How Can a Good God Allow Evil? Does Life Have Meaning? - Dr. Ravi Zacharias

[GOOdGuyGreg1]

i dont like how ravi claims that there can be no moral code without a moral law giver. that is wrong. you do not need religion to distinguish right and wrong. how can i define right and wrong? by a) empathy and b) the common interest to do to others what you would have them do to you. no one religion can claim all morality. societies existed before christianity and judaism. where then did they get their moral codes to coexist without the true path to god?

[LaHomEnt]

if this question is difficult, why God hasn't answered it himself? Doesn't He bother? Does He like speculations?

[TheJohnmark481]

@LaHomEnt I believe that we can ask life's question in heaven when we will be with God. :))

[fletchdrebon]

@LaHomEnt That's a good question. I think it boils down to faith that He is just (or a lack of belief that He is just). I think this question is the question that the world struggles with in regards to Christianity..."Why does God allow evil?".  Ravi's answer is amazing and IMO undeniably logical.

[kriss299]

Too stupid for science? Try religion.

[thnguyen24]

@kriss299 actually, i know some Christian science and engineering professors.

[edadan2009]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Is 45:7, KJV)

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6, KJV)

[Youngsamsonful]

The last time I asked God this question, the answer I received was this:

"Do you have faith in me?". I said "yes, why?". And then He said "Why then do you doubt that these people are heaping upon themselves their just punishments?".

I kept quiet and realized that God is watching and waiting for all this to end, to send evil-DO-ers to fiery Hell for eternity.

[truthbetold459]

NUM 1. "If I would to take a life something tragic has happened, because I can not restored that life. But if god allows that to happened, he can still restored that life. And the component of eternity does spell the possibility of an explanation without eternity the problem of evil remands totally unsolved. In fact, the question remands indefensible, so god is able to restored life eternity is able to bring ultimate justice, and we leave those two components in his hands. CONTINUES IN NUM 2.

[JoJirgens]

The way I'm an judging evil from good is by the god of the bibles moral law that he sets down, as god claims to be perfectly good by this moral law but allows what his moral law would determine as evil to exist in this world. As god created, controls and knows what is going to happen in this world he is in part responsible for this evil and so cannot be by his own moral law perfectly good, there is a contradiction here which is a big issue for Christians

[FrankieSayRelaxxx1]

This is an extremely flawed argument. He only asserts that there is an absolute universal moral law, and he only asserts that there is a moral law giver. He provides evidence for niether. Therefore, his whole argument is invalid.

[TheJacobMcAuley]

@FrankieSayRelaxxx1 As far as philosophical terms are concerned, invalid denotes that the conclusion does not follow from the premises. The conclusion follows from the premise, so it is a valid argument.

The issue is, his two assertions, as you say, are not proven. That would make that argument valid, yet false.

In all fairness, in his scenario (i.e. speaking to a person who posed the query), the premises should be agreed upon. Whether or not the premises are true is another question.

[tmlaporte]

Amen!



[Twiggle33333]

@Monstergoat66 makes logical sense if you accept the idea that some unexeplained thing is the anwser to everything. Either i'm hungry because god willed it... or because I havent eaten all day.

[ikawpipa]

Dawkins will surely avoid this guy like Craig.

[Haswellarc]

@ikawpipa Because they are not worth his time.

[revealer007]

@TheAlphaPyro - Weak rebuttal. But I'm sure you're right, because, after all everyone with an opinion is right, right?

[eddrebrab]

@revealer007 Strawman much?

[ILOVEHACKEYSACK]

@eddrebrab Nope because if alphapyro is correct than what revealer said was in keeping with not having to be absolutely meaningful. I mean, everything is relative right? Even this very statement. lol

[eddrebrab]

@ILOVEHACKEYSACK Except that nothing TheAlphaPyro said implies anything about relativism or a lack absolute meaning.

[Avalon400]

Oh I C: The existance of cancer and all the suffering asociated with it PROVES the existance of a "God" ! ! !

[jsb42]

No, but there is no implicit contradiction between an all loving God and a world with both Good and Evil.

[TheAlphaPyro]

u don't need absolute morality to desire to uphold morality. It is an instinct hardwired into our dna and even the dna of other species. I have reasons to be kind to others because I want to live in peace with others. Just because the bible says a supposed god has an absolute morality does not mean there is a god OR that his morality is absolute. He can change his morality jesus can take yer sinful place now & pork's ok 2 eat now. what does absolute morality even mean? jesus said slavery was ok

[ShoelaceTemptation]

@TheAlphaPyro Morality...is hardwired into our DNA? Well, if that's true then no one would ask "why there is evil in the world?" because there wouldn't be evil in the world if everyone had morality "hardwired into their DNA". And the subject of Jesus saying that slavery is okay, it was merely accepted in that time period. Also, don't forget, Jesus is the ultimate "slave". And he calls us to be servants to others just as He was to everyone He met.

[TheAlphaPyro]

@ShoelaceTemptation "because there wouldn't be evil in the world if everyone had morality "hardwired into their DNA"

Do we always do what is encoded in our dna? no of course not. Some people will starve themselves to try and be "beautiful." I wasn't making the case that dna is the only reason for morality as I said "I have reasons to be kind to others because I want to live in peace with others." U said: 'It was merely accepted" So as long as something is accepted in a time period it's ok?

[ShoelaceTemptation]

@TheAlphaPyro you're totally talking about a different thing on the subject of DNA. Morality can't be encoded into a humans. You're talking about someone starving themselves to change their weight. Weight is a physical attribute that can be encoded into a persons DNA, but morality isn't. For example, if your parents had told you to lie and cheat and do drugs and drink, you would. You didn't already know right from wrong when you were a child, therefore it can't have been encoded into your DNA

[TheAlphaPyro]

@ShoelaceTemptation Not all morality can be encoded in dna i agree. But part of our altruistic tendencies are likely to be encoded. Even mice show altruism. Put two mice in cages and shock one every time the other one eats (don't shock the other one) . The mouse not receiving the shock will starve to death as it observes that not eating stops its neighbor from being shocked. Females of most species are protective of their young even if they are abandoned by parent. who taught them this?

[ShoelaceTemptation]

@TheAlphaPyro And Piranha eat each other and leopards leave one of their young behind of it's sick or injured. I wouldn't be so quick to base my entire moral code on the behavior of animals.

[eddrebrab]

@ShoelaceTemptation Just dropping by again - can't help notice but that this is no argument at all. You said that morality can't be encoded into DNA, TheAlphaPyro gave strong reasons to think that it can. It's irrelevant that some animals appear not to be altruistic, so long as there are some who are. And who said anything about basing a moral code on the behaviour of animals? Red herring!

That's all. Toodle-pip.

[ShoelaceTemptation]

@eddrebrab I agree that altruistic tendencies can be encoded into the DNA of animals, but we only equate this to morality because of what WE as humans believe to be moral. In an alternate universe where good was bad and bad was good, we would look at those mice and say, "How disgusting! Why would they put that mouse before themselves! Selfishness is the right way!". There are good and bad behaviors encoded into all animals, but we decide what ones are moral based on our concept of morality.

[eddrebrab]

@ShoelaceTemptation Sorry, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. - That morality is subjective and free floating and hence not something that can be encoded into DNA in any meaningful way?

But morality might simply be derived from what is good for this or that animal, and in that sense morality would in part be encodable.

[wertguy]

fantastic yeah when atheist argue its always why how??? i dont beleive??? actually they are just finding answers that in the end it all points to god lol

[wertguy]

this man is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! very good!!!!!!

[119Elias119]

Is the tl;dr answer to the first question - Evil exists because free will exists, and it exists so it may be punished in the afterlife?

[iamdavincity]

Atheist are just truly seeking rather than purely believing in faith. An omnipotent omnipresent god catalyzed an oxymora cosmos? Why refer God as a man, i just don't understand, is he a bias? Actually I don't understand how he can be referred to as a man when John 24:4 says "god is spirit". First off "quantum physics" proves that there is no real life... The meaning to life is breaking from the Karmic cycle and become total oneness, not partial oneness as we are in human vessels.

[finalfantasiest1234]

The absolute moral law of the Bible:

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant...and he works after a day or two, the man shall not be punished: for the slave is his money.

I Corinthians 14:34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

According to Bible, woman and slaves are inferior. These are literal biblical ABSOLUTES from GOD. Yet we do not follow God's morals?

[MR1EAR]

@macmarine It is sad to be you

[macmarine]

@MR1EAR umm, actually, I've been quite happy without any god-interference for more than half a century now. And because there is no god, I don't even have to ponder pseudo-problems like theodicy …

[MR1EAR]

@macmarine Then why go on this kind of youtube format and why engage people...there are a lot of other sights I would go on UNLESS I did want to muse myself with the possibility of a God. OR why say "or he just doesn't give a shit!" unless you believe He existent.

[macmarine]

@MR1EAR just for sh!t'n giggles! It's quite entertaining to follow people struggling with the age-old question of theodicy. I used to struggle with it in my former life when working with end-of-life cancer patients for many years. I read what philosophy and theology have said about it, I talked to pastors and hard-core believers … no one ever came up with any satisfying answer. I watched little kids and good, caring people die from cancer while the scumbags out there thrived. No god there …

[MR1EAR]

@macmarine C.S.Lewis The problem With Pain & A Grief Observed

[MR1EAR]

YOU don't want there to be a GOD. And because of that You say there is not...I say because of that

THERE IS A GOD.

[ganekelioque]

@macmarine like ravi says in the video, your focused on the personhood, if those cancer patients were the product of primordial slime it shouldnt matter because they are just a piece of some cosmic machine going nowhere. without God what makes a person worthwhile that you care about them enough to mention them in this forum?

[macmarine]

@ganekelioque … "without God what makes a person worthwhile that you care about them enough…?" That's got to be the most dishonest and outright moronic question I ever saw on Youtube (and there's a lot of morons on Youtube)! I care for a person, especially an innocent child, because I got to know them and found lots of positive qualities in them, because the world was a better place with them being around, or simply put because I thoroughly enjoyed their company. No god required!

[ganekelioque]

@macmarine But how are they worth anything if they are just here by 'accident'? What actually makes a quality of a person 'positive'? You failed to grasp my question. And as most atheists cant get past person hood, and im sorry.

[macmarine]

@ganekelioque who (but you) ever said they are here by accident? I don't care WHY they are here! I DO care THAT they are here. You failed to grasp my statement. And because there is no god, personhood, empathy and social orientation is all we have and all we need. There is no suggar-daddy in the sky watching over all of us and judging us according to our compliance or non-compliance to ancient biblical writings that didn't even make sense way back then …

[ganekelioque]

@macmarine And who (but you) ever said that there is a sugar* daddy in the sky? Is this because you are bitter because you've lost someone close? Or a child? And if you dont care why we are here how can you care THAT we are here? Self defeating statements my friend, if you would like to continue this in a private conversation i would be glad to continue.

[macmarine]

@ganekelioque Yeah … I lost good people. And no, I'm not bitter! I just get mad when people like you try to shove their "mojo" into everything. I don't need a simplistic god-concept in my life to value other people or to value life. God adds nothing, helps nobody, solves none of our problems! Never has, never will … b/c he ain't there! But if you need a god b/c it gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling or you just want your nookie … fine, go right ahead. Just leave the rest of us alone …

[ganekelioque]

@macmarine I dont want you to think im forcing things on you, im just asking questions to try and make you think, dont be angry. ill be happy to leave you alone but dont think atheists and non believers are the only people in the world with open minds. And i dont believe in God because i want a warm feeling, i believe in God because i know he loves me and that i love him.

[macmarine]

@ganekelioque "i believe in God because i know he loves me and that i love him" … Hmm, you feel loved by someone/something that – that according to most rational people – doesn't even exist? Okay, suit yourself! But, and here I'm speaking from professional experience, will you still feel loved when your doctor tells you that you have pancreatic cancer and maybe 6 weeks to live? Or, worse yet, that your 6y old daughter has an inoperable glioblastoma and will die? Where's god's love in that?!

[ganekelioque]

@macmarine if you would watch this it would be much appreciated /watch?v=Tl58qufXfYk

[macmarine]

@ganekelioque … ok, I wish him all the best. We have a guy around here who was also born handicapped (thanks to thalidomide) and he went on to become a famous opera singer (bass baritone, he even did Carnegie Hall) and a professor at a german University. AFAIK, he never said a peep about god helping him, but he said many times that a loving family and good parenting made it possible for him. So, whatever works, I guess, is fine with me! BTW, here he is: watch?v=RESX8YroSCQ

[MR1EAR]

All of the evil that happens is a result of an absence of GOD. NOT because HE is not there, but because HE does not existence IN the mind and hearts of MAN

[Tobytrim]

Indeed Ravi, the question IS asked by allowing you to place the existence of "god" within the paradigm. Call it the socratic method!

It is either foolish or dishonest of you to take that as a concession from an atheist, of either an objective moral law, "good" or "evil" existing as nouns, or confirmations of your superstition based definition of "God"!

The question is : If an omnibenevolent God is in control, why would evil happen.

Moreover, why would one DO evil on his created sentient beings?

[CrypteX250]

@Monstergoat66 I learned something in life: it's not because something looks logical that it is logical. A mistake everyone makes..

[TaoTeChing00]

Love does not require will. Love is an instinct, wich can affect our choices. It isn't a choice.

[gatsbyfaulkner]

@TaoTeChing00 you got to have will in order to love... it isn't mere instinct

[TaoTeChing00]

@gatsbyfaulkner Then how come dogs love their masters? They don't have any will, just instinct...

[gatsbyfaulkner]

@TaoTeChing00 That's what separates man from dogs. Reason is what separates man from beast: within Will lies reason. A dog loves his master: how do you know? By the wag of its tail? Does it speak to you? A dog follows his master if the master takes care of it. But what if the master stops feeding the dog? A hungry dog bites because of its instinct. Humans are different. for instance, Love.

[gatsbyfaulkner]

@TaoTeChing00 (2) Consider arrange marriages. Two totally different strangers suddenly are put together. In India, arrange marriages are successful. There is a famous saying there: "we don't marry whom we love, we love whom we marry." Because Love is in itself Will, a husband CAN CHOOSE to love a wife whom he only knows for the first time. If you don't will to love, then you can't love at all.

[gatsbyfaulkner]

@TaoTeChing00 Love is stronger than the flutter of the heart. Why? Because of the Will to love.

[snuju1]

Dr Zac's snake-oil logic. Good for what ails ya. If what ails ya is a pea brain

[outbackcafe]

Agree with Ravi "love" is the act of a will. Yes we live in a moral universe that is easy to prove. . I don't understand why no one has ever explained where evil came from. Is it really so difficult to answer. Did evil not evolve? Man chose evil over good therefore he got it.

[Ryakki]

Circular and self-validating logic which is illogical nonsense. I don't understand the point of his mindless babble.

[snuju1]

What?!!! The problem of evil only makes sense if there is a God?!! No, the question is why is the world is at is, if God is exists as he is defined by theists! This is sophistry at the most abject ,feeble level!!!!

[924142707]

@snuju1 Ravi is right. For there to be such a thing as evil, there must be a moral law to define it. If there is a moral law,then there must be a moral law giver. Voila God. Keep Studying Ravi, he is a brilliant man. Atheism makes no sense.

[snuju1]

@924142707 Huh? There are events and actions that occur in the world, which cause anguish, suffering and misery. Because we don't like these events and their outcomes, we call them 'evil'. Absolute moral law is in no way requred as an explanation of that. I've seen a number of Dr Zac's videos. He's a clever-ish spinner of twaddle.

[flarezone]

Will exist!

Then those that have rebelled against God can't change their mind!

Repent now before you loose your chance to!

[flarezone]

God Is love!

He will not force us to love him because that is not love!

He gave us freewill so we could Choose to love him!

But most people choose not to love God.

Sin is evil and All people sin!

God will not stop evil Yet!

1)because it is not time for evil to be vanquished yet.

2)because God is giving us more time to change our minds and choose him! Once Jesus returns, there will be no more Evil or suffering! And only those that choose him will be left!

As long as there is FreeWill Evil w

[ThulinMartin]

@Monstergoat66 Dont you mean, that in fact, you want it to make sense? Peter van inwagen gave a much better answer to this guestion. But also admitts that free will, the way most of us think about free will is impossible with the existance of a God. So Ravi Zs answer doesnt really make sense... Even though you want it to.

[ouroboros2003]

1.Question doesn't imply absolute moral law.

2.If god created someone, and is all knowing, he knows if he would end up a sinner.

3. Not only about persons, how could god make such book that there are thousands different opinions what actually says in the Bible

[ChronosTachyon]

How does Guinea Worm Disease (look it up) enhance free will or promote God's ultimate ethic of love? Does this mean that we're subverting God's will by passing out nylon mesh filters to stop worm larvae, or were past people simply committing an ongoing evil by not having invented nylon cloth yet?

[bogart99]

You can't have morals without god who is the provider of morals Circle

You don't need god for for morals it ignores that morality can spring up independently.

Because their is a after life its ok for god to allow evil.

That answer cheapens life as does the rest of his answer.

This was a very cleverly worded argument from free will with a insult at the end aimed at non believers.

You can't ask questions unless you believe which is false.

[jaydot7]

waste of time

[halloweenicixi]

His analysis is premised on a lot of unproven assertions that only theists or christians are compelled to accept as fact due to their faith and their fields of experience.

[bogart99]

Buzzzzz Fail The atheist asking the question is asking If your god exists and is apposed to evil as stated in your doctrine why does god allow evil This is the problem with apologetics try and get them to answer a straight question and they shift the goal posts.

[DaneStolthed]

@bogart99 I thought Ravi made a lot of sense.

[bogart99]

@DaneStolthed Circular reasoning is not wisdom. Please try to listen again without your faith getting in the way.

[DaneStolthed]

@bogart99 Please explain the circular reasoning, I don't follow you?

[DaneStolthed]

@bogart99 I agree that circular reasoning is not wisdom. You think Ravi is using "circular reasoning"? I'm beginning to think that this is a desperate attempt to respond to the logic and reason that undermines your paradigm.

[bogart99]

@DaneStolthed You think the argument from free will is reasonable ? I do not.

[DaneStolthed]

@bogart99 I curious, may I ask why not?

[DaneStolthed]

@bogart99 Please explain the circular reasoning you think that Ravi is using.

[tomdenman]

@bogart99 Actually he answered the question in depth and what he said related to it, listen to it again my friend. Also the person asking was not an atheist.

[bogart99]

@tomdenman This was the argument from free will which states evil must exist because without it we can have no free will.

Problems

1. This puts god in a box along with us, god is not infinite. God can not design a system that allows free will and moral good to exist without evil.

2. While it is true that it does not disprove god it also does not prove god to be a morally good being.

the final section of this video was a Atheist Stop asking awkward questions insult which offensive.

see bellow

[MrCharrrles]

Ravi could pwn Hitchens

[samiul360]

@Monstergoat66 it sounds all nice, but the reality of the whole thing is we dont know for sure tahts why all the fights

[RagingCaveman]

@samiul360 It's way harder to not believe then it is to believe, and it matters what you believe, too.

[samiul360]

@Monstergoat66 we are still confused and will be, because of our limitation of true knowledge

[DaneStolthed]

@samiul360 Ravi makes sense and dispelled a lot of confusion.



[hexusziggurat]

★★★★★

[bugruto]

Without evil, there is no good.

Balance, is the key to the question.

[Roper122]

Only in your mind Ravi...

What an exercise in talking in circles.

[showkingpup]

Very difficult question and extraordinary answer ..

[DrMontague]

@showkingpup His answer is crass. Moses was god's messenger and prophet. God gave to Moses his laws. God demanded that gay and lesbians be stoned to death. Therefore god instructed mankind to do evil acts.God can allow evil because he is evil. Of course the logical answer is that there is no god and Moses was simply a homophobic shit.

[pecklepops]

If God has free will, but never chooses evil, then it could have created life in the same way: With free will, but also never choosing evil. If God has no free will but is still good then there was no point creating evil to grant humans free will as it is possible to be good with no free will. If God, angels and other beings in heaven have free will where there is no evil or suffering, then it cannot be true that god lets evil exist because it is a required side-effect of free will.

[NodeRanvier]

@pecklepops God never created evil, evil is just an abuse of our free will. God has given us free will so that we can choose to love him, if we were created unable to stray from God's will then our love for him would be meaningless. Think about it like this, if you created a robot to please your every whim, the act of that robot pleasing you in whatever way could not make you love the robot, or vice versa. There has to be the will to please behind the action for it to have significance.

[NodeRanvier]

@pecklepops You said why didn't God just make us like him; naturally good but unable to sin. If you take away our ability to sin than you take away our free will and our ability to love God.

[NodeRanvier]

@pecklepops The very act of creating beings who are perfect (like God) so that they can love him would be like creating the robot scenario that I described earlier. We are unique to God because we can choose to love him and do good.

[chica0616]

Nice argument Dr. makes perfect sense. praise God!!

[danacabeca]

@tetrahydroscope no one knows what God looks like, God Satan Lucifer whatever you call it im quite 200% sure is the same evil being

[polopowers1]

Evil is the representation of a powerless man kind. But man is not powerless in the face of evil he looks to get greater morality. But morality is also powerless.The Spirit fruit is the only value of Virtue God accepts, not good. Ravi, morality is not equal to God in virtue.God is superior to morals and law not one with it.

[shanekidd65]

I agree Vince. That without a supreme being we would be without a moral compass...I hear this all the time. That people believe "God" is limited to communicating with us via pages in a book written by men; and men telling us it's God working through them, is ridiculous and dangerous. Interestingly, I believe in a universal power, but I see it outside a book or the pontification of men. I see God everyday in the smile of a child, the fluttering of a leaf or the anatomy of an atom. That's my God.

[yehudaful1]

@shanekidd65 My god is barney, I believe he created everything. Is mine not as valid as yours...since both of ours are made up?

[paulfoom]

@yehudaful1 If your God barney would make such a impact in this world as ours? sure...

[yehudaful1]

@paulfoom I apologize, I don' t remember saying that or why I would ever say that...I very much ascribe to the Judeo-Christian God.

[paulfoom]

@shanekidd65 So true.... Romans 1:19-21 "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.".... The more I look at this world the more evidence I see.

[VinceStafford]

Nobody would believe bad is bad without consequences?!? ...what's it called when something just isn't right?..oh yeah..WRONG! Isn't it worse to take a life knowing that you have ENDED their life?....not just sent them to their hereafter? By Ravi's excuse for reasoning no one really kills anyone. They haven't died..but have everlasting life.....if they beLIEve in him. WOW! What an arrogantly condescending anti-reasoner!!!

[MrDeppness]

Absolutely brilliant!!!