Katori shinto ryu Jean Prieur et Pierre Rousseau

[418emile]

Superbe !

Question: dans votre fédération est-ce qu'il y à des pratiquants qui ne se concentrent que sur le TSKSR ou il faut absolument qu'ils pratiquent aussi l'akibudo ?

[knallbirne3000]

very nice

[farangsulsa2]

congrats...super technique!

Merry Christmas!

Respect

KJN Nelson Pinto

[pierre267]

Salut Jean.. je viens de reagarder le video et c'est vraiment un bon souvenir.. Très content du résultat. Dynamique tout en demeurant précis...

[islandboy71]

there's a katori school in montreal?

[JeromeMTL82]

@islandboy71 You can train in KSR at the downton and Guy-Favreau YMCA.

[MrKendobob]

c'est ne pas bon

[infrason]

pierre267, there are a lot of mistakes in your comments.

First of all, Otake sensei is not Soke, he is Shihan, the current Soke name is Yasusada Iizasa, it's an hereditary position passed through generation, he doens't have any technical expertise, and doens't train in Katori, his role is to perpetuate the family line of Iizasa Ienao sensei, the creator of Katori Shinto Ryu.

[Peekingduck]

@infrason

All true.

[ganryu100]

I practice Katori shinto ryu hatakeyama-ha and i would say that as i can see they lack '' spirit '' , this is a very well made dance , but they are far from beeing in the right spirit of the art.

I totally agree with tealva

[pierre267]

@ganryu100 Im glad that you appreciate the video. Thanks. And it was intended to be presented in a more colorful way. The object here is to help people discover this great art. Im curios to know were do you practice, how long and what is for you the right spirit of the art.

[pierre267]

@ganryu100 Hatakeyama personnaly asked and specified that no school should use his name. I think that's the first step in having the right vision and spirit of his art.. Like i said. This presentation was intended to present TSKSR in a different way. For practicing for 15 years with Hatakeyama you are right beginners should not execute the kata at this speed.. Practicing also with Sugino (father) he also put the emphasis on position and a more stop and go execution.

[boom600]

J'ai hâte à mon prochain stage :)

[tealva]

Nice video (lighting, music, etc.) but the techniques are unfortunately watered down... But as a dance-like routine, very well executed :) Keep training!

[pierre267]

Well i am going to dance on water i like that expression but I would be glad to have your comment and learn from your experience.

[kaifinn]

i am reading the comments from peeking peekingduck and piere267.

one of the main teachings of the ksr is not to draw the sword. this can also be done is this case. why talking about the old candels? concentrate on the flame wich is now.

[Peekingduck]

Removed all my posts since I don't want to create any more frustration..

Be well

[pierre267]

Funny that you would say that since i keep on telling you that you are wright on some point. Like i said maybe my english is not good enought that we can understand eachother.I will keep my comments posted. And exchanging opinion and knoledge is always interesting.

By the way Mochizuki was one of the first Japenese to export Budo and TSKSR outside of Japan. So was Sugino sensei. And like you say they were like Otake the tree person to perpetuate the TSKSR "intangible cultural asset"

[pierre267]

And yes there is a lot of frustration in your comment. Dont know why??? Relax....

Like your comment "the title Soke (which isn't a French word)" Is a little xénophobic.

[Peekingduck]

: ) Not frustrated at all.

The "intangible cultural asset" is given by the Chiba prefectural government so this is a matter of public record.

CHECK on it please ! Most of your posting personal ideas are pure mis-information...

Mochizuki and Sugino never were part of the "intangible cultural asset" deal, that's a fact, Check for yourself PLEASE !

I'm not trying to 'dis' Sugino's groups at all. Just correct facts

Deal with this on the facts, please...

Be well and good luck with training.

[pierre267]

Ok .. Lets continue then...if you would like to fill in the blanks with facts you are welcome and its just interesting. Here are some facts and please try not to mix the phrases.

1- The18ème soke, Shuri-no-Suke Morisada, died in 1898, at the age of 59 ans, leaving no male "heritier"

2-So the teaching was took by shihan Yamaguchi Kumajiro who was assisted by 8 experts.

3- 1929 after wedding Shuri-no-Suke Kinjiro is 19 soke. Rumors would say that the place was offered to Mochizuki Sensei.

[pierre267]

4-1928 Sugino sensei (age 38) studied under Shiina Ichizo sensei, Tamai Kisaburo sensei, Kuboki Sozaemon sensei and Ito Takenichi sensei, The experts i mentionned.

5-1941. IIZASA SHURI NO SUKE KINJIRO, 19 soke autorised Sugino to publish a book and reveal TSKSR. Reference and writed in a préface in Suginos book.

6- 1942 at the age of 16 Otake signed the Keppan.

7- Otake studied under Hayashi Yazaemon sensei (1882-1964) and optain the gokui kaiden at 42 (age) In 1968

[pierre267]

8- Otake who studied under one of the 8 experts became Shihan in that same year 1967 or 1968.

9- 1960 Otake made the TSKSR a cultural asset.

10- Are these facts OK.

[Peekingduck]

Dude!

I told you I was done and you kept posting messages to me... who is it that can't stop.

You've checkt nothing of what I have written and you are taunting... I ask my original question, again, where do you get the 'facts' of such claims that Mochizuki and Sugino were both an intangible cultural asset'?

Stop avoiding the subject.

I will not post on this again since you are becoming a to bit obsessive illogical in your posts.

Be well I Couldn't be more done with you...

[Peekingduck]

C'mon, I quoted you.

"Rumors would say that the place was offered to Mochizuki Sensei"

[pierre267]

@Peekingduck Hey i did not see your post.. go and read Stanley Pranin sites and subject about TSKSR. Search internet....

[Peekingduck]

@pierre267

Stanley Pranin is hardly considered an authority on TSKSR. Aikido research he is awesome at.

Nor is internet a real reliable source... I'm sorry.

Next time you are in Japan look up the Kenkyukai etc

The Sugino line have made claims that can't be substantiated by any independent sources. Even Soke-claims have been made. It's not justifiable or true.

There are quite a lot of research done on TSKSR in Japan(ese).

Have a look at them and judge for yourself.

Be well

[Peekingduck]

@pierre267

BTW, What post is it you're talking about?

I haven't posted anything here in a loooooooooong time.

It got kind of ridiculous last time so...

no matter

Be well

[Peekingduck]

LOL Roumors ?

[pierre267]

Well if every fact for you is a rumor, no wonder you cant complete history.

[infrason]

Empty and dilapidated Katori shinto ryu. I would rather watch Otake sensei to have a glance at the essence of Katori.

[pierre267]

Well i guess you havent watch enought videos or trained alot to have such a comment. But keep watching!!!

[infrason]

Please, let's try to criticize this video instead of attacking people personnaly. I might be true if I'd say you know nothing about my "martial art life".

Furthermore watching "enough videos" is not part of my criteria to judge the quality of a practionner.

[pierre267]

Well, i do not know what you are refering to when you say " Empty and dilapidated" if its not about the people you are demonstrating katori shinto ryu in the video. Glancing videos and your comment suggest that you are a "neophyte". I agree, these people are not Otake but still give a good "glance" and maybe more......

[espaceautodefense]

Bonjour Pierre267, depuis notre dernière discussion. J'ai visionné beaucoup et lu sur l'aikibudo. Plus je découvre ce système et plus je trouve cela intelligent comme système. C'est une possibilité que j'explorerai possiblement dans les années futures même si je n'aime pas les combats de bâton! Continuez votre bon enseignement.

[pierre267]

Bonjour à tous les pratiquants d'aikibudo du Québec du Canada ou membres de la fédération internationnal d'aikibudo vous êtes la bienvenue d'aller voir la page sur facebook " AAKQ Aikibudo Canada Québec "

[pierre267]

En ce qui concerne la partie historique, tu as tout a fait raison. La différence entre les trois c'est la recherche de l'individu.Car bien que les tecniques soient similaires, elles ne s'exécutent pas avec le même exprit. L'aikibudo n'est pas à confondre avec un sport de combat. Ou un sport de combat ultime. Donc pour moi, un art axé sur la défense et qui n'a aucun lien avec les sports d'attaque. Ton ami est probablement plus à la recherche d'un sport de combat pour se mesurer.

[espaceautodefense]

Le problème d'un grand nombre de personne qui pratique un art martial est qu'il croit que son art martial est supérieur au autres comme par exemple le judo dans ce cas-ci. Évidemment chaque art martiaux à un but différent et comprend également ses forces et faiblesses. Cependant, je crois fermement qu'il n'existe pas d'art martiaux supérieur aux autres mais simplement des combattants de niveau différent. Le respect doit exister entre les discipline et envers les sensei.

[leandroken]

How come you guys have dans if Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu grades are in Menkyo System?

[pierre267]

The rank that we have is in Titles. That is in the ancient way of recognising the aptitude of a student. (in a way)From beginner, learner, knowing the program, being a certified teacher, being the right arm of the teacher and being as one wiyh the teacher (Soke). Competition and performing martial arts brought ranks in Dan. The old way of title disapeard, but they stil exist and corresponds with ranks in dan. I am Menkyo Shoden witch is like a 5th Dan or 6th Dan. And for my english Beginner

[pierre267]

I was wondering why do you compare those two words??? Are you refering to Infrason that said he would rather watch Otake sensei. In that case you are right. Otake is the soke of KTSTR. But when people talk about a person and there teaching they refer to the terme sensei. Its a little bit like when people refer to Ushiba Sensei or O sensei. Mas Oyama sensei.

[pierre267]

Got it

In fact if you read again you will see that the explanation was on why people have dans and not title. And in ( ) at the end of the ranks being as one with the "teacher" wicth is also the Soke. But you are right if you mean that the Soke is the head master of a style. Is that correct...

[pierre267]

I will explain again because i dont think we are talking about the same thing.

1) the first comment was why people have Dan

2) the responds was, an explanation on why people have Dan an other tiltle

3) your comment talking about the difference between teacher and Soke

4) My respond Not understanding why you talk about that

5) your reply saying i might be dojo cho but not soke

????

[pierre267]

What are you talking about?????? Nobody is saying that there are this or that. Just explanation on terms. You are right the only Soke is Otake. But did you know that like Otake there were 2 other "Soke" for TSKSR??

[pierre267]

No... It means that the soke recognises that is student as full knoledge of the art. But you are right the terme soke refers to the founder or the person that henérits (in french l'héritier) the direction of a school and is the "gardien" of the tradition of the school.

Some scholls before the 1868 kept the title. But most of the modern (after 1868 or 1900) straded a grading system of Kyu and Dan. Mostly besause of Jigoro Kano in 1882 with Judo.

[pierre267]

So both remain... That is wright..

That was what i was explaining in my first comment.

For Sugino sensei (Father) He would not give Kyu. White blet until the black belt. On the certificat (diploma) it would read ( i think) Kiri Kami Shoden (Sorry, i do not read Japenese) but he would write 1 dan. So we could understand. This was persued by Hatakeyama sensei. Who is Menkyo Kaiden and not Soke of TSKSR.

[pierre267]

So i cant say the title desapeared because my original grade are in title. Like i explain in an other comment. But the title does not realy mather.. Discovering TSKSR his already a gift. And mostly thanks to Mochizuki Sensei... The third "Soke" (hériier) of TSKSR

[pierre267]

Well i can see that i will always be wrong.The TSKSR did not have any soke after the 19 generation. the last was Kinijiro Iizasa (19e Soke). The 20th does not teach. The japenese cultural place TSKSR as a national treasor (trésor) and appointed 3 masters to perpetuate the heritage and the culture of TSKSR in 1960. Yes they are not "SOKE" in the japenese traditional way because they are not blood line related. But they transmit there knoledge and experience and heritage in there own way. MERCI!

[goraisan]

C'est dommage que ce dojo soit trop loin de chez-moi!

[pooflo123]

Very good, nothing but thumbs up!

The stark movements are amazing, Im reading "The Five Rings" and was think about that during the vid, and then I see the two sword tecnique!! very cool.

[henjokongo]

There is some speculation that Musashi may have been inspired by watching sword practice by Spaniards who were doing so with a rapier and dagger. Interesting to think that the West may have influenced the formation of "Eastern" martial arts. I guess anything is possible.

[pierre267]

Well i did not know that. Actually i surched the web for the actual years of the practice by the spaniads and there visit to japan and it does concur.

[leogan]

TSKSR is older than Musashi, so, MUsashi was not the first one using 2 swords

[henjokongo]

These guys kick butt!

[zoulou360]

Très bon vidéo

[valprval]

Excellente techinique! Vidéo très impressionant! Félicitations à vous

[richiesuk]

Nice Video,

hope meet you guys in the future.

I am Hatakeyama's student too,in Europe.

Richard

[belleasi1]

Verry impressed! Hope never meet a guy like that on the street! It must take many years to reach this level of precision, speed and fluidity. They look so young I can't believe they've got such an experience ! They are top shape wow!

[leylooca]

Une belle démonstration de cet art encore méconnue. J'aime bien l'aspect grande rapidité ce qui rend le kata réalisme et bien execute

[Happoken]

Bravo Messieurs! Très belle exécution des kata et bon choix musical. Un petit commentaire pour M.Fucker. Plus vous parlé, plus vous démontré votre inexpérience. Prenez la peine de regarder les dernières 30sec du vidéo et vous allez peut-être comprendre la subtilité d'un vrai combat au sabre (et par le fait même le pourquoi des lames qui ce touche très peu). Sinon, retournez donc sur les tatamis et Keiko!

[kannit2]

Je vois que la personne qui avait émis son commentaire que les lames ne se touchait pas, est disparu. J'imagine que mon commentaire disait vrai sur son expérience martiale. Le film est d'une qualité technique inouï. Beaucoup de précision dans les gestes et une vitesse d'exécution incroyable. Désolé pierre267 mon commentaire était à L'irresponsable qui se cachait derrière ses propos sans fondement.

[Aikibudofucker]

Désolé si je ne passe pas ma vie à commenter des vidéos comme vous. Cela dit, j'ai pratiqué l'aikibudo et le katori shinto ruy durant pas tout à fait 3 ans. Sous la supervision de Sensei Julien FREREJEAN (5e Dan) au Dojo Ruocco en Provence.

Maintenant, du point de vue de maints aikibudokas français, l'aikibudo ainsi que le kobudo du Québec est pratiqué sans rigueur, sans finition, avec AUCUN RÉALISME et il n'existe aucune uniformité dans l'enseignement entre les dojos.

[Aikibudofucker]

De plus, faire les Kata comme exécuté dans cette vidéo (sans même essayer d'atteinte le Uke) n'illustre nullement la philosophie martiale du Budo.

[kannit2]

Vous avez pratiqué en Provence avec M.Frerejean. Vous avez donc constaté que l'aikibudo n'était pas réaliste et que les gens là-bas chutaient avec complaisance. Vous insultez M. Frerejean ainsi que ses élèves qui ne le mérite pas et qui ont une bonne réputation. De plus vous insultez les Québecois chez qui, vous avez prit domicile. Si vous aviez été présent au cours de M. Frerejean (en esprit). Vous auriez remarqué l'art de l'esquive. La vidéo est trop rapide pour vous.

[Raph333]

Tu as pratiquer seuleument 3 ans et tu te PERMET de faire des commentaires de la sorte?

Vien faire un tour au dojo pour voir si tu va chuter par complaisance!

[pierre267]

En ce qui concerne vos commentaires sur le TSKSR. Effectivement si vous recherchez l'efficacité à son maximum. Il faut absolument magasiner dans un magasin d'armes à feu le plus près de chez vous. Désolé si on ne se tranche pas la tête pour vous faire plaisir.L'AAKQ est la seule association du Québec qui recoit depuis 30 ans Maître Floquet et qui suit son enseignement. Pour vos remarques sur l'efficacité de l'Aikibudo il faut donc s'adresser à lui.

[pierre267]

En passant Kannit2 Si c'est si pouuri, enlève nous de tes favoris c'est un peu incohérent avec ton discour. HA HA... si tu veux continuez de voir ce qu'on fait sois gentil...

[pierre267]

Content de voir qu'après quelques heures de mise en onde il y a beaucoup de visionnement et de commentaires. Et ce qu'ils soient bons ou mauvais. Toutefois je suis tout a fait d'accord avec les commentaires, ce n'est pas un sport de combat mais un art. L'important c'est de faire découvrir l'art du TSKSR. Comme un Maître a déjà dit "Keiko, beaucoup Keiko"

[22kage]

Rei !

[kannit2]

L'image est meilleure en haute qualité

[kannit2]

L'image est meilleure en haute qualité!

[nichiren9117]

Thanks to Jean and Pierre for taking the time to do this video, its a very nice overview. good job :)

[Cronsen]

And those people are high ranked...

[LeandreBSide]

Yes they are and the video doesn't quite do them justice, trust me.

[pilgrimcarsten]

This ist not aikibudo.

What ist shown here ist called "Tenshin shoden katori shinto ryu". It's a koryu: One of the oldest martial arts of japan.

It ist taught by Sugino Yukihiro in Kawasaki and Otak Risuke in Narita.

Please excuse my "bad french". Sorry for that.

[Aikibudofucker]

Vos lames ne se touchent pas d'un centime! C'est peut-être bien joli de voir tout ça, mais avouez que ça ne sert strictement à que dalle! Tout comme le reste de l'art qu'est l'Aikibudo qui ne fonctionne seulement que contre celui que vous appelez le "Uke". Avouez que s'il ne vous aidait pas à faire votre technique,combien de fois l'auriez-vous vraiment réussit?

[LeandreBSide]

1) Ce sont des katas. Si les bokkens se touchent trop fort, c'est un manque de contrôle. Donc, ce n'est pas nécessairement une mauvaise chose.

2) Ça parait que tu fais pas d'Aiki...

[kannit2]

Aucune connaissance des arts martiaux pour interpréter cela de cette façon. Vous devez pratiquer l'art pour la connaître et il est évident que votre pratique est limité, ou sinon nul. La pratique d'un art ne doit pas se vivre à travers un écran, mais plutôt sur le tatami, afin de mieux expérimenter et de mieux le ressentir.