I admit the wrongs of capitalism on many fronts, but if there's a dichotomy between working and starving. What, ideally, would happen as an alternative to work as standards rise? The state would support the person who decided not to work, or? In this scenario what are the safeguards to people being lazy (like MANY) are today and simply choosing government benefits with no repercussions? Morality obvious fails to restrain people in this world...has there ever really been a "just" society?
I was laid off from a bank 2 and a half years ago and since then I've been unemployed and / or underemployed. I've realized how bad the u.s. working class has it now, where bosses know how many people are underemployed and they're hiring more part time staff so they won't have to pay health insurance and other benefits. this has become so prevalent it's practically the norm. part of the prob is r capitalist govt only protects the interests of capital and keeps workers in their place
I'm self-employed. It's hard to feel sorry for lazy grasshoppers whining about having to get a job when I am making my own job. Learn a trade. Do something useful. Go live off the land. That's the only way you deserve anything.
in the vast majority of cases a low wage is theft of labour. wage slavery is theft of labour, point this out next time some right wing wanker tells you that tax is theft.
@AnarchoSyndicalistt Why don't you take a look a suicide rates in socialist countries versus capitalist ones, do some research before you spew that nonsense around.
I'm not a scholar, but I came across a quote tonight from Percy Bysshe Shelley that made me think of this--"Obedience/bane of all genius,virtue, freedom, truth/ makes slaves of men." Wage slavery makes you obedient--it subtly & slowly conditions & coerces you into conventions,trends,conduct that is excessively deferential, polite, phony..detached you from your authentic self-preoccupies you with the superficial-makes you worry about trivialities keeps you confined to mediocrity- & a lot more!
"Wage slave" denotes those who are socially subordinated by wage-work. Highly skilled workers who are paid via wages are still technically dependent, but their status is not one of stark subordination. Their skill and the difficulty of replacing it makes them (socially) the equal of a boss who needs it. The question is, does the subordination precede the wage and determine its low rate, as with a black cottonpicker.
The talk was given by Chomsky on Feb. 16 1970 at the Poetry Center in New York, not in 1971. Also, why is that section of the article titled "Opinions"? This goes far beyond the realm of opinion, and should not be relegated to such. Was this imposed on you by Wikipedia or the interventions of others? It should at least be titled Claims. If opinions are being written about, in any other form than opinion polls or how they've evolved over time, there is not much point in Wikipedia. Thankyou.
Glad you mentioned Fromm; he makes some good points. An in-depth study of the psychological effects of wage slavery is certainly something I think we all can benefit from, among other reasons, to more clearly understand the mechanisms behind its perpetuation.
I really appreciate this video because not so long ago I was suffering from the effects of wage slavery to the point where I had become almost unrecognizable to myself. Another aspect of this subject, and one I was dealing with, is the toxic environment many are forced to work in with all the neurosis, anxieties and mental illnesses swirling out of control. This daily, grinding psychological degradation eventually causes a physical toll.
You can say in being a wage slave that they control your mind & body.You have to have the proper gait,posture,expression,tone of voice,dilation of pupils.You must stoop constantly, adopt a physicality that's unhealthy, rigid,mechanical, & can't even take a deep breath for doing so interrupts rhythm of the socially necessary labor time or is heard as a sigh-the wrong meaning is attributed to the expression.Over periods of time this detracts/thwarts people in many areas of health mental & physical
For all you capitalist and that includes anarcho-capitalist, who does not understand what the term wage slavery means. Maybe a quick peek on the documentary "the money fix" can illustrate the sinister process that the capitalist monetary policy creates.
Wage slavery would seme to be a logical outgrowth of what the anarcho-primitivists call "civilization." The act of domesticating the land and other beings necessitates a change in the human role. That member of the group who wanted to follow his/her impulses to continue nomadic would have to be put down, made into a psychosis, interned/imprisoned, deemed anti-social, criminalized, etc. etc. Wage slavery proves the thesis two systems come into contact affect each other, humans and Nature.
I think about this a lot, but I can never come up with a good answer. What are Doctors? I mean, I mostly consider them wage slaves because they're often employed. But there's something about them that just seems to make them different than, say, nurses. Any ideas?
@00maharum00ma Mike Albert and Robin Hanhel in parecon define those people as the "coordinator class." About 20% of the population. Nurses are working class still though.
hmm. interesting. So, if we were going to establish socialism at a hospital, say, what would we do with doctors? I guess they'd just have to be on equal footing with nurses and other workers in the hospital. But it's sort of an awkward concept, the coordinator class.
I swear that the wikipedia article of Wage Slavery included that wage slavery causes people to be miserable and as a result start taking drugs. Its was simple point, and somewhat obvious but i cant find where i read that?? Or maybe it got deleted??
IT leaves one to question how systems of hierarchy and domination have come into place in human social structures, some may its human nature, others might argue it stems from "malevolent" entities be they reptilians or demons/devils, what have you, others might argue something else, i wonder what your opinion is mr 1001nights, if you could please elaborate on this query, thank you
"whatever does not spring from a man's free choice, or is only the result of instruction and guidance, does not enter into his very nature; he does not perform it with truly human energies, but merely with mechanical exactness"— and so when the laborer works under external control, "we may admire what he does, but we despise what he is"
@WOGI5M It is basically describing workers' alienation under wage labor. The worker is used like a machine and thus lacks any stimulation from or connection with his labor. It is related to Adam Smith's description of the worker who becomes as stupid and detestable as it is possible to become through division of labor.
The argument that of Chomsky's that you put forward at 11:07 or so echoes Foucault's ideas on surveillance and the individual in society. Interesting.
@Luigi84289 It's quite clear it wasn't, slavery wasn't abolished until 10 years after the war ended. It was fought over currency more than anything else, the south was printing their own money instead of borrowing it at interest from the Bank of England like the USA treasury was doing. In my opinion it's time for another civil war, let the right have Jesusland.
@trippinlikegod Slavery has never been abolished. There are pros and cons to both systems all that happened was that Chattle Slavery was replaced with Wage Slavery and that has grown to encompass nearly every American starting with the newly freed slaves who had to live off of other people's land and could not own land of there own so the fruits of their labor weren't entirely theirs. They were subject to all the conditions the land owner wished to make on them hence they were still slaves.
@trippinlikegod The only real way to ever abolish slavery completely was through gradual emancipation like the North and the giving of land to the newly freed slaves. There were some wage slaves before 1865 as there will always be in big cities but it became the law of the land pretty much in only a few generations afterwards starting with the newly freed slaves and encompasses nearly everyone now. It has become a part of the American culture. Most people don't even want to own land these days.
@AnarchoSyndicalistt
I am a wage slave and its very depressing, you are right.
Crashbanksbuysilver 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
hehe try to keeping you job for ten years while working for Korean Boss!
Might be notified at the last minute to stay back for hours on end with no definite knowledge of when your shift ends.
Physical Assault because you weren't psychic enough to magically know what they expect 100% of the time.
Doing extra things that goes beyond your job description that the Boss expects WITHOUT PAY!
Never knowing if you're getting paid on time or AT ALL!
EasternMerchant 2 months ago
I admit the wrongs of capitalism on many fronts, but if there's a dichotomy between working and starving. What, ideally, would happen as an alternative to work as standards rise? The state would support the person who decided not to work, or? In this scenario what are the safeguards to people being lazy (like MANY) are today and simply choosing government benefits with no repercussions? Morality obvious fails to restrain people in this world...has there ever really been a "just" society?
TheHumanFiction 7 months ago
I was laid off from a bank 2 and a half years ago and since then I've been unemployed and / or underemployed. I've realized how bad the u.s. working class has it now, where bosses know how many people are underemployed and they're hiring more part time staff so they won't have to pay health insurance and other benefits. this has become so prevalent it's practically the norm. part of the prob is r capitalist govt only protects the interests of capital and keeps workers in their place
BoricuaChiTown 11 months ago
I'm self-employed. It's hard to feel sorry for lazy grasshoppers whining about having to get a job when I am making my own job. Learn a trade. Do something useful. Go live off the land. That's the only way you deserve anything.
StatismIsACrutch 11 months ago
@StatismIsACrutch
For somebody who loves his/her own freedom you sure like to tell others what to do with their lives.
catbuffalo 9 months ago
wage slavery is symptomatic of statism, the fascist corporate/state merger
alistairproductions 11 months ago
in the vast majority of cases a low wage is theft of labour. wage slavery is theft of labour, point this out next time some right wing wanker tells you that tax is theft.
fringeailments 1 year ago
@AnarchoSyndicalistt Why don't you take a look a suicide rates in socialist countries versus capitalist ones, do some research before you spew that nonsense around.
TheProgressistViewer 1 year ago
I'm not a scholar, but I came across a quote tonight from Percy Bysshe Shelley that made me think of this--"Obedience/bane of all genius,virtue, freedom, truth/ makes slaves of men." Wage slavery makes you obedient--it subtly & slowly conditions & coerces you into conventions,trends,conduct that is excessively deferential, polite, phony..detached you from your authentic self-preoccupies you with the superficial-makes you worry about trivialities keeps you confined to mediocrity- & a lot more!
catgumart 1 year ago
Stockholm Syndrome. That's what I see en mass.
crud4 1 year ago
"Wage slave" denotes those who are socially subordinated by wage-work. Highly skilled workers who are paid via wages are still technically dependent, but their status is not one of stark subordination. Their skill and the difficulty of replacing it makes them (socially) the equal of a boss who needs it. The question is, does the subordination precede the wage and determine its low rate, as with a black cottonpicker.
TheAzov 1 year ago
The talk was given by Chomsky on Feb. 16 1970 at the Poetry Center in New York, not in 1971. Also, why is that section of the article titled "Opinions"? This goes far beyond the realm of opinion, and should not be relegated to such. Was this imposed on you by Wikipedia or the interventions of others? It should at least be titled Claims. If opinions are being written about, in any other form than opinion polls or how they've evolved over time, there is not much point in Wikipedia. Thankyou.
VaSavoir2007 1 year ago
Glad you mentioned Fromm; he makes some good points. An in-depth study of the psychological effects of wage slavery is certainly something I think we all can benefit from, among other reasons, to more clearly understand the mechanisms behind its perpetuation.
Moncayowind 1 year ago
working for the machine sucks,I cant do it anymore it causes too much psychological trauma to me.I am making due,but thats about it.
zoticus1 1 year ago
I really appreciate this video because not so long ago I was suffering from the effects of wage slavery to the point where I had become almost unrecognizable to myself. Another aspect of this subject, and one I was dealing with, is the toxic environment many are forced to work in with all the neurosis, anxieties and mental illnesses swirling out of control. This daily, grinding psychological degradation eventually causes a physical toll.
unit023 1 year ago
You can say in being a wage slave that they control your mind & body.You have to have the proper gait,posture,expression,tone of voice,dilation of pupils.You must stoop constantly, adopt a physicality that's unhealthy, rigid,mechanical, & can't even take a deep breath for doing so interrupts rhythm of the socially necessary labor time or is heard as a sigh-the wrong meaning is attributed to the expression.Over periods of time this detracts/thwarts people in many areas of health mental & physical
catgumart 1 year ago
For all you capitalist and that includes anarcho-capitalist, who does not understand what the term wage slavery means. Maybe a quick peek on the documentary "the money fix" can illustrate the sinister process that the capitalist monetary policy creates.
lordmetroid 1 year ago
You should debate Stefan Molyneux.
machaeroguy 1 year ago
Wage slavery would seme to be a logical outgrowth of what the anarcho-primitivists call "civilization." The act of domesticating the land and other beings necessitates a change in the human role. That member of the group who wanted to follow his/her impulses to continue nomadic would have to be put down, made into a psychosis, interned/imprisoned, deemed anti-social, criminalized, etc. etc. Wage slavery proves the thesis two systems come into contact affect each other, humans and Nature.
EastofModernity 1 year ago
I think about this a lot, but I can never come up with a good answer. What are Doctors? I mean, I mostly consider them wage slaves because they're often employed. But there's something about them that just seems to make them different than, say, nurses. Any ideas?
00maharum00ma 1 year ago
@00maharum00ma Mike Albert and Robin Hanhel in parecon define those people as the "coordinator class." About 20% of the population. Nurses are working class still though.
Chomskyan 1 year ago
@Chomskyan
hmm. interesting. So, if we were going to establish socialism at a hospital, say, what would we do with doctors? I guess they'd just have to be on equal footing with nurses and other workers in the hospital. But it's sort of an awkward concept, the coordinator class.
00maharum00ma 1 year ago
glad to see you returning in the political sphere
razvaNazdravan 1 year ago 11
I swear that the wikipedia article of Wage Slavery included that wage slavery causes people to be miserable and as a result start taking drugs. Its was simple point, and somewhat obvious but i cant find where i read that?? Or maybe it got deleted??
TheMagnaOpera 1 year ago
btw nice hair, looks good bro, you should grow out the beard as well though lol, just a thought
Alarik5 1 year ago
IT leaves one to question how systems of hierarchy and domination have come into place in human social structures, some may its human nature, others might argue it stems from "malevolent" entities be they reptilians or demons/devils, what have you, others might argue something else, i wonder what your opinion is mr 1001nights, if you could please elaborate on this query, thank you
Alarik5 1 year ago
You've done amazingly well with the wage slavery article on Wikipedia.
SPQRomantic 1 year ago
Can some explain:
"whatever does not spring from a man's free choice, or is only the result of instruction and guidance, does not enter into his very nature; he does not perform it with truly human energies, but merely with mechanical exactness"— and so when the laborer works under external control, "we may admire what he does, but we despise what he is"
Thanks
WOGI5M 1 year ago
@WOGI5M It is basically describing workers' alienation under wage labor. The worker is used like a machine and thus lacks any stimulation from or connection with his labor. It is related to Adam Smith's description of the worker who becomes as stupid and detestable as it is possible to become through division of labor.
AnarchoHumanist 1 year ago
The argument that of Chomsky's that you put forward at 11:07 or so echoes Foucault's ideas on surveillance and the individual in society. Interesting.
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
check my yt channel and homepage on ciborowski. host247. pl / en / there are some videos and paragraphs to use on the topic you talk about
Thorsupremecommander 1 year ago
Nothing like a "neutral" reference like a dictionary to lend weight to your thesis. lol
FantasmaBAnco 1 year ago
Nice Fro.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
I think you should add marxist contributions to the idea for us leninists. :3
cary123 1 year ago
@cary123 I agree. Once you start really learning about this you realize the Civil War was not fought to end slavery.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
@Luigi84289 It's quite clear it wasn't, slavery wasn't abolished until 10 years after the war ended. It was fought over currency more than anything else, the south was printing their own money instead of borrowing it at interest from the Bank of England like the USA treasury was doing. In my opinion it's time for another civil war, let the right have Jesusland.
trippinlikegod 1 year ago
@trippinlikegod Slavery has never been abolished. There are pros and cons to both systems all that happened was that Chattle Slavery was replaced with Wage Slavery and that has grown to encompass nearly every American starting with the newly freed slaves who had to live off of other people's land and could not own land of there own so the fruits of their labor weren't entirely theirs. They were subject to all the conditions the land owner wished to make on them hence they were still slaves.
Luigi84289 1 year ago
@trippinlikegod The only real way to ever abolish slavery completely was through gradual emancipation like the North and the giving of land to the newly freed slaves. There were some wage slaves before 1865 as there will always be in big cities but it became the law of the land pretty much in only a few generations afterwards starting with the newly freed slaves and encompasses nearly everyone now. It has become a part of the American culture. Most people don't even want to own land these days.
Luigi84289 1 year ago