America didn't enter the war until it was attacked, long after Britain was getting the svt bombed out of it.
All sovereign countries act in national interest. Britain has done it throughout its history, and never cared about anyone else but itself. Ireland was right to do the same.
It wasn't the Republic then, that's the whole point! The Freestate was still part of the Commonwealth, but was the only member to NOT fight the Nazis.
De Valera was a Total Hypocrite, who used Northern Ireland as a cheap excuse to stay out of WW2, because of his "claim" to it! But then amazingly FORGOT that claim to NI, when Hitler bombed the fuck out of Belfast, which he didn't even condemn!
Also, he NEVER condemned the Nazis for anything, even the Holocaust!
He sent about 80 firemen over the border for a few hours, 'till 300 from Clydeside and another 200 from Merseyside arrived, just to put that "aid" in perspective!
But he NEVER, condemned or protested the bombing, or ANYTHING the Nazis did, not even the Holocaust FFS.
Yet he did find time to visit the German Legation in Dublin, for tea & sympathy and official condolances when Hitler finally shot himself: What a man, eh?
@DonegalRaymie201 'It wasn't the Republic then, that's the whole point! The Freestate was still part of the Commonwealth, but was the only member to NOT fight the Nazis'
Actually the Free State ceased to exist following the adoption of the 1937 Constitution. Being a member of the Commonwealth obliged no one to join the conflict.
@jratt2 'He sent about 80 firemen over the border for a few hours, 'till 300 from Clydeside and another 200 from Merseyside arrived, just to put that "aid" in perspective!'
If you measure sincerity by resources available, why was it important for Eire to abandon neutrality in the first place?
Where was his CONDEMNATION of the Belfast Blitz then? You know the Territory that he claimed has rightly his, and his reason in this very speech for "Neutrality"? Or the Holocaust? Or the Nazis regime??
Well he probably did, when he went to express his official condolences to the Nazi Legation in Dublin on Hitler's suicide!
Not that World Class Hypocrisy bothered him or you eh? I mean, why would he want to condemn those who bombed the arse out of Territory, he claimed was properly his??
And you wonder why the North wants FA to do with you???
@DonegalRaymie201 He did, after Churchill mocked him and Ireland (video related). I would have done the same.
Let's not count the ways both sides are into hypocrisy up to their necks. The prods have more than enough blood on their hands.
Fact of the matter is(and the only thing that does matter), you're being replaced by non-protestants. That's all that matters. The game just requires a patient ROI and an .... active "Catholic" population in the north.
Bullshit eejit! Dev went to suck Nazi Dick, before the Nazis even surrendered, and LONG before Churchill reminded him of who saved Eire from the Nazi jackboots!
The PEOPLE of NI learned an important lesson in WW2! And they have NEVER forgotten who they could ACTUALLY count on, when the chips were down!
Guess what eejit?? It was NOT the People with whom they shared an island!!!
But the People with whom they STILL share a Nation moron!
Dream on eejit! No one in NI is in the least bit interested in a United Ireland! Support for that fell to a pityful 16% in 2010 FFS!
The ROI lost ANY Moral claim to NI during WW2, and if you had EVER lived in the North, you'd know how divisive that was! NOTHING divides, like when a People are at War, while a Neighbour refuses to even ACKNOWLEDGE that War, and instead dismisses it as an "Emergency"!
@DonegalRaymie201 If the Nazis had overrun Iceland I think Churchill would have had to overrun the Free State, as Lord Craigavon urged him to. Otherwise the Royal Navy wouldn't have been able to refuel during the Battle of the Atlantic.
Winston Churchill on hearing this speech admitted that this was "Devil Eire's" (as Churchill called him) .....Finest Hour- It certainly was De Valera's greatest moment
@floppykid not everyone would agree with that, he had some off the wall ideas, and was a devout Catholic. But at least he didnt spend his time on Youtube calling people cunts.
@RichardElden You're a real jackass if you think people killed whether American or any nationality is something to celebrate. Modern people don't blow up people...they sue which is something both Protestants and Catholics should do in Northern Ireland. You're a sad sack maniac if you think anyone killed by anyone is an event about which to rejoice.
Yeah definitely, but regardless of the time period colonisation was still wrong. I mean, the French colonised Vietnam in the 19th century too and caused a massive famine, but it was no less wrong than any of the previous English conquests. Even if society then accepted it, there was always those who saw what was happening was pure brutality. I'm sure if Ireland was in England's position they would've done the same.
"regardless of the time period colonisation was still wrong"?? Then was it wrong of the "Scotti" tribes from Ulster to cross the North Channel and found Dal Riata in Argyle in the 3rd & 4th Centuries, and to inhabit the whole of the West Coast of Caledonia in the years thereafter? And later to usurp the Kingdom of the Picts and rename the country "Scotland"?
The whole history of Europe is one of migration, invasion & colonisation. Ireland was just spared this 'till much later.
It is impossible to defend the expansionist policy of England because at it's core it was inherently wrong. Whether or not Ireland was a united state, the English had no right to invade and decide everything for the Irish. The world is much more liberal now, and if Scotland wanted independence, the international community would fully and wholly support them Similarly, if a referendum to unite the island of Ireland was successful, England would have no right to prevent it.
You're right about the World accepting Scots Independence, (looking likely) or a United Ireland, should NI vote for it,(not so likely), but the "expansionist policy of England", well, you have to put it in Historical context!
You said it yourself: "world is much more liberal now"; equally, you can't apply the Morality of the 21st Century to the 12th! It's utterly facile.
What the "English" did to Ireland in the 12th Century, the Normans did to them in the 11th remember???
England intentionally destabilized indigenous Irish populations & emigrated Protestants to that effect. The resulting strife is in Ireland is exactly as England knew or should have known would result from their policies, practices, occupation and manipulation of Protestant & Catholic populations in Ireland. Destabalization of Ireland was England's intent & England should be held legally liable for its remarkable & sad success. Y'all should have lunch with lawyers & jointly sue.
Is there any beginning to your knowledge? Non-English MP's do NOT vote on England only legislation by convention, but the whole "West Lothian" question will be solved by Scots Independence anyway! Ha ha!
You won't find any mention of "Braveheart" in the SNP manifesto, it's Hollywood Dick, but the basics were accurate. Wallace DID defeat Edward I at Stirling Bridge, and Bruce routed the English at Bannockburn!
Shetland has been Scots for most of a Millenium & half UK Army is Scots
Dick ya eejit, England has ALWAYS had it's Parliament; it's called Westminster, & it's been England's Parliament LONG, LONG before there was ever a UK!!
Why/how are the SNP "racist"?
And the Shetland Isles, have been part of the ancient Kingdom of Scotland since 1136AD, you feckin' moron! See that's what you don't get, NI is but an infant, but England & Scotland are ANCIENT Nations, both long predating this temporary idea of a "UK"!
Christ Dick, you're like a Broken Record, just repeating the same oul' shite!
The Scots have just given Salmond an ABSOLUTE MAJORITY in Edinburgh! The Nat's are in total control of the Parliament and are packin' their suitcases for the journey down Independence Road!
And you forget, the Scots have the oil & new finds of it west of Shetland too! It's "Auld Lang Syne" to the Union Dick!
No Dick, they were REBELLIONS! Salmond is a canny, clever, even "sleekit" politician, who will choose his moment to call the Referendum that delivers him his Independence Mandate, with a Plebiscite from the people!
Do you know the song, "Freedom Cam All Ye"? Have a listen; Luke Kelly's rendition is particularly fine!!
Tough shit, it's on Scottish soil! And Cameron has already conceded that Independence is entirely in Scots hands after the SNP election victory. Also, Salmond has promised the Referendum before the end of this Parliament. So get used to the idea of a new, Half-Britain & NI, LOL!
Self-determination isn't treason Dick, just because you want it to be!
Read your history Dick! The Scots had to be bribed into the Union in the 1st place, and if they want to leave it again they will, and they won't ask your permission!
"we have drones and tomahawk missiles." LMAO!! And the Scots have Trident on Holy Loch, off the Clyde, if you're thinking of going down that route eejit!
Careful what you wish for Dick.
Oh, and say goodbye to your beloved Union Jack! It will look different when you remove the Blue Saltire from the background eh???
Yeah, that right, the Slave Owning Scots want to secede from the Union to keep their all their Tobacco & Cotton Plantations running with slave labour, that must be it!
Have you got an extra chromosome or something Dick, because just when I think I've encountered "Youtube's Most Retarded", you surpass yourself & rise straight to the top of the thick list!!!
@RichardElden So they will start a civil war against nationalists because of a Scottish secession?! Are you posting from a secure mental hospital? Why would nationalists even want to fight over an issue that has nothing to do with them. What next? Loyalists declaring war on the nationalist population because of the political situation in Burma? You are crazier than a sack of rabid squirrels my friend. Ask the nurse for your tablets like a good boy.
@RichardElden 1 + 1 does not equal 3 you utter fool. What in the name of sweet baby Jebus does a Scottish secession have to do with Ireland? Scotland may choose it's own path. They may even make that choice without consulting a greenhorn voyeur like yourself. The horror!!!
Maybe try brain trainer to get your feeble IQ over the 50 mark and come back when you have a point that makes sense.
@RichardElden As I said you know the sum total of jack all about history. "Actively supported"!!!! You are making a total nimrod of yourself. But keep going brains, I'm enjoying "debating" with the brains of Britain. When your balls drop you might cop onto yourself. Till then...toodles. :)
@RichardElden We have the freedom to be whatever we want to be and we don't give a toss what you window licking Brits think. The "glorious" days of rule of the British empire are over. Welcome to being a nondescript irrelevancy off the coast of Europe pal. We have been only bankrupt slaves of the EU for the past 3 years. The previous 80 odd years were not a bed of roses either but it is better to stand alone than be a whimpering lackey of the British empire. Jog on Cecil.
@RichardElden - what you know abut Irish history could be written on the back of a stamp; In your case one with Lizzie Saxe Coburg Goethe perched upon it. How generous of you murdering bastards to promise us Home Rule. Pity you made a pigs ear of it by trying to delay it indefinitely while ye went off and fought your monarchs cousins. It was this crass stupidity and Irelands unassailable right to fight for its freedom that led to the Republic. The fools, the fools.
No, but the decision to become a Republic & leave was made while he was!
"Ireland had not participated actively in the Commonwealth for some years prior to the Act, but was regarded, at least by the other Commonwealth governments, as not having left the Commonwealth."
At one point I could respect your arguments, now they're just nonsensical and ridiculous. Next you'll tell me what Cromwell did here was necessary and the work of a hero.
I don't understand your logic. 750 years of oppression from the peoples of the geographical are of Britain resulted in many uprisings, several famines, the near destruction of Irish culture, which of these makes the Commonwealth attractive? Conciliation would be great, but the only possible way I can see Ireland joining the Commonwealth is if Ireland as an island was ruled from Dublin.
Groan! What you can't grasp, (because you have never bothered to do the thinking or research for yourself & simply swallowed Rep' BS hook, line & sinker), is that the reason we LEFT the Commonwealth, was not because we became a Republic, like RSA, but because Dev could no longer face the Leaders of the other Commonwealth Nations after WW2!!
Every 1 of them except Eire, fought the Nazi Filth, even feckin' INDIA who were STILL under the Brit Empire then! THAT was fighting oppression!
Dev said lots of stuff, then turned around & did the exact opposite! This being a case in point & one of many examples of his duplicity; he was a brazen liar in truth.
It's not our fault the EU is bullying us. It is our fault however that we made idiotic economic decisions as a people. (I don't blame me because I'm too young to have had anything to do with it.)
Yeah, but do you really think Irish people would want to join the British Commonwealth, after centuries of atrocities like pitch-capping etc.? Sure the Irish Rebels had their fair share and can't be exempted from blame, but they were the ones being oppressed.
It hasn't been called the "British Commonwealth" in decades. It's "The Commonwealth of Nations" in actual fact. And "Nelson Mandela, famously said: “The Commonwealth makes the world safe for diversity.”, then it can't be all bad, surely?
Anyway, like it or not, we share so much cultural & history with other English-speaking, former British empire Nations like Canada, Aus, NZ etc. Even India wanted to stay part of the Commonwealth FFS!
But you're also right in saying that Ireland is being bullied by the European Union. The second referendum on Lisbon was disgraceful enough, that's a complete contradiction of democracy but then they want us to change our corporation tax because they can't compete? (Them being Germany, France, the other larger European economies) The EU doesn't stand for a European Community any more, it only operates to sustain financial stability, bullying small nations to get it's way.
I see your original conversation revolved around re-unification. I disagree with re-unification too, even though I'm from the south, we have our independence and we don't want people who disagree with it. They're not Irish, they're Northern Irish.
But saying we weren't oppressed is just wrong. The penal laws, the ban on Irish language, literature and customs, and the putting down of several rebellions is oppression. Ireland never asked to join a foreign political entity.
@RichardElden Ireland was subjugated, her people almost brought to genocide, oppressed for 800 years. Her fourth green field yet to be liberated, but that is only a matter of time, as England secedes and casts off her welfare sucking toadies to the west, north and northwest. The Irish can have their green field back, the sooner the better. Maybe you can go and get Argentinian citizenship ?
@RichardElden The Irish were screwed left right and centre by their forced union with England and Scotland. They were used as cannon fodder, lost their language, their economy was forced to artificially serve Britain's interests and were left to starve during and after their famine. YOU might whitewash their factual history but THEY don't forget. The Malvinas' oil around the Malvinas Islands should and will eventually be paying taxation to the legitimate sovereign of the area, Argentina.
@RichardElden Englishmen built the empire. The capital of the empire was/is in England. The economic/political/social centre was/is London. Tell me, who signs International treaties for your lump of rotten worthless wet sod of earth ? England ......
Las Islas Malvinas is another worthless lump of earth.
fs the amount of wannabe political commentators here is ridiculous, none of what any of you will say here matters, so stop acting as you people are the greatest political minds in the world.
Ireland would vote in a socialist government before they'd apply to rejoin the Commonwealth. Republics aren't perfect, but something leads me to believe countries are better when they're not being oppressed.
Eh, you don't have to adopt oul' Queenie as Head of State to be in the Commonwealth! The Republic of South Africa, REjoined after being expelled during the Apartheid era. Mr. Mandela himself wanted RSA to return to the Commonwealth in fact. I think many South Africans, would take issue with your claim that being in the Commonwealth = Being oppressed, something Mandela might know a wee bit about I'd think!!
Our leaving the Commonwealth was all to do with Dev & his isolationism.
P.S. During the worst days of Apartheid, it was a Commonwealth city that changed the name of 1 of it's streets to "Nelson Mandela Place".
That may not sound like much, until I tell you, that it happened to be the street on which the Apartheid Era South African Consulate stood LOL!! So all the Apartheid SA officials, had to quote "19 Nelson Mandela Place" as their official address, while their government held him in prison!
@RichardElden I am glad you are concerned about the welfare payments that England is having to make, the sooner the English taxpayer stops subsidising NI welfare junkies the better. De Valera was right about the North, only take it on his terms. I hear the Malvinas are looking for more settlers ......
Scotland will do just fine as an independent country. Its people and natural resources will see it through, the business acumen of scottish citizens will see it fine as part of the wider European Union.
Nor'n Irelan' is already being subsumed into the rest of the country and within 15-20 years the politics of change will transfer political power to Dublin. You'll get used to having the jackeens telling you what to do. Who knows the President may even come from --oh she already does...Tick tock
@RichardElden English taxpayers (corporate and personal) are just fed up with subsidising spongers in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. At least the Irish are willing to pay back the loans made to them. The sooner the subsidisation ends the better and the sooner Scotland kicks off on her own the better too.
If the people of the south want the north after that they are welcome to it. There is NO strategic interest in the holding onto the north. The sooner it goes, the better if you ask me.
@GAELMIC we are not a people to be bought or sold by some english piece of shite such as yourself, go stick your ugly toothtles gob on the jk show or go and burn down london, Manchester and Liverpool as your type has done in the past. But do not come crying for an Ulsterman or its police to bail you scum out again.
@Flamorgan Give me the £4 BILLION the English Taxpayer pays every year and the equivalent has paid for the last 20 years and it would make lots of lives in England far more comfortable. "Ulstermen" are great at sponging, and are experts at dressing up their needs, big motorbikes, big farms, welfare this welfare that. ENOUGH I SAY.
@RichardElden A loan not a bailout, just like Greece. Just like the UK received from the USA during WW2, and the UK only paid off about 3-4 years ago (it took 60 years....). Polls as you well know are meaningless, political change is all about timing. But hey, how are all of these Londonbelfasters going to vote in Belfast when they are all living in the Northern England ? Shana Tova on this beautiful Rosh Hashanah.
@RichardElden Well, with friends like them what good would their promises be ? What good was it to the Polish people, to the Jewish people ? The camps were NEVER bombed. The myth is that Churchill and his cronies were fighting fascism, he was fighting to hold onto the British Empire, it was the americans who liberated the western countries and the Soviets (....communist fascists) who liberated the eastern countries from Nazism.
@RichardElden Only the banks are bankrupt. And who did we inherit them from ? The British.........
The Northern economy is a a joke, it has being on welfare since the 1600s. Even now it can't survive without massive English taxpayers' money. It would be better to move 75% of the population over to Northern England and feed them there , where it would be cheaper and more efficient. they could call the new artificial city Londonbelfast ?? Not a bad idea huh ? That would keep everybody happy.
You are an historical ignoramus! The North has been the ONLY part of the island to ever develop significant industry FFS! And prior to the Plantation, there were NO towns, never mind cities in Ulster! The city of Belfast, like it or not, was BUILT by the immigrant, industrious Proddy Scots.
NI, & indeed Ulster, owe everything they are, both good & ill, to the Planters, and if you knew any Ulster history, you'd be aware of that!
@DonegalRaymie201 'You are an historical ignoramus!' Oh the irony of it.
You thought the Blitz ended in October 1940 until I told you otherwise. You even based an entire thesis on why a belligerent Eire wouldn't have been bombed during the Blitz based on it, and never modified it when I corrected the date.
You then accused me not making a 'cogent argument' when I contradicted you, indicating other problems you have with the English language.
You're a Liar & a plagiarist! That you're reduced to copying my lines & "patter" is flattering, but try coming up with your own!
"you even based an entire thesis on why a belligerent Eire wouldn't have been bombed during the Blitz" Total bullshit! I made a DIRECT ANALOGY on why ANY bombing Eire would have received, would have been comparable, but less, to Scotland's treatment by the Luftwaffe. Less because we're further away & had fewer industrial targets, other than BELFAST!
@DonegalRaymie201 You are quite correct about your the analogy, it seemed to go along those lines indeed. Please accept my sincerest contrafibularities.
But you are still an 'historical ignoramus:' you didn't know when the blitz continued after October 1940, and because you still think Belfast was bombed for its industrial targets, apparently this was relevant because it was something Eire had less of.
And we were further away (?). Further away from what/where Raymie? London? Berlin?
@DonegalRaymie201 Get an education pal. In the 1700s human habitation throughout western europe was agrarian in the main, with a town of 30,000 considered big, you clown. Selectively representing historical data only discloses your specious diatribe. The South is growing, bigger, more populous and more influential. The North is greening and coalescing with the South again. Tick tock, tick tock, Devalera's vision will yet come to pass. Devalera condemned the Nazis, never the allies. UP DEV !!
You moron, are a fuckin' LIAR! Dev NEVER, in his petty existence, condemned the Nazis, nor even ADMITTED the Horrors of the Holocaust! He was in modern terms, a "Holocaust Denier"!
The Allies in Ulster however, he happily condemned, as "An army of occupation", the hypocritical prick!
Here: "There is no evidence that Prime Minister Eamon de Valera uttered any condemnation of German atrocities."
I've forgotten more about the Ulster history than your puny excuse for a brain could hold!
@RichardElden Churchill never overran Iceland. The Icelandics invited the Americans in and used the lull of the second world war to undo the Danish Crown colonial administration. If Churchill's warmongerers had come back again to Ireland he would have found them far less welcoming the second time round and every Irishman and Irishwoman would have been a potential assassin for the rest of his life. He knew, despite the rhetoric, that Dev had right on his side about his Nation's interests.
@RichardElden Devalera condemned the invasion of Poland, Holland and Belgium. He didn't have long range bombers - Why did not the Allies bomb the railway lines to the camps despite knowing about them from 1942 until 1945. Not one was bombed, millions of Jewish people could have survived if those camps had been put out of action ??? This was as much a War Crime because they could have acted and NEVER DID. Churchill never ordered their bombing when he could have.
Churchill's war with Germany was n imperial war in 1939, a continuation of the failed policies after World War 1, which was in its turn a war between the old empires and a rising empire, Germany. Ireland/Éire/TheFreeState chose democratically to avoid being party to another warmongers' head to head. The commonwealth in the 1940s was nothing more than English colonial regimes doing their master's bidding. De Valera showed that the Irish were no longer British !
@DonegalRaymie201 Very interesting revisionist History there. England (Churchill et al) denied Ireland's elected representatives in 1919. Jailed India's, the Jewel in the Crown, their democratic representation, they set Poland adrift to Stalin's clutches. They NEVER bombed the Nazi death camps despite being aware of them for a whole two years. Hurling personal insults at me belittles you.
It is the right of every sovereign country to decide when to enter into war. Ireland suffered enough.
Shitforbrains, how on Earth, would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there??? Go on, explain the basic logic underlying that conclusion?
They bombed the railway lines, that led to them, and they defeated the insane Third Reich! What did Dev do???
He couldn't even sum up the decency & courage to condemn the Nazis. EVER! Your "hero", not mine!
@DonegalRaymie201 According to the World Jewish Congress bombing Auschwitz would have stopped its use as a death camp. Many surviving Jews said they could not understand why it was not bombed, it would have ended their suffering and prevented others from suffering also. According to the Allies, bombing Auschwitz was a wast of resources needed elsewhere. In fact it was decided at the Bermuda Conference that the Allies should not relieve the Germans of their responsibility to the Jews.
Christ sake, HOW "would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there??? Go on, explain the basic logic underlying that conclusion?"
The Allies did at least liberate them, what did Dev do, remind me??? Have tea with Hempel and ask after the Fuhrer health?
@DonegalRaymie201 'HOW "would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there???'
Who said anything about saving those in the camp? Thats right, Jewish advocate groups knew they could not be saved, but if the means of genocide could be halted then it was worth it. Shocking isn't it.
Pity Jewish Advocate Groups were banned from attending the Bermuda Conference though. It reduces the ending of the holocaust to a mere happy accident at the end of the war. Hindsight is 20/20
@DonegalRaymie201 'The Allies did at least liberate them, what did Dev do, remind me??? Have tea with Hempel and ask after the Fuhrer health?'
How vulgar: 'The Allies did at least liberate them', only highlights the poverty of your argument that the war against Hitler was a moral war. It was not. It never was. To say so is an inappropriate use of hindsight.
I have no idea why Dev visited Hempel, I'm certainly not going to defend it.
Yeah well, there's plenty about Dev's WW2 behaviour you've been comprehensively unable to defend before, so nothing new there.
As to "Allies did at least liberate them', only highlights the poverty of your argument that the war against Hitler was a moral war"? Explain the logic of that conclusion then?
The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!
@DonegalRaymie201 Raymie, it is the height of 'Biblical Hypocrisy' for an imperial power to claim it was fighting a war over Nazi racism. The war was fought to stifle German hegemony in Europe, just like WW1. It was a war of National Interest, nothing to do with German 'morals' as blatantly indicated by the Bermuda Conference. All behaved in their own national interest between 1939-45.
Why do you think you would recognise a comprehensive defence of an argument Raymie?
Who the fuck claimed that? It's DEV's "Biblical Hypocrisy" that I've highlighted here, which you have been utterly unable to counter in any way, so now you are pathetically reduced to attempting to digress & obfuscate!
Just answer the bloody point!
"The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!"
@DonegalRaymie201 "The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!"
To which I replied:
'it is the height of 'Biblical Hypocrisy' for an imperial power to claim it was fighting a war over Nazi racism'.
And "Many surviving Jews said they could not understand why it was not bombed"?? Because then, there would not have been jewish survivors for the Allies to liberate!
The Allies targeted the rail lines, the Nazi infrastructure etc, not the bloody innocent prisoners! Makes perfect sense.
@DonegalRaymie201 You just don't get it. DeValera was a politician steering his ship of state out of the British Empire, surrounded by imperialist interests all over Europe. Anglophiles have an incredible amnesia about the atrocious consequences for their colonised nations while they take the moral high ground because the Nazis have turned out to have been so bad. The allies introduced carpet bombing, the allies dropped the only nuclear bombs in history. It can be explained but THEY still did it
@RichardElden Ahhh, the British Commonwealth of Nations, that old 'free' association of countries that were required to pander to England's needs and to be sacrificed by Mr. Churchill if it meant the survival of Royalist England and English Royal culture. They could give up their life's blood to defend a class ridden closed society. Thank God that America took over after the Second World War and Grassroots Democracy has become the norm.
Yawn! Your ignorance is stunning. Eire was still in the Commonwealth during WW2, and was in fact the ONLY Commonwealth Nation to remain Neutral to Nazism!
EVERY Commonwealth Nation, made their own choice to fight or not, and they all, bar Eire, chose to oppose Nazism, while Dev parked his arse on the fence! And like it or not, Canada, Aus, NZ, SA etc all STILL remain in the Commonwealth, because they choose to.
And BTW, Brit' treatment of the Black GIs caused the Civil Rights movement
@DonegalRaymie201 Of course the Free State was still in the commonwealth in the 1940s, but DeValera was showing that Ireland/Éire would follow its own democratic path. With hindsightful revisionism you ignore that the European war was just a continuation of the first world war. DeValera also opposed Nazism but chose not to follow the warmonger's path. The Civil Rights movement dates back to the Civil War, d'uh. Everything centres around the Brits ??? Move on.
You know FA! Nobody, but Hitler was spoiling for War in the 1930's, it was a War he was determined to have as part of his Masterplan! And it wasn't a European War, but a World one, hence the name WW2, get it?
"DeValera also opposed Nazism"?? Really, then why did he NEVER in his Lifetime even condemn the Nazis? The prick went his grave never even having admitted the horrors of the Holocaust either ya moron!
As to the US Civil Rights movement, it sprung out of WW2! Go read a book!
@DonegalRaymie201 The second world war only became so named because of the war in the Pacific. Hitler didn't fight there. Hitler threatened war in the 1930s and kept his promise. The British have fought wars in every generation from the 1300s on and interfered in other people's affairs from Ireland to India, to America, to Malaysia to Oman, from Argentina to even threatening the Icelandics for their fish. Read about the US Civil War and Lincoln decisions in 1863-1864, and then come back to me.
Bullshit! It was ALWAYS WW2, well before the Yanks finally joined in, BECAUSE there were belligerent Nations from EVERY Continent, RIGHT from the Start!
"British have fought wars in every generation from the 1300s on"?? Eh???
Are you Special Needs too? There WAS no British anything before 1707 moron!
And US Civil War, was over SLAVERY, not fuckin' "Civil Rights" or Universal Suffrage, ya eejit! In any case Wilberforce long predates Lincoln on that too!
de valera was an asshole and a coward! he didn't bother to fight in the war as he was a Nazi sympathizer and a tool of the church! i hope he burns in hell for forever!
@33guyfawkes A coward? Is your knowledge of history that bad? Eire is a democracy, De Valera couldn't take the country into the war even he wanted to, he would have had no support! If providing aid to the British right through the war makes him a Nazi sympathiser then you must be an idiot.
wish the people who come in here to make comments could do it in a mature fashion instead of using words that really have no value at all. Try using words the teachers taught you in school.
wish the people who come in here to make comments could do it in a mature fashion instead of using words that really have no value at all. Try using words they gave you in school .
@RichardElden How crude, but no actually that is wholly incorrect and inaccurate.
A Republic is a very fair system, any child in a Republic can dream of one day becoming President and head of state. That is not case in the UK..
The current US President was born with a mum on food stamps, the current UK monarch was born with her mother on postage stamps. PS. any more gutter language from you, i presume thats where your're from and I will have to delete your posts.
Belfast endured one, single long night of the Blitz! London had it nightly for years!
So I take it you didn't know that more Irishmen served in the Brit army in WW2, than your "brave Loyalists" did? Or that NI was the ONLY part of the UK that did NOT have conscription???
Churchill didn't retake the Treaty ports, but he would have done if he needed to. The USA's entry into WW2 made that unnecessary.
I've said already that Eire should have allowed the Allies use of the Ports.
Yes well Churchill was possessed of a brain unlike you, & could ill afford to waste precious resources on reoccupying the Free State! It would also have meant an end to Irish volunteers in the Brit army, if not their outright desertion!!!
You did know that the South contributed more men in WW2, than you Loyalists in the North didn't you???
As I said- well to put it mildly, thankully you weren't Churchill because you would have lost the battle of Britain if you did invade Éire, putting the supply of war materiel from the USA in jeopardy, wasting RAF resources etc, Pat Finucane would have deserted along with many other ighter aces...no way of getting around that. And your Fuhrer Craig doesn't deserve the title of Prime Minister as he was elected by a rigged or gerrymandered electorate, but that's for another day.
You don't believe the authoritive source? ok...stick your head in the sand then.
As for your delusions of grandeur and your desire to commit mass genocide..well to put it mildly, thank god that you weren't Churchill because you would have lost the battle of Britain if you did invade Éire, wasting RAF resources etc. Pat Finucane would have deserted along with many others. and Dresden was reduced to a cinder not rubble. The black and Tans didn't exist in 1940 either. Sigh.
What "authoritive source [sic]"? Sticking "Australian Navy" next to a post does ZERO credibilty give!
We KNOW that Hitler's plans didn't turn to USSR until June 1941, it's in every fuckin' WW2 History text, that you so obviously have never bothered to read!
So I'll ask again, when did the Luftwaffe blitz Belfast, Liverpool & Clydeside???
Are you trolling? You didn't understand what I was saying at all, I'll try again. You maintain that because Britain and NI was being bombed it meant Hitler was trying to invade. this is incorrect. I posed to you a question akin to this- was Hitler trying to invade on March 8 1945 when a V2 landed on Farringdon killing 110? obviously No he wasn't. Operation Sealion, the invasion of Britain was postponed indefinitely on Oct 12 or Sept 17 1940 -''David Shears, "Hitler’s D-Day"'
As for your ''Hitler's plans didn't turn to USSR until June 1941'' ...WRONG, firstly, That was the month in which the invasion commenced, it is not however when Hitler's plans began. Patrick Shrier- ''The German War against Russia was almost preordained, as early as 1937 Hitler was planning on going to war against the Russians in order to gain "Lebensraum" or living space. ''Planning for Operation Barbarossa begin with the Fuehrer Directive #21 on 18 December 1940.
I don't know where you are getting that date from, ''The operation was cancelled on 12 October 1940 when Hitler’s priority shifted to Operation BARBAROSSA and the invasion of the Soviet Union'' - Source the Australian Navy. Secondly it would have been easier for the British Navy to just occupy the ports and defend them, an invasion of Éire would have been disastrous-all bridges ports and harbors were to be demolished upon invasion by either Nazi or British.
Churchill wouldn't have been able to overrun Ireland, do you know how many LDF soldiers there were here? It would have been a terribly costly invasion that Churchill knew would be utterly useless, if the Nazi's weren't going to invade here that is. Hitler abandoned his plans to Invade Both Ireland and Britain on the 12th of Oct 1940, he instead began focusing his attention East, that's what saved both of our countries.
Yes apparently Hitler did abandon the Invasion of Britain and Ireland on the 12th of Oct 1940, see my reply to RichardElden for my source on that information. and hahaah The Blitz and an invasion are not mutually inclusive. Just think about it, Was Hitler trying to Invade Britain in 1944 & 45 when V-1 & V2 missiles were landing? the answer of course is no. The Blitz only really began when the RAF bombed Civilian Berlin, it was revenge, hence the names for the V/A weapons.
Incorrect, The battle of Britain ened in October 1940, the Blitz however is not the Battle of Britain, the Blitz can be described as a tit for tat bombing campaign against civilian targets. The V1 & V2's hit both Holland and France, I was using them as an example that just because someone is bombing you doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to invade, they may however have other desires like causing you to pull out of the War etc. or indeed perhaps just pure 'Vengeance'.
The BoB BECAME the Blitz, as Hitler switched tactics:
"Instead he opted to try to crush British morale, while maintaining the threat of invasion. Hitler concluded this might result in "eight million going mad" (referring to the population of London in 1940), which would "cause a catastrophe" for the British. In those circumstances, Hitler said, "even a small invasion might go a long way". At this point Hitler was against cancelling the invasion."
Your Quote is dated Sept 14th, I will glady make you aware again that by Oct 12 1940 the Planned invasion was postponed indefinitely. You are again helping me make my point, thanks! It is of note that the Blitz was a blunder, if the Luftwaffe had continued the attacks on the Dowding system and airfields, most historians believe that the RAF would have been destroyed, The London bombing 24 Aug 1940, was the turning point of the BoB. ''The Blitz saved Britain'' look it up!
Utter Bull! Hitler POSTPONED the Invasion in October '40 until Spring '41, because he had missed his weather window in 1940, but he continued & indeed intensified his bombing of the UK until June of '41; softening up his enemy in advance of his planned invasion: "even a small invasion might go a long way"!
Point is, he did NOT abandon his invasion plans in '41, but by his own words, hoped to invade in Spring '41!!
The Luftwaffe had suffered more losses than RAF in BoB too!
Dev a hero??? Are you feckin' jokin? The man was the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland: he was a backwards looking pedant, who ruined the economy, isolated the Nation, and but the rotteness of the RC church into every corner of Government. And we've been paying for that ever since!
Anyway, he was a Yank, and Jim Connolly was a Scot, but otherwise, Dev is unworthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as a man like Connolly, who actually HAD Principles!
@RichardElden im sorry but a brit cant talk about being a slave to someone, the english are the americans bitch, collins signed it because he got nervous they were all false threats Dev sent collins in because he knew he wouldnt get independence and this would turn the irish public against collins
@RichardElden in what world were the IRA terrorists? they were freedom fighters the IRA around now just use that as a name, lol the mighty british army could put down a tiny rebel uprising says it all doesnt it lol so once again thats a lie
@RichardElden well when you look at it that way the nazis couldnt beat the british but the ira beat the english need i remind you that when the ira ran the best the english had the ira were untrained unorganised and outnumbered
Brainless, the Brits never even sent in their army in 1919-21! Collins was only up against the RIC/Black & Tans, yet he signed the Treaty because he knew he couldn't last another week, (according to his own words!)
And your heros, the IRA crawled into bed with the Nazis in WW2, and tried to sign up as a Division of the Waffen SS!! IRA leader Sean Russell DIED on board a U-Boat, returning from Germany FFS!!
@DonegalRaymie201 oh god i have to wipe the floor with this guy again, auxilleries were british army genius they were sent in against the ira, and fair enough the enemy of our enemy is our temporary friend now go bother someone else you knob end
Utter Bull! The black & tans were the POLICE auxilliaries, ya brainless twat!! There was NEVER a Regiment in the Brit army by that name then or now!
Now go Goosestep around your bedroom & pine for your Fuhrer, ya retarded Nazi!
(The ULTIMATE insult is that Himmler didn't even want the IRA in his SS, because he described them as "Disorganized and shambolic") Ha fuckin' Ha Moron! The only thing worse than being a Nazi??? Being a Nazi reject!!!
You're a Nazi apologist, which is worse! You don't get that Russell & IRA had climbed into bed with the Third Reich, while NI, Scotland, Wales & 60,000 DECENT Irishmen were fighting and dying to stop the c*nts! And all the while Hitler was planning to invade & occupy Eire anyway!!!
Wrong about what Joe?? Operation Green? The Black & Tans being RIC auxiliaries? Sean Russell dying on board a Nazi U-Boat? Germany sharing a border with France? etc etc Do tell!!
@DonegalRaymie201 actually your wrong about the auxillaries, and you do realise its common knowledge that germany borders with france you absoloute tool, you dont even know what your talkin about
You're the brainless prick that claimed: "he invaded holland and belgium in order to get to france!" Caught out by your own moronic words; Read it & weep arsepiece! And the Black & Tans were NEVER part of the Brit Army, Fuckwit!
Try reading a book or something, you complete diddy!
@DonegalRaymie201 they did but i never said they never bordered did i? and the black and tans were sent over to ireland after WW1 in many ways they were the rejects of the war and the brits dumped them in ireland
Exactly as above, ya intellect vacuum! You DON'T need to invade Holland & Belgium to get to France from Germany brainless, and as I said, the Brit Army, were NEVER deployed in Ireland, during 1919-21 War!!!
What part of this does your tiny wee mind fail to grasp cretin???
@DonegalRaymie201 ugh do i really have to explain this again? hitler used this as means of a diversion, the maginot line was the only part of france defended so why not invade holland and belgium 1st to distract the french and then charge in after it, and the brit army was involved maybe not directly involved but involved nonetheless
@DonegalRaymie201 and im agreeing with you he did invade throught the ardennes forest after he invaded holland and belgium, black and tans were rejects from the war completely differant from the auxillaries
Once more, JoeMoron claimed: "auxilleries were british army genius.."!
But, behold:
"The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary (ADRIC), generally known as the Auxiliaries or Auxies, was a paramilitary organization within the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) during the Irish War of Independence."
And:
"the term Black and Tans is sometimes used to refer to the RIC Auxiliary Division.[1]"
America didn't enter the war until it was attacked, long after Britain was getting the svt bombed out of it.
All sovereign countries act in national interest. Britain has done it throughout its history, and never cared about anyone else but itself. Ireland was right to do the same.
LOGOS422 4 hours ago
Brilliant speech, perhaps his best, and deserves to be better known.
4Cranleigh 4 weeks ago
and to all denigrating the actions of de velera in keeping the Republic OUT,you say the same about sWItzerland ? didn't think so....
Churchill had his Ulster and the bases there,so what more did he want ?
yeah poor old freeekin Ireland was such a threat be it from espionage or whatever.
everywhere the brits have gone they destroyed the nations they took over via their proven methods of PARTITION.
today they're simply part of eurabia and karma's a real bitch.
Saoirseff 1 month ago
@Saoirseff
It wasn't the Republic then, that's the whole point! The Freestate was still part of the Commonwealth, but was the only member to NOT fight the Nazis.
De Valera was a Total Hypocrite, who used Northern Ireland as a cheap excuse to stay out of WW2, because of his "claim" to it! But then amazingly FORGOT that claim to NI, when Hitler bombed the fuck out of Belfast, which he didn't even condemn!
Also, he NEVER condemned the Nazis for anything, even the Holocaust!
DonegalRaymie201 3 weeks ago
@DonegalRaymie201 actually de velera sent aid to northern ireland during the blitz.
chadcoreyslater 2 weeks ago
@chadcoreyslater
He sent about 80 firemen over the border for a few hours, 'till 300 from Clydeside and another 200 from Merseyside arrived, just to put that "aid" in perspective!
But he NEVER, condemned or protested the bombing, or ANYTHING the Nazis did, not even the Holocaust FFS.
Yet he did find time to visit the German Legation in Dublin, for tea & sympathy and official condolances when Hitler finally shot himself: What a man, eh?
DonegalRaymie201 2 weeks ago
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@DonegalRaymie201 'It wasn't the Republic then, that's the whole point! The Freestate was still part of the Commonwealth, but was the only member to NOT fight the Nazis'
Actually the Free State ceased to exist following the adoption of the 1937 Constitution. Being a member of the Commonwealth obliged no one to join the conflict.
jratt2 4 days ago
@jratt2 'He sent about 80 firemen over the border for a few hours, 'till 300 from Clydeside and another 200 from Merseyside arrived, just to put that "aid" in perspective!'
If you measure sincerity by resources available, why was it important for Eire to abandon neutrality in the first place?
jratt2 4 days ago
@jratt2
Who's measuring "sincerity" you moron?? I was putting that much vaunted "aid", in perspective!
It was miserly and utterly tokenistic, relative to what was required, ya arse!
DonegalRaymie201 4 days ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Also, he NEVER condemned the Nazis for anything, even the Holocaust!'
I'll tell you what, why don't you do the Hysterical and leave the Historical to someone else? You just keep dropping the clangers!
Dev condemned the invasion of the low-countries in 1940!
jratt2 4 days ago
@jratt2
Where was his CONDEMNATION of the Belfast Blitz then? You know the Territory that he claimed has rightly his, and his reason in this very speech for "Neutrality"? Or the Holocaust? Or the Nazis regime??
Away an shite, ya hypocritcal arsepiece!
DonegalRaymie201 4 days ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Why would he condemn the blitz?
I'm surprised he never thanked Germany.
DontFeckWithMeLad 3 days ago
@DontFeckWithMeLad
Well he probably did, when he went to express his official condolences to the Nazi Legation in Dublin on Hitler's suicide!
Not that World Class Hypocrisy bothered him or you eh? I mean, why would he want to condemn those who bombed the arse out of Territory, he claimed was properly his??
And you wonder why the North wants FA to do with you???
DonegalRaymie201 2 days ago
@DonegalRaymie201 He did, after Churchill mocked him and Ireland (video related). I would have done the same.
Let's not count the ways both sides are into hypocrisy up to their necks. The prods have more than enough blood on their hands.
Fact of the matter is(and the only thing that does matter), you're being replaced by non-protestants. That's all that matters. The game just requires a patient ROI and an .... active "Catholic" population in the north.
DontFeckWithMeLad 2 days ago
@DontFeckWithMeLad
Bullshit eejit! Dev went to suck Nazi Dick, before the Nazis even surrendered, and LONG before Churchill reminded him of who saved Eire from the Nazi jackboots!
The PEOPLE of NI learned an important lesson in WW2! And they have NEVER forgotten who they could ACTUALLY count on, when the chips were down!
Guess what eejit?? It was NOT the People with whom they shared an island!!!
But the People with whom they STILL share a Nation moron!
DonegalRaymie201 2 days ago
@DontFeckWithMeLad
Dream on eejit! No one in NI is in the least bit interested in a United Ireland! Support for that fell to a pityful 16% in 2010 FFS!
The ROI lost ANY Moral claim to NI during WW2, and if you had EVER lived in the North, you'd know how divisive that was! NOTHING divides, like when a People are at War, while a Neighbour refuses to even ACKNOWLEDGE that War, and instead dismisses it as an "Emergency"!
Dev was a fuckin Hypocrite, just like you!
DonegalRaymie201 2 days ago
@DonegalRaymie201 If the Nazis had overrun Iceland I think Churchill would have had to overrun the Free State, as Lord Craigavon urged him to. Otherwise the Royal Navy wouldn't have been able to refuel during the Battle of the Atlantic.
MrRobertJameson 1 day ago
@DontFeckWithMeLad Many nationalists here would vote to remain in the UK rather than unite with the bankrupt, third world south.
MrRobertJameson 1 day ago
GOBSHITE de valera
meakd 1 month ago 3
@meakd Why?
mrdrawde 1 month ago
Winston Churchill on hearing this speech admitted that this was "Devil Eire's" (as Churchill called him) .....Finest Hour- It certainly was De Valera's greatest moment
erniepimlott 1 month ago
what an amazing speech....top class...he got a standing ovation in the dail the day after
baguhmeister 1 month ago
@baguhmeister
It's a piece of utter, specious crap, that appeals to historical retards only, who can't see the glaring errors in it!
Guess that makes you part of the club!
DonegalRaymie201 1 month ago
DeVelara was a grade A cunt.
floppykid 2 months ago 2
@floppykid not everyone would agree with that, he had some off the wall ideas, and was a devout Catholic. But at least he didnt spend his time on Youtube calling people cunts.
baguhmeister 1 month ago
@floppykid did you know the man?
IRISHREM1234 1 month ago
@IRISHREM1234
Studied him to a relatively extensive degree.
He was a dick, a consummate selfish politician.
floppykid 1 month ago
@RichardElden You're a real jackass if you think people killed whether American or any nationality is something to celebrate. Modern people don't blow up people...they sue which is something both Protestants and Catholics should do in Northern Ireland. You're a sad sack maniac if you think anyone killed by anyone is an event about which to rejoice.
paddycentered 2 months ago
@paddycentered
Mmm, "Modern people don't blow up people" and yet "Up the USA! Up the IRA! Up YOURS!"
Just as I suspected, you're a complete & utter fuckin' hypocritical Yank! And here's the proof, enjoy!
DonegalRaymie201 2 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Yeah definitely, but regardless of the time period colonisation was still wrong. I mean, the French colonised Vietnam in the 19th century too and caused a massive famine, but it was no less wrong than any of the previous English conquests. Even if society then accepted it, there was always those who saw what was happening was pure brutality. I'm sure if Ireland was in England's position they would've done the same.
OldElPasta 2 months ago
@OldElPasta
"regardless of the time period colonisation was still wrong"?? Then was it wrong of the "Scotti" tribes from Ulster to cross the North Channel and found Dal Riata in Argyle in the 3rd & 4th Centuries, and to inhabit the whole of the West Coast of Caledonia in the years thereafter? And later to usurp the Kingdom of the Picts and rename the country "Scotland"?
The whole history of Europe is one of migration, invasion & colonisation. Ireland was just spared this 'till much later.
DonegalRaymie201 2 months ago
@RichardElden
It is impossible to defend the expansionist policy of England because at it's core it was inherently wrong. Whether or not Ireland was a united state, the English had no right to invade and decide everything for the Irish. The world is much more liberal now, and if Scotland wanted independence, the international community would fully and wholly support them Similarly, if a referendum to unite the island of Ireland was successful, England would have no right to prevent it.
OldElPasta 2 months ago
@OldElPasta
You're right about the World accepting Scots Independence, (looking likely) or a United Ireland, should NI vote for it,(not so likely), but the "expansionist policy of England", well, you have to put it in Historical context!
You said it yourself: "world is much more liberal now"; equally, you can't apply the Morality of the 21st Century to the 12th! It's utterly facile.
What the "English" did to Ireland in the 12th Century, the Normans did to them in the 11th remember???
DonegalRaymie201 2 months ago
England intentionally destabilized indigenous Irish populations & emigrated Protestants to that effect. The resulting strife is in Ireland is exactly as England knew or should have known would result from their policies, practices, occupation and manipulation of Protestant & Catholic populations in Ireland. Destabalization of Ireland was England's intent & England should be held legally liable for its remarkable & sad success. Y'all should have lunch with lawyers & jointly sue.
paddycentered 2 months ago
@RichardElden Lockerbie? Wasn't that Scotland? Why would you be glad about that? Was Lockerbie intentionally repopulated by Islamists?
paddycentered 2 months ago
@RichardElden
Aye, and it was an Independent Scotland then too! What's your point?
DonegalRaymie201 2 months ago
@RichardElden
And WHO is this "us"? That's the whole feckin' point! You don't know what you are Dick!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago 3
@RichardElden
Good for them! I've been there, & I'd attack it too!
People there are like you Dick, they don't know what they are! They don't know if they're English or Scots & don't "fit" in either!
You'd be right at home there, as you don't know WTF you are either!!!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden Aye,that's why they were fought on Scot's soil ya eejit!
"We will blow up the oil rigs."?? You'll be needing your nappy changed first Dick!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago 4
@RichardElden
Is there any beginning to your knowledge? Non-English MP's do NOT vote on England only legislation by convention, but the whole "West Lothian" question will be solved by Scots Independence anyway! Ha ha!
You won't find any mention of "Braveheart" in the SNP manifesto, it's Hollywood Dick, but the basics were accurate. Wallace DID defeat Edward I at Stirling Bridge, and Bruce routed the English at Bannockburn!
Shetland has been Scots for most of a Millenium & half UK Army is Scots
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Dick ya eejit, England has ALWAYS had it's Parliament; it's called Westminster, & it's been England's Parliament LONG, LONG before there was ever a UK!!
Why/how are the SNP "racist"?
And the Shetland Isles, have been part of the ancient Kingdom of Scotland since 1136AD, you feckin' moron! See that's what you don't get, NI is but an infant, but England & Scotland are ANCIENT Nations, both long predating this temporary idea of a "UK"!
How/why could Cameron stop Scot's Independence?
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Christ Dick, you're like a Broken Record, just repeating the same oul' shite!
The Scots have just given Salmond an ABSOLUTE MAJORITY in Edinburgh! The Nat's are in total control of the Parliament and are packin' their suitcases for the journey down Independence Road!
And you forget, the Scots have the oil & new finds of it west of Shetland too! It's "Auld Lang Syne" to the Union Dick!
Get used to it...
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
"If the Scots try to leave then they will have to take us with them. There will certainly be civil war here.
We have plenty of machine guns, grenades, mortars"
Oh Dear Dick, that sounds like Seditious talk! And from a Loyalist supposedly, eh??? Fair weather friends to the Union eh???
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
No Dick, they were REBELLIONS! Salmond is a canny, clever, even "sleekit" politician, who will choose his moment to call the Referendum that delivers him his Independence Mandate, with a Plebiscite from the people!
Do you know the song, "Freedom Cam All Ye"? Have a listen; Luke Kelly's rendition is particularly fine!!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Tough shit, it's on Scottish soil! And Cameron has already conceded that Independence is entirely in Scots hands after the SNP election victory. Also, Salmond has promised the Referendum before the end of this Parliament. So get used to the idea of a new, Half-Britain & NI, LOL!
Self-determination isn't treason Dick, just because you want it to be!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago 2
@RichardElden
Read your history Dick! The Scots had to be bribed into the Union in the 1st place, and if they want to leave it again they will, and they won't ask your permission!
"we have drones and tomahawk missiles." LMAO!! And the Scots have Trident on Holy Loch, off the Clyde, if you're thinking of going down that route eejit!
Careful what you wish for Dick.
Oh, and say goodbye to your beloved Union Jack! It will look different when you remove the Blue Saltire from the background eh???
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Yeah, that right, the Slave Owning Scots want to secede from the Union to keep their all their Tobacco & Cotton Plantations running with slave labour, that must be it!
Have you got an extra chromosome or something Dick, because just when I think I've encountered "Youtube's Most Retarded", you surpass yourself & rise straight to the top of the thick list!!!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RichardElden You are a sick little boy. Go and get help you pitiful loser.
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago 7
@RichardElden So they will start a civil war against nationalists because of a Scottish secession?! Are you posting from a secure mental hospital? Why would nationalists even want to fight over an issue that has nothing to do with them. What next? Loyalists declaring war on the nationalist population because of the political situation in Burma? You are crazier than a sack of rabid squirrels my friend. Ask the nurse for your tablets like a good boy.
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago
@RichardElden 1 + 1 does not equal 3 you utter fool. What in the name of sweet baby Jebus does a Scottish secession have to do with Ireland? Scotland may choose it's own path. They may even make that choice without consulting a greenhorn voyeur like yourself. The horror!!!
Maybe try brain trainer to get your feeble IQ over the 50 mark and come back when you have a point that makes sense.
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago
@RichardElden As I said you know the sum total of jack all about history. "Actively supported"!!!! You are making a total nimrod of yourself. But keep going brains, I'm enjoying "debating" with the brains of Britain. When your balls drop you might cop onto yourself. Till then...toodles. :)
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago
@RichardElden We have the freedom to be whatever we want to be and we don't give a toss what you window licking Brits think. The "glorious" days of rule of the British empire are over. Welcome to being a nondescript irrelevancy off the coast of Europe pal. We have been only bankrupt slaves of the EU for the past 3 years. The previous 80 odd years were not a bed of roses either but it is better to stand alone than be a whimpering lackey of the British empire. Jog on Cecil.
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago
@RichardElden - what you know abut Irish history could be written on the back of a stamp; In your case one with Lizzie Saxe Coburg Goethe perched upon it. How generous of you murdering bastards to promise us Home Rule. Pity you made a pigs ear of it by trying to delay it indefinitely while ye went off and fought your monarchs cousins. It was this crass stupidity and Irelands unassailable right to fight for its freedom that led to the Republic. The fools, the fools.
SuperBabaracus 3 months ago
@RichardElden the black and tans came over here a killed random civilans . home rule was not given in 1914.
MrWeetabixloverx1000 3 months ago
@RichardElden
No, but the decision to become a Republic & leave was made while he was!
"Ireland had not participated actively in the Commonwealth for some years prior to the Act, but was regarded, at least by the other Commonwealth governments, as not having left the Commonwealth."
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
At one point I could respect your arguments, now they're just nonsensical and ridiculous. Next you'll tell me what Cromwell did here was necessary and the work of a hero.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
I don't understand your logic. 750 years of oppression from the peoples of the geographical are of Britain resulted in many uprisings, several famines, the near destruction of Irish culture, which of these makes the Commonwealth attractive? Conciliation would be great, but the only possible way I can see Ireland joining the Commonwealth is if Ireland as an island was ruled from Dublin.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@OldElPasta
Groan! What you can't grasp, (because you have never bothered to do the thinking or research for yourself & simply swallowed Rep' BS hook, line & sinker), is that the reason we LEFT the Commonwealth, was not because we became a Republic, like RSA, but because Dev could no longer face the Leaders of the other Commonwealth Nations after WW2!!
Every 1 of them except Eire, fought the Nazi Filth, even feckin' INDIA who were STILL under the Brit Empire then! THAT was fighting oppression!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Nobody was being oppressed?
Black. And. Tans.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Dev said lots of stuff, then turned around & did the exact opposite! This being a case in point & one of many examples of his duplicity; he was a brazen liar in truth.
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden
It's not our fault the EU is bullying us. It is our fault however that we made idiotic economic decisions as a people. (I don't blame me because I'm too young to have had anything to do with it.)
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Yeah, but do you really think Irish people would want to join the British Commonwealth, after centuries of atrocities like pitch-capping etc.? Sure the Irish Rebels had their fair share and can't be exempted from blame, but they were the ones being oppressed.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@OldElPasta
It hasn't been called the "British Commonwealth" in decades. It's "The Commonwealth of Nations" in actual fact. And "Nelson Mandela, famously said: “The Commonwealth makes the world safe for diversity.”, then it can't be all bad, surely?
Anyway, like it or not, we share so much cultural & history with other English-speaking, former British empire Nations like Canada, Aus, NZ etc. Even India wanted to stay part of the Commonwealth FFS!
You should stop swallowing Rep' BS as Gospel!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
But you're also right in saying that Ireland is being bullied by the European Union. The second referendum on Lisbon was disgraceful enough, that's a complete contradiction of democracy but then they want us to change our corporation tax because they can't compete? (Them being Germany, France, the other larger European economies) The EU doesn't stand for a European Community any more, it only operates to sustain financial stability, bullying small nations to get it's way.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@RichardElden
I see your original conversation revolved around re-unification. I disagree with re-unification too, even though I'm from the south, we have our independence and we don't want people who disagree with it. They're not Irish, they're Northern Irish.
But saying we weren't oppressed is just wrong. The penal laws, the ban on Irish language, literature and customs, and the putting down of several rebellions is oppression. Ireland never asked to join a foreign political entity.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@RichardElden Boring boring boring.
McGuinness might be president down south soon, his successor will be first minister up north, if its a woman they could get married and unite.
Even if he was gay they could get a civil partnership and have their UNION blessed ...A United Ireland through the BACK door ;--)))))
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden Ireland was subjugated, her people almost brought to genocide, oppressed for 800 years. Her fourth green field yet to be liberated, but that is only a matter of time, as England secedes and casts off her welfare sucking toadies to the west, north and northwest. The Irish can have their green field back, the sooner the better. Maybe you can go and get Argentinian citizenship ?
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden The Irish were screwed left right and centre by their forced union with England and Scotland. They were used as cannon fodder, lost their language, their economy was forced to artificially serve Britain's interests and were left to starve during and after their famine. YOU might whitewash their factual history but THEY don't forget. The Malvinas' oil around the Malvinas Islands should and will eventually be paying taxation to the legitimate sovereign of the area, Argentina.
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden Englishmen built the empire. The capital of the empire was/is in England. The economic/political/social centre was/is London. Tell me, who signs International treaties for your lump of rotten worthless wet sod of earth ? England ......
Las Islas Malvinas is another worthless lump of earth.
GAELMIC 3 months ago
fs the amount of wannabe political commentators here is ridiculous, none of what any of you will say here matters, so stop acting as you people are the greatest political minds in the world.
MrJoviun 3 months ago
@RichardElden
Ireland would vote in a socialist government before they'd apply to rejoin the Commonwealth. Republics aren't perfect, but something leads me to believe countries are better when they're not being oppressed.
OldElPasta 3 months ago
@OldElPasta
Eh, you don't have to adopt oul' Queenie as Head of State to be in the Commonwealth! The Republic of South Africa, REjoined after being expelled during the Apartheid era. Mr. Mandela himself wanted RSA to return to the Commonwealth in fact. I think many South Africans, would take issue with your claim that being in the Commonwealth = Being oppressed, something Mandela might know a wee bit about I'd think!!
Our leaving the Commonwealth was all to do with Dev & his isolationism.
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@OldElPasta
P.S. During the worst days of Apartheid, it was a Commonwealth city that changed the name of 1 of it's streets to "Nelson Mandela Place".
That may not sound like much, until I tell you, that it happened to be the street on which the Apartheid Era South African Consulate stood LOL!! So all the Apartheid SA officials, had to quote "19 Nelson Mandela Place" as their official address, while their government held him in prison!
Feckin' Priceless!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden I am glad you are concerned about the welfare payments that England is having to make, the sooner the English taxpayer stops subsidising NI welfare junkies the better. De Valera was right about the North, only take it on his terms. I hear the Malvinas are looking for more settlers ......
O flower of Scotland
When will we see your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
GAELMIC 3 months ago
Scotland will do just fine as an independent country. Its people and natural resources will see it through, the business acumen of scottish citizens will see it fine as part of the wider European Union.
Nor'n Irelan' is already being subsumed into the rest of the country and within 15-20 years the politics of change will transfer political power to Dublin. You'll get used to having the jackeens telling you what to do. Who knows the President may even come from --oh she already does...Tick tock
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden English taxpayers (corporate and personal) are just fed up with subsidising spongers in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. At least the Irish are willing to pay back the loans made to them. The sooner the subsidisation ends the better and the sooner Scotland kicks off on her own the better too.
If the people of the south want the north after that they are welcome to it. There is NO strategic interest in the holding onto the north. The sooner it goes, the better if you ask me.
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@GAELMIC we are not a people to be bought or sold by some english piece of shite such as yourself, go stick your ugly toothtles gob on the jk show or go and burn down london, Manchester and Liverpool as your type has done in the past. But do not come crying for an Ulsterman or its police to bail you scum out again.
Flamorgan 3 months ago
@Flamorgan Give me the £4 BILLION the English Taxpayer pays every year and the equivalent has paid for the last 20 years and it would make lots of lives in England far more comfortable. "Ulstermen" are great at sponging, and are experts at dressing up their needs, big motorbikes, big farms, welfare this welfare that. ENOUGH I SAY.
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden A loan not a bailout, just like Greece. Just like the UK received from the USA during WW2, and the UK only paid off about 3-4 years ago (it took 60 years....). Polls as you well know are meaningless, political change is all about timing. But hey, how are all of these Londonbelfasters going to vote in Belfast when they are all living in the Northern England ? Shana Tova on this beautiful Rosh Hashanah.
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@RichardElden Well, with friends like them what good would their promises be ? What good was it to the Polish people, to the Jewish people ? The camps were NEVER bombed. The myth is that Churchill and his cronies were fighting fascism, he was fighting to hold onto the British Empire, it was the americans who liberated the western countries and the Soviets (....communist fascists) who liberated the eastern countries from Nazism.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@RichardElden Only the banks are bankrupt. And who did we inherit them from ? The British.........
The Northern economy is a a joke, it has being on welfare since the 1600s. Even now it can't survive without massive English taxpayers' money. It would be better to move 75% of the population over to Northern England and feed them there , where it would be cheaper and more efficient. they could call the new artificial city Londonbelfast ?? Not a bad idea huh ? That would keep everybody happy.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
You are an historical ignoramus! The North has been the ONLY part of the island to ever develop significant industry FFS! And prior to the Plantation, there were NO towns, never mind cities in Ulster! The city of Belfast, like it or not, was BUILT by the immigrant, industrious Proddy Scots.
NI, & indeed Ulster, owe everything they are, both good & ill, to the Planters, and if you knew any Ulster history, you'd be aware of that!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 'You are an historical ignoramus!' Oh the irony of it.
You thought the Blitz ended in October 1940 until I told you otherwise. You even based an entire thesis on why a belligerent Eire wouldn't have been bombed during the Blitz based on it, and never modified it when I corrected the date.
You then accused me not making a 'cogent argument' when I contradicted you, indicating other problems you have with the English language.
Is there no beginning to your knowledge?
jratt2 4 months ago
@jratt2
You're a Liar & a plagiarist! That you're reduced to copying my lines & "patter" is flattering, but try coming up with your own!
"you even based an entire thesis on why a belligerent Eire wouldn't have been bombed during the Blitz" Total bullshit! I made a DIRECT ANALOGY on why ANY bombing Eire would have received, would have been comparable, but less, to Scotland's treatment by the Luftwaffe. Less because we're further away & had fewer industrial targets, other than BELFAST!
Remember?
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 You are quite correct about your the analogy, it seemed to go along those lines indeed. Please accept my sincerest contrafibularities.
But you are still an 'historical ignoramus:' you didn't know when the blitz continued after October 1940, and because you still think Belfast was bombed for its industrial targets, apparently this was relevant because it was something Eire had less of.
And we were further away (?). Further away from what/where Raymie? London? Berlin?
jratt2 3 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Get an education pal. In the 1700s human habitation throughout western europe was agrarian in the main, with a town of 30,000 considered big, you clown. Selectively representing historical data only discloses your specious diatribe. The South is growing, bigger, more populous and more influential. The North is greening and coalescing with the South again. Tick tock, tick tock, Devalera's vision will yet come to pass. Devalera condemned the Nazis, never the allies. UP DEV !!
GAELMIC 3 months ago
@GAELMIC
You moron, are a fuckin' LIAR! Dev NEVER, in his petty existence, condemned the Nazis, nor even ADMITTED the Horrors of the Holocaust! He was in modern terms, a "Holocaust Denier"!
The Allies in Ulster however, he happily condemned, as "An army of occupation", the hypocritical prick!
Here: "There is no evidence that Prime Minister Eamon de Valera uttered any condemnation of German atrocities."
I've forgotten more about the Ulster history than your puny excuse for a brain could hold!
DonegalRaymie201 3 months ago
@RichardElden Churchill never overran Iceland. The Icelandics invited the Americans in and used the lull of the second world war to undo the Danish Crown colonial administration. If Churchill's warmongerers had come back again to Ireland he would have found them far less welcoming the second time round and every Irishman and Irishwoman would have been a potential assassin for the rest of his life. He knew, despite the rhetoric, that Dev had right on his side about his Nation's interests.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@RichardElden Devalera condemned the invasion of Poland, Holland and Belgium. He didn't have long range bombers - Why did not the Allies bomb the railway lines to the camps despite knowing about them from 1942 until 1945. Not one was bombed, millions of Jewish people could have survived if those camps had been put out of action ??? This was as much a War Crime because they could have acted and NEVER DID. Churchill never ordered their bombing when he could have.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
Churchill's war with Germany was n imperial war in 1939, a continuation of the failed policies after World War 1, which was in its turn a war between the old empires and a rising empire, Germany. Ireland/Éire/TheFreeState chose democratically to avoid being party to another warmongers' head to head. The commonwealth in the 1940s was nothing more than English colonial regimes doing their master's bidding. De Valera showed that the Irish were no longer British !
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
"De Valera showed that the Irish were no longer British !" Yeah, by refusing to join the Democratic ALLIES in opposing Fascism you mean???
The man was a consumate Hypocrite, time & again, whereas you're just retarded!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Very interesting revisionist History there. England (Churchill et al) denied Ireland's elected representatives in 1919. Jailed India's, the Jewel in the Crown, their democratic representation, they set Poland adrift to Stalin's clutches. They NEVER bombed the Nazi death camps despite being aware of them for a whole two years. Hurling personal insults at me belittles you.
It is the right of every sovereign country to decide when to enter into war. Ireland suffered enough.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
Shitforbrains, how on Earth, would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there??? Go on, explain the basic logic underlying that conclusion?
They bombed the railway lines, that led to them, and they defeated the insane Third Reich! What did Dev do???
He couldn't even sum up the decency & courage to condemn the Nazis. EVER! Your "hero", not mine!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 According to the World Jewish Congress bombing Auschwitz would have stopped its use as a death camp. Many surviving Jews said they could not understand why it was not bombed, it would have ended their suffering and prevented others from suffering also. According to the Allies, bombing Auschwitz was a wast of resources needed elsewhere. In fact it was decided at the Bermuda Conference that the Allies should not relieve the Germans of their responsibility to the Jews.
jratt2 4 months ago
@jratt2
Christ sake, HOW "would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there??? Go on, explain the basic logic underlying that conclusion?"
The Allies did at least liberate them, what did Dev do, remind me??? Have tea with Hempel and ask after the Fuhrer health?
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 'HOW "would bombing the Nazi Death Camps, have helped save the inmates there???'
Who said anything about saving those in the camp? Thats right, Jewish advocate groups knew they could not be saved, but if the means of genocide could be halted then it was worth it. Shocking isn't it.
Pity Jewish Advocate Groups were banned from attending the Bermuda Conference though. It reduces the ending of the holocaust to a mere happy accident at the end of the war. Hindsight is 20/20
jratt2 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 'The Allies did at least liberate them, what did Dev do, remind me??? Have tea with Hempel and ask after the Fuhrer health?'
How vulgar: 'The Allies did at least liberate them', only highlights the poverty of your argument that the war against Hitler was a moral war. It was not. It never was. To say so is an inappropriate use of hindsight.
I have no idea why Dev visited Hempel, I'm certainly not going to defend it.
jratt2 4 months ago
@jratt2
Yeah well, there's plenty about Dev's WW2 behaviour you've been comprehensively unable to defend before, so nothing new there.
As to "Allies did at least liberate them', only highlights the poverty of your argument that the war against Hitler was a moral war"? Explain the logic of that conclusion then?
The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Raymie, it is the height of 'Biblical Hypocrisy' for an imperial power to claim it was fighting a war over Nazi racism. The war was fought to stifle German hegemony in Europe, just like WW1. It was a war of National Interest, nothing to do with German 'morals' as blatantly indicated by the Bermuda Conference. All behaved in their own national interest between 1939-45.
Why do you think you would recognise a comprehensive defence of an argument Raymie?
jratt2 4 months ago
@jratt2
Who the fuck claimed that? It's DEV's "Biblical Hypocrisy" that I've highlighted here, which you have been utterly unable to counter in any way, so now you are pathetically reduced to attempting to digress & obfuscate!
Just answer the bloody point!
"The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!"
Well, did he???? Show me some evidence then!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
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@DonegalRaymie201 "The Allies fought to halt Hitler imposing his "Vision" of a European, Ethnically Pure, Fascist Superstate, something Dev must have been fine with, as he never saw fit to condemn it!"
To which I replied:
'it is the height of 'Biblical Hypocrisy' for an imperial power to claim it was fighting a war over Nazi racism'.
You dispute this?
jratt2 3 months ago
And "Many surviving Jews said they could not understand why it was not bombed"?? Because then, there would not have been jewish survivors for the Allies to liberate!
The Allies targeted the rail lines, the Nazi infrastructure etc, not the bloody innocent prisoners! Makes perfect sense.
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 You just don't get it. DeValera was a politician steering his ship of state out of the British Empire, surrounded by imperialist interests all over Europe. Anglophiles have an incredible amnesia about the atrocious consequences for their colonised nations while they take the moral high ground because the Nazis have turned out to have been so bad. The allies introduced carpet bombing, the allies dropped the only nuclear bombs in history. It can be explained but THEY still did it
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@RichardElden Ahhh, the British Commonwealth of Nations, that old 'free' association of countries that were required to pander to England's needs and to be sacrificed by Mr. Churchill if it meant the survival of Royalist England and English Royal culture. They could give up their life's blood to defend a class ridden closed society. Thank God that America took over after the Second World War and Grassroots Democracy has become the norm.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
Yawn! Your ignorance is stunning. Eire was still in the Commonwealth during WW2, and was in fact the ONLY Commonwealth Nation to remain Neutral to Nazism!
EVERY Commonwealth Nation, made their own choice to fight or not, and they all, bar Eire, chose to oppose Nazism, while Dev parked his arse on the fence! And like it or not, Canada, Aus, NZ, SA etc all STILL remain in the Commonwealth, because they choose to.
And BTW, Brit' treatment of the Black GIs caused the Civil Rights movement
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Of course the Free State was still in the commonwealth in the 1940s, but DeValera was showing that Ireland/Éire would follow its own democratic path. With hindsightful revisionism you ignore that the European war was just a continuation of the first world war. DeValera also opposed Nazism but chose not to follow the warmonger's path. The Civil Rights movement dates back to the Civil War, d'uh. Everything centres around the Brits ??? Move on.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
You know FA! Nobody, but Hitler was spoiling for War in the 1930's, it was a War he was determined to have as part of his Masterplan! And it wasn't a European War, but a World one, hence the name WW2, get it?
"DeValera also opposed Nazism"?? Really, then why did he NEVER in his Lifetime even condemn the Nazis? The prick went his grave never even having admitted the horrors of the Holocaust either ya moron!
As to the US Civil Rights movement, it sprung out of WW2! Go read a book!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 The second world war only became so named because of the war in the Pacific. Hitler didn't fight there. Hitler threatened war in the 1930s and kept his promise. The British have fought wars in every generation from the 1300s on and interfered in other people's affairs from Ireland to India, to America, to Malaysia to Oman, from Argentina to even threatening the Icelandics for their fish. Read about the US Civil War and Lincoln decisions in 1863-1864, and then come back to me.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@GAELMIC
Bullshit! It was ALWAYS WW2, well before the Yanks finally joined in, BECAUSE there were belligerent Nations from EVERY Continent, RIGHT from the Start!
"British have fought wars in every generation from the 1300s on"?? Eh???
Are you Special Needs too? There WAS no British anything before 1707 moron!
And US Civil War, was over SLAVERY, not fuckin' "Civil Rights" or Universal Suffrage, ya eejit! In any case Wilberforce long predates Lincoln on that too!
DonegalRaymie201 4 months ago
Churchill was a War Criminal. He was lucky that he had the RAF and the Americans. Otherwise England would be Englant.........
GAELMIC 4 months ago
@RichardElden said the village idiot.
jratt2 4 months ago
@RichardElden WANKER!!!
RichardEIden 4 months ago
de valera was an asshole and a coward! he didn't bother to fight in the war as he was a Nazi sympathizer and a tool of the church! i hope he burns in hell for forever!
33guyfawkes 4 months ago
@33guyfawkes A coward? Is your knowledge of history that bad? Eire is a democracy, De Valera couldn't take the country into the war even he wanted to, he would have had no support! If providing aid to the British right through the war makes him a Nazi sympathiser then you must be an idiot.
jratt2 4 months ago
@33guyfawkes De Valera was a HERO and a STATESMAN. He was also a great politician.
GAELMIC 4 months ago
well said
ceinod123 5 months ago
wish the people who come in here to make comments could do it in a mature fashion instead of using words that really have no value at all. Try using words the teachers taught you in school.
irishlassy100 5 months ago
wish the people who come in here to make comments could do it in a mature fashion instead of using words that really have no value at all. Try using words they gave you in school .
irishlassy100 5 months ago
@RichardElden How crude, but no actually that is wholly incorrect and inaccurate.
A Republic is a very fair system, any child in a Republic can dream of one day becoming President and head of state. That is not case in the UK..
The current US President was born with a mum on food stamps, the current UK monarch was born with her mother on postage stamps. PS. any more gutter language from you, i presume thats where your're from and I will have to delete your posts.
mrdrawde 5 months ago
@RichardElden Yes that correct but you know I already know that. I was referring to the uk head of state but you knew what I meant, I'm sure..
mrdrawde 5 months ago
@RichardElden Really? well I hope your children get elected to the highest office in the land then..
mrdrawde 5 months ago
Some of the opinions and language on thispage surely indicate that a few did not listen to the intelligent words of De Valera.
kevingreenan 5 months ago
@RichardElden .....thats fucked up.
HLecterPHD 6 months ago
@RichardElden
are you saying you wouldnt bow before the queen?
HLecterPHD 6 months ago
@RichardElden
Imf uk 1976.
As for being a slave.....nobody REIGNS... over me. Im nobody's SUBJECT.
Go bow before your master ...serf.
HLecterPHD 6 months ago
@RichardElden
Read a book Dick and grow up Dick! You're feckin' clueless!
DonegalRaymie201 6 months ago
@RichardElden
Belfast endured one, single long night of the Blitz! London had it nightly for years!
So I take it you didn't know that more Irishmen served in the Brit army in WW2, than your "brave Loyalists" did? Or that NI was the ONLY part of the UK that did NOT have conscription???
Churchill didn't retake the Treaty ports, but he would have done if he needed to. The USA's entry into WW2 made that unnecessary.
I've said already that Eire should have allowed the Allies use of the Ports.
DonegalRaymie201 6 months ago
@RichardElden
Yes well Churchill was possessed of a brain unlike you, & could ill afford to waste precious resources on reoccupying the Free State! It would also have meant an end to Irish volunteers in the Brit army, if not their outright desertion!!!
You did know that the South contributed more men in WW2, than you Loyalists in the North didn't you???
Are you Special Needs or something Dick?
DonegalRaymie201 6 months ago 7
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@RichardElden
"I'm so glad about Lockerbie.
RichardElden 16 hours ago "
WTF??? You're so glad that your fellow Brits in Southern Scotland were killed by Terrorist bombing???
Go fuck yourself, ya braindead wee c*nt! Even your fellow Orangemen, would kick 7bells of shite out of ye for that comment, ya retarded prick!
You're an embarassment to your OWN side FFS!
DonegalRaymie201 6 months ago 6
@RichardElden
As I said- well to put it mildly, thankully you weren't Churchill because you would have lost the battle of Britain if you did invade Éire, putting the supply of war materiel from the USA in jeopardy, wasting RAF resources etc, Pat Finucane would have deserted along with many other ighter aces...no way of getting around that. And your Fuhrer Craig doesn't deserve the title of Prime Minister as he was elected by a rigged or gerrymandered electorate, but that's for another day.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
Go Dev Yurt!!
ganderman1000 7 months ago
@RichardElden
You don't believe the authoritive source? ok...stick your head in the sand then.
As for your delusions of grandeur and your desire to commit mass genocide..well to put it mildly, thank god that you weren't Churchill because you would have lost the battle of Britain if you did invade Éire, wasting RAF resources etc. Pat Finucane would have deserted along with many others. and Dresden was reduced to a cinder not rubble. The black and Tans didn't exist in 1940 either. Sigh.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@marmaladekamikaze
What "authoritive source [sic]"? Sticking "Australian Navy" next to a post does ZERO credibilty give!
We KNOW that Hitler's plans didn't turn to USSR until June 1941, it's in every fuckin' WW2 History text, that you so obviously have never bothered to read!
So I'll ask again, when did the Luftwaffe blitz Belfast, Liverpool & Clydeside???
You know Zero!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Are you trolling? You didn't understand what I was saying at all, I'll try again. You maintain that because Britain and NI was being bombed it meant Hitler was trying to invade. this is incorrect. I posed to you a question akin to this- was Hitler trying to invade on March 8 1945 when a V2 landed on Farringdon killing 110? obviously No he wasn't. Operation Sealion, the invasion of Britain was postponed indefinitely on Oct 12 or Sept 17 1940 -''David Shears, "Hitler’s D-Day"'
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
As for your ''Hitler's plans didn't turn to USSR until June 1941'' ...WRONG, firstly, That was the month in which the invasion commenced, it is not however when Hitler's plans began. Patrick Shrier- ''The German War against Russia was almost preordained, as early as 1937 Hitler was planning on going to war against the Russians in order to gain "Lebensraum" or living space. ''Planning for Operation Barbarossa begin with the Fuehrer Directive #21 on 18 December 1940.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@RichardElden
I don't know where you are getting that date from, ''The operation was cancelled on 12 October 1940 when Hitler’s priority shifted to Operation BARBAROSSA and the invasion of the Soviet Union'' - Source the Australian Navy. Secondly it would have been easier for the British Navy to just occupy the ports and defend them, an invasion of Éire would have been disastrous-all bridges ports and harbors were to be demolished upon invasion by either Nazi or British.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@RichardElden
Churchill wouldn't have been able to overrun Ireland, do you know how many LDF soldiers there were here? It would have been a terribly costly invasion that Churchill knew would be utterly useless, if the Nazi's weren't going to invade here that is. Hitler abandoned his plans to Invade Both Ireland and Britain on the 12th of Oct 1940, he instead began focusing his attention East, that's what saved both of our countries.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@marmaladekamikaze
"Hitler abandoned his plans to Invade Both Ireland and Britain on the 12th of Oct 1940"??? WTF??
The Blitz of Belfast, Liverpool, Clydeside was when?
You know FA pal. Operation Barbarossa didn't start until June 1941 for starters!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Yes apparently Hitler did abandon the Invasion of Britain and Ireland on the 12th of Oct 1940, see my reply to RichardElden for my source on that information. and hahaah The Blitz and an invasion are not mutually inclusive. Just think about it, Was Hitler trying to Invade Britain in 1944 & 45 when V-1 & V2 missiles were landing? the answer of course is no. The Blitz only really began when the RAF bombed Civilian Berlin, it was revenge, hence the names for the V/A weapons.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@marmaladekamikaze
Apparently nothing!! You're clueless! The Blitz and the Battle of Britain, were AFTER your supposed Oct '40 date FFS!
Hitler only turned his attention Eastwards when Goering had failed to secure the Air superiority the Nazis needed for OperationsSealion & Green!
The V1s & V2s were the dying embers from a defeated Third Reich, attacking the only enemy they could reach. You know FA!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Incorrect, The battle of Britain ened in October 1940, the Blitz however is not the Battle of Britain, the Blitz can be described as a tit for tat bombing campaign against civilian targets. The V1 & V2's hit both Holland and France, I was using them as an example that just because someone is bombing you doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to invade, they may however have other desires like causing you to pull out of the War etc. or indeed perhaps just pure 'Vengeance'.
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@marmaladekamikaze
The BoB BECAME the Blitz, as Hitler switched tactics:
"Instead he opted to try to crush British morale, while maintaining the threat of invasion. Hitler concluded this might result in "eight million going mad" (referring to the population of London in 1940), which would "cause a catastrophe" for the British. In those circumstances, Hitler said, "even a small invasion might go a long way". At this point Hitler was against cancelling the invasion."
Enjoy!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201
Your Quote is dated Sept 14th, I will glady make you aware again that by Oct 12 1940 the Planned invasion was postponed indefinitely. You are again helping me make my point, thanks! It is of note that the Blitz was a blunder, if the Luftwaffe had continued the attacks on the Dowding system and airfields, most historians believe that the RAF would have been destroyed, The London bombing 24 Aug 1940, was the turning point of the BoB. ''The Blitz saved Britain'' look it up!
marmaladekamikaze 7 months ago
@marmaladekamikaze
Utter Bull! Hitler POSTPONED the Invasion in October '40 until Spring '41, because he had missed his weather window in 1940, but he continued & indeed intensified his bombing of the UK until June of '41; softening up his enemy in advance of his planned invasion: "even a small invasion might go a long way"!
Point is, he did NOT abandon his invasion plans in '41, but by his own words, hoped to invade in Spring '41!!
The Luftwaffe had suffered more losses than RAF in BoB too!
DonegalRaymie201 6 months ago
Richard are u simple? Irelands Greatest heros are Collin Dev O'Neill Sarsfield Tone and Connolly not Kitchener or any Brits
ganderman1000 7 months ago
@ganderman1000
Dev a hero??? Are you feckin' jokin? The man was the worst thing that ever happened to Ireland: he was a backwards looking pedant, who ruined the economy, isolated the Nation, and but the rotteness of the RC church into every corner of Government. And we've been paying for that ever since!
Anyway, he was a Yank, and Jim Connolly was a Scot, but otherwise, Dev is unworthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as a man like Connolly, who actually HAD Principles!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@RichardElden im sorry but a brit cant talk about being a slave to someone, the english are the americans bitch, collins signed it because he got nervous they were all false threats Dev sent collins in because he knew he wouldnt get independence and this would turn the irish public against collins
joemoin 7 months ago
@RichardElden in what world were the IRA terrorists? they were freedom fighters the IRA around now just use that as a name, lol the mighty british army could put down a tiny rebel uprising says it all doesnt it lol so once again thats a lie
joemoin 7 months ago
@RichardElden well when you look at it that way the nazis couldnt beat the british but the ira beat the english need i remind you that when the ira ran the best the english had the ira were untrained unorganised and outnumbered
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
Brainless, the Brits never even sent in their army in 1919-21! Collins was only up against the RIC/Black & Tans, yet he signed the Treaty because he knew he couldn't last another week, (according to his own words!)
And your heros, the IRA crawled into bed with the Nazis in WW2, and tried to sign up as a Division of the Waffen SS!! IRA leader Sean Russell DIED on board a U-Boat, returning from Germany FFS!!
Is there any beginning to your knowledge?
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago 4
@DonegalRaymie201 oh god i have to wipe the floor with this guy again, auxilleries were british army genius they were sent in against the ira, and fair enough the enemy of our enemy is our temporary friend now go bother someone else you knob end
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
Utter Bull! The black & tans were the POLICE auxilliaries, ya brainless twat!! There was NEVER a Regiment in the Brit army by that name then or now!
Now go Goosestep around your bedroom & pine for your Fuhrer, ya retarded Nazi!
(The ULTIMATE insult is that Himmler didn't even want the IRA in his SS, because he described them as "Disorganized and shambolic") Ha fuckin' Ha Moron! The only thing worse than being a Nazi??? Being a Nazi reject!!!
Priceless...
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 im clearly not a nazi genius but lets go ahead and say your wrong as usual ok?
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
You're a Nazi apologist, which is worse! You don't get that Russell & IRA had climbed into bed with the Third Reich, while NI, Scotland, Wales & 60,000 DECENT Irishmen were fighting and dying to stop the c*nts! And all the while Hitler was planning to invade & occupy Eire anyway!!!
Wrong about what Joe?? Operation Green? The Black & Tans being RIC auxiliaries? Sean Russell dying on board a Nazi U-Boat? Germany sharing a border with France? etc etc Do tell!!
Ha fuckin' Ha Moron!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 actually your wrong about the auxillaries, and you do realise its common knowledge that germany borders with france you absoloute tool, you dont even know what your talkin about
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
You're the brainless prick that claimed: "he invaded holland and belgium in order to get to france!" Caught out by your own moronic words; Read it & weep arsepiece! And the Black & Tans were NEVER part of the Brit Army, Fuckwit!
Try reading a book or something, you complete diddy!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 they did but i never said they never bordered did i? and the black and tans were sent over to ireland after WW1 in many ways they were the rejects of the war and the brits dumped them in ireland
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
Exactly as above, ya intellect vacuum! You DON'T need to invade Holland & Belgium to get to France from Germany brainless, and as I said, the Brit Army, were NEVER deployed in Ireland, during 1919-21 War!!!
What part of this does your tiny wee mind fail to grasp cretin???
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 ugh do i really have to explain this again? hitler used this as means of a diversion, the maginot line was the only part of france defended so why not invade holland and belgium 1st to distract the french and then charge in after it, and the brit army was involved maybe not directly involved but involved nonetheless
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
Fuckwit, already told you: "Hitler invaded thru' the Ardennes forest to get to Paris, thus breaching the "Maginot Line"!" You're feckin' clueless!
And, you claimed: "auxilleries were british army genius they were sent in against the ira"!
As well as illiterate, you're UTTERLY wrong and a fuckin' Liar too! They were, as I SAID: "black & tans were the POLICE auxiliaries"!!!
Why do you think they were nicknamed "Black & Tans" ya brainless twat???
Stick to the Diddy Leagues retard!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@DonegalRaymie201 and im agreeing with you he did invade throught the ardennes forest after he invaded holland and belgium, black and tans were rejects from the war completely differant from the auxillaries
joemoin 7 months ago
@joemoin
Wrong again Fuckwit, but keep squirming!
Once more, JoeMoron claimed: "auxilleries were british army genius.."!
But, behold:
"The Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary (ADRIC), generally known as the Auxiliaries or Auxies, was a paramilitary organization within the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) during the Irish War of Independence."
And:
"the term Black and Tans is sometimes used to refer to the RIC Auxiliary Division.[1]"
Wrong on every count AGAIN, retard!!!
DonegalRaymie201 7 months ago
@RichardElden thats a lie
joemoin 7 months ago
@RichardElden thats a lie
joemoin 7 months ago