@gtepp031387 acts 24:5 for we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the natsarene. so if paul was a nazarene when did he become a christian...so he was leader of two sects? he couldn't have been a christian because ignatuis was the first to use the term christian. acts 24:14...according to the way which they call a sect,....not christian.
@tflowdatru "ignatuis was the first to use the term christian."
Not true at all acts was writtin in about 60 A.D. and St Luke used the word Christian in Acts 11:26...It is a rather stange that in Antioch the individual believers where first called Christian and in the same place the church was first called Catholic... See a conection?
@gtepp031387 no that is any insert. if ignatuis was the first to use the term christian. how could luke or any of the apostle use the term first. that would mean they would have came up with the term catholism. and that mean it would have been them to use the word first not ignatius. plus they would have use hebrew langauge to coin that term.
@tflowdatru "no that is any insert. if ignatuis was the first to use the term christian."
What are you talking about I gave the verse in the Acts of St Luke who uses the word, are you claiming that verse is forged?
Catholic means whole or universal it is from the Greek litterally meaning concerning the whole, it is a combination of the two words, Jesus uses the term whole and complete several times in the bible, as well as the apostles
continue...so could that mean that the gentiles were, as they believed to be defining the teachings of the apostles regarding who christ is? because the divinity of christ had been endorsed by a some community of christians in pagan city of rome. remember the gentiles had no knowledge of Yah or of Yahshua. and ignatius was the first to use the term christian. matthew 2:23 and came and dwelt in a city called natsareth thus to fill what was spoken by the prophets, " he shall be called a natsarene
@gtepp031387 let me ask you a question...when did the holy days stop being practiced among those that believed in the messiah. according to the first council of nicaea they told them to stop practicing the jewish custom and follow the customs of the romans and the customs that they been following. plus the main accomplishment were settlement of christological issue of the relationship of jesus to god the father.and the debates came from among the gentile community.
just like i said before he wasn't on one accord with the rest of the apostles. through out acts you can see that paul keep his cultural practices going into assemblies on the sabbath day and have the gentiles attending sabbats as well. he kept the holydays, dietary laws and all the customs of his people. ignatius was the start of christianity. which is a greek term coined by him. the apostles were hebrews who had a hebrew way of thinking. the terms they would use would be hebraic.
ignatius was one that studied gnosticism and other mysticism. he was one of the ones the apostles was warning those that followed the faith to look out for. 1st timothy 4:1-5, 1st timothy 1:5-10
@tflowdatru Are you kidding me! ignatus gave his life for the faith! And anyone that would dare speak against him s a servant of the devil...GOD bless St Ignatius...Ignatius was taugh and ordained face to face by the apotles. You are one of the teachers worned about in 1st timothy.
@gtepp031387 according to what you saying i would be speaking against scriptures and truth. according to the scriptures laws and commandments is truth. you can read that in psalms 119:142, psalms 119:151 psalms 119:160, psalms 119:169. and according to acts 2:1 everyone was on one accord. your saint isn't on the same accord as the apostles.
@tflowdatru "your saint isn't on the same accord as the apostles."
Intresting that the apostles sure thought he was as they choose and ordained him, teaching him, face to face, what they knew.Are you saying the apostles desicion was wrong?And name me one thing that Ignatius ever taught that was against scripture?The use of certain books and not others by Ignatius is the measure on which the church knew what the approved books of the scripture where, without him your bible would b very different
@gtepp031387 well i can name several things that goes against the scriptures that he taught. he was the first deities the messiah, the first to argue the favor of christianity replacement of the sabbath with the lords day, he was the first to use the term " katholikos" meaning "universal" "complete" and "whole" to describe the church. we didn't operate accord to the process that the most high had establish through a covenant with his chosen people. he was the first to use the word christian.
@tflowdatru "the first to argue the favor of christianity replacement of the sabbath with the lords day"
Actually the bible makes this pretty clear in several places, even in the OT we cazn see a case for the LORDs day. As well as Barnabas was the first outside of the bible to speak of the the LORDs day replacment.
@gtepp031387 the lord day is a day of wrath....plus the word lord in the old testament is actually the name Yah...lord is just a tell the father established his name through out the old testament to his people he choose to be a priest and priestess to the other nations
@gtepp031387 the word church is greek and it not refering to an assembly it refering to a god or goddess if you do your etomyology of that word the hebrew used is qahal and the greek term is ekklesia...not church. so where do that word come from
@gtepp031387 no do your research and see that the credit goes to ignatius...luke speak hebrew christian is greek not hebrew translate christian in hebrew and see what you make of it.
@gtepp031387just like i said before he wasn't on one accord with the rest of the apostles. through out acts you can see that paul keep his cultural practices going into assemblies on the sabbath day and have the gentiles attending sabbats as well. he kept the holydays, dietary laws and all the customs of his people. ignatius was the start of christianity. which is a greek term coined by him. the apostles were hebrews who had a hebrew way of thinking. the terms they would use would be hebraic.
@tflowdatru Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
@gtepp031387 you have to read the rest of isaiah. they were being disobedience and bringing their offerings not in a sincere manner they were just using the scarificial laws in vain it wasn't doing anything to their consciences. so the most high told them he would remove them from the land and the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths....isaiah 66:22-24 show you that in the end times everyone shall worship before him on these events.
@tflowdatru Look at Acts 20:7.. It is interesting to note that St. Paul had spent a week with the community in Troas (Acts 20:6), and this is the only reported time that he celebrated the "breaking of bread" with them. Also no remarks are made later in this passage that St. Paul disapproved of their worship on Sunday. One would expect St. Paul to object to this practice, if it were rooted in paganism.
@gtepp031387 act 20:6 tells you that they came together after day of unleaven bread....during days of unleaven bread they couldn't eat anything that had yeast in it...nor have anything that was leaven or yeast in their house. once it was over the custom is to come together afterwards and feast. and thats what they were doing they wasn't having any day of worship it was just a fellowship gathering.
@tflowdatru "And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; ... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead." ~ Justin Martyr around 150 A.D.
@gtepp031387 this is coming from justin martyr who had no encourter with none of the apostles but with some old man who told him about christianity then he decided he would teach for himself. this mans background is of pagan origins and mutiple philosophers from those that had no ideal of the bible.
@tflowdatru Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
@gtepp031387 on the days of unleaven bread you have two days that you come together that is the 1st day of unleaven bread and the seventh day you have i holy gathering.according to the scriptures once the sun goes down its the next day. so paul had gathered with them on the sabbath and his reasoning with them extended into midnight which would have been the next day ones saturday night had came. genesis 1:5...
@gtepp031387in corinthians it just say that he told them to make a collection on the first day so when he comes there it won't be any collection going on. no where do it states to come to gather on the first day and worship or that the most high commandment to come together. so when paul was rushing back to jerusalem to keep the holy days as it was his customs why not enforce that into christianity. i don't see where paul was not keeping the holy days that was commandment by him by the most high
@gtepp031387 what about festival of weeks that paul kept, act 20:16, or unleaven bread acts 20:6, acts 12:3, acts 2:1. did yahshua( jesus) keep the sabbath day.before he died? did he teach order not to come together on the sabbath day?
@tflowdatru Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says "let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath."
2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
@gtepp031387 no it says sabbaths plural...what about new moons? and what about the festival...what festival are he talking about? he said don't let anyone judge you in these things. so when you proform or keep this ordiance you are in complainance with paul. the festivals he talking about are passover, unleaven bread, sukkoth, all the custom that the hebrews. the new moon was the sames as a festival or a sabbath day. holyday that were order by the most high to keep are all keep sabbaths days.
@tflowdatru sabbaths where but a shadow of things to come my dear seveth day adventist...keep your made up church to yourself my friend. You are heretical, all of the body of christ says anathema to you. I am not trying to be mean but you are very understudied and have fallen in a man made church, that was invented in the last 100 years. You do not obey Jesus becaues if you did you would obey who he left to be over the church.
@tflowdatru Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
@tflowdatru Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
@gtepp031387 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
@gtepp031387 Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
@tflowdatru Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
@tflowdatru "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 100)
@gtepp031387 ephesians 4:4-6 one body and one spirit, as you also were called in one expectation of your calling. one master, one belief, one immersion, one elohim(god) and father of all, who above all, and through all, and you all. 1st timothy 2:5 for there is one elohim, and one mediator, between elohim, and men, the man messiah Yahshua. matthew 23:9 and do not call anyone on earth your father, for one is your father, he who is in the heavens.
@tflowdatru Jesus is the only mediatore, but the Sts are one with and in Jesus with him where he is(john 17:20-26) they are the very body of Christ. Do not call anyone on earth father, yes, but those who live in the spirit "do not belong to the earth" and it is fitting that we call the holy spirit in them father as Paul did himself..."I have become your father through the gosple" 1 Cor 4:15
@gtepp031387 you might want to look at that verse again 1 corinthians 4:15 for though ye have ten thousand instructors in christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in christ jesus i have begotten you through the gospel....he nevers says call me father.
@tflowdatru you might want to look at the verse bud...tell me what does begotten mean?...and do you have a problem with the translation of the original greek and Latin which renders the word to be father?...Not saying begotten is a wrong translation here the word means the same thing....just like doctor means teacher, say do you use the word doctor?...not tpo mention the apostles use the word father in many cases in the bible, John even says you are his children.
@tflowdatru Jesus also used the word father in several places of the scripture. He even uses it in a good light stating that if Abrabam(which means father anyway) was your father you would be doing the works of Abraham...he also calls Satan father of lies.
@gtepp031387 when he is talking about abraham and satan he is using father because abraham is their forefather. and satan is the father of lies referring to his works. but to call him father as a title or as equal to the father which is in heaven he is speaking against.
@tflowdatru No one believes that the church fathers are equal to the father in heaven, so your point is not valid. Father is a title that Jesus gives to several. In fact the full title if you wish to nitpick is CHURCH father...so again they are not father as in heavenly fathers but CHIRCH FATHER as Abraham was the father of all nations, as job was the father to the poor, as Paul is our father through the gosple, as we are the children of John.
@gtepp031387 the pope states that he is the father here on earth and he was anointed by jesus himself to be the father....plus church etymology is coming from the greek goddes circes which posion men her wine and turned them into pigs...so why would the hebrews or the most high choose a word that represents another deity when he states in exodus 23:13 and in all that i have said to you take heed. and make no mention of the name of other mighty ones, let it not be heard from your mou
@tflowdatru The Pope is the father of the church, or elder if you like the word better. He is the vicor of Christ, the successore of Peter and Paul, the holder of the keys of the kingdom, the prince among the bishops, the first, the primate, the protos. He is the chair in which unity is to be maintained by all.
@gtepp031387 thats where you wrong he is not the holder of the keys of the kingdom. show me in the scriptures where it speaks of him being the one that holds the keys to the kingdom. the only one that holds those keys is in heaven. no man can possess that only the father. the pope is not a diety or a holy spirit. if he was you wouldn't be elected a pope every some many years. because the last one died. spirits don't die.
@tflowdatru dude he is the chair of Peter and you should listen to all he has to say, he is the prince of the temperal church, not the world. "I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven"~ Jesus says to Peter...I guess you think when Jesus says YOU he is speaking to himself? The Pope is not a diety and we do not believe such, I don't know where your getting your info but it is way off.
@gtepp031387 revelation 12:9 and the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the devil and satan, decieved the whole world....not some of the world but the whole world. LUKE 4:5-7...and the devil, taking him up on a high mountain, showed him all the reigns of the world in a moment of time. and the devil said to him, all this authority i shall give you and their esteem, for it has been delivered to me, and i give it to whomever i wish. if, then, you worship before me...
@gtepp031387 continues...all shall be yours....see this world is the devils and all the governments, politics, religion, and systems belong to him and rules it all....why would he offer yahshua all the kingdoms if it wasn't his...the whole world is decieved
@tflowdatru what are you talking about?...you are way off topic. Jesus established a church on earth, though they are not of the world they are still located on the earth, the church of Jesus does not belong to the devil..."the church of the living GOD the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Timothy 3:15..."if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." Matthew 18:17
@tflowdatru I also trust more in the Latin Vulgate(the first and original biblia) as a NT/OT scripture, then I do in any other version, I trust the same in the Septuagint for the OT, but of course it doesn't have the NT.
@gtepp031387 see that is the problem you will never understand the scriptures and the new testament thinking with an western or greek mind frame.the hebrews way of thinking was totally different from the greeks that why when the scriptures was translated into the greek the hebrews mourned on that day.
@tflowdatru Dude Hebrew was a dead languide when Jesus came, nearly all the Jews spoke Greek. The offical scripture at the time was the Septuagint(and had been for the last 2 hundred years), and was a lot more organized and accepted then the variety of scrolls that where around in Hebrew many poorly translated without offical sanction. The NT was written in Greek, so how would you understand it better in Hebrew?
@gtepp031387 learn hebrew and compare the languages to see the differences. plus josephuis was an hebrew historian and he stated that most of the hebrews didn't learn greek it was difficult for even him to learn to speak in it and he was fluent. he stated that hebrews would rather feed their kids pork then to learn greek.
@tflowdatru 5) Josephus is largley debated as wether or not he was Jewish, and he wrote around 100 A.D. 30 years after the Jews had rejected Christ at the council of Jamnia, also rejecting the greek lanugide mostly becaues it was an easy way to write off the NT having been written in Greek. Thus returing the Jews to the laungide of Hebrew.
@gtepp031387 so if your early church fathers in there writtens admitt that the scriptures and the letters that was gathered were originally hebrews. when it comes to the name of the messiah, wouldn't that be hebrew as well. when the messiah walked the earth his name was yahshua. now the question is where the name jesus comes from? can't say its an english translation of yahshua cause joshua is the english translation of yahshua.
@tflowdatru "so if your early church fathers in there writtens admitt that the scriptures and the letters that was gathered were originally hebrews"
No one gosple was written in hebrew, all other 26 books where written in Greek, not to mention Matthew translated his letter into Greek, so all 27 have an original greek.
I know exactly where the name Jesus comes from, it comes from the Latin "Iēsous" which is a transliteration of the Greek "Ἰησοῦς" from the Septuagint.
@gtepp031387 evidents show that the gospels that were translated into greek show some words that were only used in the hebrew language that the greeks wouldn't have say or used...so if those translation or translation were in there that mean they had to stem from an original source that uses those types of idiom in their language.
@tflowdatru 1)Sry but I think I will stick to the Septuagint, the holy book of Christ and his apostles thank you.
2) The evidence suggests that Jesus spoke both Hebrew and Greek, and the apostles knew some Hebrew yes, and that there where many cultural words still around during the time of Christ....but all 27 books of the NT have an original Greek.
@gtepp031387 ies is the greek goddess of healing and iesous is the muscline from of ies...and if you translate name or even words into it another language it can not lose its meaning or the word or name is void. so the proper translation should be "iah soteria" which would translation in greek as yah is salvation which is what yahshua means in hebrew.
@tflowdatru The apostles used the Septuagint, probley from the example of Jesus, which uses the name "Ἰησοῦς" for the messiah. I will never accept the Hebrew text that came out of Jamnia, as it was disorted to try to reject Jesus as the Christ, a council that rejected all Greek becaues the NT was written in this languide, as a result this made them try to remove 7 books from the allready cannonized text of the Septuagint, many Jews to this day even reject this council.
@gtepp031387 did you not do your research on the dead sea scroll...all of the writtens that were found were predominantly hebrew. including the writtens of the acproypha. you can reject the jamnia but you can't not reject the original text of the old testament that show you that the messiahs name was the same as joshua in the old testament. and the so called jews are not the true jews of the bible they are gentiles thats in the land until the real jews return by yahshua.
@tflowdatru The dead sea scrolls have been pretty much proven to be the collection of a specific Jewish/Christian sect(know as the Ebonites), that halfway accepted Jamina and halfway accepted Christ..They rejected Paul and believed that one must hold to all the Jewish rites and laws....I do not consider there text to be infallible, nor correct.
@tflowdatru 3) the names is not in the letters, but in the meaning....Jesus or Yahshua or Ἰησοῦς or Lesous means - My GOD who saves/helps/is my salvation...that is the meaning of the name of the Christ, and his true name is in the meaning not in the letters.
@tflowdatru Ἰησοῦς literal translation means the annointed one....GOD has many names each has a meaning, the name of GOD is in the meaning....The meriful, the powerful, the savior, the all knowing....ect....letters are of human invention.
@gtepp031387 thats were you are wrong if you recall moses recieved the name of the most high on horeb. exodus 3:13-15..."i am that which i am that" and he said, thus you shall say to the children of yisra'el, I am has sent me to you. 15...this is my name forever, and this is my remembrance to all generations. tell me is forever temporary or is it just what it say...forever....in the hebrew tongue he said "hayah asher hayah"...Yah has sent me to you.
@tflowdatru The LORD has taken many names, every name has a meaning behind it, this is where the name of the LORD is.....
"the only name you can find him saying to call him is YAH."...
WRONG..."The Lord his name is Jealous" Exodus 34:14....you would say this is a title, but the holy word says it is his name...there are other verses as well, but this one proves you clearly wrong.
@gtepp031387 PSALMS 68:4 sing to elohim, sing praises to his name. raise up a highway for him who rides through the deserts, by his name Yah and exult before him....MALACHI 3:6 for i am Yah, i shall not change, and you, O sons of Ya'aqob, shall not come to an end. ISAIAH 50:15 but i am yah your elohim, stirring up the sea, and its waves roar. yah of host is his name. ISAIAH 12:2...for the lord Jehovah is my strength and my song he also is become my salvation.
@gtepp031387 anointed one is just a title. alot of people were anointed in the bible. the most high anointed cyrus. ISAIAH 45:1 thus said Yah to his anointed, koresh...David 1st Samuel 16:13 and shemu'el took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. and the spirited of Yah came upon Dawid form that day and onwards....all those that you saying the meriful is characteristic and describtion of the most high...the only name you can find him saying to call him is YAH.
@gtepp031387 now go to your greek translation in psalms 68:4 and see what the original manuscripts read Ἰαω...scholarly proven. it also saids its from the hebrew word Yah or tetragrammaton...its also a proven fact that the word lord was what the christians done to replace the name of the most high. now yeah the letters are of human invention...greeks...hebrews went by the father himselfs. ACTS 2:21 and it shall be that everyone that calls on the name of YAH shall be saved...
@tflowdatru If you are so sure of the name of GOD, and you think it is in these speacial secret letters then pray for anything and you will recieve it, as the LORD says "If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do."...but if it is in the meaning that the name exists then you can see whay you can not pray for the death of someone of something that is outside the meaning of the name of GOD.
@gtepp031387 when you read Acts 2:21 please get you a good king james version and look in the back of the book at the difinitions for the word lord and see what it say about it. maybe a king james nelson version or scofford, darby or something like that...also look at the word yahweh as well....well you at it look up the word god and look at the etymology of it to see where it derived from...its a proto-germanic...germanic paganism word.
@tflowdatru "please get you a good king james version"
There is no such thing, the KJV is horribly translated and has much missing content, it is not a bible, but a forged book that came from the ignorance of men in 1611.
@tflowdatru On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).
@gtepp031387 again refer back to the bible where its referencing sunday as the day of worship and coming together as Yah the father of abraham, isaac and jacob commanded
@tflowdatru I have given my case on the matter on the LORDS day, there is no longer anything to say, your ears are shut and your eyes are closed.
Barnabas was a diciple of the apostles, he jouried with Paul for a while in acts. They seperated over a dispute between Mark the interpriter of Peter.
Not in any Greek texts?...well I do not know where you have stiudied but the greek manuscriptues of old included Barnabas, Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, 3 Cor, Hermas, the Pro of james..ect
It's called history. The Didache was written by the apostles by the way, what you call a gentile work...lol...Ignatius was the understudy of John the apostle, and ordained bishop by Peter in Antioch, I will take his word over yours, or your personal interpritation of the bible(which was put together using the tradition of the holy fathers like Ignatius,denie the fathers and you denie the bible) anyday.
are ignatius letter apart of the bible....what was the messiah and the apostles reading during the time they walked the earth. why wasn't ignatius and the rest not canonize until the so called new testament....the only books that are scriptures are the tankh which is the old testament because its inspired books. the most high spoke in these books....where is your proof that ignatius is ordained by peter.
@tflowdatru The letters of Ignatius are one of the main reasons you have the cannon you do today....If you wish to know why some books where not put into the cannon, I suggest you look into the council of Hippo, there where requirments and restrictions, for one Ignatius did not meet the requirment of being either a apostle or one of the 70 diciples who accompanied Jesus. However without the use of certain books by Ignatius and the other apostolic fathers we would not even who...
@tflowdatru ..cont..wrote the books and wether they are authentic...I mean if not for the fathers use of the books, we would be unable to seperate the gnostic and forged books from the true cannon....Next you asked how I know Ignatius was ordained by Peter, well for that I have to go on the writtings and confirmations of the time, all who speak of this topic who write around the time of Ignatius note this, it is even noted that he was the child Jesus placed in front of his apostles.
@tflowdatru "why didn't peter himself speak of him or write to him in any of his epistles."
1) We do nopt know he didn't as we do not have all of Peters writtings.
2) the only reason you believe the epistles of Peter are from peter is becaues of the tradition of the church, the same tradition that says Ignatius was ordained by him.
3) Peter also ordained Clement, who is mentioned in the bible who's writting you reject, and probely hundreds of other people he doesn't mention.
@gtepp031387 he may have written to those people. but did the most high YAH ordain them. no! and where is the writtings to prove he wrote to these people. and according to the first council of nicaea they stated not to keep the hebraic but to continue in the custom of the romans and others. jeremiah 10:2...thus said YAH, " do not learn the way of the gentiles, and do not be awed by the signs of the heavens, for the gentiles are awed by them.
@gtepp031387 question were the hebrews the ones that where to follow and was chosen or was it the nations that we are to follow according to what the scriptures state
@tflowdatru Christ was sent first to the Jews, then to the gentiles, even paul who was sent specifically to the gentiles preached to the Jews first, it is becaues they where given the first right yes, but once baptized into Christ there is no such thing as a Jew or a Greedk, and those jews that rejected this baptism are not now the choosen people no.
@gtepp031387 when did you see yahshua going to the gentiles. he only went to the house of yisrael. salvation and deliverance was of the hebrews...the most high is a covenant diety he keeps his promise. and the so called jews thats in the land no isn't the jews of the bible. they are gentiles. luke 21:24...and they shall fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations. and jerusalem shall be trampled underfoot by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are filled.
@gtepp031387 revelation 2:9 i know your words, and pressure, and poverty- yet you are rich- and the blasphemy of those who say they are jews and are not, but are a congregation of satan.....i don't see so called jews of today as a whole in poverty...they own banks and other things. plus they are still in the land when they suppose to be led captive in all nations...don't see that either....they suppose to not even unitify until the return of the messiah...but look jews are unitified someone lie
@tflowdatru I said the LORDs day is sunday which is a historical fact. We have already discussed about this topic and I corrected your hetrodox believes, may the LORD forgive you your fauls on this issue.
@gtepp031387 wasn't it ptolemy that had the hebrew scriptures translated into greek.all the prophets in the bible lines up but for some reason none of your early church fathers line up with the prophets. 2nd peter 3:15....pauls also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you....pauls writes on his own account not as a prophet. 2nd peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are
@tflowdatru Ptolemy wanted and asked them to be translated he himself did not do the translating though. The high priest sent 70/72 of the top teachers of the Law that where fluint in each lanuidge to the king who made the translation. They where locked 2 by two in seperate rooms, and upon comming out the 35/36 translations matched word for word. This version is the one the apostles quoted from nearly 300 times and the comon book of the Jews between 200 B.C-70 A.D.
@tflowdatru It was not untill 70 A.D. that the Jews that had rejected Jesus came together and formed a new version of the scriptures, it is also important to note that the Septuagint was the first offical compliation of scripture from the Jews, before which they all had seperate scrolls, and had no offical reconition besides the first 5 books of what became the bible.
@gtepp031387 continue....unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 peter 2:20-21 knowing this first,that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man;but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy spirit. those man that were holy with the holy spirit were prophets. not just regular man with philosophies. the holy spoke for them.
@tflowdatru No scripture should be peronally interprited, which is what you continue to do on almost every post. While I continue to give you the interpritation of the united church, and what was believed througout all ages by the pious men of the spirit.
@gtepp031387 no i give you scriptures which the most high spoke through and you can't support your claim with scriptures. the day of the lord is refering to a day of judgement and wrath. 1st thessalonians 5:2,2nd peters 3:9-13, (1st corinthians 5:5, 2nd corinthians 1:14 speaks of the coming of the messiah a second times revelation 7 revelations 9 and revelation 19) revelation 1:10, amos 8:4-14, obadiah 1:10-15, joel 3:1-6,joel 2:11, joel 1:15, hosea 9:7, hosea 7:13, jeremiah 46:10
@gtepp031387 i haven't been interpret any of the scripture but been contextualizing it and going by what has been written. but you on the other hand putting your own or someones interpretation of the bible which is agains the word of the most high
@tflowdatru "i haven't been interpret any of the scripture but been contextualizing it"
Nope what you are doing is looking at scripture with a 21st century presupistional interpritation, and skipping over 2,000 years of historical context....you have no context besides your personal interpritation of other passages to go on, that is circular theology.
@gtepp031387 i'm sorry but you don't not understand the scripture from a cultural prespective. you keep call the news testament scriptures when it plainly states epistles of sha'ul, or the other apostles.what did the apostles call scriptures during their times. what was they reading during the times they walk the earth. the new testaments wasn't happen right when they were on earth. it was wrote years later after the messiahs death....plus theology is greek. speak hebrew please
@tflowdatru Speak hebrew?...sry but I do not speak Hebrew, I have nothing against the languide. When It comes down to scripture I trust more in the Septuagint, it being Greek has nothing to do with it. The apostles all wrote in Greek, with the exception of Matthew who originally wrote in hebrew but then translated his writtings to greek. As far as scripture goes, it is true that the Nt was not cannonized untill the council of Hippo in 393 I give you that point.
@gtepp031387 when you translate scriptures from one language to another you miss interpret words and meanings.some words in hebrew don't exist in greek and vise verseor. so if the new testament wasn't canonized until the council of hippo in 393 that makes it none scriptures. no where in the new testament where it saids thus said yah or thus said the lord.
@gtepp031387 amos 3:7 for the master Yah does no matter unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets....i don't see in any of these peoples letter where it starts off with thus saids the lord. Yah didn't speak to a prophet and change anything. no where in the new testament did Yahshua speak regarding the sabbath being change...proverbs 30:6 do not add to his words, or lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.
@gtepp031387 dueteronomy 4:2 do not add to the word which i command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of Yah your elohim which i am commanding you. Revelation 22:18-19 for i waitness to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, elohim shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of his prophecy, elohim shall take away his part form the book of life,....
@tflowdatru ..cont... there wher in fact over 60 gosples debated about in the council of Hippo 393 A.D., which gave us the cannon of scripture know as the bible. The bible came from the church. I tell you the truth I could not accept even the gosples if the authority of the Catholic church did not move me to do so, or else I might as well accept all the gnostic books and anything that claimed apostolic origen.
@gtepp031387 now what group of people did these things. was a priest of the tribe of levi present and was a prophet from among the hebrew israelites present. did an angel move any of the men to do these things on behalf of the highest.did the most high choose the catholic church to lead in serving him in complete truth.did the most change who he chose as a nation of people to be a priest among the nations. or all these act from people that took it up on themselves to do so.
@tflowdatru Did the most high choose the catholic church?...why yes he did, he personally came down from heaven and choose 12 men, whom appointed sucessores to lead the church, the Catholic church is one of two churches that trace there roots back to the apostles the other being the Orthodox church, which still calims to be catholic making it a mood point. The Jews where the choosen people of GOD, the ones that heard the call became Christian, and continued to be.
@gtepp031387 so where at in the prophets where it states that he choose the catholic church. please you just stated that the jews were the choosen people of god...so which one is it the jews or the catholics that was choosen? and show me in the scriptures where the most high decided not to use the jews anymore.
@tflowdatru The Jews that rejected Jesus, are not Jewish, The true Jews the choosen people became Christan..or are you caliming that they did not die and where reborn in Christ?...there is niether Jew nor greek in Christ Jesus my dear pal.
@gtepp031387 hebrews 8:6-8...for finding fault with them, he says, "see the days are coming,"says yah, when i shall conclude with the house of yisrael, and with the house of yahdah a renewed convenant." the choosen people always were hebrews israelite.
@tflowdatru There is niether Greek nor Jews in Christ Jesus, your closed mindness is silly and way unorthodox, Peter concluded since the holy spirit is at work in the gentiles who was he to not baptise them.
@gtepp031387 listen to what you just wrote...to baptise them...they are engrafted into the faith...they are co-heirs. they are not to take over the faith...they still have to go thru yisrael to learn how to serve yah the awesome diety and only true elohim. acts 10:1-8 cornelius was sent to peter to learn what he was to do...acts 14:1 the gentiles came into the congregation of jews not the congregation of gentiles. they still had to go thru yisrael to learn how to serve yah.
@tflowdatru 1) The apostles are the new priesthood, who they ordained is who we are to go through, not some Jews out of left field. Once baptized a person becomes part of the body of Christ, which is far greater then being a Jew, you are actually made one with and in GOD.
@gtepp031387 no israel as a whole is the priest hood...you adding to the word...why did they have to go to israelites first and yah didn't go to the nations first...its a process that the most high work...yahshua didn't step one foot in a gentile nation...he remained in hebrew country...to the lost sheep of israel....acts 2:21 and it shall be that everyone that calls on the name of Yah shall be saved....the most high revealed his name to israel and israel alone...
@gtepp031387 paul spoke to men of yisrael acts 2:22 men of yisrael, hear these words yahshua of natsareth, a man of elohim, having been pointed out to you by mighty works, adn wonders, and signs which elohim did through him in your midst, as yourselves also know...acts 2:36 therefore let all the house of yisrael know for certain that elohim has made this yahshua, whom you impaled both master and messiah...it said all the house of yisrael.
@tflowdatru 2) What original Hebrew are you comparing to?...The Christians rejected the translation of Jamnia, as well as many of the Jews, there is no original Hebrew text and has not been for thousands and thousands of years. Jesus and the apostles used the Septuagint showing the light on it's divine influence, the Jews also gave it appoval and used it as there holy book for over 200 years.
@gtepp031387 Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.), Bishop of Lyons, France -50-, wrote toward the end of the second century, "Now Matthew published among the Hebrews a written gospel also in their own tongue.
@gtepp031387 Origen, Jerome, and other church fathers through the third and fourth centuries all agree on a Hebrew original for one or more of the Gospels. These early Church traditions seem to add further confirmation to what the Hebraisms of the Gospels have already hinted to us: early Gospel writers composed their narratives and stories in the native language of their readers, Hebrew.
@tflowdatru "even your early church fathers admitt that the gospels were written in its original language hebrew."
Lol..this convo is over. (Matthew is the only one that wrote in Hebrew, and you can get earlier evidence for this than Ireneaus St Papias states this as early as late first century)May GOD forgive you your faults and open your eyes to the truth as only he can. I pray this in the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit amen
@tflowdatru 3) Whoever states that the Jews between 300 B.C. and 70 A.D. did not speak greek is striaght out lying. Look at the apostles who all wrote in Greek, it is historical fact that koine Greek was the common tounge during those times.
@gtepp031387 if greek was the only language spoken in those days by the hebrews why when they found the dead scrolls and other books all of them were written in hebrew and one was written in aramaic. they were dating back in 200 bce to 100 ad. please in acts 21: 37- 40 show they spoke hebrew. acts 22:1...luke 23:38 and there was also an inscription written over him in letters of greek, roman, and hebrew...john 19:20...written in hebrew, greek, in roman...
@gtepp031387 The New Testament provides some of the best evidence that Hebrew was a spoken language in Judea in the first century A.D. For hundreds of years scholars have realized that a Semitic original underlies the Greek texts of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) and a large portion of the Book of Acts. It has been assumed for an equal number of years that this Semitic original was Aramaic. if scholars admitt to the language being hebrew why you can't use commonsense
@tflowdatru 4) The united church came togther in council, before there was yet any significant breaks in Christiandom and united put togther and cannonized the cannon of the church, Jesus stated that this church was to be the authority, I think I'll take his word thank you.
@gtepp031387 what verse in the epistles did yahshua state that? i know yahshua would have used the word assembly not church. you must don't know greek as well as you think cause the hebrew word for assembly is qahal and the greek equivalent is ekklesia...plus the messiah wouldn't have a greek name as well...jesus is greek his name is yahshua. in greek there is no j's along with hebrew. so the name you saying is iesous. the greek goddess of healing
@gtepp031387 gentiles where grafted into the faith. romans 11:11-24...pauls tell you he was of the tribe of binyamin romans 11:1, romans 2:17-20 ...see you are called yahdahite, and rest on the law, and make your boast in elohim...an instructor of foolish ones, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 1st peters 2:9 for you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises..
@gtepp031387 1st peter2:9 continue...of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light....yisrael was the only nation of people that the most high set apart as his choosen people. the messiah tells you who he was sent to...matthew 15:24 and he answering, said, " i was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of yisrael....john 4:22 you worship what you do not know. we worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the yahudahim
@gtepp031387 galatians 3:6-8...and the scripture, having foreseen taht elohim would declare right the nations by belief, announced the good news to abraham beforehand, saying, all the nations shall be blessed in you,"....Galatians 3:16...but the promise were spoken to abraham, and to his seed. he does not say, and to seeds, as of many, but as of one, and to your seed, who is messiah(anointed). ephesians 3:6 the gentiles to be co-heirs, united in the same body, and partakers together
@gtepp031387 because according to history the romans wanted to make them a god to worship and thats why all these council was arrange. just like the council of nicea of 325 ad when they voted on rather the messiah was of the same substance of god or a lower substance but higher than man. that why trinity was instituted into the christian faith.
@tflowdatru The council of Nicea came together to discuss Arianism, not to make Jesus a GOD, Jesus was already considered to be GOD, the logos of the father. The word of GOD, took flesh and became man... Arias believed Jesus still divine but there was a time when the word was not....if that makes any sence, the church rejected Arias becaues it was an innivation of the true faith, and heretical.
@tflowdatru You perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead." ~ Barnabas ch 15 (60 A.D.)
@gtepp031387 where is you getting this from...these are not found in the scriptures. these all of letters from greeks. gentiles who the most high never dealt with. is this a letter from barnabas that journeyed with sha'ul or barnabas of alexandria
@gtepp031387 they are all called sabbaths cause they all are days that you rest. just like the seventh day. the apostles never change the sabbath day from saturday to sunday. and if they did they're not the most high he is the only one that give commandments and we follow man was created not the creator. plus the only one that changed the day is ignatius. and he was not one of the apostles. and if you look they were hebrews and they were taught the things that were in the old testament.
@gtepp031387 those are the tradition that they were talking about holding fast to.not the tradition of man. yahshua said you can't serve two master. you either going to love one and hate the other. man can't serve the most high and mammon...matthew 6:24, luke 16:13...the tradition you speaking of is from romans who had not the law and wasn't not choosen by the most high to lead the nation in learning how to serve him. jeremiah 10:1-2 learn not the ways of the nation(gentiles).
@tflowdatru Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
@gtepp031387 hebrews 4:4-6 for somewhere he has said thus about the seventh day," and god rested on the seventh day from all his works.and in this again," if they shall enter into my rest..." since then it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly recieved the good news did not enter in because of DISOBEDIENCE
@gtepp031387 hebrews 4:9 so there remains a sabbath-keeping for the people of god.... so if you not keeping the sabbath day which is the seventh day then you are being disobedience....the rest that the most high is speaking of is the resting from your labor of endurance in is word until the end where if you found righteous in the eyes of the most high then you enter into the kingdom which the 7th day. according the most high 1 day is a thousand years so when that day come it will rest
@gtepp031387 the law that the priesthood is under does not have anything to do with the day you should worship or the day the most high has sanctified and appointed to come together. the priesthood has everything to do with the servers of the temple and place of worship and doing scarifices. intercession of sins and mediation.hebrews 7:22-28, hebrews 8:1-6, hebrews 8:7-13, hebrews 9:1-28...not once do it mention changing the day of worship.
@tflowdatru Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
@gtepp031387 where in the scripture or the epistle does it say that the sabbath day was change. i can't see in no passage in the new or old testament where it was change...acts 13:42, acts 13:44,acts 15:20-21, acts 16:13, acts 17:1-2...all these are showing that the sabbath day didn't not change even when the messiah had died and ascended into heaven. so where is the commandment to do so by the most high to change the day.
Bishop Lewter or does anyone knows what's the software that Bishop Lewter is using in the background?
prayer4me2 3 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 acts 24:5 for we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the natsarene. so if paul was a nazarene when did he become a christian...so he was leader of two sects? he couldn't have been a christian because ignatuis was the first to use the term christian. acts 24:14...according to the way which they call a sect,....not christian.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "ignatuis was the first to use the term christian."
Not true at all acts was writtin in about 60 A.D. and St Luke used the word Christian in Acts 11:26...It is a rather stange that in Antioch the individual believers where first called Christian and in the same place the church was first called Catholic... See a conection?
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 no that is any insert. if ignatuis was the first to use the term christian. how could luke or any of the apostle use the term first. that would mean they would have came up with the term catholism. and that mean it would have been them to use the word first not ignatius. plus they would have use hebrew langauge to coin that term.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru "no that is any insert. if ignatuis was the first to use the term christian."
What are you talking about I gave the verse in the Acts of St Luke who uses the word, are you claiming that verse is forged?
Catholic means whole or universal it is from the Greek litterally meaning concerning the whole, it is a combination of the two words, Jesus uses the term whole and complete several times in the bible, as well as the apostles
gtepp031387 1 month ago
continue...so could that mean that the gentiles were, as they believed to be defining the teachings of the apostles regarding who christ is? because the divinity of christ had been endorsed by a some community of christians in pagan city of rome. remember the gentiles had no knowledge of Yah or of Yahshua. and ignatius was the first to use the term christian. matthew 2:23 and came and dwelt in a city called natsareth thus to fill what was spoken by the prophets, " he shall be called a natsarene
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 let me ask you a question...when did the holy days stop being practiced among those that believed in the messiah. according to the first council of nicaea they told them to stop practicing the jewish custom and follow the customs of the romans and the customs that they been following. plus the main accomplishment were settlement of christological issue of the relationship of jesus to god the father.and the debates came from among the gentile community.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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Ignatius is a latin anagram for "Gaius Within" (Gaiu-Intus) , because his real name was Gaius Pliny The Younger
thone2008 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 1 thessalonians 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of the day. we are not of the night nor of darkness.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
just like i said before he wasn't on one accord with the rest of the apostles. through out acts you can see that paul keep his cultural practices going into assemblies on the sabbath day and have the gentiles attending sabbats as well. he kept the holydays, dietary laws and all the customs of his people. ignatius was the start of christianity. which is a greek term coined by him. the apostles were hebrews who had a hebrew way of thinking. the terms they would use would be hebraic.
tflowdatru 6 months ago
ignatius was one that studied gnosticism and other mysticism. he was one of the ones the apostles was warning those that followed the faith to look out for. 1st timothy 4:1-5, 1st timothy 1:5-10
tflowdatru 8 months ago
@tflowdatru Are you kidding me! ignatus gave his life for the faith! And anyone that would dare speak against him s a servant of the devil...GOD bless St Ignatius...Ignatius was taugh and ordained face to face by the apotles. You are one of the teachers worned about in 1st timothy.
gtepp031387 7 months ago
@gtepp031387 according to what you saying i would be speaking against scriptures and truth. according to the scriptures laws and commandments is truth. you can read that in psalms 119:142, psalms 119:151 psalms 119:160, psalms 119:169. and according to acts 2:1 everyone was on one accord. your saint isn't on the same accord as the apostles.
tflowdatru 6 months ago
@tflowdatru "your saint isn't on the same accord as the apostles."
Intresting that the apostles sure thought he was as they choose and ordained him, teaching him, face to face, what they knew.Are you saying the apostles desicion was wrong?And name me one thing that Ignatius ever taught that was against scripture?The use of certain books and not others by Ignatius is the measure on which the church knew what the approved books of the scripture where, without him your bible would b very different
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 well i can name several things that goes against the scriptures that he taught. he was the first deities the messiah, the first to argue the favor of christianity replacement of the sabbath with the lords day, he was the first to use the term " katholikos" meaning "universal" "complete" and "whole" to describe the church. we didn't operate accord to the process that the most high had establish through a covenant with his chosen people. he was the first to use the word christian.
tflowdatru 6 months ago
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@tflowdatru He was the first deities the messiah?
Huh I dont understand this.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
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@tflowdatru "the first to argue the favor of christianity replacement of the sabbath with the lords day"
Actually the bible makes this pretty clear in several places, even in the OT we cazn see a case for the LORDs day. As well as Barnabas was the first outside of the bible to speak of the the LORDs day replacment.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 the lord day is a day of wrath....plus the word lord in the old testament is actually the name Yah...lord is just a tell the father established his name through out the old testament to his people he choose to be a priest and priestess to the other nations
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru "he was the first to use the term " katholikos" meaning "universal" "complete" and "whole" to describe the church."
Yes, and what is wrong with that Jesus wanted the church to be one.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 the word church is greek and it not refering to an assembly it refering to a god or goddess if you do your etomyology of that word the hebrew used is qahal and the greek term is ekklesia...not church. so where do that word come from
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru "he was the first to use the word christian."
Don't think so St Luke was the first to do this.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 no do your research and see that the credit goes to ignatius...luke speak hebrew christian is greek not hebrew translate christian in hebrew and see what you make of it.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387just like i said before he wasn't on one accord with the rest of the apostles. through out acts you can see that paul keep his cultural practices going into assemblies on the sabbath day and have the gentiles attending sabbats as well. he kept the holydays, dietary laws and all the customs of his people. ignatius was the start of christianity. which is a greek term coined by him. the apostles were hebrews who had a hebrew way of thinking. the terms they would use would be hebraic.
tflowdatru 6 months ago
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@tflowdatru Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 you have to read the rest of isaiah. they were being disobedience and bringing their offerings not in a sincere manner they were just using the scarificial laws in vain it wasn't doing anything to their consciences. so the most high told them he would remove them from the land and the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths....isaiah 66:22-24 show you that in the end times everyone shall worship before him on these events.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 show me in the new testament were yahshua saids worship me....
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Look at Acts 20:7.. It is interesting to note that St. Paul had spent a week with the community in Troas (Acts 20:6), and this is the only reported time that he celebrated the "breaking of bread" with them. Also no remarks are made later in this passage that St. Paul disapproved of their worship on Sunday. One would expect St. Paul to object to this practice, if it were rooted in paganism.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 act 20:6 tells you that they came together after day of unleaven bread....during days of unleaven bread they couldn't eat anything that had yeast in it...nor have anything that was leaven or yeast in their house. once it was over the custom is to come together afterwards and feast. and thats what they were doing they wasn't having any day of worship it was just a fellowship gathering.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; ... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead." ~ Justin Martyr around 150 A.D.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 this is coming from justin martyr who had no encourter with none of the apostles but with some old man who told him about christianity then he decided he would teach for himself. this mans background is of pagan origins and mutiple philosophers from those that had no ideal of the bible.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 on the days of unleaven bread you have two days that you come together that is the 1st day of unleaven bread and the seventh day you have i holy gathering.according to the scriptures once the sun goes down its the next day. so paul had gathered with them on the sabbath and his reasoning with them extended into midnight which would have been the next day ones saturday night had came. genesis 1:5...
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387in corinthians it just say that he told them to make a collection on the first day so when he comes there it won't be any collection going on. no where do it states to come to gather on the first day and worship or that the most high commandment to come together. so when paul was rushing back to jerusalem to keep the holy days as it was his customs why not enforce that into christianity. i don't see where paul was not keeping the holy days that was commandment by him by the most high
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 what about festival of weeks that paul kept, act 20:16, or unleaven bread acts 20:6, acts 12:3, acts 2:1. did yahshua( jesus) keep the sabbath day.before he died? did he teach order not to come together on the sabbath day?
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says "let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath."
2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 no it says sabbaths plural...what about new moons? and what about the festival...what festival are he talking about? he said don't let anyone judge you in these things. so when you proform or keep this ordiance you are in complainance with paul. the festivals he talking about are passover, unleaven bread, sukkoth, all the custom that the hebrews. the new moon was the sames as a festival or a sabbath day. holyday that were order by the most high to keep are all keep sabbaths days.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru sabbaths where but a shadow of things to come my dear seveth day adventist...keep your made up church to yourself my friend. You are heretical, all of the body of christ says anathema to you. I am not trying to be mean but you are very understudied and have fallen in a man made church, that was invented in the last 100 years. You do not obey Jesus becaues if you did you would obey who he left to be over the church.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Isaiah 1:13 - God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath.
Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.
1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 100)
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 ephesians 4:4-6 one body and one spirit, as you also were called in one expectation of your calling. one master, one belief, one immersion, one elohim(god) and father of all, who above all, and through all, and you all. 1st timothy 2:5 for there is one elohim, and one mediator, between elohim, and men, the man messiah Yahshua. matthew 23:9 and do not call anyone on earth your father, for one is your father, he who is in the heavens.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Jesus is the only mediatore, but the Sts are one with and in Jesus with him where he is(john 17:20-26) they are the very body of Christ. Do not call anyone on earth father, yes, but those who live in the spirit "do not belong to the earth" and it is fitting that we call the holy spirit in them father as Paul did himself..."I have become your father through the gosple" 1 Cor 4:15
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 you might want to look at that verse again 1 corinthians 4:15 for though ye have ten thousand instructors in christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in christ jesus i have begotten you through the gospel....he nevers says call me father.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru you might want to look at the verse bud...tell me what does begotten mean?...and do you have a problem with the translation of the original greek and Latin which renders the word to be father?...Not saying begotten is a wrong translation here the word means the same thing....just like doctor means teacher, say do you use the word doctor?...not tpo mention the apostles use the word father in many cases in the bible, John even says you are his children.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 yes in a discriptive way. they are children in learning the word of the father which is in heaven.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Jesus also used the word father in several places of the scripture. He even uses it in a good light stating that if Abrabam(which means father anyway) was your father you would be doing the works of Abraham...he also calls Satan father of lies.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 when he is talking about abraham and satan he is using father because abraham is their forefather. and satan is the father of lies referring to his works. but to call him father as a title or as equal to the father which is in heaven he is speaking against.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru No one believes that the church fathers are equal to the father in heaven, so your point is not valid. Father is a title that Jesus gives to several. In fact the full title if you wish to nitpick is CHURCH father...so again they are not father as in heavenly fathers but CHIRCH FATHER as Abraham was the father of all nations, as job was the father to the poor, as Paul is our father through the gosple, as we are the children of John.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 the pope states that he is the father here on earth and he was anointed by jesus himself to be the father....plus church etymology is coming from the greek goddes circes which posion men her wine and turned them into pigs...so why would the hebrews or the most high choose a word that represents another deity when he states in exodus 23:13 and in all that i have said to you take heed. and make no mention of the name of other mighty ones, let it not be heard from your mou
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru The Pope is the father of the church, or elder if you like the word better. He is the vicor of Christ, the successore of Peter and Paul, the holder of the keys of the kingdom, the prince among the bishops, the first, the primate, the protos. He is the chair in which unity is to be maintained by all.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 thats where you wrong he is not the holder of the keys of the kingdom. show me in the scriptures where it speaks of him being the one that holds the keys to the kingdom. the only one that holds those keys is in heaven. no man can possess that only the father. the pope is not a diety or a holy spirit. if he was you wouldn't be elected a pope every some many years. because the last one died. spirits don't die.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 he might be the prince of this world but not the next. and the prince of this world is satan or the devil.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru dude he is the chair of Peter and you should listen to all he has to say, he is the prince of the temperal church, not the world. "I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven"~ Jesus says to Peter...I guess you think when Jesus says YOU he is speaking to himself? The Pope is not a diety and we do not believe such, I don't know where your getting your info but it is way off.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 revelation 12:9 and the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the devil and satan, decieved the whole world....not some of the world but the whole world. LUKE 4:5-7...and the devil, taking him up on a high mountain, showed him all the reigns of the world in a moment of time. and the devil said to him, all this authority i shall give you and their esteem, for it has been delivered to me, and i give it to whomever i wish. if, then, you worship before me...
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 continues...all shall be yours....see this world is the devils and all the governments, politics, religion, and systems belong to him and rules it all....why would he offer yahshua all the kingdoms if it wasn't his...the whole world is decieved
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru what are you talking about?...you are way off topic. Jesus established a church on earth, though they are not of the world they are still located on the earth, the church of Jesus does not belong to the devil..."the church of the living GOD the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Timothy 3:15..."if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." Matthew 18:17
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru I also trust more in the Latin Vulgate(the first and original biblia) as a NT/OT scripture, then I do in any other version, I trust the same in the Septuagint for the OT, but of course it doesn't have the NT.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 see that is the problem you will never understand the scriptures and the new testament thinking with an western or greek mind frame.the hebrews way of thinking was totally different from the greeks that why when the scriptures was translated into the greek the hebrews mourned on that day.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Dude Hebrew was a dead languide when Jesus came, nearly all the Jews spoke Greek. The offical scripture at the time was the Septuagint(and had been for the last 2 hundred years), and was a lot more organized and accepted then the variety of scrolls that where around in Hebrew many poorly translated without offical sanction. The NT was written in Greek, so how would you understand it better in Hebrew?
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 let me ask you something...did the hebrews speak greek first or hebrew?
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 learn hebrew and compare the languages to see the differences. plus josephuis was an hebrew historian and he stated that most of the hebrews didn't learn greek it was difficult for even him to learn to speak in it and he was fluent. he stated that hebrews would rather feed their kids pork then to learn greek.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 5) Josephus is largley debated as wether or not he was Jewish, and he wrote around 100 A.D. 30 years after the Jews had rejected Christ at the council of Jamnia, also rejecting the greek lanugide mostly becaues it was an easy way to write off the NT having been written in Greek. Thus returing the Jews to the laungide of Hebrew.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 back to his naive tongue which alot of the hebrews that didn't convert to the hellenist practices continued in.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 so if your early church fathers in there writtens admitt that the scriptures and the letters that was gathered were originally hebrews. when it comes to the name of the messiah, wouldn't that be hebrew as well. when the messiah walked the earth his name was yahshua. now the question is where the name jesus comes from? can't say its an english translation of yahshua cause joshua is the english translation of yahshua.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "so if your early church fathers in there writtens admitt that the scriptures and the letters that was gathered were originally hebrews"
No one gosple was written in hebrew, all other 26 books where written in Greek, not to mention Matthew translated his letter into Greek, so all 27 have an original greek.
I know exactly where the name Jesus comes from, it comes from the Latin "Iēsous" which is a transliteration of the Greek "Ἰησοῦς" from the Septuagint.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 evidents show that the gospels that were translated into greek show some words that were only used in the hebrew language that the greeks wouldn't have say or used...so if those translation or translation were in there that mean they had to stem from an original source that uses those types of idiom in their language.
tflowdatru 4 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru 1)Sry but I think I will stick to the Septuagint, the holy book of Christ and his apostles thank you.
2) The evidence suggests that Jesus spoke both Hebrew and Greek, and the apostles knew some Hebrew yes, and that there where many cultural words still around during the time of Christ....but all 27 books of the NT have an original Greek.
gtepp031387 4 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 ies is the greek goddess of healing and iesous is the muscline from of ies...and if you translate name or even words into it another language it can not lose its meaning or the word or name is void. so the proper translation should be "iah soteria" which would translation in greek as yah is salvation which is what yahshua means in hebrew.
tflowdatru 4 weeks ago
@tflowdatru The apostles used the Septuagint, probley from the example of Jesus, which uses the name "Ἰησοῦς" for the messiah. I will never accept the Hebrew text that came out of Jamnia, as it was disorted to try to reject Jesus as the Christ, a council that rejected all Greek becaues the NT was written in this languide, as a result this made them try to remove 7 books from the allready cannonized text of the Septuagint, many Jews to this day even reject this council.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 did you not do your research on the dead sea scroll...all of the writtens that were found were predominantly hebrew. including the writtens of the acproypha. you can reject the jamnia but you can't not reject the original text of the old testament that show you that the messiahs name was the same as joshua in the old testament. and the so called jews are not the true jews of the bible they are gentiles thats in the land until the real jews return by yahshua.
tflowdatru 4 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru The dead sea scrolls have been pretty much proven to be the collection of a specific Jewish/Christian sect(know as the Ebonites), that halfway accepted Jamina and halfway accepted Christ..They rejected Paul and believed that one must hold to all the Jewish rites and laws....I do not consider there text to be infallible, nor correct.
gtepp031387 4 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru 3) the names is not in the letters, but in the meaning....Jesus or Yahshua or Ἰησοῦς or Lesous means - My GOD who saves/helps/is my salvation...that is the meaning of the name of the Christ, and his true name is in the meaning not in the letters.
gtepp031387 4 weeks ago
@tflowdatru Ἰησοῦς literal translation means the annointed one....GOD has many names each has a meaning, the name of GOD is in the meaning....The meriful, the powerful, the savior, the all knowing....ect....letters are of human invention.
gtepp031387 2 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 thats were you are wrong if you recall moses recieved the name of the most high on horeb. exodus 3:13-15..."i am that which i am that" and he said, thus you shall say to the children of yisra'el, I am has sent me to you. 15...this is my name forever, and this is my remembrance to all generations. tell me is forever temporary or is it just what it say...forever....in the hebrew tongue he said "hayah asher hayah"...Yah has sent me to you.
tflowdatru 2 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru The LORD has taken many names, every name has a meaning behind it, this is where the name of the LORD is.....
"the only name you can find him saying to call him is YAH."...
WRONG..."The Lord his name is Jealous" Exodus 34:14....you would say this is a title, but the holy word says it is his name...there are other verses as well, but this one proves you clearly wrong.
gtepp031387 2 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 PSALMS 68:4 sing to elohim, sing praises to his name. raise up a highway for him who rides through the deserts, by his name Yah and exult before him....MALACHI 3:6 for i am Yah, i shall not change, and you, O sons of Ya'aqob, shall not come to an end. ISAIAH 50:15 but i am yah your elohim, stirring up the sea, and its waves roar. yah of host is his name. ISAIAH 12:2...for the lord Jehovah is my strength and my song he also is become my salvation.
tflowdatru 2 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 anointed one is just a title. alot of people were anointed in the bible. the most high anointed cyrus. ISAIAH 45:1 thus said Yah to his anointed, koresh...David 1st Samuel 16:13 and shemu'el took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. and the spirited of Yah came upon Dawid form that day and onwards....all those that you saying the meriful is characteristic and describtion of the most high...the only name you can find him saying to call him is YAH.
tflowdatru 2 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 now go to your greek translation in psalms 68:4 and see what the original manuscripts read Ἰαω...scholarly proven. it also saids its from the hebrew word Yah or tetragrammaton...its also a proven fact that the word lord was what the christians done to replace the name of the most high. now yeah the letters are of human invention...greeks...hebrews went by the father himselfs. ACTS 2:21 and it shall be that everyone that calls on the name of YAH shall be saved...
tflowdatru 2 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru If you are so sure of the name of GOD, and you think it is in these speacial secret letters then pray for anything and you will recieve it, as the LORD says "If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do."...but if it is in the meaning that the name exists then you can see whay you can not pray for the death of someone of something that is outside the meaning of the name of GOD.
gtepp031387 2 weeks ago
@gtepp031387 when you read Acts 2:21 please get you a good king james version and look in the back of the book at the difinitions for the word lord and see what it say about it. maybe a king james nelson version or scofford, darby or something like that...also look at the word yahweh as well....well you at it look up the word god and look at the etymology of it to see where it derived from...its a proto-germanic...germanic paganism word.
tflowdatru 2 weeks ago
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@tflowdatru "please get you a good king james version"
There is no such thing, the KJV is horribly translated and has much missing content, it is not a bible, but a forged book that came from the ignorance of men in 1611.
gtepp031387 2 weeks ago
@tflowdatru On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 14 (A.D. 90).
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 again refer back to the bible where its referencing sunday as the day of worship and coming together as Yah the father of abraham, isaac and jacob commanded
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru I have given my case on the matter on the LORDS day, there is no longer anything to say, your ears are shut and your eyes are closed.
Barnabas was a diciple of the apostles, he jouried with Paul for a while in acts. They seperated over a dispute between Mark the interpriter of Peter.
Not in any Greek texts?...well I do not know where you have stiudied but the greek manuscriptues of old included Barnabas, Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, 3 Cor, Hermas, the Pro of james..ect
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 "where am i getting this from"
It's called history. The Didache was written by the apostles by the way, what you call a gentile work...lol...Ignatius was the understudy of John the apostle, and ordained bishop by Peter in Antioch, I will take his word over yours, or your personal interpritation of the bible(which was put together using the tradition of the holy fathers like Ignatius,denie the fathers and you denie the bible) anyday.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
are ignatius letter apart of the bible....what was the messiah and the apostles reading during the time they walked the earth. why wasn't ignatius and the rest not canonize until the so called new testament....the only books that are scriptures are the tankh which is the old testament because its inspired books. the most high spoke in these books....where is your proof that ignatius is ordained by peter.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru The letters of Ignatius are one of the main reasons you have the cannon you do today....If you wish to know why some books where not put into the cannon, I suggest you look into the council of Hippo, there where requirments and restrictions, for one Ignatius did not meet the requirment of being either a apostle or one of the 70 diciples who accompanied Jesus. However without the use of certain books by Ignatius and the other apostolic fathers we would not even who...
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru ..cont..wrote the books and wether they are authentic...I mean if not for the fathers use of the books, we would be unable to seperate the gnostic and forged books from the true cannon....Next you asked how I know Ignatius was ordained by Peter, well for that I have to go on the writtings and confirmations of the time, all who speak of this topic who write around the time of Ignatius note this, it is even noted that he was the child Jesus placed in front of his apostles.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 ok so was he an apostle or a disciple....and why didn't peter himself speak of him or write to him in any of his epistles.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "why didn't peter himself speak of him or write to him in any of his epistles."
1) We do nopt know he didn't as we do not have all of Peters writtings.
2) the only reason you believe the epistles of Peter are from peter is becaues of the tradition of the church, the same tradition that says Ignatius was ordained by him.
3) Peter also ordained Clement, who is mentioned in the bible who's writting you reject, and probely hundreds of other people he doesn't mention.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 he may have written to those people. but did the most high YAH ordain them. no! and where is the writtings to prove he wrote to these people. and according to the first council of nicaea they stated not to keep the hebraic but to continue in the custom of the romans and others. jeremiah 10:2...thus said YAH, " do not learn the way of the gentiles, and do not be awed by the signs of the heavens, for the gentiles are awed by them.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 question were the hebrews the ones that where to follow and was chosen or was it the nations that we are to follow according to what the scriptures state
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Christ was sent first to the Jews, then to the gentiles, even paul who was sent specifically to the gentiles preached to the Jews first, it is becaues they where given the first right yes, but once baptized into Christ there is no such thing as a Jew or a Greedk, and those jews that rejected this baptism are not now the choosen people no.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 when did you see yahshua going to the gentiles. he only went to the house of yisrael. salvation and deliverance was of the hebrews...the most high is a covenant diety he keeps his promise. and the so called jews thats in the land no isn't the jews of the bible. they are gentiles. luke 21:24...and they shall fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations. and jerusalem shall be trampled underfoot by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles are filled.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 revelation 2:9 i know your words, and pressure, and poverty- yet you are rich- and the blasphemy of those who say they are jews and are not, but are a congregation of satan.....i don't see so called jews of today as a whole in poverty...they own banks and other things. plus they are still in the land when they suppose to be led captive in all nations...don't see that either....they suppose to not even unitify until the return of the messiah...but look jews are unitified someone lie
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 and scriptures don't lie but man do.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 since the lords day is sundays...what about 2nd peters 3:9-13...when it talks about the lords day...is this talking about sunday.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 2 peter 3:9-13 states the day of the LORD, which can mean any number of things, based on the context it mean the 2nd comming.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 ok...you said that the day of the lord is sunday...according to the context it is the 2nd coming.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru I said the LORDs day is sunday which is a historical fact. We have already discussed about this topic and I corrected your hetrodox believes, may the LORD forgive you your fauls on this issue.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 wasn't it ptolemy that had the hebrew scriptures translated into greek.all the prophets in the bible lines up but for some reason none of your early church fathers line up with the prophets. 2nd peter 3:15....pauls also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you....pauls writes on his own account not as a prophet. 2nd peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Ptolemy wanted and asked them to be translated he himself did not do the translating though. The high priest sent 70/72 of the top teachers of the Law that where fluint in each lanuidge to the king who made the translation. They where locked 2 by two in seperate rooms, and upon comming out the 35/36 translations matched word for word. This version is the one the apostles quoted from nearly 300 times and the comon book of the Jews between 200 B.C-70 A.D.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru It was not untill 70 A.D. that the Jews that had rejected Jesus came together and formed a new version of the scriptures, it is also important to note that the Septuagint was the first offical compliation of scripture from the Jews, before which they all had seperate scrolls, and had no offical reconition besides the first 5 books of what became the bible.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 what version of the scriptures did they formed?
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "what version of the scriptures did they formed?"
They formed the bible, which was cannonized using tradition in 393 A.D at the council of Hippo.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 continue....unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 peter 2:20-21 knowing this first,that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man;but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy spirit. those man that were holy with the holy spirit were prophets. not just regular man with philosophies. the holy spoke for them.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru No scripture should be peronally interprited, which is what you continue to do on almost every post. While I continue to give you the interpritation of the united church, and what was believed througout all ages by the pious men of the spirit.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 no i give you scriptures which the most high spoke through and you can't support your claim with scriptures. the day of the lord is refering to a day of judgement and wrath. 1st thessalonians 5:2,2nd peters 3:9-13, (1st corinthians 5:5, 2nd corinthians 1:14 speaks of the coming of the messiah a second times revelation 7 revelations 9 and revelation 19) revelation 1:10, amos 8:4-14, obadiah 1:10-15, joel 3:1-6,joel 2:11, joel 1:15, hosea 9:7, hosea 7:13, jeremiah 46:10
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 all this were days of the lord...are all these sunday as well
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 i haven't been interpret any of the scripture but been contextualizing it and going by what has been written. but you on the other hand putting your own or someones interpretation of the bible which is agains the word of the most high
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru "i haven't been interpret any of the scripture but been contextualizing it"
Nope what you are doing is looking at scripture with a 21st century presupistional interpritation, and skipping over 2,000 years of historical context....you have no context besides your personal interpritation of other passages to go on, that is circular theology.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 i'm sorry but you don't not understand the scripture from a cultural prespective. you keep call the news testament scriptures when it plainly states epistles of sha'ul, or the other apostles.what did the apostles call scriptures during their times. what was they reading during the times they walk the earth. the new testaments wasn't happen right when they were on earth. it was wrote years later after the messiahs death....plus theology is greek. speak hebrew please
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Speak hebrew?...sry but I do not speak Hebrew, I have nothing against the languide. When It comes down to scripture I trust more in the Septuagint, it being Greek has nothing to do with it. The apostles all wrote in Greek, with the exception of Matthew who originally wrote in hebrew but then translated his writtings to greek. As far as scripture goes, it is true that the Nt was not cannonized untill the council of Hippo in 393 I give you that point.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 when you translate scriptures from one language to another you miss interpret words and meanings.some words in hebrew don't exist in greek and vise verseor. so if the new testament wasn't canonized until the council of hippo in 393 that makes it none scriptures. no where in the new testament where it saids thus said yah or thus said the lord.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 amos 3:7 for the master Yah does no matter unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets....i don't see in any of these peoples letter where it starts off with thus saids the lord. Yah didn't speak to a prophet and change anything. no where in the new testament did Yahshua speak regarding the sabbath being change...proverbs 30:6 do not add to his words, or lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 dueteronomy 4:2 do not add to the word which i command you, and do not take away from it, so as to guard the commands of Yah your elohim which i am commanding you. Revelation 22:18-19 for i waitness to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, elohim shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of his prophecy, elohim shall take away his part form the book of life,....
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru ..cont... there wher in fact over 60 gosples debated about in the council of Hippo 393 A.D., which gave us the cannon of scripture know as the bible. The bible came from the church. I tell you the truth I could not accept even the gosples if the authority of the Catholic church did not move me to do so, or else I might as well accept all the gnostic books and anything that claimed apostolic origen.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 now what group of people did these things. was a priest of the tribe of levi present and was a prophet from among the hebrew israelites present. did an angel move any of the men to do these things on behalf of the highest.did the most high choose the catholic church to lead in serving him in complete truth.did the most change who he chose as a nation of people to be a priest among the nations. or all these act from people that took it up on themselves to do so.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru Did the most high choose the catholic church?...why yes he did, he personally came down from heaven and choose 12 men, whom appointed sucessores to lead the church, the Catholic church is one of two churches that trace there roots back to the apostles the other being the Orthodox church, which still calims to be catholic making it a mood point. The Jews where the choosen people of GOD, the ones that heard the call became Christian, and continued to be.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 so where at in the prophets where it states that he choose the catholic church. please you just stated that the jews were the choosen people of god...so which one is it the jews or the catholics that was choosen? and show me in the scriptures where the most high decided not to use the jews anymore.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru The Jews that rejected Jesus, are not Jewish, The true Jews the choosen people became Christan..or are you caliming that they did not die and where reborn in Christ?...there is niether Jew nor greek in Christ Jesus my dear pal.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 hebrews 8:6-8...for finding fault with them, he says, "see the days are coming,"says yah, when i shall conclude with the house of yisrael, and with the house of yahdah a renewed convenant." the choosen people always were hebrews israelite.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru There is niether Greek nor Jews in Christ Jesus, your closed mindness is silly and way unorthodox, Peter concluded since the holy spirit is at work in the gentiles who was he to not baptise them.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 listen to what you just wrote...to baptise them...they are engrafted into the faith...they are co-heirs. they are not to take over the faith...they still have to go thru yisrael to learn how to serve yah the awesome diety and only true elohim. acts 10:1-8 cornelius was sent to peter to learn what he was to do...acts 14:1 the gentiles came into the congregation of jews not the congregation of gentiles. they still had to go thru yisrael to learn how to serve yah.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 1) The apostles are the new priesthood, who they ordained is who we are to go through, not some Jews out of left field. Once baptized a person becomes part of the body of Christ, which is far greater then being a Jew, you are actually made one with and in GOD.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 no israel as a whole is the priest hood...you adding to the word...why did they have to go to israelites first and yah didn't go to the nations first...its a process that the most high work...yahshua didn't step one foot in a gentile nation...he remained in hebrew country...to the lost sheep of israel....acts 2:21 and it shall be that everyone that calls on the name of Yah shall be saved....the most high revealed his name to israel and israel alone...
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 paul spoke to men of yisrael acts 2:22 men of yisrael, hear these words yahshua of natsareth, a man of elohim, having been pointed out to you by mighty works, adn wonders, and signs which elohim did through him in your midst, as yourselves also know...acts 2:36 therefore let all the house of yisrael know for certain that elohim has made this yahshua, whom you impaled both master and messiah...it said all the house of yisrael.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 2) What original Hebrew are you comparing to?...The Christians rejected the translation of Jamnia, as well as many of the Jews, there is no original Hebrew text and has not been for thousands and thousands of years. Jesus and the apostles used the Septuagint showing the light on it's divine influence, the Jews also gave it appoval and used it as there holy book for over 200 years.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.), Bishop of Lyons, France -50-, wrote toward the end of the second century, "Now Matthew published among the Hebrews a written gospel also in their own tongue.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 Origen, Jerome, and other church fathers through the third and fourth centuries all agree on a Hebrew original for one or more of the Gospels. These early Church traditions seem to add further confirmation to what the Hebraisms of the Gospels have already hinted to us: early Gospel writers composed their narratives and stories in the native language of their readers, Hebrew.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 even your early church fathers admitt that the gospels were written in its original language hebrew.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru "even your early church fathers admitt that the gospels were written in its original language hebrew."
Lol..this convo is over. (Matthew is the only one that wrote in Hebrew, and you can get earlier evidence for this than Ireneaus St Papias states this as early as late first century)May GOD forgive you your faults and open your eyes to the truth as only he can. I pray this in the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit amen
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 3) Whoever states that the Jews between 300 B.C. and 70 A.D. did not speak greek is striaght out lying. Look at the apostles who all wrote in Greek, it is historical fact that koine Greek was the common tounge during those times.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 if greek was the only language spoken in those days by the hebrews why when they found the dead scrolls and other books all of them were written in hebrew and one was written in aramaic. they were dating back in 200 bce to 100 ad. please in acts 21: 37- 40 show they spoke hebrew. acts 22:1...luke 23:38 and there was also an inscription written over him in letters of greek, roman, and hebrew...john 19:20...written in hebrew, greek, in roman...
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 The New Testament provides some of the best evidence that Hebrew was a spoken language in Judea in the first century A.D. For hundreds of years scholars have realized that a Semitic original underlies the Greek texts of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) and a large portion of the Book of Acts. It has been assumed for an equal number of years that this Semitic original was Aramaic. if scholars admitt to the language being hebrew why you can't use commonsense
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru 4) The united church came togther in council, before there was yet any significant breaks in Christiandom and united put togther and cannonized the cannon of the church, Jesus stated that this church was to be the authority, I think I'll take his word thank you.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 what verse in the epistles did yahshua state that? i know yahshua would have used the word assembly not church. you must don't know greek as well as you think cause the hebrew word for assembly is qahal and the greek equivalent is ekklesia...plus the messiah wouldn't have a greek name as well...jesus is greek his name is yahshua. in greek there is no j's along with hebrew. so the name you saying is iesous. the greek goddess of healing
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 gentiles where grafted into the faith. romans 11:11-24...pauls tell you he was of the tribe of binyamin romans 11:1, romans 2:17-20 ...see you are called yahdahite, and rest on the law, and make your boast in elohim...an instructor of foolish ones, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 1st peters 2:9 for you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises..
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 1st peter2:9 continue...of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light....yisrael was the only nation of people that the most high set apart as his choosen people. the messiah tells you who he was sent to...matthew 15:24 and he answering, said, " i was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of yisrael....john 4:22 you worship what you do not know. we worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the yahudahim
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 in that statement he is saying that the greeks are co heir of the promise once they follow the ways of the hebrews
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 galatians 3:6-8...and the scripture, having foreseen taht elohim would declare right the nations by belief, announced the good news to abraham beforehand, saying, all the nations shall be blessed in you,"....Galatians 3:16...but the promise were spoken to abraham, and to his seed. he does not say, and to seeds, as of many, but as of one, and to your seed, who is messiah(anointed). ephesians 3:6 the gentiles to be co-heirs, united in the same body, and partakers together
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 because according to history the romans wanted to make them a god to worship and thats why all these council was arrange. just like the council of nicea of 325 ad when they voted on rather the messiah was of the same substance of god or a lower substance but higher than man. that why trinity was instituted into the christian faith.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@tflowdatru The council of Nicea came together to discuss Arianism, not to make Jesus a GOD, Jesus was already considered to be GOD, the logos of the father. The word of GOD, took flesh and became man... Arias believed Jesus still divine but there was a time when the word was not....if that makes any sence, the church rejected Arias becaues it was an innivation of the true faith, and heretical.
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@tflowdatru You perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead." ~ Barnabas ch 15 (60 A.D.)
gtepp031387 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 where is you getting this from...these are not found in the scriptures. these all of letters from greeks. gentiles who the most high never dealt with. is this a letter from barnabas that journeyed with sha'ul or barnabas of alexandria
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 they are all called sabbaths cause they all are days that you rest. just like the seventh day. the apostles never change the sabbath day from saturday to sunday. and if they did they're not the most high he is the only one that give commandments and we follow man was created not the creator. plus the only one that changed the day is ignatius. and he was not one of the apostles. and if you look they were hebrews and they were taught the things that were in the old testament.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 those are the tradition that they were talking about holding fast to.not the tradition of man. yahshua said you can't serve two master. you either going to love one and hate the other. man can't serve the most high and mammon...matthew 6:24, luke 16:13...the tradition you speaking of is from romans who had not the law and wasn't not choosen by the most high to lead the nation in learning how to serve him. jeremiah 10:1-2 learn not the ways of the nation(gentiles).
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.
Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 hebrews 4:4-6 for somewhere he has said thus about the seventh day," and god rested on the seventh day from all his works.and in this again," if they shall enter into my rest..." since then it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly recieved the good news did not enter in because of DISOBEDIENCE
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 hebrews 4:9 so there remains a sabbath-keeping for the people of god.... so if you not keeping the sabbath day which is the seventh day then you are being disobedience....the rest that the most high is speaking of is the resting from your labor of endurance in is word until the end where if you found righteous in the eyes of the most high then you enter into the kingdom which the 7th day. according the most high 1 day is a thousand years so when that day come it will rest
tflowdatru 1 month ago
@gtepp031387 the law that the priesthood is under does not have anything to do with the day you should worship or the day the most high has sanctified and appointed to come together. the priesthood has everything to do with the servers of the temple and place of worship and doing scarifices. intercession of sins and mediation.hebrews 7:22-28, hebrews 8:1-6, hebrews 8:7-13, hebrews 9:1-28...not once do it mention changing the day of worship.
tflowdatru 1 month ago
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@tflowdatru Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.
gtepp031387 6 months ago
@gtepp031387 where in the scripture or the epistle does it say that the sabbath day was change. i can't see in no passage in the new or old testament where it was change...acts 13:42, acts 13:44,acts 15:20-21, acts 16:13, acts 17:1-2...all these are showing that the sabbath day didn't not change even when the messiah had died and ascended into heaven. so where is the commandment to do so by the most high to change the day.
tflowdatru 1 month ago