Wow this is like some frat boys playing in their garage. Aikido this is not. They need to forget everything they think they know and go to a dojo, sit, and with respect and open minds, learn what aikido is.
I just started learning Aikido since like 3 months ago and looking at this video makes me realized that me as a beginner I'm pretty good with my technics.
Was soll denn der Schwachsinn? Beide wären längst verstümmelt! Völlig unrealistisch, völlig schwachsinnige Techniken, hoffentlich kommt keiner der Schüler dieser Kampfsportlegastheniker je auf die Idee er könne sich mit dem Quatsch in einem Kampf behaupten! Verantwortungslos kann ich da nur sagen!
You should bow when you walk into the school and when you step onto the mat. But most folks only worry about when you step onto the mat. Look forward to seeing you again!
I really love what you guys are doing here. I started doing this type of thing against martial artist and to be honest, I didn't even know this type of thing existed until I saw a video from AikidoBob's page. I think the people who are giving low ratings have never tried this sort of thing and can't appreciated how hard it really is... 5 stars for you!
I'm not sure you can. He needs to learn aikido in the correct way and what he is being taught in corrections is probably not taught correctly nor is he spending the required time (practice time) to develop his skills as they need to be developed. So essentially he is right, the way he is being taught it is ineffective.
Oh, cool, I love the jo katas, that will be great fun. Matter of fact I was teaching them Tuesday night in class. They are excellent for developing your form. While you learn the kata, look for how the walks fit into the kata's movements. Gambatte!
You are very welcome. So why do you think won't you ever play tanto randori with a black belt? Most of us are nice people, not into hurting rookie players, we need the rookies to replace us old farts! So never say never and make sure you come to the Mansfield tornament in March, the first weekend, so you get a chance to practice randori. I'll make sure you only pay with nice folks who want to teach skills, not hurt people. Never know when you might get to go to Japan and play!!
I'm the guy in white...the first throw on the vid by Jeff (the guy in orange) was gyakyugameate (opposite side strike throw) number three from the 17.
define atemi...we use it all the time in tanto randori, however not as a fist, as the atemi waza from tomiki ryu. Maybe they don't look familiar to you in this format...
No, ATEMI is not 90% of aikido (though very useful). Avoidance, balance, and proper application I'd say make up 90%. Atemi is a good way to enter into the technique and find an opening for good application. Breaking balance is key and atemi is a great tool to achieve this.
And I'd watch your scoffs... your hmphing a 5th degree... and at 18 I really doubt you have much cred to do that.... perhaps I'm wrong.
ok aikido is not 90% atemy even when o-sensei ( morihei ueshiba ) sayd that... and im just 5th degree thats right but we dont have exams anymore...i wanted to go on 1st dan cuz my sensei told to...but my sensei doesnt live in our city anymore and we have new one...and dont look at age ... it doesnt mater how many yrs you have....its about how long you practice aikido and how hard you train...
I also know that I've been practicing Aikido since you were 7. I realize I still have ages to go, and know that I try not to blatantly criticize things I don't understand.
Read into what Ueshiba was saying, don't just take the face value of everything you read in some translation. There is a ton of ATEMI in what we do, you just don't understand it enough to see it. I was just after making you understand the limitations of thinking of atemi as literal striking
If you want to watch some great applications of atemi watch Gozo Shioda vids. My favorite is of him using his shoulders and upper back to hit someone grabbing him from behind, really works and applies the "aiki" priciple that Shishida sensei says was lost after WWII when kokyu was emphasized instead. As nolipse says atemi doesn't have to be with a fist, arm, whatever, you can hit with any portion of the body to generate a reaction/opening and then implement whatever technique is available
If you want to watch some great applications of atemi watch Gozo Shioda vids. My favorite is of him using his shoulders and upper back to hit someone grabbing him from behind, really works and applies the "aiki" priciple that Shishida sensei says was lost after WWII when kokyu was emphasized instead. As nolipse says atemi doesn't have to be with a fist, arm, whatever, you can hit with any portion of the body to generate a reaction/opening and then implement whatever technique is available
And yes, Uyeshiba did say that, but what it really meant is highly debated among folks who know a heck of a lot more about the history of aikido than i do.
Hello, I think the same problem as with the other videos - tori is moving too early, he tries to go after uke instead of letting him fully develop his attack. I would use very simple taisabaki - irimi tenkan, tenkan. With short and quick strikes it´s a bit hard to catch uke´s hand, then I would wait for a longer strike or would work with his head or legs - again, break his stability. Stay calm and let him attack, let him come closer. The first distance is OK, but timing could be better.
Unikad: please check out the new vids I posted of one of my students at the 2009 Tomiki internationals in Kyoto last month. They show well how the sport variety of the game works. No, it is not self defense and may even teach some bad habits, but there are some damn nice throws.
you can see in my videos, where we have fight on wooden tanto. may be you'll get some interesting and useful idea here. anyway good luck in yours way!
also, about taisabaki. i think its good add to it good hand movement and blocks. we have few things about that because fight only knife against knife. will make video.
Your videos are very inspiring. I'm not an aikidoka but your training methods are awesome. Hope you show more of the "aiki-boxing" videos with other tactics like kicking, stick, etc. More power!
I'm neither, the old fart is my father though (aikidobob). Typically throwing sumi from that position ends up in you being wrapped and Ushiro-ated to the floor. Jeff was fairly new and just practicing with Bob. I like going from an arm drag defense of the knife to the classic 14 to 15 switch across the body or going from Waki into sumi. Splits are optional, but when you can throw it like that you really get some momentum on the throw
Can't always count on the gi being there (and in sport it is illegal to grab it). Sumi is one of the most used b/c of the way a "stabber" (note: no slashing) has to strike. A personal favorite of mine.
Maybe the next step isn't to develop the arts more into a "practice with safety" mode, but to develop better protection gear to take it to the next level. I tried to copy once I was here, the Colombia Army's body armor they use for self-defense, a revolutionnary articulated armor able to simulate dislocations and breaks with sensors and alarms and measure impact or torsion force, but I almost got sued and arrested and thrown in their jails. I hate it because with it, you could do a lot more
What they did was to use this full-body armor, kind of like a riot cops gear armor but with thinner paddling and slimmer joint guards and cushioning, which have these "braces" thjat are programmed to bend and break, emitting a flash of light and sound and a small dust/smoke when you break the capsule, once you are able to exert the pressure and angle of force to break, dislocate or just tear something or when a hit goes above a given impact force, so you can go all out with them, it's amazing...
you can, for example,set my arm straight and hit me on the elbow to break it, or just press on it. In truth, the armor don't let me extend my arm fully, I still have some 3 degrees of angle before my arm is fully straight so if you hit me, the armor gives in, the joint brace breaks and a flash and beep starts going off, and inflates like an airbag inside it, and shocks me intermitently with a zap that leaves my arm fully numb and relaxed as if broken, but it is not, and you did use full force.
Very cool technology, I can see why they would not want you to copy and possibly export it. Never heard of any body armor like that before, except FIST gear, but that doesn't have all the bells and whistles you describe.
I agree, taking it to the next level using some sort of armor would indeed be best for reality training, and we use hockey helmets and gloves to practice tanto and weapon work, but have to always hold back when applying locks and some strikes though sport teaches power control.
Yes, Bob, you are right. Technology now has to go beyond just putting pads and plates to reduce impact force or prevent cuts, it has got to set a system to protect joints from torsion and bending in the harmful angles. The technology developed by the Colombian army is amazing, for the armor not just reduces the range of motion and places sensors to know when you are crossing the safety line and also set a level of force to activate it, but also use shocks to disable the target area for realism
I am going to try and snap some pictures of the armor because I have a small down time coming up to visit my friends on their Army base and see if my cellphone can get a couple cool pics of the elbow and shoulder joints and maybe a page of the manual they make their trainees copy and learn and the drawings they force them to make to learn the basic theory of angles and radians and force direction which is the basis of their martial arts SUCAM, which looks like the fight scenes of Fatal Contact
Cool, but be safe, no sense doing soap pick up patrol in a Columbian prison where you'd get to prqacticve self defense every dam day. :-) SUCAM sounds very interesting, you've mentioned it before. Good luck!!!
LOL...that's funny. Actually, they don't do that here, gays, homos and fags are always beaten up but nobody even touches them unless it is to lan a punch or kick or worse, Colombians hate perverts and child moelsters, rapists and the like get kileld within days of their conviction. But yeah, SUCAM is a study of human kinetics like Fran Soto's American Kempo Kinetics as well as Aikido/taijutsu koppo and kyusho jutsu and Kung Fu's Chin-na and dim mak with a very strong flow drills foundation.
I'll have to check out Fran Soto, never heard of him. Thanks for the name! As to the treatment os pedophiles and gays in prisons, interesting. In most of my very limited proison experience I've heard of gay inmates thriving and surviving in almost all prison societies.
Shit man, down there, rapists and pedophiles and the like get shanked every week...if they are lucky, i once heard of one they shoved a PVC tube up his behind and dropped, or pushed in burning coals and left him to die...ouch. Took him a whole week
In that case, that session is much better when compared to the majority of aikido knife defense practice I've seen. At least I see some intent on the part of uke to attack. I did aikido for many years before doing FMA and IMHO there is often a lack of intent on the part of uke and nage when doing tanto dori. Having said that, if I were still doing aikido with my experience in FMA, I would make changes to the way I'd train and my technique to increase my chances of survival on the street.
I know more than one martial artist that has linked FMA and aikido. I've played with FMA traps and aikido locks myself in free flow sparring drills. Peace to you.
Better than most knife training in aikido that I've seen. But you should take it to the next level and have the attacker slash and stab multiple times. And if the defender closes the distance, the attacker shouldn't just let it happen. The attacker has to keep striking at the defender. Rushing in like that while the attacker has the knife at ready will get you killed. You'll find that out soon enough when you get more serious with that knife training.
CT101: please see the below response to Koldztone and see our info to repeat: this is not self defense training, it s a a game, a sport played internationally, like tae kwan do and judo. Slashing is prohibited, and all stabs have to start from correct ma'ai and seichusen, very prescribed attack and defense.
For SD practice we put on hockey helmets and hockey gloves and go at it with slashing, close in attacks, multiple blades, atemi, etc. Very different to practice SD than play tanto randori.
My only bad comment is that the concept of frontal defense is useless against a knife...unless there's no other way and in this case, the techniques are basic, but not advanced or too useful, they would be better off dipping the knife in ink to see where they get hit and practice dissarms, but not go into grappling and close distance so easy, learn to deflect sideways for God's sake.
The real problem is that you don't understand the game, Koldztone. How you doing, BTW? We haven't spoken in a while. And it is a GAME (sport) we are practicing here, this is NOT self defense practice. The concept of the game/sport revolves around proper taisabaki (avoidance)and keriwaza (clean technique). Recent international rule changes make it so that all attack and defense has to happen from ma'ai in seichusen, lead left or right stances are not allowed, even less "practical". Ce la vie.
Hi Koldztone: to be clear, this is not self defense, this is sport. The concept is to stab only, no slashing, from seichusen at proper aikido ma'ai, and defend using correct taisabaki and 17 allowed techniques. The attacker can counter if two hands are on the arm, but only with five prescribed counter techniques. It is a very limited martial sport designed not to teach self defense but so set up the best position to apply keriwaza, clean aikido techniques.
Don't disagree, this martial sport has it drawbacks and it is rather hard to do well. But on the other hand it trains students to deal with resistant partners which no other styles of aikido do, at least not in a sport format.
Do you mean with the point of the knife pointing back towards the elbow and the edge forward? It is very effective and allowed in the games parameters with restrictions. That grip is most effective when used as a slashing attack and the game rules only allow for the knife to be used as a stabbing implement, not for slashing. So not as effective within the parameters of the game rules, but still useful.
Instead of a straight strike or thrust it comes down at an angle so it is very difficult to avoid some times, the taisabaki is different. The knife has to hit (in any type of strike) between the collar bone and waist, anywhere around the torso and if the arms are against the body stabbing the arm counts since it is assumed it would penetrate the body through arm. So the downward angular stab you get with the reverse grip is good for pinning someone to a spot, making it hard to turn fast.
Like winning is something new to you. Have a fantastic Aug. seminar. Down here it's just me a jo and a tree. Trying to make the paper so I can be your deshi. Aikido方法
thanks. Again, this is representative of a game, a competition event, in which the scoring instrument of the attacker is a round foam tube as shown here. But your suggestions are good and I'll try them as some point when doing self defense drills.
Yep, I guess we have upgraded and prospered a bit, LOL. But those mats are still rock hard in winter time!! Ok, you got me too curious, who is this that knows how it was in the old school days at the Black Walnut?
Ah the cloaked mystery of the net. Think about a hippy boy who's goal was not to let you or Mike throw me into the beam that supported the loft. Thankfully your koshinage is powerful yet controlled.
Nitsud san, it is good to hear that you have found our videos, we have managed to engender conversation, though much of it a total waste of time! I thought it was you, who the hell else would remember how the barn looked in the days of old, the Jurassic period of the Black Walnut. BTW, Ian, Josh(he started as an eighth grader 5 years go and is now a dam big 20 year old shodan) and I won first place in men's team tanto two weekends ago in Denver. Go figure.
522 and 733 was beautiful.Guy in white may like to try switching stances from left to right lead.This creates more distance and slows down a faster opponent.Also,I don't think it is wise to chase and skill knife welder but guy in orange seems to pull it off
This some great stuff.Nice work.The guy in orange is fast .The guy in white is powerful but should work more on side steping in different forms instead of always trying to pull off the k0-tee-geye-sh move on such a fast opponent.Also the guy in white may try using his forearms to deflect attacks instead of trying to catch the wrist of the guy in orange is so dam quick.But still wonderful work.You both rock
yea dodging the attacker following by a counterattack is the best thing to do, im doing this sport called jigeogaeshido and there it is the main thing you have to do
It isn't self defense, it's a competition event. We agree, it is not realistic, it is test of principles under duress within a set of rules: to wit, a game. As to the complete stranger commment, that is a weird statement, how many martial artists/practioners go up to complete strangers and ask them to attack them. Interesting comment, but weird.
An uncooperative attacker is always a very good idea in training but those 2 would have been killed like 200 times each if this a real knife.
This is because they play "the uncooperative" a little too much, as the try to stab but quickly withdrawing as they know the defender's techniques. As a result the attacks look a bit unrealistic
Thanks, but this is NOT done as a self defense exercise. This is a game that is played for Tomiki competition. The game has specific rules and you get points for making contact with the "knife", but you can only attack in certain ways. It's mostly to help us learn to get some body movement, not as a knife self defense exercise.
i agree im not very convinced that stuff works when he practicly puts his body in line of the knife, i dont think akido is a bad martial art i just think those 2 are not practicing it correctly or something :S
It's practice for a game, not a self defense drill. So yes, we push the edge of the envelope and try things you wouldn't do in practical edged weapon defense practice or application.
You're always going to do things very differently in a game situation that you would in real life. In real life, the other guy would look for the nearest object to at least match the knife and defend himself, or pull a gun and shoot the other guy. This is a game. We get to do stupid things that have no self defense value b/c it works for the comp.
Can someone explain to me the difference between AIKIDO and HAPKIDO? Also a good friend of mine was saying that Aikido has its roots in Shinto (Asian religion). Can anyone clarify this?
Both Aikido and Hapkido have their roots in Daito-Ryu (at least as I understand it). Hapkido has retained more strikes and kicks and is philosophically different than Aikido. The underlying philosophical principle in Aikido is Harmony. Hapkido is more of a strict self-defense art.
O-Sensei, Morihei Ueshiba was a member of a religion called Oomoto-Kyo which has roots in Shinto, but was developed as a way to unify all religions. It was O-Sensei's devotion to Oomoto that made him move Aikido from a hard art to a softer art with more philosophy attached to it. At least, this is my understanding. There is a good article on Oomoto on Wikipedia or you can just google it to find out more.
To add to SM's comments, HAPKIDO is a Koren martial art based on the marriage of Tae Kwan Do and Aikido like grappling. The word Hapkido means the same thing in Korean as Aikido does in Japanese, the "way of harmonizing energy" . Hapkido and Tae Kwan Do are both post WWII MAs developed in Korea based on the strong Japanese influence during the 20th century in Korea.
Ive practiced Tomiki Aikido since 1975 every time people see Tanto Randori training you hear that its not good for self defence and could be dangerous. The tanto in sport is only used as a means of attack. If two kendoka were armed with real sword neither would have any arms left. Kendo Shinei were designed for sport as is the cloth or rubber tanto in Tomiki Shodokan Shidokan Aikido.
Where in England are you from? I've met Bob Jones, Marco Crispini and many other tomiki players from around the old country many times, all good folks.
Some of what you do is nice for a drill, but if you look honestly 00:45 to 00:55 would get you hurt or killed, running in on the knife 1:15 you get stabbed, and so on. So stop doing the compitition, if someone came at you with a knife your body would react like this and I am sorry to say but if the guy had 6 months in escrima he would kill you, and quickly.
Glad you enjoyed the resistance based strike training we do with gloves. tbs: have you posted to all TKD FOLKS to stop practicing olympic sparring bcse it's unrealistic vis a vis street fighting or all MMA fighters bcse cage fighting is not at realistic vav a gang fight, etc? THIS IS NOT SELF DEFENSE TRAINING!!!!! IT IS A SPORT WITH RULES!!!!! Therefore stop practicing FMA as it makes you unprepared for finding IEDs in a modern combat zone. Same logic.
screw sports with rules this is budo granted i have respect for olympic tkd fighters and mma ppl but fuck tryin to put it in a box grrr.... any ways good training put up some more videos eh?
Well, Tomiki is "sport (kyogi) aikido", so the basis to the whole system is to push the sport aspect as Kano did with Judo. However, I do agree that budo is more important than sport and rules limit functionality. We'll put more clips up as we get time and material.
I actually don't disagree with your comments regarding the "tanto game" we play. If you go to "way of harmony" podcasts I recently conducted an interview with a Tomiki practitioner where we discussed how ramdori is a game to try and improve your aikido techniques within a set of parameters, it is not self defense training. No sane person would enter a confrontation against an armed attacker empty handed, they would arm as soon as possible if confronted by a knife wielding attacker.
Also, because the attacker can only do one move, no matter how fast he is or what level (head high, waist high, groin/leg) you know pretty much where he will be. It makes for a good drill, but do not let success at this game fool you. When I pick up a knife, all I do is slice, and if I stab it is when up close, when they do some things you do, like getting close or trying to wrestle.
I like the pressure cooking aikiboxing stuff but this is dumb and dangerous. For a few reasons: The slice, which is illegal in this game and therefore ignored here is harder to defend against and is more likely to occur, unless your in prison. The slice is more deadly than the stab, except for vital areas. People have been stabbed 20 times and lived, but a slice across certain points and you die in minutes or even seconds.
I practice different skills sets and responses for different situations, and this is not intended for self defense. I watch Ray Floros training vids in terms of kinfe SD a lot. Very intereesting, love to expand my understanding of FMA for that purpose. We are Tomiki aikidoka, playing the games is part of getting ahead, so we practice specifically for those games. Cheers and thanks for watching.
No, the "tanto" does not leave a mark like pencil or pen, though that would help judges. A direct strike with the tip of the "knife" causing the foam "blade" to bend is a point strike, what would be a considered a penetrating or lethal stab. Slashing is not allowed, only straight thrusts, like in fencing. In tournaments there are judges who score the points and decide what is valid strike.
Some very nice techniques here, shame the odd one or two would be disallowed under comp rules, ie goign down onto both knees, and Kote-Gaeshi is usually a very hard oen to get on in competition, also there are a fair few tatnto strikes that would not be counted as the tanto was not traveling forwards but other than that its a nice video with some interesting variations. Happy training.
Thanks for the comments, good points, I can tell you know tanto randori rules. Who do you train with in England? We've met Bob Jones, Marco Crispni, etc. over the years. Happy training to you, too
Thank you very much, and well I had to try and learn quickly what to do and what not to do, as the first real competition our club entered was the National Kyu Grade at Bisham Abbey in 2006. I train in the south east with Jim Dempster, and have also met Bob and have had the fortune of having had two of the squad members Uke for me for a grading once, cant remembe if it was for my 1st or 2nd Kyu gradaing mind as it was a few years ago.
In the south east, sorry my English geography sucks but I can picture where you are more or less. I've never met sensei Demspter, at least to my knowledge. Most of my contact has been with folks from the north/northwest for whatever reason, Bob, Marco, Dave Feilding, Vonda his wife, Phil Bird...others whose names escape me. Met most of them back in 1992and see them at internationals mostly. Are you planning on going to Kyoto in 2009?
A fair few of those names sound familiar, and although I still remember the majority of the COmpetition rules I personally dont enter competitions as id still preffer to get more training under my belt before entering the competition side of things again, although I would love to go and watch at some point I doubt it will financially viable to go and see many anytime soon. The downside to being a (currenlty) unemployed martial artist haha.
one attacks with knife the other is allowed to use one of seventeen basic techniques to try to "blend" with the attack. check out the 17s in tomiki and that should give you an idea of which techniques are allowed. very tough game. check it out in real life if you ever have a chance!
Shit? Hmmm, sorry to disagree with your ignorant shit, please read up on Kenji Tomiki, his studies with Uyeshiba and Kano, the development of sport aikido and get educated on what is and isn't really aikido. Appears you need lots of educating. Maybe you can visit our friends in Rio for lesson on aikido and manners if you are ever in that city. Seems you can use both lessons.
If you look down through some of the other comments, this has been covered many times. This is a game to help develop good timing and taisabaki from a committed and uncooperative attack. We have a good interview about this on our usaikido site. I would suggest learning some more about Tomiki Aikido before jumping to conclusions.
This kind of training is so dangerous. People stab wildly when they have a knife, getting cut with a knife even the tiniest amount will send someone into shock, which almost entirely negates their ability to fight back.
Current research highlights that knifes are more deadly that guns; more accurate, deeper wounds, high fatality rate. Ths form of simulated training, regardless of it's 'game-esque' nature is shown to severely hamper a person's ability to survive a real knife attack.
Please don't misunderstand... this is NOT self defense training. This is not "game-esque" it is a game, with VERY specific rules for the attacker (with the knife) and the defender. The attacker does not use attacks that are very realistic in real life. The purpose of the game is to learn timing off of a forward motion. This is NOT knife self defense training. I've heard that the best defense against a knife is a really fast 100 yard dash! Thanks for the comment.
Just like taekwando sparring does not allow kicks to knees and arm bars and chokes this game is limited by rules. We practice kinife self defense in a very different context. Yes, a blade can be very lethal, in some ways more than a firearm. I'm interested in the research you reference, can you give me specifics on who conducted it, where I can read it? Thanks.
You are absolutely right about that. Of course, those rules were designed to protect the players, but they can take the edge off of the reality of the situation. That's part of the reason that Bob and I started playing with Aiki-Boxing (you can find those vids here on youtube). The main objective of the game is to practice timing off of an attack. Thanks for the comments.
No diasagreement on either point. the game is based on showing good taisabaki and coountering with very controlled specified techniques. It is fun and difficult, but not realistic by any stretch. All good Tomiki players know that and practice self defense training against a blade in a whole different context.
Thanks, your observations are much appreciated. Do you ever watch the Floro vids (an Australian fencer and FMA practioner)? Check him out, he does some really neat knife training I am wanting to experiment with. He does a lot of facial attacks and uses his "tanto" in a much more realistic manner. And it looks like loads of fun! I just bought hockey helmets and gloves so I can try it out.
Hey screw the nagative crap! Good for you guys for training, hope you're having fun along the way. Sharing naturaly brings critisizm. I hope you won't let that stop you. Deep down it's all about yourself anyways, fuck the rest of us.......
Thanks, MP. I try to ignore most of the real crap heads but every now and then give in and do some verbal sparring practice. And you re very right, it's always about getting better and having fun, not about what others think of us. We also have some "aikiboxing" videos that really have gotten us some heavy flaming, check them out if you are interested.
This is actually a form of competition in Tomiki Aikido. It's not done as a form of self defense (hence the reason we don't seem as worried about getting stabbed). It was mostly designed to help get timing off of a stab. Thanks for the comment!
As Jeff said it's a sparring game, not real self defense practice. There are an entire set of drills that are built to teach taisabaki, timing and closing the gap that teach skills relevant to the game. Go to any Tomiki aikido site for more information or send me an email and I'll give you more information about the drills involved.
Read your profile and maybe you will understand. And if it is so lame then why make the comment? What martial arts experience have you got in life to base this comment on? If you have a real constructive comment based on some understanding of Shodokan aikido and tanto randori then make it. If not then go play with other wanna be lawyers in their school yard games.
lol. Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing, Tai Kwon Do and Boxing. That enough marital arts experience for you? And as far as making a comment on knife defense I have been assaulted with a knife and the defense I saw them using would get you killed irl.
that's a good start. In case you haven't read the prior postings and explanations it's a competition game, not self defense training. No more than te Kwan do sparring is real self defense or BJJ grappling is waht you would use in a multiples opponents street fight. I agree I would not protect myself from a blade the way we play the game, not realistic. Enjoy law school.
I look at martial arts as a way to train your mind and body but also as a way to save your own life from those that would take it. In my opinion it makes no sense to train in a way that doesn't reflect a real life situation. You must be prepared at all times.
We all train in different ways for differnt situations. The video is competition training strictly. I train for self defense, and I also practice BJJ to expand the grappling skills I learned from judo back in the 60's (I'm just a tad older than you, Cubiche, yo soy Boricua, BTW). True, there are multiple purposes for MA training, but when folks make off hand remarks about what they don't understand it makes me question their knowledge base and maturity.
Yes, we did. Man, he was a ton of fun, he is dynamite in a dogi. Plus I got to spend lots of time talking to him about aikido and life as we rode back and forth to the Cleveland airport. Do you practice/study with him regularly?
years ago I did, I was accepted as uchi deschi in 1992 but wasn't able to do it because of finaces. Now I train under toshishiro Obata who was uchi deschi for Gozo shioda. I still remain in contact with Blok sensei but hope to vist the Chudokan this winter, I'm from Michigan so the drive isn't bad.
Did youo go to Summer Synergy? Blok invited me but it was right after the internationals and I wasn't able to go. Sounds like it would have been a great time. I'm in Ohio, so it's not that far either. Where is Obata's dojo?
This is not done as a self defense excercise... it's actually a "game" that Tomiki players use in competition. I'm sorry that you feel like it's "stupit"...
actually, if you watch some older footage of O-Sensei, when he was doing randori, he was hopping quite a bit! Search for this y4_3TdHBAvA in youtube and you'll see what I mean. Look at him during the multiple attack portion. He's hopping all the time. Thanks for the comments. We really appreciate it.
i apologize for that 'green belt' thing..we don't change the white one until 2.kyu in my dojo but i now see that this situation varies in different dojos..in Aikido, you know, 'the more you learn, the less you know'..however, if you call these 'tecniques' (in this video) 'Aikido', i know absolutely NOTHING about Aikido..the positions, the movements etc..you're right about that..i wish you good luck and success..
Wow this is like some frat boys playing in their garage. Aikido this is not. They need to forget everything they think they know and go to a dojo, sit, and with respect and open minds, learn what aikido is.
AkouBudo 2 days ago
I just started learning Aikido since like 3 months ago and looking at this video makes me realized that me as a beginner I'm pretty good with my technics.
saurylovesu 3 months ago
Was soll denn der Schwachsinn? Beide wären längst verstümmelt! Völlig unrealistisch, völlig schwachsinnige Techniken, hoffentlich kommt keiner der Schüler dieser Kampfsportlegastheniker je auf die Idee er könne sich mit dem Quatsch in einem Kampf behaupten! Verantwortungslos kann ich da nur sagen!
titusbir 11 months ago
poor international champs...i hope they realize this type of training sucks. The fundamentals went out the window
bushinkan101 1 year ago
@bushinkan101 once again, talk...show me video of your skills.
AikidoBob 1 year ago
these are 6yr olds pretending to do aikido..disgrace
bushinkan101 1 year ago
@bushinkan101 Really? Show me your stuff, I've trained international champs, what have you done, pendejo?
AikidoBob 1 year ago
wow. This is really good training. Keeping it realistic to sharpen your skills.
TheRCortez 1 year ago
@TheRCortez thanks, this is sport practice, not self defense though.
AikidoBob 1 year ago
You should bow when you walk into the school and when you step onto the mat. But most folks only worry about when you step onto the mat. Look forward to seeing you again!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
WHYYYY is it the week I'm in NYC... WHHYYYYY???
Miss you guys sooo frigin much right now.
nolispe 2 years ago
Miss you too man, we will have you with us in spirit. Stay strong!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Cool, can I see some toshu randori!?
theshninja 2 years ago
I'll see if we can find some video to post.
AikidoBob 2 years ago
I really love what you guys are doing here. I started doing this type of thing against martial artist and to be honest, I didn't even know this type of thing existed until I saw a video from AikidoBob's page. I think the people who are giving low ratings have never tried this sort of thing and can't appreciated how hard it really is... 5 stars for you!
kitkat39 2 years ago
@kitkat39 thanks, go look for a Tomiki club and get in on the fun
AikidoBob 2 years ago
@itachi123100 H,
I'm not sure you can. He needs to learn aikido in the correct way and what he is being taught in corrections is probably not taught correctly nor is he spending the required time (practice time) to develop his skills as they need to be developed. So essentially he is right, the way he is being taught it is ineffective.
AikidoBob 2 years ago
good luck on your test and I hope you can make the seminar and tournament
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Hey Itachi:
Yes, we are doing a seminar/tournament the first week of March here in Mansfield, details to follow. And congrats on testing!!!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
i think the reason it looks like they are both having trouble is because they are both real good
ThrowedAzzGangsta 2 years ago
@ThrowedAzzGangsta
thanks!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Very cool, you are ICHIBAN!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Gambatte means "keep trying your best", or "fight on"...you yell it to team mates or friends just before or during a match or a test...
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Oh, cool, I love the jo katas, that will be great fun. Matter of fact I was teaching them Tuesday night in class. They are excellent for developing your form. While you learn the kata, look for how the walks fit into the kata's movements. Gambatte!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
all in due time...all in due time. :-)
AikidoBob 2 years ago
You are very welcome. So why do you think won't you ever play tanto randori with a black belt? Most of us are nice people, not into hurting rookie players, we need the rookies to replace us old farts! So never say never and make sure you come to the Mansfield tornament in March, the first weekend, so you get a chance to practice randori. I'll make sure you only pay with nice folks who want to teach skills, not hurt people. Never know when you might get to go to Japan and play!!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
I'm the guy in white...the first throw on the vid by Jeff (the guy in orange) was gyakyugameate (opposite side strike throw) number three from the 17.
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Great!!! By the way,Moe's last name is Stevens, not Johnson. :-) And aigameate, BTW. But good going, I'm impressed, keep at ti!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
hmph....to bad you dont use atemy....atemy is 90% of aikido...
SNAKEgokuVERGIL 2 years ago
define atemi...we use it all the time in tanto randori, however not as a fist, as the atemi waza from tomiki ryu. Maybe they don't look familiar to you in this format...
AikidoBob 2 years ago
No, ATEMI is not 90% of aikido (though very useful). Avoidance, balance, and proper application I'd say make up 90%. Atemi is a good way to enter into the technique and find an opening for good application. Breaking balance is key and atemi is a great tool to achieve this.
And I'd watch your scoffs... your hmphing a 5th degree... and at 18 I really doubt you have much cred to do that.... perhaps I'm wrong.
I'm sure he'd be glad to teach you though :-D
nolispe 2 years ago
ok aikido is not 90% atemy even when o-sensei ( morihei ueshiba ) sayd that... and im just 5th degree thats right but we dont have exams anymore...i wanted to go on 1st dan cuz my sensei told to...but my sensei doesnt live in our city anymore and we have new one...and dont look at age ... it doesnt mater how many yrs you have....its about how long you practice aikido and how hard you train...
SNAKEgokuVERGIL 2 years ago
lol, I know who O-sensei is.
I also know that I've been practicing Aikido since you were 7. I realize I still have ages to go, and know that I try not to blatantly criticize things I don't understand.
Read into what Ueshiba was saying, don't just take the face value of everything you read in some translation. There is a ton of ATEMI in what we do, you just don't understand it enough to see it. I was just after making you understand the limitations of thinking of atemi as literal striking
nolispe 2 years ago
If you want to watch some great applications of atemi watch Gozo Shioda vids. My favorite is of him using his shoulders and upper back to hit someone grabbing him from behind, really works and applies the "aiki" priciple that Shishida sensei says was lost after WWII when kokyu was emphasized instead. As nolipse says atemi doesn't have to be with a fist, arm, whatever, you can hit with any portion of the body to generate a reaction/opening and then implement whatever technique is available
AikidoBob 2 years ago
If you want to watch some great applications of atemi watch Gozo Shioda vids. My favorite is of him using his shoulders and upper back to hit someone grabbing him from behind, really works and applies the "aiki" priciple that Shishida sensei says was lost after WWII when kokyu was emphasized instead. As nolipse says atemi doesn't have to be with a fist, arm, whatever, you can hit with any portion of the body to generate a reaction/opening and then implement whatever technique is available
AikidoBob 2 years ago
And yes, Uyeshiba did say that, but what it really meant is highly debated among folks who know a heck of a lot more about the history of aikido than i do.
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Hello, I think the same problem as with the other videos - tori is moving too early, he tries to go after uke instead of letting him fully develop his attack. I would use very simple taisabaki - irimi tenkan, tenkan. With short and quick strikes it´s a bit hard to catch uke´s hand, then I would wait for a longer strike or would work with his head or legs - again, break his stability. Stay calm and let him attack, let him come closer. The first distance is OK, but timing could be better.
unikad 2 years ago
Unikad: please check out the new vids I posted of one of my students at the 2009 Tomiki internationals in Kyoto last month. They show well how the sport variety of the game works. No, it is not self defense and may even teach some bad habits, but there are some damn nice throws.
AikidoBob 2 years ago
wow! great work for aikido. right way. but as we can see, weaponless man has got a lot of tanto hits.
samuraybo1 2 years ago
Thanks! Yes, tori gets lots of hits, that is why taisabaki is so important. Will you be in Kyoto?
AikidoBob 2 years ago
sorry, but not so soon :)
you can see in my videos, where we have fight on wooden tanto. may be you'll get some interesting and useful idea here. anyway good luck in yours way!
samuraybo1 2 years ago
also, about taisabaki. i think its good add to it good hand movement and blocks. we have few things about that because fight only knife against knife. will make video.
samuraybo1 2 years ago
Your videos are very inspiring. I'm not an aikidoka but your training methods are awesome. Hope you show more of the "aiki-boxing" videos with other tactics like kicking, stick, etc. More power!
Bheehappy 2 years ago
Thanks for the kind words, we should be making more vids this summer. I hope your training goes well!!!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
I'm neither, the old fart is my father though (aikidobob). Typically throwing sumi from that position ends up in you being wrapped and Ushiro-ated to the floor. Jeff was fairly new and just practicing with Bob. I like going from an arm drag defense of the knife to the classic 14 to 15 switch across the body or going from Waki into sumi. Splits are optional, but when you can throw it like that you really get some momentum on the throw
nolispe 2 years ago
Can't always count on the gi being there (and in sport it is illegal to grab it). Sumi is one of the most used b/c of the way a "stabber" (note: no slashing) has to strike. A personal favorite of mine.
nolispe 2 years ago
I have to say, it is brilliant that we are the number one google search for "tanto randori" :-p
nolispe 2 years ago
Yes it is!!! Aren't we special!!! Mom says yes we are! Somos especiales!!!
AikidoBob 2 years ago
Maybe the next step isn't to develop the arts more into a "practice with safety" mode, but to develop better protection gear to take it to the next level. I tried to copy once I was here, the Colombia Army's body armor they use for self-defense, a revolutionnary articulated armor able to simulate dislocations and breaks with sensors and alarms and measure impact or torsion force, but I almost got sued and arrested and thrown in their jails. I hate it because with it, you could do a lot more
Koldztone 3 years ago
What they did was to use this full-body armor, kind of like a riot cops gear armor but with thinner paddling and slimmer joint guards and cushioning, which have these "braces" thjat are programmed to bend and break, emitting a flash of light and sound and a small dust/smoke when you break the capsule, once you are able to exert the pressure and angle of force to break, dislocate or just tear something or when a hit goes above a given impact force, so you can go all out with them, it's amazing...
Koldztone 3 years ago
you can, for example,set my arm straight and hit me on the elbow to break it, or just press on it. In truth, the armor don't let me extend my arm fully, I still have some 3 degrees of angle before my arm is fully straight so if you hit me, the armor gives in, the joint brace breaks and a flash and beep starts going off, and inflates like an airbag inside it, and shocks me intermitently with a zap that leaves my arm fully numb and relaxed as if broken, but it is not, and you did use full force.
Koldztone 3 years ago
Very cool technology, I can see why they would not want you to copy and possibly export it. Never heard of any body armor like that before, except FIST gear, but that doesn't have all the bells and whistles you describe.
I agree, taking it to the next level using some sort of armor would indeed be best for reality training, and we use hockey helmets and gloves to practice tanto and weapon work, but have to always hold back when applying locks and some strikes though sport teaches power control.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Yes, Bob, you are right. Technology now has to go beyond just putting pads and plates to reduce impact force or prevent cuts, it has got to set a system to protect joints from torsion and bending in the harmful angles. The technology developed by the Colombian army is amazing, for the armor not just reduces the range of motion and places sensors to know when you are crossing the safety line and also set a level of force to activate it, but also use shocks to disable the target area for realism
Koldztone 3 years ago
I am going to try and snap some pictures of the armor because I have a small down time coming up to visit my friends on their Army base and see if my cellphone can get a couple cool pics of the elbow and shoulder joints and maybe a page of the manual they make their trainees copy and learn and the drawings they force them to make to learn the basic theory of angles and radians and force direction which is the basis of their martial arts SUCAM, which looks like the fight scenes of Fatal Contact
Koldztone 3 years ago
Cool, but be safe, no sense doing soap pick up patrol in a Columbian prison where you'd get to prqacticve self defense every dam day. :-) SUCAM sounds very interesting, you've mentioned it before. Good luck!!!
AikidoBob 3 years ago
LOL...that's funny. Actually, they don't do that here, gays, homos and fags are always beaten up but nobody even touches them unless it is to lan a punch or kick or worse, Colombians hate perverts and child moelsters, rapists and the like get kileld within days of their conviction. But yeah, SUCAM is a study of human kinetics like Fran Soto's American Kempo Kinetics as well as Aikido/taijutsu koppo and kyusho jutsu and Kung Fu's Chin-na and dim mak with a very strong flow drills foundation.
Koldztone 3 years ago
I'll have to check out Fran Soto, never heard of him. Thanks for the name! As to the treatment os pedophiles and gays in prisons, interesting. In most of my very limited proison experience I've heard of gay inmates thriving and surviving in almost all prison societies.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Shit man, down there, rapists and pedophiles and the like get shanked every week...if they are lucky, i once heard of one they shoved a PVC tube up his behind and dropped, or pushed in burning coals and left him to die...ouch. Took him a whole week
Koldztone 3 years ago
Ouch indeed...thanks for sharing that image! LOL!!!!
AikidoBob 3 years ago
In that case, that session is much better when compared to the majority of aikido knife defense practice I've seen. At least I see some intent on the part of uke to attack. I did aikido for many years before doing FMA and IMHO there is often a lack of intent on the part of uke and nage when doing tanto dori. Having said that, if I were still doing aikido with my experience in FMA, I would make changes to the way I'd train and my technique to increase my chances of survival on the street.
counterterror101 3 years ago
I know more than one martial artist that has linked FMA and aikido. I've played with FMA traps and aikido locks myself in free flow sparring drills. Peace to you.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Better than most knife training in aikido that I've seen. But you should take it to the next level and have the attacker slash and stab multiple times. And if the defender closes the distance, the attacker shouldn't just let it happen. The attacker has to keep striking at the defender. Rushing in like that while the attacker has the knife at ready will get you killed. You'll find that out soon enough when you get more serious with that knife training.
counterterror101 3 years ago
CT101: please see the below response to Koldztone and see our info to repeat: this is not self defense training, it s a a game, a sport played internationally, like tae kwan do and judo. Slashing is prohibited, and all stabs have to start from correct ma'ai and seichusen, very prescribed attack and defense.
For SD practice we put on hockey helmets and hockey gloves and go at it with slashing, close in attacks, multiple blades, atemi, etc. Very different to practice SD than play tanto randori.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
My only bad comment is that the concept of frontal defense is useless against a knife...unless there's no other way and in this case, the techniques are basic, but not advanced or too useful, they would be better off dipping the knife in ink to see where they get hit and practice dissarms, but not go into grappling and close distance so easy, learn to deflect sideways for God's sake.
Koldztone 3 years ago
The real problem is that you don't understand the game, Koldztone. How you doing, BTW? We haven't spoken in a while. And it is a GAME (sport) we are practicing here, this is NOT self defense practice. The concept of the game/sport revolves around proper taisabaki (avoidance)and keriwaza (clean technique). Recent international rule changes make it so that all attack and defense has to happen from ma'ai in seichusen, lead left or right stances are not allowed, even less "practical". Ce la vie.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Hi Koldztone: to be clear, this is not self defense, this is sport. The concept is to stab only, no slashing, from seichusen at proper aikido ma'ai, and defend using correct taisabaki and 17 allowed techniques. The attacker can counter if two hands are on the arm, but only with five prescribed counter techniques. It is a very limited martial sport designed not to teach self defense but so set up the best position to apply keriwaza, clean aikido techniques.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
AikidoBob, i know a sport fight isn't the same as an all-out combat but it should aim to preserve the realism and difficulties of a real situation
Koldztone 3 years ago
Don't disagree, this martial sport has it drawbacks and it is rather hard to do well. But on the other hand it trains students to deal with resistant partners which no other styles of aikido do, at least not in a sport format.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
what if the person holds the knife blade down in their fist? Isn't that the effective way to hold a knife?
inthefade 3 years ago
Do you mean with the point of the knife pointing back towards the elbow and the edge forward? It is very effective and allowed in the games parameters with restrictions. That grip is most effective when used as a slashing attack and the game rules only allow for the knife to be used as a stabbing implement, not for slashing. So not as effective within the parameters of the game rules, but still useful.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Interesting. I'd be interested to see how it plays out differently.
inthefade 3 years ago
Instead of a straight strike or thrust it comes down at an angle so it is very difficult to avoid some times, the taisabaki is different. The knife has to hit (in any type of strike) between the collar bone and waist, anywhere around the torso and if the arms are against the body stabbing the arm counts since it is assumed it would penetrate the body through arm. So the downward angular stab you get with the reverse grip is good for pinning someone to a spot, making it hard to turn fast.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Like winning is something new to you. Have a fantastic Aug. seminar. Down here it's just me a jo and a tree. Trying to make the paper so I can be your deshi. Aikido方法
DASusee 3 years ago
also have you guys tried working again the flat of the blade?that is using your body or forearam against the flat part of the blade
eddiedaskull 3 years ago
there is no flat of the blade in a competition tanto, it is round foam so can't do that. Will have to get a wooden or rubber knife to try that.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Try it with an alumium training blade.Also tando knives are single bladed and that also can be used to your advantage
eddiedaskull 3 years ago
thanks. Again, this is representative of a game, a competition event, in which the scoring instrument of the attacker is a round foam tube as shown here. But your suggestions are good and I'll try them as some point when doing self defense drills.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
I have to say times are changing. There use to be no cushions on those walls and a much harder floor mat. Still fast though. Great video. Thanks
DASusee 3 years ago
Yep, I guess we have upgraded and prospered a bit, LOL. But those mats are still rock hard in winter time!! Ok, you got me too curious, who is this that knows how it was in the old school days at the Black Walnut?
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Ah the cloaked mystery of the net. Think about a hippy boy who's goal was not to let you or Mike throw me into the beam that supported the loft. Thankfully your koshinage is powerful yet controlled.
DASusee 3 years ago
Nitsud san, it is good to hear that you have found our videos, we have managed to engender conversation, though much of it a total waste of time! I thought it was you, who the hell else would remember how the barn looked in the days of old, the Jurassic period of the Black Walnut. BTW, Ian, Josh(he started as an eighth grader 5 years go and is now a dam big 20 year old shodan) and I won first place in men's team tanto two weekends ago in Denver. Go figure.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
522 and 733 was beautiful.Guy in white may like to try switching stances from left to right lead.This creates more distance and slows down a faster opponent.Also,I don't think it is wise to chase and skill knife welder but guy in orange seems to pull it off
eddiedaskull 3 years ago
This some great stuff.Nice work.The guy in orange is fast .The guy in white is powerful but should work more on side steping in different forms instead of always trying to pull off the k0-tee-geye-sh move on such a fast opponent.Also the guy in white may try using his forearms to deflect attacks instead of trying to catch the wrist of the guy in orange is so dam quick.But still wonderful work.You both rock
eddiedaskull 3 years ago
yea dodging the attacker following by a counterattack is the best thing to do, im doing this sport called jigeogaeshido and there it is the main thing you have to do
L3viZzz 3 years ago
je moet uit de baan van de tanto en dan pas een tegenaanval en niet meteen
L3viZzz 3 years ago
Are you saying we should stay outside the arch of the tanto and counterattack after the stab??
AikidoBob 3 years ago
The only way to make this realistic is to get a complete stranger to attack the guy with a fake knife
gustard33 3 years ago
It isn't self defense, it's a competition event. We agree, it is not realistic, it is test of principles under duress within a set of rules: to wit, a game. As to the complete stranger commment, that is a weird statement, how many martial artists/practioners go up to complete strangers and ask them to attack them. Interesting comment, but weird.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
An uncooperative attacker is always a very good idea in training but those 2 would have been killed like 200 times each if this a real knife.
This is because they play "the uncooperative" a little too much, as the try to stab but quickly withdrawing as they know the defender's techniques. As a result the attacks look a bit unrealistic
priapus26 3 years ago
Thanks, but this is NOT done as a self defense exercise. This is a game that is played for Tomiki competition. The game has specific rules and you get points for making contact with the "knife", but you can only attack in certain ways. It's mostly to help us learn to get some body movement, not as a knife self defense exercise.
skinnymonkey 3 years ago
i agree im not very convinced that stuff works when he practicly puts his body in line of the knife, i dont think akido is a bad martial art i just think those 2 are not practicing it correctly or something :S
daleyy1234 3 years ago
It's practice for a game, not a self defense drill. So yes, we push the edge of the envelope and try things you wouldn't do in practical edged weapon defense practice or application.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
You're always going to do things very differently in a game situation that you would in real life. In real life, the other guy would look for the nearest object to at least match the knife and defend himself, or pull a gun and shoot the other guy. This is a game. We get to do stupid things that have no self defense value b/c it works for the comp.
nolispe 3 years ago
Can someone explain to me the difference between AIKIDO and HAPKIDO? Also a good friend of mine was saying that Aikido has its roots in Shinto (Asian religion). Can anyone clarify this?
GreenBeret021 3 years ago
Both Aikido and Hapkido have their roots in Daito-Ryu (at least as I understand it). Hapkido has retained more strikes and kicks and is philosophically different than Aikido. The underlying philosophical principle in Aikido is Harmony. Hapkido is more of a strict self-defense art.
skinnymonkey 3 years ago
O-Sensei, Morihei Ueshiba was a member of a religion called Oomoto-Kyo which has roots in Shinto, but was developed as a way to unify all religions. It was O-Sensei's devotion to Oomoto that made him move Aikido from a hard art to a softer art with more philosophy attached to it. At least, this is my understanding. There is a good article on Oomoto on Wikipedia or you can just google it to find out more.
skinnymonkey 3 years ago
To add to SM's comments, HAPKIDO is a Koren martial art based on the marriage of Tae Kwan Do and Aikido like grappling. The word Hapkido means the same thing in Korean as Aikido does in Japanese, the "way of harmonizing energy" . Hapkido and Tae Kwan Do are both post WWII MAs developed in Korea based on the strong Japanese influence during the 20th century in Korea.
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Ive practiced Tomiki Aikido since 1975 every time people see Tanto Randori training you hear that its not good for self defence and could be dangerous. The tanto in sport is only used as a means of attack. If two kendoka were armed with real sword neither would have any arms left. Kendo Shinei were designed for sport as is the cloth or rubber tanto in Tomiki Shodokan Shidokan Aikido.
tomikikai 4 years ago
Where in England are you from? I've met Bob Jones, Marco Crispini and many other tomiki players from around the old country many times, all good folks.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Some of what you do is nice for a drill, but if you look honestly 00:45 to 00:55 would get you hurt or killed, running in on the knife 1:15 you get stabbed, and so on. So stop doing the compitition, if someone came at you with a knife your body would react like this and I am sorry to say but if the guy had 6 months in escrima he would kill you, and quickly.
thor7600 4 years ago
Glad you enjoyed the resistance based strike training we do with gloves. tbs: have you posted to all TKD FOLKS to stop practicing olympic sparring bcse it's unrealistic vis a vis street fighting or all MMA fighters bcse cage fighting is not at realistic vav a gang fight, etc? THIS IS NOT SELF DEFENSE TRAINING!!!!! IT IS A SPORT WITH RULES!!!!! Therefore stop practicing FMA as it makes you unprepared for finding IEDs in a modern combat zone. Same logic.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
screw sports with rules this is budo granted i have respect for olympic tkd fighters and mma ppl but fuck tryin to put it in a box grrr.... any ways good training put up some more videos eh?
Eayne 4 years ago
Well, Tomiki is "sport (kyogi) aikido", so the basis to the whole system is to push the sport aspect as Kano did with Judo. However, I do agree that budo is more important than sport and rules limit functionality. We'll put more clips up as we get time and material.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
I actually don't disagree with your comments regarding the "tanto game" we play. If you go to "way of harmony" podcasts I recently conducted an interview with a Tomiki practitioner where we discussed how ramdori is a game to try and improve your aikido techniques within a set of parameters, it is not self defense training. No sane person would enter a confrontation against an armed attacker empty handed, they would arm as soon as possible if confronted by a knife wielding attacker.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Also, because the attacker can only do one move, no matter how fast he is or what level (head high, waist high, groin/leg) you know pretty much where he will be. It makes for a good drill, but do not let success at this game fool you. When I pick up a knife, all I do is slice, and if I stab it is when up close, when they do some things you do, like getting close or trying to wrestle.
thor7600 4 years ago
I like the pressure cooking aikiboxing stuff but this is dumb and dangerous. For a few reasons: The slice, which is illegal in this game and therefore ignored here is harder to defend against and is more likely to occur, unless your in prison. The slice is more deadly than the stab, except for vital areas. People have been stabbed 20 times and lived, but a slice across certain points and you die in minutes or even seconds.
thor7600 4 years ago
I practice different skills sets and responses for different situations, and this is not intended for self defense. I watch Ray Floros training vids in terms of kinfe SD a lot. Very intereesting, love to expand my understanding of FMA for that purpose. We are Tomiki aikidoka, playing the games is part of getting ahead, so we practice specifically for those games. Cheers and thanks for watching.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
hum...looks funny. But this "knife" is like a pincel or a pen? how to see if you hit your enemy or not?
Sidhorf 4 years ago
No, the "tanto" does not leave a mark like pencil or pen, though that would help judges. A direct strike with the tip of the "knife" causing the foam "blade" to bend is a point strike, what would be a considered a penetrating or lethal stab. Slashing is not allowed, only straight thrusts, like in fencing. In tournaments there are judges who score the points and decide what is valid strike.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Some very nice techniques here, shame the odd one or two would be disallowed under comp rules, ie goign down onto both knees, and Kote-Gaeshi is usually a very hard oen to get on in competition, also there are a fair few tatnto strikes that would not be counted as the tanto was not traveling forwards but other than that its a nice video with some interesting variations. Happy training.
tgnrogue 3 years ago
Thanks for the comments, good points, I can tell you know tanto randori rules. Who do you train with in England? We've met Bob Jones, Marco Crispni, etc. over the years. Happy training to you, too
AikidoBob 3 years ago
Thank you very much, and well I had to try and learn quickly what to do and what not to do, as the first real competition our club entered was the National Kyu Grade at Bisham Abbey in 2006. I train in the south east with Jim Dempster, and have also met Bob and have had the fortune of having had two of the squad members Uke for me for a grading once, cant remembe if it was for my 1st or 2nd Kyu gradaing mind as it was a few years ago.
tgnrogue 3 years ago
In the south east, sorry my English geography sucks but I can picture where you are more or less. I've never met sensei Demspter, at least to my knowledge. Most of my contact has been with folks from the north/northwest for whatever reason, Bob, Marco, Dave Feilding, Vonda his wife, Phil Bird...others whose names escape me. Met most of them back in 1992and see them at internationals mostly. Are you planning on going to Kyoto in 2009?
AikidoBob 3 years ago
A fair few of those names sound familiar, and although I still remember the majority of the COmpetition rules I personally dont enter competitions as id still preffer to get more training under my belt before entering the competition side of things again, although I would love to go and watch at some point I doubt it will financially viable to go and see many anytime soon. The downside to being a (currenlty) unemployed martial artist haha.
tgnrogue 3 years ago
money talks, no doubt, maybe you'll hit the lotto and win big. Gambatte!!
AikidoBob 3 years ago
so...cant tell how this game works??
Sidhorf 4 years ago
one attacks with knife the other is allowed to use one of seventeen basic techniques to try to "blend" with the attack. check out the 17s in tomiki and that should give you an idea of which techniques are allowed. very tough game. check it out in real life if you ever have a chance!
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
is obvious this is not aikido...its a game only and not envolt aikido pratice. what i try to say...didn´t see any movements of aikido.
Sidhorf 4 years ago
So why did u put this shit on youtube??
The name is "Aikido Tanto Randori Practice"??? Its not aikido...sorry.
Sidhorf 4 years ago
Shit? Hmmm, sorry to disagree with your ignorant shit, please read up on Kenji Tomiki, his studies with Uyeshiba and Kano, the development of sport aikido and get educated on what is and isn't really aikido. Appears you need lots of educating. Maybe you can visit our friends in Rio for lesson on aikido and manners if you are ever in that city. Seems you can use both lessons.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
If you look down through some of the other comments, this has been covered many times. This is a game to help develop good timing and taisabaki from a committed and uncooperative attack. We have a good interview about this on our usaikido site. I would suggest learning some more about Tomiki Aikido before jumping to conclusions.
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
Cuantas vidas tienen estos mataos?que no se mueren macho
aikixander 4 years ago
sorry... no hablo espanol.
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
No es mas que un juego, compadre. No es vida real, es practica para competencia. So no te gusta, lo siento, pepito.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
que me gusta,jajjajajaaaah yo con gente asi me haria rico y no los colgados del Cardenas.
Que ascooooooooooooooo
aikixander 4 years ago
This kind of training is so dangerous. People stab wildly when they have a knife, getting cut with a knife even the tiniest amount will send someone into shock, which almost entirely negates their ability to fight back.
Current research highlights that knifes are more deadly that guns; more accurate, deeper wounds, high fatality rate. Ths form of simulated training, regardless of it's 'game-esque' nature is shown to severely hamper a person's ability to survive a real knife attack.
prophetezekiel 4 years ago
Please don't misunderstand... this is NOT self defense training. This is not "game-esque" it is a game, with VERY specific rules for the attacker (with the knife) and the defender. The attacker does not use attacks that are very realistic in real life. The purpose of the game is to learn timing off of a forward motion. This is NOT knife self defense training. I've heard that the best defense against a knife is a really fast 100 yard dash! Thanks for the comment.
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
Just like taekwando sparring does not allow kicks to knees and arm bars and chokes this game is limited by rules. We practice kinife self defense in a very different context. Yes, a blade can be very lethal, in some ways more than a firearm. I'm interested in the research you reference, can you give me specifics on who conducted it, where I can read it? Thanks.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Main problem with the rules that removes it from RL are that they:
1) Treats the knife as a short, pointed stick rather than an edged cutting tool with a sharp point.
2) Only recognizes the torso as hit area.
BPo75 4 years ago
You are absolutely right about that. Of course, those rules were designed to protect the players, but they can take the edge off of the reality of the situation. That's part of the reason that Bob and I started playing with Aiki-Boxing (you can find those vids here on youtube). The main objective of the game is to practice timing off of an attack. Thanks for the comments.
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
No diasagreement on either point. the game is based on showing good taisabaki and coountering with very controlled specified techniques. It is fun and difficult, but not realistic by any stretch. All good Tomiki players know that and practice self defense training against a blade in a whole different context.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Oh, please note that this is merely an attempt to explin the differences between the game and actual knife defence :)
BPo75 4 years ago
Thanks, your observations are much appreciated. Do you ever watch the Floro vids (an Australian fencer and FMA practioner)? Check him out, he does some really neat knife training I am wanting to experiment with. He does a lot of facial attacks and uses his "tanto" in a much more realistic manner. And it looks like loads of fun! I just bought hockey helmets and gloves so I can try it out.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Hey screw the nagative crap! Good for you guys for training, hope you're having fun along the way. Sharing naturaly brings critisizm. I hope you won't let that stop you. Deep down it's all about yourself anyways, fuck the rest of us.......
mpscheiner 4 years ago
Thanks, MP. I try to ignore most of the real crap heads but every now and then give in and do some verbal sparring practice. And you re very right, it's always about getting better and having fun, not about what others think of us. We also have some "aikiboxing" videos that really have gotten us some heavy flaming, check them out if you are interested.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
This is lame like two kids fighting in a school yard.
duo1281 4 years ago
This coming from a wanna be lawyer...talk about little kids fighting in school yards.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
I like the drill but both these guys rush in before establishing any semblance of hand control and get stabbed often as a result.
I really do like the drill though, good idea.
thor7600 4 years ago
This is actually a form of competition in Tomiki Aikido. It's not done as a form of self defense (hence the reason we don't seem as worried about getting stabbed). It was mostly designed to help get timing off of a stab. Thanks for the comment!
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
As Jeff said it's a sparring game, not real self defense practice. There are an entire set of drills that are built to teach taisabaki, timing and closing the gap that teach skills relevant to the game. Go to any Tomiki aikido site for more information or send me an email and I'll give you more information about the drills involved.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Its still lame and your comment to me made no sense. Thanks for playing.
duo1281 4 years ago
Read your profile and maybe you will understand. And if it is so lame then why make the comment? What martial arts experience have you got in life to base this comment on? If you have a real constructive comment based on some understanding of Shodokan aikido and tanto randori then make it. If not then go play with other wanna be lawyers in their school yard games.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
lol. Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing, Tai Kwon Do and Boxing. That enough marital arts experience for you? And as far as making a comment on knife defense I have been assaulted with a knife and the defense I saw them using would get you killed irl.
duo1281 4 years ago
that's a good start. In case you haven't read the prior postings and explanations it's a competition game, not self defense training. No more than te Kwan do sparring is real self defense or BJJ grappling is waht you would use in a multiples opponents street fight. I agree I would not protect myself from a blade the way we play the game, not realistic. Enjoy law school.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
I look at martial arts as a way to train your mind and body but also as a way to save your own life from those that would take it. In my opinion it makes no sense to train in a way that doesn't reflect a real life situation. You must be prepared at all times.
duo1281 4 years ago
We all train in different ways for differnt situations. The video is competition training strictly. I train for self defense, and I also practice BJJ to expand the grappling skills I learned from judo back in the 60's (I'm just a tad older than you, Cubiche, yo soy Boricua, BTW). True, there are multiple purposes for MA training, but when folks make off hand remarks about what they don't understand it makes me question their knowledge base and maturity.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Good luck with your future endeavors, BTW.
AikidoBob 4 years ago
Damn, Thank God the knife was rubber!!
ohawk1 4 years ago
Foam is my friend...
AikidoBob 4 years ago
you're a sick sick man padre
nolispe 4 years ago
Why am I sick? Ok, any sicker than you aleady new I was??
AikidoBob 4 years ago
this is not "goog" aikido
however it can be fun and educational probably as they can be as many jutsu as people
Aur0rah 4 years ago
what is "goog" aikido??
AikidoBob 4 years ago
what is "goog" aikido?? haha that was just stupit
shidoadowaza 4 years ago
Maybe it is short for "google" style, you just have to websearch it and never do it! Dam, I should be a 15th dan by now!!!! Supershihan!!!! :)
AikidoBob 4 years ago
I know what you mean :) Did you get blok Sensei out for a seminar yet?
shidoadowaza 4 years ago
Yes, we did. Man, he was a ton of fun, he is dynamite in a dogi. Plus I got to spend lots of time talking to him about aikido and life as we rode back and forth to the Cleveland airport. Do you practice/study with him regularly?
AikidoBob 4 years ago
years ago I did, I was accepted as uchi deschi in 1992 but wasn't able to do it because of finaces. Now I train under toshishiro Obata who was uchi deschi for Gozo shioda. I still remain in contact with Blok sensei but hope to vist the Chudokan this winter, I'm from Michigan so the drive isn't bad.
shidoadowaza 4 years ago
Did youo go to Summer Synergy? Blok invited me but it was right after the internationals and I wasn't able to go. Sounds like it would have been a great time. I'm in Ohio, so it's not that far either. Where is Obata's dojo?
AikidoBob 4 years ago
need more practice...no flow
lordrommel 4 years ago
what style aikido do you practice?
AikidoBob 4 years ago
This is stupit as stupit gets. these guys will be dead in real life just stabbing themselves by walking in to the attacker.
mountfujiave 4 years ago
This is not done as a self defense excercise... it's actually a "game" that Tomiki players use in competition. I'm sorry that you feel like it's "stupit"...
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
stupit is as stupit spells...
AikidoBob 4 years ago
I find kinda weird all these hops that you guys do on Tomiki/Shodokan. I like better traditional aikibudo.
Anyway, great to see you guys doing quality videos :D keep it coming.
caiowilson 4 years ago
actually, if you watch some older footage of O-Sensei, when he was doing randori, he was hopping quite a bit! Search for this y4_3TdHBAvA in youtube and you'll see what I mean. Look at him during the multiple attack portion. He's hopping all the time. Thanks for the comments. We really appreciate it.
skinnymonkey 4 years ago
shioda was like a rabbit watch him hop
shidoadowaza 4 years ago
i apologize for that 'green belt' thing..we don't change the white one until 2.kyu in my dojo but i now see that this situation varies in different dojos..in Aikido, you know, 'the more you learn, the less you know'..however, if you call these 'tecniques' (in this video) 'Aikido', i know absolutely NOTHING about Aikido..the positions, the movements etc..you're right about that..i wish you good luck and success..
camelot969 4 years ago
Tomiki ryu follows a belt color system like Judo. Tomiki was and 8t