Saying “But we don’t want you to compare them in that way” is not a good response. If I said “My mum is my hooker. When I’m feeling stressed I call her up and she comes over and cheers me up” I would be using a bad metaphor. It wouldn’t matter if I insist that you ignore the fact that the hooker uses sex to cheer me up and just focus on the fact that she cheers me up when comparing her to my mum. Regardless of my intentions the metaphor suggests inappropriate sexual acts and that makes it poor.
So you claim that the metaphorical link between the Lord and a shepherd is that, just as the shepherd protects his flock, the Lord protects his followers. I don't see how this avoids the criticisms that it's a poorly chosen metaphor. A shepherd protects his flock for selfish reasons. If the Lord's protection is like that of a shepherd then this suggests selfish motives. A better metaphor would have been a protector who protects out of unconditional love (e.g. a parent).
If you support Mel Gibson even a little, I need your help getting 3 ass hats banned from Youtube. Click my channel and report / thumbs down the 3 videos I have favorited. Thank you.
Who ever made this video has got to be a fucking moron. Dude you make a 15 minute video going on and about how stupid someone is and never see the fact that anyone who believes in any religion is one of the dumbest morons to ever walk the planet. You want to call out someone's intelligence but you believe in a 500 year old drunk that build a cruse liner 100 year old pregnant women and talking snakes? Here is a metaphor ever hear people that live in glass houses should not throw stones?
If the word "God" is interpreted to mean "Reality" then the poem makes a lot of sense. There is no greater protector, and no greater wisdom, than a relationship with Reality.
This is stupid. the interpretation you give is completely the same as the second intepretation thinderfoot gives, the difference is the truths.
You see it as a good thing and thunderfoot sees it as a weak thing. Funny thing is you are both right. The more you depend on someone to look out for you the weaker you become, and the person looking out for you is being good.
The problem is you accuse thunderfoot of outright lying, which is an outright lie.
I'm sorry to say man but .... You just proves his point .... Yes he tells it in an extreme fashion ... But it's for the sake of the argument ... Relgion these day is getting ridiculous ... If your moderate to a point that you dont really believe or follow the bible, stop calling yourself christian .... It's regressive to society .....
The noise to signal ratio is pretty high in this video - you could have made your point in about 3 minutes: You think TF is an idiot, you believe there can be only one thing wrong with religion at a time and you have a better interpretation of the psalm - which apparently is that shepherds are protectors (and implicitly that they are benevolent in their protection.)
I fail to see why TF's questioning the motivation of the shepherd is in any way impacted by your points. What did I miss?
Honestly the more I learned about science and the world, the less I needed God. Literally every problem I have in my life is explainable by science. Male pattern baldness? yep. Asthma? Yup. Not enough money? Yup. There's things that science can't explain, but I don't deal with those things. I am not a time traveler or a physicist.
Did you ask him for the source, or were you just saying it because he didn't post a link?
Thousands of papers on just psalm 23? Don't you think that means. even in the religious community that they don't always agree have there are an overabundance of interpretations? What makes his particularly poor?
rewatched the problem video, and he doesn't say that his interpretation was false.
Finally, why can't there be more than one "problem with religion"?
It seems to me the people that are going along with Thunderf00t's hate of religion are just trying to rationalize their personal feelings for religion.
You know what is a sound metaphor is using your standards.... Charlie Chaplin is Hitler. When comparing mustaches. The other baggage that comes with Hitler is not important cause it isn't the point. A correct metaphor can still be a bad metaphor. Saying Chaplin is Hitler is correct in that they have mustaches in common, but would not be correct in the other weightier notions of comparing someone to HItler.
My bad, just watched the rest of your video, whilst I should of done that in first place, instead of blatantly putting down comments trying to find a hole in your story.. Apart from the first few minutes about Thunderfoots paying scheme, which really doesnt matter at all.. I did not know Thunderfoot was just calling all religion quote "dumb"... hes a smart scientist, though a dumb intellectual, who mutilates reason, however hes still the lesser evil when it comes to creationists... haha
Not only that, you then go onto talk about he is ignorant about religion. I think he actually goes on to talk about those who take the bible literally, as opposed to all creationists who do take it literally, there are Christians who also take it literally. What you should be doing is to actually go on about how to take it metaphorically, as theology is a studied subject which focuses on the morals of religion and its philosophical nature.
He's a good hit on youtube, though he is not powerful enough to cause everyone to want him to continue his videos if he makes his video viewing mandatory via paying. People will just leave him and his videos. Plus it doesn't matter at all, as its his problem and not anyone else's, you're making him out to be something bigger than he even thinks he is, the guy has a very busy schedule. However you're complaining about the guys choice between advertising or donation... why do you care?
I was unaware that the psalmist was a "Christian." Thunderf00t must be losing it. >.> The folks who attack the biblical shepherd analogy for its implication that people are dependent and needful creatures, like sheep, tend to be the same ones who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of Thunderf00t (or Dawkins, or Hitchens, etc.). There is a distinctive lack of free thought among the self-styled freethinkers on the intrawebz.
Thunderfoot has actually explained - more than once - why he doesn't allow ads on his videos. No offense, but it seems to me that you're just looking for things to complain about.
my point is that he contradicts himself, if he wants to post ads so that he is paid, fine I have no problem with that, if he feels that 'educational' videos should be ad free and simply be the product of his love for science, fine, I have no problem with that... if he feels that he somehow deserves to be compensated by his viewers when he could be compensated without imposing on his viewers, he is being a hypocrite.
That's not the reason he objects to ads, at least not as far as I understand what he's saying. His objections are twofold: firstly, he's concerned about perceptions of conflict of interest. Second, he seems to be highly adverse to commecialism. These are not views that I agree with at all, but in fairness, they're not the same as not thinking he should be compensated for his work. That's really another kettle of fish altogether.
@RationalRoundtable -_-... thats ok? hahaha Would have to be amazing to be viewed, like just blow my mind, because I download things for free (not saying which, YOU CANT PROVE ANYTHING INTERNET)
@RationalRoundtable so yeah hes being an ahole... though that has nothing to do with his argument with VenomFangx or Shawn.. as we find out hes just a money grabbing sap.
@RationalRoundtable I think this criticism does not stand if you consider ads imposing on your subscribers. You either impose on your subscribers everytime they watch, or you impose on part of your subscribers.
Why the hell do you care about what he does with his suscribers ??
And that's exactly what he was ridiculizing .... The lord is my shepard... Gardian, protector, nany ...
He know that that's what it means, he goes a little extreme to try to get it in your heads that your wasting your lifes ....
And if your a ''rational'' christian, your just on your way to not being christian anymore... If your christian but dont read and follow the bible, your not really christia
@RationalRoundtable This isn't an anti Thunderf00t channel? Go to the list of videos and click on the "most viewed" filter, a vast majority of those have thunderf00t in the title, like it or not thats the only reason you're enjoying your small amount of "popularity" in some of your videos. Thunderf00t has explained why he doesn't activate ad revenue on his video, and he's not being "compensated" for his work he's getting money to continue his work.
@phallictractor Hmm no... religion stick to religion, science stick to science, however creationists pissed off a lot people, thus also giving all religion a bad name. Scientists and Theologians hate, HATE Creationists.
the reason he doesn't do ads cause ads are gay as shit and everyone hates them. it's like in the movie the social network, ur trying to end the party at 11
@ItsTheSuperFly Not quite. The Hebrew text (rather, the author) proclaims his lack of fear in times of war. I know, that's a bit odd, but you have to look at the author (probably David) and the context (his army being pressured by various enemies.) Sure, death has a part in it, but it's really an affirmation of his protection by Yahweh. Not exactly "smart", but... ; )
If you take the shepherd analogy to its natural end then yes Thunderf00t is right. A shepherd only takes care of his sheep so that they will be fit for market. Obviously that is not what the Bible story is about. It stops short of the part where God is only fattening you up for slaughter. Having said that....TF is being an arse.
Your kind of arguing against someones opinion. You also do so using a lot of loaded words to sort of support an almost not existence argument. I might as well say I think my favorite color is black and you try to prove me wrong. Interpenetration is up to the reader. It appears your just trying to attack someone to get the anti-thunderfoot crowd and pull some of his viewer to beef up your own views.
@vorkvoyd Then if I say Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol is about a donkey named Sally that loves bunny rabbits and rainbows, is that interpretation solely an opinion? No. At some point in time, the historical-grammatical interpretations come in to bring in FACTS, and it's a FACT that what Thunderf00t is saying is not part of any historical or grammatical evidence whatsoever. It's a HORRIBLE interpretation, coupled with ridiculous insults to the text and Christianity.
@Audiofalcon7 ur dickens analogy is ur own opinion. What changes is that no one cares about ur opinion because it makes no sense. TF's interpretation makes sense to a lot of people because it is based on Reality. Now, ironically you're just saying the bible isn't based on reality.
@Audiofalcon7 yes, i am kind of a troll, but you're starting to piss me off now. What history is used to interpret the bible please? there is not one shred of evidence for ANYTHING in the bible unless ur a gulliblle little shrimp and think some cornflakes is shaped as jesus' head.
@goofydog07 Are you telling me this book came to be without any authors? They just POPPED FROM THE SKY AND NOBODY KNOWS HOW THEY WERE WRITTEN AND WHY THEY WROTE IT. HERP DERP.
@Audiofalcon7 no. i'm saying the story(ies) of the bible have as much credibility as the lord of the rings or star wars. Just cuz someone wrote it doesnt make it true, or history at all. LOTR is not history to anyone. Neither should the bible be.
@Audiofalcon7 he is not saying whether something is in the bible or not. He is saying what he thinks about it and I would say is has just as much merit as someone who says they take comfort in those same passages. I think that being a lamb is horrible because you should inspire to be an individual and you should think for yourself. Your still arguing opinion. Also, Christianity insults its self.
@vorkvoyd So then all that's left for both atheists and theists at this point is just menial subjective opinions not founded on facts anymore. Well, now...
I'm don't see the difference between the amount of reason thunderf00t apologists have, and fundamentalist apologists have.
@Audiofalcon7 he was not really debating christianity. He was just stating his opinion on why he thinks Christianity is absurd. God is a non-falsifiable claim. Christians refuse to let there faith be scrutinized so there is not much of a debate. You also don't need to be a thunderfoot apologist to see that this guy is over reacting.
@vorkvoyd So 2 billion people on this earth are not willing to be scrutinized. Okay. Gotcha.
So then because God is a non-falsifiable claim, thunderf00t can state his opinion without taking into consideration ANY historical-grammatical hermeneutic that archeologists, theologians, and scholars use. That's like saying a fundamentalist is allowed to proclaim and do whatever they want to evolution without taking any scholarship into consideration at all....after all, it's their "opinion".
What errors did he make again that are skewing facts? Did he say something that was not there? I thought he read it out of the book and in the bible they sacrifice sheep.
Evolution is a fact in science and is provable and falsifiable and has been observed. You can have an opinion about it and I could not care less. How ever if you start lying about it or spew ignorant crap that is not true factually then I might be inclined to correct you.
@vorkvoyd Think about the foundational interpretation thunderf00t made. Is this interpretation based on the actual intent of the authors of the Psalms and the cultural, historical background? Yes, one may call it vile - that is not my point. My point is that he makes this argument, but the basis of his thought and interpretation is founded without any historical facts of the culture of the Jews. He does not look at the fact that they believed in no afterlife; or the contrasting viewpoints..
@Audiofalcon7 no one can truly know what the intent was. It was 2000 years ago so there is no sure way to know.
Also why does he have to research the culture in order to interpret a passage? Do most Christians? Saying in order to get an opinion on a book I have to research the authors culture and background is nonsense. I read a book called The Lamb and it was a great book in my opinion and I could find meaning in it but I have no clue what the culture of the author is.
@vorkvoyd Intents can definitely be discerned. Very clearly. The book Power, Politics, and the Making of the Bible by Mary and Robert Coote, along with John Collins' Introduction to the Hebrew Bible show profound intent of political centralization by editing the text, for instance. The Psalms and Proverbs were older texts to exemplify how righteousness worked. The intent was to show that those who are righteous gain righteous things, and those unrighteous do not. Subsequently.......
@vorkvoyd Job and Ecclesiastes were written in a direct response to that - that (except for the first verse and last verse in Ecclesiastes, and the last part of Job, in which their grammar, etc. reflects a profound edit by political powers (perhaps Josiah) generations later) the unrighteous do have rewards the righteous deserve, etc. In all honesty, you take into account the Psalms and the intent it was reflecting, particularly the righteousness of Yahweh, and you'll see what Psalm 23 was.......
@vorkvoyd conveying. That is, that Yahweh's righteousness guides and prevails over all, in THIS life. Take what you will from it, but thunderf00t's interpretation is not historical. It is grounded in just reading it superficially and not looking at evidence. Just like creationist's view on evolution is a face-value look with on care of evidence. The interpretative critique and subsequent opinion of it all is just garbage to listen to as a result, and yet he gets 100,000 views....
@vorkvoyd He takes in no consideration of any type of theological scholarship, and finds the basis of his opinion not on facts and evidence - but on arbitrary garbage, with a self-righteous tone that insults Christians and calls them retarded. If you're going to call something retarded, at least interpret the damn text right in a historical/grammatical fashion.
@Audiofalcon7 are you writing a dissertation of replying to a post on youtube. All you did was restate what you previously stated and the only new content was practically irrelevant. Where does rightousness and evolution fit into TF00ts opinion of psalms that deal with being comforted and guided? Your just asserting that Tf00t is wrong. In one simple paragraph tell me the main reason that he is indeed wrong and use an example. Don't just ramble. And, one argument at a time please.
@vorkvoyd For one, thunderf00t claims that this statement is poorly thought out, and the basis of this argument is that "shepherds do not look after their sheep out of a sense of philanthropy". He further states, "he's only your friend until you get onto the killing floor". As I stated, the Jews did not believe in the afterlife. Further, the message does not - in its original statement - has a meaning that IS well-thought out by culture and basis, and a meaning that thunderf00t misses.
@Audiofalcon7 in the bible they do sacrifice their sheep so he does have a point, contrary to what you said. That is the only actual argument that you have stated and it is a poor one. The rest of what your saying is just claims. If you say they miss the interpretation, it is up to you to say how so, and why your interpretation is more valid. Your saying its because he is not looking at their culture. However, it is well known that they brutally sacrifice their sheep to appease their god.
@vorkvoyd You missed my point. What I am getting at is that due to the fact that the cultural religion of Judaism believed in on afterlife, the fact that a sheep dies - no matter how it is inherently done - does not matter. Death was a horrible thing then, as N.T. Wright points out - so horrible, even, that I do believe if one concentrates on death and what they did to the sheep in the end, they are missing the message. Regardless of sacrifice, regardless of pain, Judaism......................
@Audiofalcon7 It does not matter that sheep die? In this case it is a metaphor for people. If that is what you think your a horrible person with morality that rivals ted bundy. " ...no matter how..." seriously you may need actual psychological help if that your perspective. That is how serial killers are born. This conversation is over. I will not tolerate any lack of respect for human life or animal suffering. This just proves religion is fundamentally sick.
@vorkvoyd Are you really trying to troll or something? To ancient Judaism, there was no afterlife. They wanted to make the most of their life now, and that is what Psalms 23 connotates to. Shut up already.
@vorkvoyd had a perspective of irrelevancy towards it when it came to praising God. They sought to have guidance in this life - that God can bless them in this life. No matter how or when one dies, ancient Judaism had a perspective of enjoying this life - which is why the Sadducees would be considered the "conservatives" in Jesus' time, as well. TF misses this completely, and does not take it into consideration. Furthermore, he thinks its poorly thought out. It's not. It's a lot deeper.
@vorkvoyd The Argument does not even stop there, either. I do believe the differing perspectives of Ecclesiastes and Job with Psalms and Proverbs has a lot do with Psalms 23, as well. The main issue, really, is that TF thinks Psalms 23 is poorly thought out. He rightfully wonders why didn't anyone look back into the verse; but the answer is hidden within the culture of Judaism. If he does not want to look at it, that's his prerogative. Regardless, don't insult Christianity, then.
@vorkvoyd He is ignorant in the basis of his opinion in that regard, and misses the entire interpretation and takes none of it into consideration. He is wrong, and does not look at the text in a truly critical manner, but just appeals to emotion, but he tries to use "logic and reason" to prove his point. That isn't reality - that's a cheap knock-off of what reason and evidence entails. It's disgustingly missing the point of the literature.
Oh god. I'm truly embarassed ur allowed to live. Im not a big TF fan but ur just truly a moron. Here's why:
1.TF chooses willingly not to put adds on his videos because he doesnt want to distract from his argument and inconvenience the audience.
2.His interpretation of the Lord is My Shepherd is based on reality whereas urs is based on childrens fiction. Sheep are herded to be eaten. Sheep are not herded just to be safe and protected.
@goofydog07 Are sheep herded to be eaten is not the point of the context. You're not basing your interpretation in reality - if you did, you will grasp the historical-grammatical hermeneutics of the text, which exemplify the obvious truth that ancient Jews did NOT believe in an afterlife. The afterlife and death is irrelevant in this text, but the point is that the shepherd guides them peacefully and calmly through life, and are not the ones to harm them. You fail miserably at theology.
@Audiofalcon7 contexts are personal. You choose to believe that interpretation because the alternate doesn't suit your understanding of the bible or your god... I choose TF's because it shows just how thoughtless the metaphor really is, and that you're like a flock of sheep following your master shepherd's directions, stupidly, and thoughtlessly, even though he won't be there for you in the end.
@goofydog07 Wow - you are nearly on the verge of solipsism, bringing everything as "personal", including historical context. Whether or not you want to accept something is not the point. Why must the Bible be without history and context and must be so much so with "your understanding of the Bible". It's like a creationist saying "It's your understanding of the evidence"; does that change them from being wrong?
It's an interpretation that doesn't match history. Get over it.
Ah Thunderf00t, funny but he seems to be more religious about his no-religion stance on things than some local youtube theists that i pay attention to such as yourself and Dawahfilm just to name few, Thundy has gone way down lately as he used to make good videos in the past, i don't mind people asking for help from their subscribers but thunder has critizied people in the past for doing so, also i think you are jelous of him be cause he has more hair than you ;)
I don't understand TF - he wants to criticisize religion (well, mainly Christianity and Islam), but most of the arguements I've heard him make are pretty shallow these days.
I mean, I don't like the idea of needing a guide, even if it's a benevolent one. People can talk about the concept of the good shepherd in a civilised manner, but what TF is doing is unproductive and I'm frankly a little embarassed he still has a large following. :P
Good response. FWIW, I'm a non-believer and I find TF's rhetoric tiresome and strident. I've never seen him as a "pillar of intellectualism". Also, I've always liked the sentiment in the 23rd psalm, even though I don't believe in supernatural beings. Thanks-
I find it funny how someone having a different opinion on say religion than you (tf) makes them "ignorant". If you watch tf's videos, you might think many a different thing about the guy, but calling him "ignorant" is .. well for a lack of a better word its ignorant on your part. He is obviously very well learned in lots of different topics and religion is one of them. You might not agree with his stances, but it doesn't mean he doesn't understand religion
It should simply be the problems of religion instead of "the problem". Yesterday i had some jehovah's witness at my doorstep. Going through the many murders of babies in the bible the jehovah's witness replied that god killed them out of love. Or that they simply deserved it. How people feel the need to justify the most horrible acts, is just one of many problems with religion...
@RationalRoundtable im no troll..ur a freak..i have no time for religion...it makes me sik to my stomach..the sooner we ban it for eva the better we will all be.:):) mary was raped by muslims thats y she lied bout a virgin birth....oh and jesus was gay..and he loved evry minute of it..science rules all and religion is my enemy.:) im so glad i live in england where ppl get laughed at for spouting nonsense..
1. He has said previously that he doesnt want to ruin educational videos with ads. Donating is different but we'll agree to disagree. He also said that making videos take a lot of hard work. Smart people agree. Ron paul first broke the record with the internet money bomb. If you believe in what he does that people easily send money without questioning it.
I was gonna comment on each point but since you were way off on first comment I'll guess there is nothing more for me to see here.
I really do not understand TF's line of reason here... surely he has to know that true 'free thinkers' in the atheist community such as yourself and others can see Psalm 23 for what it is.
no where in his video did he indicate that anything in his video was a jest, if he is 'just kidding' let him say so. But then I guess if all his commentaries are just jokes I guess that would suggest that he has no real argumentation to make and is just desperate.
Yeah, Thunderf00t is shocking when he tries to do videos over the Bible. I have seen atheists that are more about mocking the Bible (sometimes they refer to it now as the buy-bull) then making intelligent arguments. Thunderf00t, a more intellectual atheist, ironically has managed to make some of the most outlandish and unbelievably dumb attacks on the Bible that I have seen to date. I applaud him for trying to be original, but that is the only compliment I can give him.
Thunderf00t should stick to what he knows... You will never find me attempting to 'disprove' evolution... why? because I do not know enough about evolutionary theory to give a intelligent comment on it, besides I really have no problem with evolution in general.
@RationalRoundtable I agree, I could not make an intelligent video on science because I do not have a detailed knowledge of the subject. However, from all the educational television I watch on science, I have no reason to make videos attacking evolution either because the theory seems to have strong evidence to support it.
Very enjoyable talk. You (and cabbie) have a much superior understanding of this thing to tf's. It elevates the discussion; and the psalm has never moved me more than when you read it just now.
I just watched a Brett Keane take on this and i thought he made a comment on this psalm that was far more profound than Thunderf00ts. He basically made the point, how should we view the shepherd when we know that he is also the one responsible for the wolves existence in the first place?
Ofc that doesn't alter the beauty of the passage but it is very clever, wish I had thought of it, in fact.
@voiceofreason467 Oh, and one more thing, if you're thinking of making a video threatening to sue me, like you did to KeithTruth, that isn't gonna scare me either, so yeah, don't bother.
@voiceofreason467 On an aside, I'm quite amused (and not at all surprised) at your hipocrisy. So much for the whole ' sending fellons to prison doesn't solve anything' bs, huh?
@voiceofreason467 Intimidation tactics, really? I'm not scared of you, Treason, or Peter Joseph or Manboobs or any other member of the Zeitgeist Central Committee... fact is, I haven't done anything to you, you got nothing on me. So by all means, charge me with cyber-bullying, let's see how long it takes for the judge to laugh you out of court.
I think you make a very valid point. I don't think we should forget it for the reason that he might possibly try it again. In my video concerning him I said that he needed to address the past and assure everyone that it wouldn't happen again. We should be on our guard. I was a little disapointed that he totally ignored my video. On the other hand though I am willing to give him a chance to make good.
@voiceofreason467 All this verbal diarrhea just to say he isn't addressing the points your buddy made? If you're trying to show off as some sort of intellectual, you're failing miserably at it.
Keep in mind that Thunderf00t only posts a video every 1-2 weeks on average. If he started posting 2-3 times a week he could easily make $30k - $50k per year with his subscriber base and general popularity.
@RationalRoundtable : but that's without benefits, a teacher gets some health insurance, vacation, sick, etc... it seems like a lot of work for the living it produces... though that experience would probably be great for someone that wanted to get into film making. I generally have criticised Thunderfoot, but he's a good editor and decent narrator... he could do science education film and probably make a decent living at it, and a five figure bonus income direct from inet wouldn't hurt.
16 minutes is a long time to say nothing. Even with your last point you have zero points.
What the author was "trying" to express is precisely WHY this is a bad metaphor. That is the precise problem - shepherd is a bad metaphor for what the author wanted to express because of what shepherding is all about. In the end you didn't refute anything, you just complained about ThunderF00t.
Just because you may disagree does not mean I made zero points. I correctly pointed out that TF is ether willingly ignorant or stupid when it comes to matters of theology, further I cited his own source to disprove his own interpretation of Psalm 23.
I was going to also mention his blatant misuse of the metaphor, but others (including VFX) have already done so and I did not want to make the video longer.
"According to tradition, all of the psalms were written by King David."
This was written in the article and it is totally wrong. The Psalms were written by many different people including anonymous authors. All we know is that they are all inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Fair enough, but my point about the article is that it of course provides a better interpretation of the shepherd metaphor than Thunderf00t does which of course is ironic since Thunderf00t tries to suggest that his use of the metaphor is spot on.
After watching the first four minutes I still haven't seen anything but mock how lame Thunderf00t is. I'm interested how he is wrong, but starting with pompous ridiculing without justification isn't the way to do it. Just wearing a hat and mocking others doesn't make you an intellectual.
fair enough, yes I was a bit harsh with Thunderf00t, but quite frankly if you watch the rest of the video you should see that I am quite justified in suggesting that TF is ether deceitful, ignorant, or just plain stupid. Especially considering that he contradicts his own source.
As I've remarked a few times with this drama, Maybe we're taking TF's vid out of context? . Me thinks he was just conveying a message, which I agree with, and misinterpretation or not, has TF ever claimed to be a biblical scholar? He got his point across didn't he? He chuckled and tossed in a Simpsons clip, can't remember the last time I've heard him pull a genuine chuckle. Ridiculous bible symbology misinterpreted or not, Slaughterhouse or no slaughterhouse they're still sheep...
and the sheep/shepherd metaphor is still a good one. Yes you can twist it to mean something other than what it clearly means, just as you can do with almost any metaphor consider this:
Commentator: "Wow, that Michael Phelps swims like a fish!"
Thunderf00t: " So, Michael Phelps is cold blooded, has scales, fins, and can breathe under water?"
Commentator: "um... that's not what I mean."
Thunderf00t: "Oh, you mean that he would taste good baked with lemon juice?"
There is no doubt the writers of the psalm only intended to point out god guides and protects you. But as an atheist I agree with thunderf00t that the analogy stands more truly and the flock is "protected" purely for the profit of the prophets. Churches get fat on the suffering of the people they oppress.
As a non-theist, I am always glad to see your response when anyone, theist or nontheist, gets their head on backwards. If you want some different targets to review, I can provide a list. =P
One Catholic priest I know did liken his idea of the afterlife to an infant in an eternal motherly embrace. I think many people, religious and non-religious alike, have a certain romantic and idealised memory of their infant and childhood years.
Why I like you RR, is that you in fact do go against Thunderf00t. You're my only subbed channel that does that. And you do it eloquently and precise. I'm one of those atheist.
When I saw the Tf00ts video, I was sarcastic, it was that poor. I wrote. "How to get into an analogy and miss the point. Well done Tf00t."
This psalm is one of the most beautiful visions of 'faith'. "My cup runs over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life". Even I get the deeper meaing.
Sure, you may not become the pope's lamb chops but if your religious leaders are Peter Popoff or Benny Hinn you will be getting fleeced.
Just because you choose to see the metaphor from one angle doesn't mean the metaphor is free from suggesting unintended meanings. That is the problem with metaphors.
except that the point of TF's video was that his interpretation was the BEST possible interpretation when it is obvious that what he suggested is not what was meant. If he said soemthing like:
"Christians and Jews see God as a protector, but when I read this verse I think of lambs being led to slaughter..."
I would have less of a problem... I would still disagree but he would be stating a valid opinion.
agreed... I am a little more aggressive in this than normal, but quite frankly the level of ignorance of even basic layman's theology here is so astounding that I have to call into question TF's motives or intelligence.
For the record, I did "thumb up" TF's video, based solely on the fact that I've disliked that Psalm for a while for other reasons. I'd prefer to think in (wolf) pack terms instead of flock mentality (roughly speaking); members look after and protect each other rather than having a sheppard.
That said, it was a mistake to like a video with poor arguments simply because I dislike the psalm for other reasons, and this is excellent rebuttal of the faults in the video.
@firefly4f4 Yea I feel the same. I didn't thumbs up Tf00t's vid because... well... because he's a twunt. But I did thumbs down this video because it's just too supportive of something which anyone with half a brain can see is wishy washy, sentimental crap that sounds good when you say it in a profound manner, but is actually a load of arrant pap.
Saying “But we don’t want you to compare them in that way” is not a good response. If I said “My mum is my hooker. When I’m feeling stressed I call her up and she comes over and cheers me up” I would be using a bad metaphor. It wouldn’t matter if I insist that you ignore the fact that the hooker uses sex to cheer me up and just focus on the fact that she cheers me up when comparing her to my mum. Regardless of my intentions the metaphor suggests inappropriate sexual acts and that makes it poor.
Guaguanco11 3 days ago
So you claim that the metaphorical link between the Lord and a shepherd is that, just as the shepherd protects his flock, the Lord protects his followers. I don't see how this avoids the criticisms that it's a poorly chosen metaphor. A shepherd protects his flock for selfish reasons. If the Lord's protection is like that of a shepherd then this suggests selfish motives. A better metaphor would have been a protector who protects out of unconditional love (e.g. a parent).
Guaguanco11 3 days ago
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stevenrc33 2 months ago
The bible is hate speech.
calmreason 9 months ago
Who ever made this video has got to be a fucking moron. Dude you make a 15 minute video going on and about how stupid someone is and never see the fact that anyone who believes in any religion is one of the dumbest morons to ever walk the planet. You want to call out someone's intelligence but you believe in a 500 year old drunk that build a cruse liner 100 year old pregnant women and talking snakes? Here is a metaphor ever hear people that live in glass houses should not throw stones?
chiefsforpres 10 months ago
If the word "God" is interpreted to mean "Reality" then the poem makes a lot of sense. There is no greater protector, and no greater wisdom, than a relationship with Reality.
KevinSolway 10 months ago
This is stupid. the interpretation you give is completely the same as the second intepretation thinderfoot gives, the difference is the truths.
You see it as a good thing and thunderfoot sees it as a weak thing. Funny thing is you are both right. The more you depend on someone to look out for you the weaker you become, and the person looking out for you is being good.
The problem is you accuse thunderfoot of outright lying, which is an outright lie.
knivesthe 11 months ago
In my opinion, a parent is a better metaphor for a god.
A shepherd is an employee who looks after livestock while they are being exploited for fleece, meat and milk.
OppirompaMiDotCom 11 months ago
I'm sorry to say man but .... You just proves his point .... Yes he tells it in an extreme fashion ... But it's for the sake of the argument ... Relgion these day is getting ridiculous ... If your moderate to a point that you dont really believe or follow the bible, stop calling yourself christian .... It's regressive to society .....
659851 11 months ago
The noise to signal ratio is pretty high in this video - you could have made your point in about 3 minutes: You think TF is an idiot, you believe there can be only one thing wrong with religion at a time and you have a better interpretation of the psalm - which apparently is that shepherds are protectors (and implicitly that they are benevolent in their protection.)
I fail to see why TF's questioning the motivation of the shepherd is in any way impacted by your points. What did I miss?
apfejes 11 months ago
While I am curious as to why Tf00t doesn't just become a partner, I think it is his problem.
Ninjaculation 11 months ago
Honestly the more I learned about science and the world, the less I needed God. Literally every problem I have in my life is explainable by science. Male pattern baldness? yep. Asthma? Yup. Not enough money? Yup. There's things that science can't explain, but I don't deal with those things. I am not a time traveler or a physicist.
Ninjaculation 11 months ago
Did you ask him for the source, or were you just saying it because he didn't post a link?
Thousands of papers on just psalm 23? Don't you think that means. even in the religious community that they don't always agree have there are an overabundance of interpretations? What makes his particularly poor?
rewatched the problem video, and he doesn't say that his interpretation was false.
Finally, why can't there be more than one "problem with religion"?
Pistonrager 11 months ago
It seems to me the people that are going along with Thunderf00t's hate of religion are just trying to rationalize their personal feelings for religion.
hippo11222 11 months ago
"The Lord is my sheppard that I shall not want..." That alone does it for me. Even he admits we should stay away from him!
If you don't than you are just stupid (or illiterate)
lbrex78 11 months ago
You belong to a religion which has one true way to heaven, and demands you come to god as children.
YES I think you want a god who takes care of your, as a parent would a child, as its part of your canonical doctrine.
mordinvan 11 months ago
You know what is a sound metaphor is using your standards.... Charlie Chaplin is Hitler. When comparing mustaches. The other baggage that comes with Hitler is not important cause it isn't the point. A correct metaphor can still be a bad metaphor. Saying Chaplin is Hitler is correct in that they have mustaches in common, but would not be correct in the other weightier notions of comparing someone to HItler.
nospacesallowed 11 months ago
*similar :)
NoeLPZC 1 year ago
My bad, just watched the rest of your video, whilst I should of done that in first place, instead of blatantly putting down comments trying to find a hole in your story.. Apart from the first few minutes about Thunderfoots paying scheme, which really doesnt matter at all.. I did not know Thunderfoot was just calling all religion quote "dumb"... hes a smart scientist, though a dumb intellectual, who mutilates reason, however hes still the lesser evil when it comes to creationists... haha
Alyxm 1 year ago
Not only that, you then go onto talk about he is ignorant about religion. I think he actually goes on to talk about those who take the bible literally, as opposed to all creationists who do take it literally, there are Christians who also take it literally. What you should be doing is to actually go on about how to take it metaphorically, as theology is a studied subject which focuses on the morals of religion and its philosophical nature.
Alyxm 1 year ago
He's a good hit on youtube, though he is not powerful enough to cause everyone to want him to continue his videos if he makes his video viewing mandatory via paying. People will just leave him and his videos. Plus it doesn't matter at all, as its his problem and not anyone else's, you're making him out to be something bigger than he even thinks he is, the guy has a very busy schedule. However you're complaining about the guys choice between advertising or donation... why do you care?
Alyxm 1 year ago
The psalm is about subserviance to a magical invisable sky daddy.
lordnuck33 1 year ago
"Christians Say the Dumbest Things"
I was unaware that the psalmist was a "Christian." Thunderf00t must be losing it. >.> The folks who attack the biblical shepherd analogy for its implication that people are dependent and needful creatures, like sheep, tend to be the same ones who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of Thunderf00t (or Dawkins, or Hitchens, etc.). There is a distinctive lack of free thought among the self-styled freethinkers on the intrawebz.
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
LOL, TF would make a great creationist!
TilenKow 1 year ago
Is that Bear Mountain Bridge?
GWR3440 1 year ago
thunderfoot is quite dumb for a clever guy lol
LLiimmzz 1 year ago
*similAr
PrecambrianLullaby 1 year ago
Thunderfoot has actually explained - more than once - why he doesn't allow ads on his videos. No offense, but it seems to me that you're just looking for things to complain about.
LordZentei 1 year ago
@LordZentei
my point is that he contradicts himself, if he wants to post ads so that he is paid, fine I have no problem with that, if he feels that 'educational' videos should be ad free and simply be the product of his love for science, fine, I have no problem with that... if he feels that he somehow deserves to be compensated by his viewers when he could be compensated without imposing on his viewers, he is being a hypocrite.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago 3
@RationalRoundtable
That's not the reason he objects to ads, at least not as far as I understand what he's saying. His objections are twofold: firstly, he's concerned about perceptions of conflict of interest. Second, he seems to be highly adverse to commecialism. These are not views that I agree with at all, but in fairness, they're not the same as not thinking he should be compensated for his work. That's really another kettle of fish altogether.
LordZentei 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable you cant make money off of youtube by charging people to view videos...
Alyxm 1 year ago
@Alyxm
actually you can, using the YouTube rental system.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable -_-... thats ok? hahaha Would have to be amazing to be viewed, like just blow my mind, because I download things for free (not saying which, YOU CANT PROVE ANYTHING INTERNET)
Alyxm 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable so yeah hes being an ahole... though that has nothing to do with his argument with VenomFangx or Shawn.. as we find out hes just a money grabbing sap.
Alyxm 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable I think this criticism does not stand if you consider ads imposing on your subscribers. You either impose on your subscribers everytime they watch, or you impose on part of your subscribers.
nospacesallowed 11 months ago
@RationalRoundtable
Please look up definition of hypocrite.
lbrex78 11 months ago
@RationalRoundtable
Why the hell do you care about what he does with his suscribers ??
And that's exactly what he was ridiculizing .... The lord is my shepard... Gardian, protector, nany ...
He know that that's what it means, he goes a little extreme to try to get it in your heads that your wasting your lifes ....
And if your a ''rational'' christian, your just on your way to not being christian anymore... If your christian but dont read and follow the bible, your not really christia
659851 11 months ago
@RationalRoundtable This isn't an anti Thunderf00t channel? Go to the list of videos and click on the "most viewed" filter, a vast majority of those have thunderf00t in the title, like it or not thats the only reason you're enjoying your small amount of "popularity" in some of your videos. Thunderf00t has explained why he doesn't activate ad revenue on his video, and he's not being "compensated" for his work he's getting money to continue his work.
ManicTheManic 11 months ago
Religion=Irrational.
phallictractor 1 year ago
@phallictractor
comment = pointless
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago 12
@RationalRoundtable did you just call your comment pointless so doe that now mean that other comment has a point now
kainniak1 11 months ago
@kainniak1 What the hell did you just say?
LicoriceLain 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LicoriceLain did you just call your comment pointless so doe that now mean that other comment has a point now
kainniak1 11 months ago
@phallictractor Hmm no... religion stick to religion, science stick to science, however creationists pissed off a lot people, thus also giving all religion a bad name. Scientists and Theologians hate, HATE Creationists.
Alyxm 1 year ago
the reason he doesn't do ads cause ads are gay as shit and everyone hates them. it's like in the movie the social network, ur trying to end the party at 11
heftybigalfred010 1 year ago
@ItsTheSuperFly Not quite. The Hebrew text (rather, the author) proclaims his lack of fear in times of war. I know, that's a bit odd, but you have to look at the author (probably David) and the context (his army being pressured by various enemies.) Sure, death has a part in it, but it's really an affirmation of his protection by Yahweh. Not exactly "smart", but... ; )
rationalmuscle 1 year ago
If you take the shepherd analogy to its natural end then yes Thunderf00t is right. A shepherd only takes care of his sheep so that they will be fit for market. Obviously that is not what the Bible story is about. It stops short of the part where God is only fattening you up for slaughter. Having said that....TF is being an arse.
holdontoyourwig 1 year ago
Meh. Over-dramatic.
FlimFlam505 1 year ago
@FlimFlam505 Dramatic hate meets dramatic response. What's not to expect?
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
Your kind of arguing against someones opinion. You also do so using a lot of loaded words to sort of support an almost not existence argument. I might as well say I think my favorite color is black and you try to prove me wrong. Interpenetration is up to the reader. It appears your just trying to attack someone to get the anti-thunderfoot crowd and pull some of his viewer to beef up your own views.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago 3
@vorkvoyd You took the words right out of my mouth.
Jexyss 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd Then if I say Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol is about a donkey named Sally that loves bunny rabbits and rainbows, is that interpretation solely an opinion? No. At some point in time, the historical-grammatical interpretations come in to bring in FACTS, and it's a FACT that what Thunderf00t is saying is not part of any historical or grammatical evidence whatsoever. It's a HORRIBLE interpretation, coupled with ridiculous insults to the text and Christianity.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 ur dickens analogy is ur own opinion. What changes is that no one cares about ur opinion because it makes no sense. TF's interpretation makes sense to a lot of people because it is based on Reality. Now, ironically you're just saying the bible isn't based on reality.
goofydog07 1 year ago
@goofydog07 Yes, because using history to interpret the text means it's not based in reality.
Such. A. Troll.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 yes, i am kind of a troll, but you're starting to piss me off now. What history is used to interpret the bible please? there is not one shred of evidence for ANYTHING in the bible unless ur a gulliblle little shrimp and think some cornflakes is shaped as jesus' head.
goofydog07 1 year ago
@goofydog07 Are you telling me this book came to be without any authors? They just POPPED FROM THE SKY AND NOBODY KNOWS HOW THEY WERE WRITTEN AND WHY THEY WROTE IT. HERP DERP.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 no. i'm saying the story(ies) of the bible have as much credibility as the lord of the rings or star wars. Just cuz someone wrote it doesnt make it true, or history at all. LOTR is not history to anyone. Neither should the bible be.
goofydog07 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 he is not saying whether something is in the bible or not. He is saying what he thinks about it and I would say is has just as much merit as someone who says they take comfort in those same passages. I think that being a lamb is horrible because you should inspire to be an individual and you should think for yourself. Your still arguing opinion. Also, Christianity insults its self.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd So then all that's left for both atheists and theists at this point is just menial subjective opinions not founded on facts anymore. Well, now...
I'm don't see the difference between the amount of reason thunderf00t apologists have, and fundamentalist apologists have.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 he was not really debating christianity. He was just stating his opinion on why he thinks Christianity is absurd. God is a non-falsifiable claim. Christians refuse to let there faith be scrutinized so there is not much of a debate. You also don't need to be a thunderfoot apologist to see that this guy is over reacting.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd So 2 billion people on this earth are not willing to be scrutinized. Okay. Gotcha.
So then because God is a non-falsifiable claim, thunderf00t can state his opinion without taking into consideration ANY historical-grammatical hermeneutic that archeologists, theologians, and scholars use. That's like saying a fundamentalist is allowed to proclaim and do whatever they want to evolution without taking any scholarship into consideration at all....after all, it's their "opinion".
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 yes for the most part
What errors did he make again that are skewing facts? Did he say something that was not there? I thought he read it out of the book and in the bible they sacrifice sheep.
Evolution is a fact in science and is provable and falsifiable and has been observed. You can have an opinion about it and I could not care less. How ever if you start lying about it or spew ignorant crap that is not true factually then I might be inclined to correct you.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd Think about the foundational interpretation thunderf00t made. Is this interpretation based on the actual intent of the authors of the Psalms and the cultural, historical background? Yes, one may call it vile - that is not my point. My point is that he makes this argument, but the basis of his thought and interpretation is founded without any historical facts of the culture of the Jews. He does not look at the fact that they believed in no afterlife; or the contrasting viewpoints..
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 no one can truly know what the intent was. It was 2000 years ago so there is no sure way to know.
Also why does he have to research the culture in order to interpret a passage? Do most Christians? Saying in order to get an opinion on a book I have to research the authors culture and background is nonsense. I read a book called The Lamb and it was a great book in my opinion and I could find meaning in it but I have no clue what the culture of the author is.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd Intents can definitely be discerned. Very clearly. The book Power, Politics, and the Making of the Bible by Mary and Robert Coote, along with John Collins' Introduction to the Hebrew Bible show profound intent of political centralization by editing the text, for instance. The Psalms and Proverbs were older texts to exemplify how righteousness worked. The intent was to show that those who are righteous gain righteous things, and those unrighteous do not. Subsequently.......
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd Job and Ecclesiastes were written in a direct response to that - that (except for the first verse and last verse in Ecclesiastes, and the last part of Job, in which their grammar, etc. reflects a profound edit by political powers (perhaps Josiah) generations later) the unrighteous do have rewards the righteous deserve, etc. In all honesty, you take into account the Psalms and the intent it was reflecting, particularly the righteousness of Yahweh, and you'll see what Psalm 23 was.......
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd conveying. That is, that Yahweh's righteousness guides and prevails over all, in THIS life. Take what you will from it, but thunderf00t's interpretation is not historical. It is grounded in just reading it superficially and not looking at evidence. Just like creationist's view on evolution is a face-value look with on care of evidence. The interpretative critique and subsequent opinion of it all is just garbage to listen to as a result, and yet he gets 100,000 views....
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd He takes in no consideration of any type of theological scholarship, and finds the basis of his opinion not on facts and evidence - but on arbitrary garbage, with a self-righteous tone that insults Christians and calls them retarded. If you're going to call something retarded, at least interpret the damn text right in a historical/grammatical fashion.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 are you writing a dissertation of replying to a post on youtube. All you did was restate what you previously stated and the only new content was practically irrelevant. Where does rightousness and evolution fit into TF00ts opinion of psalms that deal with being comforted and guided? Your just asserting that Tf00t is wrong. In one simple paragraph tell me the main reason that he is indeed wrong and use an example. Don't just ramble. And, one argument at a time please.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd For one, thunderf00t claims that this statement is poorly thought out, and the basis of this argument is that "shepherds do not look after their sheep out of a sense of philanthropy". He further states, "he's only your friend until you get onto the killing floor". As I stated, the Jews did not believe in the afterlife. Further, the message does not - in its original statement - has a meaning that IS well-thought out by culture and basis, and a meaning that thunderf00t misses.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 the message has a meaning that IS well-thought out. My fault. It is evidenced and thought out thoroughly on the basis of culture. Typo.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 in the bible they do sacrifice their sheep so he does have a point, contrary to what you said. That is the only actual argument that you have stated and it is a poor one. The rest of what your saying is just claims. If you say they miss the interpretation, it is up to you to say how so, and why your interpretation is more valid. Your saying its because he is not looking at their culture. However, it is well known that they brutally sacrifice their sheep to appease their god.
vorkvoyd 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd You missed my point. What I am getting at is that due to the fact that the cultural religion of Judaism believed in on afterlife, the fact that a sheep dies - no matter how it is inherently done - does not matter. Death was a horrible thing then, as N.T. Wright points out - so horrible, even, that I do believe if one concentrates on death and what they did to the sheep in the end, they are missing the message. Regardless of sacrifice, regardless of pain, Judaism......................
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 It does not matter that sheep die? In this case it is a metaphor for people. If that is what you think your a horrible person with morality that rivals ted bundy. " ...no matter how..." seriously you may need actual psychological help if that your perspective. That is how serial killers are born. This conversation is over. I will not tolerate any lack of respect for human life or animal suffering. This just proves religion is fundamentally sick.
vorkvoyd 11 months ago
@vorkvoyd Are you really trying to troll or something? To ancient Judaism, there was no afterlife. They wanted to make the most of their life now, and that is what Psalms 23 connotates to. Shut up already.
Audiofalcon7 11 months ago
@vorkvoyd had a perspective of irrelevancy towards it when it came to praising God. They sought to have guidance in this life - that God can bless them in this life. No matter how or when one dies, ancient Judaism had a perspective of enjoying this life - which is why the Sadducees would be considered the "conservatives" in Jesus' time, as well. TF misses this completely, and does not take it into consideration. Furthermore, he thinks its poorly thought out. It's not. It's a lot deeper.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd The Argument does not even stop there, either. I do believe the differing perspectives of Ecclesiastes and Job with Psalms and Proverbs has a lot do with Psalms 23, as well. The main issue, really, is that TF thinks Psalms 23 is poorly thought out. He rightfully wonders why didn't anyone look back into the verse; but the answer is hidden within the culture of Judaism. If he does not want to look at it, that's his prerogative. Regardless, don't insult Christianity, then.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@vorkvoyd He is ignorant in the basis of his opinion in that regard, and misses the entire interpretation and takes none of it into consideration. He is wrong, and does not look at the text in a truly critical manner, but just appeals to emotion, but he tries to use "logic and reason" to prove his point. That isn't reality - that's a cheap knock-off of what reason and evidence entails. It's disgustingly missing the point of the literature.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
Oh god. I'm truly embarassed ur allowed to live. Im not a big TF fan but ur just truly a moron. Here's why:
1.TF chooses willingly not to put adds on his videos because he doesnt want to distract from his argument and inconvenience the audience.
2.His interpretation of the Lord is My Shepherd is based on reality whereas urs is based on childrens fiction. Sheep are herded to be eaten. Sheep are not herded just to be safe and protected.
3.urjokes put me to sleep.
Ur lucky im out of characters.
goofydog07 1 year ago
@goofydog07 Are sheep herded to be eaten is not the point of the context. You're not basing your interpretation in reality - if you did, you will grasp the historical-grammatical hermeneutics of the text, which exemplify the obvious truth that ancient Jews did NOT believe in an afterlife. The afterlife and death is irrelevant in this text, but the point is that the shepherd guides them peacefully and calmly through life, and are not the ones to harm them. You fail miserably at theology.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7 contexts are personal. You choose to believe that interpretation because the alternate doesn't suit your understanding of the bible or your god... I choose TF's because it shows just how thoughtless the metaphor really is, and that you're like a flock of sheep following your master shepherd's directions, stupidly, and thoughtlessly, even though he won't be there for you in the end.
You fail miserably at understanding knowledge.
goofydog07 1 year ago
@goofydog07 Wow - you are nearly on the verge of solipsism, bringing everything as "personal", including historical context. Whether or not you want to accept something is not the point. Why must the Bible be without history and context and must be so much so with "your understanding of the Bible". It's like a creationist saying "It's your understanding of the evidence"; does that change them from being wrong?
It's an interpretation that doesn't match history. Get over it.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
you also forgot to mention that the theology 101 class is in the dunce building. haha
aantiawp 1 year ago
it would seem there are multiple problems with religion, lol
aantiawp 1 year ago
23 dislikes=23 of Tfoot's sheep
zmode82 1 year ago
Ah Thunderf00t, funny but he seems to be more religious about his no-religion stance on things than some local youtube theists that i pay attention to such as yourself and Dawahfilm just to name few, Thundy has gone way down lately as he used to make good videos in the past, i don't mind people asking for help from their subscribers but thunder has critizied people in the past for doing so, also i think you are jelous of him be cause he has more hair than you ;)
ironhead696 1 year ago
I don't understand TF - he wants to criticisize religion (well, mainly Christianity and Islam), but most of the arguements I've heard him make are pretty shallow these days.
I mean, I don't like the idea of needing a guide, even if it's a benevolent one. People can talk about the concept of the good shepherd in a civilised manner, but what TF is doing is unproductive and I'm frankly a little embarassed he still has a large following. :P
TheCuriousWays 1 year ago
It appears you still have some demons to exorcise. You like the feel of that fence post in your ass?
holio84 1 year ago
Holio84 = pathetic troll with nothing of substance to offer.
ukchristian28 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ukchristian28 Congratulations, you have just proved yourself to be a fucking HYPOCRITE !!
holio84 1 year ago
Good response. FWIW, I'm a non-believer and I find TF's rhetoric tiresome and strident. I've never seen him as a "pillar of intellectualism". Also, I've always liked the sentiment in the 23rd psalm, even though I don't believe in supernatural beings. Thanks-
drumrnva 1 year ago
I find it funny how someone having a different opinion on say religion than you (tf) makes them "ignorant". If you watch tf's videos, you might think many a different thing about the guy, but calling him "ignorant" is .. well for a lack of a better word its ignorant on your part. He is obviously very well learned in lots of different topics and religion is one of them. You might not agree with his stances, but it doesn't mean he doesn't understand religion
Minkki82 1 year ago
Great video, I really appreciate how you're able to add something to debates like this, something that is useful for both Christians and atheists.
Lingula77 1 year ago
It should simply be the problems of religion instead of "the problem". Yesterday i had some jehovah's witness at my doorstep. Going through the many murders of babies in the bible the jehovah's witness replied that god killed them out of love. Or that they simply deserved it. How people feel the need to justify the most horrible acts, is just one of many problems with religion...
ihaveseenyounaked 1 year ago
@ymalmsteen887
really? religion has bee debunked? ok... you have fun with that.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
no 1 cares wat u think dude...ur a tool in my opinion..if no 1 can see the point of tf videos then ur as blind as religious fools.
hyams1 1 year ago
@hyams1
lol.... if you want to troll, please do it elsewhere. Take care.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago 13
@RationalRoundtable im no troll..ur a freak..i have no time for religion...it makes me sik to my stomach..the sooner we ban it for eva the better we will all be.:):) mary was raped by muslims thats y she lied bout a virgin birth....oh and jesus was gay..and he loved evry minute of it..science rules all and religion is my enemy.:) im so glad i live in england where ppl get laughed at for spouting nonsense..
hyams1 1 year ago
@hyams1 Trololololol?
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
1. He has said previously that he doesnt want to ruin educational videos with ads. Donating is different but we'll agree to disagree. He also said that making videos take a lot of hard work. Smart people agree. Ron paul first broke the record with the internet money bomb. If you believe in what he does that people easily send money without questioning it.
I was gonna comment on each point but since you were way off on first comment I'll guess there is nothing more for me to see here.
ounb 1 year ago
@ItsTheSuperFly
I really do not understand TF's line of reason here... surely he has to know that true 'free thinkers' in the atheist community such as yourself and others can see Psalm 23 for what it is.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@ymalmsteen887
no where in his video did he indicate that anything in his video was a jest, if he is 'just kidding' let him say so. But then I guess if all his commentaries are just jokes I guess that would suggest that he has no real argumentation to make and is just desperate.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
Yeah, Thunderf00t is shocking when he tries to do videos over the Bible. I have seen atheists that are more about mocking the Bible (sometimes they refer to it now as the buy-bull) then making intelligent arguments. Thunderf00t, a more intellectual atheist, ironically has managed to make some of the most outlandish and unbelievably dumb attacks on the Bible that I have seen to date. I applaud him for trying to be original, but that is the only compliment I can give him.
michael34453 1 year ago
@michael34453
Thunderf00t should stick to what he knows... You will never find me attempting to 'disprove' evolution... why? because I do not know enough about evolutionary theory to give a intelligent comment on it, besides I really have no problem with evolution in general.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable I agree, I could not make an intelligent video on science because I do not have a detailed knowledge of the subject. However, from all the educational television I watch on science, I have no reason to make videos attacking evolution either because the theory seems to have strong evidence to support it.
michael34453 1 year ago
Thanks for pointing out the actual source, friggin unreal.
It would have been hard to put out a video as good as this
HappyCabbie 1 year ago 4
@HappyCabbie
Thank you HappyCabbie, coming from you that means a lot!
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
Very enjoyable talk. You (and cabbie) have a much superior understanding of this thing to tf's. It elevates the discussion; and the psalm has never moved me more than when you read it just now.
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
@LazySundayClub
Thank you. Psalm 23 is a beautiful poem, regardless of what belief system (or lack of a belief system) one may have.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
Wonderfully done.
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@DawahFilms
Thank you DF! if you don't mind me asking, what is the Muslim position on the Psalms generally speaking?
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable
It's considered one of the divinely inspired books :)
DawahFilms 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 No, goodbye to you, pathetic little man.
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
I just watched a Brett Keane take on this and i thought he made a comment on this psalm that was far more profound than Thunderf00ts. He basically made the point, how should we view the shepherd when we know that he is also the one responsible for the wolves existence in the first place?
Ofc that doesn't alter the beauty of the passage but it is very clever, wish I had thought of it, in fact.
noelplum99 1 year ago
@noelplum99
had TF approached it from that angle at least he would have had a legitimate point.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 Oh, and one more thing, if you're thinking of making a video threatening to sue me, like you did to KeithTruth, that isn't gonna scare me either, so yeah, don't bother.
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 On an aside, I'm quite amused (and not at all surprised) at your hipocrisy. So much for the whole ' sending fellons to prison doesn't solve anything' bs, huh?
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 Intimidation tactics, really? I'm not scared of you, Treason, or Peter Joseph or Manboobs or any other member of the Zeitgeist Central Committee... fact is, I haven't done anything to you, you got nothing on me. So by all means, charge me with cyber-bullying, let's see how long it takes for the judge to laugh you out of court.
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 I do, but sometimes I just like fucking you with you, because it's fun and because you deserve it.
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
@AnglicanApologist72
I think you make a very valid point. I don't think we should forget it for the reason that he might possibly try it again. In my video concerning him I said that he needed to address the past and assure everyone that it wouldn't happen again. We should be on our guard. I was a little disapointed that he totally ignored my video. On the other hand though I am willing to give him a chance to make good.
ukchristian28 1 year ago
@voiceofreason467 All this verbal diarrhea just to say he isn't addressing the points your buddy made? If you're trying to show off as some sort of intellectual, you're failing miserably at it.
TheGoldenKing20 1 year ago
like there is only one problem with religion.
treating people like sheep is certainly in the top 5.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@AnglicanApologist72
Like teenagers who promote young earth creationism and slightly extreme Calvinism?:)
ukchristian28 1 year ago
@AnglicanApologist72
lol, ok. I would say that I think VFX has been a lot better since he returned.
ukchristian28 1 year ago
well, good living?
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314
Keep in mind that Thunderf00t only posts a video every 1-2 weeks on average. If he started posting 2-3 times a week he could easily make $30k - $50k per year with his subscriber base and general popularity.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable : but that's without benefits, a teacher gets some health insurance, vacation, sick, etc... it seems like a lot of work for the living it produces... though that experience would probably be great for someone that wanted to get into film making. I generally have criticised Thunderfoot, but he's a good editor and decent narrator... he could do science education film and probably make a decent living at it, and a five figure bonus income direct from inet wouldn't hurt.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@AnglicanApologist72
Lol, has Dhorpatan been knocked off his throne of extreme silliness by Thunderf00t?
ukchristian28 1 year ago
16 minutes is a long time to say nothing. Even with your last point you have zero points.
What the author was "trying" to express is precisely WHY this is a bad metaphor. That is the precise problem - shepherd is a bad metaphor for what the author wanted to express because of what shepherding is all about. In the end you didn't refute anything, you just complained about ThunderF00t.
fluffymcdeath 1 year ago
@fluffymcdeath
Just because you may disagree does not mean I made zero points. I correctly pointed out that TF is ether willingly ignorant or stupid when it comes to matters of theology, further I cited his own source to disprove his own interpretation of Psalm 23.
I was going to also mention his blatant misuse of the metaphor, but others (including VFX) have already done so and I did not want to make the video longer.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
"According to tradition, all of the psalms were written by King David."
This was written in the article and it is totally wrong. The Psalms were written by many different people including anonymous authors. All we know is that they are all inspired by the Holy Spirit.
AmericanWayne 1 year ago
@AmericanWayne
Fair enough, but my point about the article is that it of course provides a better interpretation of the shepherd metaphor than Thunderf00t does which of course is ironic since Thunderf00t tries to suggest that his use of the metaphor is spot on.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable I agree with your point. I just noticed that. Sorry. It was a bit off subject.
AmericanWayne 1 year ago
Pwned!!! Thunderf00t has definitely jumped the shark. :)
Recon777x 1 year ago
"Some" christians do say the dumbest things, just as some atheists, etc say dumb things.
99minerkc 1 year ago
@99minerkc
on that my friend I agree!
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
After watching the first four minutes I still haven't seen anything but mock how lame Thunderf00t is. I'm interested how he is wrong, but starting with pompous ridiculing without justification isn't the way to do it. Just wearing a hat and mocking others doesn't make you an intellectual.
Basaltq 1 year ago
@Basaltq
fair enough, yes I was a bit harsh with Thunderf00t, but quite frankly if you watch the rest of the video you should see that I am quite justified in suggesting that TF is ether deceitful, ignorant, or just plain stupid. Especially considering that he contradicts his own source.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
I read this psalm at my Grandma's funeral, so I was familiar with what it was about. I agree that Tf00t's analysis of it was sourly lacking.
GuineaPigDan 1 year ago
As I've remarked a few times with this drama, Maybe we're taking TF's vid out of context? . Me thinks he was just conveying a message, which I agree with, and misinterpretation or not, has TF ever claimed to be a biblical scholar? He got his point across didn't he? He chuckled and tossed in a Simpsons clip, can't remember the last time I've heard him pull a genuine chuckle. Ridiculous bible symbology misinterpreted or not, Slaughterhouse or no slaughterhouse they're still sheep...
Mcfly88 1 year ago
@Mcfly88
and the sheep/shepherd metaphor is still a good one. Yes you can twist it to mean something other than what it clearly means, just as you can do with almost any metaphor consider this:
Commentator: "Wow, that Michael Phelps swims like a fish!"
Thunderf00t: " So, Michael Phelps is cold blooded, has scales, fins, and can breathe under water?"
Commentator: "um... that's not what I mean."
Thunderf00t: "Oh, you mean that he would taste good baked with lemon juice?"
You get the idea.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
As an atheist, I find your videos extremely stimulating.
I would every much like to see a debate between you and Thunderf00t
vesman81 1 year ago
@vesman81
sadly that will likely never happen, he is too busy with VFX and neph.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
@RationalRoundtable
As fun as bashing low hanging fruit can be, it still leave you hungry. Thunderf00t needs to step up to the main course.
vesman81 1 year ago
BUSTED! thunderf00t. You are ruined!
randajo45 1 year ago
i just unsubbed!!
sieve417 1 year ago
@sieve417
If you were serious, then I don't think Michael (or anyone else for that matter) really cares. If not, that's not a very good jk.
jcrebel18 1 year ago
@sieve417
If you truly feel the need to unsubb that is your choice of course, but allow me to ask why?
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
Five stars for Rational Roundtable. Thumbs down for the Posterboy for Biblical Illiteracy.
OCaoimhghin 1 year ago 15
Did he say the Lord is a German Shepherd? That's just stupid. The Lord is more like Lassie, a collie.
OCaoimhghin 1 year ago
Good vid.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
There is no doubt the writers of the psalm only intended to point out god guides and protects you. But as an atheist I agree with thunderf00t that the analogy stands more truly and the flock is "protected" purely for the profit of the prophets. Churches get fat on the suffering of the people they oppress.
adolthitler 1 year ago
As a non-theist, I am always glad to see your response when anyone, theist or nontheist, gets their head on backwards. If you want some different targets to review, I can provide a list. =P
balanceseeker 1 year ago
@balanceseeker
feel free to send any requests via PM
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
One Catholic priest I know did liken his idea of the afterlife to an infant in an eternal motherly embrace. I think many people, religious and non-religious alike, have a certain romantic and idealised memory of their infant and childhood years.
wimsweden 1 year ago
Thunderf00t continues to disappoint.
SonytoBratsoni 1 year ago
Why I like you RR, is that you in fact do go against Thunderf00t. You're my only subbed channel that does that. And you do it eloquently and precise. I'm one of those atheist.
When I saw the Tf00ts video, I was sarcastic, it was that poor. I wrote. "How to get into an analogy and miss the point. Well done Tf00t."
This psalm is one of the most beautiful visions of 'faith'. "My cup runs over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life". Even I get the deeper meaing.
1<3
ContinuumXT 1 year ago
Sure, you may not become the pope's lamb chops but if your religious leaders are Peter Popoff or Benny Hinn you will be getting fleeced.
Just because you choose to see the metaphor from one angle doesn't mean the metaphor is free from suggesting unintended meanings. That is the problem with metaphors.
zarkoff45 1 year ago
@zarkoff45 took the thoughts right out of my head
Mcfly88 1 year ago
@zarkoff45
except that the point of TF's video was that his interpretation was the BEST possible interpretation when it is obvious that what he suggested is not what was meant. If he said soemthing like:
"Christians and Jews see God as a protector, but when I read this verse I think of lambs being led to slaughter..."
I would have less of a problem... I would still disagree but he would be stating a valid opinion.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
I'll be honest, RR, there seems to be some at least near-ad hominem...and more than usual. ._.
Audiofalcon7 1 year ago
@Audiofalcon7
agreed... I am a little more aggressive in this than normal, but quite frankly the level of ignorance of even basic layman's theology here is so astounding that I have to call into question TF's motives or intelligence.
RationalRoundtable 1 year ago
For the record, I did "thumb up" TF's video, based solely on the fact that I've disliked that Psalm for a while for other reasons. I'd prefer to think in (wolf) pack terms instead of flock mentality (roughly speaking); members look after and protect each other rather than having a sheppard.
That said, it was a mistake to like a video with poor arguments simply because I dislike the psalm for other reasons, and this is excellent rebuttal of the faults in the video.
firefly4f4 1 year ago 2
@firefly4f4 Yea I feel the same. I didn't thumbs up Tf00t's vid because... well... because he's a twunt. But I did thumbs down this video because it's just too supportive of something which anyone with half a brain can see is wishy washy, sentimental crap that sounds good when you say it in a profound manner, but is actually a load of arrant pap.
CuriousMoth 1 year ago