Mitt Romney Contributes to 'Pray Away the Gay' Groups

[DillonDee1]

When Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Church, ran for President of the United States he met w/ the Pres & members of Congress about his plans to turn the country into a "Theodemocracy" because his Mormon group doesnt believe in a separation of Church & State

He sent campaign managers to the different states & was so persuasive & optomistic of winning he even sent ambassadors to different countries

But he was assassinated.

Mormons wept & yet 150 yrs later the dream is about to come true!

[peaceliberty4all]

Scientist don't know everything in fact they often know very little. Their theories are constantly changed or disproven. So I'm not sure why anyone would hang everything on some scientific study/theory (which can be bought and paid for BTW). Common sense tells you that humans were created to be heterosexual that is the only way the species can continue and if your argument is overpopulation, that is a huge crock!

[ateanis]

@peaceliberty4all if homosexuality is indeed a choice, not something that occurs due to genetics or some other biological factors, then why is it observed in other mammalian species? if it is not 'natural' then why does it occur in nature? and before you make the argument, you cannot say that man should be above his baser instincts and then turn around and make the argument against homosexuality based on supposed natural supremacy.

[peaceliberty4all]

@ateanis I am not sure where you are getting that I believe it is a "choice" I never stated any such thing. I simply argue that people are not born gay. The fact that it occurs in nature does not mean it naturally occurs in humans as there are many things that occur in nature that don't apply to the human species. Lame argument IMO.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - People in the majority always assume that minorities are "deviants" that the nature of bigotry. The most artistic, intelligent and creative people throughout human history have been Gay or Lesbian.

[Atlavocat]

15 Tough Questions for Heterosexuals!

1. What do You think caused your heterosexuality?

2. When and how did you decide you were a heterosexual?

3. Is it possible that your heterosexuality is just a phase that you may grow out of?

4. Is it possible that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of others of the same sex?

[Atlavocat]

5. Do your parents know you are straight? Do your friends?

6. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can't you just be who you are and keep it quiet? and/or do Your roommates know?

7. Why do heterosexuals put so much emphasis on sex?

8. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to introduce others to their lifestyle?

9. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexual. Do you consider it wise to expose children to heterosexual teachers?

[Atlavocat]

10. Just what do men and women do in bed together?

11. Bearing in mind the current divorce rate, why are there so few stable relationships between heterosexuals?

12. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?

13. There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered aversion therapy?

[Atlavocat]

14. Would you want your child to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they would face?

15. Your mother will still love you even though you're heterosexual.

They make you think, don't they?

Cheers

[newdimensionfilms]

Hey Rachel, I didn't chose to be a ski bum. I was born this way.

[Marchant2]

The Right Wing is going off into loony land where science and the laws of physics cease to exist. It's a national psychosis.

[jslasherX]

I could'nt agree more. This guy is WORSE than Bill Clinton when it comes to changing his tune to do whatever it takes to advance his own political agenda. I cannot believe this guy actually thinks he is going to beat Obama with these campaign tactics. In a sick way, I hope he wins the GOP nomination just to show how much one party in America has totally lost touch with main st America. The only GOP candidate I have an ounce of respect for, Ron Paul, doesn't appear to have a chance.

[hungry1969]

That tennis racket scene beats "Mommie Dearest" If Ben was hugging me I think it would make me queer for life.

[RayOfHopeNYGLBTQS]

Awesome Rachel and Wayne. Rachel, you are carving new territory for open and honest news and commentary for LGBTQIS people. Wayne, our community owes you so much for all you continue to investigate and expose. Our church certainly supports all good people such as yourselves. Rachel, we enjoyed your visit to the State Theatre in Ithaca a couple of years ago, and Wayne, we hope to bring you to Ithaca with Out Loud Chorus soon! THANK YOU BOTH.

[peaceliberty4all]

"Consider, for example, this statement from the late John Hopkins professor John Money: “Pedophilia and ephebophilia [referring to sexual attraction felt by an adult toward an adolescent] are no more a matter of voluntary choice than are left-handedness or color blindness. "

Sound familiar?

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - What is your point? Sexual orientation is fixed at birth. There is absolutely no evidence that sexual orientation can be changed or even affected by environmental factors. You seem to be fixated on child molestation. Is that your problem? Are you looking to hook up with a child?

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat My point is you will believe a lie if it suits you despite the reality of the situation. My point is "sexual orientation", which again didn't include homosexuality until 1973, is not fixed at birth unless you are talking about real sexual orientation which is heterosexual relations, period! And there is no solid proof that gays are born that way, none, any more than there is for any other sexual preference outside heterosexual. It is a scientific theory not a fact.

[mrquiet2009]

@peaceliberty4all No one knows what causes human sexuality. Most scientists believe it to be a complex combination and interaction of biological, environmental (which includes the womb), and psychological elements. So to state that heterosexuality is fixed at birth and that homosexuality cannot be is simply erroneous. By the way, many psychological factors, such as personality traits, are biologically based as well.

[Atlavocat]

@mrquiet2009 - Scientists know that sexual orientation is fixed at birth and cannot change during one's lifetime. Scientists know that there are brain differences between Gay and straight individuals that cannot be explained by non biological processes. Just because you don't understand human sexuality does not mean that scientists do not.

[mrquiet2009]

@Atlavocat In all honesty, I actually agree with you. I know of the studies you mentioned and their findings (I keep up on this because of personal reasons) . I also know that what happens in the womb(the bombardment of estrogen to make the fetus more acceptable to the woman's body) may also predetermine ones sexuality. The main point of my previous comment was that for her to say that heterosexuality was fixed at birth but homosexuality could never be is in fact completely erroneous.

[mrquiet2009]

@Atlavocat As for "change", it has been proven time and again that ex-gay therapies do not work and cause more damage. All major medical organizations including the APA and the AMA denounce the use of these so-called therapies. And the physical sexual attraction remains with those who have gone through this type of "therapy". I should have stated this in my previous posts, especially as it relates to the topic this video addresses, but sexuality cannot be changed.

[Ranokian]

@peaceliberty4all Born that way or not, it doesn't mean it's process that people can have any influence on. And why do you say that homosexuality is not an orientation? It seen as an sexual orientation by scientist. Now it is clear to me that you have a keen interest into not seeing it as an orientation, but how fair is it to adept a definition for political gain? btw.. homosexuality as orientation is just a theory, then so is heterosexuality. You cant cherry pick science. 

[peaceliberty4all]

@Ranokian I would encourage you to first read my posts down thread to really understand what I was saying and why I said it.

[Atlavocat]

@Ranokian - As both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association agree, there is nothing one can do to change one's sexual orientation - and any attempt to do so is going to lead to depression and self-hatred.

[Ranokian]

@Atlavocat It can be more nuanced.. Wikipedia actually quotes from a study done by The American Psychological Association, where not all effects are seen as negative. The article is about the ex gay movement. However, I agree with you, trying to fix something that isn't broken will cause (mental) damage, The irony is that ex gay is founded by the religious.. And its mostly the religious who created the pressure on the gays. So the circle is complete, and the real issue isn't dealt with.

[Atlavocat]

@Ranokian - The most pro-Gay and anti-Gay people throughout history have been religious Gay men. People who are secure in their own sexual orientation have no problem with homosexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Gravity is a scientific theory which I assume you reject as well. There is no evidence of any other cause of sexual orientation than the biological theories.

[RascalCoyote]

@Atlavocat again, Gravity if fact because it's proven, we know it exists, even if we don't fully understand it's nature, it's physics, we know it exists, we feel it, mesuer it, sattilits and space station orbit the earth because of it, a theory is when you can't yet prove something as known fact, gravity has been proven as known fact, and is part of the basic science teachings in school.

[RascalCoyote]

@Atlavocat how ever I'll except that even though gravity is known fact, there is much about it we don't yet understand and know, that is where theory come in.

[Atlavocat]

There is a theory (hypothesis) about sexual orientation and a theory (hypothesis) about gravity - both are constantly being studied and tested. People who claim that sexual orientation is not "in born" are just as reliable as those who believe the world was created in seven days.

[Atlavocat]

@RascalCoyote @RascalCoyote - The scientific definition of "theory" is not the everyday definition of "theory" as used by most. A common distinction made in science is between theories and hypotheses. Hypotheses are individual empirically testable conjectures, while theories are collections of hypotheses that are logically linked together into a coherent explanation of some aspect of reality and which have individually or jointly received some empirical support.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - You assume that the terms for sexual orientation and sexual activity have been fixed for a long time, but they have not. All the terms we use now for sexual activity are relatively new. Whether you like it or not the LGBT community has been around since humans first walked on two feet but what they were called - and called themselves - has varied greatly.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat I'm curious are you trying to convince yourself or everyone else? As I stated previously I know people who are gay and they do not believe they were born that way. I also understand a good deal about sexuality. I don't dispute that there are neurological differences between gays and straights but the question is what caused those differences and when. Have they tested newborns and found those differences present day one? If so send me the link to the study.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat Your argument is flawed because addicts have neurological differences from those who aren't addicts. Were they born that way no an external influence caused the neurological change. Some may be predisposed to addictions if their parents were addicts but we know that isn't the case with gays, it's not genetic which begs a new question why not?

[VF20Designs]

Good for you Wayne Besen! Thank you for your tireless work with TWO, and just so you know, I post all of your work on my unBEARable.mobi blog! Keep up the fantastic work for Gay Rights!

[MermaidKels2]

Great job Maddow. Thank you!

[lonelysith66]

Cute glasses, Wayne.

:3

[rextrek]

Thank u Wayne Besen for all you do

[Faergen]

But... they are right?? You can choose not to do it? You can choose not to kiss or have sex with people of the same sex. It's probably very hard and not very healthy, but you can none the less.

[rextrek]

@Faergen and YOu can choose not to muff dive and pound muff - right? It's probably very hard and not very healthy, but you can none the less.

[Faergen]

@rextrek I was merely commenting on the semantics, which seem to be something else than what is argued against. If they're advocating learning to act straight or not engaging in gay behavior, as opposed to saying that the sexuality in itself is entirely a product of social construction, then I'd say the counter arguments are invalid. I'm not defending their position however, just saying the arguments aren't addressing the issue.

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - Many priests claim to be celibate and we all know how unsuccessful that winds up being.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat Yeah sure... I don't think it's healthy as I said. But if it is wrong to be gay in the minds of the Christians, and some are more Christian than gay, one can't really argue that they want to try not to act gay... Forcing people to give up gayness is another matter though..

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - More and more Christians believe that homosexuality is just as acceptable as heterosexuality. Jesus Christ said nothing against it - and Jesus Christ said that we should not judge, but love, one another. Sexual orientation is fixed at birth and those who repress their feelings are driven to self-destruction (or child molestation in the case of many priests).

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat I know :0) All of that... but it becomes a theological question rather than a psychological one, because it is about what god really wants... Now, pedophilia to me, is like any other sexuality (including heterosexuality), of course sometimes it springs out of repression of ones true desires in priests, like homosexual behavior springs out of repression in jail... But we as a society must Regulate pedophilic behavior we think it is destructive. an argument (see next comment)

[Faergen]

@Faergen an argument might be put forward that it is in some way shape or form bad for society to allow homosexuality, although I find none convincing. In the mean time, I think people should be Allowed to repress their sexuality and try to "cure" themselves if they find their own sexuality to be wrong in their own views...

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - People don't change their sexual orientation and there is nothing ethical or morally wrong with homosexuality. Homophobia, on the other hand, is a mental illness and should be wiped out.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat I never said people changed their sexuality? I said if people want to try to help themselves not 'act' according to their sexuality, they should be free to do so? I doubt that 90% of the people accused of homophobia actually is afflicted by it truly.. I mean, usually people don't have an irrational fear of homosexuals... it's not like they get the shakes and run in panic. They just think it's wrong (for bad reasons)..

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - You need to look up the word "homophobia" in the dictionary, it has nothing to do with a "fear" of homosexuals or homosexuality, ration or otherwise.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat You need to look up the word 'phobia' which is greek for fear, and in All other instances of it's use means an irrational fear of something, like arachnophobia for example, fear of spiders. Damn, I'm beginning to think you are just trolling now, because you've done nothing but argue half-assed against what I was saying. My remark was about the Word being used inappropriately, meaning I know what people mean when they say homophobia, but it's not really a phobia...

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - I know Greek, we have a lot of Greek words in English, but not all English words use the same definition as their Greek origin. The word "homophobia" was invented by a friend of mine in the 1980s and he has nothing to do with fear - and most English dictionaries make that clear. I think you are a very stupid individual.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat Invented by a friend of yours? That does not make it correct does it? I'm not trying to be evil, but words have connotations to them, which means they are going to imply things to the user. Homophobia implies all sorts of stuff that is simply wrong because of the way it is used in all other circumstances. Now, I'm not a Christian, I don't think homosexuality is wrong, but it is demeaning to oneself not to address the actual arguments made by the opposition.

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - You should look up the word in a dictionary. It will tell you both its origin and meaning (although most dictionaries do not say which book "homophobia" was first used). Homophobia is to sexual orientation as racism is to race and antisemitism is to religion. Fear is not a necessary element, although hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality is often based on fear and ignorance. You can argue with the dictionary if you wish.

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen You aren't going to change someone's sexual orientation by criticizing or demeaning them. Your homophobia is demeaning, IMHO. People who secure in their own sexual orientation have no problem with homosexuality.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat What are you talking about? Firstly, I KNOW how 'homophobia' is USED, what I'm talking about is that it is the Wrong Word to you... It's like using the word xenophobic for someone who is racist. Someone can be one and not the other, or both! But the words themselves have different connotations. What I am arguing is that when you and people say homophobia they are really not, what they are is biased and hateful towards gay people... that's not a Phobia though, just stupid!

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat and I'm not being homophobic, I'm trying to speak to you as if you were a rational human being who can read what I write... Nowhere have I said homosexuality is wrong? Or expressed something similar...

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - Not all modern English words mean what they meant in Greek or Latin (or any other language). Again, look up the word. Why debate with you when you don't take the effort to check out the facts?

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat ... Are you completely daft? I already said I KNOW how it is used?! Do you even read what I write? I KNOW!! But just because the dictionary says it means something, or just because we use a word to describe something, doesn't mean it cannot be criticised IF the word carries unfortunate connotations... As I have argued... Now feel free not to address my argument, but don't say it's me not doing something. The dictionary definition is IRRELEVANT to what I am arguing...

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - You are IRRELEVANT to this conversation. Get a life.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat Constructive...

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat Sexual orientation is not fixed at birth! Think of all the sexual attractions that exist in the world and then rethink that theory.

[RascalCoyote]

@peaceliberty4all IN THEORY, unless that is of course you have some science on this, but yea,more research needs to be done.

[Atlavocat]

@RascalCoyote - There's been a lot of science done, check out: LeVay S, (2011). "Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why: The Science of Sexual Orientation". New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19973-767-3.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - It's not my theory, it's a fact that all Gay people know. If you don't believe me, check out the science. LeVay S, (2011). "Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why: The Science of Sexual Orientation". New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19973-767-3. The brains of straights and Gays are different - and measurably so.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat So you are saying that pedophilia is "fixed at birth"? Or what about beastiality or bi-sexual etc, etc etc.? Ok if it makes you feel better you keep believing the lies. And I could care less about the science as it is sometimes manipulated and many times found later to be false! It ain't fact, it's theory!

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, nor is bestiality. On the other hand stupidity is pretty obvious at a young age and you seem to exhibit it.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat What are you talking about? of course it is? Like dendrophilia (sexual attraction towards trees) Nerophilia or other sexual attractions. There might be a distinction between fetish and sexuality, but even so, if being attracted to children or dead people is just a fetish, I would say being gay is also 'just'. On the other hand if not, then who are you to say someones sexual preferences are not as "real" as your own? I'm not saying diddling kids is right just so we're clear!

[Atlavocat]

@Faergen - The word "homosexual" does not mean "man sex", it is a mixture of Greek and Latin (invented by a German in the 1800's) supposedly meaning "same sex". A lot of words in English mean something different in English than their root words indicate. Homophobia has always been used to mean the kind of prejudice and bigotry you express because of your "dislike" of homosexuality.

[Faergen]

@Atlavocat You are right. What I'm saying is that YOU yourself used the word earlier as if it described a mental disorder. BUT your description of homophobia is Not a mental disorder. What I'm saying is: Maybe homophobia exists as a form of mental disorder, but what you describe with the word is Not such a thing. That is why I'm saying it is an unfortunate word, because it obviously has connotations that lead you to think All homophobes are ill (which they are not by your definition!)

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat recognized as a sexual orientation using many of the same arguments the homosexuals used to obtain that status.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - You know straight people don't spend hours arguing with Gay people. Are you trolling for a date?

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat I assure you I am 100% straight, nice deflecting though. I'm also not a bigot but believe whatever you want. Nambla is not the only thing I mentioned and to my knowlege it is still in existence but regardless B4U-ACT is alive and well and pushing the same agenda as NAMBLA maybe they just changed their name. They just held a synposium in Aug 2011.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - If you are straight why are you so interested in Nambla, no one I know has ever been involved in it. Only bigots mention it. I have never heard of B4U-ACT and I am a member of several Gay organizations. Straight men who are secure in their sexual orientation have no problem with Gay people, you obviously do.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat LOL as for your ridiculous deflections I'm not "so interested" in anything I came across the info while doing research a few years back. FYI I am a woman, mother of three children, so I took notice when hearing about NAMBLA and B4U - ACT and their agenda!

[Atlavocat]

Can you show me one single generally accepted or peer-reviewed study that can point to ANY factor in the environment that can be shown to affect sexual orientation?

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Having studied the issue myself for more than forty years, I could never find a single scientific peer-reviewed study showing that sexual orientation can be attributed to any particular environmental factor. Straight people are just as likely to be molested as children as Gay people. Straight people are just as likely to have "close-binding mothers" and absent fathers as Gay people. On the other hand, Gay men are four times more likely to be left-handed.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat I was referring to sexual attraction and a pedophiles attraction to children is just as strong as a heterosexuals or homosexuals attraction. There are children who rape and molest children does that mean they were born that way? People aren't born to act contrary to their design, it is internal and external factors that make someone gay just as it is those factors that contribute to someone being a pedophile.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Sexual orientation is fixed at birth. How people act on their sexual orientation is the product of their environment. People who feel impotent and inferior often sexually molest children because they are easier to manipulate and control. More straights molest children than Gays - and that's not because Gays are a minority, it's because Gay men, in particular, don't have those feelings of impotency - and those who do absolutely insist they are straight.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Bigots like you have been trying to link homosexuality to pedophilia for years. Just as they tried to link African-Americans and Jews to rape and incest. No one buys it. It is a stupid argument.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat I am not the one trying to link it and you know it. Pedophiles are doing that not me. I'm sure you are aware of Nambla. I certainly don't see gays in the same catagory as pedophiles and I am in no way saying you are bad or evil. I am pointing out that homosexuality was not always considered a sexual orientation. I am pointing out the similarities that the pedo community has themselves pointed out between themselves and homosexuals and the fact that they too are pushing to be

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Only bigots mention Nambla, it was created by the F.B.I. and all the members were police officers for years. It hasn't existed in years.

[eshnajizzle]

@peaceliberty4all

Indeed they are, but can you really compare being gay to being a pedophile, if you take a look at the effect they have on the relationships the people in question have? Pedophiles, I would say (with admittedly little knowledge on the issue), were born the way they are, and if they weren't they can't help it now. Their orientation would lead them to unilateral relationships harmful to the child. Homosexuals have mutual, loving relationships with consenting adults. Comparison?

[peaceliberty4all]

@eshnajizzle I would suggest you read all my posts as I made it clear that I don't see the act of homosexuality the same as pedophilia. Clearly there are very big differences within the relationship. But neither homosexuals or pedophiles were born that way and there is no difinitive proof to show that they were. It is a theory not a fact.

[eshnajizzle]

@peaceliberty4all

I actually did, and this was the view I discerned from them. Glad to hear I was wrong.

What implications do you think it has whether someone is born gay or becomes one due to environment?

[RascalCoyote]

@peaceliberty4all there is no definitive proof to show they weren't born gay, there's no definitive proof sexual Orientation is a choice.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Sexual orientation is fixed at birth, there is absolutely no evidence that sexual orientation can be "acquired" or "changed" after birth. That is a fact. If you dispute this, how can you explain that while the general public is left handed about 10% of the time, Gay men are about 70% left handed. Did they "chose" to be left-handed? Did something in the environment make them left-handed?

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat Your argument that straight people have been molested or have "close-binding mothers" has no merit as there are some people who react to sexual abuse by becoming promiscuous and others who have the direct opposite reaction. There are a lot of factors that go into how one reacts to what happens to them, to their enviroment and their upbringing and the effect it has on their lives and who they become.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - There is absolutely no evidence that sexual orientation is affected by or reflected in how one is raised. Children raised in perfect environments are just as likely to be straight as Gay. Children raised in terrible environments are just as likely to be straight as Gay. Most Gay people know they are Gay at an early age. I know I was Gay (although I didn't know the word) when I was five years old.

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat And how did you know you were gay at age 5?

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - I remember distinctly remember looking at a picture of my kindergarten class and picking out the boys I wanted to be close to. I knew nothing about sex, but I knew that boys exciting me and made me feel alive, girls did not. I remember looking up the word "homosexual" at 13 and knew it applied to me. When did you first suspect that you were Gay?

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat You do realize that what you experienced as a child could very well have come from abuse whether you remember it or not, or some other factor. It does not prove you were born with it. And again I would ask if a teen is not attracted to those of their own age but instead small children does that mean by your same logic that they were born that way?

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - I was never abused, I was never molested, my parents are in their 70's and still happily married. What's your excuse?

[peaceliberty4all]

@Atlavocat "Psychiatric leaders, like Dr. Richard Green, who were instrumental in removing homosexuality from the APA’s list of mental disorders in 1973, have been fighting to remove pedophilia as well. "

Your scientist found that pedophiles are predominately left -handed as well since you brought that up earlier.

[Atlavocat]

@peaceliberty4all - Only bigots would link homosexuality to pedophilia. Throughout history, all minorities have been accused of kidnapping and molesting children, it's a lie used to manipulate weak-minded individuals.

[RascalCoyote]

@Atlavocat LeVay cautioned against misinterpreting his findings in a 1994 interview: "It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain.

[Atlavocat]

@RascalCoyote - Have you read, "Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why

The Science of Sexual Orientation" Simon LeVay

What causes a child to grow up gay or straight? In this book, neuroscientist Simon LeVay summarizes a wealth of scientific evidence that points to one inescapable conclusion: Sexual orientation results primarily from an interaction between genes, sex hormones, and the cells of the developing body and brain.

[Atlavocat]

@Atlavocat - While clearly there is a genetic link to sexual orientation, Simon LeVay says that it is only one possible cause of sexual orientation, environmental factors in the womb control the ultimate sexual orientation of everyone. There are distinct and measurable differences between the brains of Gays and straights that do not change during life.

[RascalCoyote]

@AtlavocatI Believe you are mistaken, you obviously misinterpreted his artical, the DR, make NO claims to FACT, only theory, the doctor meant for his research to be regarded as educated theory NOT fact.

[Atlavocat]

@RascalCoyote - Gravity is an educated theory, too, do you dispute that?

[RascalCoyote]

@Atlavocat Actually your wrong, Gravity is a proven fact, we know it's fact because we are constantly under it's effect, we see it's effect when we drop an apple, we feel it on a roller coaster, we feel it's effect when we fall, gravity is fact.

[Atlavocat]

@RascalCoyote - For members of the LGBT community, sexual orientation and sexual identity is something we are born with - and we are reminded of that fact constantly just as you are reminded of the fact of gravity.

[RascalCoyote]

@Atlavocat but this does NOT prove sexual orientation is a choice, nor what causes a man to be gay.

[Ranokian]

15 % tax rate.. My god. How can you ever expect to run a country with tax that low? I guess the a lot of people in the US care to much about themselves...