The Real Cost of Climate Change

[maricelapat01]

we have to be aware of this thing

[co2isgoodal]

How many schoolchildren got blown up in the name of the global warming hoax?

31,000 scientists say that AGW is a lie!

[bernzeppi]

baconified,

Those dodgy temp stations were excluded from the final results (NOAA)

Furthermore, most temperature increase was observed over open ocean and the poles (WMO)

Nope, there are no cities out there (World Map)

They were confirmed by satellite measurements (NASA)

Nope, no cities up there either (Look out your window)

If you remove the US data altogether things look even worse (WMO)

'The mid US did show slight local cooling, but the rest of the world heated up'

Bliss

[baconified]

Hegelian dialectic has you!

Clueless.

[bernzeppi]

Your a waste of time...

I present data and sources and you name call

Hah!

[baconified]

Your'e the one guilty of ad hominems my friend.

You still can't accept that the holocene maximum involved co2 levels much higher than today. Noaa's tropospheric data does not support agw as the levels of temp increase are not in line with expectations. The oceans create an order of magnitude higher amounts of co2 than our entire output. That is before you include dying vegetation, volcanoes, geysers, el nino, etc. your slagging my views is infantile.

[bernzeppi]

That flawed satellite data was corrected in 2005 (NASA)

The ocean is a carbon sink not a source, but it gives off some of that CO2 when it heats up, positive feedback

Man made CO2 is 130 times that of all the volcanoes on earth (NOAA)

search 'CO2 volcano NOAA'

Prior to industry CO2 was stable @ 280ppm

We've made it go up to 390ppm...

up by nearly 30% above what 'dying vegetation, volcanoes, geysers, el nino, etc' was doing on its own

The planet has been warming for the past 70 years (WMO)

[baconified]

The planet has been cooling for the last 15 years. You have shown no account for the oceans temperature memory or the lack of tropospheric heating. A very myopic view makes it easy for you to draw your conclusions. I think it's you who watches FOX perhaps because it's not me. Keep quoting the IPCC's 2500 quasicontributors.

[bernzeppi]

Well, no

This decade has been the hottest since measurements have been made

the 90's was second hottest

80's third hottest

and so on for 70 years (WMO)

Where's your data?

And where is it from?

[bernzeppi]

Oh, and those temperatures?

Mostly High-proof measurements

" tolerance for uncertainty is lower; they seek high levels of empirical confirmation before accepting model results" (GCS uncertainty and politics)... (yes i read it)

Backed up by proxy measurements such as satellite data

Also, I think calling 2500 scientists to IPCC 'quasicontributors' is a bit rich... you sure that is not projection?

Your a political science/philosophy guy... a quasi-scientist

[bernzeppi]

Oh on the great climate swindle... it's a great resource

watch?v=boj9ccV9htk&feature=ch­annel

the swindle is a 'swindle'

[jonforris]

Baconified is right, its all brainwashing and these people who say otherwise dont have the first clue what they are talking about. IPCC 4th report has been shot to hell as has Gores lies. 56% of Americans have woen up to the bull, are they all wrong too. What a joke.

[oceanforestlife]

You're a joke, what is it going to take to get people to realize they need to step up and be responsible! Do you guys do any research at all? Every single scientist I've talked too agrees that it's true.

[bernzeppi]

Forget Gore... he's not a scientist

watch?v=52KLGqDSAjo&feature=re­lated

and, about those hacked emails

watch?v=7nnVQ2fROOg&feature=ch­annel

and

watch?v=uXesBhYwdRo&feature=ch­annel

Research shows 78.5% of statistics are just made up

[baconified]

Statistical research shows that 78.6% is made up, your'e way off @:)

[bernzeppi]

I stand coreccted

[bernzeppi]

56% of Americans... there's the brains trust gone

What'll we do now?!!?

[baconified]

I suppose ultimately i'm more concerned about how our beloved leaders and the Rockefellers and Rothschilds who steer them through their influence will use this crisis, either real or imaginary, to develop their long term strategic goals for dominance and hegemony throughout the world. Bush said No Way to Kyoto and now the Obama, Brzezinski, Summers, Geithner, Mo & Curly crew are doing the right thing? Something ain't right.

If you haven't seen it already, you will enjoy: The Money Masters.

[bernzeppi]

Totally Totally agree...

I would join the secret army to fuck those assholes right up

I think the crisis is real, but those bastards are going to make a profit out of us anyhow

Why we argue amongst ourselves, they laugh their tits off, collecting on carbon, meanwhile ready to be green, they've stitched it both ways

That's why I want to get the science behind us now (stop doubting) and get on with fighting the real enemy the old guard!

New players please

[baconified]

For starters watch: The manmade global warming hoax. 31,000 scientists and climatologists in the US signed a petition against anthropogenic climate change. Co2 does not lead temperature, rather it is the other way round. There are dozens of peer reviewed scientific papers confirming this, eg: Global Climate Science, Uncertainty and Politics. For your own sake do some research into this, don't rely on bitesize pieces of information to form your opinion and that includes this.

Wake up people.

[Zoofle]

No, YOU wake up.

[baconified]

LOL.Did you watch the videos or do ANY research to question the thin veil of ignorance that has chrystalised into your own identity that blinds you to the reality around you. Hegelian dialectic has you! You have been fooled because you are another one of these slack jawed morons who never question the general concensus and derive a cathartic pleasure in deriding that which you don't have the mental capacity to understand. A classic case of double think blinkering your existence. Watch the videos

[Zoofle]

wow someone has some steam to get out!!! Same to you, jerk. enjoy your bacon.

[baconified]

Well, a 30 second soundbyte quoting the likes of Paul Volker is probably enough to cement your view on the subject. You will probably never question your views, true knowledge is knowing you know nothing, to be able to examine ones position objectively. You think Carbon Dioxide levels leads Temperature or that the IPCC is the last word on AGW. That really is sad. Enjoy your life. BYE.

[Zoofle]

YOU will never question your views. you're wrong. Face the facts, don't run away from them. I wish human caused climate change wasn't real, but it is, and i'm doing what i can to stop it no matter what you say. Have a nice life in denial.

[baconified]

LOL. Drink your coolaid. What exactly is your scientific basis to believe AGW? Al Gore? Everyone i know has woken up to this bullshit, you are a laughing stock, backing up a political lie and you don't even know it! Did you look at the evidence? Of course not. Do you own silver or gold? Of course not. I feel sorry for you. I have looked into both arguments at lenght and i know what i am talking about, you haven't stepped outside of your box and you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[Zoofle]

You sure have some anger issues, don't take it out on me. I have looked at both sides, and my side is better (duh). A mass of ice the size of Texas has melted in the arctic, animals are changing habits, carbon dioxide has increased 100 ppm in the atmoshpere, rivers are drying up, and so much more. Besides, it doesn't even matter whether we know we're causing it or not, we still need to take precautions. I feel sorry that you are sitting there doing nothing while all these things going on!!

[baconified]

You can rate these pieces negatively all you want, if you think that a global carbon tax traded in a speculative derivatives market by the ECB, Fed, etc will solve the problem then you haven't addressed the real issue i'm afraid. Do you know what the holocene and medievil warm period maximum co2 levels were? Do you know the impact this has on the scientific basis of your agw argument. Didn't think so. PS: icebergs clogged up all major european ports not so long ago, its because of the sun cycle.

[Zoofle]

yeah yeah you know shut up and leave me alone i'm tired of talking to you.

[baconified]

"Shut up".

LOL, a typically ignorant response from an intellectually incapable dupe.

Obviously the thought of using your

critical thinking is tiring your brain out. Hegelian dialectic wins the day.

Run for the hills, the GW boogie monster is coming. Thanks for entertaining me and all my friends with your thrilling insights. Still, hope you wake up. No hard feeling here.

Bye bye.

[oceanforestlife]

do you realize you just called an innocent 17 year old girl a dupe? What is wrong with you! Zoofle is awesome! She is going to make a bigger difference than you ever will!

[baconified]

Again, ignorance is bliss. How can you be oblivious to the politically contrived spin that is AGW? For Gods sake, a recent poll indicated that 56% of Americans no longer believe AGW. Did you know that the temperature ranges used in the IPCC 4th report did not include Russian data? Why not? Because their data did not support the case for AGW. Some US temp stations are in urban areas, ie: Airports, beside air con units, carparks etc giving higher readings than adjacent remote stations they ignore.

[Zoofle]

I simply don't have any more time to waste arguing with someone who obviously isn't going to be "waking up" and start taking responsibility to help the world. I have better things to do, like start my school's recycling program and making a difference.

[baconified]

You must appreciate my position, I'm in my mid thirties, i'm highly intelligent as are my circle of friends and wev'e temporized on this for a decade or so along with many other topics. The political class and their oligarch masters do not have our best interests in mind.

If there was one political commentator i would recommend, that would be Webster Tarpley wcr.

Also,

Gerald Celente

Jim Rogers

and others.

All the best.

[bernzeppi]

Hah!

In your mid 30's you are at the height of arrogance

You think 'hell I must have it together now!'

Well, no

"I'm highly intelligent" you sound like that guy on CI's most stupid criminals

I've followed the debate since 80's, AGW is real

You've not done proper research

Your 'research' consists of conspiracy mantras, big oil edicts, FOXnews, creationists, gun lobbyists, snake oil salesmen, youtube videos by debunked cranks, & your supreme 'intelligence'

Laughable

You took the cool aid

[baconified]

Moron, not worth responding to.

[bernzeppi]

Bigger moron!

Times infinity!

Plus one

[baconified]

Infinity + 1 = infinity.

[bernzeppi]

Not in quantum physics

[baconified]

Even as one approaches the speed of light?

[bernzeppi]

Damn!

Maybe not!

:-D

[INFORMEDIRISH]

Go Baconified, if you think agw is real and you have followed the debate as you say since the 80s then you must know what you are talking about. Enjoy paying your carbon tax so. Problem solved, our leaders will solve it right. You sit on your pedastal and wax lyrical about your illuminated perspective. The sun, the oceans and volcanoes created the holocene maximum. Correct? How much GH gas do the oceans create? How many gigatons do we create? You know the answer. FA. As you say.

Laughable

[bernzeppi]

All this information can be found at NOAA, it is freely available online... just search 'NOAA CO2'

There you will find that about 30% of oceanic CO2 is Anthropogenic

Pre industrial (stable) atmospheric levels were 280ppm, it's now accumulated to 390ppm, up by 110ppm

a simple calculation: 110/380=.28

wow! nearly 30% of the CO2 in the is anthropogenic

It's like putting a small amount of money in the bank every day, it accumulates

Also try NASA, CSIRO, NAS, BOM, jeez there are plenty of places

[bernzeppi]

Go Zoofle!

This baconfeild guy is a right dick

A FOX news watcher LOL!

FOX news merely fires up the red neck middle American merely to make money, business

Rupert Murdoch (owner of FOX) himself now accepts AGW

It is a testimony to his business acumen that he lets the FOX network continue as is, because it makes money (out of suckers)

You'll find many examples of recycling etc within the FOX offices (despite their public image)

If you believe FOXnews you have 'taken the cool aid'

[oceanforestlife]

WTF? cool-aid?

[baconified]

Cool aid: In reference to the Jonestown massacre where followers drank cool aid laced with cyanide on orders from their leader Jim Jones. A few survived, the ones who questioned what he told them & through critical and independant thought broke the programming and saved their lives. It all went Pete Tong very quickly, the pictures of the aftermath are quite surreal.

I do my research.

Watch: The Money Masters especially if you are in the US.

Bye.

[bernzeppi]

Hey dude you just exposed yourself, careful

Your info for the alarmists case comes from Al Gore... he's a politician and a show pony not a scientist

watch?v=52KLGqDSAjo

The science is one thing, politics is another

[baconified]

Peer reviewed scientific paper titled: Climate science. Uncertainty and politics.

Read it and cop on, agw science is a derivative of political agenda.

"Hey dude you just exposed yourself"

?

[bernzeppi]

Ahhh, you see all things a political

I guess actual science ie: temperature measurements and charts a going to be lost on you... eh?

[oceanforestlife]

Haha way to go Zoofle! you tell 'em!

get a life baconified!

[bernzeppi]

Those 31,000 scientists included such luminaries as Dr Geri Halliwell (Ginger Spice), Michael J. Fox, Vets, plumbers and actual scientists who want their name taken off that list

The petition was run like an Afghan election "fill this in and send it on to your friends"

No checks were done

Laughable

mr non-hegelian, tight jawed, gun totin' creationist, school philosophy F minor, max capacity min fill, toilet roll viewed, 3phrases smokin' bacon head...

Oh, I started to use your techniques, sorry

[baconified]

Philosophy F minor, i liked that one.

Strip away the IPCC and all you have is Naomi Klein and Al Gore and poor scientists looking for funding. Pretty much, although i hear the do great luncheons. It does have its appeal i admit. All this arguing won't matter anyway, the politicians will transform this place into the land of FUBAR sooner or later. Eugenics dressed up in a nice blue un emblem.

[bernzeppi]

Wrong again

Strip away the IPCC you have WMO, NOAA, USGS, BOM, NASA, NAS's of 35 industrialized nations, CSIRO, USGS, UNFCCC, WCRP, USCRN, CFCAS, WHOI, TERI, NICCR, CCRI, CIC... it goes on and on

Look, your not even trying

BTW, One of my favorite insults is 'bong shaped reality' but I figure I can't make that one stick to you eh?

[trbbb]

oh bacon is soooo much smarter than well respected experts on climate change haha.

but seriously, if he expects us to listen to his bullshit be better get a PhD and do some hard-hitting research. has he said a thing that hasn't come out of glenn beck's mouth?

[bernzeppi]

He is into political science,

the peer reviewed paper he sites?

"This article appeared in Science as Culture 8:4 (1999), 437-472"

Science as Culture?

ooooh!

Hence he mixes up IPCC a political body (to state the obvious) with the noble scientific research institutions noted above

The paper is a tepid attempt of irrelevant sociologists to insert themselves into the discussion... it's like "I need some attention too!"

mixing the science and politics and coming up with a truly warped waste product

[trbbb]

these guys always talk about carbon taxes and very often talk about vaccinations too. when they start talking about vaccinations you know you're dealing with an incredibly paranoid person.

the great climate swindle has been thoroughly picked apart by REAL experts, holding no evidence against man-made global warming. it's funny how desperate this guy is to bring up social science papers and movies like "the great climate swindle"

[bernzeppi]

My interest was at first casual

But in recent months I've spent some time actually chasing down the papers... it's honed me, making me totally convinced of the reality of AGW

We will be taxed by carbon one way or another

Economists are saying it's cheaper to pay a tax up front than deal with loss of crops, land and water resources which may lead to famine wars and political upheaval

It is true that the old (oil) guard will still manage to float to the top

It's in our interests to change now

[bernzeppi]

Watch this

watch?v=N2B34sO7HPM

'The great global warming swindle' is a hoax and fraudulent

[baconified]

Global Climate Science: Uncertainty & Politics.

Read it. It is definitive as far as a plethora of climatologists, scientists, congressmen, senators, et al, are concerned. But don't take my word for it.

[bernzeppi]

I will

[bernzeppi]

After some "terminological hair-splitting, of interest only to philosophers"

He asserts that High-proof scientists... prioritize observation... the observational data failed to confirm the models... (MSU) satellite data..., show a slight cooling of the troposphere..."

Well that was in 1999, and as we know that satellite data was flawed due to satellite malfunction corrected 2005

Yes the issue is politicized based on profits

but who is going to profit?

Old oil or new tech?

More to come...

[baconified]

It's of fundamental concern that the science is not concrete as one might say. My synopsis would be that between Insolation and its eccentricities, particulates, greenhouse gases and the cyclical amplifications natural and coincidal trend highlighting solar and Co2 relationships over millions of years leave very little room for an accurate prediction of human causality in such a narrow context. Over a 250 year timeframe we are quite temporate currently. And i don't trust Rockefellers U.N.

[baconified]

As you know, Co2 is one of many contributing factors determining weather over long periods. I'm interested in your thoughts on the Maunder minimum, 70 odd years of documented low solar activity c.1680 resulting in a 1.5 degree drop in temp during this time. This has been well documented. There was no resultant drop in Co2 levels thus we can infer that other forces beyond the scope of AGW carbon argument, can have an adverse effect that Climate Science will misdiagnose and that is bad science.

[bernzeppi]

"Both contrarian scientists and Republican politicians argued that a self-interested science establishment enforces the acceptance of false theories"

"heres a big list of scientists that are on my side and you only have a smaller group of scientists on your side (but) those small groups of scientists....are always producing the scientific judgments of the future

Yes politicized and,

"I believe this use of history and social theory is disingenuous"

Yes, I agree

Still AGW erodes our future

[baconified]

Aerosols, sulpher dioxide, et al are far more dangerous than Co2( a fundamental requirement for life on earth) These exotic emissions are at the heart of the problem. Aluminium poisoning from heavy industry into water tables should be a focus for concern. But Co2 is a politicized affront to humanity. It is disingenuous and a contrivance for our leaders to tax carbon when they take the money and create a new futures derivatives market to speculate and make billions on the backs of our future.

[bernzeppi]

"Co2 does not lead temperature, rather it is the other way round"

Strawman!!!

watch?v=hWJeqgG3Tl8&feature=ch­annel

[baconified]

Your ad hominems are wasted on me, you sent me a video previously, another video by the same author confirmed the tiny amount of agw due to Co2, you must only watch the selective bits that suit you. LOL. You contradict your own evidence. I'm done with you, so go pay your carbon tax and get your kiddies their shots. Unless your still single which is a distinct possibility.

[coolhacky]

How can you fail to solve something that isn't existent?

[Zoofle]

When it DOES exist...