LOL! It's not "typo's" either, you budala. The fact you have no clue how to use the apostrophe indicates to me that you lack a proper education. That would explain your inability to comprehend and interpret the historical texts you have cut and pasted here.
Hate to break it to you, but your video contains nothing new. No earth-shattering revelations here. The fact we had a Bavarian king doesn't make us any less Greek, just like having German kings didn't stop the Brits from fighting two world wars against Germany.
The Arvanites are but one of the subgroups of Hellenes. I belong to the Macedonian subgroup, and have nothing to do with the Arvanites, nor do I speak their language. Next.
You're nothing but a half breed dude, thats all you will ever be ! Just like the Greek nation which is a mixture of a bit of everything, it just refuses to face reality !
Look who's talking about refusing to accept reality. You think you're pure, do you? You're a mongrel mixture of Bulgar, Slav, Greek, Albanian, Turkish, Vlach, gypsy and whatever else you can think of, except of course Macedonian.
Abre tikvo, Athens was an Albanian village in 1830 be zaspan, look at a map and prove me wrong ! you must have me confused with the Bugari calling me Tatar lol !!!
After all your comitaji great-grandfathers fought for them, or for an "autonomous Macedonia" like "autonomous East Rumellia" soon to be annexed by Bulgaria!
Really ? if you think the Macedonians fought for Bulgaria your more stupid than i thought, they only fought for an undependent Macedonia. There was no need for them to fight for Bulgaria - who btw already had their independence (since 1878) but created by Russia as a puppet state of theirs !
It is historically proven that the Yugoslavian Democracy of Macedonia was created by Stalin, Tito and Dimitrov, aiming at the stealthy removal of a large part of Northern Greece. This Democracy was used during the period 1944-1949 in order to destabilise Greece."
(Thomas Niles, US Ambassador, 23rd June 1992, SubCommittee of US Congress)
Calling me a Bulgarian is just a pathetic attempt of yours to unnerve me an my people but ahh how you forget how Bulgaria invaded and occupied our land in WW@ and commited atrocities against the people ! If the population was Bulgarian then why would the Bulgarian Army do this to their "own" people ?
And last the Greek state was not freed in a night yes it took us a lot of time and a lot of blood to make our Free State. You see we didnt had Austria like Albanians did or NATO like you did, we had to fight with our own hands for our freedom.
You gained your independence through the help of the Great Powers, so yes you did have major help ! We unfortunately did'nt gain our independence in the Ottoman times, and thereafter in the Balkan Wars due to your country and your Allies dividing it up between yourselves, we however did liberate our country in 1944 on our own & gained independence on our own in 1991 from the Yugoslav Federation WITHOUT OUTSIDE HELP. Nato did not help us, we did it ourselves !
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery....
@Chovek1 ...Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..."
Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4 (Loeb, P. A. Brunt) - 95-175 AD
Kathareuousa was established as a scholar language and Demotiki was a simplified dialect established in the modern days, Greek language is one, but it has many variands through the ages (just like a language that lived for so long should)
The moreates (Peloponnesians) spoke one Greek dialect (actually in Peloponnesus there were more than one dialect e.g. tsakonika) the Cretans another Epirotes Macedonians and Thessalians another there were vlachs (aromanians) Eptanisian, Arcadocypriots, and many more Greek dialects, all those were Dialects of the same language (when two persons can understand each other they speak different dialects and not different languages, more like you and Bulgarians)
You did not have an official language until 1976 & if we go by your theory of our Macedonian language being "created" in 1944 by Tito, which is completely ridiculous btw, then it is still older than your language !
you can fill hundreds of libraries filled with Greek books. And that has a continuance we are talking about 1 or 2 books printed in a minimum number of copies to support propaganda.
we are talking about millions of books.
Katharevousa is a scholar language that any Greek can read (it is more sophisticated that the modern demotiki but never than less it is still Greek)
Fustanella is a Balcan traditional costume and it comes from the Roman Empire and Byzantium (we could say northern Epirus thaw) and not Albania, Albanians wearied it the most, and Greek honored it the most but it is a Balcan traditional costume and you should be proud of it (after all its the reason you are able today to live in a free nation and searching only for its name instead of living under ottoman occupation)
NONE ever thought about a nation with that name, they established the new Greek Kindom in the first Greek revolt, the Bulgarian state the Albanian even the multy ethnic Yugoslavia but none ever thought of a nation with that name.
You are wrong, the Macedonians did indeed think of liberating themselves and living in an independent Macedonia, separate from Bulgaria, Greece & Serbia - there are many documents (including Greek ones) to proove this !
considering the fact that our Prime Minister Harilaos Trikoupis afraid of the Bulgars invading Macedonia and never of a Macedonian nation
Its remarkable the fact that in the new evolving Balcans where the Ottoman occupation was retreating and new countries were getting free, none ever considered a possible Macedonia nation
He knew full well that the biggest threat to Greece's "Megali Idea" were the Bulgarians who had their sights set on occupying that same territory, Ethnic Macedonians were not given a chance to voice their opinions, most were mainly peasant villagers who were living in a slave-like mentality & of fear of reprisals from all sides. The only shining light was the VMRO who took up arms to defend Macedonia against its oppressors !
IMRO and not VMRO (the modern political party) was the Bulgarian "revolutional-occupational" army look the symbols they used.
And it was nothing like a light they were criminals who burned full villages when the slavophone people living there were saying that they were gkrzky (or something like that I am not good in slavic languages)
and it is quit admirable that no Bulgarians are mentioned in this map, its more than obvious that in a multiethnic as you say territory like Macedonia there should be Bulgarians also were did they go or better what is the name on this map that shows were Bulgarians lived
The map shows an array of ethnicities, i don't know what you're looking at ? As for no Bulgarians, well that is easy to answer - they are not on the map because they did not live in that region !
this person is a member of a political party called Vinozhito (that never came to elections on his own as a pary it only participated in the elections for the european parliament along with the gay community the won all together 4.530 votes -gay and slavophone greeks together-)
what can I say what ever suits you and helps you sleep well
You want to tell me that in a region which was (as you say multyethnic) with Greeks Turks and even Albanians there were not any Bulgarians living there? and our president was afraid of Bulgarians that didn't had any minority there?
King Otto was named King of the Greeks just like the French prince was named King of Spain and just like all over Europe tactic of putting only pure aristocrats on the throne of European kingdoms.
Second the map you are showing clearly writes Υπο Δημ. Λιθόξοου without informing your audience that that is not an old Greek map but a new propagandist map made by a member (Δημήτριος Λιθόξοος)
@Chovek1 Well HERODOTUS calls MACEDONIA the land far from Prasiada lake and Disiodus mountain that is defined from pinios river and Olympos mountain at the south. The residents of Macedonia, Macedonians or Macedonian nation was a GREEK RACE and more specifically, was for him Doric race that first inhabited Fthiotida with king Dephcalionas, next to Ossa and Olympus mountain with king Dorus and finally got kicked away by Cadmian people and finally resorted to Pindos.
Ancient Greeks and Ancient Macedonians were two different peoples, Ancient Greeks say so themselves, they also have described where Greek lands ended and that was at Epirus and Mount Olympus being the most northerly points.
The end of story is that you are from Skopje and have nothing to do with ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ which is Hellenic as Alexander the Great was Έλληνας υιός του Διός ( son of Zeus).Let me tell you something very friendly. U.s.a. uses you as a way to destroy Hellas and their plan is to exterminate you after their succesful.
You have no power to deal with them.Yes you can fight,but nothing you can do alone.You should stop this mindless propaganda against Greece and be our friends.We can change the world together but only by serving true history and not stupid theories that will never be proved...
Listen to yourself its you who is putting out stupid theories no one else ! The Americans know we are Macedonian, the whole world does for that matter, Greece takes the head in the sand approach concerning Macedonia
I too was taught english and i speak english sometimes but i speak Greek regularly,my language.If Alexander was from Skopje he would speak your language even though he was taught greek because he was a man of honor and he would honor his country. It is simple.
This is not an answer, you avoid to answer in what i said. Alexander was taught Greek because he was Greek and he honored Hellas, not ancient Peonia(Skopje).If he was from Skopje he would honor your country but we all know what he did.
Whats to understand stupid, you are Greek, i am Macedonian - end of story, as for Alexander - he was taught Greek but his mother tongue was Macedonian, he proves this by his statement at Pausanias' trial
You say :" a form which few ordinary Greeks (Albanians) could read." That means that if ordinary Greeks were Albanians then all the greeks after them are Albanians.Who are you trying to fool? Don't you understand the stupidity of your thinking?
What are you trying to prove with this video? That Greeks were conquerers of many of their land? You are lying and borders have been defined, come to terms with it.
"come to terms with it" thats easily said but alot of Macedonians died fighting Greek andart bands from 1904-1908 as well as in the Balkan wars defending their homeland, which was taken away from them and carved up between Greece and her friends
Have you seen part 2 to this ? i suggest you watch the last minute of the video showing the NYT clipping from 1908 and try explaining it to me please ?
You are lying when you say that king Otto saw nobody speaking greek. He saw many people speaking a dialect called arvanitika, but they were not Albanians.
Also for a dose of reality to what i said earlier about Greece previously recognizing the Macedonians and their language watch this video entitled "Greek documents confirm Macedonian ethnic identity " on youtube - do yourself a favor and educate yourself further
Greece declared its independence in 1830 not 1821, 1821 is when the war started & i wasnt talking about Greeces first President, i mention the first King of Modern Greece !
The name macedonia is part of a great historical heritage.You cannot just call yourself so,as if it was just a name that you invented.And especially when your country lies outside the borders of classical macedonia.Anyway good luck with your struggle to downgrade what you envy
Yes it is but one that has nothing to do with Ancient Greece or Modern Greece for Greeks in both ages said themselves that they are not related to such "Barbarians"
Yes, the term "barbarian" became a common term to refer to all foreigners. However in various occasions, the term was also used by the Athenians, to deride other Greek tribes and states (such as Epirotes and Macedonians) in a pejorative and politically motivated manner. Of course, the term also carried a cultural dimension to its dual meaning. The verb barbarízein in ancient Greek meant imitating the linguistic sounds non-Greeks made or making grammatical errors in Greek.
Having clarified the term "barbarian", I urge you to find some other -I really doubt if there are any- persuasive arguments. Unfortunately, you don't realize that the repetition of the same groundless arguments is condemned to utter failure.
It seems that you and other like-minded ones are graduates of the same school of propaganda of Tito and Gruevski. "Macedonian" conscience is a political invention and not an historical one, deal with it.
Many of you are talking about Macedonia's partition during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913).
But remember: In politics, a partition is a change of political borders cutting through at least one communitys homeland. That change is done primarily via diplomatic means, and use of military force is negligible.
Before 1912, Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire, as was Thrace. Where was the Macedonian statehood before 1912 and why isn't there a "Thracian ethnicity"?
"Where was the Macedonian statehood before 1912 ?" - are you serious dude ? Well where was the Albanian statehood before 1912 ? yet we all know Albanians existed back then don't we so your argument is weak ! Why after the partition was Albania made into a nation state yet not Macedonia ?
Yes, there was no Albanian statehood before 1912, but the Ottomans recognized a distinct Albanian ethnicity. The population you are referring to, were highly mixed local populations in the region of Macedonia.
Look at the census: There are only Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs and Albanians. Where were the "Macedonians"?
It's like arguing that Normandy "creates" Normans and not French; or Bavaria "creates" Bavarians and not Germans etc. Once again, your arguments are utterly weak.
According to the Ottoman census of Himli Pasha (1904): 1. Vilayet of Salonica: 373,227 Greeks & 207,317 Bulgarians 2. Vilayet of Monastir: Greeks: 261,283 & 178,412 Bulgarians 3. Sanjak of Skopje (part of the Vilayet of Kosovo) Greeks: 13,452 &172,735 Bulgarians Ottoman census of Hilmi Pasha for the region of Macedonia (1906): Muslims (Turks and Albanians): 423,000 (41.71%) Greeks: 259,000 (27.30%) Bulgarians: 178,000 (18.81%) Serbs: 13,150 (1.39%) Others: 73,000 (7.72%)
The so-called "ethnic Macedonian" customs are a mix of mainly Greek and Bulgarian and on to a lesser degree Albanian and Serbian cultural traditions.
This is evidenced in your language, which is 70 % Bulgarian, 15 % Serbian, 10 % Greek and 5 % Albanian. You are an ethnological mixture of your neighboring countries. You are locals living on the geographical and historical region of Macedonia. Ethnogenesis requires much more than just living in a region, deriving your identity from its name.
Our country does have a mixture of people but the majority are and forever will be Macedonians, it is OUR nation not anybody else's, Greece itself has the same mixture of people with Macedonians in the hundreds of thousands - just because Greece denies their existence as well as the other minorities - Vlachs, Albanians, Turks doesnt mean they are not there WAKE UP
Grand Vizier Hilmi Pasha himself (1855-1923) makes no reference to ethnic "Macedonians", unless, according to your "logic", the the so-called Macedonians were in fact Bulgarians. If they were Bulgarians, OK, then we can discuss on a different level.
No because even the Bulgarians knew the difference between the two, pity todays Greeks can't, can't say the same for Greeks of the past who did recognize the Macedonians as a people and their language as distinctly different to the others of the region
The Bulgarians knew the difference? If I am not wrong, Bulgaria doesn't recognize you as Macedonians. They recognized the geographical region of Macedonia and not the ethnicity. Even your language is not recognized by them, not to mention your Church which is not recognized by all Orthodox nations.
Yes they did and i quote "On 22 February 1999, the Bulgarians buried the hatchet with Skopje a short time before the Kosovo war by recognizing the existence of a Macedonian language, culture and nation separate from Bulgarian" - Macedonia : Warlords and rebels in the balkans, page 83
Well, I have to admit that you are at least a polite and debatable person.
So, are you implying that there are no Greek Macedonians? Macedonia -according to most respectable historians and etymologists- is a Greek name and has no connection whatsoever your Slavic background. If you ask me, I could recognize you as Slav-Macedonians.
The absurdity is that you are trying to cut off your Slavic roots by identifying yourselves with an ancient kingdom that was part of the Greek cultural heritage.
I am saying there are Greek Macedonians, but you must not confuse them with the Ethnic Macedonians who are the same people who also live in Republic of Macedonia as well as the Pirin part of Bulgaria. I will simplify it for you - the people you call Greek Macedonians are only Greek not Ethnic Macedonian they can't speak the Macedonian language.
Are you envisioning the liberation of the so-called Greater Macedonia? Do you regard the northern region of Greece which is within the borders of the ancient kingdom of Macedon as part of an unliberated whole? Why are you claiming Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian and Albanian territories?
I am not envisioning anything but i am making you aware of what happened in the past- dont twist history is what i'm saying ! The borders are what they are today and i can live with that - what i cant live with is Greeks not recognizing our existence as apeople and nation
So naturally when a debate springs up like this one i have to delve into the past to make my point understood 100%. all we want is for our minority in Greece and Bulgaria to have equal rights as any other person which is a fundamental human right !
Greece has a policy of negating our existence and has done terrible things in the past, why it simply cant learn to move ahead and start living in the 21st century as a multi-ethnic society is beyond me
Instead of being proud about its multi-ethnic society it instead holds onto old nationalist ideologies full of hatred, this kind of policy will in my opinion ultimately make Greece suffer in the future !
I also find it hypocritical of Greece when they have many communities outside of Greece like they do here in Melbourne, Australia who enjoy all the basic freedoms yet cant seem to instill that practice in their own homeland and do the same for the minorities there !
That's the real problem behind the naming dispute. It's very ridiculous to see a grotesque statue of Alexander the Great in the central square of Skopje or renaming the Petrovec airport into Alexander the Great. Isn't this an ultra-nationalistic policy?
Once again, I am telling you this, because I have visited your country many times over the last 20 years and my general opinion is that you are very hospitable as all Balkan people are.
I have nothing against any nation, ethnic or religious group. All I want is to respect history and to live in concordance with all neighboring countries. Bloodshed is widespread in Europe, especially in the Balkan Peninsula. We are neighbors, we have to live together. Respecting the borders of my country, means respecting the borders of your country. Greece has no territorial claims to your country. On the contrary, many textbooks in your country are pursuing the idea of a "United Macedonia".
I have seen alot of evidence about Greece also having territorial aspirations about our territory also, in 1992 Greece and Serbia made a secret pact to divide Macedonia once again - should we feel threatened over this ?
you didn't answer me what makes more macedonian a person that lives there and speaks slavic,than a person that speak latin or albanian for example(I dont say greek just to make your answer easier).I m not here to tell you that you are Bulgarians,Serbs or Greeks or anything,you feel you belong to separate identity,well done.This is the right to self identification(that you dont respcet when you call people gercomans).The ursupation of a name is identity theft and not self identification.
Well all those other nationalities identify themselves as they do - Bulgarian, Serbian, Albanian , Greek and who are we to dispute that - everyone has the right to self identity ! Just as we identify ourselves as Macedonians - we dont claim to be anything else unlike all our neighbours who all seem to think they are Macedonian and have more right to that name
We have the same right as each of them to call our selves what we feel we are & that is Macedonian. Now these neighbours of ours made their choice and none of them call themselves Macedonian - you cant have 2 identities, sorry that is just a fact !
If Macedonias neighbours cant accept that and respect our right to call ourselves Macedonians as we respect their decisions to self-identify as they wish then they can all go FUCK themselves sideways !
4.Nobody doubts that they were and still are Slavic speakers living in Macedonia.But if you we are speaking about the ancient Borders of Macedonia and not the Ottoman(which include the non macedonian Skopje,Kossovo,Kumanovo),the Slavic Speaking people were not the Vast majority and all the big city dwellers were Greeks(Salonika,Serres,kavala,Veroia).Even many of the Slavic speakers that we speak of consider themselves greek and had nothing to do with VMRO terrorists and seeked union with Greece
Not Slavic speakers you brainwashed sheep rather Macedonian speakers, there is no such slavic language. The Macedonians in Greece do consider themselves as Greek but in nationality only, but if you asked them what ethnicity they are they would tell you they're Macedonian, not Greek.
Ther was a Slavic language,a Greek,a Latin,Albanian,Turkish,ladino,gupsy ect.What makes you think that the Slavic language should be called macedonian,give me a reason.Greek and even Latin are much older in the region than your language.And dont call people thatr argue with you brainwashed,I ve got the excactly same opinion about your sad kind,but I avoided to do so.And dont call me sheep,you litlle man of slavic peasant stock unable for complex mental procedures and unable to fight.Loser-prey
"Ther was a Slavic language", which nation speaks it can you tell me ? Is it perhaps the Russians ? or maybe your friends the Serbs ? No they would tell you they speak Russian & Serbian respectively - sorry big FAIL !
"you litlle man of slavic peasant stock unable for complex mental procedures and unable to fight.Loser-prey " - my my did i strike a nerve ? that statement just shows how much you Greeks are up yourselves, thinking your better than the rest whilst branding others like myself as "peasents" - its good to see your comments will be seen so people can make up their own minds up about you !
You started with the insults,I never insult anybody unless I m intensivelly provoked to.This is the attidute of a polite person.On the other hand when you start something(the insults in our case-the actions of VMRO in the case of our nations.),and then complain and bitch about the reaction to your previous actions,it is typical peasant behaviour of a person with low morals.
1.Otto was not the first ruler of Greece,but I.Capodistrias
2.The albanian speaking population you speak of lived only around Athens,the vast majority of the Greek peninsila was greek speaking
3.The flag with the cross and the pattern with the lines,have been switched as the formal flag of Greece for many times since the creation of the state.The 70s was the last time that the flag was changed due to the abolishment of junta.Tha flag is based on the banner of Kolokotronis
You state what all Greek liars state and that is a croc of shit ! Macedonian was spoken in the 19th century and before, and certainly before 1944 as you claim, yes it was codified in 1944 but look at your own Greek language it wasnt made official until 1976 so that actually makes the Macedonian language older than yours, according to your logic !
Just because a language is similar to another language still does not make it the same, that excuse is getting very old & tiresome, think up something new its what you Greeks do best !
My language is MACEDONIAN and no dialect of anything let alone Bulgarian, you want to believe that so bad for your own pathetic reasons go ahead but you are the one who looks stupid not me
SuperGeorgiev, the language I speak and write today has no albanian sounds nor letters in it. The language you speak has 99.9% Bulgarian sounds and all but 4 Bulgarians letters in it...I might have been an Albanian once but your still a Bulgarian..check the facts bratchko! Razbervaz???
The language you speak is Greek - whatever that is ? - the language i speak is Macedonian and always will be, deal with it - calling it Bulgarian does not make it so ! Weak excuse.
so the most important is that u failed to answer to my question.u claimed that all greeks are albanians i asked u how and suddenly u talk to me for a population of 500.000 in a country of 1000000.
so in other words u failed to prove to me that Greeks are albanians or that ordinaryt greeks are albanians (since this was my question)People of Arvanite although we have evidences for the opposite, let's suppose that they have albanian ancestry.but they r only the 3% of the total population.if i am not wrong albanians in fyrom r more than 30% but i didn't say that original fyromians are albanians.
but the funniest part is that the majority of peloponesus was arvanites hahaha arvanites total population in greece is 500.000 and the half of them are in peloponesus, which has more than 1000000 people
aaaaaa hahahaha u r talking about arvanites.first of all in thessaly they were dispaered in 15th century cause of immigrating south so u can mention both thessaly on the one hand and epirus on the other since in epirus they were settled in a small part of thesprotia.
their own language and religion and learn the language of the local "greeks" (mostly converted Turks, Albanians and Vlachs). They were the living example of a new melting pot called greece.
In fact, more then 13.000 words are similar in Turkish and greek!!!
when you open your mouth and speak your language you prove to us of your origin. when we open ours and we speak our languge how do we prove to you that we are Albanians? we dont speak albanian but on the other hand you speak bulgarian...so who is what here??
So its ok to believe you when you say you dont speak Albanian but when i say i dont speak Bulgarian thats not ok ??? Greek democracy at work right there MORON !
but in the 6:09 you say ordinary greeks (albanians).I don't know those greeks but if ordinary greeks are albanians then the rest of greeks r not ordinary lol
LOL r u high on crack?if you support that Greeks are Albanians then do u have any evidence about that?Because generaly fyromians know how to speak with no evidences needed, because when a fyromian speaks he is always right and if you ask him to prove his claims...the biggest evidence is that he told is so it is right.
LOL you are unable to answer me in a comment dear historician why modern greeks are Albanians like you say?anyway offer me unstopable laugh with the way you want.either making vdeo or answer here etc.BTW neither my father from kastoria nor my mother from Crete could imagine that they are albanians so they wait from u to teach them what they are!
The main part of this group is composed by the Southern Greek dialectological group of Arbëreshë, known as Arvanites. They are a population group in Greece of, ultimately, Albanian origin who traditionally speak Arvanitika, a form of Tosk Albanian.
They settled in Greece during the late Middle Ages and were the dominant population element of some regions in the south of Greece until the 19th century. Arvanites today self-identify as Greeks and have largely assimilated into mainstream Greek culture. Arvanitika is endangered due to language shift towards Greek and large-scale internal migration to the cities in recent decades. From Wikipedia
NATO meeting just finished, guess what every member said to your rep? "You can wait at the 'waiting rooom" until Greece says that its ok to come ine". Geee you must be real dumpcunts to be constantly screwed by such arvanitovlachs for over 100 years now...) pliatsi pitchkas the lot of you...hehehehehe XXXX
I don't want Macedonia to join that bunch of racist filth especially when they can't think for themselves, but rather listen to the cries of its weakest member - Greece !
@arenotGreeks Kai poios milaei? O apogonos tou spermodoxeiou ton Valkanion, ta Makedonoidh!!! Kourvo!
serreosoo8 1 year ago
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between "its" and "it's" is unworthy of serious debate. Next!
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
Lol .... nothing else to say - don't worry about typo's ok !
Chovek1 2 years ago
LOL! It's not "typo's" either, you budala. The fact you have no clue how to use the apostrophe indicates to me that you lack a proper education. That would explain your inability to comprehend and interpret the historical texts you have cut and pasted here.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
I have had a better education than you could ever have you fuckwit, all you have been taught is bullshit and propaganda !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Oh, it shows. You can't even punctuate.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
Don't worry about the punctuation my dear Greek just enjoy the video !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Hate to break it to you, but your video contains nothing new. No earth-shattering revelations here. The fact we had a Bavarian king doesn't make us any less Greek, just like having German kings didn't stop the Brits from fighting two world wars against Germany.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
Unless you're going to call us Bavarians, now. Just add another one to the list.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
No not Bavarians, Arvanites suits you much better !
Chovek1 2 years ago
The Arvanites are but one of the subgroups of Hellenes. I belong to the Macedonian subgroup, and have nothing to do with the Arvanites, nor do I speak their language. Next.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
You're nothing but a half breed dude, thats all you will ever be ! Just like the Greek nation which is a mixture of a bit of everything, it just refuses to face reality !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Look who's talking about refusing to accept reality. You think you're pure, do you? You're a mongrel mixture of Bulgar, Slav, Greek, Albanian, Turkish, Vlach, gypsy and whatever else you can think of, except of course Macedonian.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
Lol, don't think so !
Chovek1 2 years ago
You believe you're a pure, undefiled "Macedonoid" anointed by "God", do you?
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
A bre tikve!
You think that Arvanites are Albanians?
Why?
Because they speak the Toscic dialect?
And what are you that you ludo that speak Serbobulgarian?
Ako rasbiras tova?
Ti si NE Makedonec, ti si Bugarsko!
Sikvais tova!
Well Arvanites after all even mixed Greeks-Albanians are still NATIVES!!!
Do you GET IT TATAR??
serreosoo8 2 years ago
Abre tikvo, Athens was an Albanian village in 1830 be zaspan, look at a map and prove me wrong ! you must have me confused with the Bugari calling me Tatar lol !!!
Chovek1 2 years ago
eeeh that was my point kukumafka!
Based in the language (according to you):
Arvanites=Albanians
Same thought:
Monkeydonians=Bugari
After all your comitaji great-grandfathers fought for them, or for an "autonomous Macedonia" like "autonomous East Rumellia" soon to be annexed by Bulgaria!
serreosoo8 2 years ago
Really ? if you think the Macedonians fought for Bulgaria your more stupid than i thought, they only fought for an undependent Macedonia. There was no need for them to fight for Bulgaria - who btw already had their independence (since 1878) but created by Russia as a puppet state of theirs !
Chovek1 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Chovek1
It is historically proven that the Yugoslavian Democracy of Macedonia was created by Stalin, Tito and Dimitrov, aiming at the stealthy removal of a large part of Northern Greece. This Democracy was used during the period 1944-1949 in order to destabilise Greece."
(Thomas Niles, US Ambassador, 23rd June 1992, SubCommittee of US Congress)
[]][]
2005defender 1 year ago
Calling me a Bulgarian is just a pathetic attempt of yours to unnerve me an my people but ahh how you forget how Bulgaria invaded and occupied our land in WW@ and commited atrocities against the people ! If the population was Bulgarian then why would the Bulgarian Army do this to their "own" people ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
I stopped watching at 00:13.
MAKEDANOS 2 years ago
Like i give a fuck !
Chovek1 2 years ago
And last the Greek state was not freed in a night yes it took us a lot of time and a lot of blood to make our Free State. You see we didnt had Austria like Albanians did or NATO like you did, we had to fight with our own hands for our freedom.
diavoliaris 2 years ago
You gained your independence through the help of the Great Powers, so yes you did have major help ! We unfortunately did'nt gain our independence in the Ottoman times, and thereafter in the Balkan Wars due to your country and your Allies dividing it up between yourselves, we however did liberate our country in 1944 on our own & gained independence on our own in 1991 from the Yugoslav Federation WITHOUT OUTSIDE HELP. Nato did not help us, we did it ourselves !
Chovek1 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Chovek1
Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery....
.
I am Alexander of Macedon."
(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)
WHAT NATIONALITY WAS ALEXANDER?????
LOUDER CHOVEK LOUDER
2005defender 2 years ago
Stop spamming on my videos repeatedly posting the same shit is tiresome !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
I.m not spamminf mate
i just tryin to get a descent answer from you
I havent swear did I?
2005defender 2 years ago
@Chovek1
plus its the first time i posted on your videos
2005defender 2 years ago
Yeah but you post this shit on other videos too which is spamming !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
you just cant handling the truth right?
2005defender 2 years ago
Truth, gimme a break dude, you wouldnt know the truth it if it hit you in the face
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1 Ancient Greek Historty is studied on EVERY University of the World excepr Skopjie
OF THE WORLD fyromian History Stealer
2005defender 2 years ago
Yes you said that before, see this is what i mean by you posting the same shit all the time
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
it hurts when you are a liar
2005defender 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Chovek1 ...Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..."
Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4 (Loeb, P. A. Brunt) - 95-175 AD
Is there anything else to say ??
??
2005defender 2 years ago
Kathareuousa was established as a scholar language and Demotiki was a simplified dialect established in the modern days, Greek language is one, but it has many variands through the ages (just like a language that lived for so long should)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
See below !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Greek language
The moreates (Peloponnesians) spoke one Greek dialect (actually in Peloponnesus there were more than one dialect e.g. tsakonika) the Cretans another Epirotes Macedonians and Thessalians another there were vlachs (aromanians) Eptanisian, Arcadocypriots, and many more Greek dialects, all those were Dialects of the same language (when two persons can understand each other they speak different dialects and not different languages, more like you and Bulgarians)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
You did not have an official language until 1976 & if we go by your theory of our Macedonian language being "created" in 1944 by Tito, which is completely ridiculous btw, then it is still older than your language !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
WTF are talking about?
you can fill hundreds of libraries filled with Greek books. And that has a continuance we are talking about 1 or 2 books printed in a minimum number of copies to support propaganda.
we are talking about millions of books.
Katharevousa is a scholar language that any Greek can read (it is more sophisticated that the modern demotiki but never than less it is still Greek)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
@Chovek1
kathareuousa was here for centuries it was the natural evolution of the ancient Greek language.
If you see Greek language thought ages you will see a continuance.
We have documents from antiquity, medieval times, Turkish occupation, and modern,
there isn't a time inb history that you can't find Greek writings
diavoliaris 2 years ago
Fustanella is a Balcan traditional costume and it comes from the Roman Empire and Byzantium (we could say northern Epirus thaw) and not Albania, Albanians wearied it the most, and Greek honored it the most but it is a Balcan traditional costume and you should be proud of it (after all its the reason you are able today to live in a free nation and searching only for its name instead of living under ottoman occupation)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
The fustanella is Albanian
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
What ever suits propaganda
I wont write the same again
diavoliaris 2 years ago
NONE ever thought about a nation with that name, they established the new Greek Kindom in the first Greek revolt, the Bulgarian state the Albanian even the multy ethnic Yugoslavia but none ever thought of a nation with that name.
diavoliaris 2 years ago
You are wrong, the Macedonians did indeed think of liberating themselves and living in an independent Macedonia, separate from Bulgaria, Greece & Serbia - there are many documents (including Greek ones) to proove this !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
no my friend they told you that there are many documents...
that doesn't mean that these documents actually exist
diavoliaris 2 years ago
considering the fact that our Prime Minister Harilaos Trikoupis afraid of the Bulgars invading Macedonia and never of a Macedonian nation
Its remarkable the fact that in the new evolving Balcans where the Ottoman occupation was retreating and new countries were getting free, none ever considered a possible Macedonia nation
diavoliaris 2 years ago
He knew full well that the biggest threat to Greece's "Megali Idea" were the Bulgarians who had their sights set on occupying that same territory, Ethnic Macedonians were not given a chance to voice their opinions, most were mainly peasant villagers who were living in a slave-like mentality & of fear of reprisals from all sides. The only shining light was the VMRO who took up arms to defend Macedonia against its oppressors !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
IMRO and not VMRO (the modern political party) was the Bulgarian "revolutional-occupational" army look the symbols they used.
And it was nothing like a light they were criminals who burned full villages when the slavophone people living there were saying that they were gkrzky (or something like that I am not good in slavic languages)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
and it is quit admirable that no Bulgarians are mentioned in this map, its more than obvious that in a multiethnic as you say territory like Macedonia there should be Bulgarians also were did they go or better what is the name on this map that shows were Bulgarians lived
diavoliaris 2 years ago
The map shows an array of ethnicities, i don't know what you're looking at ? As for no Bulgarians, well that is easy to answer - they are not on the map because they did not live in that region !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1
the map is signed
"Υπο Δημ. Λιθόξοου"
this person is a member of a political party called Vinozhito (that never came to elections on his own as a pary it only participated in the elections for the european parliament along with the gay community the won all together 4.530 votes -gay and slavophone greeks together-)
so this modern map is hardly "evidence"...
diavoliaris 2 years ago
@Chovek1
as for Bulgarians...
what can I say what ever suits you and helps you sleep well
You want to tell me that in a region which was (as you say multyethnic) with Greeks Turks and even Albanians there were not any Bulgarians living there? and our president was afraid of Bulgarians that didn't had any minority there?
are you delusional?
what kind of pills you use?
diavoliaris 2 years ago
Ok lets set things straight
First of all
King Otto was named King of the Greeks just like the French prince was named King of Spain and just like all over Europe tactic of putting only pure aristocrats on the throne of European kingdoms.
Second the map you are showing clearly writes Υπο Δημ. Λιθόξοου without informing your audience that that is not an old Greek map but a new propagandist map made by a member (Δημήτριος Λιθόξοος)
diavoliaris 2 years ago
It's always propaganda when you see something you don't like or agree with !
Chovek1 2 years ago
@Chovek1 Well HERODOTUS calls MACEDONIA the land far from Prasiada lake and Disiodus mountain that is defined from pinios river and Olympos mountain at the south. The residents of Macedonia, Macedonians or Macedonian nation was a GREEK RACE and more specifically, was for him Doric race that first inhabited Fthiotida with king Dephcalionas, next to Ossa and Olympus mountain with king Dorus and finally got kicked away by Cadmian people and finally resorted to Pindos.
Yi4nNiC 2 years ago
also in GREEK MITHOLOGY there are 3 definitions for Macedonia's name:
1.From MACEDONAS son of EOLOS(ancient greek god of wind)
2.From MACEDONAS son of LYKAONAS(King of Imathias and father of Pindos)
3.From MACEDONAS son of ZEUS and THYIA(daughter of Deukalionas) that gave birth to Amathon and Pierion (whose name was given to PIERIA mountains)
WELL I DONT THINK HERODOTUS PURPOSE WAS PROPAGANDA...
Yi4nNiC 2 years ago
Ancient Greeks and Ancient Macedonians were two different peoples, Ancient Greeks say so themselves, they also have described where Greek lands ended and that was at Epirus and Mount Olympus being the most northerly points.
Chovek1 2 years ago
The end of story is that you are from Skopje and have nothing to do with ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ which is Hellenic as Alexander the Great was Έλληνας υιός του Διός ( son of Zeus).Let me tell you something very friendly. U.s.a. uses you as a way to destroy Hellas and their plan is to exterminate you after their succesful.
KETSAP 2 years ago
You read too much conspiracy theories !
Chovek1 2 years ago
All that thing we call life is a conspiracy,but if someone wanted to make you a robot , you would not be able to understand this !!!
KETSAP 2 years ago
Oh and if you happen to be right (long shot) then we will deal with them also !
Chovek1 2 years ago
You have no power to deal with them.Yes you can fight,but nothing you can do alone.You should stop this mindless propaganda against Greece and be our friends.We can change the world together but only by serving true history and not stupid theories that will never be proved...
KETSAP 2 years ago
Listen to yourself its you who is putting out stupid theories no one else ! The Americans know we are Macedonian, the whole world does for that matter, Greece takes the head in the sand approach concerning Macedonia
Chovek1 2 years ago
When their bombs fall on your head,call me stupid. American's know you are NOT Macedonians but they USE YOU to destroy Hellas.
They try to fight Greeks in every way possible and one way is by using you.Believe it or not !!!
KETSAP 2 years ago
I too was taught english and i speak english sometimes but i speak Greek regularly,my language.If Alexander was from Skopje he would speak your language even though he was taught greek because he was a man of honor and he would honor his country. It is simple.
KETSAP 2 years ago
Well good for you but i speak Macedonian at home !
Chovek1 2 years ago
This is not an answer, you avoid to answer in what i said. Alexander was taught Greek because he was Greek and he honored Hellas, not ancient Peonia(Skopje).If he was from Skopje he would honor your country but we all know what he did.
KETSAP 2 years ago
Yes, but YOU are the one who writes stupid things not me.You don't even understand your arguments !!!
Oh ,and Alexander the Great and Aristoteles spoke my language not your's and if you got any brains you should understand what that means.
KETSAP 2 years ago
Whats to understand stupid, you are Greek, i am Macedonian - end of story, as for Alexander - he was taught Greek but his mother tongue was Macedonian, he proves this by his statement at Pausanias' trial
Chovek1 2 years ago
They don't care about you (Skopje) or us and they make you believe that you have something to win out of this stupid propaganda.
What you try to do to Hellas ,will fall back to your heads,just remember that.
KETSAP 2 years ago
You say :" a form which few ordinary Greeks (Albanians) could read." That means that if ordinary Greeks were Albanians then all the greeks after them are Albanians.Who are you trying to fool? Don't you understand the stupidity of your thinking?
KETSAP 2 years ago
The only thing i think is stupid is you if you believe you are Macedonian !
Chovek1 2 years ago
In 6:08 what are you trying to say? That all Greeks of today are Albanian's?
KETSAP 2 years ago 3
No i'm talking about the mid 19th century
Chovek1 2 years ago
What are you trying to prove with this video? That Greeks were conquerers of many of their land? You are lying and borders have been defined, come to terms with it.
eliopoulosgiannis 2 years ago 3
"come to terms with it" thats easily said but alot of Macedonians died fighting Greek andart bands from 1904-1908 as well as in the Balkan wars defending their homeland, which was taken away from them and carved up between Greece and her friends
Chovek1 2 years ago
Have you seen part 2 to this ? i suggest you watch the last minute of the video showing the NYT clipping from 1908 and try explaining it to me please ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
You are lying when you say that king Otto saw nobody speaking greek. He saw many people speaking a dialect called arvanitika, but they were not Albanians.
eliopoulosgiannis 2 years ago 4
Watch the video i talked about in my previous post - it will do you good i promise you will have no further questions
Chovek1 2 years ago
Also for a dose of reality to what i said earlier about Greece previously recognizing the Macedonians and their language watch this video entitled "Greek documents confirm Macedonian ethnic identity " on youtube - do yourself a favor and educate yourself further
Chovek1 2 years ago
the most ANTI-Historian video
and stupid too!!
Greece declare independance in 1821
and first President was Ioannis kapodistrias!
ThracianRhodope 2 years ago 5
Greece declared its independence in 1830 not 1821, 1821 is when the war started & i wasnt talking about Greeces first President, i mention the first King of Modern Greece !
Chovek1 2 years ago
The name macedonia is part of a great historical heritage.You cannot just call yourself so,as if it was just a name that you invented.And especially when your country lies outside the borders of classical macedonia.Anyway good luck with your struggle to downgrade what you envy
gkioniskk 2 years ago 3
Yes it is but one that has nothing to do with Ancient Greece or Modern Greece for Greeks in both ages said themselves that they are not related to such "Barbarians"
Chovek1 2 years ago
Yes, the term "barbarian" became a common term to refer to all foreigners. However in various occasions, the term was also used by the Athenians, to deride other Greek tribes and states (such as Epirotes and Macedonians) in a pejorative and politically motivated manner. Of course, the term also carried a cultural dimension to its dual meaning. The verb barbarízein in ancient Greek meant imitating the linguistic sounds non-Greeks made or making grammatical errors in Greek.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
Big Fail !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Having clarified the term "barbarian", I urge you to find some other -I really doubt if there are any- persuasive arguments. Unfortunately, you don't realize that the repetition of the same groundless arguments is condemned to utter failure.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
Again Big Fail !
Chovek1 2 years ago
It seems that you and other like-minded ones are graduates of the same school of propaganda of Tito and Gruevski. "Macedonian" conscience is a political invention and not an historical one, deal with it.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
I don't think so buddy - but keep trying to convince the world of this & good luck with that - you'll need it !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Many of you are talking about Macedonia's partition during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913).
But remember: In politics, a partition is a change of political borders cutting through at least one communitys homeland. That change is done primarily via diplomatic means, and use of military force is negligible.
Before 1912, Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire, as was Thrace. Where was the Macedonian statehood before 1912 and why isn't there a "Thracian ethnicity"?
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
"Where was the Macedonian statehood before 1912 ?" - are you serious dude ? Well where was the Albanian statehood before 1912 ? yet we all know Albanians existed back then don't we so your argument is weak ! Why after the partition was Albania made into a nation state yet not Macedonia ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
Yes, there was no Albanian statehood before 1912, but the Ottomans recognized a distinct Albanian ethnicity. The population you are referring to, were highly mixed local populations in the region of Macedonia.
Look at the census: There are only Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs and Albanians. Where were the "Macedonians"?
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
It's like arguing that Normandy "creates" Normans and not French; or Bavaria "creates" Bavarians and not Germans etc. Once again, your arguments are utterly weak.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 3
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
I explain my answer to this in the video entitled "Ethnic Macedonians dancing in Greece"
Chovek1 2 years ago
The so-called "ethnic Macedonian" customs are a mix of mainly Greek and Bulgarian and on to a lesser degree Albanian and Serbian cultural traditions.
This is evidenced in your language, which is 70 % Bulgarian, 15 % Serbian, 10 % Greek and 5 % Albanian. You are an ethnological mixture of your neighboring countries. You are locals living on the geographical and historical region of Macedonia. Ethnogenesis requires much more than just living in a region, deriving your identity from its name.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 5
Our country does have a mixture of people but the majority are and forever will be Macedonians, it is OUR nation not anybody else's, Greece itself has the same mixture of people with Macedonians in the hundreds of thousands - just because Greece denies their existence as well as the other minorities - Vlachs, Albanians, Turks doesnt mean they are not there WAKE UP
Chovek1 2 years ago
Ethnic purity is pure nonsense nowadays. I am talking about ethnogenesis and not Nazi theories about superior races and crap like this.
That's why I am referring to Slav-Macedonians, to distinguish from Greek Macedonians.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
Grand Vizier Hilmi Pasha himself (1855-1923) makes no reference to ethnic "Macedonians", unless, according to your "logic", the the so-called Macedonians were in fact Bulgarians. If they were Bulgarians, OK, then we can discuss on a different level.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
No because even the Bulgarians knew the difference between the two, pity todays Greeks can't, can't say the same for Greeks of the past who did recognize the Macedonians as a people and their language as distinctly different to the others of the region
Chovek1 2 years ago
The Bulgarians knew the difference? If I am not wrong, Bulgaria doesn't recognize you as Macedonians. They recognized the geographical region of Macedonia and not the ethnicity. Even your language is not recognized by them, not to mention your Church which is not recognized by all Orthodox nations.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
Yes they did and i quote "On 22 February 1999, the Bulgarians buried the hatchet with Skopje a short time before the Kosovo war by recognizing the existence of a Macedonian language, culture and nation separate from Bulgarian" - Macedonia : Warlords and rebels in the balkans, page 83
Chovek1 2 years ago
I suggest you catch up with recent events before posting crap
Chovek1 2 years ago
Well, I have to admit that you are at least a polite and debatable person.
So, are you implying that there are no Greek Macedonians? Macedonia -according to most respectable historians and etymologists- is a Greek name and has no connection whatsoever your Slavic background. If you ask me, I could recognize you as Slav-Macedonians.
The absurdity is that you are trying to cut off your Slavic roots by identifying yourselves with an ancient kingdom that was part of the Greek cultural heritage.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
I am saying there are Greek Macedonians, but you must not confuse them with the Ethnic Macedonians who are the same people who also live in Republic of Macedonia as well as the Pirin part of Bulgaria. I will simplify it for you - the people you call Greek Macedonians are only Greek not Ethnic Macedonian they can't speak the Macedonian language.
Chovek1 2 years ago
Are you envisioning the liberation of the so-called Greater Macedonia? Do you regard the northern region of Greece which is within the borders of the ancient kingdom of Macedon as part of an unliberated whole? Why are you claiming Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian and Albanian territories?
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
I am not envisioning anything but i am making you aware of what happened in the past- dont twist history is what i'm saying ! The borders are what they are today and i can live with that - what i cant live with is Greeks not recognizing our existence as apeople and nation
Chovek1 2 years ago
So naturally when a debate springs up like this one i have to delve into the past to make my point understood 100%. all we want is for our minority in Greece and Bulgaria to have equal rights as any other person which is a fundamental human right !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Greece has a policy of negating our existence and has done terrible things in the past, why it simply cant learn to move ahead and start living in the 21st century as a multi-ethnic society is beyond me
Chovek1 2 years ago
Instead of being proud about its multi-ethnic society it instead holds onto old nationalist ideologies full of hatred, this kind of policy will in my opinion ultimately make Greece suffer in the future !
Chovek1 2 years ago
I also find it hypocritical of Greece when they have many communities outside of Greece like they do here in Melbourne, Australia who enjoy all the basic freedoms yet cant seem to instill that practice in their own homeland and do the same for the minorities there !
Chovek1 2 years ago
That's the real problem behind the naming dispute. It's very ridiculous to see a grotesque statue of Alexander the Great in the central square of Skopje or renaming the Petrovec airport into Alexander the Great. Isn't this an ultra-nationalistic policy?
Once again, I am telling you this, because I have visited your country many times over the last 20 years and my general opinion is that you are very hospitable as all Balkan people are.
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
But why shouldnt there be a statue of him in Skopje after all he was Macedonian, whats the problem ? Are you going to say he was not Macedonian ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
We dont go crying about all the statues you have of him in Greek- Macedonia, no need to
Chovek1 2 years ago
I have nothing against any nation, ethnic or religious group. All I want is to respect history and to live in concordance with all neighboring countries. Bloodshed is widespread in Europe, especially in the Balkan Peninsula. We are neighbors, we have to live together. Respecting the borders of my country, means respecting the borders of your country. Greece has no territorial claims to your country. On the contrary, many textbooks in your country are pursuing the idea of a "United Macedonia".
Yannisastra 2 years ago 4
I have seen alot of evidence about Greece also having territorial aspirations about our territory also, in 1992 Greece and Serbia made a secret pact to divide Macedonia once again - should we feel threatened over this ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
you didn't answer me what makes more macedonian a person that lives there and speaks slavic,than a person that speak latin or albanian for example(I dont say greek just to make your answer easier).I m not here to tell you that you are Bulgarians,Serbs or Greeks or anything,you feel you belong to separate identity,well done.This is the right to self identification(that you dont respcet when you call people gercomans).The ursupation of a name is identity theft and not self identification.
gkioniskk 2 years ago 4
Well all those other nationalities identify themselves as they do - Bulgarian, Serbian, Albanian , Greek and who are we to dispute that - everyone has the right to self identity ! Just as we identify ourselves as Macedonians - we dont claim to be anything else unlike all our neighbours who all seem to think they are Macedonian and have more right to that name
Chovek1 2 years ago
We have the same right as each of them to call our selves what we feel we are & that is Macedonian. Now these neighbours of ours made their choice and none of them call themselves Macedonian - you cant have 2 identities, sorry that is just a fact !
Chovek1 2 years ago
And it looks very ridiculous when all 4 of our neighbours claim to be Macedonian when they are all very different !!! Not possible
Chovek1 2 years ago
If Macedonias neighbours cant accept that and respect our right to call ourselves Macedonians as we respect their decisions to self-identify as they wish then they can all go FUCK themselves sideways !
Chovek1 2 years ago
4.Nobody doubts that they were and still are Slavic speakers living in Macedonia.But if you we are speaking about the ancient Borders of Macedonia and not the Ottoman(which include the non macedonian Skopje,Kossovo,Kumanovo),the Slavic Speaking people were not the Vast majority and all the big city dwellers were Greeks(Salonika,Serres,kavala,Veroia).Even many of the Slavic speakers that we speak of consider themselves greek and had nothing to do with VMRO terrorists and seeked union with Greece
gkioniskk 2 years ago 4
Not Slavic speakers you brainwashed sheep rather Macedonian speakers, there is no such slavic language. The Macedonians in Greece do consider themselves as Greek but in nationality only, but if you asked them what ethnicity they are they would tell you they're Macedonian, not Greek.
Chovek1 2 years ago
Ther was a Slavic language,a Greek,a Latin,Albanian,Turkish,ladino,gupsy ect.What makes you think that the Slavic language should be called macedonian,give me a reason.Greek and even Latin are much older in the region than your language.And dont call people thatr argue with you brainwashed,I ve got the excactly same opinion about your sad kind,but I avoided to do so.And dont call me sheep,you litlle man of slavic peasant stock unable for complex mental procedures and unable to fight.Loser-prey
gkioniskk 2 years ago 3
"Ther was a Slavic language", which nation speaks it can you tell me ? Is it perhaps the Russians ? or maybe your friends the Serbs ? No they would tell you they speak Russian & Serbian respectively - sorry big FAIL !
Chovek1 2 years ago
"you litlle man of slavic peasant stock unable for complex mental procedures and unable to fight.Loser-prey " - my my did i strike a nerve ? that statement just shows how much you Greeks are up yourselves, thinking your better than the rest whilst branding others like myself as "peasents" - its good to see your comments will be seen so people can make up their own minds up about you !
Chovek1 2 years ago
You started with the insults,I never insult anybody unless I m intensivelly provoked to.This is the attidute of a polite person.On the other hand when you start something(the insults in our case-the actions of VMRO in the case of our nations.),and then complain and bitch about the reaction to your previous actions,it is typical peasant behaviour of a person with low morals.
gkioniskk 2 years ago 3
Huh i wasn't upset by your insults unlike yourself, i just found your comments really stupid and i'm sure anyone else reading them would also
Chovek1 2 years ago
A few inaccuracies
1.Otto was not the first ruler of Greece,but I.Capodistrias
2.The albanian speaking population you speak of lived only around Athens,the vast majority of the Greek peninsila was greek speaking
3.The flag with the cross and the pattern with the lines,have been switched as the formal flag of Greece for many times since the creation of the state.The 70s was the last time that the flag was changed due to the abolishment of junta.Tha flag is based on the banner of Kolokotronis
gkioniskk 2 years ago 3
I dont think so but its good to see you are keeping up the propaganda
Chovek1 2 years ago
Macedonian was spoken a long time before 1944 my gayreek friend - how long will you go on with your ridiculous propaganda ?
Chovek1 2 years ago
You state what all Greek liars state and that is a croc of shit ! Macedonian was spoken in the 19th century and before, and certainly before 1944 as you claim, yes it was codified in 1944 but look at your own Greek language it wasnt made official until 1976 so that actually makes the Macedonian language older than yours, according to your logic !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Just because a language is similar to another language still does not make it the same, that excuse is getting very old & tiresome, think up something new its what you Greeks do best !
Chovek1 2 years ago
My language is MACEDONIAN and no dialect of anything let alone Bulgarian, you want to believe that so bad for your own pathetic reasons go ahead but you are the one who looks stupid not me
Chovek1 2 years ago
SuperGeorgiev, the language I speak and write today has no albanian sounds nor letters in it. The language you speak has 99.9% Bulgarian sounds and all but 4 Bulgarians letters in it...I might have been an Albanian once but your still a Bulgarian..check the facts bratchko! Razbervaz???
ThePsaras 2 years ago 3
The language you speak is Greek - whatever that is ? - the language i speak is Macedonian and always will be, deal with it - calling it Bulgarian does not make it so ! Weak excuse.
Chovek1 2 years ago
so the most important is that u failed to answer to my question.u claimed that all greeks are albanians i asked u how and suddenly u talk to me for a population of 500.000 in a country of 1000000.
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
so in other words u failed to prove to me that Greeks are albanians or that ordinaryt greeks are albanians (since this was my question)People of Arvanite although we have evidences for the opposite, let's suppose that they have albanian ancestry.but they r only the 3% of the total population.if i am not wrong albanians in fyrom r more than 30% but i didn't say that original fyromians are albanians.
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
but the funniest part is that the majority of peloponesus was arvanites hahaha arvanites total population in greece is 500.000 and the half of them are in peloponesus, which has more than 1000000 people
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
aaaaaa hahahaha u r talking about arvanites.first of all in thessaly they were dispaered in 15th century cause of immigrating south so u can mention both thessaly on the one hand and epirus on the other since in epirus they were settled in a small part of thesprotia.
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
They had no other option then to give up
their own language and religion and learn the language of the local "greeks" (mostly converted Turks, Albanians and Vlachs). They were the living example of a new melting pot called greece.
In fact, more then 13.000 words are similar in Turkish and greek!!!
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
We all know that the Karamanlides from Turkish ANATOLIA / ANADOLU were very different then the greeks on the mainland
They spoke KaramanTurkeci and some spoke very little greek that was stuck on a medieval level very strong influenced by the Turks.
And after they came to the mainland of greece they were discriminated for that.
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
Additionally, the dictatorship of Ioannis Metaxas saw a further dwindling of the usage of Karamanli Türkçesi in Greece
due to the strict laws which FORBADE the use of the Turkish language in public.
This was an instance of FORCED!! assimilation to CUT the ties of Turkish cultural INFLUENCE over the Greeks.
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
During the latter part of the 20th century, the language is still spoken in ANADOLU. Also a unknown number of older speakers in Greece remain.
The younger generation has become fully integrated within Greek society and have not collectively retained their ANCESTRAL language.
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
The KARAMANLIDES were speaking a dialect of the Turkish language same with Anatolian Turkomans.
Its vocabulary drew OVERWHELMINGLY from Turkic words with only MINIMAL Greek loan words.
The language should not be confused with Cappadocian Greek.
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
KARAMANLIDES is an umbrella term used to describe ALL ORTODOX Christians in Central Anatolia who had adopted Turkish as their PRIMARY language.
It is derived from the 13th century Beylik of Karamano.
They were the first Turkish kingdom to adopt Turkish as its official language and originally the term would only
describe the inhabitants of the town of Karaman or from the region of Karaman.
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
when you open your mouth and speak your language you prove to us of your origin. when we open ours and we speak our languge how do we prove to you that we are Albanians? we dont speak albanian but on the other hand you speak bulgarian...so who is what here??
ThePsaras 2 years ago 2
So its ok to believe you when you say you dont speak Albanian but when i say i dont speak Bulgarian thats not ok ??? Greek democracy at work right there MORON !
Chovek1 2 years ago
hey psaras, when your not of Albanian heritage then maybe KARAMANLIDES suits you better
"In the population exchanges that took place during the summer of 1924, Turkey and Greece agreed to transfer their
minority populations based on RELIGIOUS background, rather than on ethnicity or language.Like the Muslims of Greece
(such as the Epirus and Cretan Turks) were deported to Turkey,
while the Orthodox Christians were moved to Greece,including the KARAMANLI."
SuperGeorgiev 2 years ago
but in the 6:09 you say ordinary greeks (albanians).I don't know those greeks but if ordinary greeks are albanians then the rest of greeks r not ordinary lol
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
There is no "rest of greeks" i'm talking about them as a whole stupid !
Chovek1 2 years ago
LOL r u high on crack?if you support that Greeks are Albanians then do u have any evidence about that?Because generaly fyromians know how to speak with no evidences needed, because when a fyromian speaks he is always right and if you ask him to prove his claims...the biggest evidence is that he told is so it is right.
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
No i'm not on crack - far from it & yes i do have evidence, if you like i can make a little video about it for your amusement !
Chovek1 2 years ago
LOL you are unable to answer me in a comment dear historician why modern greeks are Albanians like you say?anyway offer me unstopable laugh with the way you want.either making vdeo or answer here etc.BTW neither my father from kastoria nor my mother from Crete could imagine that they are albanians so they wait from u to teach them what they are!
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
It is a well known fact that when King Otto came to Greece in 1832 the population of Athens was predominantly Albanian
Chovek1 2 years ago
Actually the majority of the peloponese was Albanian
Chovek1 2 years ago
Haha not to mention thessaly and epirus too !
Chovek1 2 years ago
Arvanites
The main part of this group is composed by the Southern Greek dialectological group of Arbëreshë, known as Arvanites. They are a population group in Greece of, ultimately, Albanian origin who traditionally speak Arvanitika, a form of Tosk Albanian.
Chovek1 2 years ago
They settled in Greece during the late Middle Ages and were the dominant population element of some regions in the south of Greece until the 19th century. Arvanites today self-identify as Greeks and have largely assimilated into mainstream Greek culture. Arvanitika is endangered due to language shift towards Greek and large-scale internal migration to the cities in recent decades. From Wikipedia
Chovek1 2 years ago
from the last videos i see in YT i can understand that Fyromians are in lovce with the modern greek history.
Makedonphilipos 2 years ago
NATO meeting just finished, guess what every member said to your rep? "You can wait at the 'waiting rooom" until Greece says that its ok to come ine". Geee you must be real dumpcunts to be constantly screwed by such arvanitovlachs for over 100 years now...) pliatsi pitchkas the lot of you...hehehehehe XXXX
ThePsaras 2 years ago
I don't want Macedonia to join that bunch of racist filth especially when they can't think for themselves, but rather listen to the cries of its weakest member - Greece !
Chovek1 2 years ago