I dont undrstand how people can say whether or not one's form is correct or not. If you take a look at every lineage and their form you will see that no two are the same. Different lineages train differently to compliment their own style. For example, I am under Sifu Eddie Chong. Our forms dnt look like everyone else's. Does that mean were doing it wrong?
Funny how different this form is interpreted in different wing chun styles.
Ones say, it's a loose set of "correction movements", in case you mess a bit up, or for special circumstances, and therefore should wait until learning them, for not getting bad habits until you master the basics,
Others say, it's the deadly fingerthrusting form, very secret (not allowed to show lower graded students) and introducing new concepts. Kind of "the 3rd form that beats the first two forms".
Fighting and your form is two different things, it depends on your personality
being able to win fights does not mean your form is good it is highly to do with you mentality and the aggression in you, the will to win. You may have superior form but don't have the mental capacity to fight simply because you are not that sort of person, you may be small or your heart is not about harming.
@GetAJobBro so i assume u witnessed ur mom giving birth to you... speaking of "scientific fact", dude, you don't get accurate scientific facts from "videos", it comes from observations of tests and experiments. dude, get a life and pass your elementary science! shame on u, no wonder u dont have a job hobo!
I respect All Wing Chun Styles @ Masters but in a real fight I only trust the called Traditional Wing Chun under William Chueng anyday - becouse it is so logical @ practical @ grounded thus so effective - I know cos i do it.
if i have offended someone with wjhat i have written here then sorry for it , it wwas not my intention , and with writting you or i do not prove anything by the way ther is no need to prove anything when ever and to who ever , if you learn to respect yourself you will respect others and thats the whole thing whats important to me
@GonG108 Again, before telling me about ppl who search the youtube pages for WT fighters, well you should check my youtube posts first, and then yours :) you'll see that this is the the first posts of mine anything about WT. What about yours mate? i don't have the time to tell "teils" or anything. you made me write comments.
@GonG108 oh well, ok you think Emin would have lost, and i don't, but this is nothing to be discussed about. i've met Emin but about KRK and LT, i've only heard a lot from their desciples. Skip it. But "beating up guys for a hobby" there's no words to say. well done! Now consider who talks much again. And search for Wong Shun Leung or Phillipp Bayer quotes. Or, as your excellence, search youtube about Emin, Avcı, KRK, LT, WSL and P. Bayer videos to consider who shows off.
Now i appreciate that you have full of respectfulness and love, as it should be. hope you enjoy your trainings with whoever it will be, improve your skills and the way of thinking. hope you never got to use your skills, but never quit learning. because WC is not for fighting, but stop fighting. Not to harm anybody, but to apreciate the abilities that we have in our body&mind and praise them... Hope you never come up frustration, but fulfill your dreams in any way of your life.
and for the rest not to be miss understood i respect each and every one not because he or she is a grandmaster or sifu or what ever but because he or she is a human beuing and every human being like every other live form deserves respect even a plant or a flower, thats an attitude and i like this attitude. in modern times wing tsun is a martial art which is not so easy to learn because you cannot go out and fight like in the old days , today you will end up in jail if you do so,wish you all well
@GonG108 if you look at my first post to you, you'll see who's the one with respect and after that, i never discredit Boztepe or Avcı. Getting used by a master at your youth doesn't mean any bad, instead it shows that you're his most trusted fighter. i thought that you would understand, again, cuz this was pretty a routine in this tradition. And i've told how clever Emin and Avcı are, you should redefine those words before insulting.
for me the form is important but only step to the whole art , the art itelf i the free style fighting against how many you like dpeneds on your fitness but when i see his big fat belly then i dont know if he is relaay able to fight i fdoubt that a bit but as i said i never saw hm ,wc pl think a good wc man never falls on ground its the biggest bullshit i´ve ever heared , this is the lag of experience and if you see ecperienced figher they ll will tell you that i always goes to the ground
@GonG108 my bro. i've seen that video of Cheung vs Boztepe 11 years ago, early times of my VT career. i know all that stuff. how disrespectful Emin was, and yes, how he jumps of his back and takes him down. And yes, William Cheung may be a cheater, because he tries to earn money from his job, just like Emin and Leung Ting does. But these people are all Masters, and no matter what, you should respect to their past and knowledge. This is the first lesson, Be Respectful my friend..!
@GonG108 WSL has big fat belly because he's around his 50's in this video. He quit Beimo fightings at around the age of 32. In fact, around 25 according to some sources. Before that, he fought nearly 100 Beimo fights (semi-organised, bare-knuckle, illegal challenge fights in Hong Kong) and never lost. This may be a controversial be'cuz there was no written sources. But his legend was all around Hong Kongs fighting society and his known as was 'Gong Sau Wong' (King of Talking Hands).
@GonG108 As you know, all systems have some great instructors, and some great fighters. Being a great instructor doesn't mean that he can also fights in a perfect way. Wong Shun Leung was the best fighter of Wing Chun system, the last one at least (don't know too much about earlier decades). And he was the si-hing of Bruce, he always said and wrote that, "Even though I am (technically) a student of Yip Man, in reality I learned my Kung-fu from you." .........
don t know wong ,never saw him thats why i cant say anythig but wat is alwaysthe same this masters perform their form and think that this is it ,they don t fight the only show how nice and good they´ve learned their form but hat about a street fight against 10 or 20 others is he still abe to beat theml like a master should be able to do ?don t know , in case of william i know that he is not in case of salih i know that he has tested evrything on the street and inventent the a-ground fight techn,
@GonG108 Anyways, i suggest you to search some documents about him, and i'm sure you'll be pretty impressed. But whomever you search about, leave your prejudice first. alright mate?
Ground fighting. Yeah you're right, in the modern fighting techniques, it often goes all the way to the ground. So the fighters like us, needs to learn ground techniques very well indeed. Sifu Avcı knows that and added ground techniques from bjj and some other effective systems. This is clever, and a must to know.
@ah as you said it a must know , as a diciple of sifu salih i am convinced that this is the future of wing tsun , anyway wing tsun is not a dead art it is a living art which means that it will always be progressed by skilled fighters , thats not such an easy thing, simply because it is illegal i think no need to explain further but sifu salih is the chief instructor if the german SEK which means that they have possibilities and they train way harder then in usual shools it´s shown .and possible
@ahbeabi prejudice ? if you think that i prejudice o.k. i always thought lets see him or her and then make your opinion , i had a lot of time to study different artists ( or wt fighters ) and my point of view about ppl like william chung is no prejudice , i saw him and i saw his students and i know the ppl who made an end to the myth of the self proclaimed "king of kung fu ". william used to say in interviews he would fight against everyone any time anywhere , and emin accepted his challenge
@GonG108 first of all, about leaving your prejudice, i was talkin bout WSL, not William C. But if you want to talk about (even it's not a place to talk about these stuff under this video) LT/Kernspecht vs William Cheung money/fame wars. How Emin was used as a pawn in this war. What challenges he accepted, and what he declined or said "there's a misunderstanding". How would look like if Emin would fight against LT or Kernspecht at that time. Well, there are lots of stuff we can talk. If u want.
@ahbeabi see i don t have the need to tak about this and that , usualy such storys or talks are done by ppl who talk a lot but don t find the time to go to training , thats not my thing , sometimes ( and it started with youtube and the presentation of different line.) i meet WC diciples who always try to discredit WT , they are very good in telling wild storys and finding excuses for their GM . anyway not my business , emin did what he did because he waned to do it that way no pawn or what ever
@GonG108 :) alright, first thing first. it's obvious that you have some missing points about traditional wing chun "point-of-views" thats why you can't understand how 24 years old Emin was used as a pawn to challenge William C. And you can't understand such a normal ritual, instead you name it an "offence and disrespectfulness". so there's nothing to tell you about it. i thought you would understand that but now it seems pretty clear.
at this time emin and salih where good friends and had a lot of fights against so called masters and others who wanted to try them or challenge them , today times have changed sifu salih is very bussi with his hostage rescue teams worldwide and emin has his own org . kernspecht is in m eyes a money maker but there is nothing bad in making money only sad that many talented ppl will never get the chance to get such an education they could get if they could pay it (like police or army personel )
@ahbeabihere on youtube i find on mostly every page big philosophers ,i like to do wt and not talk about it i dont give a sh... about who thinks what , to call emin a pawn shows only that you never have seen or met him or know anything about him it is respectless and if we talk about prejudice then take a look into a mirror, thats all i can say to you,&dont underestimate kernspecht or leung ting i would bet that you never have seen ine of them live , if you had you wouldn t talk so respectless
@ahbeabi you are talling about prejudice and tll me to leave such behaviour but tke a look at what you write here, and in case about wong shun , i don t now him or have ever seen him the only thing i have seen is his video here and the fct that he does not look very fit ( he has a fat belly , thats not usual for someone who trains a lot , ppl like salih or emin train about 5 to 8 hours daily and this over 25 years know , just compare their bodys to the body of this maser here , thats it
@ahbeabi this does not mean that i doubt his kills ( wong shun ) or anything else it is just something what impressed me , a grand aster of wng tsun with a fat belly for me not an usual thing but to be frankly i don t care about it it just does not interesst me , and if he is good or not , thats also not my problem and it does not interest me too , i have found what i was looking for a long time ago and thats enough for me , i just don t like ppl who search the youtube pages for WT fighters
these wc fighters are only interested in offending us and they are good in this but i doubt in anything else , thats all . i think we can end pur talk about wing tsun , it is useless and endless , if you are happy with your sifu , great do your thing and be happy , i am happy with my sifu and thats enough , only when i read stupid or respectless writings from ppl who probably have never done mpre then a view chain punches but know everything and talk like superman , this makes me write comments
but to answer or tell you one thing if emin would have fight at that time against kernspecht or gm ting he would have lost , like he lost against salih on the ground , but he is still in my eyes one of the most experienced fighters i know , one of the very little who had no fear to chek his skills in really dangerous situations ( by the way he had to leave germany for this he got live threats from the mafia afte beating up their guys again and again together with salih this was their hobby)
sifu salih sifu emin and their teacher kernspecht used to go out in the weekends and chek what they have learned in real situations after that they had to write about it , this was the way how sifu salih invented the anti ground fight in wing tsun and this was the way to get what they are today , if someone wants to talk about wing tsun or asian philosophy sifu salih aways said go down the street there is a place for such things here you will learn to round someone up and strike him or them
wing tsun is something to do not something to talk about or discuss about , if someone thinks he is good or better o.k. no problem show it , if someone tells the world i am the best wing tsun fighter ever like the clown william chung used to do then he should not wonder when one day someone like emin and salih comes through the window of the gym and challenge him to prove what he claims .on thing i have learned teachers who talk much are bad fighters the good ones dont use to talk that much
i wish you well and may you find good teachers , entertainers you can find every day on tv or in the cinema or somewhere else but someone who does not talk but show you how many times he would have killed you in a quarter of a second thats a different experience and thats why we all who know salih love him and respect him , you will never find him in such discussions , he would say fight or shut up thats it , have a nice time and as i said i wish you well , sorry for my bad english and bye
Everything I've read about this guy is he was known for being undefeated in over 50 bare knuckle no holds barred fights where he welcomed/challened any and all challenges regardless of their "Art"...For all you guys that want to criticize his form...How many bare knuckle no holds barred fights have you been in to test your Kung-Fu? That is if you're even a practicioner. Don't disrepect this Master/Legend. Our society no longer has respect or pays homage to anyone it seems.
@ferglife sifu salih avci had over 600 street fights and invented the wing tsun anti ground fight , emin boztepe was his si hing he had to leave europe because he got death threats from the german mafia , they both used to beat them up very ugly , there are some videos of the avci wt system in my eyes the most efficient system , the german SEK ( swat ) and many other hostage rescue teams are learning from him i don t know a better wt fighter right now
@SirTokesAlot16 Once you have learned them you can do it in whateevr order you like, depending on what you would like to focus on practising at the time. However it is quite important to only learn them in the correct order. Each form builds upon the last to make a complete picture. Dont run before you can walk and all that :)
and as with all wing chun vids the asian nerds come rushing in to start flamewars, gee the asian nerds must be dancing their socks off since the advent of the internet
I love how every little guy who learns some Wing Chun thinks they are the ultimate authority, and know better than masters, who actually fought all the time with it. You know more because you saw a video, or read a book, or tried something with your friends and you think you know better. Jesus Christ.
@wellscraft funny thing. Anyways, everything that came from Leung Ting and his students is bullshit. But with all this propaganda, it took me years to find out the truth. I wish everyone finds it one day.
@farbeyondfear but if you take a look at leung tings efficiency and his movements they look far more skilled then this karate kata like moves of this one here , next look at leung tings deciples they are the best skilled wt fighters world wide the rest is good with the mouth but is not able to fight like william chung the self proclaimed master of kung fu we all know how he got rounded up by a secoond techn. degree of the ting wt system , take your time and see sifu salih avci and think again
how can you mention william big mouth and noting knower chung with emin who beat the hell out of him togehter with avci, this was the iggest joke ever,emin told "grandmaster of all times " lol " i´ll count from ten to zero then i´ll fight you , william the big mouth chng lost in a view seconds , against a emin who had a view yers of wing tsun experience i saw the video several time williiam is the biggest cheater in this martial art ive ever seen, william is not even able to fight an old woman
It is sad to see how these excellent videos always provoke ye goode olde "My kung fu is better than yours" responses. The comments are never very constructive. I train under a teacher of the WSL lineage and I would never presume to diss another style. I happen to believe that this style works for me.
@JakeIncarnate If that was directed at me im not having a go at WSL lineage. In fact i respect it greatly! Master Wong was an excellent fighter and had some fantastic ideas for WC. But that said, the huen sau movement is simply incorrect.....
@ozzie1246 Whoa, I had to look my comment up since it is over a year ago. My comment is no directed at you particularly. I comment on the overall futile discussions that these video's (and martial arts video's in general) seem to provoke. To me, they boil down to one thing: strutting around like a proud peacock and flaunting your (and again not specifically meaning you, Ozzie) style while doing the utmost to diminish others with an other lineage, style or branch of martial arts.
For haters / flamers out there here is an example. The huen sau section. Consider a fight where you are trying to huen an arm out the way, then strike. In the same way a pak sau shouldnt go past your shoulder, a turning huen should not go further than it needs to. He over-turns to almost 90 degrees there. Very poor.
@ozzie1246. You can practice the forms how you want. If you wanna practice sending your huen sau further, you can. sure he was perfectly good at using it in situations.
@kelly980 I totally agree that there is several ways to practise a form. However the movements should never stray from there efficient purposes. There really is no application for huen'ing an entire 90 degree's. It really is just wrong.
If you actually pay attention, the huen sau does NOT move past his body, but he gains added results through pivoting while huen. You should avoid criticising that which you do not understand.
Correct that is huen sau remains in correct structure relative to himself, but the entire movement turns WILDLY too far relative to the opponent.
He is rotating his body a full 90 degrees. The opponent is facing him at the start of the movement. To turn a full 90 degrees with the huen sau movement is completely incorrect.
1. The movement is NOT wild, it's clearly controlled.
2. The rotation is "only as much as is needed" in application. However, the goal is the coordination of the huen with the facing shift. Movements should be completed, and not abbreviated in forms. Nice to see you're clueless.
@synkronyk Lol dude, what are you chatting? One second you say 'only as much as is needed.' And the next sentance you say 'dont abbreviate' them. So your saying movements in the forms are totally different / more exaggerated than in application? If your deserate to have a verbal argument you need to pick a side, not just say contradicting things to try and sound like your right haha.
hmm. Im disappointed in this video. I dont suppose anyone would know when it was recorded? There is a few things in there that really shouldnt be, and some pretty sloppy technique in places.
Forms have a duel purpose: building muscle memory; 2)Finding the most efficient movement of all body parts to accomplish the intended movement. In a fight, use the proper tool (movement, technique, whatever) in each situation. Forms will build the muscle memory and body placement for each individual movement you are attempting to accomplish in each situation.
Criticizing others does not lead to improvement; criticizing the Self does . How about we try constructive conversations on movements?
nice! or the dictionary vs. writing a b ook... you can memorize lots of words, but without a certain skill they are useless :) Of the myriad forms and katas I have encountered.. I must say that wing chun appears to have very direct and immediately useful stuff.. seems a very logical way to approach kung fu.. since I first encountered it in practice i often find its the first recommendation i give to people pursuing kung fu study
no its not, the goal of writing essays in class is to provide the individual with the skills to communicate their ideas in a written form regardless of the topic.
Wong Shun Leung was one of the greatest Wing Chun practitioners, and was one of the only formal instructors that Yip Man gave permission to instruct. My sifu has had the privilege of training and swapping ideas with this great practitioner. The point of practicing these forms is to build the strikes, blocks, and stances used in the form, not to use the form itself to fight. It's like asking, why do we write essays so much in class, all I need is to know how to communicate and read.
Did you ever train in any martial art?Anyway with no offense you have a very typical way of thought.things that you maybe sure you see may be are not what they seem to you.Remember that.Aform(kata in japanese,poomsae or tul in korean or taolu in chinese)never designed to prove something but to improve things like footwork.kinesiology ,technique,breath,coordination etc to the person that practices it.Thanks.
Wing Chun works on the basis of teaching you how to utilize mechanical advantages. All of these techniques are meant to show you how you can take advantage of these mechanical advantages.
If you learn the moves under a teacher you will realize how practical they are.
it merely introduces the techniques and how the body moves together.
It is not a linked sequence of moves, but merely moves bundled together in a way which seems to flow.
The forms are the "correct" technical manner in which to perform the moves, only when an opponent is involved should the techniques be deviated to incapacitate.
There's no need to think so much about why he's doing these movements at a "slow" speed. This is a .:demonstration:.; the main goal is to let you see what he's doing.
As for the purpose of practicing slowly, I won't go into all that internal energy stuff, because it's a really big can of worms, but what is obvious is that you can examine the motion clearly at every point of its travel if you do it slowly, to make sure you're doing it right.
there is a lot more going on here then just the movements. Esshung no disrespect taken. The forms are visualy quite boring. But the mind mechanics going on are amazing and very complicated. This guy was a master. Both of the system and in fighting.
the rest of you can take your Leung Tings and Williams Cheungs and stick it where the sun don't shine.
nothing wrong with william cheung, that man can fight, you go fuck yourself , and dont go insulting william cheung or ill stick your head up your arse.
dont be a prick, resistance training does improve power in your techniques provided you trasin correctly, are you one of those arse holes that thinks weight training is only for big muscles, some of the greatest martial artist on the planet use weights to improve themselves, not only does resistance/ weight training increase power in your moves, it strengthens your joints, you will notice the difference whilst stricking the wal/punchbag, the better structure you have the more power you will have
i agree, lets say you have 2 guys equally skilled in any given martial arts, one of them does resistance training i.e uses the iron kung fu rings twice a week whilst practicing forms kata, the strength and speed gains will be much greater than the other guys, he will also have better structure, noticeable results guaranteed.
singha.. training in weights makes you stronger no doubt about that.
BUT
in wing chun there are specific training methods to strengthen your body, bones & structure for specific "wing chun" muscles used 4 fighting.
adding weights is Not one of them. we use chi gung mainly.. if you had some training. pole & knives as well with again specific exercises to train specific muscles.
even partner exercises to work on right muscles & floor exercises without using any weights like rings or irons.
This is something that Wing Chun guys dismiss without really understanding. Power training has progressed soo much over the last 20 years. Plyometrics for example will get any athlete faster, stronger and more explosive without loosing flexibility.
MaBu888: that's abolutely correct. What might seem like a different discipline to some is tai ch'i, which is famous for being done slowly, and people say "ah, it's just new-age meditation" but no, sped up, it's a martial art. So too with wing chun. Done slowly it has great meditative and ch'i bestowing effects.
To Esshung: You've completely missed the point. Sure it might not be visually stimulating, but wing chun is to be experienced, rather than just seen.
now that would be boring, i dont see the point doing them slowly, what would it improve? maybe doing them with wrist weights would improve your blocking striking power.
I agree this is boring from some perspective. But the slowness is there for a reason, similar to taichi. The reason for the slowness is quite simple - what is called internal power, and of course technique will become tons better, and power generation will become immense.
you obviously dont want to improve or listen, you just want to make comments on youtube, dont knock it till youve tried it, its very easy to call someone a fool on youtube isnt it , says alot about your deep knowledge of wing chun, tough guy.
yeah my deep knowledge. lol. from the guy who saier stthat doing forms fast and with weights on your wrist will give you better striking power. i referenced fool as in your the clown, comedy etc.
point taken, didnt think of it that way, a tai chi guy once told me that although they practice slowly, he was once attacked and the same movements came out fast and powerfull. but do also try the same movement with weights, at a slow pace, it does have its benefits, if it doesnt work for you, dont do it. THANKS MADE ME THINK.
singhakabuttar By doing the forms slowly without weights you increase twitch (fast reflex) muscle fibers which increase speed rather than increasing muscle mass by using weights which increases power but slows you down Also by using weights on your wrists your working your biceps to hold them up when really you need to increase your triceps to punch hard.
@ferglife
Samarthonda 3 weeks ago
I dont undrstand how people can say whether or not one's form is correct or not. If you take a look at every lineage and their form you will see that no two are the same. Different lineages train differently to compliment their own style. For example, I am under Sifu Eddie Chong. Our forms dnt look like everyone else's. Does that mean were doing it wrong?
wingchunbakmei 1 month ago
This dude was no joke.
fern072 2 months ago
Funny how different this form is interpreted in different wing chun styles.
Ones say, it's a loose set of "correction movements", in case you mess a bit up, or for special circumstances, and therefore should wait until learning them, for not getting bad habits until you master the basics,
Others say, it's the deadly fingerthrusting form, very secret (not allowed to show lower graded students) and introducing new concepts. Kind of "the 3rd form that beats the first two forms".
jedzvt 3 months ago
Fighting and your form is two different things, it depends on your personality
being able to win fights does not mean your form is good it is highly to do with you mentality and the aggression in you, the will to win. You may have superior form but don't have the mental capacity to fight simply because you are not that sort of person, you may be small or your heart is not about harming.
pakgarryinabag 4 months ago
@GetAJobBro so i assume u witnessed ur mom giving birth to you... speaking of "scientific fact", dude, you don't get accurate scientific facts from "videos", it comes from observations of tests and experiments. dude, get a life and pass your elementary science! shame on u, no wonder u dont have a job hobo!
TheDiseaseDevil 5 months ago
Ip Man's first student.
RangRing68 6 months ago
I respect All Wing Chun Styles @ Masters but in a real fight I only trust the called Traditional Wing Chun under William Chueng anyday - becouse it is so logical @ practical @ grounded thus so effective - I know cos i do it.
25royroy 6 months ago
WSL = Wing Chun King
Shaolinkungfucat 6 months ago
proper wing chun school go to wingchunmartialarts.co.uk
N4K5 8 months ago
che cagata!
rockyWT85 8 months ago
@rockyWT85 all'ignoranza non c'è mai fine.
Chepallestiuser 7 months ago
omg....bannaman lost it bad
centretotheleft 9 months ago
so fat
hismanhim 10 months ago
@hismanhim he's not the youngest -.-' and he's a Master so he can be a bit fat :D
MRtHeLUcHs 9 months ago
Is there anywhere you can purchase this on dvd.
pudaokil 11 months ago
if i have offended someone with wjhat i have written here then sorry for it , it wwas not my intention , and with writting you or i do not prove anything by the way ther is no need to prove anything when ever and to who ever , if you learn to respect yourself you will respect others and thats the whole thing whats important to me
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 Again, before telling me about ppl who search the youtube pages for WT fighters, well you should check my youtube posts first, and then yours :) you'll see that this is the the first posts of mine anything about WT. What about yours mate? i don't have the time to tell "teils" or anything. you made me write comments.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@GonG108 oh well, ok you think Emin would have lost, and i don't, but this is nothing to be discussed about. i've met Emin but about KRK and LT, i've only heard a lot from their desciples. Skip it. But "beating up guys for a hobby" there's no words to say. well done! Now consider who talks much again. And search for Wong Shun Leung or Phillipp Bayer quotes. Or, as your excellence, search youtube about Emin, Avcı, KRK, LT, WSL and P. Bayer videos to consider who shows off.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
Now i appreciate that you have full of respectfulness and love, as it should be. hope you enjoy your trainings with whoever it will be, improve your skills and the way of thinking. hope you never got to use your skills, but never quit learning. because WC is not for fighting, but stop fighting. Not to harm anybody, but to apreciate the abilities that we have in our body&mind and praise them... Hope you never come up frustration, but fulfill your dreams in any way of your life.
Peace my friend.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@ahbeabi thank you and peace for you too
GonG108 1 year ago
and for the rest not to be miss understood i respect each and every one not because he or she is a grandmaster or sifu or what ever but because he or she is a human beuing and every human being like every other live form deserves respect even a plant or a flower, thats an attitude and i like this attitude. in modern times wing tsun is a martial art which is not so easy to learn because you cannot go out and fight like in the old days , today you will end up in jail if you do so,wish you all well
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 if you look at my first post to you, you'll see who's the one with respect and after that, i never discredit Boztepe or Avcı. Getting used by a master at your youth doesn't mean any bad, instead it shows that you're his most trusted fighter. i thought that you would understand, again, cuz this was pretty a routine in this tradition. And i've told how clever Emin and Avcı are, you should redefine those words before insulting.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
for me the form is important but only step to the whole art , the art itelf i the free style fighting against how many you like dpeneds on your fitness but when i see his big fat belly then i dont know if he is relaay able to fight i fdoubt that a bit but as i said i never saw hm ,wc pl think a good wc man never falls on ground its the biggest bullshit i´ve ever heared , this is the lag of experience and if you see ecperienced figher they ll will tell you that i always goes to the ground
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 my bro. i've seen that video of Cheung vs Boztepe 11 years ago, early times of my VT career. i know all that stuff. how disrespectful Emin was, and yes, how he jumps of his back and takes him down. And yes, William Cheung may be a cheater, because he tries to earn money from his job, just like Emin and Leung Ting does. But these people are all Masters, and no matter what, you should respect to their past and knowledge. This is the first lesson, Be Respectful my friend..!
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@GonG108 WSL has big fat belly because he's around his 50's in this video. He quit Beimo fightings at around the age of 32. In fact, around 25 according to some sources. Before that, he fought nearly 100 Beimo fights (semi-organised, bare-knuckle, illegal challenge fights in Hong Kong) and never lost. This may be a controversial be'cuz there was no written sources. But his legend was all around Hong Kongs fighting society and his known as was 'Gong Sau Wong' (King of Talking Hands).
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@GonG108 As you know, all systems have some great instructors, and some great fighters. Being a great instructor doesn't mean that he can also fights in a perfect way. Wong Shun Leung was the best fighter of Wing Chun system, the last one at least (don't know too much about earlier decades). And he was the si-hing of Bruce, he always said and wrote that, "Even though I am (technically) a student of Yip Man, in reality I learned my Kung-fu from you." .........
ahbeabi 1 year ago
don t know wong ,never saw him thats why i cant say anythig but wat is alwaysthe same this masters perform their form and think that this is it ,they don t fight the only show how nice and good they´ve learned their form but hat about a street fight against 10 or 20 others is he still abe to beat theml like a master should be able to do ?don t know , in case of william i know that he is not in case of salih i know that he has tested evrything on the street and inventent the a-ground fight techn,
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 Anyways, i suggest you to search some documents about him, and i'm sure you'll be pretty impressed. But whomever you search about, leave your prejudice first. alright mate?
Ground fighting. Yeah you're right, in the modern fighting techniques, it often goes all the way to the ground. So the fighters like us, needs to learn ground techniques very well indeed. Sifu Avcı knows that and added ground techniques from bjj and some other effective systems. This is clever, and a must to know.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@ah as you said it a must know , as a diciple of sifu salih i am convinced that this is the future of wing tsun , anyway wing tsun is not a dead art it is a living art which means that it will always be progressed by skilled fighters , thats not such an easy thing, simply because it is illegal i think no need to explain further but sifu salih is the chief instructor if the german SEK which means that they have possibilities and they train way harder then in usual shools it´s shown .and possible
GonG108 1 year ago
@ahbeabi prejudice ? if you think that i prejudice o.k. i always thought lets see him or her and then make your opinion , i had a lot of time to study different artists ( or wt fighters ) and my point of view about ppl like william chung is no prejudice , i saw him and i saw his students and i know the ppl who made an end to the myth of the self proclaimed "king of kung fu ". william used to say in interviews he would fight against everyone any time anywhere , and emin accepted his challenge
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 first of all, about leaving your prejudice, i was talkin bout WSL, not William C. But if you want to talk about (even it's not a place to talk about these stuff under this video) LT/Kernspecht vs William Cheung money/fame wars. How Emin was used as a pawn in this war. What challenges he accepted, and what he declined or said "there's a misunderstanding". How would look like if Emin would fight against LT or Kernspecht at that time. Well, there are lots of stuff we can talk. If u want.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
@ahbeabi see i don t have the need to tak about this and that , usualy such storys or talks are done by ppl who talk a lot but don t find the time to go to training , thats not my thing , sometimes ( and it started with youtube and the presentation of different line.) i meet WC diciples who always try to discredit WT , they are very good in telling wild storys and finding excuses for their GM . anyway not my business , emin did what he did because he waned to do it that way no pawn or what ever
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 :) alright, first thing first. it's obvious that you have some missing points about traditional wing chun "point-of-views" thats why you can't understand how 24 years old Emin was used as a pawn to challenge William C. And you can't understand such a normal ritual, instead you name it an "offence and disrespectfulness". so there's nothing to tell you about it. i thought you would understand that but now it seems pretty clear.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
at this time emin and salih where good friends and had a lot of fights against so called masters and others who wanted to try them or challenge them , today times have changed sifu salih is very bussi with his hostage rescue teams worldwide and emin has his own org . kernspecht is in m eyes a money maker but there is nothing bad in making money only sad that many talented ppl will never get the chance to get such an education they could get if they could pay it (like police or army personel )
GonG108 1 year ago
@ahbeabihere on youtube i find on mostly every page big philosophers ,i like to do wt and not talk about it i dont give a sh... about who thinks what , to call emin a pawn shows only that you never have seen or met him or know anything about him it is respectless and if we talk about prejudice then take a look into a mirror, thats all i can say to you,&dont underestimate kernspecht or leung ting i would bet that you never have seen ine of them live , if you had you wouldn t talk so respectless
GonG108 1 year ago
@ahbeabi you are talling about prejudice and tll me to leave such behaviour but tke a look at what you write here, and in case about wong shun , i don t now him or have ever seen him the only thing i have seen is his video here and the fct that he does not look very fit ( he has a fat belly , thats not usual for someone who trains a lot , ppl like salih or emin train about 5 to 8 hours daily and this over 25 years know , just compare their bodys to the body of this maser here , thats it
GonG108 1 year ago
@ahbeabi this does not mean that i doubt his kills ( wong shun ) or anything else it is just something what impressed me , a grand aster of wng tsun with a fat belly for me not an usual thing but to be frankly i don t care about it it just does not interesst me , and if he is good or not , thats also not my problem and it does not interest me too , i have found what i was looking for a long time ago and thats enough for me , i just don t like ppl who search the youtube pages for WT fighters
GonG108 1 year ago
these wc fighters are only interested in offending us and they are good in this but i doubt in anything else , thats all . i think we can end pur talk about wing tsun , it is useless and endless , if you are happy with your sifu , great do your thing and be happy , i am happy with my sifu and thats enough , only when i read stupid or respectless writings from ppl who probably have never done mpre then a view chain punches but know everything and talk like superman , this makes me write comments
GonG108 1 year ago
but to answer or tell you one thing if emin would have fight at that time against kernspecht or gm ting he would have lost , like he lost against salih on the ground , but he is still in my eyes one of the most experienced fighters i know , one of the very little who had no fear to chek his skills in really dangerous situations ( by the way he had to leave germany for this he got live threats from the mafia afte beating up their guys again and again together with salih this was their hobby)
GonG108 1 year ago
sifu salih sifu emin and their teacher kernspecht used to go out in the weekends and chek what they have learned in real situations after that they had to write about it , this was the way how sifu salih invented the anti ground fight in wing tsun and this was the way to get what they are today , if someone wants to talk about wing tsun or asian philosophy sifu salih aways said go down the street there is a place for such things here you will learn to round someone up and strike him or them
GonG108 1 year ago
wing tsun is something to do not something to talk about or discuss about , if someone thinks he is good or better o.k. no problem show it , if someone tells the world i am the best wing tsun fighter ever like the clown william chung used to do then he should not wonder when one day someone like emin and salih comes through the window of the gym and challenge him to prove what he claims .on thing i have learned teachers who talk much are bad fighters the good ones dont use to talk that much
GonG108 1 year ago
i wish you well and may you find good teachers , entertainers you can find every day on tv or in the cinema or somewhere else but someone who does not talk but show you how many times he would have killed you in a quarter of a second thats a different experience and thats why we all who know salih love him and respect him , you will never find him in such discussions , he would say fight or shut up thats it , have a nice time and as i said i wish you well , sorry for my bad english and bye
GonG108 1 year ago
Everything I've read about this guy is he was known for being undefeated in over 50 bare knuckle no holds barred fights where he welcomed/challened any and all challenges regardless of their "Art"...For all you guys that want to criticize his form...How many bare knuckle no holds barred fights have you been in to test your Kung-Fu? That is if you're even a practicioner. Don't disrepect this Master/Legend. Our society no longer has respect or pays homage to anyone it seems.
ferglife 1 year ago 13
@ferglife bravo
kwansao 1 year ago
@ferglife sifu salih avci had over 600 street fights and invented the wing tsun anti ground fight , emin boztepe was his si hing he had to leave europe because he got death threats from the german mafia , they both used to beat them up very ugly , there are some videos of the avci wt system in my eyes the most efficient system , the german SEK ( swat ) and many other hostage rescue teams are learning from him i don t know a better wt fighter right now
GonG108 1 year ago
Thanks a lot for your vid, great upload!
jangerritstrala 1 year ago
does any one know about if when u learn all the forms if u r suposed to practice them from form 1 to 3 in succession
?
SirTokesAlot16 1 year ago
@SirTokesAlot16
Wouldn't do any harm.
I think it's more important that you learn them 1-3 in that order as they get harder as you go along and teach you more advanced things.
LondonGabbaSquat 1 year ago
@SirTokesAlot16 Once you have learned them you can do it in whateevr order you like, depending on what you would like to focus on practising at the time. However it is quite important to only learn them in the correct order. Each form builds upon the last to make a complete picture. Dont run before you can walk and all that :)
ozzie1246 9 months ago
and as with all wing chun vids the asian nerds come rushing in to start flamewars, gee the asian nerds must be dancing their socks off since the advent of the internet
goestyou 1 year ago
I love how every little guy who learns some Wing Chun thinks they are the ultimate authority, and know better than masters, who actually fought all the time with it. You know more because you saw a video, or read a book, or tried something with your friends and you think you know better. Jesus Christ.
wellscraft 1 year ago 3
@wellscraft funny thing. Anyways, everything that came from Leung Ting and his students is bullshit. But with all this propaganda, it took me years to find out the truth. I wish everyone finds it one day.
farbeyondfear 1 year ago
@farbeyondfear but if you take a look at leung tings efficiency and his movements they look far more skilled then this karate kata like moves of this one here , next look at leung tings deciples they are the best skilled wt fighters world wide the rest is good with the mouth but is not able to fight like william chung the self proclaimed master of kung fu we all know how he got rounded up by a secoond techn. degree of the ting wt system , take your time and see sifu salih avci and think again
GonG108 1 year ago
@GonG108 WSL was the last Master of the system, LT is a nice comedian and entrepreneur.
Philip Bayer is the best living man on Ving Tsun right now.
Respect to all Sifus, LT, William Cheung, Emin Boztepe, Salih Avcı etc.
But this is the truth.
ahbeabi 1 year ago
how can you mention william big mouth and noting knower chung with emin who beat the hell out of him togehter with avci, this was the iggest joke ever,emin told "grandmaster of all times " lol " i´ll count from ten to zero then i´ll fight you , william the big mouth chng lost in a view seconds , against a emin who had a view yers of wing tsun experience i saw the video several time williiam is the biggest cheater in this martial art ive ever seen, william is not even able to fight an old woman
GonG108 1 year ago
It is sad to see how these excellent videos always provoke ye goode olde "My kung fu is better than yours" responses. The comments are never very constructive. I train under a teacher of the WSL lineage and I would never presume to diss another style. I happen to believe that this style works for me.
JakeIncarnate 1 year ago 2
@JakeIncarnate If that was directed at me im not having a go at WSL lineage. In fact i respect it greatly! Master Wong was an excellent fighter and had some fantastic ideas for WC. But that said, the huen sau movement is simply incorrect.....
ozzie1246 9 months ago
@ozzie1246 Whoa, I had to look my comment up since it is over a year ago. My comment is no directed at you particularly. I comment on the overall futile discussions that these video's (and martial arts video's in general) seem to provoke. To me, they boil down to one thing: strutting around like a proud peacock and flaunting your (and again not specifically meaning you, Ozzie) style while doing the utmost to diminish others with an other lineage, style or branch of martial arts.
JakeIncarnate 9 months ago
For haters / flamers out there here is an example. The huen sau section. Consider a fight where you are trying to huen an arm out the way, then strike. In the same way a pak sau shouldnt go past your shoulder, a turning huen should not go further than it needs to. He over-turns to almost 90 degrees there. Very poor.
ozzie1246 1 year ago
@ozzie1246. You can practice the forms how you want. If you wanna practice sending your huen sau further, you can. sure he was perfectly good at using it in situations.
kelly980 1 year ago
@kelly980 I totally agree that there is several ways to practise a form. However the movements should never stray from there efficient purposes. There really is no application for huen'ing an entire 90 degree's. It really is just wrong.
ozzie1246 9 months ago
@ozzie1246 retard.
If you actually pay attention, the huen sau does NOT move past his body, but he gains added results through pivoting while huen. You should avoid criticising that which you do not understand.
synkronyk 1 year ago
@synkronyk back at you buddy.
Correct that is huen sau remains in correct structure relative to himself, but the entire movement turns WILDLY too far relative to the opponent.
He is rotating his body a full 90 degrees. The opponent is facing him at the start of the movement. To turn a full 90 degrees with the huen sau movement is completely incorrect.
ozzie1246 1 year ago
@ozzie1246 Moron.
1. The movement is NOT wild, it's clearly controlled.
2. The rotation is "only as much as is needed" in application. However, the goal is the coordination of the huen with the facing shift. Movements should be completed, and not abbreviated in forms. Nice to see you're clueless.
synkronyk 1 year ago
@synkronyk Lol dude, what are you chatting? One second you say 'only as much as is needed.' And the next sentance you say 'dont abbreviate' them. So your saying movements in the forms are totally different / more exaggerated than in application? If your deserate to have a verbal argument you need to pick a side, not just say contradicting things to try and sound like your right haha.
ozzie1246 9 months ago
hmm. Im disappointed in this video. I dont suppose anyone would know when it was recorded? There is a few things in there that really shouldnt be, and some pretty sloppy technique in places.
ozzie1246 1 year ago
This is one of the best biu jee performances Ive ever seen!
samuski36 2 years ago 4
he was the king!!!!!
tatar1973 2 years ago 2
Forms have a duel purpose: building muscle memory; 2)Finding the most efficient movement of all body parts to accomplish the intended movement. In a fight, use the proper tool (movement, technique, whatever) in each situation. Forms will build the muscle memory and body placement for each individual movement you are attempting to accomplish in each situation.
Criticizing others does not lead to improvement; criticizing the Self does . How about we try constructive conversations on movements?
MugenRoshi8 2 years ago 40
But practicing writing essays in class is to build the skill for those who enjoy it to eventually be able to write books, and so forth.
lordballz32 2 years ago
nice! or the dictionary vs. writing a b ook... you can memorize lots of words, but without a certain skill they are useless :) Of the myriad forms and katas I have encountered.. I must say that wing chun appears to have very direct and immediately useful stuff.. seems a very logical way to approach kung fu.. since I first encountered it in practice i often find its the first recommendation i give to people pursuing kung fu study
sloppymantis 2 years ago
no its not, the goal of writing essays in class is to provide the individual with the skills to communicate their ideas in a written form regardless of the topic.
synkronyk 2 years ago
Wong Shun Leung was one of the greatest Wing Chun practitioners, and was one of the only formal instructors that Yip Man gave permission to instruct. My sifu has had the privilege of training and swapping ideas with this great practitioner. The point of practicing these forms is to build the strikes, blocks, and stances used in the form, not to use the form itself to fight. It's like asking, why do we write essays so much in class, all I need is to know how to communicate and read.
lordballz32 2 years ago
this is like a dance. i simply do not see how doing a dance like this would help you win a street fight. what does this train you in anyway?
phalluses 2 years ago
Did you ever train in any martial art?Anyway with no offense you have a very typical way of thought.things that you maybe sure you see may be are not what they seem to you.Remember that.Aform(kata in japanese,poomsae or tul in korean or taolu in chinese)never designed to prove something but to improve things like footwork.kinesiology ,technique,breath,coordination etc to the person that practices it.Thanks.
EVEROSFP1 2 years ago
Wing Chun works on the basis of teaching you how to utilize mechanical advantages. All of these techniques are meant to show you how you can take advantage of these mechanical advantages.
If you learn the moves under a teacher you will realize how practical they are.
klymaite 2 years ago
it merely introduces the techniques and how the body moves together.
It is not a linked sequence of moves, but merely moves bundled together in a way which seems to flow.
The forms are the "correct" technical manner in which to perform the moves, only when an opponent is involved should the techniques be deviated to incapacitate.
synkronyk 2 years ago
@phalluses
go to find a wing chun master and u can try to beat him up
but i hope that u should call the ambulance before u start the fight
Bryanluk2007 2 years ago
There's no need to think so much about why he's doing these movements at a "slow" speed. This is a .:demonstration:.; the main goal is to let you see what he's doing.
As for the purpose of practicing slowly, I won't go into all that internal energy stuff, because it's a really big can of worms, but what is obvious is that you can examine the motion clearly at every point of its travel if you do it slowly, to make sure you're doing it right.
DarkXacreD 2 years ago
Wkd shellsuit, no one in our local chinese chippy wears 'em like this anymore
ukdirector85 2 years ago
Wong Shun Leung, the beimo king, over 100 rooftop fights undefeated.
thelighthousekeeper 3 years ago
maybe true or maybe he was good at advertizing.
Yakshinian 2 years ago
the actual number was around 50. Many of his peers over exaggerated his success. .
muffinburger 2 years ago
there is a lot more going on here then just the movements. Esshung no disrespect taken. The forms are visualy quite boring. But the mind mechanics going on are amazing and very complicated. This guy was a master. Both of the system and in fighting.
the rest of you can take your Leung Tings and Williams Cheungs and stick it where the sun don't shine.
dhorse7 3 years ago
nothing wrong with william cheung, that man can fight, you go fuck yourself , and dont go insulting william cheung or ill stick your head up your arse.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
please advise me how you intend to do this? not even willy cheung uses weights on his arms to improve his striking or blocking movements.
dhorse7 2 years ago
dont be a prick, resistance training does improve power in your techniques provided you trasin correctly, are you one of those arse holes that thinks weight training is only for big muscles, some of the greatest martial artist on the planet use weights to improve themselves, not only does resistance/ weight training increase power in your moves, it strengthens your joints, you will notice the difference whilst stricking the wal/punchbag, the better structure you have the more power you will have
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
resistance training will give you better explosive power, but wing chun is not reliant on muscle strength, wing chun primarily uses body mechanics,
pritcc 2 years ago
i agree, lets say you have 2 guys equally skilled in any given martial arts, one of them does resistance training i.e uses the iron kung fu rings twice a week whilst practicing forms kata, the strength and speed gains will be much greater than the other guys, he will also have better structure, noticeable results guaranteed.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
singha.. training in weights makes you stronger no doubt about that.
BUT
in wing chun there are specific training methods to strengthen your body, bones & structure for specific "wing chun" muscles used 4 fighting.
adding weights is Not one of them. we use chi gung mainly.. if you had some training. pole & knives as well with again specific exercises to train specific muscles.
even partner exercises to work on right muscles & floor exercises without using any weights like rings or irons.
mysteriousWingChun 2 years ago
This is something that Wing Chun guys dismiss without really understanding. Power training has progressed soo much over the last 20 years. Plyometrics for example will get any athlete faster, stronger and more explosive without loosing flexibility.
Any fighting art would gain from this.
tillerbear 2 years ago
A great Master and a Great loss to Kung Fu.
thelighthousekeeper 3 years ago 2
no disrespect just think they'are boring and they dont move around alot. just my oppinion
esshung 3 years ago
wing chun is a great system but i hate there forms
esshung 3 years ago
Why do you hate the forms?
HigherPlanes 3 years ago
These forms can be done as meditation. One can do them so slowly that it takes one or tow hours.
MaBu888 3 years ago
MaBu888: that's abolutely correct. What might seem like a different discipline to some is tai ch'i, which is famous for being done slowly, and people say "ah, it's just new-age meditation" but no, sped up, it's a martial art. So too with wing chun. Done slowly it has great meditative and ch'i bestowing effects.
To Esshung: You've completely missed the point. Sure it might not be visually stimulating, but wing chun is to be experienced, rather than just seen.
1000Demons 3 years ago
now that would be boring, i dont see the point doing them slowly, what would it improve? maybe doing them with wrist weights would improve your blocking striking power.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
I agree this is boring from some perspective. But the slowness is there for a reason, similar to taichi. The reason for the slowness is quite simple - what is called internal power, and of course technique will become tons better, and power generation will become immense.
MaBu888 2 years ago
that's cause your understanding of wing chun is very very junior. you probably think having muscles helps you do do wing chun better.
i don't of one movement in wing chun that requires muscles strength to perform. singhakabuttar. your a fool
dhorse7 2 years ago
you obviously dont want to improve or listen, you just want to make comments on youtube, dont knock it till youve tried it, its very easy to call someone a fool on youtube isnt it , says alot about your deep knowledge of wing chun, tough guy.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
yeah my deep knowledge. lol. from the guy who saier stthat doing forms fast and with weights on your wrist will give you better striking power. i referenced fool as in your the clown, comedy etc.
dhorse7 2 years ago
like i said its easy on youtube isnt it, mekes your day i bet.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
Doing them slowly will help you build up your Chi, similiar as in Tai-Chi.
And if you practise them slowly, you will also punch and attack more controlled in a real fight.
I know we have all seen a guy going to hyperventilate in a fight. You won´t hyperventilate in a fight if you practise slowly and controlled.
In other words; a immense advantage on your opponent!
DFCcaptain3 2 years ago
point taken, didnt think of it that way, a tai chi guy once told me that although they practice slowly, he was once attacked and the same movements came out fast and powerfull. but do also try the same movement with weights, at a slow pace, it does have its benefits, if it doesnt work for you, dont do it. THANKS MADE ME THINK.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
No problem mate ;)
DFCcaptain3 2 years ago
singhakabuttar By doing the forms slowly without weights you increase twitch (fast reflex) muscle fibers which increase speed rather than increasing muscle mass by using weights which increases power but slows you down Also by using weights on your wrists your working your biceps to hold them up when really you need to increase your triceps to punch hard.
hattoni 2 years ago
doing them slowly may have its benefits, try using the weghts( iron rings) and see for yourself, if not good luck.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
i do use weights for isometric training rather than weight training as such but not to do the forms might try it tho to see how it feels
hattoni 2 years ago
ok. nothing ventured, nothing gained, it definately worked for me, i got the idea from a freind who does hung gar.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
Wong was the man to kick your ass...
I wished I could have directly learned from him.
daosifu 3 years ago 12
@daosifu
But he was died in 1997
klsuperman 1 year ago
@daosifu My Master did.
RangRing68 10 months ago
This is mastery, you dullard!
narayanr 3 years ago
Good job
taromegu 4 years ago