Camp Inquiry: Where kids explore reason, science, skepticism

[MrJohnnyrace]

Thank you for not being a jesus camp of lies.

[Londron]

<3 living in europe. Would probably try to get send home as soon as possible if I was send to one of those weird Godcamps.

Knowing that kind of people I doubt that would be a hard thing to do.

[doctormurray91]

Wish I went to one of these. All I got was a bunch of bible camp summers. :(

[childofreletivity]

well its something $200 to go to one of these camps i think witch i highly doupt my parents would let me go there because i havent told them i'm an agnostic atheist and my mothers quite a strong believer so they would never let me go but its for skeptiks

[Josh111485]

I wish Camp Quest was around when I was a kid! I'll have to volunteer for the next one! :-)

[tuktuktok]

They are raising a generation of militant atheists. In secret they probably target practice on portaits of great christian people. No seriously, this "militant atheist" stuff is bullshit. How often do you read in the papers that "ten die as militant atheists raid the agnostic strongold."

[dezrah]

I can't think of anything better. Why didn't this exist when I was a kid? Of course, if it did exist, I wouldn't have been allowed to go, but that's not the point!

Fantastic work you're doing there, bravo!

[AllHailLordKabuto]

I was at the camp last year. It was a wonderful camp as camps go. Well, the camp part was. The activities were fun, at least. Not so much the other kids. And by that I mean I was stuck in a cabin with four whiny scene girls who liked to snoop in peoples stuff. And would not shut up. I finally just moved out of the room. I don't really care if they read this or not. Anyway, though it is a great idea for a camp, I think I'll just stay home instead.

[shonester]

Are they active, do singalongs, and other things kids should do at camp? Or do they only debate reason?

[TheRealEricLester]

@shonester I dunno watch the videos

[NotTooObvious]

all kids should go to this

[angieap]

Camp Inquiry is in Holland, NY

[electronifilm]

Awesome! Sounds like a lot of fun. @36 seconds it looks like the Penn-Dixie site. Could anyone confirm/deny this?

[ekoforever]

Yay!!! for thinking!!!!!! Chalk one up for hoping American children can actually raise the education bar. Ok ok maybe at least in the bible belt first. Then we can begin competing nationally.

[popecorkyxxiv]

I cannot wait until the christian Reich learns about these camps, they will be in a rage. Which will be funny to me because it will just emphasise their own ignorance. they have bible camps, Jesus camps, Pray-away-the-Gay camps, and everything in between. They will condemn atheists for teaching children intolerance and immorality, meanwhile the Gay-Pray camps have the highest teen suicide rates on the planet, so exactly who's immoral?

[evolve749]

Too bad these camps weren't around when Hovind was growing up.

[hadr0n]

Looks like great fun! I wish we had places like this when I was a kid!

[CharlieBBoy12345]

If I ever have kids, I will bring them up as philosophers: to love wisdom, to inquire, to reason and to learn critical thinking skills. If they choose to believe in supernatural forces I will let them. If they choose to be atheists, I will challenge them by discussing all the arguments for believing in the supernatural. I will probably avoid letting them read violent and racist texts like the Bible or Koran until they are old enough though.

[rationalCrash]

It sounds like you won't challenge them if they decide to ignore data and just "have faith" (believe in the supernatural).

[CharlieBBoy12345]

How would you go about challenging it?

[rationalCrash]

I would try to teach them to base their opinions on evidence. What is the evidence for your position? is what I'd ask. Then I'd point out problems with their thesis/logic and have them work on it. Most importantly I would try to teach them that "I don't know, there isn't enough evidence" is sometimes an appropriate position. Many people seem scared to take that position.

[CharlieBBoy12345]

I agree with you on the "I don't know" stance. I think that it's important to teach them to have that humility, but with a concurrent curiosity.

As a broadly empirical thinker, I agree that evidence is a key part of the critical thinking we want to instill. The problem with purely evidence-based thinking is that a lot of evidence is faulty, and insisting on only 1st-hand or physical evidence is far too restrictive - leaves us without a sense of knowledge. Empiricism can lead to solipsism.

[rationalCrash]

Agreed, curiosity is quite important. how can empiricism lead to solipsism? More importantly, I have never even heard of anything that is remotely as good as scientific (evidence based) reasoning for determining what the truth is (for anything). Part of it is the realization that as evidence becomes less sure or reliable, so does the conclusion.

[CharlieBBoy12345]

Empiricism-solipcism: 'nihil in intellectu nisi prius in sensu'... since other minds cannot be directly sensed, but only inferred based on behaviours and analogy with the self; some empiricists follow a Berkeleian radical approach and end up denying we can have true knowledge of other minds.

I'm not saying we shouldn't use evidence, but that we must recognise good and bad evidence, and discuss other criteria we impose on theory (e.g. should be parsimonious... [why?], should be progressive...)

[rationalCrash]

there is no other criteria on theory other than does it actually indicate/predict/model reality. which is only validated through test (evidence). Yes we must recognize good and bad evidence, but it is still the only (best I know) way of what is true. (the empiricism/solipsism is BS because it seems to assume a bivalent (true or false) state of proof rather than reality which is anywhere from 0->99.9999....%

[CharlieBBoy12345]

I know what you mean about the solipsism. I would agree but put it in other (Sellarsian) terms: ('warranted assent' rather than proof). Berkeleian epistemology is kind of bivalent (knowledge is justified true belief; the demands are then set too high on justification).

[CharlieBBoy12345]

re: "criteria on theory". Yes, I'm a realist too... sort of. My favourite authors on the philosophy of science are Putnam and Lakatos, though they may seem too postmodern for some tastes. (They would object to being called postmodern - it implies some kind of naive relativism). I would accept your definition, with the proviso that the same 'reality' can be usefully modelled in more than one way.

[rationalCrash]

P.S. Thanks for being able to rationally discuss a subject, not enough of that in many of these threads.

[CharlieBBoy12345]

True, though this is a 'camp inquiry' thread, which you would hope might raise the bar a bit!!!

[ekoforever]

Please give me just one, uno, single, ONE please argument for believing in the supernatural. Please....

[CharlieBBoy12345]

I don't believe in the supernatural, I find none of the arguments convincing. (I reject the whole 'theophilosophical' Platonic concepts of metaphysics too).

However, theists have, at various times, used:

-the design argument

-the ontological argument

-the cosmological argument

-the moral argument

-the argument from experience.

Some of these raise questions that God may be the answer to. Personally I find it an unsatisfying answer, and I would question the validity of asking the questions at all.

[rationalCrash]

Agreed. I've never seen one of those arguments raise questions that a god or gods are the answer to. They always seem to depend upon faith and at best just add complexity. like the argument that god/gods had to create the universe because otherwise where did it come from. (they ignore where god(s) came from). adding complexity without explaining anything is unreasonable. we need to teach people that there are lots of question we don't have answers to yet. IMHO:)

[ekoforever]

Thanks for your response. Questioning these very arguments is what helped me understand the world much better than I would had I joined a religion. God is not the answer however. There is no proof of a said God answer. If there was, we wouldn't have to send kids to camps like these to keep them from growing up and hating blues, blacks, gays, japs, darks, greens, purples, etc. In this way, we can actually think and not be told what to think else we be cast in hellfire............for eternity.

[qanazir]

For some reason I think the kids have more fun there, than they do citing bible verses at Jesus Camp.

[Klarkster]

Nice Video.

[VoteGore]

CFI is such a great institution. I'm so glad it exists.

[burgernfries45]

Excellent! Maybe the next Dawkins or Julia Sweeney will attend!

I guess all the hype regarding life without supernatural beliefs being hopeless, intolerable and inevitably leading to dissolution and suicide isn't true. How could the people of god have lied to us?

[AJOAndre2]

google Camp Quest

[stephenetienne]

Summer camp for atheists! Yea!!

[ajstavely711]

Finally a camp that is healthy for kids! We need more programs for kids based on science and not "sky-daddy" worship!

Has anyone seen the "jesus camp" documentary? Every adult in that doc should be arrested for child abuse!!!

[tehinfidel]

Well, at least the camp itself has shut down.

Except Becky Fischer apparently proclaimed that her "indoctrination will continue". Sigh.

Thanks to the CFI for Camp Inquiry.

[What160]

Camp Inquiry lookes like a cool camp. If i had kids and lived in NYC i would send them there.

[ozzy1248]

makes me want to have kids just so I can send them.

Is 30 too old to attend?

[thetarrkid]

They can always use volunteers!