IMO, all of Secretariat's, achievements & accomplishments as a 2 & 3 year old supersedes his (5) losses (minus the race he won but was disqualified) in his short career.
Sec., at 100%, had rematch races with Angle Light, Sham, & Onion & beat them unfortunately, he never had a rematch with Prove-Out.
The BIG picture the ultimate achievement in horse racing in America, is to try and win the TC, which is no easy task for any horse. 3 races, 3 different states within (5) weeks. My point is neither Angle Light, Sham, Onion, or Prove-Out achieved the Ultimate prize winning the TC.
Please read the Paulick Report article titled Ask Ray: Secretariat And the Travers. Read the comments as well from that article. It cannot be denied by anyone how sick this horse was and the track was dead on the rail as quoted by SI Whitney Tower but that is not why he really lost. The real Secretariat kick Onion ass in good order by 12 lengths in the Marlboro Cup with only 4 workouts in 2 wks, He was not carrying the virus then and he ran another World Record without raising a sweat.
great post but you wouldn't happen to have the CBS pre-race commentary for this, would you? I can't prove it, but the CBS fellows made a point of HOW DEAD the rail was that day, and it wasn't the colt that put himself there.
@tizfrreecharm William Nack quote: I walked over from the barn to the paddock with him before the Whitney, and he was tracing diarrhea down his back leg the entire way over. Every hundred yards or so, Eddie (groom Eddie Sweat) had to stop him so Charlie Davis could wipe him down. I asked what was wrong with him, and Eddie said he was ‘nervous.’ But he was incubating a virus for a while. Source: The Paulick Report dated 8/23/2011 from the article titled Ask Ray: Secretariat and the Travers.
@tizfrreecharm Marshall Cassidy:Just to add my slightest trace of anecdotal commentary, I, as a novice radio broadcaster, near the Saratoga Race Course roof and with my trusty taperecorder that 1973 Whitney Stakes day, was vocally dumbfounded by the quantity of loose stool Secretariat released just moments before entering the starting gate. I privately wondered how that could happen at the threshold of his big "prep" for the Travers. "Good Grief! If that were I ...," I thought in empathy.
The American arrogance and ignorance is famose . If a horse wins in USA, without ever leaving his country, it automatically becomes the best in history. Out of your Truman Show , out the Hollywood movies , in the real world, everyone knows ..the best horse ever (gallop) is the Italian " RIBOT ", the best trotter ever is Italian " VARENNE " the best jockey ever is the Italian " FRANKIE DETTORI." All people can check these names on internet and make an assessment of the results.
Interesting. From the evidence here I think that Secretariat belongs in the "very good" but not "great" category. I think that he would have been beaten pointless in a European race like the King George or the Arc.
@tigerboy1966 Yes, and from the evidence elsewhere, there is NOTHING to suggest that, had Secretariat been given an opportunity to TRAIN over the largely irregular European courses, he'd have likely put up a good fight.
Bill nack, author of secretariat book found this out:
*Secretariat had a low-grade fever on the day of the race, but that with all of the hype the Meadow Stable connections felt that they had to run him and that he probably could win anyway*
The same Pressure Jess Jackson was put under a couple of years back to run Curlin on Polycrap track (Jess stated Curlin did not tae to the track), that same pressure was oout on BIG Reds camp to run him.
@tigerboy1966 Can you list something he printed regarding Secretariat that was not true? Even in losing the Wood Memorial Secretariat couldn't get into the bit because of an abscess. That is facts. I am not aware of anything Bill put in writing that couldn't be verified by other sources, but if there is something I would be interested in knowing about it.
Secretariet = greatest OVERRATED horse of all time!he lost more than Seattle slew man of war barbaro big brown cigar personal esigma combined!!!!!!!!!
@ch9980 Your point is? This horse did what it wanted to do, you dont have to win everything or succeed at everything to be the greatest, the greatest always knows what defeat feels like thats what makes you complete. its narrow minded opinion based on numbers by fools such as yourself that make the the world what it is today.
If he was allowed to race as a 4yo I dont know what you haters would have to cry about, most of the records that stand today would be held by this horse, hate all you want.
@TurboGSR96 They didn't run him as a 4yr old because they were afraid they were going to put too much weight on him, I would have loved to see him run against Dr Fager with both carrying 135lbs as the Dr did often. Me thinks that the good Dr would have buried him.
@TurboGSR96 What a wonderful thing if we could have seen him run as 4 y/o. He was just figuring it all out....and mostly on his own. As Penny said "He had taken his career into his own hands." His exercise rider, Charlie Davis, said that he was mad whenever he lost, would go to the back of the stall and not want to be bothered....like he was thinking. Every race that followed a defeat resulted in a track record. Fact. It would have been exciting to see him run the Breeder's Cup Marathon. :)
its funny... people brag "wow secretariat lost he wasnt the bests race horse of all time" even the worlds greatest athlete doesnt win every single time thats insane if a horse won every single time then that horse must be immortal secretariat was 1 in a trillion and thats something to respect if you cant respect him then you cant respect horse raceing plain and simple
Interesting that all the people on this page showering the great "ONION" with praises never mention the Marlboro Cup rematch. See ONION, see ONION get peeled, see ONION get diced, see ONION get eaten alive by SECRETARIAT.
Even Michael Jordan got beat occasionally. Secretariat got beat, but not by much. It just wasn't his day. Nevertheless, greatness certainly didn't escape MJ, and it certainly didn't escape 'Big Red'.
If you look at Secretariat's race record and the final column it says "weakened". That just doesn't happen to a horse who ran a 2:24 mile and a half unless there is something wrong that affects his stamina. The rematch showed what kind of horse Onion was when running against a healthy Secretariat.
@MrItaliano1900 that sounds kind of racist... But anyways, no one said he was the best in the world, besides he was sick this day, and also he was an extremely great horse. One of the best...
Wahahahahaha Secretariat was so over rated ...beaten by Allen Jerkins not once but twice by second rate animals!"The rail was dead...lol..wahahahaha..no Secretariat was dead and still is!Secretriat lost 5 time out of 21 starts...what a piece of horseshit!
Secretariat was ill the day of the Whitney...he had a fever, as I remember, which explains his lackluster performance. It doesn't explain why Laurin didn't scratch him.
The Americans are convinced when a horse has won the United States is the best horse in history. This is really ridiculous! In the real world everyone knows that the best horses ever are italian . Varenne trotting, galloping Ribot. To be the best, you have to travel the world and win big races, beating the strongest horses in the world. Seabiscuit, Man o 'War , Secretariat and other donkeys Americans have never seen Europe. Watch my video of Varenne.
Secretariat put up a game effort but was second best on this day.
Hey, it happens. It's horse racing.
Besides, it's not the first time a champion 3-year-old lost running against the handicap division. Affirmed lost twice, to Seattle Slew and Exceller, after winning the Triple Crown. The following year, Spectacular Bid came up short against Affirmed.
Exactly correct, hence why I said the 1989 Belmont and Derby speak for themselves. Pat Day said it, I think that was pretty obvious he wasn't even the shadow of himself on that Churchill track. Pat Day also said that his ride in the Preakness was "total jockey error" and he got the best horse beat a whisker. I think that Day is correct, and I know that Day is stating the obvious, and so were many racing journalists, including Bill Nack,Crist,Moran and even Californian B.Christine.
I think the 1989 Belmont and Derby speak for themselves. It is in regards to the Preakness and Classic. And like many of the racing experts stated from ALL parts of the country, but stated the most correct by Paul Moran of espn, "Easy Goer was the better and more remarkably and extraordinarily talented horse, but was defeated by a whisker and desperate neck in two races because Pat Day rode him horribly, he rode him like the exposed end of a live wire." So true and correct.
I am not taking anything away from Secretariat, he has to be the best of all-time, no doubts. Easy Goer, though he wasn't Secretariat, he wasn't very far off, from his overwhelming performances at any distances he ran. I just said, if only Easy Goer had a mouth abcess, a low grade fever, and wasn't trained for a specific race in mind. That is all.
i just dont get how all you people say that sec was sick because penny and the "experts" said he was, if any of you have ever been around a horse on daily bases you will know the mood of that horse, when he is feeling good or when he is sick. you mean to tell me that a champion horsemen like lution lauren didnt see that the horse was not himself ? or sec"s groom didnt see that the horse was not himself ? UNTIL AFTER THE RACE ? yea right thats BS.
@bbmtge so what your saying is they openly ran a sick horse knowing that he would not be able to compeat at his hightest leavel ? if your saying that. then that is a strong claim your making. that's like spectacular bid's owner running him in he derby with a pin in his foot and knowing iits there. i dont see that happening
@prowlifik The Bid WAS run in the Belmont knowing that he had stepped on a pin. Understand something about the Meadow Stables situation. They were in dire need of cash prior to delivering Sec into syndication in Nov of 1973. An article in Time magazine in June of '73 QUOTES Ms. Tweedy/Chenery as saying they wanted to race Sec beyond 3YO but could not afford to do so with the passing of her father and the resultant estate taxes due. Both Sec and Riva Ridge were placed in situations (con)
@bbmtge It was my understanding they retired Sec also because handicappers were going to impost the highest weights ever carried by a 4-year old and they didn't want to chance ruining him.
@evyn10014 As the story goes, per most sources, Ms. Chenery sold Secretariat into syndication before he even ran as a 3YO. There were huge estate taxes due on her farm after the death of her father. It is said that Sec would carry 138 as a 4 YO. I thnk he could have carried this weight without a problem as he had carried 130 in training, at times, as a 3YO.
@evyn10014 As the story goes, per most sources, Ms. Chenery sold Secretariat into syndication before he even ran as a 3YO. There were huge estate taxes due on her farm after the death of her father. It is said that Sec would carry 138 as a 4 YO. I thnk he could have carried this weight without a problem as he had carried 130 in training, at times, as a 3YO. Sec was NOT retired becuase of imposts. He was retired due to his syndication.
@evyn10014 Yes, we wouldn't want Secretariat carrying more than weight for age, more than a wimpy 126 would we? Boo hoo. In his last races Sec. was already carrying 5 to 7 pounds LESS than non-Superhorses running against him. Nice advantage when you owners can work it out for you. Man O' War was retired because at 3 he'd carried 131, 135 and 138. and threatened with over 140 as a 4 year old. Dr. Fager carried far more than 126 as have many champion FILLIES. Anyone can win with a wussy schedule.
@pattii55 Yup, speaking of champ Fillies Fager's sister Ta Wee was a tiny thing and she hoisted up 130, 131, 134, 132, 136, 134, 140 and 142 at various times.
With that said I do think Sec could have carried big weights and still won, he just never got the chance...
But it's risky, MOW got injured carrying 138 at the Potomac on a terrible track. I'm glad they retired him rather than have him race as a 4 year old with 145 or 150 lbs. Cheers
@prowlifik ...where they were entered into races they would normally have skipped. The WW is a classic example. Also, most other horses, after a viral infection, would have either not been run or run lightly for the remaonder of the season. Many thought Sec was finished. Why do you think he looked so bad in the Whit and the WW. He still had a coughing virus the day of the MOW. Charles Hatton could not believe the performance he turned in at the MOW after viewing him before the race. (con)
@prowlifik All of this is documented. Lucien Lauren gambled that Sec was so much better than the competition, he could win if he was not 100%. He turned out to be wrong. He should have been more protective of Sec legacy. Example in support; in the 1980 Marlboro Cup, they were going to load 136 pounds on Spectacular Bid. Delp screamed bloody murder as they had screwed up the race between Slew and Affirmed. Delp skipped the MC. Why take the chance of losing or hurting your horse? Good move.
@bbmtge I hear what you are saying and its a shame that penny would send out this amnimal knowing that he had such a condition. he had just put forth one of the greatest moments in sports and this is how he was treated ? shame on her and lucien anything could have happen.
@prowlifik I dont mean to impune them, but they should have been more careful with both horses. Ms. Chenery shipped RR to the west coast for a race that took a year to recover from. She regretted it big time. Those are her words. In any event, they should have been more careful as a big chunk of money was coming later that year.
@bbmtge the lure of money has always been the weak point for horse racing. and that has always hurt the sport. iam a big fan of shiek mohammad i truely belive that he is in it for the sport and not the money, sure he rules dubai and he could find other things to do with his billions but he picked the greatest sport in the world to get into, he may not have the best horse in every race but trust he puts the horses where they can run there best and that is rare now and day.
@bbmtge Your right. They thought he could win on class alone but did not realize he was that sick. He was running poorly 3 days prior to the race in a workout but 2 days before that as you know he ran a 1 mile workout in 1:34 flat in 'MUD'. I have heard a few old time track experts say that workout in mud on a damp day is when he probably caught the virus. A few days later it started to show up in that poor workout he had. He was not clicking on all cylinders like he did in the M.C. race.
Like many racing experts stated from all parts of the country, but stated the most correct by Paul Moran of espn, "Easy Goer was the better and more extraordinarily and remarkably talented horse, but was defeated by an inch and desperate neck because Pat Day rode him horribly, rode him like the exposed end of a live electrical wire." So true and correct
If only the great Easy Goer lost because of a mouth abcess, a virus, and not being trained for a particular race, instead of two horrible rides beating him by an inch and desperate neck. If only he had those three "reasons"
The pre-race commentary stated that the rail was dead that day; so what does Turcotte do? Also, wasn't this Secretariat's first race against older?
As for 'New York's own' Easy Goer, just how many two-turn races did he win over mile tracks anyway? By 1989, racing 'champions' were no longer decided in NY alone - and some of you folks just can't seem to get over that, eh? :)
Easy Goer was always undoubtedly a top ten thoroughbred in talent, ability, speed, stamina, with the glaringly clear proof of that coming from his many top ten thoroughbred performances in his career at all distances, but the two extremely atrocious rides that got him beat a nose and neck in two races sent him down into the thirties where ss always belonged.
To all the haters, Sec was viral and never recovered until after his career was over. All this ill horse did over the final 2 months of his career was to set a WR at 1 1/8 miles and a stakes record in the MOW. He was cruising to a record in the Canadian when he was eased. In less than 6 weeks he ran 4 races. 3 were 11/2 miles or more. As stated, he never recovered from his virus until after his career was over. The horse was made of iron.
it's the "graveyard of champions". aptly named for having some of america's favorite and famous winning horses losing to long shots. rachel alexander, secretariat, man o'war, gallant fox, affirmed etc.
Saratoga, the grave yard of the favorites, does it again. I wonder how many people lost BIG money that day! The greatest horse being beaten by an Onion. You just never know in horse racing!
Not to take anything away from Onion he ran a beast of a race....But it is my opinion
if Secratariat was on the outside.....He blows him away!!!!! It almost seems like Big Red was a bit skidish to clear up rail....Wasn't alot of room and Big Red was a larger horse.....Or he might not of had it that day....But i will always believe that he didn't wanna charge into small gap...
@PlaYah1979 got to totally agree with you, i remeber watching the race on tv when i was a kid and can remeber BIG RED being crowded just a little,onion is still a great race horse as well
@mrr1980 I believe the long stretch at Church will suit her style just fine and I hope she wins and stays perfect.Mike E Smith has an interview on his home page called "Talkin Horses" you should listen to.Everybody that says shes out of her league is sadly mistaken and I hope she makes believers out of em' come BCC time.Zen haters will end up hatin themselves for doggin Her out and calling her overrated while she was making History:)
Love it!!!secratariet sooooooooo overrated!!!!!!first he wasn't even undefeated!!!!take him out top 5 there!!!!!second couple races he finish 3rd or worse!!!!take him out top 10!!!!!third he beat like 5 horses for derby 4 for preakness and Belmont!!!!u have to beat more in one race now days !!!
@ch9980 seiously? only 1 race he was 4th... compare any other horses times and splits, trip crown run, it's been 37 years and all horses come and gone still holds derby and blmnt records and most say preak... his split for 1 and 1/4 mile was 1:59 in the belmont which is 1 and 1/2 mile... it has nothing to do w/undefeated if they win large majority of their races and the way they win... owners won't pay bucks to enter trip crown races with horses like secretariat
@ch9980 Dude, you are a complete ass. you dont know a thing about horseracing. You are nothing but a "fan". go watch hockey and comment with real losers, like yourself.
@ch9980 Hey stupid monkey - Sec's two losses at 2 years old can be ignored. In the 1st he was almost knocked over at the start - any other horse would have been finished that day. At the 2nd he won but got a questionable dq. That leaves 3 losses in '73: Wood Memorial, Whitney and Woodword. In the 1st he had a painful abscess; in the 2nd he had an illness with fever; in the last he ran on slop for the first time against a horse running the race of his life. Look what he did after each loss.
@ch9980 He killed the field at the Derby after 1st loss. He killed a field of champion older horses and a Travers Stakes winner at Marlboro after 2nd loss. He killed a field of older experieced turf horses at MOW after 3rd loss, in his first ever race on grass. To all but a dummy like you, Sec showed what he could do at his best. You are a fool to mention the size of the fields at the TC races. A look at HOW Sec won each race shows that he could have faced any size field and still won.
@ch9980 You see, his opposition kept getting smaller at TC because owners were sh*t scared to put their horses up against him. It seems you dislike Secretariat. That's fine, but don't make half-ass comments because then you come across as a monkey who knows nothing about horse racing - and you don't want that.
@ch9980 At best Secretariat is the best horse of all time. At worst he's in the top 3... I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise... respectfully.
i remember this race well. I was 12 and cried my eyes out when i heard that onion won. I couldn't even talk i was so upset. Secretariat is without a doubt the best racehorse ever and certainly the one that America was, and always will be, in love with. Can't wait til the movie.
Sec definitely didn't look like himself along that rail going into the final stretch...Almost apprehensive is what I would call it. At the point where he nearly always put his competition away in stunning fashion, he seemed to withdraw. But it still doesn't diminish his status as greatest racehorse ever in my book!
Actually, it looked to me like the rail and the fever might not have been the biggest factors. Just my opinion, but it looked like Secretariat was easily going to pass Onion by on the final turn. Onion squeezed in close enough to the rail that Secretariat would have had to shoulder by to beat him. Secretariat could have done that, but unused to running at the rail, the horse might have been afraid of doing that. Looks like he just sat back off Onion's hip rather than try to shoulder past him.
@iltarion You hit it right on the head. Secretariat never ran on the inside (just look at his other races). He got squeezed in on the rail by onion and didn't slap into that 6th gear he had. It didn't have anything to do with a fever which somehow got manufactured after the race as a reason Secretariat lost the race. But maybe it was that track, well know as the graveyard for favorites. Secretariat was the first superhorse to lose there.
@bbmtge Do you really believe that Penny Tweedy (Secretariat's Owner) would have let the horse run, risking potential millions in Stud fees, if she knew the horse was sick? Bullshit my ass. She loved that Big Red and would not have done anything to endanger him.
@5inthehole It is well documented that Sec had a viral infection prior to the Whitney. He never fully recovered and was 80-85% for the rest of the year. That is the nice part. As for your "bullshit, my ass"...get and education in horseracing before you make an ass of yourself you little schoolgirl bitch.
Well, my question is if Secretariat was sick with a fever, what was he doing running in the race? Was there THAT much pressure that Mrs. Chenery felt that she had to run him no matter what the horse's health was? If he were mine, I wouldn't have ran him.
@edgeandmybeaglerule Read Bill Finely artcile dated August 4th 1998 Daily News titled (Spa's Secretariat Shocker Onion Whitney Upset Years Later). It will explain the whole deal. It will tell why Penny still enter him in that race even after knowing he was running a fever. Also tells about Jacinto Vasquez Onion jockey what he said in his interview. It was a 'Fluke he said, etc.ect. Also some comment by Turcotte.
Human error is the only thing that kept Secretariat from being undefeated. We know he had the speed and stamina. Each race he lost there was an element of human error involved whether it was running him when he was sick, unprepared, bumped out of the gate, or struck with a whip (see the story of the Champagne Stakes disqualification). When he was at his best, no horse could beat him.
@MelC54 Human error is a major factor in many of the greats losses, not just Secretariat. The horse was head and shoulders above his competition, but so were numerous other horses in their eras.
Man o War would have been 21 for 21 except for rider error so bad it cost the jockey his license -- which I pointed out to you in another post and you never replied... Funny, I guess the "human error" element only applies to Secretariat.
Possibly some of it occurred because Secretariat failed to "fire" on his own instinct, but the rest simply has to be attributed to Turcotte, who gave the colt the added burden of doing virtually all of his serious running on the rail where the going was doubly deep. End of Quote. His last 1/2 mile workout before the Whitney was only 48 1/5 seconds. About 4 days before that he ran a 45 & change in 'MUD' in a 1/2 mile workout. Was in trouble even before the race.
@joeyinempirestate Your right my friend & it is confirmed by Whttney Tower sportswriter from SI. The track was doubly deep on the rail was his quote. The rail would not even been an issue if he was not running a fever. He was in trouble before the race even began. If he was not sick that doubly deep track still would not have kept him from winning. He worked a mile workout the week before in 'Mud' in 1:34 4/5 & gallop out another furlong in 1:47 & change faster than the race itself.
@prowlifik Hey 'Pal'. Read Steve Haskins article about this race from Bloodhorse if you got the smarts to know who he is. I doubt you do because you don't now the reasons why he lost. Hell man, he ran a 'Workout' in 'Mud' a week before the Whitney way over a second faster than he did in this race 'Galloping Out' another furlong. Its get pretty tiresome when we have to educate people like you 'KID'.
@prowlifik We didn't confirm he ran a fever, the experts told us so. They believe Penny when she told them. Why in the hell would she tell a big lie about it. He was a Super Horse. Did you see it on the covers of Times Magazine or can you read? They didn't put it there because he was something less than that. Your another Secretariat hater without a doubt or just not educated enough.
to keep this simple. secretariat in the belmont on that day would have blew their asses away he probably could have ran a half a mile or more probably looks like he still had a lot left...
@DanielSong39 He was 2nd best here because he was sick. running a fever. A scikness that took him out of the Traver Stakes. Didn't run until the Marlboro Cup & then they said he was a week away from being in top form. Even not in top form he set a World Record & tied the Bid's record "pullin up' in 1:57 4/5. His sickness would have put most horses out for a entire season.
You have to remember, this is a horse who worked a mile for the Whitney in the mud in 1:34 4/5 after splits of :57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, and 1:21 3/5. His mile time was a track record at Saratoga, as was his 1 1/8-mile gallop-out in 1:47 4/5. The gallop-out time was a full second and two-fifths faster than the final time of the Whitney.
Did I EVER say that EG was "as great" as SEC?? NO, I didn't. I said that Easy Goer was always no doubt a Top five or ten horse in ability, talent, speed, stamina, power, but the two atrocious rides that got him beat a nose and neck put him down in the #30's where SS always belonged.
If only Easy Goer had a mouth abcess, a low grade fever or wasn't trained for a particular race, instead of two atrocious atrocious rides, and not handling the muddy track! If only.
Easy Goer was one of the rare ones that had blistering record speed at a mile(breaking Secretariat's record by 1 second), along with a genuine, brilliant stamina to go with it. Ironic that Easy Goer won the Whitney,Woodward and Wood Memorial, while Secretariat lost all three! It's all about timing, and not getting awful rides.
Easy Goer may not have been Secretariat, but he still was one of the greatest of all time. Easy Goer broke Secretariat's Gotham mile record by a full second, ran the second fastest Belmont of all time. Ran 8 or 9 races right with track records.
@flylion132 Much as I like Secretariat that Easy Goer would be a handful for Big Red. No kiddin here. Both horses were very, very strong to say the least. If Big Easy rode the rail like Secretariat did in the Belmont his time would have been at least 2:25 3/5 or better.
@EASYGOERFLIES I did not forget. Maybe Ron turcotte gave Secretariat a bad ride like Pat Day on Easy Goer is the reason for the loss & not the fever.(smile)
@rscarbro100 No doubt. Turcotte did misjudge the slow pace in the Wood Memorial. This Whitney, Jacinto Vasquez on Onion had Secretariat in tight on the rail in tight the whole stretch, SEC only got beat a in a stretch long duel. In the Woodward, SEC still ran a great 2:26 3/5 for the 12F in the loss.
@EASYGOERFLIES I don't think it was Turcotte for the loss in the Whitney, When he called on Big Red for more speed it just wasn't there that day. Penny admitted he was running a fever on & off all the week before the race. This horse was so sick he had to miss the upcoming Traves race. He was ready for the Marlboro Cup but some say he was still a week away from top form. If that was true can you imagine what his fastest time would have been.
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY I didn't say Onion was a champion did I. Onion could have beaten any horse phar Lap ever raced. I doubt Phar Lap himself ever could run a 1 1/8 mile in 1:50.flat.
@rscarbro100 lol who said anything about pharlap??? secretariar ran against bush horses lol no class and still couldnt win ...... pharlap would eat these for breakfast
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY Where is all the barn ponies Bobby that Phar Lap ran against. I am stil waiting for them so called great horses he ran with. Come on Mr. Expert, where are they?? , And you know very well why Onion beat Secretariat that day. Quit playing games & get serious.
@rscarbro100 This reminds me of the 2 times Muhammad Ali and Leon Spinks hooked up in the ring... with Onion of course playing the part of Spinks...Look what happened the second time around. Secretariat destroyed him the second time around. LOL, but then we all know that Spinks was better than Ali, just like Onion was better than Secretariat...LOL. Onion, like Spinks was no better than a third tier perfomer who caught a super athlete on a sub-par . Secretariat won by 12 lenghts in the rematch.
@MelC54 Onion was not even given a chance in the Marlboro Cup. Whitney Tower wrote about it in his article 'They made pigeons of the field. Onion jockey said it was a 'Fluke' and the M.C. proved it. Even Jerkins said they caught him on the other end of a bad day. And the going was doubly deep on the rail as Whitney Tower pointed out besides the fever he had off & on before the Whitney race. What other horse in history ever ran past the 1 1/4 post 'Pullin Up' in 1:57 4/5. Cont.
@MelC54Your are so correct on your analogy my good man between Ali/Spinks & Secretariat/Onion matches. Some have question that 1:57 4/5 time Secretariat did 'Pulling Up' in that Marlboro Cup race. I invite anyone who questions that to read Charles Hatton article for the Daily Racing Manual in 1974 'Profies of Great Horses'. Great reading & maybe some doubters can learn something.
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY Yeah. like Leon Spinks beating Ali....Ali was no champion huh? Interesting that you don't mention the second time they raced against each other. It was a forerunner to Ali-Spinks II.
Big Red was just galloping in the stretch like he didn't care and still was close . No extension in the stride- none of the usual forward power and thrust . Should have stayed in the barn that day - wasn't feeling right That's horse racing
Easy Goer was no doubt at all a Top ten racehorse in talent, ability, speed, stamina, power, but the two atrotious rides that got him beat a nose and neck, put him down where SS always belonged in the thirties.
@DELMARCLUB1 Still on the Easy Goer train You remind of a fanatic Madonna worshipper who says she can sing--- C'mon keep it real -- he was very good/excellent but keep it in perspective -- He wasn't in this horse's league-- You really kow it and the rest of the horse world knows it!! This horse ate up the ground -- At his best Big Red was 10 lengths better than any horse who's ever run!!!!
@DELMARCLUB1 Your right my good man. He was a top ten horse anyway you look at it.. If he completed a 4 year old season we would all have seen a even better Easy Goer. He could run with the best including Secretariat. Now way Ctation nor Count Fleet was better, Dr. Fager no way better than Big Easy at 10 furlongs or more.
Easy Goer ran the fastest three year old mile of all time in 1:32.2, second fastest Belmont Stakes of all time. 8 or 9 races right on track records in the Whitney,Travers,Suburban,Champagne,Belmont, Gotham,etc and gave away alot of weight in that one. Only lost by a nostril and neck vs. SS because of two awful awful rides!
Easy Goer was one of the RARE ones that was blessed with blistering record speed at a mile, along with a brilliant and genuine stamina as well. One of the rare ones indeed.
LOL!! SS must have got booed ferociously!! LOL!! SS got KILLED and DESTROYED by Easy Goer in the Belmont, LOST a G2, a G2 to Prized, lost three times at Hollywood Park, and lost to Criminal Type giving LESS weight than EG, and his own jockey still and will and has always stated that Arazi was better than SS.!LOL
finaly a page where there are no SEC fans bowing down to him. for some reason all the SEC fans are stuck on what he did in the belmont and they dont view his whole body of work. yes he was great but onion handed his ass to him in this race
@prowlifik I am dumb founded that you guys that call yourself horse experts don't know that Secretariat had a fever in this race & was a very sick horse. He ran a mile workout in 'MUD' a week before this race in splits times of 57 25, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & 1:34 2/5. Gallop out another 1/8 mile & his time was 1:47 4/5. Onion ass was nowhere to be found in the Marlboro Cup when Big Red wasn't sick & ran it in record time. 1:45 2/5 still stands today.
RSCarb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
@BladerunnerNYC It don't bother me a bit that Prove Out & Onion beat Secretariat because I know the reason why. Your the one that can't stand Secretariat because you know he was the fastest & greatest horse of all tijme. None could stracth his ass when he was right. And he proved it after the Whitney when he wasn't sick in the M.C. & Onion was nowhere to be found. Why won't you tell the rest of the story Mr. Secretariat hater.
@BladerunnerNYC Beyer didn't say THAT- he said that he'd take Linda's Chief in 1973 at 6 fur, Dr. Fager at 7 fur or a mile and Seattle Slew at 1 1/16th mile. He said that 1 1/8 would be a war between Secretariat/Spectacular Bid and Seattle Slew, and at 1 1/4 would be a battle between Spectacular Bid and Secretariat and at -1 1/2 miles he'd take Secretariat.
Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
The late racing historian Jim Bolus said Seattle Slew's Derby was "a lesson in excuses; the lesson being that great horses don't need them."
Bolus said he would frequently think back to Seattle Slew's performance in the Kentucky Derby whenever he would hear a trainer explaining how circumstances conspired to defeat his horse.
"When I hear that I think, 'that might have defeated your horse, but it wouldn't have beaten Seattle Slew,' " Bolus said.
Secretariat, by almost any reasonable standard, was one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
However, if one looks carefully at the race records, Man O'War's record is second to none; and horses like Citation, Spectacular Bid, Dr. Fager, Seattle Slew, and a few others have very similar records to Secretariat.
Let's just give Secretariat his due and accept that he is one of the all-time legends. Would he beat the other all-time greats? We'll never know - that's just horse racing.
Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
By that I mean, do you judge a horse at his best (ie Secs belmont), or do you factor in strike rates and losses such as this one to Onion? To me if you rate them at their best then Sec is right up there as perhaps #1 ever, but his strike rate wasn't as elite as others that ought to be mentioned in the best ever discussion
what happened here? How could Sec lose to Onion? Also, when you are splitting hairs whilst discussing the best of all time, how much weight can you put on a race such as this?
What kind of crop Alysheba ran against Mr. Bugler? The 4 best I found never had a career record much less than 50%. I know the records of the horses in the Marlboro race that went against Secretariat & their records were much better. I can lay all of them records out here on the table for you to see but since your the expert you should already know them. You must be reading to many fairy tale books with all due respect. (smile)
Don't need a lecture from a so called expert still green behind the ears sonny. I seen the Thunder Gulch race, the Slew 1977 Preakness, & the Marlboro Cup fast pace races. The Marlboro pace was even faster & that 3 yr. old Big Red pass them & kicked those 4 yr. old rear ends in record time. From last to 1st in the Derby & Preakness & set records. Set the fastest pace ever in the Belmont, held it & set new WR. It made no difference with him. He was the total package.
I removed my comments. I decided you cannot debate Secretariat haters & to claim they are experts. That is a far reach trying to undermine the intelligence of many fans that knows different. Its like some kind of expert trying convince someone that apples don't fall from a tree when ripe & that water runs up hill.
I think you have fallen into a trap that most horseplayers fall into at some time or another: FALLING I LOVE WITH A HORSE.
Quickest way to the poor house, kid.
I quit betting in 2000 after watching the video replay of Gary Stevens using a buzzer on Thunder Gulch in the 1995 derby. (You can see the replay of the "battery transaction" here on youtube.
I have forgotten more about horse racing than you will ever learn.
@AllStarBugler This 62 yr. old kid has been around probably a lot longer than you sonny. You probably was in diapers when Secretariat was around. I pulled myself through the Vietnam war jungle & started al life at home while you was still around playing with toy ponies. I seen all his TC races & heard all the experts the things he did that no other horse in history never done. If thats the trap I fallen into then the Charlie Hattons, Pay Lynchs & Eddie Arcaros to mention a few did as well..
@AllStarBugler Course you are done with this discussion. The "FACTS" got the best of ya.. Quit acting like a expert in which everyone here knows your not. Probably need to be taken to the woodshed Sonny. But its alright to pretend your one. Kids play fantasy games all the time. This is a place not to play them.(smile
IMO, all of Secretariat's, achievements & accomplishments as a 2 & 3 year old supersedes his (5) losses (minus the race he won but was disqualified) in his short career.
Sec., at 100%, had rematch races with Angle Light, Sham, & Onion & beat them unfortunately, he never had a rematch with Prove-Out.
Continuation
bbwalk100 4 weeks ago
@bbwalk100
The BIG picture the ultimate achievement in horse racing in America, is to try and win the TC, which is no easy task for any horse. 3 races, 3 different states within (5) weeks. My point is neither Angle Light, Sham, Onion, or Prove-Out achieved the Ultimate prize winning the TC.
bbwalk100 4 weeks ago
When Mill Reef ran badly, he was beaten by Brigadier Gerard. When Secretariat ran badly, he was beaten by Onion. Compare and contrast.
tigerboy1966 1 month ago
Please read the Paulick Report article titled Ask Ray: Secretariat And the Travers. Read the comments as well from that article. It cannot be denied by anyone how sick this horse was and the track was dead on the rail as quoted by SI Whitney Tower but that is not why he really lost. The real Secretariat kick Onion ass in good order by 12 lengths in the Marlboro Cup with only 4 workouts in 2 wks, He was not carrying the virus then and he ran another World Record without raising a sweat.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
great post but you wouldn't happen to have the CBS pre-race commentary for this, would you? I can't prove it, but the CBS fellows made a point of HOW DEAD the rail was that day, and it wasn't the colt that put himself there.
tizfrreecharm 2 months ago
@tizfrreecharm William Nack quote: I walked over from the barn to the paddock with him before the Whitney, and he was tracing diarrhea down his back leg the entire way over. Every hundred yards or so, Eddie (groom Eddie Sweat) had to stop him so Charlie Davis could wipe him down. I asked what was wrong with him, and Eddie said he was ‘nervous.’ But he was incubating a virus for a while. Source: The Paulick Report dated 8/23/2011 from the article titled Ask Ray: Secretariat and the Travers.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
@tizfrreecharm Marshall Cassidy:Just to add my slightest trace of anecdotal commentary, I, as a novice radio broadcaster, near the Saratoga Race Course roof and with my trusty taperecorder that 1973 Whitney Stakes day, was vocally dumbfounded by the quantity of loose stool Secretariat released just moments before entering the starting gate. I privately wondered how that could happen at the threshold of his big "prep" for the Travers. "Good Grief! If that were I ...," I thought in empathy.
rscarbro100 2 months ago
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The American arrogance and ignorance is famose . If a horse wins in USA, without ever leaving his country, it automatically becomes the best in history. Out of your Truman Show , out the Hollywood movies , in the real world, everyone knows ..the best horse ever (gallop) is the Italian " RIBOT ", the best trotter ever is Italian " VARENNE " the best jockey ever is the Italian " FRANKIE DETTORI." All people can check these names on internet and make an assessment of the results.
MrItaliano1900 3 months ago
Interesting. From the evidence here I think that Secretariat belongs in the "very good" but not "great" category. I think that he would have been beaten pointless in a European race like the King George or the Arc.
tigerboy1966 4 months ago
Not great. Really.
European horses never did excel out here anyway, so what is your standard of measure?
funshipM174 3 months ago
@tigerboy1966 Yes, and from the evidence elsewhere, there is NOTHING to suggest that, had Secretariat been given an opportunity to TRAIN over the largely irregular European courses, he'd have likely put up a good fight.
tizfrreecharm 2 months ago
I will say this the ONLY reason Onion, beat Secretariat, because he was not feeling well.
It was discovered after the race that Secretariat, had an abscess in his mouth.
bbwalk100 4 months ago
@bbwalk100 I thought the abcess was in his mouth during the Wood Memorial before the Kentucky Derby. Did he have another one here?
kwgrid 4 months ago
@kwgrid
Bill nack, author of secretariat book found this out:
*Secretariat had a low-grade fever on the day of the race, but that with all of the hype the Meadow Stable connections felt that they had to run him and that he probably could win anyway*
The same Pressure Jess Jackson was put under a couple of years back to run Curlin on Polycrap track (Jess stated Curlin did not tae to the track), that same pressure was oout on BIG Reds camp to run him.
funshipM174 3 months ago 2
@funshipM174 Bill Nack built his career on worshipping Secretariat. His opinions should not be taken seriously.
tigerboy1966 1 month ago
@tigerboy1966 Can you list something he printed regarding Secretariat that was not true? Even in losing the Wood Memorial Secretariat couldn't get into the bit because of an abscess. That is facts. I am not aware of anything Bill put in writing that couldn't be verified by other sources, but if there is something I would be interested in knowing about it.
funshipM174 1 month ago
lol Big Red had no room to run cause Onion's big ass was shoving him against the rail....Big Red is outside horse anyway.
CincyDude 4 months ago
That's why they call Saratoga, the "Graveyard of Favorites". One of many great horses to lose at America's most amazing track.
trimtickets 5 months ago
Best American racehorse ever, it does not matter he got beat, Ali got beat in boxing and still is best ever heavy weight
mikerainham 5 months ago
Overrated! Are you nuts, this is the best thoroughbred of all time. You have no clue about the sport to say that.
thehonzie1 5 months ago
Didn't even mention citiation zenyatta ruffian smarty jones!get off secratariet nuts he good but not worth blowing
ch9980 5 months ago
Secretariet = greatest OVERRATED horse of all time!he lost more than Seattle slew man of war barbaro big brown cigar personal esigma combined!!!!!!!!!
ch9980 5 months ago
@ch9980 Your point is? This horse did what it wanted to do, you dont have to win everything or succeed at everything to be the greatest, the greatest always knows what defeat feels like thats what makes you complete. its narrow minded opinion based on numbers by fools such as yourself that make the the world what it is today.
If he was allowed to race as a 4yo I dont know what you haters would have to cry about, most of the records that stand today would be held by this horse, hate all you want.
TurboGSR96 4 months ago
@TurboGSR96 They didn't run him as a 4yr old because they were afraid they were going to put too much weight on him, I would have loved to see him run against Dr Fager with both carrying 135lbs as the Dr did often. Me thinks that the good Dr would have buried him.
thebeavear1965 4 months ago
@thebeavear1965 he was syndicated to run only up to three years. he had to be retired contractually.
itsabig 2 months ago
@TurboGSR96 What a wonderful thing if we could have seen him run as 4 y/o. He was just figuring it all out....and mostly on his own. As Penny said "He had taken his career into his own hands." His exercise rider, Charlie Davis, said that he was mad whenever he lost, would go to the back of the stall and not want to be bothered....like he was thinking. Every race that followed a defeat resulted in a track record. Fact. It would have been exciting to see him run the Breeder's Cup Marathon. :)
kwgrid 3 months ago
Funny both Man O War and Secretariat got beat at Saratoga
soxbill 6 months ago
my uncles father was the trainer of onion
MrxRandomx 6 months ago
its funny... people brag "wow secretariat lost he wasnt the bests race horse of all time" even the worlds greatest athlete doesnt win every single time thats insane if a horse won every single time then that horse must be immortal secretariat was 1 in a trillion and thats something to respect if you cant respect him then you cant respect horse raceing plain and simple
TheExoticAnimal 7 months ago
Interesting that all the people on this page showering the great "ONION" with praises never mention the Marlboro Cup rematch. See ONION, see ONION get peeled, see ONION get diced, see ONION get eaten alive by SECRETARIAT.
MelC54 8 months ago
Even Michael Jordan got beat occasionally. Secretariat got beat, but not by much. It just wasn't his day. Nevertheless, greatness certainly didn't escape MJ, and it certainly didn't escape 'Big Red'.
leopold1747 8 months ago
If you look at Secretariat's race record and the final column it says "weakened". That just doesn't happen to a horse who ran a 2:24 mile and a half unless there is something wrong that affects his stamina. The rematch showed what kind of horse Onion was when running against a healthy Secretariat.
MelC54 11 months ago
@MrItaliano1900 that sounds kind of racist... But anyways, no one said he was the best in the world, besides he was sick this day, and also he was an extremely great horse. One of the best...
SuperRiceNinja 11 months ago
Wahahahahaha Secretariat was so over rated ...beaten by Allen Jerkins not once but twice by second rate animals!"The rail was dead...lol..wahahahaha..no Secretariat was dead and still is!Secretriat lost 5 time out of 21 starts...what a piece of horseshit!
yourdickis2limp 1 year ago
@yourdickis2limp This gutless piece of crap has been on all the Sec. pages with crap then closed his account.
BigRedTC73 11 months ago
Secretariat was ill the day of the Whitney...he had a fever, as I remember, which explains his lackluster performance. It doesn't explain why Laurin didn't scratch him.
littlescratchykitty 1 year ago
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The Americans are convinced when a horse has won the United States is the best horse in history. This is really ridiculous! In the real world everyone knows that the best horses ever are italian . Varenne trotting, galloping Ribot. To be the best, you have to travel the world and win big races, beating the strongest horses in the world. Seabiscuit, Man o 'War , Secretariat and other donkeys Americans have never seen Europe. Watch my video of Varenne.
MrItaliano1900 1 year ago
i believe the jockey confused him by patting his neck coming into the final bend like he had already won he didnt pick up and go away after that
littlebay75 1 year ago
I believe that the MC was 1 1/8 and he he ran 1:45 2/5 to set the world record Riva Ridge also broke the previous record of 1:46....
SuperDiamond1961 1 year ago
must be neat riding a horse knowing you got an extra few gallons in the tank at any time when you wanna pull it out
db0255 1 year ago
the RAIL sucked that day (called a dead rail) . cost him the race. notice everyone else is OFF the rail. sometimes jockeys are dumb
BetterTasteThanU 1 year ago
It's not like Secretariat was a 1-20 shot; people were giving Onion a legit shot in this race and he delivered.
I'd prefer to give Secretariat credit for giving a game performance in a losing effort.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
I wonder what a C-note to win on Onion payed that day! Anyone out there in You Tube land know??
5inthehole 1 year ago
@5inthehole - Onion went off at $5.60 to one paying $13.20 to win. There was Win Only betting on this race and Onion was the better horse this day.
forkworth 1 year ago
Secretariat put up a game effort but was second best on this day.
Hey, it happens. It's horse racing.
Besides, it's not the first time a champion 3-year-old lost running against the handicap division. Affirmed lost twice, to Seattle Slew and Exceller, after winning the Triple Crown. The following year, Spectacular Bid came up short against Affirmed.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Exactly correct, hence why I said the 1989 Belmont and Derby speak for themselves. Pat Day said it, I think that was pretty obvious he wasn't even the shadow of himself on that Churchill track. Pat Day also said that his ride in the Preakness was "total jockey error" and he got the best horse beat a whisker. I think that Day is correct, and I know that Day is stating the obvious, and so were many racing journalists, including Bill Nack,Crist,Moran and even Californian B.Christine.
flylion132 1 year ago 2
I think the 1989 Belmont and Derby speak for themselves. It is in regards to the Preakness and Classic. And like many of the racing experts stated from ALL parts of the country, but stated the most correct by Paul Moran of espn, "Easy Goer was the better and more remarkably and extraordinarily talented horse, but was defeated by a whisker and desperate neck in two races because Pat Day rode him horribly, he rode him like the exposed end of a live wire." So true and correct.
flylion132 1 year ago 4
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@flylion132 How does the KD speak for itself. Day said EG did not handle the track well.
bbmtge 1 year ago
I am not taking anything away from Secretariat, he has to be the best of all-time, no doubts. Easy Goer, though he wasn't Secretariat, he wasn't very far off, from his overwhelming performances at any distances he ran. I just said, if only Easy Goer had a mouth abcess, a low grade fever, and wasn't trained for a specific race in mind. That is all.
flylion132 1 year ago 2
if the horse was sick then that means he was sick prior to the race aswell and iam sure that penny would not run the horse if he where sick.
prowlifik 1 year ago
i just dont get how all you people say that sec was sick because penny and the "experts" said he was, if any of you have ever been around a horse on daily bases you will know the mood of that horse, when he is feeling good or when he is sick. you mean to tell me that a champion horsemen like lution lauren didnt see that the horse was not himself ? or sec"s groom didnt see that the horse was not himself ? UNTIL AFTER THE RACE ? yea right thats BS.
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik This is where an idiot, like you, has idea what he's talking about. You speculate against what is documented.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge so what your saying is they openly ran a sick horse knowing that he would not be able to compeat at his hightest leavel ? if your saying that. then that is a strong claim your making. that's like spectacular bid's owner running him in he derby with a pin in his foot and knowing iits there. i dont see that happening
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik The Bid WAS run in the Belmont knowing that he had stepped on a pin. Understand something about the Meadow Stables situation. They were in dire need of cash prior to delivering Sec into syndication in Nov of 1973. An article in Time magazine in June of '73 QUOTES Ms. Tweedy/Chenery as saying they wanted to race Sec beyond 3YO but could not afford to do so with the passing of her father and the resultant estate taxes due. Both Sec and Riva Ridge were placed in situations (con)
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge It was my understanding they retired Sec also because handicappers were going to impost the highest weights ever carried by a 4-year old and they didn't want to chance ruining him.
evyn10014 10 months ago
@evyn10014 As the story goes, per most sources, Ms. Chenery sold Secretariat into syndication before he even ran as a 3YO. There were huge estate taxes due on her farm after the death of her father. It is said that Sec would carry 138 as a 4 YO. I thnk he could have carried this weight without a problem as he had carried 130 in training, at times, as a 3YO.
bbmtge 10 months ago
@evyn10014 As the story goes, per most sources, Ms. Chenery sold Secretariat into syndication before he even ran as a 3YO. There were huge estate taxes due on her farm after the death of her father. It is said that Sec would carry 138 as a 4 YO. I thnk he could have carried this weight without a problem as he had carried 130 in training, at times, as a 3YO. Sec was NOT retired becuase of imposts. He was retired due to his syndication.
bbmtge 10 months ago
@evyn10014 Yes, we wouldn't want Secretariat carrying more than weight for age, more than a wimpy 126 would we? Boo hoo. In his last races Sec. was already carrying 5 to 7 pounds LESS than non-Superhorses running against him. Nice advantage when you owners can work it out for you. Man O' War was retired because at 3 he'd carried 131, 135 and 138. and threatened with over 140 as a 4 year old. Dr. Fager carried far more than 126 as have many champion FILLIES. Anyone can win with a wussy schedule.
pattii55 7 months ago
@pattii55 Yup, speaking of champ Fillies Fager's sister Ta Wee was a tiny thing and she hoisted up 130, 131, 134, 132, 136, 134, 140 and 142 at various times.
With that said I do think Sec could have carried big weights and still won, he just never got the chance...
But it's risky, MOW got injured carrying 138 at the Potomac on a terrible track. I'm glad they retired him rather than have him race as a 4 year old with 145 or 150 lbs. Cheers
evyn10014 7 months ago
@prowlifik ...where they were entered into races they would normally have skipped. The WW is a classic example. Also, most other horses, after a viral infection, would have either not been run or run lightly for the remaonder of the season. Many thought Sec was finished. Why do you think he looked so bad in the Whit and the WW. He still had a coughing virus the day of the MOW. Charles Hatton could not believe the performance he turned in at the MOW after viewing him before the race. (con)
bbmtge 1 year ago
@prowlifik All of this is documented. Lucien Lauren gambled that Sec was so much better than the competition, he could win if he was not 100%. He turned out to be wrong. He should have been more protective of Sec legacy. Example in support; in the 1980 Marlboro Cup, they were going to load 136 pounds on Spectacular Bid. Delp screamed bloody murder as they had screwed up the race between Slew and Affirmed. Delp skipped the MC. Why take the chance of losing or hurting your horse? Good move.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge I hear what you are saying and its a shame that penny would send out this amnimal knowing that he had such a condition. he had just put forth one of the greatest moments in sports and this is how he was treated ? shame on her and lucien anything could have happen.
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik I dont mean to impune them, but they should have been more careful with both horses. Ms. Chenery shipped RR to the west coast for a race that took a year to recover from. She regretted it big time. Those are her words. In any event, they should have been more careful as a big chunk of money was coming later that year.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge the lure of money has always been the weak point for horse racing. and that has always hurt the sport. iam a big fan of shiek mohammad i truely belive that he is in it for the sport and not the money, sure he rules dubai and he could find other things to do with his billions but he picked the greatest sport in the world to get into, he may not have the best horse in every race but trust he puts the horses where they can run there best and that is rare now and day.
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik Another story of a horse who was vrun injured is Majestic Prince. They ruined his career running him in the Belmont.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge Your right. They thought he could win on class alone but did not realize he was that sick. He was running poorly 3 days prior to the race in a workout but 2 days before that as you know he ran a 1 mile workout in 1:34 flat in 'MUD'. I have heard a few old time track experts say that workout in mud on a damp day is when he probably caught the virus. A few days later it started to show up in that poor workout he had. He was not clicking on all cylinders like he did in the M.C. race.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Like many racing experts stated from all parts of the country, but stated the most correct by Paul Moran of espn, "Easy Goer was the better and more extraordinarily and remarkably talented horse, but was defeated by an inch and desperate neck because Pat Day rode him horribly, rode him like the exposed end of a live electrical wire." So true and correct
flylion132 1 year ago 4
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@flylion132 Keep crying...what's your excuse for the KD. And dont denegrate Secretariat in trying to make EasyGoer look good.
bbmtge 1 year ago
If only the great Easy Goer lost because of a mouth abcess, a virus, and not being trained for a particular race, instead of two horrible rides beating him by an inch and desperate neck. If only he had those three "reasons"
flylion132 1 year ago 4
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@flylion132 The EasyGoer fans are worse than the Seatle Slew fans.
bbmtge 1 year ago
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The pre-race commentary stated that the rail was dead that day; so what does Turcotte do? Also, wasn't this Secretariat's first race against older?
As for 'New York's own' Easy Goer, just how many two-turn races did he win over mile tracks anyway? By 1989, racing 'champions' were no longer decided in NY alone - and some of you folks just can't seem to get over that, eh? :)
tizfrreecharm 1 year ago
Easy Goer was always undoubtedly a top ten thoroughbred in talent, ability, speed, stamina, with the glaringly clear proof of that coming from his many top ten thoroughbred performances in his career at all distances, but the two extremely atrocious rides that got him beat a nose and neck in two races sent him down into the thirties where ss always belonged.
DELMARCLUB1 1 year ago 6
To all the haters, Sec was viral and never recovered until after his career was over. All this ill horse did over the final 2 months of his career was to set a WR at 1 1/8 miles and a stakes record in the MOW. He was cruising to a record in the Canadian when he was eased. In less than 6 weeks he ran 4 races. 3 were 11/2 miles or more. As stated, he never recovered from his virus until after his career was over. The horse was made of iron.
bbmtge 1 year ago
easy goer easy top ten horse
3232rams 1 year ago 9
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@3232rams more like 34, Sunday Silence 31.
Peachycanyon 1 year ago
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@3232rams Too bad about that whole Sunday Silence thing huh? Only if he woulda had a little more tactical speed.
sexymonimone 11 months ago
it's the "graveyard of champions". aptly named for having some of america's favorite and famous winning horses losing to long shots. rachel alexander, secretariat, man o'war, gallant fox, affirmed etc.
togaroc345 1 year ago
Saratoga, the grave yard of the favorites, does it again. I wonder how many people lost BIG money that day! The greatest horse being beaten by an Onion. You just never know in horse racing!
5inthehole 1 year ago
Not to take anything away from Onion he ran a beast of a race....But it is my opinion
if Secratariat was on the outside.....He blows him away!!!!! It almost seems like Big Red was a bit skidish to clear up rail....Wasn't alot of room and Big Red was a larger horse.....Or he might not of had it that day....But i will always believe that he didn't wanna charge into small gap...
PlaYah1979 1 year ago
@PlaYah1979 got to totally agree with you, i remeber watching the race on tv when i was a kid and can remeber BIG RED being crowded just a little,onion is still a great race horse as well
allenwlindsay 1 year ago
Zenyatta would trounce this field.
mrr1980 1 year ago
@mrr1980 Don't think so. She's a great racehorse but not in this league.
sufenta67 1 year ago
@mrr1980 I believe the long stretch at Church will suit her style just fine and I hope she wins and stays perfect.Mike E Smith has an interview on his home page called "Talkin Horses" you should listen to.Everybody that says shes out of her league is sadly mistaken and I hope she makes believers out of em' come BCC time.Zen haters will end up hatin themselves for doggin Her out and calling her overrated while she was making History:)
205seeme 1 year ago
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DanielSong39 1 year ago
@mrr1980 what happened to you stupid zenyatta hahahaaha
bucball37 1 year ago
Love it!!!secratariet sooooooooo overrated!!!!!!first he wasn't even undefeated!!!!take him out top 5 there!!!!!second couple races he finish 3rd or worse!!!!take him out top 10!!!!!third he beat like 5 horses for derby 4 for preakness and Belmont!!!!u have to beat more in one race now days !!!
ch9980 1 year ago
@ch9980 seiously? only 1 race he was 4th... compare any other horses times and splits, trip crown run, it's been 37 years and all horses come and gone still holds derby and blmnt records and most say preak... his split for 1 and 1/4 mile was 1:59 in the belmont which is 1 and 1/2 mile... it has nothing to do w/undefeated if they win large majority of their races and the way they win... owners won't pay bucks to enter trip crown races with horses like secretariat
thunder2688 1 year ago
@ch9980 Dude, you are a complete ass. you dont know a thing about horseracing. You are nothing but a "fan". go watch hockey and comment with real losers, like yourself.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@ch9980 Hey stupid monkey - Sec's two losses at 2 years old can be ignored. In the 1st he was almost knocked over at the start - any other horse would have been finished that day. At the 2nd he won but got a questionable dq. That leaves 3 losses in '73: Wood Memorial, Whitney and Woodword. In the 1st he had a painful abscess; in the 2nd he had an illness with fever; in the last he ran on slop for the first time against a horse running the race of his life. Look what he did after each loss.
rcschumann 9 months ago
@ch9980 He killed the field at the Derby after 1st loss. He killed a field of champion older horses and a Travers Stakes winner at Marlboro after 2nd loss. He killed a field of older experieced turf horses at MOW after 3rd loss, in his first ever race on grass. To all but a dummy like you, Sec showed what he could do at his best. You are a fool to mention the size of the fields at the TC races. A look at HOW Sec won each race shows that he could have faced any size field and still won.
rcschumann 9 months ago
@ch9980 You see, his opposition kept getting smaller at TC because owners were sh*t scared to put their horses up against him. It seems you dislike Secretariat. That's fine, but don't make half-ass comments because then you come across as a monkey who knows nothing about horse racing - and you don't want that.
rcschumann 9 months ago
@ch9980 At best Secretariat is the best horse of all time. At worst he's in the top 3... I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise... respectfully.
evyn10014 7 months ago
i remember this race well. I was 12 and cried my eyes out when i heard that onion won. I couldn't even talk i was so upset. Secretariat is without a doubt the best racehorse ever and certainly the one that America was, and always will be, in love with. Can't wait til the movie.
myalias23 1 year ago
Sec definitely didn't look like himself along that rail going into the final stretch...Almost apprehensive is what I would call it. At the point where he nearly always put his competition away in stunning fashion, he seemed to withdraw. But it still doesn't diminish his status as greatest racehorse ever in my book!
RAV52 1 year ago
Actually, it looked to me like the rail and the fever might not have been the biggest factors. Just my opinion, but it looked like Secretariat was easily going to pass Onion by on the final turn. Onion squeezed in close enough to the rail that Secretariat would have had to shoulder by to beat him. Secretariat could have done that, but unused to running at the rail, the horse might have been afraid of doing that. Looks like he just sat back off Onion's hip rather than try to shoulder past him.
iltarion 1 year ago
@iltarion You hit it right on the head. Secretariat never ran on the inside (just look at his other races). He got squeezed in on the rail by onion and didn't slap into that 6th gear he had. It didn't have anything to do with a fever which somehow got manufactured after the race as a reason Secretariat lost the race. But maybe it was that track, well know as the graveyard for favorites. Secretariat was the first superhorse to lose there.
5inthehole 1 year ago
@5inthehole Dead wrong. The horse was viral and was sick for the remainder of his career. Your comment is complete bullshit.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge Do you really believe that Penny Tweedy (Secretariat's Owner) would have let the horse run, risking potential millions in Stud fees, if she knew the horse was sick? Bullshit my ass. She loved that Big Red and would not have done anything to endanger him.
5inthehole 1 year ago
@5inthehole your right, thats how you know the horse just was beaten by better horses
prowlifik 1 year ago
@5inthehole It is well documented that Sec had a viral infection prior to the Whitney. He never fully recovered and was 80-85% for the rest of the year. That is the nice part. As for your "bullshit, my ass"...get and education in horseracing before you make an ass of yourself you little schoolgirl bitch.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Well, my question is if Secretariat was sick with a fever, what was he doing running in the race? Was there THAT much pressure that Mrs. Chenery felt that she had to run him no matter what the horse's health was? If he were mine, I wouldn't have ran him.
edgeandmybeaglerule 1 year ago
@edgeandmybeaglerule Read Bill Finely artcile dated August 4th 1998 Daily News titled (Spa's Secretariat Shocker Onion Whitney Upset Years Later). It will explain the whole deal. It will tell why Penny still enter him in that race even after knowing he was running a fever. Also tells about Jacinto Vasquez Onion jockey what he said in his interview. It was a 'Fluke he said, etc.ect. Also some comment by Turcotte.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Human error is the only thing that kept Secretariat from being undefeated. We know he had the speed and stamina. Each race he lost there was an element of human error involved whether it was running him when he was sick, unprepared, bumped out of the gate, or struck with a whip (see the story of the Champagne Stakes disqualification). When he was at his best, no horse could beat him.
MelC54 1 year ago
@MelC54 Human error is a major factor in many of the greats losses, not just Secretariat. The horse was head and shoulders above his competition, but so were numerous other horses in their eras.
Man o War would have been 21 for 21 except for rider error so bad it cost the jockey his license -- which I pointed out to you in another post and you never replied... Funny, I guess the "human error" element only applies to Secretariat.
evyn10014 7 months ago
I have a question....why are there a lot of comments about Sunday Silence and Easy Goer when this a video about Onion upsetting Secretariat?
BackstretchUnderdog 1 year ago
Whitney Tower Quote:
Possibly some of it occurred because Secretariat failed to "fire" on his own instinct, but the rest simply has to be attributed to Turcotte, who gave the colt the added burden of doing virtually all of his serious running on the rail where the going was doubly deep. End of Quote. His last 1/2 mile workout before the Whitney was only 48 1/5 seconds. About 4 days before that he ran a 45 & change in 'MUD' in a 1/2 mile workout. Was in trouble even before the race.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I was there the rail was like quicksand
joeyinempirestate 1 year ago
@joeyinempirestate Your right my friend & it is confirmed by Whttney Tower sportswriter from SI. The track was doubly deep on the rail was his quote. The rail would not even been an issue if he was not running a fever. He was in trouble before the race even began. If he was not sick that doubly deep track still would not have kept him from winning. He worked a mile workout the week before in 'Mud' in 1:34 4/5 & gallop out another furlong in 1:47 & change faster than the race itself.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Great observation, thanks for your perspective...
joeyinempirestate 1 year ago
you sec fans love making excuses, if he wins yall say he's a superhorse if he loses yall say he ran a fever. you cant have it both ways.
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik A very childish comment. Try to deal with specifics and details. Generalizations are for those who are incapable of serious debate.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@prowlifik Hey 'Pal'. Read Steve Haskins article about this race from Bloodhorse if you got the smarts to know who he is. I doubt you do because you don't now the reasons why he lost. Hell man, he ran a 'Workout' in 'Mud' a week before the Whitney way over a second faster than he did in this race 'Galloping Out' another furlong. Its get pretty tiresome when we have to educate people like you 'KID'.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@prowlifik We didn't confirm he ran a fever, the experts told us so. They believe Penny when she told them. Why in the hell would she tell a big lie about it. He was a Super Horse. Did you see it on the covers of Times Magazine or can you read? They didn't put it there because he was something less than that. Your another Secretariat hater without a doubt or just not educated enough.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
to keep this simple. secretariat in the belmont on that day would have blew their asses away he probably could have ran a half a mile or more probably looks like he still had a lot left...
1868 1 year ago
Secretariat ran well but was second best.
Hey, it happens. It's horse racing.
He would get his revenge in the Marlboro Cup and make all the doubters look silly.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 He was 2nd best here because he was sick. running a fever. A scikness that took him out of the Traver Stakes. Didn't run until the Marlboro Cup & then they said he was a week away from being in top form. Even not in top form he set a World Record & tied the Bid's record "pullin up' in 1:57 4/5. His sickness would have put most horses out for a entire season.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Quote by Steve Hakins:
You have to remember, this is a horse who worked a mile for the Whitney in the mud in 1:34 4/5 after splits of :57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, and 1:21 3/5. His mile time was a track record at Saratoga, as was his 1 1/8-mile gallop-out in 1:47 4/5. The gallop-out time was a full second and two-fifths faster than the final time of the Whitney.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Did I EVER say that EG was "as great" as SEC?? NO, I didn't. I said that Easy Goer was always no doubt a Top five or ten horse in ability, talent, speed, stamina, power, but the two atrocious rides that got him beat a nose and neck put him down in the #30's where SS always belonged.
DELMARCLUB1 1 year ago 2
If only Easy Goer had a mouth abcess, a low grade fever or wasn't trained for a particular race, instead of two atrocious atrocious rides, and not handling the muddy track! If only.
DELMARCLUB1 1 year ago
Easy Goer was one of the rare ones that had blistering record speed at a mile(breaking Secretariat's record by 1 second), along with a genuine, brilliant stamina to go with it. Ironic that Easy Goer won the Whitney,Woodward and Wood Memorial, while Secretariat lost all three! It's all about timing, and not getting awful rides.
EASYGOER4LIFE 1 year ago
Easy Goer may not have been Secretariat, but he still was one of the greatest of all time. Easy Goer broke Secretariat's Gotham mile record by a full second, ran the second fastest Belmont of all time. Ran 8 or 9 races right with track records.
flylion132 1 year ago
@flylion132 Much as I like Secretariat that Easy Goer would be a handful for Big Red. No kiddin here. Both horses were very, very strong to say the least. If Big Easy rode the rail like Secretariat did in the Belmont his time would have been at least 2:25 3/5 or better.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
People forget that Secretariat got beat THREE times as a three year old, by over 4 lengths twice, and by a length here with a plethora of excuses.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES I did not forget. Maybe Ron turcotte gave Secretariat a bad ride like Pat Day on Easy Goer is the reason for the loss & not the fever.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 No doubt. Turcotte did misjudge the slow pace in the Wood Memorial. This Whitney, Jacinto Vasquez on Onion had Secretariat in tight on the rail in tight the whole stretch, SEC only got beat a in a stretch long duel. In the Woodward, SEC still ran a great 2:26 3/5 for the 12F in the loss.
EASYGOERFLIES 1 year ago
@EASYGOERFLIES I don't think it was Turcotte for the loss in the Whitney, When he called on Big Red for more speed it just wasn't there that day. Penny admitted he was running a fever on & off all the week before the race. This horse was so sick he had to miss the upcoming Traves race. He was ready for the Marlboro Cup but some say he was still a week away from top form. If that was true can you imagine what his fastest time would have been.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 beaten by a unknown what sort of champion is this ?? he isnt a champion is your answer ...
LIGHTNINGB0BBY 1 year ago
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY I didn't say Onion was a champion did I. Onion could have beaten any horse phar Lap ever raced. I doubt Phar Lap himself ever could run a 1 1/8 mile in 1:50.flat.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 lol who said anything about pharlap??? secretariar ran against bush horses lol no class and still couldnt win ...... pharlap would eat these for breakfast
LIGHTNINGB0BBY 1 year ago
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY Where is all the barn ponies Bobby that Phar Lap ran against. I am stil waiting for them so called great horses he ran with. Come on Mr. Expert, where are they?? , And you know very well why Onion beat Secretariat that day. Quit playing games & get serious.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 This reminds me of the 2 times Muhammad Ali and Leon Spinks hooked up in the ring... with Onion of course playing the part of Spinks...Look what happened the second time around. Secretariat destroyed him the second time around. LOL, but then we all know that Spinks was better than Ali, just like Onion was better than Secretariat...LOL. Onion, like Spinks was no better than a third tier perfomer who caught a super athlete on a sub-par . Secretariat won by 12 lenghts in the rematch.
MelC54 1 year ago
@MelC54 Onion was not even given a chance in the Marlboro Cup. Whitney Tower wrote about it in his article 'They made pigeons of the field. Onion jockey said it was a 'Fluke' and the M.C. proved it. Even Jerkins said they caught him on the other end of a bad day. And the going was doubly deep on the rail as Whitney Tower pointed out besides the fever he had off & on before the Whitney race. What other horse in history ever ran past the 1 1/4 post 'Pullin Up' in 1:57 4/5. Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@MelC54Your are so correct on your analogy my good man between Ali/Spinks & Secretariat/Onion matches. Some have question that 1:57 4/5 time Secretariat did 'Pulling Up' in that Marlboro Cup race. I invite anyone who questions that to read Charles Hatton article for the Daily Racing Manual in 1974 'Profies of Great Horses'. Great reading & maybe some doubters can learn something.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@MelC54 No one thinks Onion was a better horse than Secretariat. If they do they're mentally handicapped.
evyn10014 7 months ago
@LIGHTNINGB0BBY Yeah. like Leon Spinks beating Ali....Ali was no champion huh? Interesting that you don't mention the second time they raced against each other. It was a forerunner to Ali-Spinks II.
MelC54 1 year ago
I guess Secretariat had an aversion to races beginning with a W
lpvcrcd 1 year ago
@lpvcrcd I wonder if he could read?
jess4metoo 1 year ago
Big Red was just galloping in the stretch like he didn't care and still was close . No extension in the stride- none of the usual forward power and thrust . Should have stayed in the barn that day - wasn't feeling right That's horse racing
lpvcrcd 1 year ago
Easy Goer was no doubt at all a Top ten racehorse in talent, ability, speed, stamina, power, but the two atrotious rides that got him beat a nose and neck, put him down where SS always belonged in the thirties.
DELMARCLUB1 1 year ago 11
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@DELMARCLUB1 Still on the Easy Goer train You remind of a fanatic Madonna worshipper who says she can sing--- C'mon keep it real -- he was very good/excellent but keep it in perspective -- He wasn't in this horse's league-- You really kow it and the rest of the horse world knows it!! This horse ate up the ground -- At his best Big Red was 10 lengths better than any horse who's ever run!!!!
lpvcrcd 1 year ago
@DELMARCLUB1 Your right my good man. He was a top ten horse anyway you look at it.. If he completed a 4 year old season we would all have seen a even better Easy Goer. He could run with the best including Secretariat. Now way Ctation nor Count Fleet was better, Dr. Fager no way better than Big Easy at 10 furlongs or more.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Easy Goer ran the fastest three year old mile of all time in 1:32.2, second fastest Belmont Stakes of all time. 8 or 9 races right on track records in the Whitney,Travers,Suburban,Champagne,Belmont, Gotham,etc and gave away alot of weight in that one. Only lost by a nostril and neck vs. SS because of two awful awful rides!
EASYGOER4LIFE 1 year ago 5
Easy Goer was one of the RARE ones that was blessed with blistering record speed at a mile, along with a brilliant and genuine stamina as well. One of the rare ones indeed.
EASYGOER4LIFE 1 year ago
LOL!! SS must have got booed ferociously!! LOL!! SS got KILLED and DESTROYED by Easy Goer in the Belmont, LOST a G2, a G2 to Prized, lost three times at Hollywood Park, and lost to Criminal Type giving LESS weight than EG, and his own jockey still and will and has always stated that Arazi was better than SS.!LOL
flyrobertfly45 1 year ago 2
finaly a page where there are no SEC fans bowing down to him. for some reason all the SEC fans are stuck on what he did in the belmont and they dont view his whole body of work. yes he was great but onion handed his ass to him in this race
prowlifik 1 year ago
@prowlifik I am dumb founded that you guys that call yourself horse experts don't know that Secretariat had a fever in this race & was a very sick horse. He ran a mile workout in 'MUD' a week before this race in splits times of 57 25, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & 1:34 2/5. Gallop out another 1/8 mile & his time was 1:47 4/5. Onion ass was nowhere to be found in the Marlboro Cup when Big Red wasn't sick & ran it in record time. 1:45 2/5 still stands today.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
RSCarb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
BladerunnerNYC 1 year ago
@BladerunnerNYC It don't bother me a bit that Prove Out & Onion beat Secretariat because I know the reason why. Your the one that can't stand Secretariat because you know he was the fastest & greatest horse of all tijme. None could stracth his ass when he was right. And he proved it after the Whitney when he wasn't sick in the M.C. & Onion was nowhere to be found. Why won't you tell the rest of the story Mr. Secretariat hater.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@BladerunnerNYC Beyer didn't say THAT- he said that he'd take Linda's Chief in 1973 at 6 fur, Dr. Fager at 7 fur or a mile and Seattle Slew at 1 1/16th mile. He said that 1 1/8 would be a war between Secretariat/Spectacular Bid and Seattle Slew, and at 1 1/4 would be a battle between Spectacular Bid and Secretariat and at -1 1/2 miles he'd take Secretariat.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward Interesting. Where did you read that? I'd like to read the article/book... Thanks
evyn10014 7 months ago
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Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
BladerunnerNYC 1 year ago
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Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
BladerunnerNYC 1 year ago
The late racing historian Jim Bolus said Seattle Slew's Derby was "a lesson in excuses; the lesson being that great horses don't need them."
Bolus said he would frequently think back to Seattle Slew's performance in the Kentucky Derby whenever he would hear a trainer explaining how circumstances conspired to defeat his horse.
"When I hear that I think, 'that might have defeated your horse, but it wouldn't have beaten Seattle Slew,' " Bolus said.
BladerunnerNYC 1 year ago
Secretariat, by almost any reasonable standard, was one of the greatest racehorses of all time.
However, if one looks carefully at the race records, Man O'War's record is second to none; and horses like Citation, Spectacular Bid, Dr. Fager, Seattle Slew, and a few others have very similar records to Secretariat.
Let's just give Secretariat his due and accept that he is one of the all-time legends. Would he beat the other all-time greats? We'll never know - that's just horse racing.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Carb can't stand the fact the Jerkins served up Secretariat twice- and the Prove Out race saw Secretariat crushed by a horse that was RUNNING HIS 5th RACE in 5 weeks!!!!!!!!!
Secretariat was a great horse, but the great one himself Andy Beyer said in the Washington Post; 'Anything from 6 fur to 1 1/4 miles I would take Seattle Slew over Secretariat in a match race....on turf or over 1 1/4 miles- I would take Secretariat. ' The point is- it would have been close with many different opinions
BladerunnerNYC 1 year ago
By that I mean, do you judge a horse at his best (ie Secs belmont), or do you factor in strike rates and losses such as this one to Onion? To me if you rate them at their best then Sec is right up there as perhaps #1 ever, but his strike rate wasn't as elite as others that ought to be mentioned in the best ever discussion
schardy80 1 year ago
what happened here? How could Sec lose to Onion? Also, when you are splitting hairs whilst discussing the best of all time, how much weight can you put on a race such as this?
schardy80 1 year ago
This race reminds me of yesterday's New Orleans Ladies. After the shock wears off, there is only a vague feeling of disappointment. Sigh.
SmartyJones93 1 year ago
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What kind of crop Alysheba ran against Mr. Bugler? The 4 best I found never had a career record much less than 50%. I know the records of the horses in the Marlboro race that went against Secretariat & their records were much better. I can lay all of them records out here on the table for you to see but since your the expert you should already know them. You must be reading to many fairy tale books with all due respect. (smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
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rscarbro100 1 year ago
Don't need a lecture from a so called expert still green behind the ears sonny. I seen the Thunder Gulch race, the Slew 1977 Preakness, & the Marlboro Cup fast pace races. The Marlboro pace was even faster & that 3 yr. old Big Red pass them & kicked those 4 yr. old rear ends in record time. From last to 1st in the Derby & Preakness & set records. Set the fastest pace ever in the Belmont, held it & set new WR. It made no difference with him. He was the total package.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Time is only important to those in prison. f
AllStarBugler 1 year ago
I removed my comments. I decided you cannot debate Secretariat haters & to claim they are experts. That is a far reach trying to undermine the intelligence of many fans that knows different. Its like some kind of expert trying convince someone that apples don't fall from a tree when ripe & that water runs up hill.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I think you have fallen into a trap that most horseplayers fall into at some time or another: FALLING I LOVE WITH A HORSE.
Quickest way to the poor house, kid.
I quit betting in 2000 after watching the video replay of Gary Stevens using a buzzer on Thunder Gulch in the 1995 derby. (You can see the replay of the "battery transaction" here on youtube.
I have forgotten more about horse racing than you will ever learn.
AllStarBugler 1 year ago
@AllStarBugler This 62 yr. old kid has been around probably a lot longer than you sonny. You probably was in diapers when Secretariat was around. I pulled myself through the Vietnam war jungle & started al life at home while you was still around playing with toy ponies. I seen all his TC races & heard all the experts the things he did that no other horse in history never done. If thats the trap I fallen into then the Charlie Hattons, Pay Lynchs & Eddie Arcaros to mention a few did as well..
rscarbro100 1 year ago
62? Then stop acting like a 12 year old.
I'm done with this discussion.
AllStarBugler 1 year ago
@AllStarBugler Course you are done with this discussion. The "FACTS" got the best of ya.. Quit acting like a expert in which everyone here knows your not. Probably need to be taken to the woodshed Sonny. But its alright to pretend your one. Kids play fantasy games all the time. This is a place not to play them.(smile
rscarbro100 1 year ago
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rscarbro100 1 year ago