Al Bernstein and Barry Tompkins on Whitaker-Chavez

[pirata450]

fuck you guys chavez fucked his ass up you just act mad because chavez is the greatest fighter of all times he has the record of being undeafeted

[philw82]

Julio Cesar Chavez got his ass whopped. Plain and simple. People say Whitaker ran but it looked more like he was running his fists into Chavez' face. Bernstein summed it up best, "you CANT give a round to Chavez after round 6" and he's right.

[geez8212]

First; who named you as an authority on everything? You, I'm sure. Because nothing can be farther from the truth. Arguello wasn't severely beaten in the second pryor fight? If you are over the age of eight, you should refrain from this blind hero worship. Your idol was a poor loser who also quit, accept it. How old was Chavez when he quit against Randall, 90? You are an authority on excuses.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 "Arguello wasnt severly beaten in the second pryor fight?". If I'm to assume that Arguello was "severely beaten" then I MUST conclude that Chavez was "severely beaten", the only difference being that Chavez was fighting back and giving as much as he was getting and in doing so,according to the judges and many others, was winning the fight, but severely beaten just the same. He took alot of punishment on that old body. Now, are you telling ME that Arguello couldn't have continued?

[maaudiosubs]

Not don king hes such a stand up guy!

[sly717]

The guy ran all of the fight, hugged Chavez most of it, threw like 1000 low blows, squatted and turned tail on his opponent, still wonder why the draw? Americans had a hard on Chavez

[MadcapKid23]

i had it 115-113 for whitaker

[BROWNREDFOWL]

CHAVEZ WAS RIGHT PERNELL WAS HOLDING AND DOING ALOT OF HITS WILE THROWING.BUT THIS ARE GRINGOS TALKIGN BAD ABOTU CHAVEZ THEY HATED CHAVEZ WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS FOR BEATINGS THEY'RE GREAT CHAMPS.PERNELL BETTER THAN CHAVEZ LOL THEY ARE DRUGS...

[bluekr2n]

whitaker take off your sunglasses oh wait you cant your eyes are swollen really bad haha

[mjimenez1288]

chavez won the fight ,he is the best pound for pound in the world

[sly717]

kinda pathetic how peolpe jumped and screamed with the decision, for me the sweet pea did not dominated da fight he actually did no harm the old, slow and overweight chavez, i believe that in 1989 or 1990 chavez would have koed him easily, chavez seemed halfway, not in his best shape, and still da sweet pea couldn´t ko him,

so much 4 da sweet pea

[danlfc1983]

Whitaker would have beaten Chavez 100 times out of 100.

[geez8212]

@danlfc1983 1000 out of 1000.

[geez8212]

Chavez like Tyson was great when he was walking through average fighters, but the dog in him came out when he met with resistance. He never REALLY beat a great fighter.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

the most stupid thing i´ve ever heard, what about Meldrick Taylor and Chapo Rosario??, great world champions, go and do your homework dipshit

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo Taylor won 10 of 11 rounds before the ridiculous stoppage. DeLa Hoya, twice, Randall, twice, whitaker, Tszyu all kicked the shit out of him, and he was a quitter. Get your head out of your ass.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

can you be more idiot? I think not ...

1.Taylor= urinating pure blood, facial bones fractured and brain damage

2.De La Hoya= CHavez 36 years old, Oscar 25

3.Randall= a lucky bum that fought Chavez way past his prime

4.Whitaker= ran all of the fight, no chance against chavez at 135 pounds

5.Tszyu= Chavez 38 YEARS OLD, Tszyu 27

JC Chavez ranked the 18th greatest of all times, he has records still not broken in boxing, if you dont know shit PLEASE piss off

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo My, thats a lot of excuses. There is however no excuse for quitting, which was a habit of Chavez'. The second Randall fight(and Randall was older than Chavez, num nuts) Chavez, who was taking an ass whipping, got a small cut, the ref, and doctor said he was fine to continue, he, knowing what was coming said NO, I dont want to. (any fighter with a heart begs to go on) But this dog whined like a bitch, and QUIT. Then Randall was robbed. Im sure you have an excuse for the quitter.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

Well it is clear to me that you don´t know shit about boxing, hater piece of shit, have you even seen Chavez´s fights besides of those ones, u fuckin moron, CHAVEZ WAS ON HIS WAY OUT OF BOXING in those ones, check his prime fights u ignorant shit 4 brains, so now you know more than all of the experts that consider him as one of the greatest in history, do some research and fuck off please stupid bitch

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo Can't take it if someone has a different opinion. huh? You send that message and call ME a hater? Think you know everything. Huh? Obviously you are terribly insecure. You are so biased and emotional. how can you be taken seriously regarding objective conversation. Anyone who knows boxing agrees your idol was a very good fighter, and that he also quit in some of his fights. You sound ignorant when using such foul language. He wouldn't beat Whitaker on his BEST DAY.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 There's no excuse for quitting in a boxing ring? And what would you know about that? Just curious. You're a Hater who gets his kicks off of disrespecting a great champion by alluding to fights where he was cut or hurt in his 30's?? This happened what twice in 115 fights? There's no excuse for quitting when you're a young lion on the way up, but another thing when you've done it all,old, and have a family. Too many champs to name who quit on their stool----ALL of them in their 30's.

[geez8212]

@TheChoice264 Why am I a hater? just curious. Because i am not a fan of Chavez? Please don't imply anything racial. Salvador Sanchez is my all time favorite fighter. Chavez was younger than Randall when he quit in the second fight. he was going to be embarassed and used a small cut as an excuse to quit. The doctor and ref said he was fine to go on. A "warrior" as Chavez is referred to, begs the ref to continue. Chavez and his fans make every excuse. how about accepting defeat gracefully.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 "Why am I a Hater?" Did I stutter? I told you why you're a Hater.

"Please dont imply anything racial". I didn't---but you just did.

"Salvador Sanchez is my all-time favorite fighter." That means you share something in common with Chavez---it was his too.

"A warrior begs the ref to continue". This statement shows your relative lack of knowldge concerning ALL old boxers and the art of war and warriors in general. Research the subject matter and SEE both your ignorance and hypocrisy.

[geez8212]

@TheChoice264 Why don't you explain your profound statement regarding boxers and war. If you fail to grasp the concept of fighters with heart not quitting, then you know even less than I imagined. Your lack of objectivity and Knowledge (thats how you spell the word) is quite transparent.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 ;) The only way I acuire any particular kind of knowledge IS objectively,otherwise it wouldn't be knowledge would it; It'd be intuitive based like that of the animal and not of the man. My statements stand on 30 yrs in the business as a fighter, cut-man, and trainer, and having known many in the business. I aquired this knowledge by observation,EXPERIENCE,classif­ication, and deduction. Even tho you're being a hypocrite, I understand the concept of "fighters with heart dont quit"...cont

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 (cont.). People grasp the same concept differently. People perceive different sense-data. If a group of people are watching a fight they'll perceive slightly different images of it, depending on where they stand. The differences in perception are accounted for in the differences in their positions. Similarly, people grasp the same concept differently. Ex: A group of people will mostly agree on what a good fighter is but they'll disagree on a small portion of cases. This is because...

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 ....their minds grasp the concept of a fighter from different contexts. It is said that every mind somehow grasps its personal copy of a concept. It depends their experience.When the context changes the same concepts are understood in a different way. With the knowledge I've gained from boxing and from fighters, nobody can tell me that Chavez is a quitter or that he's not a warrior based on fights in his twilight. It's a bogus argument. Find one boxing insider who shares your view. ONE

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 If you don't take my word for it, and I couldn't blame you since you don't know me or can't feel as though you know me, then try your damnest to find one boxing trainer or FIGHTER from his era or ANY era who thinks that Julio Cesar Chavez was a quitter.....not a warrior....and was overrated. Find me one fighter or one trainer, who believes that. You wont even find a manager,promoter, referee...or even a legitimate lowly sports writer who agrees with you. Or will you? I'm all ears.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 Happy hunting. In between your desperate searchs...take some time off and google "The History of Boxing with Emanuel Stewart. Part 1." It's an interview on eastside boxing. You might say Emanuel Stewart is a "boxing insider", wouldn't you agree? Read it. It's a good piece. He's asked about a couple few fighters. Enjoy.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 Oh and one last thing, my whole life has been boxing. Boxing has been my life. My World was the Fights and the Fights were the World. Does that make me an "authority"?Maybe...maybe not. But I know what I'm talkin about whether you know it or not. I've forgotten more boxing than you'll ever know.Just curious, I've tried to give you an insight...now tell me....what makes you an authority?How is it that you can say that a great kid,a great fighter,a great man,a great champion had no heart

[geez8212]

@TheChoice264 I find it amusing when you say "Ive forgotten more boxing than you'll ever know", considering you don't know me. I don't believe that i've implied I am an authority(as you surely have) I can recite my resume, but don't feel the need to do so. Suffice it to say I've been involved with boxing for a long time. I disagree with much of what you say, but what the hey, you've got some moxy. Regarding Arguello: You win, He and Chavez both quit in fights, but had great careers.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 Just to name a few Champions off the top of my head who either gave up or quit on their stool are Muhammad Ali,Joe Frazier,Tyson,Arguello,DeLaHoy­a,and Cerdan. There are too many to name really. All these champs were over 30. It's one thing when you are young and hungry. It's another when you are wealthy,old, have no legs, and have accomplished everything you could in boxing and have children that you wanna see grow up. These arent excuses kid. This is the reality of boxing. Get Real.

[geez8212]

@TheChoice264 OK, fine. If your wealthy, old, have no legs, and worried about your children, than how about not accepting millions, while cheating the public. Tyson was a dog, and a quitter who lost to every good guy he fought. The others you mentioned were either severely injured, or had taken vicious beatings, and none made excuses. Chavez,according to his fans was beating Randall. He could have continued, but quit against an OLDER fighter who was about to knock him out, and he knew it.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 "...how about not accepting millions, while cheating the public.". Look, kid, This great champion fought for peanuts his entire reign as champion and didn't get his due until his first pay-per-view fight in 1992 when he fought Hector Camacho for,what, his 30th something defense of his title? This is a travesty that all latino fighters suffer. How dare you say he cheated the public. Once again, your ignorance is on display. A deep cut above the eye is serious. Get real.

[TheChoice264]

@geez8212 "others you mentioned were severly injured, or had taken vicious beatings and none made excuses". Again, JC was severly injured. Did you hear the doctor say it was a bad cut? Cant you see it for yourself? Or are you blind with hate? What excuse did Chavez make? That being said ALL fighters make excuses. They HAVE to when they're old. Cerdan had an excuse. Arguello wasnt severly beaten or injured...he just quit. Are you gonna tell us now that he wasnt a warrior? LOL! You are lost.

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo btw, Chavez was 33 not 36 when he quit against Dela Hoya.In your words " do some research' fool.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

quit!!? are you even serious? who is biased? did you see all da blood? how can u say he quit? first of all, did you even see da fight? all the rounds he kept going forward, the doc stopped it because of the heavy blood, come on man be serious, their second fight was in 1998 and Chavez was 36 years old, DLH 25, he quit in the 8th cause he was too damn old 4 Oscar, prime to prime Chavez would have KILLED him, check their sparring in 92, Chavez knocked him down with a right hand

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo He would have beaten DLH easily in his prime.

[sly717]

@geez8212

dont be stupid, prime to prime chavez would have defeated de la hoya, whitaker, randall and tszyu, since 1994 he was considering retirement, and 2 years later he fights the 23 years old number 1 contender oscar de la hoya,

[geez8212]

@sly717 And you know this how? Randall was OLDER when he made Chavez quit. Many of the guys chavez beat on the way up were past THERE prime. You guys are like Chavez himself, always an excuse. How about accepting defeat graciously. If he was so damn shot why didnt he get out of the game. Old or young, he could NEVER beat Whitaker.

[sly717]

@geez8212

randall was a very lucky bum, well he still is a bum, if you see da 2nd fight, chavez was winning all the rounds, the fight was stopped, how is that quitting if he was winning? chavez wasnt a quitter, thats stupid, he fought everyone everywhere, when he was 38 he challenged the hard hitting kostya tszyu, and took a tremendous beat like a man, the fight was stopped cause chavez had no chance, the thing is that chavez was so great that ignorant people always try to put shit on him

[geez8212]

@sly717 So a BUM knocked the shit out of him and made him quit, and he took a tremendous beating from tszyu? ok, got it.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

"knocked the shit out of him and made him quit"...He fell to the canvas for the first time on his career and beat the count, so wtf are you even talking about? For your knowledge Chavez wasn´t Superman ok? He said it once " I know I will lose someday" he is one of the greatest boxers of all times, BUT HE IS A HUMAN, If you don´t like him don´t watch his fights, ok? With that shit you are saying it proves my theory that Americans are the worst losers and the worst haters worldwide

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo Really man, after some of your posts, how can you call anyone a hater? I am not a Chavez fan, is that ok? I don't hate him, I just don"t respect the way he acted sometimes when things got tough. You guys will say anything to excuse his lack of heart. He did have some great wins, and WAS a great fighter. Chavez, rightfully so, gets a lot of credit for his victories. How about having the class to give your opponent credit, without all kinds of excuses,when you lose.

[diablocoolo]

@geez8212

Dude youre the one who started with the insults and stuff, "knocked the shit out of him", your hatred towards him is obvious, like most americans hate him, cause he was a "beaner" that ruled da sport for so long, look im not even mexican, im from chile (for you knowledge latinos are not just mexicans) same shit that americans pull on pacman "he is using steriods" come on deal with it, foreigns can be champions too

[geez8212]

@diablocoolo " Taylor urinating pure blood, facial bones fracured, and brain damage.Randall a lucky bum, Whitaker ran all fight" according to you.Going by your logic you hate blacks, right? I TOLD you, I don't HATE him, I just don;t respect him okay? Stop with the racial shit,you sound ignorant. btw, Salvador Sanchez is probably my all time favorite fighter, and I love pacman. I have a good reason for not being a Chavez fan, Your loyaties are based only on race,

[teedzy]

Bernstein's hair is magic.I liked him and Tompkins they were my favorite commentators when i was a kid

[Jabitout]

lol

Don King made the cards dissappear

I just hope that motherfucker will write a book escribing all the bullshit that he did in boxing and publish it before he dies.

[SiThompson1]

Whittaker was robbed in this..

Don King had that fixed, i'm also ashamed that being from England one of our judges in Micky Vann could call it a draw.

Whittaker was a better fighter than Chavez and was the man of the 90's

[naggale]

i had it 117:111 whitaker and agree with bernstein there was no round after round 5 i gave to chavez

[ThePresident45]

@naggale

Thats exactly what i had 117-111 Whitaker. Just a complete joke that it was declared a draw by some biased, terrible judgers. 

[speedy310]

@naggale i agree chavez lost but lets not also forget that this fight was at 147lbs and chavez wasnt even a legit 140lbd fighter he was just so tough and strong that he could hang at 140... 147 was too much for a legit 135 lb beast like a chavez.. Sweet pe is the best Lb For LB fighter of the 90s Bar None!

[BruceinFalkirk]

@speedy310

Just to add, Whitaker is a former lightweight champ, like Chavez was and Sweet Pea is shorter than Chavez.

Whitaker in no way was a bigger man than Chavez.

[TheChoice264]

@BruceinFalkirk Just because they both fought at lightweight does not mean they were the same size. Chavez beganhis pro career as a Bantamweight. Whitaker is naturally a couple weight-classes bigger than Chavez. Chavez weighed-in at 142-Whitaker at 145. Come fight time is was probably more like Chavez 142-Whitaker 150 to 152lbs. Even today Chavez walks around at only about 150-155 lbs.

[BruceinFalkirk]

@TheChoice264

Chavez won his first title at junior lightweight and was probably underweight there. He is also taller than Whitaker. He is in no way a smaller man than Whitaker.

[TheChoice264]

@BruceinFalkirk Again,Chavez debuted as a Bantamweight weighing 116 lbs. Whitaker debuted as a Lightweight weighing 134 1/2 lbs. Okay? See the difference? 134 to 116 ? Whitaker turned pro at age 20 and Chavez at age 16, so lets be fair to Whitaker and compare their weight at the same age, right? Okay, lets do that. In 1984, at age 20 Whitaker weighed 134 1/2 lbs. In 1982 at age 20 Chavez weighed 124lbs. See the difference? 134 to 124 ? Pee naturally landed at welterweight. JC at SuperLight.

[BruceinFalkirk]

@TheChoice264

Don't patronize me. Whitaker is shorter than Chavez and in no way has a size advantage over Chavez.

It's quite common practice for Mexicans to fight below their natural weight, AFAIK.

[TheChoice264]

@BruceinFalkirk By the way the correct title is called a Superfeather not juniour light. Sorry.

[BruceinFalkirk]

@TheChoice264

Depends on the governing body. It is Junior Lightweight according to some bodies.

[Rowsdower47]

travesty indeed

[carbert68]

Pernell Whitaker was, pound for pound, the best boxer of the 1990's. He is an all-time great who has never received his just due.

[dhlfh]

amen to that

[bluenote71]

@carbert68 That depends. Ring Magazine put him 11th in their list of 80 greatest in the past 80 years.

[BROWNREDFOWL]

@carbert68 pernell was a clown the most boring fighter of all time hell no he wont recive that credit now chavez the toughest mothafucker of all time im not saying the best but the toughest teh most fin to watch and clearly the best of his time SHOULD BE AT TOP 20 ATG'S

[carbert68]

@BROWNREDFOWL Whatever. Keep livin' in your dream world and ignore the fact that everyone outside of Mexico knows Whitaker got robbed. Also ignore the fact that Chavez was a quitter. He threw in the towel not once but twice, Randall and De la Hoya. Chavez in his prime was a great fighter, but he definitely did not deserve a draw against Whitaker. Knowledgeable boxing observers laugh at that decision.

[BROWNREDFOWL]

@carbert68 chavez quit against randall LOL...watch the fight again.....de la hoya come on no one even cares if chavez did he was 36 14 years after winning his firtst world title...how come your gay idol didnt fight julio at light or or 140????cuz he is a puzzy liek mayweather....look at the balls of chavez he weigh in 142 he could ask for a stupid catch weight but he didnt thats balls.

[carbert68]

@BROWNREDFOWL 2nd Randall fight: Julio gets cut and QUITS. Doctor would have let it go but Chavez shook his head and QUIT. Who cares about the weight? Both fighters were at 130 before moving up. Whitaker didn't have any big size advantage, just the advantage of being better. He outboxed AND outfought Chavez, made him look like a pussy. Definitely won 8 of the 12 rounds. Chavez got a total gift. And like the dork he is, he gave Whitaker no credit after the fight. What a classless whiner.

[BROWNREDFOWL]

@carbert68 he should of got points taken away pernell but for his luck cortez was the ref....pernell was a pussy running hugging hitting on the brake and a low blow WOW...thats tough.plus chavez was no longer the same beast even against camacho you can see he had lost his legs

[zapboook]

@BROWNREDFOWL If you're a Chavez fan, fine. You probably think he got the shaft in his fights with Frankie Randall and DelaHoya. But man, there is no way Whitaker didn't deserve this decision. The ref didn't take away any points so you can't talk about holding or fouling. And it's not like Whitaker was running away from Chavez. He was right there to be hit, but Chavez just couldn't catch him. Whitaker, one of the most skilled boxers since Willie Pep, kicked his ass, plain and simple.

[BROWNREDFOWL]

@zapboook chavez was greater than all those americans at his time that you and others are mentioning they were never as great as him proof go and check the atg list of espn.and tell me who is higher those punk pussy fighters you and all this fags are talking about or the lion of culiacan

[zapboook]

@BROWNREDFOWL -- Who's the pussy? Pernell Whitaker who after getting the shaft against the Whiner of Culiacan said simply, "The people know who won" or your idol, who whined and complained about Whitaker and did the same after losing to Randall? Waaa-waaa-waaa. That's your idol's favorite line after a fight where he doesn't get a gift from the judges.

[BROWNREDFOWL]

@zapboook liek i told u check the espn atg list JAJA

[diablocoolo]

@zapboook

Hahaha hard words from an ignorant hater

[diablocoolo]

@carbert68

LOL!! so now Chavez is a quitter? you gringos invent anything against the poor ol JC, come on in the 2nd fight against Randall he was winning by points and he was the agressor, he quit against DLH just like DLH quit against Pacman, and DLH doesnt want a fight against Chavez Jr. because he knows that the Jr. is going to own his ass and he doesnt want that, I mean to look like the Jr. avenged his dad, that is life and that is boxing.