Contemplative Prayer-WorldView Matters Brannon Howse Pt. 1

[TheKith88]

contemplative prayer is not biblical, it was introduced by 3 monks in 1977 to the catholic church and is a pagan eastern practiced Religion.

[mercysmith]

There are different methodologies for contemplative prayer. She does not describe what I experienced, but my experience does say - turn away from this pagan practice and turn toward the example Jesus gave us- immediately. She is right about familiar spirits. Jesus wants a personal relationship - talk to Him. He is listening and He loves you. It is not complicated.

[Mick77]

This lady is the one who is dangerous. She has no idea of Contemplative Prayer, its methodology, and its purpose. It is a sad but true reality that so many so-called Christians think they know what they are talking about, but actually have no clue. It is this very sort of thing that is driving so many people away from Christianity. If Jesus heard this lady speak, he would surely weep.

[bibleguy45]

As an ex Catholic monk who practiced this I can tell you, this is NOT scriptural Christian prayer. This is eastern paganism which will lead one to demonic possession.

[missionoc]

This is Hindu-mantra praying, a new age concept, opening for demons!

[john146only]

You are right on the money. I just read a great book by Caryl Matriciano, "Out of India". What a great book. Not only does it call a spade a spade, but in the wrap up, it provokes people to seeing the bigger picture of how this model of prayer is being used to unite the religions. It also will discard the "old bad" Christianity model and replace it with a "new inclusive Christianity" complete with a new gospel, a new Jesus, a new body of Christ. Things that Revelation & Daniel said would come

[crystalship42]

I know, as you said you had been "THOUGH" or teach to do things. I perfectly understand.

[crystalship42]

Ohh...Something about prayer: An occidental man came to the master and ask him. What is a miracle? The master replied: In Occident a miracle is when God do the will of a man asked in prayer. In Orient, a miracle is a man doing the will of God. I learned this from a non christian. Let me think how much we received from God. And with how little we respond to Him. Let's work then. Be blessed. :-)

[KarensFaith]

I have always believed in prayer that when we ask for something we should ask if it be God's will, because sometimes what we want is not what God wants for us and I pray that His will be done, not mine. I have always prayed that way, that is how I was taught. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and no other. It's all about Him and His will, not us and our will. We must decrease and He must increase. :)

In His Unfailing Love,

Karen

[crystalship42]

Karen...I got here because of this. Christian Contemplative Prayer is not and never will be "NEW AGE".Is a very "superficial,poor non-objective,elemetal argument. Like saying (this 2 birds are equal because both have feathers). I have friends in Raiki, New Age Movement. God gave me the opportunity to listen to,learn,compare and get into conclusions. That is why I can't accept this. I apologize in getting in all this words with you. But this is also part of posting a video. To make comments.

[KarensFaith]

And I don't mind your making comments, I am well aware of what goes with making videos. You didn't answer my questions though. We may have to agree to just disagree.

[john146only]

Anyone who wants to fully understand this topic needs to read "A Time of Departing" By Ray Yungen avail at lighhousetrails. com or org in Silverton, OR and anything by Warren Smith through same publisher. Yungen really looks at the roots of the Catholic pagan monks who went East to study how other religons got to "god" and brought back their meditation with them. The Emergents love this as it is all based on "experience" .

[crystalship42]

Let me just put this then in this way. Is impossible to talk about something that you don't know. I have friends in Reiki and New Age Movement that I love a lot. We sometimes share our points of view in an objective way. Christian Contemplation "IS NOT NEW AGE". They're judging 2 concepts so different from each other. Just because looks similar,then is bad or "satanic." How they can judge so easy something like this?. I understand what you are talking about, really, I do.

[KarensFaith]

Have you tested the spirits about this? I mean, comparing it to Scripture? Is this in Scripture? It is more than just similar, it is the same. I don't remember ever reading about Jesus or the Apostles using contemplative prayer. :)

[john146only]

Peter tells us to be sober minded and aware, and there are so many specific things to be mindful in prayer like thanksgiving and such, that you don't really have the abiblity to shut down your mind for this practice.

[john146only]

One common stream of thought that the Thomas Mertins and so many others who popularze this and bring in more catholic forms of "worship" recommend that all the religons use their own form of this type of meditation-prayer and we unite on the basis of those experiences. Sounds familiar, like I may have read of something like that happening one day. Rev 17

[crystalship42]

I think I have to leave. This is the moment. I think,we are just trying to expose ourselves. And I don't like to make a mistake of "vanity" or "selfishness." Those are the real demons. We don't like to give them space here, we agree? After all, God don't need this. I still with my point of view, you still with yours. Be blessed. At the end, will be just about "mercy and love" with or without "breathings"...:-)

[KarensFaith]

I am not being selfish or vain by telling you my beliefs and not agreeing with yours, but I do agree, we are going around in circles. I do believe that Scripture is God breathed...wanted to make that clear...and it does not say anywhere that I can find in it that we are to pray with contemplative prayer as is mentioned in the video. Jesus taught us to pray and I feel that He wouldn't have shown us this way if He wanted us to do it another way.

God bless!

Grace and peace,

Karen

[crystalship42]

How we can have mercy with people or tolerance or respect if we don't see with our eyes how God's loves people and in that way we supoused to love and see,respect other people?. We are not God, I know. How you wish to live the Gospel if that Gospel is God's heart open telling us..."Read,this is the way you have to live the Gospel". In the same way. Didn't say in the way that we think. In the same way that God loved us. There is nothing can measure this words. In the same Trinitarian Love.

[KarensFaith]

God's ways are not our ways.

Isaiah 55:8-9

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Romans 11:33

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!"

[KarensFaith]

But we are to obey Him, walk in His ways and fear and respect Him.

Deuteronomy 8:6

"So you shall keep the commandments of the LORD your God by walking in his ways and by fearing him."

And He has given us the means to do this through His Holy Word and through His Son.

[crystalship42]

I still atonished with how poor perception concerning to prayer some people have. Karen, is not personal. Who can lives if the love of God don't sustain his/hers life? And because God sustain your life with love. My position is to respect and accept you and love you even when we have differences. I still alive because of the same God that you have. Great isn't it?. Thanks for having the patience to answer my questions in a good faith. Wish one day we can share something in common.:-)

[KarensFaith]

I know it's not personal, we just don't agree here. I approach God in an entirely different way than you do, and God sustains me. I try to die to self daily and live for Him. He is always faithful to me even when I am not faithful to Him. It's not always easy, but it is worth it. God bless!

[crystalship42]

I don't used to get into controversies when God is the main point. He don't need "lawyers." Because we will never understand a greathness that God is in this eggshell mind. The Bible, compare of Who really God is..."just a couple of breathings" as valid as Himself...Yes, but just a minimum perception of Who really He is. You will not survive if you can see God in all His glory. The Bible is valid,but is not God's cage.

[KarensFaith]

Now here, I do agree with you somewhat. I even said something similar in my post. I never said the Bible was God's cage, though. He gave us His Word and we are to follow it and not go off on some new idea that He did not even put in His holy Word. I don't see contemplative prayer as described by you or those in the video mentioned anywhere in Scripture for us to practice. We are to fill our minds with His Word, with His teachings and His ways and not our own.

[crystalship42]

Silence is made to avoid going to the Presence of God with pre-meditated intentions. You quiet yourself of your own,so you can give God a chance to speak to your heart. Emptiness in contemplation is "figurative" is going to prayer with empty hands, so God can fills your needs,recognizing that you're a creature and He is your God. Is a very intimate kind of prayer and that is why most of the people don't understand and misundertandings raises.

[john146only]

God speaks through his word.

[crystalship42]

Contemplation is having your heart and your mind so inmerse in the Presence of God that everything that you do is with a highest counscienness that you can glorify God in every circumstances no matter how difficult or negative it looks. You can find God everywhere,in anything and in everyone. Because you learn to see with the eyes of God and feel from the Heart of God. So, everything is transform in grace. There's not going to be an "empty" mind. A mind with all senses open to the grace of God.

[KarensFaith]

I don't agree. I don't presume to think that I will ever have the mind of God because His ways are unfathomable. He is God! He is above all things. He is not our buddy, He is not our magic genie who grants our every wish, He is not Someone we can manipulate, He is a Holy God! He is to be reverenced, worshiped and adored, and most of all, obeyed. And He does not instruct us to pray this way. We are to come to Him in humbleness, respect and awe.

[KarensFaith]

We humans can never be or see or think like God. We are not gods ourselves. We are His Creation. And we need to remember that when you approach God you are on holy ground. If you saw God you would die because you could not bear His glory. That is our God. He is awesome, powerful, mighty, and glorious! He is pure, holy and just! And He has shown us how to pray in the Bible. Jesus gave us an example and it wasn't mystical like contemplative prayer is. I will follow His way.

[john146only]

"Jesus gave us an example and it wasn't mystical like contemplative prayer is."

That really is the heart of the matter isn't it. People don't realize that the only door way you can get through is the cross and if you try to go another way, even if it LOOKS good like a form of "prayer", you could encounter deception. Avoid the mystical like many of the Emergents run head long into. Rob Bell, so many names out there popularize this stuff.

[john146only]

Do all religons contain Truth, crystal? In your estimation, that is..

[crystalship42]

KarensFaith...There is a lot of people saying they are preaching the Gospel...Of course, with their own perception of what is the real truth. That is your idea as you said the "ideal" thing, but the real thing is that you can't put all human minds in a box...In the same way that we can put Who is really God, just only in a few books callled Bible. The Bible is just only a a couple of breathings from God. And because of His Mercy, we received this, just to have a "notion" of posibly Who is God.

[KarensFaith]

crystalship42, Preaching the Gospel is pure if you are taking it directly from Scripture, not adding anything to it or deleting anything either. I know who God is, I know who my Savior is, just by reading His Word consistently and obeying it. I fail sometimes, ok, a lot of times, but I repent and try again. The Bible to me is more than "just only a couple of breathings from God." It is His truths, His directions for how we are to live our lives and serve Him, it is life!

CONTINUED

[KarensFaith]

I know that God is holy, just, pure, loving and that He is also a God of wrath and judgment. I also know that He said, 'Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?"' (Romans 11:33-34).

[crystalship42]

I don't like to point any religion. With all respect. I don't like to judge ways. I enjoy diversity,because we can't put an entire humankind mind in one "idea." There are a lot of ideas, but just one God. My point of view is there are not making a difference between New Age and Christian Contemplative Prayer. Those two concepts are very different from each other. I think this is not being objective or well informed. And can be irresponsible if no one point at this. My opinion.

[KarensFaith]

With all respect, we are to call a false religion false if it is one so that others won't be led astray. The one "idea" as you call it, is this, we must preach the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ without gimmicks or tricks like contemplative prayer, and other mystical practices. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you so we'll have to agree to disagree. If anything even remotely smells like the occult, the best thing to do is avoid it. God is there when we do it His way, Satan is there if we don't.

[crystalship42]

You can read His Words. That means that God can't speak to your soul and teach you through His Holy Spirit? How you can discern what can be from God and what can be from yourself voices if you don't quiet your mind and your heart from your own.? And disturb in prayer. More disturb can be prayer with your inner noises,than with the expterior. You can be in a traffic jam and even there feel the Presence of God. Everything is Grace when you learn to see your exterior from the eyes of God.

[KarensFaith]

Yes, He can but not if you're sitting there zoned out of your mind because it's empty. When you begin contemplative prayer you are told to concentrate on your breathing. Why? Why are you then told to repeat a word over and over again while you are concentrating on your breathing? Because the enemy knows that this will self hypnotize you and then open you up for his purposes and God is totally out of the picture by then. This is how I pray...

Continued

[KarensFaith]

This is how I pray and I'm not saying my way is the only way. I go to my room where I am alone and I just start out by praising God and thanking Him for His blessings (I list them all), then bring my requests to Him, and just talk to Him and asking for His guidance and then I ask for His will to be made known to me in things and for His will to be done.

[KarensFaith]

Then I read my Bible and pray, and I pray on and off again all day, whether or not I am doing something else, like driving or cooking or cleaning. I am aware of my surroundings and I am aware of God, and I do feel Him.

[crystalship42]

Which is the big deal, if you have the Word of God in your heart, in your mind and you are trying to live your life in accordance to this Word, why so scare to repeat it with your mouth if It is an unison with your heart? After all is what you're trying to live.

[KarensFaith]

I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is this, we are not to pray in vain repitition, i.e., babbling. We should not try and seek honor for ourselves in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 ESV-

And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words."

I know that worship can repeat something like "Holy, holy, holy" but do it for God's glory not our own as those talked about in the video do. This is what I am saying.

[KarensFaith]

The Catholics repeat rosaries and prayers, as do many other false religions. We glorify God with the way we live, by obeying Him we can do this all the time. I don't know if you pray like they are talking about in the video or not, but concentrating on breathing and repeating a phrase over and over until you are receptive to whatever the enemy wants to put into your mind. This practice is dangerous and it is forbidden. Praying sincerely and talking to God should be reasonable and have purpose.

[KarensFaith]

It should not be empty, hollow words....I'm not saying this is what you do, this is what they are talking about in the video...we are to be aware of Who we are talking to when we pray. I don't see how you can do that if you empty your mind.

[crystalship42]

But we are repetitive in prayer...of course we are...The Angels in Heaven are singing Santus,Santus,Santus. Halleluia, Halleluia!!!Glory to God in the Highest. To raise your hands and glorify God. All christians do. When you are a contemplative. Time in a quiet place is important for prayer. But you learn to glorify God anytime in every act of your life.

[crystalship42]

Christian contemplative prayer takes you to be in such consciousness of the Presence of God in every...every single breath you make. In all circumstances of your life. You learn to be more aware of the action of God everywhere and in everyone in any moment,that you will transform your life in a "living prayer." To empty your mind of "your" things, to be fill with God things. How you can hear God's Words, if you are full of yourself.? I hope christians can be more intelligent than this.

[KarensFaith]

I'm not so sure. Concentrating on breathing and emptying your mind can put you in a state of self hypnosis, which can easily open you up to the occult. We don't empty our minds to hear His Words, we read His Words to fill our minds with them.

[crystalship42]

Also in christian prayer, you have to empty your mind of "distractions" or things that can disconnect your mind of the objective to communicate with God,(that is prayer for). That is the difference. I think, this can't be a way of a big misunderstanding between New Age and Christian contemlative prayer. You can repeat a verses from Psalms.

[KarensFaith]

In prayer, you go to a quiet place, yes, so you won't be disturbed and you talk to God. We are told not to be repetitive in prayer so I don't think I agree with this at all. Prayer is communicating with God, having a relationship with Him, not repeating Psalms over and over again.

[crystalship42]

That is not the christian kind of "contemplative prayer"...I think they need to clarify that. That is more New Age.

Christian contemplation is a step higher from meditation. You just don't seat or choose a time or need some specific circunstances to do prayer. In a step of been a "contemplative," you transform your life in a "living prayer". You develop a highest consciousness in which is your relation concerning to God, humankind and everything that sorrounding you. They need to clarify.

[KarensFaith]

I'm not sure of the difference. I do know that we are not to empty our minds and use vain repetitions, which is what this entails. We are supposed to meditate on God's Word and His Word alone.  It still sounds New Age to me.

[KarensFaith]

Thanks, Jim.

God bless!

Karen

[BARNUMandBENTLEY]

It is the same as channeling, the opening of oneself to "spirits." Just more evidence the "new age" has invaded the church.

Ray's book is great.

God bless,

Jim

[JimQualls]

There is a distinct difference between Christian and New Age forms of meditation. In Christian meditation, the believers mind is actively engaged and focuses on the Word of God. The believer is always conscious and never seeks a mystical experience of direct contact with God. New Age meditators..attempt to empty their minds through repetitious chanting or yogic breathing exercises. For them the goal is to experience oneness with the universe or attain God-consciousness.

Apologestics SB

[KarensFaith]

Yes, exactly! Thank you Jim and God bless!

[john146only]

Nice work Jim, as always!

[john146only]

I loved Ray's book too!