C.J.'s briefing

[Sonnabend00]

And after Prt Arthur, how many criminals handed in their guns? NONE.

[gunsnroses2020]

Also,and I don't know if there are more cases like this.Kennesaw,GA passed a mandatory gun ownership ordinance in 1982."When the law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime & we have maintained a really low crime rate since then," said police Lt. Craig Graydon. "We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area."The population in the town has increased from 5000 then to ~30000 in 2007.The latest data I can find is from 1982-97, only 1 gun murder occurred.

[gunsnroses2020]

Gun control has really worked in the UK: "The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent."-DailyMail.

"In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent."-Evening Standard.

[nnassar11]

"If anyone thinks those crimes could have been prevented if the victims themselves had been carrying guns, I'd only remind you that the President of the United States was shot last night while surrounded by the best trained armed guards in the history of the world"

[TualhaCat]

This clip is a poor argument against gun ownership. People who shoot at real or fictional presidents know that their own deaths are a likely result. Common criminals are not so dedicated. Gary Kleck's research shows that Americans use guns defensively 2.5 million times every year. Most of the time, the would-be victim simply displays a weapon, whereupon the criminal, not being suicidal, runs away.

[Magnetohydrodynamics]

I don't think there has been more than 10 (and that's generous) deliberate gun murders in my lifetime in my home country. I live in Denmark.

[devldg26]

Typical fear-mongering.

[stringerboi]

Actually just to let you people know about gun control:

Private Businesses dont have to allow people to carry guns, because the 2nd amendment isnt incorporated into state rights, nor does it force privatized business to comply. Remember the bill of rights is a federal issue, which means the government cant stop you from carrying it. They can place limits such as a gun permit, etc.

Privatized business have their own set of rules, and they call the shots. Look up incorporation people.

[RudeBhoy21]

Living in the UK it has always been nonsensical to me that top protect your constitutional rights the US seems okay with 30,000+ gun deaths per annum. You cannot recall all guns in cirulation but you simply have to start somewhere. Limits of one per person, re-vetting of licenses every 2 years...come on guys, it has to stop! The world stands back in horror watching your country self destruct with legally owned firearms. I appreciate it's your right but isn't it worth the sacrafice?

[Sonnabend00]

@RudeBhoy21 99% of all gun deaths are by 43ither crims being shot by legal gun owners in self defence or by criminals with illegal guns.

[sparrowofglory]

it's not so much about law as it is about culture. by changing the law, they are trying to make a small step to change a culture.

why is possessing a gun believed to be a good thing by some? why does it give some people the feeling of safety?

for me, i would feel edgy and scared if i had a gun in my house. like having a bomb in a box in my closet.

a gun cannot make you safe.

a gun invites violence into your home.

[Sonnabend00]

@sparrowofglory Because the criminal has one. The gun invites violence into your home? No.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 Imagine that day in Arizona. Remember, there was a lone gunman.

Tell me something..... what would happen if there was another person there with a gun? It might get a little confusing, right?

What if there were 15 or 20 other people there that day who also had a gun? Imagine if they all tried to take matters into their own hands with their guns...... at the same time.

[Sonnabend00]

@aswar87 Yes lets imagine the guy in Arizona with the gun he should never have had. He already had a criminal record...hence an ILLEGAL gun.  I can imagine that scenario actually..the nutter would be dead by now.Plainclothes cops carry guns as well. Sparrow, I dont care if you choose to be armed or not, I DO CARE that people like you think you have the right how to tell ME to live and whether or not I can defend myself and my home.

Gun control disarms the law abiding and no one else.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 Funny. The second amendment was written during a time when people had muskets (however you spell that, I don't really care). You know.... the weapon that took a long time to load and was about as accurate as a slingshot, and only a little more lethal than a slingshot. Really? The shooter would be dead by now?

I will respond the same way Bill Maher responds to that claim..... "That is your fantasy, asshole!"

This isn't a Tom Clancy novel. This isn't a Western.

[Sonnabend00]

@aswar87 What part of "shall not be infringed" dont you understand? Oh and Heller Vs US already shot you down in flames...you HAVE read the USSC decision that stated gun ownership was an absolute right, havent you?

97 percent of all gun crime is committed with ILLEGAL guns. Criminals do not obey the law hence gun laws do nothing.Why pass more laws when they disregard the ones already there.

Gun control disarms the law abiding and no one else. Fact. Deal with it.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 So you are upset that liberals want to tell you how to live?

Conservatives on gay marriage - enough said.

How about flag burning? That is free speech and is part of the 1st Amendment, and doesn't hurt anyone. Yet you right-wingers think "IT MUST STOP" lol.

[Sonnabend00]

@aswar87 Gay marriage? Couldnt care less.. Flag burning? Go right ahead, just remember that actions have consequences.

Gun control disarms the law abiding and no one else.

Bottom line.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 I don't care. The majority of you woodland critters do constantly think about gay marriage and flag burning. So I will paint you all with a wide brush.

So what does that mean? "actions have consequences"?

What, is some hick going to be unable to control himself and start shooting?

After Obama got elected gun ammo started flying off the shelves (especially in places like rural Oklahoma). So yeah, you are right...... actions have consequences. Rural bed-wetting being one of them.

[Sonnabend00]

@aswar87 Whether you care or not isnt my problem. I should have the right to decide for myself whether to be armed or not. You have no right to moralise to me, or anyone else. Go ahead and sneer all you like..it just proves that you have contempt for the rights of others based on your own narrow values..such as they are.

Gun control disarms the law abiding and no one else.

Bottom line.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 So should private businesses be forced to let customers bring a gun into their buildings if the customer chooses? After all, it IS in the constitution that every person has that right. Come on man, it's the Second Amendment!

Doesn't matter anyway. As guns become more and more taboo (although ever-so-slowly), people will begin to change their views on guns. They same way they began to realize that gay marriage was OK and universal healthcare probably won't turn America RED.

[Sonnabend00]

@aswar87 So should private businesses be forced to let customers bring a gun into their buildings if the customer chooses?

Yes. And if they dont and the customer is shot because he was disarmed because of the owners policy,then he should be able to sue the shit out of him. Guns? Taboo? Only to anti gun nuts. Criminals changing their minds on guns? BWAHAHAHAHAH

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 So you think the government should tell private businesses what they can and can't allow into their stores?

btw, I should be laughing at you because most private businesses in fact do not allow people to bring guns into their buildings.

People don't care about your guns and they don't care about what you try to prove by saying you have guns.

[fidelio1980]

Another argument that makes no sense is, "criminals will just be able to use baseball bats or knives." Then, using that logic, you don't need a gun for protection, right? You can just use a baseball bat or a knife!

[fidelio1980]

The UK and Australia have much, much, much lower rates of gun crimes than the U.S., so they're hardly good examples of why gun laws don't work.

I'm somewhere in the middle on gun control. But I can acknowledge that there are certain arguments that are just ridiculous. One is, "gun laws can't stop illegal guns." That's just false - gun laws can stop some guns from being made. And they can stop people who aren't supposed to have them from buying them at gun shows without background checks.

[Bamont]

There's no doubt that it's easier to kill someone with a gun than it is with a knife, baseball bat, etc. However - what some of you seem to not understand is that the precedent for owning guns has already been set. It would take decades upon decades to get them from citizens that own them LEGALLY - it would take longer than that to get them off the streets ILLEGALLY, and then we'd STILL have a gun problem here in America. It only makes sense to let citizens keep them legally for protection.

[Sonnabend00]

@Bamont The government will NEVER get "all the guns back" 2nd amendment. Case closed.

[David94SWE]

If the White House were like this for real.. Man would the world be better.

[nudist0885]

In case some of you didn't watch all of the episodes, there was a scene once during the "CAPITOL BEAT" program (Ted McGinley as Mark Gottfried) where Toby Ziegler was confronting the character being portrayed by Corbin Bernsen. The discussion was on gun crime in America. At one point Toby said "I do know that if you take the populations of (and he named 8 different countries) you'll have roughly the same population as the US.

We had 13,000 shooting deaths last year, they had 112.

[tfn105]

In fact, Toby said 30,000, not 13,000. And yes, speaks volumes about American policy on guns

[karlsantos]

The main problem I see is that the right to bear arms is conflicting with the right to freedom and safety.

How?

Simply because if everyone has the right to have a gun inevitably people without the necessary mental stability and sense of responsability will have guns.

Only capable people should be able to carry a gun.

Of corse that creates the problem of "who decides".

In my opinion one license for any number of guns. But to get the license go through psychiatric evaluation every few years.

[lambent77777]

Why don't you just go back to 1984 and feed the hogs on your Animal Farm.

[Unklespike]

@karlsantos Then its just a case of survival of the fittest!

[karlsantos]

But part of the good of living in a civilized society is that the fittest can be the guy that better handles the computer mouse.

If we go back to survival by violence we are de-evolving as a species.

And trial by fire in such a way is not very christian either, is it?

[HotPiratesWench]

tell it girl, tell it!

love this, makes me tear up.

aw danny, everyones favorite reporter!

[pw44vzs4]

US 10,000 deaths a year from shootings, UK 9, in the year of columbine. Gun laws don't work? idiots.

[Sonnabend00]

@pw44vzs4 show me one instance, just one, of gun laws stopping criminals form getting their hands on what they want. They don't. FIVE drive by shootings in the last week.

[TualhaCat]

@pw44vzs4 The UK homicide rate is about 1/4 that in the US, not 9/10000. If you ban guns, that may lower the homicide rate *by gun*, but criminals will still have knives and other weapons.

[orjanst1]

@TualhaCat Thus reducing the homicide rate because no other weapons are "as" lethal. I add the "" because lethal is a finite sum. It either is or it is not. You'll be just as dead after getting stabbed 17 times... But guns make killing easy. All you do is point and click. There is hardly an effort involved, you know, except for the tremendous strain on the human phsyce. And once you pull the trigger, there is no going back. With a knife, you can stop after the first stab.

[theforeman118]

gun laws don't work. but a better education system would

[beanieboy007]

We can only hope.

But its sure worth the effort to try.

[alrobin]

Criminals get guns because they feel the need to protect themselves from other criminals that already have guns. These guns give them the false confidence hat they are now a force to be reckoned with and it gives them power. Self defense is just a very effective marketing strategy to sell more guns because no matter who you are, you want to feel "safe".

[Sonnabend00]

alrobin: whatever it is you are smoking.

STOP

[Sonnabend00]

In this country, possession of a firearm for home self defence is illegal.

You can be arrested and charged for the crime of defending yourself.

[Sonnabend00]

Gun laws stop possession of illegal guns the same way underage drinking laws stop teenagers from getting drunk. ;)

That is my point.

[NickLeyland]

So what happens next? I have a bigger gun than you do. You get to throw a grenade in my direction as I have a gun.

Gun control is the 1st major step in getting guns of the street. I have no problem with people having a gun I want them to have a police background check every time that they purchase a gun and every time they purchase ammunition.

Before you start reciting to me the protection of guns under the US constitution I'd ask you to look at Europe's gun crime statistics.

[Sonnabend00]

I live in a country with gun laws.Lots and lots of them.Loads of laws and restrictions. Gun crimes every single day. Robberies. Murders Rapes Home invasions Gang wars Drive by shootings. Carjackings at gunpoint. Gun laws do not in any way shape or form stop criminals from getting their hands on guns. The UK is discussing KNIFE control now.

[Jermbot15]

"I live in a country with gun laws"

I think what you mean to say is that you live in a country with, per capita, less crime and gun laws.

"Gun laws do not in any way shape or form stop criminals from getting their hands on guns."

Good, it makes criminals easier to spot, just look for the guy with the illegally obtained fire arm.

[Sonnabend00]

I live in a country with gun laws and a spiralling crime rate.

Yeah we do look for the guiy with the illegal gun..when he shoves it in your face, robs or rapes you.

Gun control: the idea that a woman raped and strangled is somehow morally superior to explaining how that rapist got that hole between his eyes.

[Jermbot15]

"Gun control: the idea that a woman raped and strangled is somehow morally superior to explaining how that rapist got that hole between his eyes."

Ahh, please refer back to the point made in this video. The data in my country has shown that her having access to a gun probably wouldn't have stopped the crime, and criminals having legal access to guns would have caused this crime to happen to 3 other women that night.

[Sonnabend00]

Criminals use ILLEGAL guns, thats why they are called criminals.

Oh the UK has loads of gun laws...shootings are through the roof. We have gun laws..a man got shot today.

Yep..laws work.

NOT.

[Jermbot15]

"Oh the UK has loads of gun laws..."

That's nice.

"shootings are through the roof."

If you're shooting through the roof something's wrong.

"We have gun laws..a man got shot today."

That's a tragedy, lets see how many people try to turn it into a political football to avoid honest debate.

"Yep..laws work."

Oh good, so you recognize that more criminals would have guns and more people would be getting shot without gun control laws.

[Sonnabend00]

Knives are used during armed robberies at between 2 and 3 times the level of firearms. This paper brings together new data on robbery, noting the strong presence of knives.

Do I hear a call for knife control?

[Emsta]

Control guns and yes, I'll think about removing the steak knives and carving knives from my kitchen.

[Sonnabend00]

Yeah yeah guns are bad...Mark Davis and Sheila were killed by an ILLEGAL gun. We have homicides and gun crime in Australia and we have loads of gun laws..which do NOTHING to stop 98 percent of all gun crime being committed with ILLEGAL GUNS.

I defy anyone, anywhere, to show me how gun laws stop possession of ILLEGAL guns.

They don't. Left that out, didn't you CJ?

[whatsn3xt]

I guess you have a point. Or I guess I get what you're trying to say. But there being no laws against gun possession, then I guess there's no such thing as an "ILLEGAL" gun. Anyway, human beings are naturally violent - with or without weapons. So you're probably right - that is if you're saying there's no need for laws.

Gun laws stop possession of illegal guns the same way underage drinking laws stop teenagers from getting drunk. ;)

[Emsta]

I don't think we are inherently violent. Mind you, I do come from a line of over 350 years of non-violence so...

[orjanst1]

@whatsn3xt Perhaps not the best example... Drinking laws drastically reduces underage drinking. (Although, noone would be underage if the law didn't exist). It makes it more difficult to obtain, and it shifts public opinion.

[DamiettadCarnivalle]

@whatsn3xt Where do you get your "facts"?

There ARE laws against gun possession. Certain weapons are illegal for the average citizen [read: non-military entity] to have in his or her possession.  Some of those weapons are RPGs, and some of them are guns.

At the other end of the spectrum are individuals who are prohibited by law from possessing ANY kind of gun, such as convicted felons, parolees, and ex-convicts.

There you go, two instances in which there are indeed ILLEGAL GUNS.

[akitomizuki]

@Sonnabend00 "And if anyone thinks those crimes could've been prevented if the victims themselves had been carrying guns, I'd only remind you that the President of the United States was shot last night while surrounded by the best trained armed guards in the history of the world."

[Ms1topcat]

@Sonnabend00  how find this show now

[andyt2k]

@Sonnabend00 how about not having millions of guns floating around the country making it so easy for someone to get their hands on one legally or illegally that almost everyone has one, if no one has a gun, no one needs a gun

[Sonnabend00]

@andyt2k I live in a nation with massive gun laws, and the criminals can get their hands on guns EASILY. Washington has massive gun bans and gun crime is skyrocketing. UK has massive gun laws and gun crime is out of control.

Gun control DOES NOT WORK. In the UK they are now talking KNIFE control....you dont get it and you never will.

[quedasobravo]

@Sonnabend00 I'm quoting another poster around here. "US 10,000 deaths a year from shootings, UK 9, in the year of Columbine". I'm sorry, but don't you think does are some compelling numbers? And the numbers of homicides in Australia are also drastically lower, compared to the US. Gun laws don't stop ALL crime, but it is undeniable that they help a lot. Put it another way - show me a country whose crime rates got WORSE by having gun control. Go on, I'll wait...

[Sonnabend00]

@quedasobravo No they dont stop gun crime. Gun laws affect the law abiding. No one else. Worse crime rate? Try the UK, gun crime is spiralling. Whats the city of the US with massive gun control? Washington DC. Whats the city with one of the worst gun crime rates? Washington DC.

[quedasobravo]

@Sonnabend00 10.000 deaths US / 9 deaths UK --> until you justify this discrepancy with anything other than gun control, I'll just take your empty points as the desperate flailings of a hopeless demagogue...

[Sonnabend00]

@quedasobravo In the US, you have the right of self defence, the Castle Doctrine..here we have the right to get down and beg for our lives, disarmed, Two weeks ago a man was hacked to death in his own home. He had no gun to defend himself, the criminals were armed, he was not. Gang members in gun battles. Armed robberies every day. Bank robberies. Shootings every day. Gun murders. Home invasions..at gunpoint.Carjackings, at gunpoint.

I live here and you do not. I know and you do not.

[Sonnabend00]

@quedasobravo 97-98 percent of all gun crime is with illegal weapons. Police have already stated they are powerless to stop the criminal gun trade in this country. Gun laws do not in any way deter the criminal element, nor has it ever. Gun laws affect the law abiding and no one else. I am no "demagogue"..I live here and I know.

[quedasobravo]

@Sonnabend00 10 THOUSAND deaths to 9! You guys are amazing changing the subject. I'm even going to bother explaining the concept of the spiral of violence why it's ludicrous to believe that giving more people guns will stave off gun crime... I just want you to explain that number. Are americans just that more violent? Really? While you're at it, you could also explain the nobility of the NRA lobbying to block laws to get uzis of the street... "Law abiding" citizens need uzis, too?

[Sonnabend00]

@quedasobravo The sole purpose of gun control is to disarm the law abiding. And by the way, a large number of those deaths, more than 97 percent, were with illegal guns. Good luck getting the guns off the crips, or the bloods, or the drug smugglers, or the carjackers, or the armed robbers, or the rapists....

[CMOT101]

@Sonnabend00 except murders using guns are rare in the UK (where I live). Strangely enough the police are so concerned will illegal guns that the majority of them are NOT armed. Wouldn't you like to live in a country where the police feel that with only a few exceptions, they do not need nor want to carry guns?

Our main concern is actually knife crime which is a problem. Strangely the law is not as strict on carrying knives. You do the maths.

[Sonnabend00]

@CMOT101 RARE???? Gun crime and gun murders happen every day in the UK. Cops not carry guns? The day when crooks cant get em which will be never. Bottom line: gun laws exist and serve to disarm the law abiding, and no one else.

Yeah I heard about that, now they are talking KNIFE control. HGow's it feel living in a land where the citizen is disarmed and the criminals can do what they please? Say hi to Londonistan for me.

[CMOT101]

@Sonnabend00 I don't know which part of the UK you are living in, but I live in what used to be called the gun capital of Britain and guess what, never seen a gun, guns are rarely on the news, and very little gun crime. Bottom line is gun control works. Thats why the majority of police officers do NOT carry guns nor want to. Thats why the figures for gun crime are low, thats why when gun crime does happen, it is treated as a big deal by the media. Stop exaggerating, it aint true!

[Sonnabend00]

@CMOT101 I live in Aus, not the UK thank God. It isnt true?

According to the MPCS figures, the number of “gun-enabled crimes” has risen from 2,961 in 199 to 3,295 in 2009 and the number of “knife-enabled crimes” for the period 2003 to 2009–10 rose from 10,305 to 12,611.

THREE THOUSAND? Gun control works riiigghttttttt

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 You missed her whole point.

She wasn't trying to argue the point about making guns illegal. The point she was making is that the whole idea of more guns making people safer is nonsense.

[aswar87]

@Sonnabend00 You left out the comparisons between the amount of gun crimes in America and Australia.

[rosebasil]

@Sonnabend00 yeah we in Australia do have gun laws. Talk to the survivors and the family members of the Port Arthur massacre and of the gun related incidents around Australia. I dont think they would be wanting to change any of our laws. The reduction in the amount of guns available, shouldn't that be the key point, like what Australia has done and what CJ is suggesting through this?

There will always be gun deaths due to the fact that guns have been invented, but we cant change that.

[Akrnboy]

This show rocks..... It should have never went off the air. This is one of my favorite clips.

[iheartbillb]

what episode is this, and what season??.

[larrymcg421]

In the Shadow of Two Gunmen. Season 2 Premiere.

[classiqfemme]

i remember sobbing when i first saw this. thanks for uploading.

[JDashHen]

Thank you! I was hoping someone would upload this clip!