Christopher Hitchens vs Al Sharpton Part 7 of 9

[MrTonyInchpractice]

if i were ken dodd i would sue you. but i'm not. i'm just another ceraaaazy anabaptist typing with it's feet-stumps. cause that's what we anabapti do, often and alone and facing the north-west, with our beads, almost religiously. come- be an anabaptus! anabaptise before our biennial anabaptiversary and we'll anabapticate on your behalf to any of your dearest enemies. but seriously, meet me at dusk, come alone, wear a red rose, some omelette boots, and a bap tie.

[MMAenthusiastUHHE]

I agree with what Hitches is saying, but do not understand his position on the war. If he hates the enemy, is it because he thinks we're morally correct in exploiting and invading foreign countries and should not expect a retaliation? or does he support the war because of the fact that the US maintains its power through imperialism? not looking for a smart ass remark, just an explanation because it is not very clear to me.

[mtboger41]

@MMAenthusiastUHHE Hitchens has done a lot of work in the middle east and has seen how the theocracies steal the lives of those subjected to them. It's not about imperialism, it's about his moral code that says religion should not operate in such a malicious way to the innocent (the people of the middle east). Therefore, he believes the US should destroy those governments that use religion to oppress people because it is the morally right thing to do.

[MMAenthusiastUHHE]

@mtboger41

Well if that's what they were really doing then I would support his position as well, but I guess I have a different view on the matter. Thanks for the explanation. 

[mtboger41]

@MMAenthusiastUHHE Destroy the theocracy, not the innocent people subjected to them. This is my understanding of his position. I hope it helps.

[loly1969]

listening to al sharpton is a waste of time , theres no wisdom , only wisdom one can collect is coming from christopher

[Stan6468]

To believe in God is the most logical thing one can do, just as if we flew to Mars and found a mountain that had faces carved into it and we said it was there due to millions of years of Solar weather and winds and small asteroids hitting it. All of us would scream that is stupid and illogical and admit it was made by some type of intelligence. But when it comes to more complex and living we throw out our common logic and embrace luncacy.

[Terjesolgard]

@Stan6468 But the same god who made a universe with billions of galaxies who again have billions and billions of stars and planets and made it so extremely complex, cant be the same angry, petty god who cares about what you eat and who you sleep with. THAT is illogical.

[detahdomo]

RICHARD HITCHENS

[stjamal11]

I'm a black guy and I can personally say that Al Sharpton is one of the biggest trouble makers in the whole entire world. He's a charlatan and should be treated as such.

[kelbykross1]

I was in Iraq and Afghanistan. I spent my private time with my friends, and talked about whatever i needed and they were free to say whatever they wanted. There was no need for any of us to talk to the chaplain (even my christian brothers). I am not saying none did talk to him, but I think people just need to talk and be understood. No need for a spiritual answer. A better answer was, "shit happens." Chaos theory would be a better answer than 'god works in mysterious ways.'

[bnzss]

Not wanting to defend Al Sharpton too much, but he's much more reasonable and, dare I say it, realistic, than Hitchens' usual opponents. He's still wrong, obviously, but it could be worse.

[rfranklinw1]

sharpton doesn't even have a grasp of grammer

[1212kpm]

@rfranklinw1 His "grammer" is just fine. Stick to criticizing his positions.

[valadi44]

I wish Christopher would run for President.

[Svoig]

@valadi44 Sadly our silly government doesn't want to be run by anyone who wasn't born here. It's always seemed sort of xenophobic to me. Does anyone really think Hitch is a spy or terrorist? He would be a fine leader.

[Svoig]

I must say, I disagree quite strongly with Hitchens on a couple of things. We shouldn't have been in Iraq, and more importantly, our enemies should NOT be killed. Nobody should be killed. Ever.

[jredbar]

@Svoig could it not be possible that rapists and murders might be forcing an appeal to death? men who torture and rule with tyranny and supreme power should retain this immunity to justice and the people they impoverish under that rule are due this great suffering merely cause killing those men is wrong? what of the innocent in agony? I'm not suggesting there are answers but to state "nobody should be killed. Ever." seems to be absolutist and ignorant. No insult. thats a lofty ideal you hold to.

[Svoig]

@jredbar Ok, good point. I'll revise that. No one should ever be killed without their consent. I'll stand by that, unless there's another case where it comes into question. But none of your other points cause me any distress. I do not condone the atrocious actions of dictators. I think they should be stopped. But they should definitely not be killed. Just as an example, I say Osama should have been brought to justice, not to death.

[jredbar]

@Svoig agree completely that Osama had the right to a just trial (as well I could see a dilemma buried in your previous statement as an eternal question to the affect, can killing rectify an atrocity?) .the issue of taking life should only ever be held to the circumstances surrounding each distinct case. It should be held to scrutiny by a moral consensus. but I would hope members contributing to that discussion did not have preconceptions to good and evil such as, -the good "never" kill-

[Svoig]

@jredbar I'd like to clarify that my point wasn't that the good never kill. I can imagine a good person killing someone who was, for example, trying to kill his infant daughter. I'm saying that it is never good to kill. I can see the value in never making a sweeping statement, but rather judging each case on its own. I have been thinking about this problem. The only case in which I could see killing as moral is if there is no alternative to stopping a completely abhorrent act.

[WolfEyesatNight]

i'm not a christian, but, Hitchens probed morality is unstable with Atheists,

and in his case, not there at all.

[TheLivirus]

Sharpton was wise to take refuge to the abstract deist corner.

[Aceofspades801]

what the fuck is he talking about ?sharpton should know that saying god exists is illogical because there is no logic in believing in a imaginary friend that they play telepathy with , when they need something to make an excuse for something . its the same thing that romans did when floods and storms happened when they blamed it on poseidon . And Hitchens said from the beginning that he nor Al Sharpton cannot prove the existence or nonexistence of god . Honestly Al Sharpton has argued in circles

[bennyboyjones]

Why does Sharpton keep calling Hitchens "Richard"?

[PaladinHero]

@bennyboyjones Yeah that was confusing. I kept getting distracted and thinking that he was referring to someone else...but then I remembered that it's Rev. Sharpton and OF COURSE he got Christopher's name wrong.

[losghost]

Well shit, if Al Sharpton says god exists in his head, then I guess I've got no other options.

[ossified4reason]

I don't like Al Sharpton either, but I must say his performance in this debate has been impressive. Just because I do not agree with him, does not mean he hasn't presented an interesting point in god is not great about it concerning religion and not god.

[newt0830]

when someone sneezes...what does hitchens says?..."nothing bless you"

when he curses someone how does he express damnation...."Nothing Damn it!!"

[PlayThGame]

@newt0830 1. "Bless You"

2. "God damn it."

Just because you say god damn it, doesn't mean you secretly believe in a magic man in the sky.

[losghost]

@newt0830 Do you know why you say "god bless you" when someone sneezes? 

[LadyScorpio39]

religion is the biggest disease in society. it is passed from parent to child, from generation to generation, like an epidemic disease. only instead of catching it, we are deliberaltly injected with it.

[ManifestMiasma]

@LadyScorpio39 You can inoculate yourself if you choose to do so. Then pass that immunity on to your children, share it with your friends, and vote only for those who are themselves inoculated.

[erzan]

If Sharpton says believe one more time I'll hit him.

[writersblock26]

Thank you for posting this, HerrEloff.

[Revolution2pointO]

sharptons support of the penis jokes in the last video was a show that he had to go for the low blow to gain any fanfare. he was demolished and lost my last spec of respect i may have had for him as a decent person.

[writersblock26]

@Revolution2pointO I don't particularly like the Rev. Al Sharpton, either, but I have to admit that he got Christopher Hitchens pretty good with that rejoinder.

[Sabu150]

@writersblock26 Which one?

[shadylonged]

3.20.....you just died and went to the hell you fear of

[lpslostagain]

3:20 no claps. dumb ass ha

[drfoxcourt]

I feel it necessary to back Sharpton on his assessment at 7:10. We don't know everything an there are those who find this so upsetting that they turn to a pseudo-answer.

The Default answer in science is "I don't know" and that, for many is not satisfactory. The default for theists is "God did it" which is not really an answer, but is a pry bar used by religious leadership for wicked purposes. They may not know they are doing wrong. but they are doing wrong in telling others what God thinks.

[tonycatman]

Did Sharpton repeatedly call Chris Hitchens by the name Richard?

[giscone]

@tonycatman I think he was referring to Richard Dawkins who was mentioned just prior to that comment.

[ARobotShinobi]

Rev just said that he was insane. on stage.

[Pemphetru]

sharpton does not realise he is nullifying his own arguments by opening his mouth, does he?

[flightoftheunknown]

Sharpton smokes crack.

[Charlotte333]

Again, this is a conversation, not a debate.

[ffgew22]

Very clever Mr. Sharpton... He's letting Hitchens go first every time so that Hitchens cannot politely butcher Sharpton's response every single time. Pitiful.

[midnightjoker23]

Al Sharpton is an ignoramous. He belongs in a chapel with a bunch of black, fat backward Christians dancing around like lunatics. Who on earth thought he could provide a debate with someone like Christopher Hitchens. Only in the US would such a debacle occur.

[flightoftheunknown]

@midnightjoker23 Agreed.

[ZeusYourUncle]

@midnightjoker23 There are plenty of churches full of white, fat backward Christians who dance around like lunatics. I grew up in one. There was no reason to flavor your comment with race. In addition, while I agree that this debate is rather pointless, it's a step above that time Hitchens appeared on Real Time with Rushdi and Mos Def. That's right: Mos Def.

[milbytrillion]

i love how after sharptons speech about his experience with god being his own subjective experience there is such an embarrassing lack of applause that the moderator immediately goes to the audience for another question. luckily the subsequent question isn't about what gives sharpton the right to preach to anyone after such an admission!

[elsol98]

Anyone who professes to know the secrets of the universe and the mind and will of god is bat shit crazy.

[Hyperborea2012]

@elsol98 Shut your fucking hole.

[Elayis2765]

Sharpton's argument there is exactly the same as any atheists, which he criticized throughout this entire debate. If he doesn't necessarily follow the Bible or any other Christian teaching, but instead only believes in truths that he himself has discovered, then why does he identify as a Christian, and still insist that without it you are immoral?

How can he say that, when he admits that he doesn't get his beliefs from dogma, but from God himself?

[psychopower5]

@Elayis2765 i wish you were in the audience to point that out!

[raphanon]

Sharpton is such a douchebag it hurts

[TouchMyHandHoles]

@raphanon Yeah but it hurts so bad it feels good.

[ThunderheadNebula]

Obama stated that the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the Supreme Court didn’t bring about redistributive change. watch?v=Sj4yIE9Dd90 He told Joe the Plumber in 2008, that he wanted to spread the wealth around. watch?v=PUvwKVvp3-o

Obama is a socialist. He took over the automobile, mortgage, banking, and health care industries via legislation and regulation. Govt is expected to own 70% up from 19% in 2008.

[ThunderheadNebula]

Al Sharpton believes that a vote for Obama was a vote for socialism. watch?v=KCpINI5aVy0 Al Sharpton wants to share the wealth. “Al Sharpton: We Won't Have True Social Justice Until Everything is Equal in Everybody's House” watch?v=95bcEb1rV18

.

Sharpton should start by giving up his $5 million (from celebrity net worth com) It’s also worth noting Hilter was a socialist that seemed to follow the Communist Manifesto.

.

Allen West 2012

[ColdCypher]

@ThunderheadNebula Hitler never appropriated all of the capital that existed within Germany, nor did he attempt to dismantle the relation of the family, nor did the people have any say in what was to become policy. He nationalized certain areas of the economy that were systemic.

[MattSingh1]

@ThunderheadNebula Hitler was actually essentially (extreme right-wing) Roman Catholic.

[M3t4lManiac]

Why is it that religious people think that science and research is done and there is no more to discover? IT IS RETARDED. You have no position in claiming that you know where it all claim from or that we will never find out through science and research.

[M3t4lManiac]

"According to my faith it is not illogical" is what Al was trying to say when he fucked up and admitted that he is incapable of making a single sound argument. "in my opinion" fuck off! You can come back when you can back your insane story up with facts and evidence.

[Vamavid]

I usually agree with Hitchens 100% but I hate it when he turns into a jingoistic cunt.

[echalko]

Oh happy day, another argument from ignorance. We don't know, therefore we give all our praaaaaze to jebus. Sounds convincing enough.

[V45Rider]

@echalko Right on, browda! Give yo fat azz to da lowd, Jezuz! And also to a trible bugga wiz cheezz n jumbow friars! It's always the dumb, slow, fat phucts who believe in god, it's PATHETIC! But don't worry, bro, just rest well knowing there is no reasoning with those blinded by faith... let them all die of McHeart attacks and rot like any other worm! Fuck god for letting all those clergy childmolesters get away with it, protected by that faggot Pope and all his fancy hats :)

[Traumarituel]

Anyone having problems understanding Sharpton I found this to be helpful.

Bleef = belief

Stremphf = Strength

Gawww = god

[GBeesing]

@Traumarituel hahahaha

[Traumarituel]

@GBeesing :)

[shabido1]

@Traumarituel ROFL, you forgot about...

Fate- Faith

Grape- Great

Half- Have

I am being silly of course, but it must be a reverend thing. I used to listen to this radio show where they had a bit called, "What the hell did Jesse Jackson say". Classic! Sukit!

[Alaric1213]

@Traumarituel How cane you when you have no knowledge, one you are against so your mind is shut, and hitchens is your god in whom you believe.

[vibre123]

@Traumarituel ....cut the shit!!!!! Quit bullshitting yourself!!!! You know deep, deep inside you are just a piece of shit racist bastard(your spirit!!)....just don't protest or complain when someone with the same spirit and excuses comes and does something to you!!! ... of course according to the same spirit or negative force that is making you spew this shit out of you mouth......JUST DON'T COMPLAIN....OR GROW SOME BALLS AND ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT AND CHANGE.

[jerryhello100]

Herbert and Donne's devotional poetry sucks. Donne is cool, just not the devotional bullshit.

[Klazzt]

And perhaps the answers are beyond what we have discovered in this age because too many people are looking for God, rather than looking for answers. It's no secret that religious thinking has seriously stunted scientific progress.

[Klazzt]

"The more mankind learns, the more mankind understand that it does not have all the answers. And that's why people continue to reach and seek answers that is beyond what even in this age we have been able to discover."

The study of scientific principals does teach us that we don't have all the answers, but one thing separates scientists from the average religious person. Scientists don't throw their hands in the air was submit to God for answers. They go looking. Now, which side are you on?

[jrwilson98]

I like Hitchens a lot. But, I do not agree with him on the Iraq war. I served in the Army for 24 years. Hictchens talked about Chaplains being unconstitutional, but so is undeclared war and so is nation building. Hitch is an Atheist, but also seems he is a NeoCon and hate then almost as much as religion. NeoCons are just as dangerous as religion is.

[kram83au]

@jrwilson98 i hear you mate, i to like hitchens on atheism, yet the iraq war really sticks in my throat. the neo cons are quite religious which doesnt add up.as we all know its the usa that backed saddam in the 70s, then accuse him of WMDs,which was proved false.pity about guitarhero the airheads comment, sounds like a working class neocon without an education..

[jrwilson98]

@kram83au Not mention the we backed him in the 80's against Iran. There is some proof that the CIA gave him information on how to make the nerve agent he was using against Iran more deadly. It is the same chemical he used to kill the Kurds. I was in the Army when Bush started talking the whole WMDs claim I knew it was lie then. I was also amazed how many of my leveled headed friend bought in to it.

[greyeyed123]

When people talk of a "personal god" in this way, they are just acknowledging that god is in their head--a simple reflection of their own ideas about what a perfect person would be, what that perfect person would want, etc. This kind of philosophical imaginings is clearly how religions start, and why they change over time, and why individual believers have SIGNIFICANTLY different ideas on what god is or wants. This diversity is explained by the fact that every person has their OWN imaginings.

[guitaHer099]

poor little nigger

[jrwilson98]

@guitaHer099 Your statement is rude and not necessary. It proves your ignorance.

[guitaHer099]

@jrwilson98 your statement is butthurt and amusing. it proves your probably a nigger as well.

[A2thedouble]

@guitaHer099 wow your an asshole. get the fuck off this planet for the sake of humanity.

[solexsasha]

Sharpton is a joke. The sad thing is that he probably thought he won this 'debate'.

[mellowman1001]

Yeah.... "Richard"

[Tigerhawk1978]

Sharpton is in so far over his head against Hitchens it's no even funny. He defended absolutely NOTHING! Basically his whole argument that his "own personal relationship" with God could not be disproven.

[IPAndrews]

Next on Fox! Christopher Hitchens debates with Big Smoke from Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

[weirdscience81]

I am puzzled. After hearing Al Sharpton talk it seams quite clear to me that he is a Deist. Not a Theist. Why does he even work as a priest????? 2:55... umm???

[NoWittyNamesLeft]

"I happen to agree with Richard (Christopher?) that Religion has been one of the most misused things in history." Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but did Hitchens not say a video or so ago that he didn't believe that?

[tubiejonny]

I am a hard core anti-theist....and I know I could have done a better job debating on the side of religion than Al sharpten. What an idiot.

[tjohn1986]

@AnonymousxReaper lmao no i never had anyone that bad. but i was told drop it whenever i brought up that i didn't like chaplains closing ceremonies with a prayer

[tjohn1986]

chaplains are the worst form of bureaucracy that exist in the military. ive served 3 tours so know what i am talking about. on top of consuming logistics a chaplain can't defend a sector or fire a single bullet. for that we have to provide an assistant, further waste of manpower. on top of that chaplain are certified combat stress and rape victim counselor, though they have no formal psychiatric training- very unhealthy

and the cherry on the top is in the desert you can only find xtian chaplain

[unfortunatebeam]

2000 years ago Chritianity wAS a kind of enlightenment, it was more humane, compassionate, and concerned about the common person than the far more barbaric and anti-human beliefs that dominated (in the Western tradition) before it. I think more enlightened ideas have now replaced Christianity, but at that time, it was better than what was before.

[unfortunatebeam]

Also, when he says that he believes he wants to kill all his enemies thats more barbaric position to take than Christianitys and its silly of him to say that that is the moral thing to do.

[Paramite84]

@unfortunatebeam

Why the hell would you want to save and actually LOVE those who want to kill you? It's not moral, it's just stupid.

[unfortunatebeam]

"No country that has a budget that could threaten ours" I often agree with Hitchens, but what a rather unenlightened, unevolved, nationalistic bullshit statement to make.

[bentpuzzlepieces]

did sharpton call hitchens "richard" twice?

[beverlybreeze3]

sharpton is an idiot

[oshmunnies]

i completely respect sharpton and his values, but there is no arguing with the logic of hitchens

[1234Daftpunk]

It occurs to me that the spread of religion can be likened to the new age propagation of chain emails. "Pass this on to 20 friends or receive bad luck" is again exemplar of man's tendency to feel the need for the existence of a supernatural. And although these may be harmless communications (that like religion may be associated with financial gain) they may be likened to the onset of mainstream religion. Indeed I consider them essentially as malicious memes as proposed by Richard Dawkins

[Christopher9867]

All you 'atheists' should repent while you still can.

[latuman]

You had no counter-arguments to Hitchens' points and cannot disagree without being dishonest.

You then resort to proselytizing.

[Christopher9867]

Bah, the Lord is coming soon, read the bible, not the God delusion or other such deluded rubbish.

[texandrunk]

Compared to hitchens, the reverent sounds practically illiterate.

[shabido1]

@texandrunk True, and I know it is easy to write a typo, but there is something ironic about your statement. I mean no harm, and realize you may have been drunk.

[TheNinjaBoy7]

One could assume he was the entertainment for the intellects, dining on his stupidity. Hitchens just had the full course.

[c4unitx]

richard dawkins one of the most well known atheist in the world

[jbarks10]

Sharpton is a fool. Anyone who speaks that slowly and carefully and then ends up waffling and saying sweet fuck all, has to be an idiot.

[82kls]

Who's this Richard character?

[tay1228]

Who is Richard? Sharpton knows not who he speaks to. God needs to tell him Its Christopher and not Richard.

[Domzdream]

Yeah, good show that.

[rouzbehazshab]

sharpton...very easily understood.

hitchens...so beguiling!!!!!

interesting.

[Domzdream]

Go-o-o-d-d!

[arshidp]

I can understand why people would love to pray to a superior intelligent creator when there is little hope or in times of immense distress. Its nice to hope that there might be somone out there looking out for us and would help us out of the distressing situation. Though its illogical, I can understand that. What i cant understand is why people would want to worship and praise a creator who has held us hostage at his on will and promises eternal torutre if we were not to follow him?

[TrustYourOwnInstinct]

"From my belief I do not believe that everyone believes..."

Go away, you tired old man. Your ass has just been handed to you. And take the moderator with you.

[normskis69]

Belief in God is not illogical. It is irrational. Deism is a very natural discourse for a human being to follow. This is not a problem.

Religion is the problem.

[Mushuukyou]

Belief in god IS illogical.

Logic, taken to its obvious extension, leads all to atheism.

[III24601III]

On first glance that appear true. However, that claim is incorrect.

Atheism is a belief in no god of whatsoever. There is clearly no evidence that god doesn't exist. We don't have the capacity to know whether a god exists. Hence, both atheism and theism is illogical.

The only answer that is logical, due to humanity's clear lack of knowledge of this universe, is to accept that we cannot know. Logic, taken to its obvious extension, leads all to agnosticism, belief that we cannot know.

[Mushuukyou]

Sorry, but whatever molestation of logic you're using is failing pretty bad. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. Look up the prefix a-. Once you realize this, I expect a retraction.

Agnosticism has to do with knowledge, not belief. Everyone MUST be atheist (without belief) or theist. One or the other. You are just uninformed about the correct definitions.

[theviolator23]

true we cannot prove that God does not exist, and therefore no atheist can believe with 100% certainty that god does not exist and still be logical; however, what we can say is that it appears through demonstrable evidence that things happen naturally and therefore assign a probability to God's existence (which is exceptionally low). A good analogy goes as follows: It is not irrational to believe that I will not get struck by lightning at 7 pm tomorrow, it is however to be 100% certain I won't.

[franksaninocencio]

I am enjoying every bodies comments. Keep up the free thinking, keep moving forward.

[massiveants]

sharpton is well out of his depth here.

[spaceghost1313]

Sharpton is impossible to debate against. He has retreated (as many other people below have commented) behind deism and a private internal god when he is actually a reverend and therefore teaches and reads the bible! As someone else commented, he would not have thought up his belief on his own, the least he could do is attempt to defend his christgod &christianity

[giantjohnfrusciante]

Not only does Sharpton come off as cowardly and ignorant, but he can't even get his opponent's first name right!? What an embarrassment. A foggy fart on the windowpane of reality!

[RPFS2008]

I didn't know Sharpton was a deist?

[canuckman87]

if humans never evolved and developed writing, then god never would have been thought of by the retarded roaming bands of thugs in the middle east thousunds of years ago. Its simple....god is mans creation.

[Brantinger]

Usually debates with Hitchesn are great, like the one with his brother for example, but Sharpton is one big failure here....

[dlindstadt]

Without scripture, the idea of a "god" would have never been conceived by al sharpton, leaving him no excuse to ignore the source of his faith and leave it undefended.

[navid99us]

exactly, he doesnt defend it because he will humiliate himself even more

[cdphatty]

where did you get your ideas about god? scripture duh. sharptons weird.

[wolywoly123]

i think sharpton is too used to preaching to a clap happy congregation blinded by faith.out classed in this debate.

[truckerfromreno]

@wolywoly123 Out classed? When amongst the illiterate he is average, when with Hitchens he is illiterate.

[flightoftheunknown]

@wolywoly123 totally.

[CitizenDrummer]

@wolywoly123 amen

[wackid89]

"I base myself on my life and MY experience with God"

Then your argument falls to shit. Go home.

[FatherofMan25]

yeah its kind of pathetic that sharpton doesn't even attempt to defend the scriptures that he preaches but will only revert back to the same indefensible argument over and over.

[IPAndrews]

@wackid89 Yes. It's an admission of defeat. It's the same as Eric Cartman exclaiming "Screw you guys I'm going home!".