DEBATE: 1 Timothy 2:4, Does This Prove Arminianism When There Are Only 3 Possibilities?

[CAnswersTV]

@bluetew37 I've talked to hundreds in the comments section of our many Youtube videos with many just like you claiming to be a "Christian" but that claim is unsubstantiated without Biblical proof. "Calvinist" or "Arminian" is simply a lexical term to quickly assess a theological position without spending all day defining every detail. In other words it's a time saver in theological discussions. Thus a Bible reading Christian might be a "Calvinist" without ever having read Calvin, get it?

[bluetew37]

@CAnswersTV What I get is an interpretation of the Bible from the Holy Spirit not from John Calvin or Joseph Arminious.The Biblical proof is a changed life that is regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit.I do not believe that a person who studies the Bible thouroghly can come to a calvanist belief without being lead by someone who is already  following that position.

[CAnswersTV]

@bluetew37 You can believe what you want but it is not necessarily true or a condition of salvation. What is true is that only some people are "born again" by the Spirit of God (John 3:3-8), not everybody. The Spirit quickenth (John 6:63, Titus 3:5) & that by the Father (John 6:44,65, 2 Timothy 2:25-26). God decides who is saved & who is lost & you find that not by reading Calvin but just reading the Bible. God "hated" Esau before Esau did any good or bad (Romans 9:11-13). Men don't like this.

[bluetew37]

@CAnswersTV All Rmns.9:11-13 is saying is that God chooses people according to his own purposes;he calls people,but not according to their good or bad works.Yo also need to keep reading through the chapter to understand what it is saying.It is talking about the nations of Israel and Edom.God chose Jacob to cont. the family line b/c he knew his heart was for God.But He did not exclude Esau from knowing and loving Him.

[CAnswersTV]

@bluetew37 You just don't get it do you? You simply refuse to just let the text in Romans 9:11-13 speak for itself. The text says "not yet born, neither having done any good or evil ... not of works" which immediately destroys your whole argument here. Jacob was chosen by God for his Own purposes not because "He knew his heart for God (meaning 'works')" as you say. You bring in the Israel & Edom nonsense as a RED HERRING. Esau hated God (Romans 8:7) & God hated him, it's as simple as that.

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV So if God decides who is saved &who is lost WHAT is the purpose of Jesus...IF it's ultimately GOD choice...and would not those whom GOD did not choose have an excuse "hay man you didn't even give us a chance..You didn't want me...Abortion should then be good..Cause atleast God would not send a mere infant to Hell<or would HE.After all HE hated Esau...

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 You've come to a good conclusion logically in this matter as far as saying, "hay man you didn't even give us a chance" because this is what Paul anticipated someone saying in Romans 9:19, "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doeth he yet find fault? For who hast resisted his will?" Paul answers that in the next verse & following (Romans 9:20-23). Read it for yourself, I didn't write it. Please watch the entire 4 hour debate to get all the particulars (GOOGLE VIDEO, search LARRY WESSELS).

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV WELL verse 22  says....WHAT IF>>>"what if" i smack you in the face(for no apparent reason)? I am not going to do it BUT WHAT IF? 23 and He did so to make known the riches of HIS glory DOES WHAT IF mean HE DID? THE verses(which aren't verse any way) are there by man for man...this is a letter which flows< BUT now what about ABORTION.. Are wee little ones in HELL cause after all God just may make them for such destruction?.

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 It's obvious you have no concept of Biblical hermeneutics in your view of Romans 9:11-23. You completely left out verse 21 which sets up the context for the following passages, get it? The potter (God) has power to make one lump of clay for honourable use (the saved) & the other lump for dishonourable use (the damned- the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction), get it? "IF" God makes a person saved or damned what's that to you, get it? Abortion is in the PROVIDENCE of God, get it?

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV SO basically all RAPES MURDERS CHILD MOLESTATION God just sit backs and watching maybe even egging it on? so everything that happens IS PLANNED OUT TO THE LAST SECOND nano second...WE.. why bother?NO matter what one does or doesn't do IT won't matter...Cause ultimately IT'S what GOD wants HE is the big puppeteer and we are puppets WHY bother with anything WE could just do want every we please CAUSE it's up to GOD anyway.....and really you should read it in content.

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 You really are ignorant of the Word of God aren't you? You make all these EMOTIONAL arguments (just like pro-abortionists do concerning rape, incest, & the mother's safety to justify abortion) without stopping to understand what the Bible has already said on such issues. Your EMOTIONALISM does NOT overrule God's SOVEREIGNTY, get it? Here's just ONE of many examples: Jeremiah 19:9 (God speaking): "& I WILL CAUSE THEM TO EAT THE FLESH OF THEIR SONS & OF THEIR DAUGHTERS..." Context, uh?

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV I do believe IN GOD's Sovereignty.HANDS DOWN, and that said I do not see God ever saying "OOPS didn't see that coming!" I am saying that WE have to be FREE creatures or God isn't sovereign.(For that matter JUST too) WE have to have the Ability to SAY yes to HIM or NO to HIM "ON OUR OWN> the fact that He Knows who will be saved or NOT is just a side issue. WE mus be FREE with our DECISIONS...WITHOUT GOD'S intervention..or they we can blame HIM for EVIL>>>and question HIS authority! 

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 We're only FREE in Christ Jesus. If God had let us alone in this world to make our own "free will" decisions we would have chosen the world, the flesh & the devil "HANDS DOWN", get it? Before a man is "born again" (John 3:3-8, Ephesians 1:1-11) by a SOVEREIGN & SUPERNATURAL ACT OF GOD he is DEAD (NOT FREE, get it?) in his sins & trespasses (Eph 2:1-10, Romans 3:10-18). A dead sinner can't FREELY choose Christ UNLESS God grants that man REPENTANCE (2 Tim 2:24-26, John 1:12-13), get it?

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV LIGHT has come into the World For everyone

WE either choose to embrace it & reveal our darkness(confess sins) or we remain DARK BECAUSE WE love sin(s) BUT LIGHT IS THERE FOR EVERYONE either GOD grants Us FREE will...OR i repeat we R puppets and NO purpose of Jesus/cross cause it's "only" God's ultimate good will and "so what" to the rest of the world Basically I find that those who hold to what you believe in R in a word arrogant.>smug...LIKE GOD loves me MORE!&He Hates YOU!

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 So sorry to disappoint you but you simply do not believe in the God as presented in the Bible. You just don't like the God of the Bible as the scriptures teach because He doesn't fit into your EMOTIONALISTIC theology that you have created in your own mind. That's why you hate verses like Romans 9:13 where God Himself says He hated Esau BEFORE he did anything good or evil & verse 17 where God says He made Pharoah for the purpose of destroying him in the judgments brought through Moses.

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV DOES God have to adhere to the same Spirit as He commanded us to live by? (The Spirit is also GOD) Galatians5:22 love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness and self-control NOW not saying that there will not be those in HELL but Hell will there choice.NOT GODS.

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 You remind me of the uninvited guest In Matthew 22:11-14. You earnestly desire that everyman's "freewill" (someone without the 'wedding garment' - namely, without being "born again" (John 3:3-8) by a SOVEREIGN & SUPERNATURAL act of God) will get him into heaven thus securing his "salvation" from hell. True Christians understand the SUPERNATURAL act of God in their salvation but those "outside" want into heaven without it (no wedding garment). Did Paul follow Gal 5:22 in Acts 13:8-12?

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV I believe you mix that which is Jewish to that which is GENTILE...GOD from Genesis roughly 12 to Acts roughly7(and a few NT letters)DEALS with the nation of ISRAEL the gospels ARE part of the OT JESUS came and HIS people.. rejected HIM WE gentiles are under grace PERIOD. IT'S always been about OBEDIENCE &FAITH. not about john calvin WHO DO YOU FOLLOW?

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 Now we're starting to smoke you out. You're not only dodging the scripture references I continually bring up in the New Testament but you have failed to watch the entire 4 hour debate which would answer most of your inane & silly assertions. Now you come up with this ISRAEL & GENTILES nonsense about which part is which in the Bible that has NOTHING to do with the issue of God PREDESTINATING some to salvation & some to damnation !? God (not Calvin, get it?) CHOOSES Jews & Gentiles.

[Ogram1000]

 FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD(all everyone for all of time past to all of time future) THAT WHOSOEVER(anyone ever born period)BELIEVES (simple but still a choice)IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE...

GOD could of inspired the writers of scripture to make it so that there would be NO DOUBT. Scripture is what it is because it is what it is..<GODS WORD

NOT JOHN CALVINS

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 You prove here that you're a theological idiot! Not only have you not watched this entire debate (if you had you'd no doubt noticed our debate segment on John 3:16 which you quote here entitled, "Debate: John 3:16, Does "World" Always Mean Everybody Who Ever Lived or Not?" That debate segment shows Biblically that your interpretation of "world" is FALSE scripturally. It's WHOSOEVER BELIEVES only, get it? Calvin has nothing to do with this. Only predestinated believers are saved.

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV so far you have called me a theological idiot,the "WE"RE starting to smoke you out, an uninvited guess, and apparently ignorant. SO I TAKE IT that all must believe in Calvin or some how "we" are not saved. You remind me of Jehovah Witnesses WHOM fit their scriptures to their agenda.IN 1Corinthians1:10- 13 NASB (unless you are also a KJV onlyism look it up your self)"Now I exhort you, brethren, by the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions

[CAnswersTV]

@Ogram1000 I've tolerated your incoherent comments since they show interested readers the difference BETWEEN your MAN CENTERED EMOTIONALISTIC religion & the MAJESTY OF GOD'S POWER & SOVEREIGNTY in the salvation of lost sinners as presented in the scriptures. I bring up Biblical texts & all you do is talk about Calvin & JWs in response thus exposing your ignorance of these soteriological issues. Even here your misuse of 1 Cor 10-13 is easily refuted by 1 Cor 11:18-19 & is off the subject besides.

[Ogram1000]

@CAnswersTV It's Obvious< basically you have to have some sort of degree to understand scriptures... and some poor plow boy in england has not concept of scripture...interesting

[CAnswersTV]

EmeiBagauzhang it is obvious that you want to ignore all the arguments brought up in the video to prove you wrong. You're like the drunken blind man who merrily walks off the cliff believing a bridge is there when it is not. The only "horrible logic" being displayed is by you. Your pretexts of Bible texts are out of context! Jesus was not interested in saving the WHOLE WORLD since he did not pray for the WORLD (John 17:9) & he spoke in parables so people would not be saved (Mark 4:10-12).

[CAnswersTV]

Despite your protestations EmeiBaguazhang you are nevertheless ignoring the many scripture references brought up in my comments as well as in the video presentation. Instead of dealing with what the scriptures plainly teach you yell all the louder "CRUCIFY HIM" at the top of your lungs while ignoring the facts. If Jesus wanted everyone to be saved then they would be but as the Bible clearly teaches not many will be saved but rather most will be turned into hell (Psalm 9:17). Try Romans 9:22.

[CAnswersTV]

EmeiBaguazhang as usual you are dead wrong in your faulty logic & misunderstood Bible texts. You are attempting to teach universalism which is a complete heresy Biblically speaking. God is "no respector of persons" means He does not regard one over another in respect to wealth, stature, speaking ability, etc. God can save all types of people without respect to these attributes. It is by the amazing grace of God that He has decided to save anyone at all. In Noah's day God decided to save 8.

[CAnswersTV]

The only one that has a "hardened heart" EmeiBaguazhang is you since you refuse to believe what the Bible clearly teaches. Instead you have created a psycho-emotional system of theology designed to pander to your own personal tastes (much like Cain did in Genesis). You're like the "uninvited guest" Jesus mentioned in Matthew 22:1-14. You have a Frank Sinatra religion as you sing, "I want it my way!" For you, your false "universalist" gospel will not let you believe in the true Biblical God.

[CBALLEN]

@CAnswersTV Univeralists are some very strange animals,they won't debate scripture because theres nothing in there that they believe except Jesus died for the whole world,talk about taking verses out of context.

[bluetew37]

@CBALLEN calvanism gave birth to universalim. neither is correct

[CBALLEN]

@bluetew37 Arminianism is the theology of all the cults except universalism.