The Counter Reformation: "Free" Will (James White)

[deestilo]

the audio is a bit funny.

Dr. James White voice is usually calm and directing, however the audio in this vid is a bit, sorry. "elmer fudd" esque.

It's like hearing a different person.

[StevieWonder501]

I have a question now. Calvinists say that We are all predestined for Hell, and yet they also say that some are predestined for Heaven...(?) How does that work? Are those predestined for Heaven destined for Hell or not? It just seems contradictory.

[soccer21928]

@StevieWonder501 thats easy to answer. calvinists do not say that everyone is predestined for hell.

[florinu123]

this video explained so much. i finished reading the books Yada Yahweh and Questioning Paul, by Craig Winn. apparently, that man has such a desire for the free will of man, that he dedicated the 2nd book i mentioned to show that Paul was supposedly demon possessed and can't be trusted. he also made the statement that the entire Pauline corpus has to be rejected. i was this close to loosing my faith last year thanks to those books. dr White as vital to my integrity.

[patriotsfan137]

I don't understand how any one can say freewill when the bible says that we are slaves to sin I mean at what time of the day or night do people punchout and than say ahh now I can make a free choice if thats the case than we are not slaves cause as far as I know a slave is a slave 24/7 ahh yes responsability huh

? ROM.9 THAN WHY DOES HE FIND FAULT BUT WHO ARE YOU TO ARGUE WITH YOUR MAKER can someone answer that please

[ArmorOfGodMinistries]

This is NOT True. Arminianism was way more Calvinist than Roman Catholic. This is not true, this is false. This right here is how you can identify a Hyper-Calvinist. Jacobus Arminius LOVED John Calvin and St. Augustine. He did have his differences, but yet he wrote about them highly in his writings. My fellow Historical Calvinists, don't let people tell you that Arminian's are Jesuits and Heretics. James White and Lane Chaplin are Hyper-Calvinists. BEWARE!!!

[AgApE010]

@ArmorOfGodMinistries

-

Define the doctrines of a Hyper-Calvinist (that distinguish them from a Historical Calvinist) and show us which of them White holds to.

[aburocko]

@AgApE010 very simple, if I was a Hyper-Calvinist I would not be telling the lost about the Good news of Christ, I would not be obeying the Great Commission, I would not care about spreading the Gospel to the fore corners of the Earth, I would not pray, I would not take part in the Lords Supper, I would care less about the poor, I would not hold people accountable to their actions, I would forsake the gathering of my brother & sisters in Christ, AND I would not be responding to you right now.

[AgApE010]

@aburocko

-

I'm glad you seem to understand, but I was asking ArmorofGodMinistries cause he was accusing White and Lane of being Hyper-Calvinists. Naturally, he never responded. :)

[aburocko]

@ArmorOfGodMinistries If James White was a "hyper-Calvinists" then why is he a part of Alpha & Omega Ministries? Or is it possible that you do not know the definition of hyper- Calvinists? Or is it possible that you don't have any biblical backing to your theology & have resorted to mud slinging?

[roaringwaterbay]

what confession of faith is he talking about; some calvinist document, i assume, but which one in particular?

[iahm87]

This doesn't sound like James White lol

[kkallebb]

I am not a Molinist -- I lean toward Calvinism (infralapsarian), but I have to say that the motive of many Christians in opposing strong, Augustinian doctrines of grace is not necessarily "will worship," but often the desire to avoid certain logical conclusions, such as that God is the author of sin (which many think implicit in supralapsarian calvinism) or that God does not sincerely desire the salvation of "all men" (calvinism in general, the RC theory of predestination ante praevisa merita).

[roaringwaterbay]

@kkallebb good point.

[florinu123]

i have all respect for James White, but using Jesuits conspiracy as an argument is beneath him.

[WorshipInTruth]

@florinu123 Are you kidding? You cannot talk about the Counter Reformation without talking about the Jesuits and their conspiring to destroy the Reformation. The whole "Free Will" argument is also at the center of this. James White also knows the jesuits personally as he has debated them.

[WorldIslamicOrder]

tubeislam com - learn islam from muslims

[fre4409]

James White is so blessed from God....all should view his videos...he is a very clear thinker and provides solid exegesis of the bible.

Free will is based on a man centered gospel. The doctrine of predestination/election is a God centered doctrine.....which doctrine does God approve of?? I think the answer is clear.

[florinu123]

question: can a man seak YHWH and be deceived by God? for example, east orthodox monks believe in the god of the Bible, but believe that it's His desire for him to isolate himself. These men seek God, yet they are not saved. Can God deceive such people who seek him?

[WorshipInTruth]

@florinu123 It is not God who is decieving them. They are decieving themselves.

[tgz1000]

What's with the excessive use of "quotes" during these little "debates" whenever someone on the opposing side uses a particular "phrase" like "free will".

[Truthknower]

Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus who is God most High.

Free will is false due to the fact that mankind is totally depraved or unable in and of themselves to choose God most High or seek him. Therefore God Almighty must draw a man and thus enabling him to choose him.

May the God of all grace have continue mercy, grace, and peace upon those whom follow truth. in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Marquest Burton

[eIe12957]

Free-will in the bible.

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock. If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of HIS OWN VOLUNTARY WILL at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD. Leviticus 1:2-3

[CBALLEN]

fishslab,do you know what the word DRAW means as used in scrpiture pertaining to The Holy Spirit?

[CBALLEN]

Romans 9 proves that God loves some and hated others.If this is offensive to you,then you have to make a choice to reject the Word of God or believe God.

[LaneCh]

Please post more on my videos. I like to read your comments.

[fishslab]

Are you being serious or sarcastic? It's rare for people to like to read comments that oppose their belief system.

[LaneCh]

No, I'm being sincere. I'd appreciate it if you'd post more because you do have an opposing viewpoint. I'd like for others to hear your arguments.

[CBALLEN]

Brother,God has used your videos to show me the truth of ELECTION.I have been like a wild man telling everyone about the truth I found,but like some comments here,they aren't to happy to have their world rocked by the truth.

[fishslab]

Election does not imply the lack of freewill as 1 Peter 1:2 states that the elect of God are elect according to the foreknowledge of God not the pre-selection of Calvinism.

[CBALLEN]

You must not have read Eph 1.4-23 then,because you have to torcher scripture to make it say something else.BTW I used to believe like you.

[fishslab]

I've read it more times than you know, just not through the glosses of John Calvin. You see. I understand that Ephesians 1:11 has an appositive describing the inheritance being predestinated not heirs. The way of salvation, not the recipients of salvation, was predestinated.

[CBALLEN]

How many times have I read it?I 'm 50 btw.

[fishslab]

Did I say anything about how many times you read it? I said I that I read it...nothing about you.

[CBALLEN]

fishslab ,could you please God with your goodness?Were you a slave of sin in your lostness?

[PurePower025]

election does imply the lack of freewill- true.

God can elect His people, He more than anyone else has the right to do so.

Yet, even if i am not an "elect of His" i can still enter the kingdom of heaven by the "way of salvation"

you wrote well and i agree with you.

[fishslab]

I disagree with you. There is only one way of salvation not two. God does not predestinate men to be saved.

[PurePower025]

so..... you agree with me.

ok.

[fishslab]

Uh...no. God doesn't "elect" people. He elected the means of salvation and redemption. The "elect" are those who simply chose to accept the free gift of salvation of Jesus Christ. The means of their redemption was predestinated, not the people. So, again I say I disagree with you.

[PurePower025]

OH!

U said, "He elected the means of salvation and redemption. The elect are those who simply chose to accept the free gift of salvation of Jesus Christ etc.

U r right

I only "add" to what you say in that God MAY choose if He wishes His elect people, but you dont agree with that.

So basically i agree with you in all you say but I added a concept that you dont agree with.

So thats why you said "there is only 1 way of salvation not two. God does predestinate men to be saved.

[candiceevans1]

@fishslab alot of people believe in predestination so it depends on who you ask and how they interpret the bible,,,I have heard many reformed thologians discuss predestination ,,,I think they believe that God only draws those who are the elect which can lead to fatalism and just not caring about evangelising,,,Its all very confusing and subject to the interpretation of the individual

[whitedragonawa]

If God would reject you then no you can't.

[fishslab]

So, I began to watch this video and I have found several inaccurate statements. James White makes it look as if those who advocate the concept of free will stole the concept from the Roman Catholic Church. However, men such as Justin Martyr and Irenaeus of Gaul advocated the notion of free will long before the existence of the Roman Catholic Church.

[fitzgel1]

The Bible says choose you this day whom you will serve. Choose is another word for FREE WILL... but we know nothing is free... so any will carried out has a judgement behind it... good or bad...

[dwaynesweatman1988]

...Did you ever notice on the scripture you present "CHOOSE" in, the Lord God Jehovah was not given as an option?!

Amazingly our God chooses his people! Not visa versa. (Ephesians 1:4)

[fishslab]

Read the verse following as well as Ephesians 1:11. God did not predestinate anyone to be saved, but he did predestinate their way of redemption. The inheritance, not the heirs, was predestinated.

[CBALLEN]

Read eph 1.4-23 ?

[PurePower025]

God chooses His people yes.

But no where in Scripture does it say, a person cannot choose God.

I can choose God even if He dont choose me.

[daveme7]

My question is, in Psalms 14 ad 53, does this show the free will of ma?

[bmd200]

When God said that to Joshua it was in refence to obeying Him. We can choose to obey but can we choose to believe?

[Licmycat]

GOD knows what you are going to choose. You're left to destroy urself by his goodwill toward man. In my understanding.

[skalapunk]

"GOD knows what you are going to choose."

Correct! He knows that you're going to chose sin, evil, and rebellion 100% of the time, every single time, and reject God all the way to hell.

The only rescue is if HE HIMSELF regenerates and converts you by His own power, all by himself, with no help or assistance from you.

[Licmycat]

You've never read the story of Judas have you? The one who sold out Jesus for fifty silver pieces and hung himself when he recognized his evil...? GOD put him in that place to do as he did.

[HoParoikos]

@skalapunk lol. awesome. good way of putting it!

[daveme7]

According to Psalms 14 and 53, we all choose to reject God and go to hell. This is what God knows according to his word.

[GuardianofTwilight]

Could a Calvinist tell me if this is true?

In Calvinism, a person goes to hell because God predestined him to go to hell, not because he is sinful or has done evil acts because this was prior to him being born, but for some unknown reason God decieded he didn't like that person. Yet, he chose to save some not according to good works but because he wanted to.

Would you say that was true? Just trying to understand Calvinism a little more.

[LaneCh]

Hey, Guardian. I can tell you that that isn't true. Here's where we all start, believers and unbelievers alike: We're all going to hell because we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. Out of that people, God chooses a select number to give them something they don't deserve: grace. The reason why he chooses some and not others isn't something we know other than "For his own good pleasure" (Eph. 1:11) The video I posted about double predestination will help you with this further.

[GuardianofTwilight]

Ok, but does God decied who gets to go to heaven and who goes to hell before that person is born and has the chance to sin? Or is this after?

[LaneCh]

It's before. A person doesn't believe to become chosen after they're born. A person believes because they are chosen before they were born.

[GuardianofTwilight]

Ok, now did God choose before the Fall of Adam and Eve? Or did he choose after?

[RonixEnclave]

Before everything. We have to understand that God knows the future, therefore, he knew who was going to be saved and who wouldn't. So obviously, he can elect those who are saved and who aren't.

[NeoConvert]

Ronix,

I have serious misgivings as to whether LaneCh is going to agree with your addendum here. The way you've interposed here, Guardian might think you're speaking for LaneCh's point of view, which I very much doubt.

[HisFatherlyHand]

Revelation 13:8 says the book of life of the lamb who was slain was written before the foundation of the world. So before creation, before the fall, God knew we would sin and planned to send a savior, his Son, to die for the sins of the elect, whose names he wrote in the book of life. And to reiterate, as Rev 13:8 says, he wrote their names in the book of life before creation.

[pastorsteve2]

Dr. Robert Reymond suggests what might be the order of God's plan of salvation: 1. "the election of some sinful men to salvation in Christ (and the reprobation of the rest...) 2. "the decree to apply Christ's redemptive benefits to the elect sinners." 3. "the decree to redeem the elect sinners by the cross work of Christ." 4."the decree that men should fall" 5."the decree to create the world and men." The key here is this: (before the foundation of the world) God elect's sinners to salvation.

[1deanwdaniel]

well it would seem he would of had to known before he even created the angels since he knows all. he'd have to of known luifur what rebel take 1/3 of the angel and then use him to trick adam and eve then use him to punish the good people who don't bye into any religion. based on faith in a lake of fire forever.

hey sounds like a wise all loving god to me. OR NOT!!!

[shieldsff]

1deanwdaniel - yes God knew in perfect foreknowledge what would and will occur, but because man abused his freewill God also provided a 'solution' consistent with his nature. Remember, it was before 'the foundation of the world' that God chose believers and made a provision for our sinful state in Christ Jesus. Repent & believe the Gospel before it is too late !!!

[1deanwdaniel]

that wont happen but thanks any way...

[peitschfamily]

@LaneCh

It's very hard to take in. Should I be considered gracious if I kill most of my kids but I let a few of them live.

[peitschfamily]

@LaneCh

It's very hard to take in. I wouldn't be considered gracious if I killed most of my kids but I let two of them live.

[aburocko]

@peitschfamily Would you consider it gracious if a couple adopted 2 orphans from a orphanage that had over a 1000 children? Or are they hateful because the passed up the other 998?

[peitschfamily]

@aburocko That implies a limited ability. If you had the ability to care for all of the children (as God does) and you had offered care to all the children (As God doe in His Word), then you would be a monster if you were to turn them away and withhold your care.

[jofandkerstin]

I encourage you to read Romans chapter 8 & 9, if you can read that and still come to the same conclusion that God is somehow immoral for not choosing someone to life then I would suggest either 1. You don’t understand the Sovereign Holiness of God 2. You have a distorted man like image of God or 3.You don’t understand the repugnant character of mans sin. Either way you’ll either accept these great truths or you will spend the rest of your life avoiding them in the word of God. Soli Deo Gloria.

[peitschfamily]

@jofandkerstin

Avoiding truths? Why don't you go to scripture and count how many times God asks someone turn, change, choose or will to do something. Then send another comment with that number; and tell me again about how much scripture I will have to avoid.

BTY

Romans does not contradict the doctrine of "free will". Try reading all of Romans in one sitting, not just 8&9 next time. 

[aburocko]

@peitschfamily How do you get around John 6??

[jofandkerstin]

No one denies your ability to make choices. Our position is that you can only make choices in accordance to your nature. The scriptures state that you are in slavery Jn 8:31-47 and are spiritually dead Ep 2:1-9. You do not have the ability to believe unless God grants it Jn 6:44,65 Ep 2:8 or even the desire to believe (Rom 3:11). In the same way Lazarus (Jn 11:41-44) could not resurrect himself to obey Jesus "...come forth" God must resurrect you (Jn 3:3) before you can 'choose Him'.

[HoParoikos]

@peitschfamily oh I did. as a Calvinist is try to get everyone to read the entire book of Romans, because Paul makes a case against humans point by point. 'turn, change, choose" has nothing to do with "free will" but with the changing of the holy spirit. the bible says we had hearts of stone that God has to make them flesh.

[aburocko]

@peitschfamily "Limited Ability"?? Really? A great example of "Limited Ability" is God begging for people to accept Him & not being able to save until Man makes the first move, that is Limited my friend. I did not say they can't adopt the other 998 the simple passed them up out of their own free will. Yes I said "free will", & yes I'm a Calvinist!

God Bless!

[peitschfamily]

@aburocko

God does not beg he implores. 2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

[jofandkerstin]

Context! Context! Context! - 2Cor 5: 10-21 Is talking about the zealous preaching of the gospel and its interesting to note that the subject of the text is not universal but is very specifically speaking of the saints, note how many times the terms us, you and we are used just in verses 20,21. Does God desire the subject of the text to be saved, Yes! And as always God accomplishes that which he wills (Job 23:13, Is 46:10), for as the objector of Romans 9:19 stated “who hath resisted his will”.

[peitschfamily]

@jofandkerstin

Context? How many ambassadors does China send to China. Calvinists should try applying the context of grammer. A question, does scripture ever speak directly to the sinner?

[HoParoikos]

@peitschfamily Most epistles begin somewhere along the lines of "To the saints in..." so you can't figure it out by yourself? uke explains in acts that he wrote his gospel so that the saints would know what happened with Jesus. The bible is written to Christians. However, it gives warning to fakers, those who profess Christianity but are not regenerate.

[aburocko]

@peitschfamily AHHH, look in your dictionary & visit the word "implore"? The NASB uses the word "appeal" which is a more accurate translation. I have no problem telling you we are ambassadors for Christ. God use us to fulfill His plan, just as He uses Evil to fulfill His plan. I'm not sure how this verse proves your point? You are way off my fiend when it comes to context here. I think if you take God out of this human sensational box, you will begin to see Him in a much greater way.

[HoParoikos]

@peitschfamily it says "as if God were pleading" it says "WE implore," not God implores. This verse is speaking to CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOT LIVING IN THE SPIRIT. Read the whole passage. It is not pleading with those not professing faith in Christ. He says "we, we, we." The letter is called Corinthians because it was a letter to the Christians in Corinth! The letter says it is to the church of God in Corinth together with all the rest of the saints.

[aburocko]

@peitschfamily So then what your saying is God wants to save them but can't. Or are you saying God saves them but, they end up in Hell cause God's salvation plan failed for them? If your Theology is correct then these are the only 2 options. There is no other way. But if God chooses to save the sinner, out of His own free will & pass the other sinners up, out of His own free will, then there is no contradiction with that & God is not limited in any way, shape or, form. Truth must be consistent.

[34craigjan]

@LaneCh God is able to draw us to Himself by His power but we can resist it and be rebellious rather than submitting ourselves to righteousness. The bible makes it clear that He forms us in our mother's womb and we are made upright, fearfully and wonderfully . To say He made us to be sinful or unable to come to Him by our freewill, you are making God to be the author of sin, something He hates and despises. Psalm 7:11 states God is angry with the wicked everyday.

[34craigjan]

@LaneCh Ephesians 1 does not state that God has some eternal decree which person will have faith or not, but Paul is saying here that everything is held together in Christ, through and for HIM. The phrase, "in Him" is mentioned 12 times and it's only AFTER we have heard the truth, the gospel of our salvation, that we can be redeemed by the blood of Jesus. It is not something pre-ordained by God before we're born

[dgb0000001]

@34craigjan So when God, in Ephesians 1 says "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world...", it does not mean that HE has chosen us before the foundation of the world, but instead we chose God after the foundation of the world. That seems to be exactly what the meaning of the text is

[CBALLEN]

@dgb0000001 Ephs 1 is telling us exactly why and how we are saved,it's telling us that God,through His good pleasure,chose His own before the world was.We can't look at a scripture and change it's meaning to fit our doctrine,the scriptures should mold our doctrine.

[dgb0000001]

@CBALLEN I'm sorry. I felt that the sarcasm in my comment would be more evident than it is after reading i again.

[CBALLEN]

@dgb0000001 Oh ,Ok,Sorry.

[Ironmaw1776]

Wrong, free will is never mentioned in the bible. romans 9: 19 -21 "You will say to me then, Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, Why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?"

[Johnnytm21]

@LaneCh Romans 9:22 tells us God wills that the power of His wrath be made known on the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. So we know to a certain extent that one reason why God does not choose some is because He apparently wants to be known for His mighty power in His wrath towards sin and wicked men. I believe we can know from scripture that God desires His whole "person" to be completely known. This can't be done if He saves all people.

[34craigjan]

@LaneCh , God makes it very clear that He wants ALL to be saved but doesn't force anyone to come to Him. (Ezekiel 33:11, 2Pet 3:9, etc) The only ones that will be saved are those that repent of their sins, trust in Christ, walk in obedience and holiness, and endure to the end. It is foolish to think that God picks and chooses who will be His people as if freewill of mankind has no purpose in determining that factor. Read Titus 2:11-14 that clarifies the grace of God, Ezekiel 18 and 1 John

[Johnnytm21]

@GuardianofTwilight Romans 9:22 tells us God wills that the power of His wrath be made known on the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. So we know to a certain extent that one reason why God does not choose some is because He apparently wants to be known for His mighty power in His wrath towards sin and wicked men. I believe we can know from scripture that God desires His whole "person" to be completely known. This can't be done if He saves all people.

[NomosCharis]

30:38-31:21,

Wow! What a statement that was! It pierced me to the heart.

"Society hates the statement that those who are in the flesh cannot please God, and you know why? Because they already know it. They already know they are not pleasing to God, and they hate it."

How profound.

[roaringwaterbay]

@NomosCharis if everyone is so ignorantly evil, as the calvinists claim, then how would they know this?

[NomosCharis]

@roaringwaterbay

Men are not ignorantly evil (nor is that the Calvinist claim). Men are deliberately evil. They suppress the truth they know about God until their hearts are darkened. Any ignorance they experience is therefore a willful, and inexcusable one (see Romans 1:18-28 for reference).

[whitedragonawa]

What is the difference between regular calvinism and compatibalist calvinism?

Also dont Calvinists already believe in free will, which is within God's overarching will? We can do what we want, but still it will not contradict God's overarching Will for us since Romans 8 says that God works everything out according to His will?? So we can sin all we want and make bad choices yet God pulls us towards Him no matter if we still want to reject Him we cant. ?????

[LaneCh]

Calvinists on the whole do not believe that man's will is free, but we do believe that man has a will. The problem is that that will is enslaved to sin unless Jesus sets us free. If a man is being drawn to Jesus, they will be set free from the bondage of their will which is in slavery to sin.

"What is the difference between regular calvinism and compatibalist calvinism?"

I don't think there is one. Calvinists on the whole believe in compatilablism.

[whitedragonawa]

OK that is what I was wondering. It seems like Man is free in his depravity to sin and do what he wants. but if he is convicted of sin it means God chose him for salvation. The man had nothing to do with it. So what does compatabalism mean? Does it mean the man has free will to move within the will of God that controls him to do His will? We can try but we cant get away from God's will? How do we interpret Romans 8 where it says conforms to the will of God?

[Deliratio]

"The problem is that that will is enslaved to sin unless Jesus sets us free."

this makes everything sound much more logical

[Jesse859]

For a rebuttal the Calvinists denial of free will, check out an article that I wrote on my site titled "Is Free Will a Myth?" You can click my profile to find a link to my site.

I can understand why Calvinists are concerned about the doctrine of free will, but the concept of free will is very clearly found throughout the old and new testament, including some verses in the old testament which use the very term, "freewill". Check out the article for more info.

[Hosea22]

Thank you for that article, it was rather interesting...

[wuebbsco]

Thanks Lane. Love most of your vids. I'm a big fan of Dr White as well. God bless you sir!