9/11 Conspiracy Theories - P.11f Twin Towers Contolled Demo?

[lukepevensie]

the FBI confiscated all tapes from the cameras near pentagon that's why there are very few clips

[911NeverForget]

and yet all those tapes that were unreleased have turned out to have nothing.

the clips released were the only ones to capture the impact.

[911NeverForget]

i dont doubt it.

[911NeverForget]

and what to expect is the outside job to hold up.

[911NeverForget]

"...hits" no they werent. they were only built to withstand a 707. that was the biggest plane during the time they were built.

"...point" they didnt need to melt to weaken the steel.

"...9/11" not proven.

"...demolitions." biased assumption.

"...ignored." funny, you guys ignore anything that disproves it.

"so..." no there werent so many cameras. only the clips released already caught the impact.

[gremlinscout]

Even the most carefully planned and executed demo's have tilting, Its done to shift weight onto different areas of the steel infrastructure to cause buckling, therefore producing an inward collapse more efficiently, These videos are obvious disinformation. And did I mention your an idiot.

[911NeverForget]

"efficiently" does that tilting BUCKLE though, as seen in the South Tower collapse? thats the entire building your talking about. this is only a portion of it.

"These videos are obvious disinformation. And did I mention your an idiot." not disinfo, just vids. oh, thanks for telling me im doing a good job.

[RawVegan0]

Watch the videos

911 MYSTERIES, 911 TABOO, LOOSE CHANGE, SEPTEMBER CLUES

they all prove the WTC were demolished using explosives

[ArbeitMachtFreiUSA]

OBSERVE *how much time* the LYING SHILLS spend "debunking" (they'd like to think) the clear and obvious fact 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB.

You will QUICKLY REALIZE that THE 9/11 COVERUP IS IN PROGRESS when there is SO MUCH EFFORT and so much of it is OUTRIGHT LIES AND DISINFORMATION. It looks like Karl Rove stays pretty busy managing his band of right-wing flying monkeys for Bush.

Could be part of why Rove left the White House, to devote more time to propping up the coverup.

[911NeverForget]

creating different accounts show how idiotic you are.

[macdowell423]

...Holland,Humber,Jenkins,Jone­s,Kaplan, Keating,Kovalcin, Larocque, Larson, Larson, Lasden, Lee, Lewin, MacKay, Mello, Mladenik, Montoya, Montoya, Morabito, Naiman, Neira, Newell, Norton, Norton, Orth, Pecorelli,Puopolo, Retik, Rosenzweig, Ros, Sachs, Salie,Smith, Stone, Suarez, Theodoridis, Trentini, Trentini, Wahlstrom, Waldie, Wenckus, Williams, Zarba. End of list. No hijacker names included.

[911NeverForget]

76 passengers + 11 crew members = 87 people on board. (HOWEVER, there was 92 people on board. there were 5 extra hijackers. that makes 92.) the lists DO NOT include the hijackers!

SOURCE:

cnn(dot)com/SPECIALS/2001/trad­e(dot)center/victims/AA11(dot)­victims(dot)html

[macdowell423]

So we agree. The manifests do not include the hijackers. If they were passengers on those flights, they would have been listed. They were not. There is NO evidence, only conjecture, to say that 5 more people than those officially listed were on the plane(s).

[911NeverForget]

we all know who the hijackers were. we know who was on each plane. there was no need to put them on the list. the proof that it was them as the 5 people missing is this: each hijacker team, excluding the F93 team, had 5 hijackers. they are the only ones missing from the list. every name you have stated is on the list. all the crew members are on the list. only the hijackers could be missing.

[macdowell423]

Quite strange don't you think. We all "know" who was on each plane? How do we "know" it? Because the FBI told you? Where's the evidence?

A passenger is a passenger. Whether they are later accused of wrongdoing does not negate their status as a passenger.

[911NeverForget]

passenger lists, human remains, and pieces of ID cards.

[macdowell423]

Funny, so you're saying a paper passenger list was on the flight and survived the destruction? AND you're saying that pieces of ID cards survived, but huge wings, heavy steel engines, seats and the tail fin did NOT survive?

[911NeverForget]

no. evidence from AND AFTER 9/11. they DID survive, but just didnt survive without breaking into smaller pieces.

[macdowell423]

Go to twa800(dot)com and look at the photos of how an investigation of an airline disaster is handled. The feds recover every piece of the plane they can find and reassemble it to do forensic examination. They even take pictures of that process to ensure the public they are doing all they can. No desire to do that after 9/11. No investigation was even initiated until late 2002!!! If your dad died that day, wouldn't you be pissed?

[911NeverForget]

yes, but not a PO'ed as the others. the plane DID land in a swamp after all.

[macdowell423]

Last names on manifest of Flt 11 as reported by AP/CNN/Guardian...Allsion,Ange­ll,Angell, Aoyama, Aronson, Barbuto, Berenson, Beug, Bouchard, Caplin,Casey,Coombs,Creamer,Cu­ccinello,Currivan,Green,Dale,D­iMeglio,Ditullio,Dominguez,Fil­ipov,Flyzik,Friedman,Fyfe,Gay,­George,Glazer,Gordenstein,Hack­el,Hashem,Hayes,Hennessy,Hofer­...

[macdowell423]

Compare the entry holes in these 2 pictures. The WTC picture shows how the wings cut through the walls of the bldg. But in the Pentagon pict taken before the wall collapsed, you can see the intact walls with some windows not damaged. Can you prove it was not a missile? thewebfairy dot com /nerdcities / Hufschmid /eh29 dot jpg

[911NeverForget]

one wing came off because the plane was tilted at an angle. you CAN see marks from the wings, but it takes a good eye to do so.

[macdowell423]

No wing came off. If it had, we would have ALL seen that wing. And with all the pics avail of that field, it does not take a good eye to see that the grass has almost no damage at all. Furthermore, if a wing had bounced along the lawn, it would be visible in the security video.

[911NeverForget]

yes it did. there WERE people who saw it. remember that most people who saw the plane were on the road. the plane was traveling too fast to see the wing come off. the plane was also too far for those on the road when the wing came off. since when did it end up in the grass? you're assuming that. more of a CTists state of denial.

[macdowell423]

So if the wing did not come off from hitting the ground, nor from hitting the bldg, how did it come off?

Certainly some journalists would have taken pictures of this wing on the ground somewhere!

[911NeverForget]

the left wing struck a generator before breaking off when the plane hit the building. its so fragile that it breaks into little pieces. the right wing continues to move when it breaks off as well, ALSO breaking into smaller pieces. (also likely from hitting the building.)

so, technically the wings are there. they've just been converted into smaller pieces.

[macdowell423]

I've never heard this theory. Is this your own? Where was this generator? On a telephone pole or on the building?

[911NeverForget]

no. in fact, its fairly popular. it was on the ground nearby.

heres a picture:

pentagonresearch(dot)com/image­s/082(dot)jpg

[macdowell423]

Yes, I have seen this generator. It is burned from the fire, but where is the evidence of an airplane wing?

The attack didn't happen long before this picture.

Smoke still in the air, chain link fence still standing. If there was a wing that hit here, why didn't the authorities reconstruct the remnants of it for forensics?

[911NeverForget]

i thought i mentioned that?

[911NeverForget]

wait...you said that you wanted to know where it was. know you're saying that you've seen it.

you simply changed your claim. even more CTist behavior.

[macdowell423]

You don't find it the least bit strange that one passport of an accused hijacker was found intact on the ground in NYC, even though all contents of those buildings were reduced to fine particles and most bodies could not be identified?

[911NeverForget]

no. in fact, i find it helpful. actually, there were many bone fragments and shoes at Ground Zero.

[macdowell423]

Certainly there were bone fragments and shoes at ground zero, but that does not tell us how the buildings fell, who flew planes, which planes they were, or how the CIA could identify names of people who were not on the passenger lists.

[911NeverForget]

they were on the passenger lists. you really havent proved that to me anyway.

[macdowell423]

Flight 11 -- edition doc cnn dot com /specials/2001/trade doct center / victims / aa11 doc victims dot html

[macdowell423]

Look at this picture of the Pentagon w/entry hole, before the facade collapsed. Small hole, windows near the hole not broken - no plane parts outside the bldg. Where did the wings go? asile dot org / citoyens / numero13 / pentagone / images / facade-intacte-hte-def1 dot jpg

[WashDCDemocrat]

Your comments are spam. They have been marked as such.

[macdowell423]

Having a conversation with you is not spam. If you're not interested in debating the issue, you should not have started the conversation.

[macdowell423]

On 9/13/01, the Guardian Newspaper reported the passenger lists of the 4 flights. To see them go to guardian dot co dot uk slash wtccrash slash story slash 0,1300,551425,00 dot html  Since none of the accussed hijackers are listed, I look forward to your comments.

[911NeverForget]

they are simply mistaken IDs.

[macdowell423]

What are mistaken IDs?

[911NeverForget]

mistaken identities.

[macdowell423]

Whose identities are mistaken?

[911NeverForget]

the hijackers.

[macdowell423]

Noone has ever explained why the people named as hijackers had their passports with them, bought one way tickets, and even were seen on airport security before boarding flights, and yet their names were not on the passenger lists. Can you explain it?

[911NeverForget]

they were on the passenger lists. how do you think we know where they sat? how do you think we figured out their IDs?

they HAVE to bring their passports with them to do things such as buy ticket, and board a plane. you have to show them, because there are requirements to have on your passport before you can travel to a specific country.

[macdowell423]

I sent you one of the 4 passenger lists, and the other 3 were also in that same link. You saw for yourself that their names were not on the passenger lists.

[911NeverForget]

i still have not recieved them yet.

[macdowell423]

See the link below about "webfairy", and you'll see the comparison photos.

[911NeverForget]

i have been on WebFairy.

[macdowell423]

Well, It's quite clear I'm winning this debate. You have provided no evidence to counter the evidence I've presented. In all your research to support the govt's theory, have you read David Ray Griffin's books?

[911NeverForget]

what evidence? you presented nothing. if you presented it, i wouldve likely countered it.

yes, i have read them.

[macdowell423]

Very clearly, the government's conspiracy theory that 19 guys (6 of whom are still alive) were sent by a man in a cave to use boxcutters and successfully defeated the world's best defensive capabilities, is ludicrous.

Read Debunking 9/11 Debunking by David Ray Griffin.

[911NeverForget]

proof that they're still alive?

[911CommissionCoverup]

Who are you going to believe?

A) A few LYING right-wing losers like the author of this video who go to AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK trying to maintain the 9/11 coverup to protect the real mass murderers?

B) HUNDREDS of professional architects, engineers, physicists and other scientists, pilots, and educated people of all types, NOW including 7 CIA veterans! See my profile for details...

LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN!

[911NeverForget]

8th time: quit posting the same crap on every one of my videos.

[macdowell423]

Do you have proof that even ONE of the "hijackers" was on board one of those flights? None of their names are on the passenger lists, and none of their names appear on the corroners' lists either.

[911NeverForget]

none of their names were on the passengers lists or corroners' lists? i doubt you're telling the truth. how do you think they were able to identify them?

[macdowell423]

They never WERE identified by coroners. The govt claimed on 9/12 that they knew the names of all the hijackers, but no bodies had been identified yet. So you tell me... I have researched this and have seen photo copies of the passenger lists from all 4 flights and also some of the coroners lists, and not one single name of those guys is listed.

[911NeverForget]

it was the day AFTER 9/11. they're not going to find their bodies the next day. remember how much debris was on Ground Zero. there was a lot to look at the Pentagon, and even at Shanksville.

[macdowell423]

Exactly! No bodies to identify yet, no names on the passenger lists, and yet, the govt somehow magically could tell us for CERTAIN - who carried out these attacks. I don't even know of professional detectives who can pull off that stunt!

[911NeverForget]

you have yet to prove that there were no names on the passenger lists.

[macdowell423]

I've sent you links to all passenger lists, as you know, but they are not appearing on youtube. Why are you deleting them? Don't you want to know the truth?

[911NeverForget]

im not deleting them. you havent even sent me a damn thing. yet again, you're making crap up.

[macdowell423]

How much does the govt pay you to do this?

[911NeverForget]

none. if i havent yet, im adding you to the list of CTists who are so paranoid that they are convinced that anyone who disagrees with them HAS to be a shill.

[macdowell423]

Actually at Shanksville, I know of one coroner who left the scene after only 15 minutes, because there was no debris or bodies to be found. As Rumsfeld said in 2 speeches, that plane was shot down, it did not crash into a field, and that is why there were no plane parts in that field they showed us on TV.

[911NeverForget]

again, you state things without evidence. there's MANY pictures of F93 debris. theres pictures of the black boxes too.

[macdowell423]

I haven't seen any evidence from you either in these little tiny spaces on youtube. But I'll give you links so you can see yourself. Stay tuned.

[911NeverForget]

i HAVE uploaded a video or mine showing pictures of F93 debris, including pictures of the black boxes. in the video info box of my F11 Betty Ong video, theres links about the black boxes there.

[macdowell423]

Your decision to not show all the links I've sent you proves you are a fraud.

[macdowell423]

Actually at Shanksville, I know of one coroner who left the scene after only 15 minutes, because there was no debris or bodies to be found. As Rumsfeld said in 2 speeches, that plane was shot down, it did not crash into a field, and that is why there were no plane parts in that field they showed us on TV.

[911NeverForget]

you simply repeated yourself.

[WashDCDemocrat]

GOOD JOB MAN! And to all conspiracy-supporters: GO HOME! You're wasting your time!

[911NeverForget]

thanks. :)

[macdowell423]

The conspiracy theory is that 19 guys with boxcutters did this, and that ALL four planes vaporized into thin air, and for the first time in world history, a steel frame building was supposedly destroyed by fire.

[WashDCDemocrat]

Not just fire. The outer steel frame of te buildings took a big hit from the jet aircraft.

[macdowell423]

So did the Empire State building when a 707 crashed into it, but it didn't collapse. Rather than just reiterating the 9/11 commission propaganda, written by Philip Zelikow, an historian with close political ties to the Bush family, who also wrote in 1998 that this country needed a Pearl Harbor type event so that govt could dramatically curtail human rights, and look at the actual facts.

[WashDCDemocrat]

Emp State was not built the same way. The Emp State was not the World Trade Center. You have to remember that this was the first time in world istory that aircraft were used as missiles. We have no point of reference.

[macdowell423]

It's not the first time that aircraft were used as missiles, not by a long shot. Throughout WWII, japanese flew planes as missiles, called kamikaze. The 707 that his the Emp State was a missile. For just a moment, remove your a priori assumption that Americans cannot perform heinous acts, and then look at the video evidence still available to us, and ask, is there absolute certainty that the govt's theory is perfect?

[WashDCDemocrat]

I am very familiar with Divine Wind. As for the bomber that hit the Emp State, I already said that the building was constructed differently, and was not planning to hit the Emp State. A missile is a "self-propelled, explosive projectile used as a weapon towards a target". The plane that hit Emp State was not used as a weapon.

[macdowell423]

Symantics - the intention is not the key. The skyscraper was hit with a plane, which was the same as a missile hitting the building, right? Just like the missile that we see in the surveillance video hitting the pentagon and creating a hole two small for a 767 to enter.

[WashDCDemocrat]

Think about it this way. If you are trying to hit a building with your plane, you will hit it dead center, and kind of low. An accident would have made it less likely to hit the building dead center. As for the Pentagon, a wing of the plane struck the ground, the other was ripped off. Only the body of the plane was left./ And how do you know it was too small? Have you seen it yourself? No, you didn't. Pictures aren't enough.

[macdowell423]

The statement of "have you seen it yourself?" is immature. Have you? Of course not. But you also haven't seen any evidence from video or still photos of a wing hitting the ground. Nor have you or anyone else seen parts of a wing. If the wings were "ripped off" the body of the plane when it hit the bldg, then there would have been damage to the bldg. But not even windows are broken right next to the entry hole.

[WashDCDemocrat]

I live in DC. Don't respond until you've looked over all of the facts. I live just outside of DC. I could've easily hopped on the Metrorail, gotten off at the Pentagon, and seen the damage. Even later, I could still get a firsthand look at the size of the building and compare that to the size of the hole.

[macdowell423]

You live in DC, but you didn't go to the Pentagon, so you're trying to claim that because of the location or your residence you somehow are able to more accurately know who is responsible for the attack on the Pentagon? Curious. The size of the hole is simply not large enough for the plane fuselage AND wings to fit into it. The wings are not outside the bldg, and no plane parts were ever reassembled for forensic investigation. Why not?

[macdowell423]

WashDCDem, since you are interested in law enforcement, then it would make sense that you would support a legal (not political) and forensic investigation of what happened so that the people responsible could be prosecuted appropriately. Do you support a thorough investigation by detectives who are experts in solving crimes?

[WashDCDemocrat]

Yes. Isn't that what the 9/11 Commission Report was? A thorough investigation. An impartial source would be nice, however.

[macdowell423]

No the 9/11 Commision Report was not a thorough investigation, but a report written by Philip Zelikow, an historian who would not allow hardly any discussion of any evidence that conflicted with the govt's explanation. For example, he never inquired as to why Rumsfeld said the plane over PA was shot down. He never required a forensic study of the material from WTC, nor questioned why it was all shipped to China and melted down.

[WashDCDemocrat]

Just like a CTist. You fail to go against all parts of my comment. You didn't read my second comment. I said "An impartial source would be nice, though".

[macdowell423]

"Just like a CTist" - Fact you and I both believe in opposing conspiracy theories on this issue. "all parts of my comment" - sorry I missed that. "An impartial source" - yes you are on point there in acknowledging that all testimony and evidence must be evaluated, before drawing conclusions as to who orchestrated those attacks. Now, it's your turn to respond to my question - can you prove it was not a missile?

[WashDCDemocrat]

Something with wings, a a painted blue underside, a grey topside, and engines attached to the winds is not a cruise missile.

[WashDCDemocrat]

"Wings", not "winds". Sorry.

[macdowell423]

How in the world can you see the underside of that projectile in the only footage the govt will let us see? that's simply impossible. You also can't see wings or engines. Look at Judicial Watch video TAaP4Z3zls8. The pic I sent you before shows the size of plane compared to the hole. THe plane could not have fit into the hole. Maybe it's a Douglas A3 skywarrior.

[911NeverForget]

eyewitnesses.

[macdowell423]

You were an eyewitness? What about the eyewitnesses who said they saw a small white airplane, or what looked like a missile. We have video and written statements from those people on the record, but they were not considered by Zelikow.

[WashDCDemocrat]

Saw an image on national TV. Blown-up to show detail. A person from the United Air Lines Corporation stated that when he saw the still, he could "immediately tell that" the aircraft was from United. To further counter your completely absurd claim, why are all of the people on the hijacked planes dead? The government didn't find them and kill them, I'll tell you that right now, because some people missed their flights.

[WashDCDemocrat]

The government would want to kill EVERYONE with a boarding pass, not most of the people with a boarding pass.

[macdowell423]

Neither you nor I can say for certainty whether those named as hijackers were killed on 9/11, or before, or after, or are still alive. But we do know for certainty that their names were NOT on the manifests.

[WashDCDemocrat]

What, do you have it in your pocket? No? I didn't think so. And how do you counter the plane argument? You CAN'T, CAN YOU?

[macdowell423]

There's no evidence of a plane at the Pentagon. A small engine, no wheels, no lane seats, no wings, no tail fin, small entry hole, no photos conclusively showing a plane in the air, and yet the govt refuses to release the video footage from nearby security cameras. What are they afraid of? It would be quite simple to show the pictures sometime in the last SIX YEARS, and solve any disputes!

[WashDCDemocrat]

The hole at the Pentagon is roughly 16 feet across.

A) No Cessna could've made that hole

B) The body of the plane that struck the Pentagon was a little over 12 feet in diameter.

[macdowell423]

That's right. Roughly 16 feet across, big enough for a fuselage of a plane or missile, but not big enough for the tail fin, wings or engines. IF it was a plane, where did the plane parts go? Wings, luggage, seats, etc.?

[WashDCDemocrat]

We've explained this before. The left wing struck the ground; the other struck the wall. Both faintly indented the building and broke into pieces. The rest did not survive the fire (as if someone could expect it to).

[911NeverForget]

you're assuming he got that from the video? apparently, you didnt hear the fact that he lives in DC.

[911NeverForget]

the entire planes didnt vaporize. it wasnt just fire. the plane impacts were big blows too.

that were many firsts that occured that day. CTists need to quit focusing on one or a few of them.

[macdowell423]

I hope you understand that you are a conspiracy theorist when you accept that something happened based on what people say (Cheney, Bush in this case) rather than on what the facts are. At the very least, you should demand a real legal investigation into what happened, rather than take the govt at it's word. It surprises me how easily people are quick to accuse those they don't know and can identify as "evil".

[911NeverForget]

that statement is by far the most hilarious ive ever read. im not a CTist. more proof that CTists like to switch things around.

[macdowell423]

No switching going on, just the facts. A "conspiracy" is defined as "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful". Cheney, Bush and Rummy claim that 19 men conspired with Osama Bin Laden to take over the US military defensive capabilities and destroy the WTC and Pentagon. That is simply, by definition, a conspiracy.

[911NeverForget]

theres no facts on your side.

you simply changed the subject from "you're a CTist," to "heres what a conspiracy means."

more typical CTist behavior.

[macdowell423]

whatreallyhappened dot com slash hijackers

[macdowell423]

neverknwo dot gnn dot tv slash blogs slash 11459 slash fox _ news _ live _ reports _ 9 _ 11 _ No _ plane _ debris _ at _ flight _ 93 _ crash _ site _ video

note: spelling is correct "neverknwo"

[911NeverForget]

ill check those out in a few hours. im logging in for the first time today, and looking at everything that occured during the night.