHINA " . If those sweet multinationals want to build state of the art manufacturing facilities in china, than sell the products to the Chinese, do not destroy the US economy by cheap Asian labor.
@louiethegreater If people are willing to voluntarily? select a good or service at a price that they feel is reasonable and fits their budget, which outstrips the competitors prices (FORCING ME TO BE EFFICIENT IN ORDER TO AFFORD THE PRICES), who the fuck are you to tell someone they can't buy from me or I can't do
business with them? It is not your money OR YOUR GOODS. Morons like you feel that you have the right to things simply for existing. YOU ECONOMIC ILLITERATE BRAIN DEAD MORONIC LIBERAL
@AroundSun Well simply put ; it is governments resonsability to controll the overall economy, and not allow a few slave holders to produce cheap goods in the slave holding hemisphere and export to another hemisphere to sell, thus destroying the economy of their country. If you want to sell your products in the US economy, than you cannot employ slaves, to produce the products. Actually you can use slaves if they concent, but you must pay a tax to offest your slave labor, and lack of regulation
@louiethegreater It is not governments responsibility to control the economy. Where do they get this authority from? Slaves work without pay involuntarily. You do not understand the difference. The economies in the countries that you call "slave labor" are increasing their own standards of living. Yes, Americans are choosing to buy goods from overseas, if they didn't, the goods wouldn't come to our shores. I am glad you think Trump gives a shit about you, but he doesn't.
@AroundSun Your concept of voluntary is, eliminate choice by simply destroying domestic production, and than telling folks that they buy imports by choice. Please attempt to be at least, moderatel honest. Americans are not choosing to buy thirdword goods, they do not have american made choices. Listen unemployed american cannot buy goods at any cost, that is common sense, does it escape you? Labor intrensic industries that employ people does not exist in the US.
@louiethegreater Eliminate choice? You have it backwards my friend. By blocking trade you are effectively eliminating choice. You protectionists are constantly ass backwards. Basically saying that 'individual workers in my trade union shouldn't be sacrificed for the good of society, THEREFORE individuals should be sacrificed for the benefit of my trade union.' What a fundamentally flawed argument! The US is the largest manufacturer in the world anyway you are just dead wrong.
@AroundSun Tariffs do not block trade, tariffs simple taxes a foreign business for selling their products in our markets. That is a far superior method of taxation than taxing labor. Foreign businesses that chooses to earn their wealth off the backs of the peasant populations are forced to support the governments of the countries thay sell in. Tariffs also support domestic labor, who is actually the heart of a country, not multinationa corporations.
@louiethegreater Tariffs increase the prices here in America. That is the whole point. To create an incentive to buy American made products by raising the prices of imports. WE are being taxed for importing the goods when we buy them, not taxing China! We are part of the WTO and we are limited to what kinds of tariffs we can implement. If we want to keep jobs here we should open up foreign markets to sell our goods.
@AroundSun If China wants to continue selling in our economy they will obsorb the cost of the tariff. If not americans will quit buying their products. Ameicans will invest in their own country instead of Asia. Domestic industries will put folks back to work, they will become taxpayers again, instead of looking to government for support, they will have jobs. It is ridiculous for you to believe we are going to become an export nation, multinationals can hire 47 chinese to one american.
@louiethegreater China will not absorb the cost at all. We will be taxed here in the states when a merchant has to pay for the imported goods. Passing it on to the customer and employees just like any tax in any industry. Asians are investing in OUR country. It is the other way around. They buy our bonds and give us cheap goods. You have to understand that this isn't the 1950's anymore and there is a global economy out there.
@louiethegreater "It is ridiculous for you to believe we are going to become an export nation" Uhm, we are the leading manufacturer of goods and services in the world. I don't know how that can be ridiculous. It is ridiculous to think taxing imports would benefit us since most industries within the US rely on imported goods to maintain their companies. 85% of businesses would have to layoff people JUST because of the import tariff. It would be just another unintended consequence by gov't
@louiethegreater u racist. So a human being, a child of our heavenly father who happens to be born in china is less valuable than one, who by pure chance, was born in america.
@MrHamncheez You stupid ignorant moron, I am an American, I am loyal to my own country not China. China did not fight WW1 and WW11 to save the U.S. the men and women who gave their lives in in the World Wars did not fight to defend globalizaion, they gave thier lives to defend america. You ignorant moron the chinese workers are not the recipicents of the wealth generated by globalizaion, the investement class of the world (about 10% ) are the recipicants of the exploitaion of the Chines workers
@louiethegreater So these chinese workers line up to be exploited? They save for years so they can move out of the country and into the city because they love being exploited? Maybe they are just stupid. They are too dumb to realize that they are being exploited. Or maybe the government rounds them up and force marches them into the cities.
@MrHamn Those Chinese line up to work for the same reasons americans line up to be exploited; they have to serve the corporation to survive. The Chinese leave the farm because their own Government, and the well connected chinese ( those making the bucks) offered them to multinational corporations as cheap labor. Their farm subsistance, became wage subsistance, because cash economies were created. You must be a really dim witted moron, who just shoots off your big ignorant mouth without thought.
@louiethegreater so.... their farm wages are better than the "evil corporations" wages? If the farm wages were better, then why would they move away from them? THE CORPORATIONS OFFER A HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING THAN THE NEXT BEST ALTERNATIVE. They make the workers lives better.
Calling someone a moron doesnt help your arugement. Some evidence (which there is none) would better support your argument.
@MrHamnchee I call you a moron because you are a functioning moron, another dim witt that calls someone a racist, and believes there will be no retalitation for it. Listen real close, the peasants left the farm because a cash economy was forced on them, you dingbat. They were offered to multinationals as cheap labor by the chinese government and the well connected chinese investors. Listen again!!!!! for the purpose of attracing global investment, multinationals profit went to 3 and 4 hundred %
@M The american middleclass's wealth has been redistributed to multinational corporations. Fifty percent of american do not even earn enough to reach the threshold to pay federal income taces. American manufacturing that actually employ people are gone. Wall Street does just fine, off the backs of Cheap Asian labor. Find someone to explain globalization to you, and consider you are not one of the well connected investment class. 80% of all new wealth created in U.S went to 1% of the population.
@AroundSun If I am wasting your time, I must believe you have much time to waste. It is certain you do not hole down a job, or support a family. You could not remain that ignorant and support a family.
@louiethegreater But the media won't cover that, because the hiring is less dramatic. It happens quietly, gradually, and in a million places not in just one industry. So trade is criticized. I would rather be engineering and designing equipment and consumer electronics than putting them together. Nations that are pulled out of the third world outsource the jobs they were given too. So on an so forth until automation replaces those jobs. Then you will have tech's maintaining the equipment.
@Aro Kids raised by gangbanges are not going to become design engineers, but they can work on the assembly line in the local factory. Your example is just plain nonsense, some pie in the sky exaggeration, probably thought up by a laissez-faire free traider. You should understand this----- workers are not pulled out of third world poverty, the wall street investers only get richer, third world workers stay in poverty. Multinational profite soar to new hights 200% 300% 400% on the backs of labor.
@louiethegreater When you argue facts that even the far left has come to agree with (because they would look downright silly if they ignored them) you make yourself look foolish. Just stop it. It is easy to comprehend liberal market principle but it takes true intelligence to understand how basic functions of a society can be provided through a free market. Watch the you-tube video Stossel Lou Dobbs free trade. You are the Lou Dobbs of the discussion.
@louiethegreater Can we get you on the record supporting ONE regulation you would be in favor of against free trade? Anything? Any plans? Of course not, you are a Dobbs fan! Oh you like Lou Dobbs? It figures! It all makes sense now! Ok, watch this! /watch?v=TCc19xxqr_I . and fast forward to 7:33. There is your hero in action!
@AroundSun Did you say "can we get you on record " does that mean there are two of you. Hope not your parents are in a world of hurt if there are two of you. Heres all that needs to be done to bring america out of the deperssed condition she is in. Just add tariffs at the borders, that offset the cost of labor and regulation. Yes Lou Dobbs is a great american and a patriot, which you would no nothing about. You would gladly trade in your ameican citizenship for a global one.
@louiethegreater You can't just throw a 50% tax on imports LOL. Even if you could, he wouldn't do it anyway. Im sure Donald Trump wants to pay higher prices for goods and increase overhead. He is a builder and many of his products come from China. US producers can't compete with the glass manufacturers in other countries. He won't mind the higher real estate prices and the less revenues right? No way, he is a businessmen. He's definately more worried about the well being of you and me.pff
@AroundSun I know it would be hard for a globalist to produce some sentiment of patriotism for the US, but Mr. Trump displays a high level of patriotism and appreciation for what the country has done for him. Those concepts would be alien to you, because you are a citizen of the world and claim no loyalty to any country. Trump stated on the Neil Cavito Show that he rejected products made in China, for american made. Don't that just frost you, but spare, me and learn to live with it.
@louiethegreater Bla Bla Bla...You don't know patriotism from a hole in the ground. Neil Cavuto doesn't buy Chinese, yes. But he doesn't believe in protectionism. You sir are a retard. Free Markets work, Protectionism fails just like you, simple.
I didn't say anything a about Cavuto not buying Chinese. I said Donald Trump said on the Cavuto interview that he (Trump) bought ameican made products. I realize Cavuto is a global free trader just like you, he was very uncomfortable interviewing Trump, about taxing Chinese products. You could sense he supported tha Wall Street crowd, and especially globalization, a world without nationstates, one ethnicity, one race, only one devision, that would be the super rich and poor. 17th century euro
@AroundSun Perhaps you could explain why the more the US moves toward free markets, the poorer 90% of her citizens become. Treat me with a good belly laugh, explain to me how ameican labor competes with .57/hr. Chinese labor, or .30/hr Nicaraguain labor, or .15/hr. Bangladeshie labor.
@louiethegreater Ugh, you are mind numbing. "Perhaps you could explain why the more the US moves toward free markets, the poorer 90% of her citizens become." We have been moving towards more government since the 1930's, open your eyes. Oh yea, the US is still the breadbasket of the world and produces the most goods and services. So much for "all our jobs went to china".
@louiethegreater Trump is a phony. If you can't see right through him then you are absolutely brain dead. He will probably export more of "your" jobs out of the country while cutting taxes and subsidizing his friends. He is totally paid off. What an idiot thing to say on his 'purchased weekly spot' on FOX. So he expects to be our president with statements like, "China is ripping us off." Yeah...he'll get real far
@AroundSun Did you say "your jobs"? Don't quite know how to grasp that statement. They are american jobs, needed by ameicans to support their families. Trump has the courage to address tariffs, and tariffs are the only solution to the drain on american jobs, and the salvation of the middleclass. I admire him for that, I wrote and advised him to add extra security.
@louiethegreater Besides, he is a builder and will not raise taxes on imports. It is all BS. Grow up. All of his friends are dependent on imports and foreign labor. You are falling for the Obama Vision all over again
@AroundSun I know it would be hard for a globalist to produce some sentiment of patriotism for the US, but Mr. Trump displays a high level of patriotism and appreciation for what the country has done for him. Those concepts would be alien to you, because you are a citizen of the world and claim no loyalty to any country. Trump stated on the Neil Cavito Show that he rejected products made in China, for american made. Don't that just frost you, but spare, me and learn to live with it.
@louiethegreater Nice job of taking facts cited with sources, and then saying naahhh I dont believe it. People like you don't understand trade deficit. You think it has something to do with debt. And you don't even believe that our debt outstrips the worlds economic output, when you can easily take a quick look at any chart. But no, those are all paid off by MULTINATIONALS. LOL. Even the CBO and the governments data. As well as the debtclock in Manhattan. All are wrong, you you're right
@AroundSun Hey you are the one who don't like big government, but wait, you do like their statistical information right. You enjoy the spin, designed to convince fools they are not being globalized, and deindustrialized, and their middleclass's wealth is being redistributed to the multinational corporations, who are the new colonialism empires. Globalization is riding on the vehicle of free trade, only hoodwinked fools do not know that.
@louiethegreater You are supporting monopoly power within the US if you are saying we should pay whatever price for goods and services without question. What if it cost your life savings to keep 1 job, and I am the only one in the US who sold TV's. You should all support me in your twisted logic right? Even if the TV's were $40,000 each?! But Japan is selling them for $300 ea. So you must be American and only support me correct? You are fucking braindead.
@louiethegreater It wasn't a big deal because there was no income tax. Southern states had borne heavy costs since tariffs protected northern manufacturing at the expense of Southern imports. The South exported agricultural commodities and imported almost all the goods it consumed, either from abroad or from Northern states. Tariffs drastically raised the cost of goods in the Southern states, while most of the tariff revenue was spent in the North. Its more complicated than you think
@louiethegreater Economic isolationism hurts everyone as a whole. For liberals who appeal to emotions and bleeding hearts, you sure want the very ones you intend to benefit to suffer the most. I am on your side, but you are not.
@AroundSun Heres a test of patriotism:: would you pay $2,000.00 more for a car to keep 5 million more americans employed? If you would not than you are a citizen of the global community and should be denied citizenship to the US. Our economy depends on domestic manufacturing, and we have been stripped of labor intrensic manufacturing.
@louiethegreater You are asking a question of price and not principle. Suppose it cost 200,000 to keep 1 million jobs, then should I buy American cars? Suppose it cost 2 MIL to keep 50,000 jobs in the auto industry. Should I have to pay that? Don't give me this patriotic bullshit. Special interests fight to keep their subsidies to reduce competition, which makes us poorer. We are all already citizens of the global economy. Your computer was made in Asia. You should be denied citizenship
@AroundSun Your response if illogical, because you cannot answer the question, you throw in a exaggeration to confuse the issue. My queston is simple should americans be willing to pay more for products in order to have full employment of their own countrymen. You obviously are one who would prefure that keeping others unemployed is somehow advantagious to you, or you would prefure the US become third world also. When all is manufactured outside the country our economy will be destroyed.
@louiethegreater "because you cannot answer the question" LOL what question? I have asked you to tell me where the government gets this power you claim it has. I think you are the one avoiding the question my friend.
@louiethegreater The idea that Americans should do something and the idea that Americans should be forced to do something are two totally different questions. Once again you are are only talking about price and not principle. What if the price was 2,000,000 per car to keep certain industries in business? Should Michigan pay higher prices for oranges to maintain expensive equipment? Or should they do what they do best, sell their cars for Florida's surplus of oranges at a cheaper price?
@louiethegreater Trade is a machine that allows florida farmers to turn oranges into cars, and medicines. They can't grow cell phones on their trees in Florida. They grow oranges REALLY WELL. What they can do is take those oranges and trade them for phones, cars from Detroit, or Germany, wherever. It makes themselves richer. If it were the role of government to create jobs we would all be equally poor, digging ditches, but we'd have full employment.
@AroundSun Would 4 billion low wage laborers, from computer whiz kids to ditch diggers, show up as a comparitave advantage for asia. Yes it will and american workers cannot compete with that.
@louiethegreater Yes, this is good, we are getting rid of the shitty jobs and moving on. Same way our ancestors did during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Our grandparents for the most part had shitty jobs. They were able to earn enough to not only make their lives better, but to make it better for their children. We stand on their shoulders and are proof of how far we have come. Free from high taxes and regulation of course, which has impeded our progress.We also help 3rd world
My problem is if the Japanese finance our trade deficit with purchases of our sovereign debt. It's good for everyone if they financed it through foreign direct investment or by buying American services (trade deficit figures typically do not account for services, which when factored makes the trade deficit considerably smaller), but it's bad for us if they finance it through buying of sovereign debt. that just makes us poorer in the long run.
migkillertwo 2 weeks ago
@migkillertwo because it's the manufacturing, production sectors that fuel the service sector... with out the trade surplus the only funding the service sector IS debt or govt which is taxes and debt, so with out a trade surplus you must have a shrinking standard of living and of services to keep a balanced budget, OR you must acquire more debt to make it function... but of course at the end of that road driven by debt is eventual destruction. You can't have it both ways, you cant JUST consume.
droppertrental 1 week ago
NAFTA=EPICFAIL
dfg93353 3 months ago
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look up Bethlehem steel you,ll see my point
rickyp32 3 months ago
i understand the benfits of free trade but the reality is that most countries don't play fair. why should the u.s give other countries free access to its markets when they don't do the same?
lvll138inrs 3 months ago
@lvll138inrs let their governments run into huge amounts of debts through subsidies. Hey if America gets cheaper goods from overseas it would drive down the cost of living substantially, let them fuck themselves over if they play trade wars.
ASTEagle 3 months ago
@lvll138inrs Define "play fair"
SkepticThink 2 months ago
i do agree with a lot of what he says but not all of it goggle Bethlehem steel you'll see my point but it,s more than just the steel industry other manufacturing industry's and even farmers can,t con peat with cheap labor
rickyp32 3 months ago
i use to work for uncles in a steel fab shop so i learned about the steel industry that way and what,s happening to it a prime example is Bethlehem steel i also know fruit growers who can,t grow there own as cheap as the imports
rickyp32 4 months ago
@rickyp32 In case you have not noticed, he did not ask you to agree with his "opinion". He was stating facts that are empirically and theoritically proven. Because it is not an "opinion" but a "fact", you disagreeing with it constitutes ignorance, and a costly one at that. You have to look at the long run that realize that in the end free trade benefits all of us.
vdinh2 3 months ago
@vdinh2 your a fn moron ,get the f@ck out of my country!!!
jewls323 3 months ago
i like Milton Friedman but don,t agree with free trade cheap imports and out sourcing under mine owe economy and cost American jobs
rickyp32 4 months ago
@rickyp32 Did you not listen to him? He said those US dollars eventually make it back to the US and gives increase in employment to the export jobs. All the while decreasing the cost of steel here.
superlucci 4 months ago
@rickyp32
Idiot, did you watch the entire video? Free trade doesn't cost us jobs. All economists support free trade. The science of free trade was established by David Ricardo in 1817.
LogicalFlawDetector 3 months ago
He says that with the extra dollars that the Japanese get for their steel exports, they'll seek to purchase American goods, thereby pumping back capital into the American economy. Unfortunately, that is not so. We can just observe what happens nowadays in the trade between the USA and China to see that it doesn't occur that way.They simply hoard the excess dollars to help inflate their currency which in turn boosts their export rate.No good comes from it.
Also, when that one country... (cont
regelemihai 4 months ago
...he speaks of (in this case Japan) can manufacture things cheaper, it's not just one product they're limited to. In other words, it's not just steel they can make cheaper, but EVERYTHING! Which is exactly what is happening today with China. We're not exporting anything to China; they export everything to us. I dunno how such a brilliant economist cannot see the shortfalls of having an economy based almost solely on consumption and zero production. It's just so weird.
regelemihai 4 months ago
@regelemihai I wonder, with zero production, where is it we get the money to purchase said goods? Now I'm not sure how close this number is to zero, but the US exported $91.9 billion worth of goods to China in 2010. Also, just as one example, in 2007, the US exported over $31 billion of goods to Australia, which in turn exports such things to China as coal and uranium. On top of all of this, there is only one place to spend American dollars, in America.
FrolickyNosh 4 months ago
" I wonder, with zero production, where is it we get the money to purchase said goods?"
Well, exactly! We don't have the money. We spend borrowed money, or one that is inflated by the printing press. We're not producing anything. Your statistic may be true, but that still leaves the question as to why we have such enormous trade imbalances.
My point was to contest what Freidman said about trade.First of all, the Chinese aren't purchaisng American with those dollars; they're hoarding them...
regelemihai 4 months ago
...in foreign exchange reserves--by the trillions! That diminishes their own currency which mkaes their exports cheaper. They're whole economy is based on that. Second, I believe absolute advantage holds more true in our case than the comparative advantage espoused by Adam Smith. A country like China that pays its workers miserable wages cannot be competed with. They can produce ANYTHING cheaper than the US; not just some products.
regelemihai 4 months ago
@regelemihai
then just export dollars to them, dollars are just paper which cannot be used for anything but buying from the US or exhanging it into another currency but eventually it will end up back in the US.
unfad1ng 4 months ago
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Fuck this Rand-bot idiot. Read Karl Marx. Only Marx understands and explians capitalism.
This twit Friedman and his antedeluvian economic concepts are responsible for untold misery across the globe. He is against worker control. He simply wanted elite billionaires to continue their economic hegemony. That is how his simplistic "philosophy" boils down.
He's a fuck. His body should be dug up and bashed into small bits of mush. I loath every motherfucking thing this fuck spouted.
bapyou 5 months ago
@bapyou "Read Karl Marx. Only Marx understands and explians capitalism."
LOL
google this article: "Marx's racism" by Walter Williams. I can't post what Marx said, they are too horrible.
kaziqbal 5 months ago
@bapyou Thank you for demonstrating the the Marxist position. Forget the fact that Marx was a member fo the bourgeoisie and thus, according to Marxism, unreliable. Forget that he had no grasp of economics and was, in fact, a failed journalist. Forget that every facet of history - not to mention common sense - demonstrates the absolute failure and unworkability of Marxism. Instead, let's focus on your ability to use unobjectionable language to make lucid points....
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
FletchforFreedom 5 months ago in playlist Milton Friedman
Tariffs are unnatural and do not belong in free market capitalism no matter how thoughtful the reasoning
ridiculusstimulus 5 months ago
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If I create a story it is real if my eyes are open and I see a table then I close my eyes and I can still see the table, it is real! Even though it not physical, an in my sight, does not mean it is not real, but I found the realist, the truth, the answer to all! The more you seek the unseen the more you will see it; click my name if you’re tired of sadness, pain.
tabaripalmer 7 months ago
the smartest man of our time
trigger0704 7 months ago
@trigger0704,
Then why has "free" trade been an utter failure? Political systems effect economies and it's bad to have our economy mixed with a Communist political system of China. Low tariffs force Americans to do business with China, which forces us to play by China's Communist rules. This effectively makes America a Communist country. Real free trade features high tariffs against China.
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
@MegaAstrodude China is only communist in name. It has more free trade than Western Europe.
Also, your logic is completely wrong. High tariffs are NEVER compatible with free trade. Also, trading with a communist country doesn't make you communist, I don't even know how you thought that one up.
Finally, free trade has not been an "utter failure", as you say. Countries that have used free trade like Chile and Estonia have effectively obtained the best economies in their respective nation groups.
doom032 7 months ago
@doom032,
"China is only communist in name. It has more free trade than Western Europe."
This is a major misconception people have. In terms of allowing tremendous income inequality, it isn't really communist, but in terms of market control, it is still very much a Communist state. Just check the index of economic freedom.
" trading with a communist country doesn't make you communist"
The job losses incurred from trading with a Communist country force our government to become more Communist
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
Its not at all communist, theres alot of free trade going on and taxes are low.
However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back which they sometimes do by prohibiting a large company from investing in another country and stuff like that.
its a very complex situation China.
Its also not entirely a dictature it has local democracy with mayors of small towns
unfad1ng 5 months ago
@unfad1ng,
"However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back which they sometimes do by prohibiting a large company from investing in another country and stuff like that."
It's reason enough to slap tariffs on Chinese goods even if it'll make interest rates go up in the short term.
MegaAstrodude 5 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
no because americans benefit from chinese goods.
And chinese investments in America benefit america too.
China is very complex and is both free and unfree at the same time and people there arent sufferign anymore so theres no reason to impose tarrifs
unfad1ng 5 months ago
@unfad1ng,
"China is very complex and is both free and unfree at the same time "
Logical contradictions don't exist.
"And chinese investments in America benefit america too."
Chinese investments in America expose our power grid to Chinese attack. Some investment is fine, but we shouldn't let gain control of our infrastructure.
"no because americans benefit from chinese goods."
Not too many Americans benefit. The reduction in good prices is not as great as the %reduction in wages in ppp
MegaAstrodude 5 months ago
@MegaAstrodude hey, could you pull some statistics to show the reduction in wages? I haven't seen any evidence of a reduction in wages, at all. I don't even think it has happened in specific markets...
FrolickyNosh 4 months ago
@FrolickyNosh,
The US House of Representatives conducted a study that found median income for productive families declining by 5.4% from 2000 to 2006. That doesn't even take into account the numerous, government imposed, increases in college costs and job training costs--though to be fair, Friedman was staunchly against these measures ad absurdum by opposing medical licensure.
The study was called the Middle Class Squeeze.
As long as there are taxes and regs, we need strong tariffs.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@unfad1ng,
"Its not at all communist, theres alot of free trade going on and taxes are low...However the government still has complete control , its just that they have given it away but they can at any time take it back "
That is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. It's right up there with 9/11 conspiracies. China is a communist country. State officials select who can participate in business and persecute to do so. Your lies and deceptions are almost as bad as holocaust denial.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
...
Im afriad you dont know you facts sir.
You are the conspiracy theorist since you have obviously missed the death og Mao Zedong and the rise of Deng Xiaopeng with his market reforms.
The state barely has any monopolys and most of the countries wealth is owned by private individuals.
and the state does not direct everything
unfad1ng 4 months ago
@unfad1ng,
"You are the conspiracy theorist since you have obviously missed the death og Mao Zedong and the rise of Deng Xiaopeng with his market reforms."
Those market reforms are part of Communism as they are gradual. The Communist Party's stated goal is to use their Socialist Market to gradually bring about the Maoist state. This is well documented in several interviews with Hu Jintao. Their temporary "market" reforms are straight out of the Communist manifesto.
China is a Communist nation.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
yes but the reason behind the reforms are irrelavant the point is that its a market.
and when there is a market its no longer communism.
And yes they can at any time take control again as i said earlier but i hope for the sake of the chinese people that they do not do that.
I know very well the thinking of these chinese communists and they say that communism cant be reached until capitalism has runned its course which is what they are trying now.
unfad1ng 4 months ago
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@unfad1ng,
"And yes they can at any time take control again as i said earlier but i hope for the sake of the chinese people that they do not do that."
Hope is nice but it doesn't always get results. By letting all of the manufacturing go to China, we've set ourselves up so China can not only turn Maoist at any time, but use their leverage with rare earth metals to make everyone else Maoist.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@unfad1ng,
"and when there is a market its no longer communism."
More bullshit from the communist lobby. Their market has restricted access not based on quality or skill, but based on political allegiance. Only Communists and their sympathizers are allowed free entrance to the Chinese market.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
youll obviously never approach this with an open-mind nad you will never understand the complex situation of China
unfad1ng 4 months ago
@unfad1ng,
What do you mean never?! We've been approaching this method for thirty years and all it has done is detract from free enterprise everywhere else while causing accumulating trade deficits. Low tariffs cause collusion.
Face it, when you says something is "both free and unfree" you're stating a logical contradiction. That's a euphemism for a load of bullshit. The low tariff/high income tax idea has been a complete failure and is the cause for our sputtering economy.
MegaAstrodude 4 months ago
@MegaAstrodude
yes it has been a failure with all the regulations.
But there is really no society which is completly free. China is free in some ways but unfree in others.
Same as the USA, americans are free most of the time but when they use drugs for example they are not a free nation.
unfad1ng 4 months ago
@doom032,
"Countries that have used free trade like Chile and Estonia have effectively obtained the best economies in their respective nation groups."
General free trade is good, but when internal differences between nations create barriers to entry for many, government intervention in the form of tariffs can mitigate these effects to better promote economic growth. This is especially true when you're trading with a protectionist country like China.
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
@doom032,
Also, free trade with countries that are generally 'free' is a good thing. Friedman was quite right about basic free trade with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Thailand, Chile(today, post Allende), and many other countries. When the country is not a basically free country, we should not empower their system. That isn't free trade: that's sanctioning slavery.
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
Friedman to the U.S.economy, is the sane as the sexual revolution to family values.
louiethegreater 8 months ago
He is definitely flipping us off at 5:30.
Darkersun 8 months ago
That money will have to come back to our shores in exchange for goods that America produces, directly creating employment here in the states. As Friedman says, there is nothing we could produce more cheaply than green pieces of paper. If they kept giving us goods and only took back green pieces of paper, I couldn't imagine a better deal! But they aren't stupid, and they are going to spend that money. If a sells to b and c buys from b, c effectively bought from A.
AroundSun 9 months ago
Imports do not have to be used for consumption. Most corps that create things in the US get their batteries and plenty of other materials from outside the US. Yet, they are still selling those goods here in the US and creating jobs. They are producing and exporting BECAUSE of the imports. If they weren't able to get the parts from other countries for a cheap price, they may not be able to employ as many people in their production industry. Also providing less tax revenue for the government.
AroundSun 9 months ago
"You are a historical and economic brainwashed child who has sit in the classroom while mom and dad paid the bills." No, that is reserved for people who believe in politicians and messiahs. Rhetoric like CHANGE, YES WE CAN!, and HOPE. Only people who believe in science fiction like yourself could have ever learned the shit you spew in academia liberal la la land. Yes, I provide for myself. I have owned a shrimp business for years. Am I evil and greedy?
AroundSun 9 months ago
Fantastic explanation of comparative advantage. and he wasnt even answering a question on that.
adulby 9 months ago
I read this argument in his book Free to Choose. Counterintuitive, but real.
LogicalFlawDetector 9 months ago
Rofl these stupid steelworkers just got OWNED. I dont give a fk about some stupid steelworker. If he is too stupid to move to a different industry or to do something else, than DARWINS LAW SAYS he should roll over and die already. Stop wasting precious resources like clean air.
Also notice how exactly similar the steel industry complaints back than against Japan were as their complaints against China are today. Steelworkers and the unions are FAKES and CLOWNS.
Elbottoo 9 months ago
@louiethegreater and Japan has no software industry... As Milton Friedman explained, the jobs move elsewhere...
syskall 10 months ago
@syskall So the U.S. gives her steel industry to japan. So what about those who supported their families in the steel industry. Are you an american or a Japanese.
louiethegreater 10 months ago
@louiethegreater "what about those who supported their families in the steel industry" What about those who supported their families in any other industry that went under because of a competitor? What you are saying is that 299 million people aren't as important as the minority of steel workers. We should all pay higher prices, making us poorer, to keep any one industry in business. This is total nonsense and is the opposite of growth, resource efficiency, and a higher standard of living.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Can you compete with .57/hr third world labor? Because without tariffs that is what you say you are willing to do. Ever heard of the Chicken Rooting for Colonal Sanders.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater It is amazing to hear that Free Trade is destroying our economy when it doesn't exist. NAFTA isn't free trade, it is managed trade between three countries. Subsidizing exports for political purposes is not free trade, its robbing the treasury . Imposing tariffs on imports to crush competitors is not free trade. High taxes causing jobs to export overseas isn't free trade. Halting companies from coming to our shores, competing for lower prices, and creating jobs is not free trade.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun It is amazing to me, that you would believe that the founders of our constitution advocated free trade. They were protectionist capitalist, not laissez -faire capitalist. The US middleclass became the envy of the world behind the protectionist economy the founders preposed. It wasn't untill globalization and neo-liberalism evolved on the late 60s that our economic problems began. That is when corporate sponsered mouth pieces like Friedman were given recognition.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater This so called "protection" you speak of was not to protect farmers from overseas competition. The import tariffs were derived as the only way to finance the federal government. They knew a progressive income tax would be unconstitutional. They embraced Adam Smith's principles so maybe you should read the wealth of nations. The economy started going downhill in 1913 with the Federal Reserve. You sound like Lou Dobbs when he didn't understand what a trade deficit was LOL!
AroundSun 9 months ago
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AroundSun 9 months ago
The steel industry left the country by leaps and bounds in the 60s and 70s. Youngstown, Ohio had been stripped clean by the 80s.
louiethegreater 10 months ago
I'm mid 80's
Gramps458 10 months ago
There was no 50% tariff on American goods during the time frame I was reffering to. Japanese did not want American goods simple. Iocca was running his mouth about his crap cars not selling in Japan. He neglected to mention that Chrysler was not capable of putting the steering wheel on the right hand side of vehicle to coincide with the Japanese roads and other vehicles.
Gramps458 10 months ago
@Gramps458 If your time frame is the 60s and 70s you are wrong, Japan had a 50% tariff on electronics, and well over that on american made textiles, ceramics, glass, autos and machine tools. They won the auto wars simply because they tariffed american made cars, not to mention heavily subsidized their industries, while we had our markets laid wide open to Japanese imports. We have no electronic industry today, and the last of our auto industry is gone now, simply because we did not tariff theirs
louiethegreater 10 months ago
@louiethegreater You leave out the part about how their cars are superior and cheaper with less problems. Once again, focusing on the jobs lost instead of the jobs created, which were never created because of high taxes and subsidies to campaign contributor industries. Besides, where the does federal government get the authority to tax and spend on private companies and individuals for benevolence? Ask yourself why tons of companies have outsourced or just moved altogether.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@Around Where are the jobs created, certainly not in the high tech, state of the art industries, as promised by the Gingrich era. All those jobs went to China, India, and Vietnam. General Motors is the largest employer in Mexico, simply becaue they operate in the free trade zones along the border, where wages is two bucks, and unions are not allowed. The employees and their families live in leanto shacks built beside the state of the art factories. I do hope you land one of those jobs.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Where are the jobs created? In the business service sector industries, in administration and oversight, in tech fields which repair and maintain many of the goods that are made cheaply outside our borders. Many companies that outsource can create more jobs within the states when they expand their businesses. They have the money to do this because the lower paying lower skilled jobs are offshored. Like I said, high taxation directly results in poor job growth too.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun What you are calling job creaton is, nothing more than rhetoric straight out of the corporate sponsered think tanks like, CATO, Hoover, and Brookings. If you will look around at the real world, investment is not being made in the US, the jobs you believe are here are nothing compaired to the massive job loss through oursourcing. 52.000 manufacturing facilities have been outsourced and those high paying manufactiring jobs are being replaced with minimum wage low tech jobs.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Under Jefferson they emphasized the role of agrarian America at the expense of industrialization, and encouraged free trade over political alliance. Stop naming institutes and media organizations you aren't in favor of. Like I said, provide counter arguments instead of telling me which paid off progressive science fiction troll economist laughed at who and who said what about who. I don't give a shit about tit for tat partisan politics. Speak about the issues at hand.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater The service sector. Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Media personnel, emergency services, engineering, etc. Nobody grows up and wants to work in a ball bearing factory. Technology service, maintenence, repairs, public sector jobs, automotive and aviation. The list goes on.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun You ball bearing scenario is not logical, or even part of the Free Trade brainwashing. The con job was to produce a viable middleclass in the third world so they can conume american made products. I really don't think they will be needing ameican doctors, lawers or accountants anytime soon. It is for sure they are not going to buy american made products anytime soon. They cannot afford to buy the products they manufacture for export to the west, less on american made.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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@AroundSun You ball bearing scenario is not logical, or even part of the Free Trade brainwashing. The con job was to produce a viable middleclass in the third world so they can conume american made products. I really don't think they will be needing ameican doctors, lawers or accountants anytime soon. It is for sure they are not going to buy american made products anytime soon. They cannot afford to buy the products they manufacture for export to the west, less on american made.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater What you're not understanding here is that every dollar that flows OUT of our economy causes each dollar that stays IN to be worth more in that time. Those dollars WILL find their way back to us, because after all, they have no value to anyone else BUT us. If China has so many of our dollars, they can trade them to Japan, or Australia, but eventually, ALL of those dollars have to find their way back to our shores. If they don't thats great, more purchasing power then.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun The Fed must be listening to your economics. Just sell more treasuries invest more in Asia displace more american workers and than the world be be one big happy family. A slight problem with you dollar reasoning, Japan, Australia, does not want our dollars, neither does the world want them as the reserve currency. China does spend those dollars by cherry picking our mast valuable and productive assets. Buying them at bargain basement prices.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Trade deficits are fallacious, do not measure profit or loss for a nation or individual trader, and are congruent with higher growth and lower unemployment. Whereas, trade surpluses (or balance, for that matter) are historically congruent with recession, depression, high unemployment, and low growth in productivity. This is verifiable, well recorded, fact. Ask yourself why certain countries don't want out dollars? Maybe because the printing press makes them worthless? BIG GOV!
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun But you support printing more dollars to buy more third world manufactured products. We need to tax China and the rest of the third world that has offered their citizens as cheap labor to multinational corporatons. With a 50% tariff we world put ameican back to work, pay off the national debt in a few years, bring the trade deficit to zero. Ameica is going no where listing to your types, you have sit in the classroom long enough to have common sense trained out of your mentality.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater "bring the trade deficit to zero" that is horrible. Almost 90% of economists agree that we should lift all barriers to free trade. Should Michigan subsidize their production of oranges so they don't have to trade with Florida? Should Florida make their own cars? It's really tough to grow oranges in Michigan. But Florida has no problems. People trade their surpluses for others surpluses. It benefits EVERYONE. You are an isolationist and are in the EXTREME MINORITY
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Economists do not agree on anything, how could you say that. You are throwing in another exaggeration to make your misguided point. Here the question, is 4 billion asian workers who will work for little or nothing, force the american middleclass out of existance. The answer is yes they will! Florida and Michigan pay similar wages, have similar lifestyles, not quite the same as the US and China. I most certainly am not an isolationist, I am a protectionist, not even similar in concept.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Economists do not agree on anything? Well the statistics say otherwise. Once again, you are talking out of your ass. If the survey by the AEA is incorrect, then tell me where. When you go to Starbucks, you could have made your own coffee, but your time might have been better spent doing something else. So you outsourced your coffee production, poor you right?
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater In your illogical thought process, ANYTHING imported from one country or another technically "DESTROYS" an American industry. You don't seem to comprehend the word competition. Competing for customers by constantly lowering prices. Do you think it is bad that we killed the US Incense Stick industry? You're also missing the bigger problem of our gov borrowing the money from the countries we purchase from to turn around and buy their goods and services, with their money. DEBT
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun I believe the founders believed that if a product can be produced in America it should be. WHY? because it provides jobs for americans. Can you compete with .57/hr labor, the answer is NO, and when our economy is exposed to that demand, without protectionist policies, than investment will flow to the .57/hr labor markets. IT is being outsourced to India, manufactiring to China, and the free trade zones around the world, and the American middleclass is destroyed, is that your plan?
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Oh noes we won't be able to make T-shirts so we make airplanes, intellectual properties and farm equipment. Unemployment is high because of the government not free trade.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Unemployment is high because all tariff protections were removed through the fantasy of free trade.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Privately owned and accumulated wealth and money is not subjected to the good graces of the voting public. THis idea that because some circumstance in your life requires you to work that that should translate into legislation and become coercive power is absolutely insane! The needs of the recipient do not outweigh the rights of the provider. Just because unpopular industries that you prefer are not supplying you with jobs you want, does not mean you have some right to them.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun The US has the ability to provide jobs for all her citizens, simply by adding a tariff to the manufactured goods produced in low wage countries. The founders of the constitution were fully aware that the world would desire to use our markets free, if they would not provide the means for american labor to be protected from multinational wage slavery, or just out and out slavery. Its simple, add tariffs, untill full employment, than stop all entitlements, a very simple solution.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater "The US has the ability to provide jobs for all her citizens" This sounds like something straight out of the communist manifesto. Not the US Constitution. It is not the governments responsibility to "provide jobs". Tariffs hurt the consumers of these cheaper goods. The founders were fully aware that when goods don't cross borders, armies will. Stop citing nonsense. If you have ever read ANYTHING Madison or Jefferson had wrote, you would know you're dead wrong.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Goods should cross borders, but you are throughly hoodwinked if you believe trade will stop armies. That con job is straight out of the one worlders handbook. We crossed Iraq's borders, Afganistan's borders, we would cross the borders of Libia, Iran, Venezuela, and any other nationalist country that stands in the way of globalizaiton. Colonization by multinational corporations is the twenty first centruries new colonialism.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Oh now your'e just babbling about the NWO, Alex Jones crap, imperialism, and corporate warfare war for oil nonsense. I thought maybe you could hold a rational discussion, but I see we are just going down this path. You are saying that the world will have wars regardless of trade. Yes, thanks for stating the obvious. The question is, what nation would want to wage war on a nation they trade with that makes everyone better off? We didn't trade with the countries you named.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun The simple answer is those countries that hate us and because of the free trade, globalization policies of our state department. My discussion is rational, you are in the abstract world of globalization by Wall Street.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater /watch?v=TCc19xxqr_I&playnext=1&list=PLD22E564F54401EB5
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun It is governments responsability to provide jobs for the citizens of a country. That is not communist ideology, the founders provided the tariffs system of protectionism to maintain domestic industry. Democracy by wall street is a new concept, colonialism by multinationals is a neo colonialism ideal. Please do not mix up the ideology of a government attempting to produce jobs for its citizens and communism. The enviroment you so admire, China ; is communism, not the US.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater You are a historical and economic illiterate sir. It is not the Federal Governments job to provide jobs. You are pulling shit out of your ass and you do not know what the role of government is. That most certainly is communist ideology. Where does it say that the president is responsible for employment? Nowhere. You're not gonna win this one Chuck, you are dead wrong. Once again, we live in a Republic not a Democracy. Tariffs on imports WERE the only way to fund gov't.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun You are a historical and economic brainwashed child who has sit in the classroom while mom and dad paid the bills. Have you ever provided for yourself. It is the role of government to provide jobs for the citizens of the country they govern. NOT for the the citizens of another country. It seems you have the roles of government confused with the interest of multinational corporations, listen close: it is in the interest of multinationals to use the U.S as a market and invest in Asia.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater "It is the role of government to provide jobs for the citizens of the country they govern" Wow, that is an astonishing statement. You better get that out ASAP to all the media organizations worldwide! You will be rich! Tell me where the government gets this power sir, simple question. Do you vote? Well do us all a favor, don't!
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Until you understand the concept that manipulative currency is irrelevant and how our money is worth more through dollar inflation every time it leaves our shores, then you can't actively participate in this discussion. The best thing they can do is rip up our currency. But they are not going to do that, they are going to spend it. Either way we benefit. Stop looking at the 5 million jobs lost, try looking at the 19 million gained as a result of NAFTA alone, which isn't free
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun SCUSE ME did you say 19 million jobs were gained as a result of NAFTA. Wow even the stat minipulating DOL does not even make that claim.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater That's right. Why don't you open your eyes. It is a famous study originated by Dartmouth and was accepted by hundreds of other organizations, which all came to the same conclusions. Liberal ideology is very simple to comprehend. It's easy to go to the factory site and cover the losers, they're all in one place. It's harder to report on the winners. Companies that sent jobs abroad, hired twice as many workers at home in more productive, higher skilled, higher paying jobs.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun I will bet that piece of research was paid for by multinationals, I am reminded of those obsurd studies all the time. At one time I would take the time to reserarch the origin of them, always, and I do mean always they were sponsered by multinationals and the outcome was pre determined. Ohio lost 400,000 jobs due to oursourcing, that is the information give by John Kasick our sitting govenor, who is a ex Liberman Bros. free trader. so what happend to those twice as many workers.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater I wouldn't expect much coming from someone who thinks the federal government has the authority to create jobs. You could try to provide counter arguments but liberals are scared of facts. When providing alternative solutions you are fucked. "I will bet that piece of research was paid for by multinationals" You are wasting my time, go away now. Also try to get some help for that paranoid schizophrenia you have Fucking fool. Keep playing the left and right game
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun It must be really difficult to have you butt kicked by a protectionist. Donald Trump as stated that he will tax China 50% I will work dilligently to elect him. The national debt will be paid in a few years, the trade deficit will leave, ameica will start producing again. Welfare will disappear, SS will be fully funded. The 1% who are gaining 80% of the wealth will actually have to pay taxes.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Donald trump is a neo conservative. He is the very capitalist that you claim to hate so much because of "worker exploitation". If you think he is going to bring jobs back the the states you're living in a dreamland. You said: "The national debt will be paid in a few years, the trade deficit will leave" Please do not talk to me anymore. You still don't get the difference. Oh boy....
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun When did I claim to hate capitalist? Your a little dingy and choose to read your own fantisies into my posts. I am a capitaist, but I am protectionist, not a laissez-faire capitalist. You really don't have the mind to destinguish the difference. Trump promised a 50% tariff on Chinese products, that is a step in the right direction. Actually I do enjoy talking to you, I really don't get much opportunity to talk to anyone as ignorant as you are that often. Please keep up the amusement.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater You said: "Yes Lou Dobbs is a great american and a patriot, which you would no nothing about."
Did you miss the part where he admitted on live TV that he hasn't understood the difference between the trade deficit and our national debt his entire life? And how he wrote a book on that very subject HAHAHAHAHA. Career ender!!
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater "ameica will start producing again. Welfare will disappear, SS will be fully funded. The 1% who are gaining 80% of the wealth will actually have to pay taxes." Oh boy, you just don't learn do you. You are still in the Obama change hope yes we can mindset. I am sure that Donald Trump is going to raise taxes on the wealthy LMFAO!! You really need to grow up. SS and Medicare are -113 TRILLION. It is impossible to pay back. You need to go to school instead of YOUTUBE
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun If 113 trillion is impossible to pay back, than we should default on the debt at once. End Wall Streets reign on the economy and give american workers a fighting chance, by protectionist policies, that the founders intended. Here the slogan we could use " IF YOU MAKE IT IN CHINA SELL IT IN CHINA " . If those sweet multinationals want to build state of the art manufacturing facilities in china, than sell the products to the Chinese, do not destroy the US economy by cheap Asian labor.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater Yea, let's default on our debt so our currency is worthless....
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun I believe your problem is that you have been to school.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater If people are willing to voluntarily? select a good or service at a price that they feel is reasonable and fits their budget, which outstrips the competitors prices (FORCING ME TO BE EFFICIENT IN ORDER TO AFFORD THE PRICES), who the fuck are you to tell someone they can't buy from me or I can't do
business with them? It is not your money OR YOUR GOODS. Morons like you feel that you have the right to things simply for existing. YOU ECONOMIC ILLITERATE BRAIN DEAD MORONIC LIBERAL
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Well simply put ; it is governments resonsability to controll the overall economy, and not allow a few slave holders to produce cheap goods in the slave holding hemisphere and export to another hemisphere to sell, thus destroying the economy of their country. If you want to sell your products in the US economy, than you cannot employ slaves, to produce the products. Actually you can use slaves if they concent, but you must pay a tax to offest your slave labor, and lack of regulation
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater It is not governments responsibility to control the economy. Where do they get this authority from? Slaves work without pay involuntarily. You do not understand the difference. The economies in the countries that you call "slave labor" are increasing their own standards of living. Yes, Americans are choosing to buy goods from overseas, if they didn't, the goods wouldn't come to our shores. I am glad you think Trump gives a shit about you, but he doesn't.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Your concept of voluntary is, eliminate choice by simply destroying domestic production, and than telling folks that they buy imports by choice. Please attempt to be at least, moderatel honest. Americans are not choosing to buy thirdword goods, they do not have american made choices. Listen unemployed american cannot buy goods at any cost, that is common sense, does it escape you? Labor intrensic industries that employ people does not exist in the US.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Eliminate choice? You have it backwards my friend. By blocking trade you are effectively eliminating choice. You protectionists are constantly ass backwards. Basically saying that 'individual workers in my trade union shouldn't be sacrificed for the good of society, THEREFORE individuals should be sacrificed for the benefit of my trade union.' What a fundamentally flawed argument! The US is the largest manufacturer in the world anyway you are just dead wrong.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Tariffs do not block trade, tariffs simple taxes a foreign business for selling their products in our markets. That is a far superior method of taxation than taxing labor. Foreign businesses that chooses to earn their wealth off the backs of the peasant populations are forced to support the governments of the countries thay sell in. Tariffs also support domestic labor, who is actually the heart of a country, not multinationa corporations.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Tariffs increase the prices here in America. That is the whole point. To create an incentive to buy American made products by raising the prices of imports. WE are being taxed for importing the goods when we buy them, not taxing China! We are part of the WTO and we are limited to what kinds of tariffs we can implement. If we want to keep jobs here we should open up foreign markets to sell our goods.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun If China wants to continue selling in our economy they will obsorb the cost of the tariff. If not americans will quit buying their products. Ameicans will invest in their own country instead of Asia. Domestic industries will put folks back to work, they will become taxpayers again, instead of looking to government for support, they will have jobs. It is ridiculous for you to believe we are going to become an export nation, multinationals can hire 47 chinese to one american.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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AroundSun 9 months ago
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AroundSun 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater China will not absorb the cost at all. We will be taxed here in the states when a merchant has to pay for the imported goods. Passing it on to the customer and employees just like any tax in any industry. Asians are investing in OUR country. It is the other way around. They buy our bonds and give us cheap goods. You have to understand that this isn't the 1950's anymore and there is a global economy out there.
AroundSun 9 months ago
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AroundSun 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater "It is ridiculous for you to believe we are going to become an export nation" Uhm, we are the leading manufacturer of goods and services in the world. I don't know how that can be ridiculous. It is ridiculous to think taxing imports would benefit us since most industries within the US rely on imported goods to maintain their companies. 85% of businesses would have to layoff people JUST because of the import tariff. It would be just another unintended consequence by gov't
AroundSun 9 months ago
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AroundSun 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater Watch 4:26 of this video
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater u racist. So a human being, a child of our heavenly father who happens to be born in china is less valuable than one, who by pure chance, was born in america.
MrHamncheez 8 months ago
@MrHamncheez You stupid ignorant moron, I am an American, I am loyal to my own country not China. China did not fight WW1 and WW11 to save the U.S. the men and women who gave their lives in in the World Wars did not fight to defend globalizaion, they gave thier lives to defend america. You ignorant moron the chinese workers are not the recipicents of the wealth generated by globalizaion, the investement class of the world (about 10% ) are the recipicants of the exploitaion of the Chines workers
louiethegreater 8 months ago
@louiethegreater So these chinese workers line up to be exploited? They save for years so they can move out of the country and into the city because they love being exploited? Maybe they are just stupid. They are too dumb to realize that they are being exploited. Or maybe the government rounds them up and force marches them into the cities.
U racist.
MrHamncheez 8 months ago
@MrHamn Those Chinese line up to work for the same reasons americans line up to be exploited; they have to serve the corporation to survive. The Chinese leave the farm because their own Government, and the well connected chinese ( those making the bucks) offered them to multinational corporations as cheap labor. Their farm subsistance, became wage subsistance, because cash economies were created. You must be a really dim witted moron, who just shoots off your big ignorant mouth without thought.
louiethegreater 8 months ago
@louiethegreater so.... their farm wages are better than the "evil corporations" wages? If the farm wages were better, then why would they move away from them? THE CORPORATIONS OFFER A HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING THAN THE NEXT BEST ALTERNATIVE. They make the workers lives better.
Calling someone a moron doesnt help your arugement. Some evidence (which there is none) would better support your argument.
MrHamncheez 8 months ago
@MrHamnchee I call you a moron because you are a functioning moron, another dim witt that calls someone a racist, and believes there will be no retalitation for it. Listen real close, the peasants left the farm because a cash economy was forced on them, you dingbat. They were offered to multinationals as cheap labor by the chinese government and the well connected chinese investors. Listen again!!!!! for the purpose of attracing global investment, multinationals profit went to 3 and 4 hundred %
louiethegreater 8 months ago
@M The american middleclass's wealth has been redistributed to multinational corporations. Fifty percent of american do not even earn enough to reach the threshold to pay federal income taces. American manufacturing that actually employ people are gone. Wall Street does just fine, off the backs of Cheap Asian labor. Find someone to explain globalization to you, and consider you are not one of the well connected investment class. 80% of all new wealth created in U.S went to 1% of the population.
louiethegreater 8 months ago
@MrHamncheez So what does calling someone a racist do?
louiethegreater 8 months ago
@AroundSun If I am wasting your time, I must believe you have much time to waste. It is certain you do not hole down a job, or support a family. You could not remain that ignorant and support a family.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater But the media won't cover that, because the hiring is less dramatic. It happens quietly, gradually, and in a million places not in just one industry. So trade is criticized. I would rather be engineering and designing equipment and consumer electronics than putting them together. Nations that are pulled out of the third world outsource the jobs they were given too. So on an so forth until automation replaces those jobs. Then you will have tech's maintaining the equipment.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@Aro Kids raised by gangbanges are not going to become design engineers, but they can work on the assembly line in the local factory. Your example is just plain nonsense, some pie in the sky exaggeration, probably thought up by a laissez-faire free traider. You should understand this----- workers are not pulled out of third world poverty, the wall street investers only get richer, third world workers stay in poverty. Multinational profite soar to new hights 200% 300% 400% on the backs of labor.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater When you argue facts that even the far left has come to agree with (because they would look downright silly if they ignored them) you make yourself look foolish. Just stop it. It is easy to comprehend liberal market principle but it takes true intelligence to understand how basic functions of a society can be provided through a free market. Watch the you-tube video Stossel Lou Dobbs free trade. You are the Lou Dobbs of the discussion.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Thanks Lou Dobbs is one of my favorite people, along with Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot. IN the next election cycle Don Trump will be.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Can we get you on the record supporting ONE regulation you would be in favor of against free trade? Anything? Any plans? Of course not, you are a Dobbs fan! Oh you like Lou Dobbs? It figures! It all makes sense now! Ok, watch this! /watch?v=TCc19xxqr_I . and fast forward to 7:33. There is your hero in action!
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Did you say "can we get you on record " does that mean there are two of you. Hope not your parents are in a world of hurt if there are two of you. Heres all that needs to be done to bring america out of the deperssed condition she is in. Just add tariffs at the borders, that offset the cost of labor and regulation. Yes Lou Dobbs is a great american and a patriot, which you would no nothing about. You would gladly trade in your ameican citizenship for a global one.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater You can't just throw a 50% tax on imports LOL. Even if you could, he wouldn't do it anyway. Im sure Donald Trump wants to pay higher prices for goods and increase overhead. He is a builder and many of his products come from China. US producers can't compete with the glass manufacturers in other countries. He won't mind the higher real estate prices and the less revenues right? No way, he is a businessmen. He's definately more worried about the well being of you and me.pff
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun I know it would be hard for a globalist to produce some sentiment of patriotism for the US, but Mr. Trump displays a high level of patriotism and appreciation for what the country has done for him. Those concepts would be alien to you, because you are a citizen of the world and claim no loyalty to any country. Trump stated on the Neil Cavito Show that he rejected products made in China, for american made. Don't that just frost you, but spare, me and learn to live with it.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Bla Bla Bla...You don't know patriotism from a hole in the ground. Neil Cavuto doesn't buy Chinese, yes. But he doesn't believe in protectionism. You sir are a retard. Free Markets work, Protectionism fails just like you, simple.
AroundSun 9 months ago
I didn't say anything a about Cavuto not buying Chinese. I said Donald Trump said on the Cavuto interview that he (Trump) bought ameican made products. I realize Cavuto is a global free trader just like you, he was very uncomfortable interviewing Trump, about taxing Chinese products. You could sense he supported tha Wall Street crowd, and especially globalization, a world without nationstates, one ethnicity, one race, only one devision, that would be the super rich and poor. 17th century euro
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@AroundSun Perhaps you could explain why the more the US moves toward free markets, the poorer 90% of her citizens become. Treat me with a good belly laugh, explain to me how ameican labor competes with .57/hr. Chinese labor, or .30/hr Nicaraguain labor, or .15/hr. Bangladeshie labor.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
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@louiethegreater Ugh, you are mind numbing. "Perhaps you could explain why the more the US moves toward free markets, the poorer 90% of her citizens become." We have been moving towards more government since the 1930's, open your eyes. Oh yea, the US is still the breadbasket of the world and produces the most goods and services. So much for "all our jobs went to china".
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Trump is a phony. If you can't see right through him then you are absolutely brain dead. He will probably export more of "your" jobs out of the country while cutting taxes and subsidizing his friends. He is totally paid off. What an idiot thing to say on his 'purchased weekly spot' on FOX. So he expects to be our president with statements like, "China is ripping us off." Yeah...he'll get real far
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Did you say "your jobs"? Don't quite know how to grasp that statement. They are american jobs, needed by ameicans to support their families. Trump has the courage to address tariffs, and tariffs are the only solution to the drain on american jobs, and the salvation of the middleclass. I admire him for that, I wrote and advised him to add extra security.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Besides, he is a builder and will not raise taxes on imports. It is all BS. Grow up. All of his friends are dependent on imports and foreign labor. You are falling for the Obama Vision all over again
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater If you tax companies to death they will just simply leave the United States.
AroundSun 9 months ago
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@AroundSun I know it would be hard for a globalist to produce some sentiment of patriotism for the US, but Mr. Trump displays a high level of patriotism and appreciation for what the country has done for him. Those concepts would be alien to you, because you are a citizen of the world and claim no loyalty to any country. Trump stated on the Neil Cavito Show that he rejected products made in China, for american made. Don't that just frost you, but spare, me and learn to live with it.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Nice job of taking facts cited with sources, and then saying naahhh I dont believe it. People like you don't understand trade deficit. You think it has something to do with debt. And you don't even believe that our debt outstrips the worlds economic output, when you can easily take a quick look at any chart. But no, those are all paid off by MULTINATIONALS. LOL. Even the CBO and the governments data. As well as the debtclock in Manhattan. All are wrong, you you're right
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Hey you are the one who don't like big government, but wait, you do like their statistical information right. You enjoy the spin, designed to convince fools they are not being globalized, and deindustrialized, and their middleclass's wealth is being redistributed to the multinational corporations, who are the new colonialism empires. Globalization is riding on the vehicle of free trade, only hoodwinked fools do not know that.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater You are supporting monopoly power within the US if you are saying we should pay whatever price for goods and services without question. What if it cost your life savings to keep 1 job, and I am the only one in the US who sold TV's. You should all support me in your twisted logic right? Even if the TV's were $40,000 each?! But Japan is selling them for $300 ea. So you must be American and only support me correct? You are fucking braindead.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater It wasn't a big deal because there was no income tax. Southern states had borne heavy costs since tariffs protected northern manufacturing at the expense of Southern imports. The South exported agricultural commodities and imported almost all the goods it consumed, either from abroad or from Northern states. Tariffs drastically raised the cost of goods in the Southern states, while most of the tariff revenue was spent in the North. Its more complicated than you think
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Economic isolationism hurts everyone as a whole. For liberals who appeal to emotions and bleeding hearts, you sure want the very ones you intend to benefit to suffer the most. I am on your side, but you are not.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Heres a test of patriotism:: would you pay $2,000.00 more for a car to keep 5 million more americans employed? If you would not than you are a citizen of the global community and should be denied citizenship to the US. Our economy depends on domestic manufacturing, and we have been stripped of labor intrensic manufacturing.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater You are asking a question of price and not principle. Suppose it cost 200,000 to keep 1 million jobs, then should I buy American cars? Suppose it cost 2 MIL to keep 50,000 jobs in the auto industry. Should I have to pay that? Don't give me this patriotic bullshit. Special interests fight to keep their subsidies to reduce competition, which makes us poorer. We are all already citizens of the global economy. Your computer was made in Asia. You should be denied citizenship
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Your response if illogical, because you cannot answer the question, you throw in a exaggeration to confuse the issue. My queston is simple should americans be willing to pay more for products in order to have full employment of their own countrymen. You obviously are one who would prefure that keeping others unemployed is somehow advantagious to you, or you would prefure the US become third world also. When all is manufactured outside the country our economy will be destroyed.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater "because you cannot answer the question" LOL what question? I have asked you to tell me where the government gets this power you claim it has. I think you are the one avoiding the question my friend.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater The idea that Americans should do something and the idea that Americans should be forced to do something are two totally different questions. Once again you are are only talking about price and not principle. What if the price was 2,000,000 per car to keep certain industries in business? Should Michigan pay higher prices for oranges to maintain expensive equipment? Or should they do what they do best, sell their cars for Florida's surplus of oranges at a cheaper price?
AroundSun 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Trade is a machine that allows florida farmers to turn oranges into cars, and medicines. They can't grow cell phones on their trees in Florida. They grow oranges REALLY WELL. What they can do is take those oranges and trade them for phones, cars from Detroit, or Germany, wherever. It makes themselves richer. If it were the role of government to create jobs we would all be equally poor, digging ditches, but we'd have full employment.
AroundSun 9 months ago
@AroundSun Would 4 billion low wage laborers, from computer whiz kids to ditch diggers, show up as a comparitave advantage for asia. Yes it will and american workers cannot compete with that.
louiethegreater 9 months ago
@louiethegreater Yes, this is good, we are getting rid of the shitty jobs and moving on. Same way our ancestors did during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Our grandparents for the most part had shitty jobs. They were able to earn enough to not only make their lives better, but to make it better for their children. We stand on their shoulders and are proof of how far we have come. Free from high taxes and regulation of course, which has impeded our progress.We also help 3rd world
AroundSun 9 months ago