@renniweht its the same principle as a connecting rod on a crankshaft but in this case the cam and rocker are attached and actuates the valve with both a pushing and pulling motion.
@matafdo123 This configuration can done with either gear or chain drive. We used a belt drive as it was easier to make head changes on the dyno with a belt drive.
I love this setup but the thing that drew me away for getting a 749 Ducati is this valve train, due the the expense of the valve adjustment needed EVERY 7500 miles. It would have added up
Decuir did not say he invented the valve system. He said he patented an improvement.
Look at his website. Check his patents –there are several. Check his history of building winning race cars and setting records while driving many of them. His history and records are incredible.
Ask POLITELY:
what the measured HP improvements have been to date
what the measured torque to turn stock versus Decuir cam system is
how many of the major auto manufacturers are using his system.
This is not new technology invented by Decuir Engine Technologies. Desmodromic valve operation was invented by Fabio Tagleoni in 1956 for the Ducati MotoGp bike.
How many hp produces? what's the max rpm's? i'm guessing this is an inline 4. this is cool and all but all that excess metal in the top of the engine looks uncool. if you were going to put that engine inside a car, you would need to really lower the engine down so the hood will close properly.
@cfb36 Ok Einstein, first show me an automotive application where rpm's regularly go to 25k? and when you consider that this system has positive actuation without an oscillating spring, valve float is not an issue.
@EmpEntTV formula 1, doesn't rev to 25k per se but the benifit of a high reving engine is to be able to produce more horsepower overall out of a smaller displacement, like how an f1 engine produces around 800hp out of a 2.4l v8
@EmpEntTV Thanks for sharing the video! Could you please share with us the max RPM that is possible to spin? And I am looking for alternatives for my own engine development, for the motorbike I am building. Do you deal only with big companies?
@cfb36 pretty sure the connecting rods on any standard car engine would go flying through the block at 25k rpm...hell im pretty sure even an f1 race car engine or street bike motor would fail almost instantly at that high of rpm....so im pretty sure valve float would be the least of your issues at that piont...
@SaGalv ur an idiot, first this engine uses an over head cam type design, so no shitty conecting rods to deal with an second any stock spec street type motor , even with this valve train would fall apart at those rpms because the components aren't light enough or balenced well enough to handle the speed, and f1 cars don't rev that high because the FIA set the limit at 19k to lower the output of the engine but if they could they would rev to 25k or higher.
@cfb36 Your the one who is apparently claiming that connecting rods somehow have something to do with the valvetrain and IM the idiot? Why dont you figure out what your talking about before you talk shit, ask ANYONE who is knowledgable about engines and they will tell you that CONNECTING rods connect the PISTON to the CRANKSHAFT, and yes, and yeah maybe an f1 car engine could possibly hit 25,000 rpm for a few seconds..maybe even maybe a minute? tops?...before inevitable catastrophic failure
@SaGalv wow i feel like an idiot, you said connecting rod i thought push rod, i could throw some engineering bs at you but i don't fee like it so think as you please i don't care.
@cfb36yeah i eventually i figured out you just misunderstood what i said, since i figured there was no way you would know that a pushrod wouldnt be in an overhead cam engine, but not know the difference between a pushrod and connecting rod lmao. S'all good. Still though, ive yet to see a piston engine hit 25,000rpm...and if i did i would be absolutely amazed if it could sustain that kind of rpm without internal failure immediately occuring.
@cfb36 what you were probably thinking of was the pushrod...which, you are right, is only found in Non-overhead cam engines. But a pushrod and connecting rod are no where near the same thing...the reason I said the connecting rods would fail is becuase go ahead and watch every motor blow up video on youtube and you can see that 99.9 percent of the time the bottom end fails in an engine way before the top end does, since the bottom end deals with all the engines power.
@whatda11111 Thanks for your very detailed and well thought out response, its obvious its taken great years of studying engineering for your great and positive conclusions.
Very interesting. However if it is purely the cams holding the valves, how are you keeping sufficient upward force on the valves to keep them seated? In my somewhat limited automotive experience, valves are finicky to keep sealed, even with stiff springs holding them against the seat.
@neilttrider The camshaft is attached to the rocker much like a connecting rod to a crankshaft. So as the shaft move it is pushing the valve open as well as pulling the valve closed.
So how do you control cam profile. With that design it appears you're stuck with a sinusoid. Also, I don't see how you will maintain seal as the engine heats and cools because you have no "give" in the system.
how do you adjust lobe to actuator clearance on this setup? and I'm wondering if you've ha d apatent issues with Ducati, this is very similar to their desmodromic valve actuation system, and using Ducatis name for your similar system may land you in legal trouble.
@MountainGuerrilla, The system is adjustable between actuator and valve, We do have all proper patents already in place and although this is a "desmo" system, it is quite different in the way it functions in comparison with Ducati's system. Thanks for your question.
@MountainGuerrilla The Ducati system is totally different to this it uses rockers, one part to open and one part to close the valve. This looks a lot simpler.
More of everything except efficiency, I saw some designs like this and all were not pursued in depth due to the fact the cam needs so much oil and any interruption in flow can cause major wear rapidly. Basically every time you start your car your getting that much closer to having to replace it. With more design it would be very effective and economical.
@dougeggers You have no idea what you are talking about, oil flow is virtually unchanged with this design, so your analysis is stupid, uneducated and is the usual nonsense from people who have no experience in creating and enhancing technology.
Very smart design! I hope this goes into mainstream engines. Add this and several other engine efficiency modifications-what you end up with is a much more energy efficient engine with increased power to weight ratio. We need to increase energy efficiency and reduce emissions. What is needed is simple, efficient engines that are inexpensive to manufacture and inexpensive to operate with fewer moving parts.
@chucknorris0325, Hey Chuck, just wondering how this compares to the system that you have developed? Obviously you have spent time with your high degree of knowledge and have built something similar if not better?
Hey dryDOCKriverRAT, we do have a system in development that is meant for small block V-8's search around and we have another video here on Youtube that shows how that one works.
If you are eliminating friction from the valvetrain and removing a weak link in the system, you are gaining horsepower, fuel mileage and engine longevity.
Then you are obviously stuck in the same closed minded perspective as most car manufacturers. Valve springs are such a waste of potential energy and tend to be the weakest link of most engines.
awesome technology... absolutely brilliant... How hard of a modification would it be for a Chevy 350 engine? Seems like there would be less friction and resistance with this new system... definitely the next generation of engine performance...
But the point of the matter is taking an existing configuration that is widely used in many racing and performance applications and enhancing its abilities. Overhead cam engines is a certainly better means of valve actuation but to take a small block Chevy, Ford or Chrysler over head valve and enhancing its valvetrain system is the whole point of this system.
this techo has been around for a while,saw a video a long time ago that engine could run at 15000 (a lot faster then the stock head)nothing else was modded back then
the coates dude issue back then was finding financing .best engine head bar none
this piece is nice in every application and i believe coates industry also make custom head for your specific aplication (if it hasnt changed)since if i recall these head and valve were made around ?10 years or more ago!
Got it! The rocker arm is connected to the cam lobe with a bolt, can barely see it in the video. That indeed is Desmodromic valvetrain design, it's even a more advanced system, less moving parts. Sweet stuff!
MrCartman, very good observation, the way this lobe is engineered it both pushes open the valve and then pulls it back to its seat. We are still in development with it but so far shows very great promise. Thanks!
Mr. Cartman, if you had listened a bit closer to the narration, you would have heard that we acknowledge the presence of a spring but its main purpose is to hold the valve seal in place and does not close the valve! Based on your un educated comment I would suggest you pay closer attention. Decuir Engine Technologies
I am also puzzled by the crank and cam rotating at the same speed. Intake and exhaust being actuated every 360 degrees. 2-stroke?
Looks like the "round" cam is acting like a crank-shaft and there is a small connecting rod actuating the rocker arm.
Interesting that they point out that it gets good compression. No spring with cam lash here. If you you don't have your geometry adjustment just-right, will you have blow-by (cam not pulling valve to seat) or mechanical interference (pulled too far)?
All I can see is an eccentric opening the valve, so where's the closing mechanism? And what's more, at 2:18 into the video the crankshaft driving sprocket appears to be the same size as the camshaft sprocket. Which presumably implies it's not a conventional four stroke engine.
Not forgetting that an eccentric driven valve will be moving all the time, as can be seen. This is clearly some sort of modification of a two stroke engine whereby the 'valves' are probably operating windowed ports.
The average automotive engine only uses around 30% of the potential energy of the gasoline because of parasitic drag (yes technically valvesprings cause drag on the camshaft every time the valves are opened) and friction being converted to heat. These technologies while perhaps not new they are being revisted and could increase effeciency. More power with higher MPG in one package.... Yeah, its definately not worth researching...
@Giliganism It's not parasitic drag, it's thermal in eff. Most of the energy goes out the tail pipe as unused heat, ie 70%. An additional 5% is lost to friction. (these r rough #)
As for the energy to open a valve, alot of that energy is returned when the spring pushes the cam lobe on the return.
Yes it will work. It has been used and tested for many years now. While it does reduce engine power loss due to springed valve train resistance it has other problems associated with this design. The extra machining is more costly. Weight is increased. Many more moving parts (to go wrong too). Clearances, and hence required maintenance, are CRITICAL for smooth operation. Many engine designers have been aware of this design and have passed on it. There are better valve train designs nowadays.
ignoring when and who first invented this, would this work? The of replacing springs is to achieve higher rpms but at higher rpms you have to worry about vibration (nvh). Springs and compressed air can absorb some of these but can this system? It looks like it's metal on metal and very stiff.
hey is 170psi.on an engine good compression??? that is a new valve job right? the reason why I ask is my car has a 169psi compression?is a 1987 BMW 325es.
Back in the late 1950's or early 1960's one of the car magazines (might have been Hot Rod) had a written article and a cover photograph of a small-block Chevrolet engine converted to a Desmodromic valve train.
im 15 and came up with pretty much the exact same design of a swash plate engine before i knew they existed, i was spewwin when i found out they did cos in knew it would work
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
just think, in about 200 years their might be a 4 cyl motor that will pump out over 2000 hp, and propel the car to nearly the sound barrier of course , it'll be a Mustang!!
And Ducati didn't invent it either lol, it had been around before they used it. Could get the conversion kits for a few vintage bikes in their days.
Think its a disgrace that some companies like this one take someone elses invention then rebrand it as their own to people they think and hope will not realise any different - most people wont, but the few will be annoyed by this
You will care because in the future they will tax or outlaw internal combustion in the future because of air pollution and dependence from foreign oil. BTW electric car beats Ferrari Enzo all the time in a drag race....he..he.. that is fun.....
A Enzo is a over priced pos. I will take my chevy 454 with a thumpr cam any day over a million$ car. Fuck elextric cars i wouldnt plug it in every day and not have a car to get to work.
ok maybe the best electric car can beat an enzo in a drag race, but then you put the best electric car against the best internal combustion car, and see who would win ;)
I like the idea, but a round lobed cam gives you a huge overlap with very slow valve speeds....not bad if your going to turn this thing to 10 grand, but I really dont see it making any low end torque at all.
A big problem with the camshaft in that engine is that it opens and closes the valves very slowly and the cam duration is very high, this would give poor bhp and bad fuel econemy.
Can this system be used with a more conventional "spikey" cam lobe profile?
Desmodromic valve trains are nothing new. Mercedes used them on their race cars in the '50s, and Ducati still uses them on their race bikes and race replica bikes.
should be a huge gain in the upper rpms, the reason most pushrod engines lose power at high rpm is because of valve float, this would eliminate float.
stronger springs also kills float, but wears out the valve train much quicker
As usual the armchair experts weighing with their supeior knowlege. This a great design, I'll bet the engine runs cooler. Also Did you hear the smoothness of the engine up and down the power band. Nice, Nice! This might be combined with newer technologies from other designs. I would give your work a thumbs up. Neal
Valve float is when the valve spring fails to keep all components like the valve, rocker arm, push rod and lifter firmly planted on the cam lobe. It usually happens at higher rpm.
valve float is a harmonic resonance that occurs in the valve-spring at a particular RPM. The spring tends to wobble upon closure and as such, the valve does not sit flush on its seat.
the germans were the first to develop the "desmo" system. But they drop it. Desmo is good only for small engines. Ducati stole the idea and patented it. I think desmo is too old system. Renault camless (hydropneumatic) thecnology is so much better.
I believe F1 engines use a pneumatic valve system where they use high pressure air to operate the valves. Not too sure of the technicalities but the springs tended to limit the revs to about 12000rpm. With the current system theyre limited to 19000rpm by the regulations. Serious stuff.
kawasaki ninja zx6r's have a max over rev at 20 grand... rev limiter probably kicks in at about 18 by what i've seen... the speed isn't as limited as it seems
F-One engines do not use conventional valve springs. They have gone to a pneumatic spring that uses a small piston and compressed air to close the valves. The valves are opened by a comventional camshaft. They have found this to be superior to the desmodromic system.
How do the valves come back up after being pushed down?!?!
renniweht 7 months ago
@renniweht its the same principle as a connecting rod on a crankshaft but in this case the cam and rocker are attached and actuates the valve with both a pushing and pulling motion.
DET
EmpEntTV 7 months ago
@renniweht
Whit a spring !!! lol
dp240sx222 1 month ago
Is this only belt driven? Can it be chain or gear driven.
matafdo123 9 months ago
@matafdo123 This configuration can done with either gear or chain drive. We used a belt drive as it was easier to make head changes on the dyno with a belt drive.
DET
EmpEntTV 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what happens when one fails
carpetmonk 9 months ago
I love this setup but the thing that drew me away for getting a 749 Ducati is this valve train, due the the expense of the valve adjustment needed EVERY 7500 miles. It would have added up
Redbull4Blood 9 months ago
Decuir did not say he invented the valve system. He said he patented an improvement.
Look at his website. Check his patents –there are several. Check his history of building winning race cars and setting records while driving many of them. His history and records are incredible.
Ask POLITELY:
what the measured HP improvements have been to date
what the measured torque to turn stock versus Decuir cam system is
how many of the major auto manufacturers are using his system.
rwminicup 10 months ago
This is not new technology invented by Decuir Engine Technologies. Desmodromic valve operation was invented by Fabio Tagleoni in 1956 for the Ducati MotoGp bike.
ARob128 11 months ago
springless? with little springs? Hmmm, doesn't sound very springless to me ;p
CARPSPUDPICKER 11 months ago
How many hp produces? what's the max rpm's? i'm guessing this is an inline 4. this is cool and all but all that excess metal in the top of the engine looks uncool. if you were going to put that engine inside a car, you would need to really lower the engine down so the hood will close properly.
elchicoboy 1 year ago
Very cool design but we need a true back to back test, IE the Dodge 2.2/2.5 stock engine then swap to your design and see the results.
How much does this cost?
turbovanman 1 year ago
How much to outfit my 2.5 turbo with that setup. Would be nice.
shackwrrr 1 year ago
The next 20-30 years sure will be interesting seeing technology evolve at such a pace.
lilsm555 1 year ago
This system is similar to Nissan's new 3.7 VVEL V6 intake, To reduce pump lose.
SANYUR 1 year ago
no valve float huh? show the engine at 25k rpm
cfb36 1 year ago
@cfb36 Ok Einstein, first show me an automotive application where rpm's regularly go to 25k? and when you consider that this system has positive actuation without an oscillating spring, valve float is not an issue.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago 9
@EmpEntTV formula 1, doesn't rev to 25k per se but the benifit of a high reving engine is to be able to produce more horsepower overall out of a smaller displacement, like how an f1 engine produces around 800hp out of a 2.4l v8
cfb36 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV im just interested in knowing HOW the valves are closed and how it would cope with rpm above idle
citydriver 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV Thanks for sharing the video! Could you please share with us the max RPM that is possible to spin? And I am looking for alternatives for my own engine development, for the motorbike I am building. Do you deal only with big companies?
tthhnnee 4 weeks ago
@cfb36 pretty sure the connecting rods on any standard car engine would go flying through the block at 25k rpm...hell im pretty sure even an f1 race car engine or street bike motor would fail almost instantly at that high of rpm....so im pretty sure valve float would be the least of your issues at that piont...
SaGalv 1 year ago
@SaGalv ur an idiot, first this engine uses an over head cam type design, so no shitty conecting rods to deal with an second any stock spec street type motor , even with this valve train would fall apart at those rpms because the components aren't light enough or balenced well enough to handle the speed, and f1 cars don't rev that high because the FIA set the limit at 19k to lower the output of the engine but if they could they would rev to 25k or higher.
cfb36 1 year ago
@cfb36 Your the one who is apparently claiming that connecting rods somehow have something to do with the valvetrain and IM the idiot? Why dont you figure out what your talking about before you talk shit, ask ANYONE who is knowledgable about engines and they will tell you that CONNECTING rods connect the PISTON to the CRANKSHAFT, and yes, and yeah maybe an f1 car engine could possibly hit 25,000 rpm for a few seconds..maybe even maybe a minute? tops?...before inevitable catastrophic failure
SaGalv 1 year ago
@SaGalv wow i feel like an idiot, you said connecting rod i thought push rod, i could throw some engineering bs at you but i don't fee like it so think as you please i don't care.
cfb36 1 year ago
@cfb36yeah i eventually i figured out you just misunderstood what i said, since i figured there was no way you would know that a pushrod wouldnt be in an overhead cam engine, but not know the difference between a pushrod and connecting rod lmao. S'all good. Still though, ive yet to see a piston engine hit 25,000rpm...and if i did i would be absolutely amazed if it could sustain that kind of rpm without internal failure immediately occuring.
SaGalv 1 year ago
@cfb36 what you were probably thinking of was the pushrod...which, you are right, is only found in Non-overhead cam engines. But a pushrod and connecting rod are no where near the same thing...the reason I said the connecting rods would fail is becuase go ahead and watch every motor blow up video on youtube and you can see that 99.9 percent of the time the bottom end fails in an engine way before the top end does, since the bottom end deals with all the engines power.
SaGalv 1 year ago
ducati calls this desmodromic or simply desmo and has helps the valve remain open for more time so more fuel-air can get in the culinder.
geocooler 1 year ago
so what ??
whatda11111 1 year ago
@whatda11111 Thanks for your very detailed and well thought out response, its obvious its taken great years of studying engineering for your great and positive conclusions.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago 5
Very interesting. However if it is purely the cams holding the valves, how are you keeping sufficient upward force on the valves to keep them seated? In my somewhat limited automotive experience, valves are finicky to keep sealed, even with stiff springs holding them against the seat.
bassbone1785 1 year ago
What if there was an engine sludge build up o.O
Catacylsm 1 year ago
I feel a bit stupid here,but I can see how the valve opens by the round lobe cam pushing on the rocker/follower,but how is the valve closed?
neilttrider 1 year ago
@neilttrider The camshaft is attached to the rocker much like a connecting rod to a crankshaft. So as the shaft move it is pushing the valve open as well as pulling the valve closed.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV
So how do you control cam profile. With that design it appears you're stuck with a sinusoid. Also, I don't see how you will maintain seal as the engine heats and cools because you have no "give" in the system.
freonr2 1 year ago
Seems like the pressure from springs and the weight would be reduced. Looks like a beautiful system in action.
EdVidz 1 year ago
Soo, what about duration???? It appears that the valves are always in a state of movement except when they stop to got the other way.
Aerosmith145 1 year ago
how do you adjust lobe to actuator clearance on this setup? and I'm wondering if you've ha d apatent issues with Ducati, this is very similar to their desmodromic valve actuation system, and using Ducatis name for your similar system may land you in legal trouble.
MountainGuerrilla 1 year ago
@MountainGuerrilla, The system is adjustable between actuator and valve, We do have all proper patents already in place and although this is a "desmo" system, it is quite different in the way it functions in comparison with Ducati's system. Thanks for your question.
Decuir Engine Techologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@MountainGuerrilla Desmodromic is an engineering term, its use predates Ducati's by many years.
schlusselmensch 1 year ago
@MountainGuerrilla The Ducati system is totally different to this it uses rockers, one part to open and one part to close the valve. This looks a lot simpler.
triumph1974 1 year ago
More of everything except efficiency, I saw some designs like this and all were not pursued in depth due to the fact the cam needs so much oil and any interruption in flow can cause major wear rapidly. Basically every time you start your car your getting that much closer to having to replace it. With more design it would be very effective and economical.
dougeggers 1 year ago
@dougeggers You have no idea what you are talking about, oil flow is virtually unchanged with this design, so your analysis is stupid, uneducated and is the usual nonsense from people who have no experience in creating and enhancing technology.
Decuir Engine Technologes
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
Um, coates spherical rotary valves anyone? they look to be more reliable than this setup.
kemorc 1 year ago
same as a docaty
MrJetjoe 1 year ago
Very smart design! I hope this goes into mainstream engines. Add this and several other engine efficiency modifications-what you end up with is a much more energy efficient engine with increased power to weight ratio. We need to increase energy efficiency and reduce emissions. What is needed is simple, efficient engines that are inexpensive to manufacture and inexpensive to operate with fewer moving parts.
platinumplusenter 1 year ago
can u use this system in a 16v 4 cilinder engine???
reprovader87 1 year ago
@reprovader87 We are in development for all configurations of valvetrains and engine blocks.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
How does the valve return to the closed position? i did not see anything pulling the valve back up. Just curious.
knightdarkcloud 1 year ago
@knightdarkcloud The Cam does both in its cycle.
dougeggers 1 year ago
check out 1valve com, much less parts.
Pretty cool.
btester1 1 year ago
@btester1 but that concept is for small gas engines...
kemorc 1 year ago
lmao 1:10 FAIL!!!
chucknorris0325 1 year ago
@chucknorris0325, Hey Chuck, just wondering how this compares to the system that you have developed? Obviously you have spent time with your high degree of knowledge and have built something similar if not better?
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV i think all he was talking about is how the wrench slipped off of the bolt when the person was trying to turn the valves
tabletop45 1 year ago
the center of the cam lobes looks like alot of wear or scoring
spazmoso 1 year ago
@spazmoso, This is not the conventional style camshaft, as the lobe is more of a connecting rod type of connection, so there is no scoring or wear.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
I can see how to get more lift just use bigger circles. but how would you get longer duration if so desired?
my1987toyota 1 year ago
slap it on a small block and charge .... theyd sell like hotcakes
desmo is the way to go if theres ever a race involved...err to say that you can rev the shit out of it
dryDOCKriverRAT 1 year ago
Hey dryDOCKriverRAT, we do have a system in development that is meant for small block V-8's search around and we have another video here on Youtube that shows how that one works.
DECUIR ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
why not just a rotating ball valve with ports on its side..
DanFrederiksen 1 year ago
so how does this effect the car
UkrainianShinobi 1 year ago
If you are eliminating friction from the valvetrain and removing a weak link in the system, you are gaining horsepower, fuel mileage and engine longevity.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
i'd take valve springs over this technology any day.
MrTurboturbine 1 year ago
Then you are obviously stuck in the same closed minded perspective as most car manufacturers. Valve springs are such a waste of potential energy and tend to be the weakest link of most engines.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
@EmpEntTV
awesome technology... absolutely brilliant... How hard of a modification would it be for a Chevy 350 engine? Seems like there would be less friction and resistance with this new system... definitely the next generation of engine performance...
scott93257 1 year ago
Putting desmo valves on a pushrod engine is like attaching an electric motor to a horse.
If you want to go faster buy an OHC engine and have done with it.
evildrome 1 year ago
But the point of the matter is taking an existing configuration that is widely used in many racing and performance applications and enhancing its abilities. Overhead cam engines is a certainly better means of valve actuation but to take a small block Chevy, Ford or Chrysler over head valve and enhancing its valvetrain system is the whole point of this system.
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
this techo has been around for a while,saw a video a long time ago that engine could run at 15000 (a lot faster then the stock head)nothing else was modded back then
the coates dude issue back then was finding financing .best engine head bar none
this piece is nice in every application and i believe coates industry also make custom head for your specific aplication (if it hasnt changed)since if i recall these head and valve were made around ?10 years or more ago!
drbaltazar 1 year ago
Got it! The rocker arm is connected to the cam lobe with a bolt, can barely see it in the video. That indeed is Desmodromic valvetrain design, it's even a more advanced system, less moving parts. Sweet stuff!
MrCartman2578 1 year ago
MrCartman, very good observation, the way this lobe is engineered it both pushes open the valve and then pulls it back to its seat. We are still in development with it but so far shows very great promise. Thanks!
Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
is there not gonna be extreme friction wearing out the valves, lobes, oil and creating huge engine noise?
yascumbag 1 year ago
Mr. Cartman, if you had listened a bit closer to the narration, you would have heard that we acknowledge the presence of a spring but its main purpose is to hold the valve seal in place and does not close the valve! Based on your un educated comment I would suggest you pay closer attention. Decuir Engine Technologies
EmpEntTV 1 year ago
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MrCartman2578 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrCartman2578 1 year ago
LOL sounds like a electrikal motor
DizzlerDazzler 1 year ago
is this what they use on f1 cars?
superfunnyman123 1 year ago
I am also puzzled by the crank and cam rotating at the same speed. Intake and exhaust being actuated every 360 degrees. 2-stroke?
Looks like the "round" cam is acting like a crank-shaft and there is a small connecting rod actuating the rocker arm.
Interesting that they point out that it gets good compression. No spring with cam lash here. If you you don't have your geometry adjustment just-right, will you have blow-by (cam not pulling valve to seat) or mechanical interference (pulled too far)?
arpy61 1 year ago
that's awesome
TheDaytonaMan 1 year ago
All I can see is an eccentric opening the valve, so where's the closing mechanism? And what's more, at 2:18 into the video the crankshaft driving sprocket appears to be the same size as the camshaft sprocket. Which presumably implies it's not a conventional four stroke engine.
Not forgetting that an eccentric driven valve will be moving all the time, as can be seen. This is clearly some sort of modification of a two stroke engine whereby the 'valves' are probably operating windowed ports.
063209dr 1 year ago
that shit probably chatters harsher and coarser than a honda valvetrain! yikes
chabbalato 1 year ago
Engines are getting so sophisticated these days, there is very little left to improve on.
NMoulana 1 year ago
Велика инерциона маса омета већи број обртаја мотора.
Велики специфични притисак ваљка на полугу вентила, при малој брзини котрљања, омета стварање уљног филма и повећава хабање.
ZoranM001 1 year ago
nice idea but i think friction between those lobes is much higher then conventional spring loaded valves
Fidelio0690 1 year ago
@Fidelio0690 totally, ist a system that burns itself :(
OttomanDrifter91 1 year ago
I bet this causes some kind of vibration... maybe
xsonz2 2 years ago
The average automotive engine only uses around 30% of the potential energy of the gasoline because of parasitic drag (yes technically valvesprings cause drag on the camshaft every time the valves are opened) and friction being converted to heat. These technologies while perhaps not new they are being revisted and could increase effeciency. More power with higher MPG in one package.... Yeah, its definately not worth researching...
Giliganism 2 years ago
My engines are 85-99% efficient.
The Rotary piston is 85%+ and the Ratchet Engine is 99% efficient
EngineTechnology1 1 year ago
@Giliganism It's not parasitic drag, it's thermal in eff. Most of the energy goes out the tail pipe as unused heat, ie 70%. An additional 5% is lost to friction. (these r rough #)
As for the energy to open a valve, alot of that energy is returned when the spring pushes the cam lobe on the return.
cheerdiver 1 year ago
ducati used a desmodromic valve actuation since the late 70's if im not mistaken hence they're called desmodue and desmoquattro engines
2wheelsisenough 2 years ago 2
Wow, this is going to change the world!!
lateboy4 2 years ago
it does help but in minor way; not nearly enough to change the world. What can change the world in a big way is zero point energy
kuvceebxab1 2 years ago
no not exactly this one but has ever used a desmodromic system
Lorenzioppo 2 years ago
Ducatti use this in their race bikes i think
booya257 2 years ago 9
To see a very elegant design look for "desmo" or "desmodromic" on you tube
zackzelmo 2 years ago
Yes it will work. It has been used and tested for many years now. While it does reduce engine power loss due to springed valve train resistance it has other problems associated with this design. The extra machining is more costly. Weight is increased. Many more moving parts (to go wrong too). Clearances, and hence required maintenance, are CRITICAL for smooth operation. Many engine designers have been aware of this design and have passed on it. There are better valve train designs nowadays.
zackzelmo 2 years ago
ignoring when and who first invented this, would this work? The of replacing springs is to achieve higher rpms but at higher rpms you have to worry about vibration (nvh). Springs and compressed air can absorb some of these but can this system? It looks like it's metal on metal and very stiff.
mars3554 2 years ago
hey is 170psi.on an engine good compression??? that is a new valve job right? the reason why I ask is my car has a 169psi compression?is a 1987 BMW 325es.
LittleModig 2 years ago
They should either put this or pneumatic return on every car, the technology has been around long enough.
NMoulana 2 years ago 3
like everyone else says, this is old. welcome to early 50's mercedes tech. (clap...clap...clap...)
thegenrl 2 years ago
thats an old system, i seen it in new zealand 30 years ago!!!!
cptkirk2007 2 years ago
I invented this in 1970 and im 36 years old
CaptainCarling 2 years ago 2
Back in the late 1950's or early 1960's one of the car magazines (might have been Hot Rod) had a written article and a cover photograph of a small-block Chevrolet engine converted to a Desmodromic valve train.
PonyguyV6 2 years ago
f1 cars.. compressed air.. nuff said
superkindonmymind 2 years ago
Yea Ducati has been using this design for many years.
Josr65 2 years ago 11
pistons engines aren't the future, turbines are.
barthoedemaker 2 years ago
They have invented desmodromic train......
again.
jarriano 2 years ago 2
im 15 and came up with pretty much the exact same design of a swash plate engine before i knew they existed, i was spewwin when i found out they did cos in knew it would work
JozeyHall 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
just think, in about 200 years their might be a 4 cyl motor that will pump out over 2000 hp, and propel the car to nearly the sound barrier of course , it'll be a Mustang!!
34D2234 2 years ago
the day the mustang has a 4pot i will cut me foreskin off and eat it.:)
SpirtualSuzie 2 years ago
Bust out the knife, mustangs have had 4-cylinders for a loooong time. They made a turbo 4 cylinder version in the 80's too!
dsmraver 2 years ago 3
Ducati have been doing that for years, nothing new
petrolhead200tdi 2 years ago 4
And Ducati didn't invent it either lol, it had been around before they used it. Could get the conversion kits for a few vintage bikes in their days.
Think its a disgrace that some companies like this one take someone elses invention then rebrand it as their own to people they think and hope will not realise any different - most people wont, but the few will be annoyed by this
luketorpedo 2 years ago 15
samething with videos on youtube some takes someone elses video chops it about adds music,then trys taking credit for it,
SpirtualSuzie 2 years ago
@luketorpedo just like Ford!
chabbalato 1 year ago
@luketorpedo
Seriously.
What a bunch of lies. Here's the wiki on Desmo valves:
wikipedia. org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
aydinvideo 1 year ago
it's still got springs so its not totaly springless
TheAussiNut 2 years ago 2
electric car with electric motor is best
amoringis 2 years ago
No.
Oddmanout84 2 years ago
yes, no gas,no pollution, clean earth.
amoringis 2 years ago
don't care. Internal combustion engines are much more fun.
Oddmanout84 2 years ago 2
You will care because in the future they will tax or outlaw internal combustion in the future because of air pollution and dependence from foreign oil. BTW electric car beats Ferrari Enzo all the time in a drag race....he..he.. that is fun.....
amoringis 2 years ago
and then runs out of battery
98camaro1 2 years ago
A Enzo is a over priced pos. I will take my chevy 454 with a thumpr cam any day over a million$ car. Fuck elextric cars i wouldnt plug it in every day and not have a car to get to work.
shookie222 2 years ago
ok maybe the best electric car can beat an enzo in a drag race, but then you put the best electric car against the best internal combustion car, and see who would win ;)
KirkTheGod 2 years ago
Nahh, I like dumping lots of fuel into the atmosphere. Go take one of Al Gore's loads.
subireza 2 years ago
desmodromik valvetrains are in use since 1912
megunded 2 years ago
is that a 2.3 L ford 4 cylinder?
stradguy93 2 years ago
2.2 or 2.5 chrysler
techx3d 2 years ago
i don't want my car to sound like a hairdryer
IEleMenTIx 2 years ago
I'm not impressed.
flexyco 2 years ago
ok a rocker arm really nothing new
arizonachristian 2 years ago
I see the springs!
deaftodd 2 years ago
I think ducati uses this tech with great success, f 1 tech is a step further
woodyate 2 years ago
the ducati system is way better than this one. the problem with this one is that the "cams" are round not a "conical" shape like they should be.
marcelomar2 2 years ago
Crank and Cam at 1;1 ratio that represent huge friction, this engine never gets more than 3k rpm due to valves overlaping
proximu 2 years ago
I like the idea, but a round lobed cam gives you a huge overlap with very slow valve speeds....not bad if your going to turn this thing to 10 grand, but I really dont see it making any low end torque at all.
moparmax926 2 years ago
so if those springs aren't there to seat the valve, how does the valve come back up?
second, i'd like to see this motor get to 7k+
jak4cars 2 years ago
i can see springs are still there, even tho they dont hold the valve, saying springless valve i think is misleading.
clean60r 2 years ago
Right... way to be picky.
soultronx10 2 years ago
it said in the video that the spring is there for the valve seals.
CenterLane1977 2 years ago
A big problem with the camshaft in that engine is that it opens and closes the valves very slowly and the cam duration is very high, this would give poor bhp and bad fuel econemy.
Can this system be used with a more conventional "spikey" cam lobe profile?
rwdford 2 years ago
desmodromic designs have been around since the invention of the internal combustion engine..
RadRocker9 2 years ago
New? Hardly.
kevin2real 2 years ago
thats exactly what i was thinking , this is old tech just polished up a bit and sold to people that are new to this stuff
zGJungle 2 years ago
Desmodromic valve trains are nothing new. Mercedes used them on their race cars in the '50s, and Ducati still uses them on their race bikes and race replica bikes.
n0exit 3 years ago
sounds like it has wicked valve knock.
al1500321 3 years ago
Cool! Wonder when this will become popular?
n1ckb99 3 years ago
maybe on larger engines but not in the automobile industry. This valve train looks way too heavy for sports machines.
A large ship engine maybe?
riderzx10r05 2 years ago
Seems a lot of engineering for a little gain.
sidecrank 3 years ago
should be a huge gain in the upper rpms, the reason most pushrod engines lose power at high rpm is because of valve float, this would eliminate float.
stronger springs also kills float, but wears out the valve train much quicker
mageac 3 years ago
As usual the armchair experts weighing with their supeior knowlege. This a great design, I'll bet the engine runs cooler. Also Did you hear the smoothness of the engine up and down the power band. Nice, Nice! This might be combined with newer technologies from other designs. I would give your work a thumbs up. Neal
Slambo2k 3 years ago 3
what is valve float?
seroyer2 3 years ago
when the valve is partially opened...
SultanMehmed 3 years ago
Valve float is when the valve spring fails to keep all components like the valve, rocker arm, push rod and lifter firmly planted on the cam lobe. It usually happens at higher rpm.
Dummerd 3 years ago
like when you over rev the motor at the track when you accidentally shift from 4 to 2 and you put 9,000k's on the motor?
seroyer2 3 years ago
Could happen then, yes. Stiffer valve springs will help.
Dummerd 2 years ago
yeah at a very high rpm the springs just arent strong enoguht to get the valve closed fast to it kinda stays open
shadowhunter45s 3 years ago
valve float is a harmonic resonance that occurs in the valve-spring at a particular RPM. The spring tends to wobble upon closure and as such, the valve does not sit flush on its seat.
scrfce123 3 years ago
the germans were the first to develop the "desmo" system. But they drop it. Desmo is good only for small engines. Ducati stole the idea and patented it. I think desmo is too old system. Renault camless (hydropneumatic) thecnology is so much better.
lanfras 3 years ago
Desmo systems have been around for years germans fucked around with it long time ago...ducati later stole it and used it
1901974 3 years ago
What a total rip off.
Ducati have been using this system for many years and as far as I'm aware is still under their patent. even some of the terms used are from Ducati.
Claiming someone else's ideas as your own is just a low down way of making money from someone else's hard work.
siraff2 3 years ago
this was designed long before ducati used it, the system they use is thiers, but you cant patent an idea...
if you could ford would be the only company with an assembly line...
mageac 3 years ago
Is VVT possible with this design?
togglenuts 3 years ago
what did you say JPBAUTO? thats the chrysler 2.2 how do you know?
honkycabbit 3 years ago
I wonder how many RPM you could squeeze out of it ?
muddwell 3 years ago
Good question! I Would like to know that... and i would like to know if the f1 engine uses valvesprings
ricafuzi 3 years ago
I believe F1 engines use a pneumatic valve system where they use high pressure air to operate the valves. Not too sure of the technicalities but the springs tended to limit the revs to about 12000rpm. With the current system theyre limited to 19000rpm by the regulations. Serious stuff.
muddwell 3 years ago 2
kawasaki ninja zx6r's have a max over rev at 20 grand... rev limiter probably kicks in at about 18 by what i've seen... the speed isn't as limited as it seems
JoshatSuzuki 3 years ago
F-One engines do not use conventional valve springs. They have gone to a pneumatic spring that uses a small piston and compressed air to close the valves. The valves are opened by a comventional camshaft. They have found this to be superior to the desmodromic system.
JGMagoo 3 years ago
Love the old 2.2 Dodge motor :)
Nice invention
JPBAUTO 3 years ago
How does it keep valve seat pressure and how do you maintain it when you have heat expansion that can change your adjustment...
azrios 3 years ago
yeah but looks how much smoother it looks to run compaired to watching vids of conventoinal valve springs
sam4412 3 years ago