Part 11 - CONSPIRACY TEST: THE RFK ASSASSINATION - 11 of 11

[melaytonuk]

It is quite evident that posters on this website do not read books and simply retrieve their information from speculative news programmes. Read the articles on my website (melayton dot com) and learn the truth about Van Praag's bogus research. Readers should be aware that Van Praag is an AUDIO expert unlike Philip Harrison who is an ACOUSTICS expert. Until you realise the difference in these fields of science you will be taken in by this conspiracy nonsense.

[noonav]

"Lay to rest he continuing carping about minor details...?" Did he actually say that?

The details are far from "minor, & insisting on a thorough investigation which takes into account compelling new evidence, can hardly be dismissed as "carping"... Unbelievable.

I wonder who's padding this guy's wallet, as he seems determined to ignore OVERWHELMING evidence that there was a major cover-up by both the LAPD and the federal government, and insists on defending the ridiculous lone-gunman story.

[Thejbirdy]

I wonder if the cop just screwed up and fired at Sirhan but hit Kenendy instead? the LAPD had to cover it up, perhaps?

Only a theory and perhaps far reaching at that.

JB

[secretsam109]

You're not the first to suggest that. If you'll search this page for the name "Cesar" you will see that your suggestion has been raised several times already and debated. And, yes, it is indeed far reaching. By the way, the gentleman in question -- Thane Eugene Cesar -- was not a cop on the LAPD force but was a part-time private security guard.

[Thejbirdy]

@secretsam109

Yeah, I thought it was a shot in the dark (no pun intended) but just was why the LAPD so slipshod in their supposed investigation? What was that security guard even DOING there? Why has he not been brought forward as of late? Mystery abounds.

JB

[secretsam109]

The LAPD either was incompetent or engaged in a cover-up. The guard service was providing hotel crowd control. Guard Gene Cesar said he decided to help clear the area around RFK as he walked thru the kitchen pantry (obviously if Cesar fired his gun deliberately then his real reason for being there was to make sure Kennedy received a fatal head shot). For Cesar to be brought forward now the RFK case would have to be re-opened. Victim Paul Schrade is working on that in L.A. Offer him your support.

[PruszynskiRecording]

View other YouTube videos on this same subject of the Pruszynski Recording. YouTube key search words: RFK Pruszynski

[DoctorScuba]

That "Thane Eugene Ceasar" has a Gacy quality to Him!

[xxZaharoulaxx]

Where's Mel Ayton's logic in saying that Sirhan killed RFK when according to Noguchi all the shots to RFK were from behind !!?

[PruszynskiRecording]

Check out all the other YouTube videos also dealing with the subject of Stanislaw Pruszynski's audio recording of the RFK assassination.

All these other videos can be found by entering three key search words into the YouTube search window. These three search words are: Pruszynski Van Praag

[Stylefree83]

I understand that something of this precedence, gates should open seas should part people should get out of the way and let the truth shine i dont see that and i know the longer time goes on without anything short of getting sirhan a roommate beurocracy will grind it to a halt

[lenmccain0842]

You blather, blather, blather without thought... without any comprehension of what has just been said. The Pruszynski discovery is NEW. How many times must this be repeated to you until you understand it? The gates and the seas and all these other crazy images in your muddled, unclear mind are not going to "open" right away. It takes time. Your child-like mind expects it to all happen like magic immediately. But it won't. It takes time. This is new. It has only just begun. Concentrate on that.

[Stylefree83]

it isnt new if it was new this wouldnt have been posted a year ago

[lenmccain0842]

Ah, so we are to understand that you define for us what is new and what is not. Heaven has bestowed upon you the power to set the border between what is new and what is old. One year shall be that border, for you have decreed this. You have set the seas and the gates for the rest of us. We must bow before your child-like mind and accept your definitions of all things. The Pruszynski recording discovery is not new... simply because you have said so. You are obviously a very deep thinker.

[lenmccain0842]

However, outside the tortured confines of your "mind" (and I invoke that term loosely), where the rest of us must live and must deal with reality, your decreed border separating the new from the old alas goes unheeded and ignored. This is because it just so happens that in the real world anything that is only one-year-old (or, for that matter, 2 or 3 or even 4 or 5 years old) is considered "new" if it be part of a 40-year-old murder case. Thus the Pruszynski discovery is new. Memorize that.

[Stylefree83]

it'd be impossible to open the case with so much evidence destroyed. I wish it could be reopened but those with the most power will never allow it

[lenmccain0843]

Nonsense. Have you not been paying attention to this documentary? The Pruszynski recording is first-ever stand-alone forensic evidence of a second gun being fired in the Ambassador Hotel kitchen pantry at 12:16 AM PDT on June 5, 1968. It's literally better than any other single piece of evidence in this case whether still in existence or destroyed. That fact should be crystal clear to you if you've paid any attention at all to this documentary. As for your defeatism, it accomplishes nothing.

[Stylefree83]

I understand, but ask yourself some questions. have you seen any of this on prime time news stations? have you heard of anything being reopened investigated or just trying to go viral on youtube? has anyone in congress or even a freakin lobbyist or some guy pushin a book on cnn said anything done anything about this new evidence? the more time that passes the less likely anything will be done.

[lenmccain0842]

You're blissfully ignorant of the news coverage of the Pruszynski recording over the last 10 months. Type the words "Pruszynski" and "assassination" in the YouTube search window and you'll see TV news reports about it from CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and CNN. This will answer your ill-conceived question about prime time news stations: Yes, there's been a lot of coverage. As for re-opening the case, listen to those news reports and you'll learn of Paul Schrade's and William Pepper's current efforts.

[Stylefree83]

any of those efforts come to fruition?

[lenmccain0842]

You don't focus the mind very well, do you? If you were someone who is able to comprehend this documentary and the news coverage of the last several months, you would understand that the Pruszynski discovery is a NEW development in the RFK case. Thus you would understand that the efforts to re-open the case based on this new discovery have only just begun. Instead of blathering on, based on ignorance, try to concentrate the mind a little. Focus. Comprehend. Learn. Think. And understand.

[intercourseman69]

i don't believe in any conspiracy theories as of now, but this is by far the most convincing and plausible one. and i certainly don't blame anyone for believing that the government would do something like this given that they've done much worse. regardless of the RFK verdict, i am never giving the gov't the benefit of the doubt

[pauleycamerieexodus]

I'm with you on the latter. I believe Tom Jefferson would agree that we should never ever give Government the benefit of the doubt but should always (ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL) hold Government's feet to the fire in every single solitary case. If we don't, then we are not worthy of our citizenship in a democracy. As Jefferson said: To expect a people to be ignorant and free is to expect what never was and never will be. We must be aware and vigilant (and unrelenting in holding Government accountable).

[Sondakhan]

Fascinating! It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the gov't had it done and/or covered it up. Why are the only Americans in recent history who were successfully assassinated progressive or antiestablishment figures? I would be interested in knowing if there are other sounds that could easily be mistaken for the sounds of shots in the video.

[WNYWTV]

The Pruszynski recording is not video. As is clearly explained in this documentary, the Pruszynski recording is audio-only. It's a sound recording made by a portable cassette tape recorder. As for the sounds, non-shot sounds in this recording can only be easily mistaken for shots if the analysis methodology is slip-shod. But Van Praag's analysis (verified by Dooley & Pegas in Pasadena and Brixen in Denmark) is solid. Its confirmed gunshots are not "other sounds" nor are they echoes or ricochets.

[Sondakhan]

I would be interested in knowing what non-gunshot "other sounds", if any, might have similar characteristics to gunshots when subjected to analysis. Obviously there are "other sounds" that the human ear will readily mistake for gunshots and, not being an expert on the subject, I don't know how confidently this type of analysis can distinguish between gunshots and similar "other sounds". Without that information I can't really form an opinion of their analysis.

[WNYWTV]

Any two sounds can easily be perceived, rightly or wrongly, by someone's ear as having one or more characteristics in common. Proper scientific analysis though is not conducted on that singular basis. Van Praag has a web site if you'd like to investigate further. To find it, Google the following: An Open & Shut Case.

[Ccutler76]

very interesting video.

[n0gar]

Maybe not a conspiracy, but maybe the gaurd took the opportunity to kill him since he had it? Maby he did not paln it, but took it since it was there? The fact that he is living outside of the US makes me think that he is avoiding a pontential arrest ot at least further questioning.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

It is true that the Pruszynski recording alone cannot reveal whether there was a conspiracy or if Gene Cesar got excited and fired the second gun repeatedly as a result of wigging out (unintentionally striking RFK's body and clothing four times in the process of over-reacting to the situation). While the Pruszynski recording can't tell us that, it can and does tell us that there were two guns firing shots. The recording is first-ever stand-alone forensic evidence of a second gun in the pantry.

[imsneakey]

....whoops... ok nixon was in office at the time, ok so i made a mistake! But he hated the kennedys too, infact if you look at it most of the big names hated the kennedys, and why because the were for the people not the IMC! OK I RE-REST MY CASE. :0}

[urockmeallnightlong]

Well, re-rest it again. Nixon was not in office in June 1968. He didn't enter office until January 20, 1969 (he had to win the presidential election first, which wasn't held until November 1968). Lyndon Johnson was still in office when RFK was assassinated in June 1968. This is stuff you can easily look up for yourself.

[radio187]

LBJ hated the Kennedys more than anyone alive at the time.

[dannyandthejuniors]

LBJ hated himself even more.

[yochanan7777]

This follows the same m.o. used in most shadow government-sponsored black ops: the quickly identified "lone gunman", a patsy one can prop before the mass media and home viewers (preferably a Manchurian Candidate to boot); a small caliber weapon at close range (CIA [much like mobsters] specialty is to take out targets at close range with small caliber weapons striking in a strategic location rear of head);

[yochanan7777]

faking a "botched" investigation; destroying evidence quickly and excusing it as a way of avoiding accumulation of "junk" as LAPD's Daryl Gates called it in this video (since when is the most important crime scene evidence in the last 50 years is worthy of the term "junk"?);

[yochanan7777]

the main suspect other than the highly-publicized patsy allegedly passes a lie detector test ...yet... chooses to live outside the U.S. in the Phillippines; then control the media's coverage to show only the government angle of the story. Hey America: aren't we tired of being treated like blithering spineless fools who'll accept anything wothout questioning it?

[urockmeallnightlong]

Found a great article on this RFK recording at The Guardian newspaper in London. It's at guardian DOT co DOT uk SLASH science SLASH 2008 SLASH feb SLASH 22 SLASH kennedy DOT assassination. Also Wikipedia talks about this at h t t p COLON SLASH SLASH en DOT wikipedia DOT org SLASH wiki SLASH Robert UNDERLINE Kennedy UNDERLINE assassination NUMBER SIGN Pruszynski UNDERLINE recording

[FomalhautAntares]

Are you willing to stand up and speak out for Bobby? Are you willing to write letters and make phone calls to Congress? If 20,000 letters came pooring in to the offices of various senators it would be hard to ignore.

[pauleycamerieexodus]

Let's do what this guy suggests!

[FomalhautAntares]

How can a man be shot 3 times from the back by someone standing in front of him?

The audio finding - it's not an exact science. Thane Cesar could have taken a sedative to pass his lie detector test & confessed to being a racist.

Dr. Thomas Noguchi, the one who performed the autopsy is still alive & worth talking to again. The shoddy police work alone should be enough to reopen an investigation. No government agencies or agents involved.

[doohban]

This program nails it. Sirhan fired only 8 shots but the Pruszynski tape shows more than 8 shots were fired in the RFK assassination, PROVING A SECOND GUN WAS FIRED IN THE ASSASSINATION. The Pruszynski tape also shows at least 2 shots were fired too closely together to have come from the same gun, AGAIN PROVING A SECOND GUN WAS FIRED. Sirhan had only one gun and no ability to reload it, PROVING THE SECOND GUN WAS FIRED NOT BY SIRHAN BUT BY A SECOND GUNMAN HIDDEN SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE PANTRY.

[pepsiaddict]

No government agencies or agents involved? Then who is going to fund it, and who are the experts who would investigate it? The same loon philosophy profs who claim 9-11 was an inside job? Please. This program raises interesting points, but I don't trust conspiracy loons to investigate any more than you trust the government to investigate.

[FomalhautAntares]

If the government helped cover it up then it is pointless to have them preside over the investigation. I don't think fundraising would be a serious issue. Who are the experts? There are people in highly regarded positions - ivy law schools - ballistics experts - forensic science professionals - to review & re-examine evidence. Have a citizen's oversight committee selected like jurors. I'm not interested in 9/11. My interest is justice for the murder of a man that fought for it for all people.

[pepsiaddict]

L.A.P.D. is also a branch connected to the government. My point is, all your experts are going to be connected to some level of government. Also, if the experts come back after looking at all the evidence again and conclude that it was a single shooter and they had it right the first time, are you willing to accept that? If not, your interest may be an unhealthy devotion to a dead man and a theory. I'm not opposed to what you say, I just hope that it would be done without bias either way.

[FomalhautAntares]

An independent investigation would not be connected. LAPD & the coroner's office were a lot more corrupt than you'd ever imagine. Dr. Noguchi though is one of only a few people to come out of that era & office who was decent. Nothing about Bob's death will ever be acceptable to me... but I have no idea who killed him or why & surprisingly no theories. We all want justice but you have to maintain balance & focus on life & the present. Best wishes to you. :)

[imsneakey]

pepsiaddict; You are a tit!!!

So what you are saying is if you don't buy the lone gunman line then you are a loon? Well i don't buy the anti inside job loons. its a cover up, and ask yourself this who has the power to pull off a cover up? who was in office at the time? eh! Johnson, and he was move evil than Nixon.(and he hated the Kennedys) i rest my case... for now.

[chuck0011]

Thank you for posting this video. This Pruszynski investigation is a major development. This is the best evidence in 40 years that a second gunman was involved in the Bobby Kennedy assassination. It should be obvious to anyone well familiar with this case that there was a conspiracy to kill RFK and a conspiracy to cover-up that fact. Thanks again!

[youjib]

polygraphs are bullshit

[samiemma]

Polygraphs aren't valid evidence of either guilty or innocence and the evidence on that is overwhelming in the psychological research field.

So, to claim that Cesar is innocent because of a polygraph is useless. This is pseudoscience.

[Mandalore863]

Thane Eugene Cesar accidentally fired into Kennedy while trying to fire into Sirhan. And Sirhan successfully fired more shots into Kennedy. Robert Kennedy's assassination was an accident.

[secretsam109]

Dead wrong. There's NO WAY Cesar could have fired ACCIDENTALLY into RFK. 4 of the shots fired in the pantry hit Kennedy and all 4 RFK shots (the 3 that wounded Kennedy and the 4th that passed thru his clothing) were all fired from behind, at very close range, at upward & right-to-left angles. Under those circumstances, it's impossible for any of those 4 RFK shots to have been fired ACCIDENTALLY. All 4 of those RFK shots (not one or some, but all 4) had to have been fired DELIBERATELY by Cesar.

[xavierareivax]

None of these shots were fired accidentally. No question all were fired deliberately and by more than one gunman. Now then, what do we do about this?

[Xenu]

You may very well be right. Caesar claims he fell to his back when Sirhan fired. We'll never know because the LAPD destroyed evidence which would have confirmed and denied the 2nd gunman theory. But the idea that Sirhan was brainwashed... just doesn't fly with science. That's sci-fi. Sirhan is rightfully in jail, though.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

"We'll never know" is an assumption you're jumping to, which completely ignores the potential of the Pruszynski recording. If you bother to pay adequate attention to the points made in this Discovery Times "Conspiracy Test" program, then you should understand that. You're also wrong about possible Sirhan mind control (brainwashing as you call it) not flying with Science.

[heycomeandgetit]

Damn straight, I agree with you! I don't see how anybody watching this TV documentary can honestly and intelligently say that we'll never know the truth because the LAPD destroyed some of the evidence. Though they probably tried to do that, they didn't succeed in destroying ALL the evidence. Obviously they missed their chance to extinguish the Pruszynski tape, thank God. Great documentary!

[subzero253]

How come it's always the good leaders?

[eleanorbates]

Because, by definition, good leaders always are up against bad (evil) enemies. The journalist who made this important discovery deserves a Pulitzer Prize. Why is the journalist unnamed?

[elmaton17]

anyway the other gun man were 3 CIA oppertives sheck my JFK playlist and see the video

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

That's not what Shane O'Sullivan is claiming. You're jumping to conclusions there. O'Sullivan is merely claiming that there seems to be evidence suggesting a CIA presence at the Ambassador Hotel that night.

[ImeldaDavies]

This is an interesting one. Some good researchers checked out O'Sullivans claims and he may have been mistaken. Its available on Google. That does not however rule out the potential of a conspiracy nor the shadow of agency involvement however.

What gets me Bowwow is the destruction of evidence by the LAPD.

[elmaton17]

the documents are gonna be shown to the people of the JFK assassination on 2038 and Boby Kennedy at 2028, on what i remember

[Xenu]

Almost all of the government JFK documentation came out with the JFK Act which came out as a result of the Oliver Stone movie. I know that volumes of LAPD material came out a few decades ago (that which had not been destroyed). I don't know anything about any federal investigation.

[bmuthafuckinj]

wow... i only just got into this topic but its very intresting... poor fella had right ideas but pissed sum1 off... its the same as jfk fuckin govt cover up...

[Xenu]

What about the girl in the polka dot dress? Was she just a red herring?

[spritz0]

She was Sirhan's "phsychological activator"- she asked for a coffee with LOTS OF CREAM, words that were hypnotically suggested to Sirhan so he would snap and go shoot Bobby, who was just then going through the kitchen. Sirhan fired from the front, Thane Eugene Cesar from behind.

[Superbad4444]

Actually, I think Sirhan's alleged conversation with the girl about coffee did not occur inside the kitchen pantry or while RFK was walking through the pantry. If I recall, Sirhan claimed it occurred sometime that night before the shooting, and not inside the pantry itself but near a coffee urn possibly located just down the corridor from the pantry.

[Superbad4444]

Which is not meant to take anything away from your point about the girl's words to Sirhan triggering his pre-programmed hypnotic "trance" during which he later fired at Kennedy in the pantry. I agree with you about her role as Sirhan's hypnotic activator or trigger and about a second gunman actually firing the fatal Kennedy shots.

[Xenu]

How do you know she was Sirhan's "psychological activator"? And how do you know he was brainwashed? That seems like pure sci-fi. The MK-ULTRA project went nowhere near that level of sophistication. And what conspiracist would want two assassins to strike at the same time?

[spritz0]

from information I overheard at Fort Bragg, while I was at School of the Americas, 5th Special Forces. I'm not scared anymore!

[Xenu]

Uh... huh. Ok. Sure.

[spritz0]

I think you should check out "Assasination of Robert Kennedy" on wikipedia, at least look at some of the facts. The autopsy clearly stated there were gunpowder burns on the back of his neck!

[Xenu]

I'm aware of that. I'm simply critical of the fact that you respond to my asking for a source by saying you "overheard it at Fort Bragg." That is not a credible response.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

Xenu, no one knows for sure the girl was Sirhan's activator. It's speculation based on what Sirhan claims to remember and on what witnesses claim they saw. Bottom line: it's speculation (though certainly worthy of consideration). The Sirhan mind control evidence is much stronger. Read about it.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

Xenu, a two-gunman operation is extremely risky (obviously a one-gunman op is much easier to manage). The only reason to do this with two gunmen is to make sure to place the target in a kill zone from which he can't escape. I'm not saying that happened or didn't happen in this case. Just saying a two-gunman op (while extremely risky) is a viable option.

[ImeldaDavies]

Nope, MK Ultra was not pure Sci-Fi X-Files fag stuff. It was very bloody real, and very bloody sinister. Check out 'Search for The Manchurian Candidate' Xenu. Remember Heavensgate and so on these were supposedly mere cults.

Can you imagine what the CIA with their reach and resources can do. Also why on earth would they want us to know they were succesful!

I don't get your angle on the two assassins I take it you think Oswald got his brother?

[Xenu]

I've read the John Marks book. I never said MK-ULTRA was not documented fact only that it never achieved it's final goal. At least there is no evidence to the contrary. Not sure if the Oswald question was directed at me. Are you saying you think Heaven's Gate was not a real cult?

[ImeldaDavies]

nope not at all. You are quite right. Im going to go to sleep but ill be bAck. But Xenu its all good and cool.

[ImeldaDavies]

I think it was a real cult.

Sadly, I can remember reading some years back that the CIA were involved in studying and infiltrating such groups.

Damn I wish I could remember the article its good to give a reference. Jim Hougan has written some good stuff on this type of thing however!

[ImeldaDavies]

Something wrong with her Lisa Pease has written some great stuff concerning her and Spritzo is correct. Whats of concern however is that there were something like 3-4 guns in the place. Bullet holes riddled the place.

[Xenu]

Didn't Pease write that she was the daughter of an Iranian asset and that there's a picture of her at a protest somewhere?

[ImeldaDavies]

Yes, she did its a murky story and I have not read her work on it for while (I'm to busy at the moment). But, I can recall being really impressed. I met hear when I was in the States shes really lovely.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

ImeldaDavies, the kitchen pantry was NOT riddled with bullet holes. You're exaggerating. However, LAPD critics believe there were at least four holes near the pantry's west-end double doors and more than one hole in the pantry ceiling (as well as at least one hole in a backstage doorjamb, down the hall from the pantry), exceeding the number of shots Sirhan could have fired. So do some believe there were several holes? Yes. Do they believe the pantry was literally riddled with bullet holes? No.

[ImeldaDavies]

lol, slight exaggeration for sure. You know your stuff alright check out Lisa Pease's work on RFK's assassination. Its really good.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

Let's add one more bullet mark (a ricochet mark) which LAPD critcs believe was located in the vicinity of the pantry's west-end double swinging doors. So 5 bullet holes or marks in that area alone, one bullet hole in a backstage doorjamb down the hall from the pantry and an unknown number of bullet holes in the pantry's ceiling tiles. Critics say those are the known environmental effects of the shooting. Add to those the wounds in the six victims... too many holes/marks for one 8-shot gun.

[ImeldaDavies]

Ah it was not a cop. It was a hotel security guard. How on earth then did Sirhan Sirhan shoot Kennedy in the back of his head. Giving Ayton the last word is an old formula for the Discovery channel. Sadly conspiracy is a cliche and a very sad but truthful one wake up everybody!!!!!!

[chmwood]

I agree with you completely! The History Channel is the same way, except they do it for the last quarter of the program!

[persinos]

The old corrupt cop/assassin trick. This was a mob/cia hit. It has become cliche.  Like the cop/assasin arriving early to relieve a guard detail guarding a witness in the hospital. Then the cop kills the witness. What puzzles me is that NO ONE noticed a cop pull out a gun and shoot RFK in the head.

[chmwood]

Would the mob guys be able to keep it secret? You know how quick those guys will roll over on their own family if it means avoiding jail time. I don't know about the security guard, but this does seem like some old school Julius Caesar/CIA-type work.

[Xenu]

There was a television journalist who testified to witnessing a security guard behind RFK pulling out a gun and firing. I can't recall his name but there is a recording of him calling his station immediately after the murder reporting what he'd seen. The security guard claims he pulled out a gun, fell, but did not fire.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

Don Schulman was a film runner for KNXT TV (now KCBS TV). He never testified in court. There's an audio recording of Schulman being interviewed by journalist Jeff Brent after the shooting. There's also video tape of Schulman being interviewed on camera, a bit later, by KNXT's Ruth Ashton.

[spritz0]

His name was THANE EUGENE CESAR, a CIA plant, he quickly moved to the Philippines after the assassination.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

While it seems quite possible that Cesar is today residing in the Philippines (something that this "Conspiracy Test" program claims), that doesn't mean Cesar "quickly" moved out of the U.S. immediately after the RFK assassination. In fact, certain books and articles seem to indicate he stayed in the U.S. for a considerable time after the murder. I myself am not convinced Cesar is today in the Philippines (he may be back in the U.S.) but I can't rule it out.

[Bowwowwowwowwow]

"What puzzles me is that NO ONE noticed a cop pull out a gun and shoot RFK in the head." Persinos, the guy in question wasn't an actual cop. He was a security guard employed by a private firm that was hired by the hotel.

[vydeoynkhorne]

never thought much about the second gun in rfk's death...other than maybe one in the ambulance, but this is meaty. good job

[johnlepo]

They give Ayton the last word, that is a bit of a cop out, given the undisputable evidence.

[MelDAyton]

Oh, don't take me seriously!