Answering the Skeptics - Part 1: Mike Leonard asks questions about the Church

[skewed12]

One doesn't practice a sport out of a feeling of obligation; he practices because he wants to, because he likes the sport.

If someone feels bored at church and yet is there physically, not mentally, he's there out of a feeling of obligation, because it is the "right thing" to do, because he believes God wants him to go to church.

You can't psyche yourself up for something you don't want to do. You can merely slog through the drudgery and get it over with.

[CoryTheRaven]

@2stormcloud Your hypothesis does not follow. Movies are usually fictional and that fact has no particular bearing on whether or not they are boring. Pro-wrestling can be quite exciting and its all built on the falsehood of being real. Nah, you don't seem to have thought this through.

[SunsetSix]

Father, your cameraman needs to stop using his zoom button so much!

[MoDeeSeventyThree]

I always thought that the Eucharist was symbolically the body of Christ; I've been told that the Church doesn't see it that way; that in fact it changes into Christs body through some process? Explain?

[GawdOfThunder]

Just stay home on Sundays and save 10%... You don't need to sit through the BS of churches.

[psevdhome]

Thanks for the video. I'm an Eastern Orthodox seminarian, but I can still relate to the fact that it can sometimes be teadious to attend liturgy, but I find that partaking of the Eucharist always invigorates and strengthens me spiritually.Of course it helps that in my country the service is in the vernacular, and not for example in old Slavonic or Old Greek. But nevertheless full concentration on the prayers and the service help me cope. Thanks for your thoughts.

[wordonfirevideo]

@2stormcloud Could you trade in any more anti-religious cliches? Religion has outlasted all those who have prophesied its doom. This is precisely because it corresponds to the deepest longing of the human heart. And try as you might, you secularists will not succeed in denying this.

[Raftiinstitute]

You are playing a game that tries to remove peoples ability to reason; the Bible is full of Satanic passages and you are not able to refute my "A" game.

The Bible mentions Unicorns and four legged flying insects, and clearly states that disobediant children shall be put to death- AND promises everlasting life- Repent!

[dashan091]

@Raftiinstitute You ignore 99% of scripture to cherry pick & create an image of religion that u hate and that no one could possibly believe in. What does that not surprise us! Maybe if u cared to study the historical & cultural context of the texts that obsesses infidelsDOTorg u might come of with a more accurate interpretation e.g.

"......And if your eye should cause u to sin, pluck it out".

[bigguitar22]

But practise of an instrument or basketball has a goal - to perform and improve. What is the end point of practising religion - it doesn't make us better people - clearly so. Isn't it really preparation for death - when you lot feel the game really starts? An hour "practising" religion is an hour wasted perhaps - one hour closer to salvation?

[wordonfirevideo]

@bigguitar22 Everything else in life follows from what we praise, for our praise signals what we hold in highest esteem. Right praise of God is therefore the key to the right ordering of one's life. I can't think of anything more important, can you?

[Raftiinstitute]

@wordonfirevideo So if we praise health do we get it, or is your arguement just wishful thinking?

[CoryTheRaven]

@bigguitar22 Your criticism makes no sense. If someone was accomplished at religion, why would they need to keep practicing it?

[wordonfirevideo]

@zyxw8 If there are any people in Hell (the church doesn't oblige us to say that there are), they are there because they absolutely insist on it! God is not a cruel tyrant; he is someone who knows only how to love. But that love can be rejected--and that leads to suffering.

[wordonfirevideo]

@zyxw8 But why be so extreme about it? I don't see anything necessarily fanatical about learning to play an instrument or cultivating a friendship or going to Mass. Brainwashing? Hardly.

[wordonfirevideo]

@zyxw8 Why should it? People discipline themselves so as to achieve the excellence of hitting a golf ball well or playing the piano or becoming a good friend. Are these examples of brainwashing??

[gisellebaptiste21]

Church goers today are often influenced by what they see on TV. They want the thrill of excitement however the Mass is not entertainment. It is discipline as you say. My parish priest often says that Catholics will have a hard time in heaven because if you cannot spent at least one hour with God then how are you going to spend eternity in His Presence? We as Catholics need to know what we are going to Mass for. That is to encounter Christ in His Word as well as His Body.

[FalcaoWesley]

Good point about practising the faith!

[DollyHot]

@highperactive1

Galatians 3:23

Before faith came, we were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed.

Galatians 3:24

Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian.

[wjb67ii]

To be honest everyone zones out sometimes...it's what our minds do. The trick is becoming aware of our wandering thoughts and being able to bring ourselves back into focus (something I larned to do, actually, doing Zen meditation). I divide the mass into sections...if I find myself drifting during one I try to look forward to the next one and engage it more wholeheartedly. And I try to keep in mind that every part of the mass is a group prayer that we are all active rather than passive in.

[Teresitaddw]

If we went to Mass thirsting for Christ and following in our minds, hearts and souls each one of the prayers that the priest says, then our experience of Mass would be totally different each time!!

[wolf1750]

What about developing an allergic reaction to all that hypocritical piousness/piety that many priests exhibit? ;-)

[billyboyjennings]

God needs more money!!!!

[ephesus]

This video has nothing to do with skepticism. Why did you call it "answering skeptics"? No atheist cares about how entertaining your church services are.

[wordonfirevideo]

I agree.

[templar2980]

The Mass is not about just being entertained, it is about observing the real presence of our Lord in the eucharist, it is the apex of what it means to be Catholic!, the sacraments are the means by which we recieve salvation, how is that boring.

very disturbing that some reduce there faith to a "ah do I have to go" category.

[andyyyp2]

@templar2980 It's not surprising given the hideous aesthetic ghastliness of the post Vatican 2 mass. Bring back the transcendent beauty of the Extraordinary Form.

[templar2980]

@andyyyp2

I agree with you to some extent, but being that I am a young man/parishioner in a post VII Church the 'no' form is the norm and in my parish it is always done with great respect and reverence (though that can't be said for them all) and we have been celebrating mass in the 'eo' form as well but only on a once or twice a month basis these last couple of years.

To me they both offer the same sanctifying graces, but if the Church decides to go back to the old form I'm all for it.

[Tintmeister]

Father - I suggest skeptics generally have no agenda with men of good will. Many (skeptics) too would have the world be a better place then it is. I notice only a skeptic has the fiber to condem the parade of hucksters, liers and thieves pedaling their wares from behind the pulpit every Sunday on the T.V., i.e. Hinn, Copeland, Swagart, Haggard etc. etc. all living large preying on the hopes and fears of good people given to magical thinking. This brand of Christiandom offends deeply.

[elvismilk]

Keep up the great comments.

[elvismilk]

I just got back from Cayucos and starting reading some comments, yours had me smiling. It seems so simple FreeThinker1955, why can't they get it. William James would be proud of these imaginations though.

[wordonfirevideo]

Oh stop sympathizing with FreeThinker! He's a complete ideologue.

[elvismilk]

In other words, what, a heathen, a pagan, a heretic? Come on Fr. Barron, I know you have some TrisTram Shandy in you.

[wordonfirevideo]

No. I rather like pagans. And I find authentic heretics fascinating.  What bothers me are secularist ideologues who are more interested in belittling religious people than actually engaging religious arguments.

[elvismilk]

For every Wilberforce there is a secular ideologue, for every authentic heretic there is, wait a minute there is no such thing, you tried to get me to say 2+2 = 5, you're tricky Fr. Barron, next thing I would see is Clint's Korean lighter starting the flames, oh wait, I have watched "Back to the Future" too much, this isn't 1625 and my name isn't Giordano Bruno, wew, I was starting to question reality.

[wordonfirevideo]

More cliches from Mr. Herod!

[wordonfirevideo]

Where does this bias against the imagination come from? Poetry, art, architecture, philosophy, literature are all the children of imagination. And they speak no truth?

[elvismilk]

1) Anthromorphic - Us

2) Supernatural - imagination - God

3) Outside of time, space, unknowables

4) God's habitat see 3)

5) God will never, ever be known, impossible to know an unknowable, period.

[wordonfirevideo]

But as Thomas Aquinas said, I can know what God is not, and that's important. Most of the "attributes" of God described in our theology are under this rubric. To say that God is immutable is just to say that he doesn't change; to say he is eternal is just to say that he is not in time, etc. What he is, I don't really know. But knowing what he's not does, in its own way, help.

[elvismilk]

And as Ptolemy stated the earth is at our universe's center, and that stood for centuries, guess what? incorrect, yep sorry but Mr. immutable does change to create, guess what Mr. outside of time does what? create time, and finally Mr. Knowing knows, guess what? that every word every author attributed to him would need to be changed into a New Testament, wow, that's knowing. Love you still Fr. Barron, keep up the great work.

[wordonfirevideo]

Come on, Elvis, we've been over this before. God is not, in is ownmost nature, effected by the act of creation. And God's knowing is not derivative but creative. And I'm not sure what Ptolemy has to do with anything in this context!

[elvismilk]

You have just proved my point, thank you, you as a mortal cannot know God's ownmost nature, his derivative concerning creation, I appreciate your reach, actually extending your knowledge with the help of the wings of an angel, but guess what, you and I can never, ever , know. I have left the building, thank you and good night.

[wordonfirevideo]

No.  You're embracing a complete agnosticism; I'm saying that knowing what God is not is knowing alot. It is knowing, for example, that he doesn't change, for he did, he would be one creature among many.

[elvismilk]

Religious faith is complete agnosticism, Huxley might have coined the phrase, but men of faith are responsible for the word having definition. Well and I could add ,God's invisible nature doesn't hurt either.

[highperactive1]

Christianity teaches that God does change. It teaches he changed his mind when he said "The Law" would last forever, he changed his form into that of a man etc...

[elvismilk]

If you know what he does not, then you must know all that he does, how do you arrive at that postulate?

[wordonfirevideo]

Then why do you keep listening, Herod?

[elvismilk]

We listen, because like Pilate, we harbor hope that mankind is better than the image God made him to be, but it never turns out the way theology says, oh well, love you Fr. Barron.

[wordonfirevideo]

That hope is based upon your sense of the unconditioned good, which is the same as saying your sense of God. You listen because, like Herod, you know, deep down, that I'm right!

[elvismilk]

Fr. Barron if I actually thought any of your insane ideas were correct, I would shoot the first arrow at Custer's last stand, but I am still standing with the true belief that the archaic myths of dead men, you profefess to believe in, are just not true, sorry I love your passion, but passion maketh not truth.

[wordonfirevideo]

Tell me precisely what you think I believe in and I'll tell you whether you're right or not. I have a sneaking suspicion that, despite all of my protestations and clarifications, you think I'm a Biblical literalist.

[elvismilk]

I would never think that of you, your articulation in your videos demonstrates what any reasoning man in the modern world would never do also, and that is to take the Bible literally. Sacred Selection has evolved too much.

[elvismilk]

Mass is the same bad message 52 times a year. U2, on the other hand, performs for people the same great concert aprroximately 52 times a year, and people keep paying for tickets. Do you see the problem here? R.C.C?

[wordonfirevideo]

What precisely is "bad" about the message of God's infinite love expressed in the dying and rising of Christ? But I'll leave that to the side. The Mass hasn't a thing to do with entertainment; so I don't get the U2 comparison.

[elvismilk]

Fr. Barron it has to do with getting yourself prepared for excellence, seriously, I think you are excellent, it's your faith that is not.

[Tintmeister]

I watched a number of Father Barron's presentations, find him thoughtfull and belive him to be of good will or genuine minister. As a skeptic, my question remains - where does the realm of the supernatural end and the realm of the imagination begin? I suggest the two are

inseperable, leaving me free to appreciate the wisdom and criticize the folly of faith and "sacred" texts.

[wordonfirevideo]

I presume that you're using the term "imagination" in a pejorative sense, to designate what isn't real. The existence of the properly supernatural is ascertained through metaphysical speculation and through those precious direct manifestations that we refer to as revelation. That said, the imagination plays a key role in the actual experience of the transcendent.

[Tintmeister]

Thank you for the reply, always welcome

an opportunity to consider a different perspective. I think we agree revelartion an interesting topic. Was it Scpott Peck who pointed out the sub conscious is always at work and often confused with revelation and indifferent to matters of faith? I am more comfortable viewing the matter as wonderous rather then magical and point out the " virgin" appears only to Catholics. Revelation, imigination, halucination, properly supernatural? Regards...

[elvismilk]

Hey Fr. Barron, has your first week as a Milkian gone well? On skeptics part 2, I suggested a thesaurus for your script writers, "sumptuous", once is enough but 3x's? Imagination is the only thing that can falsely experience transcendence, it can't know supernatural or even speculate about it, and the metaphysical realm is unknowable to the nonmetaphysical. All three of these will never manifest themselves through revelation. Impossible.

[JDZwiers19]

You said you don't need God to be a good person. Yet you said that you can't stop people from having multiple partners. I said many people do, through faith and effort. So is God helping them? or are they just naturally better then people who sleep around?

[JDZwiers19]

The only thing that separates you from them is you have a better temperament. More self control. Lust is a sin, not the act of sex its self.

[JDZwiers19]

I know you wouldn't rape anyone. That's my point. You probably don't even feel the slightest urge to. Most people wouldn't. But some people do. Where does this desire come from? You keep saying I am trying to associate sex with rape. I am not. What I am saying is that the lustful desires that lead to promiscuity lead others to rape.

[JDZwiers19]

No I'm not. I'm sorry if you gathered that from my comments. What I was trying to do was to explain that a person who sleeps with multiple partners and a person who commits rape are succumbing to the same compulsion and the gap that divides them is not as great as you think.

[JDZwiers19]

Do you own a bible?

[JDZwiers19]

Why do say that? I never said anything like that. I certainly don't believe that. Most educated theologians don't (not that I am one or anything). You are probably less likely to rape anyone than many Christians. But what do you think that means? You have seriously misjudged me.

You say you can control your urges to rape without Gods help. With prayer and effort many people do wait till marriage. Yet you say it is unrealistic for you. Do you see the contradiction?

[JDZwiers19]

It is our surrender to lust that leads to sexual crimes. Porn leads to child porn. Sexual addiction leads to rape. Promiscuity leads to abortion. It's all lust man. Sex is not a bad thing. Lust is.

Please send a PM on those bible passages. I will be happy to read them.

[JDZwiers19]

We have to breath. We don't have to be sluts.

If every person waited for marriage, then you could know that your safe. HIV wouldn't exist.

Promoting promiscuity as natural and ethical is akin to murder. The church promotes chastity. I think you are a bit confused.

[JDZwiers19]

No they don't. But there is a lot of evidence that suggests that the promotion of condoms promotes promiscuity. It is a difficult situation, but I don't think selling safe sex will help. Its gives people a false sense of security and they take greater risks. The promotion of condoms is basically like selling promiscuous sex. To say we can't change human nature is a surrender to pornography (including child pornography), prostitution, rape, abortion etc. It is changing my friend. For the worse.

[tethercott]

If going to mass is comparable to "practicing a sport," then why doesn't going to mass make you any "better" at being Catholic? If people are BORED, they space out, text message, sleep, etc, and they obviously aren't retaining any of the readings or the homily, and by the time the communion rolls around, they are already gone and have lost interest, so they have no focus on the gravity of what is supposedly taking place (transubstantiation). Going to mass is NOT like practicing a sport...

[JDZwiers19]

So you believe that somebody who is engaging in promiscuous intercourse, and decides not to use a condom, when the church very clearly condemns both, and that person contracts HIV, the church is responsible for murder? Is it the promiscuity that caused the infection or the lack of a condom? It seem that people have the mentality that HIV is caused by not wearing condoms which is ridiculous.

[skyebusters820]

Although I agree with ur first point about an unchaste husband infecting his chaste wife, i think we need to take a closer look at this issue. Take a look at western countries such as USA and Europe, despite their higher education and use of condoms, HIV and AIDs is still spreading amongst gay men. Take for example Andrew Sullivan, an Oxford educated gay-man who ended up with HIV despite condoms, education, and the like. In this case, Faithful servant has a point too...

[AFaithfulServant]

Read what the Pope actually said. You clearly haven't.

That said, as it views contraception as an intrinsic evil, the Church condemns all usage of condoms in sexual acts. It also condemns promiscuity.

[AFaithfulServant]

No. Condoms certainly do not have a 0% failure rate, even when stored and used properly. However, in an individual act, they do lessen the rate of transmission - the Pope never said otherwise. I would like to stress that the fact that the use of a condom in a particular act of intercourse reduces transmission rates does not make it an effective tool at a societal level for curbing the spread of HIV/AIDS.

[AFaithfulServant]

The child was not excommunicated. Her parents - and all other Catholics involved in the abortion - were. For one thing, no Catholic authority actually excommunicated anybody. The excommunications were "latae sententia" - automatic, self-inflicted. The Abp. of Olanda and Recife merely announced them. Obviously, excommunications incurred automatically according to Canon Law cannot themselves violated Canon Law!

[AFaithfulServant]

I'll quote Abp. Sobrinho, the ordinary of Olanda and Recife, on the matter: "To be subject to this penalty is it is necessary to be of age. The Church is very benevolent, especially with minors."

[AFaithfulServant]

Once again, you need to actually read what Pope Benedict said. At a societal level, widespread availability and promotion of condoms increases promiscuity so dramatically that the rate of infection goes up, even though the chances of beign infected in a given sexual encounter with someone who is HIV positive go down.

[AFaithfulServant]

Read Church law.

Canon 1323:The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:

1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;

Obviously, you need to do better research. :P

[AFaithfulServant]

As TJB5 wrote, you should read what Dr. Edward C. Green has to say on the matter. He's an expert on the subject from one of the most prestigious universities on the planet. Are you?

[AFaithfulServant]

Your information is factually incorrect. an 8 year old CANNOT be excommunicated, period. I advise that you read the actual documents involved.

[urbanh196398105]

i think we need a moderator here to keep the comments on-topic :-)

This is a great video about the typical complaints about Mass from Catholics who are at least TRYING to regularly attend Mass.

it's good for us to remember what's actually happening at Mass, on the spiritual level, i think.

God job Fr Barron!

[Jitpring]

All of this is very fashionable of you. See a new book called:

-Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies, by David Bentley Hart

Also see:

-God is No Delusion: A Refutation of Richard Dawkins, by Thomas Crean

[TELEMACUS800]

Mr FreeThinker, I do find the logic of your response more than just a little bit patronizing. I think that people can make up their own minds in regards to Father Barron's presentation without your help and those who might come to a different conclusion as your own are not by necessity any less educated than yourself. Further, your own posts have their own kinds of "discrepencies embedded in your own doctrines" as do all systems of conviction.

[xtrashed]

Now look at the Asian countries! Current (2007) statistics: Phillipines: (abstinence/fidelity promoted) Population 91.4 Million HIV/AIDS sufferers = 8,300 2007 AIDS Deaths = less than 200 Thailand: (condoms promoted) Population = 66.1 Million HIV/AIDS sufferers = 610,000 2007 AIDS Deaths = 30,000 Source: hivinsite . ucsf . edu

[makaldasa]

a ha! Here is a good example of association not inferring causality. Thailand promotes condoms BECAUSE they have so much HIV, not the other way around! Condoms don't cause AIDS, they are a response to an AIDS endemic. We have lots of highschool security and many school shootings compared to Argentina. It would be right to tell Argentina "don't increase your school security or you'll get school shootings like we have!". The security is a response, not a cause.

[makaldasa]

"wouldn't" be right to tell Argentina, I mean

[AFaithfulServant]

...except that the condom promotion started BEFORE HIV was particularly problematic. I advise you to find and look at a case study of the Philippines and Thailand, which were once in very similar situations, took very different approaches, and have ended up with very different results.

[skyebusters820]

i actually advise you to compare Christian nations with Muslim nations. Islamic countries are even more strict that Catholic countries when it comes to contraception/condoms/homosexu­ality and you see that AIDS/HIV are almost 0% as compared to Christian nations. I still stand to my position that promiscuity is the problem with the disease, not the use or not the use of condoms.

[AFaithfulServant]

In turn, I stand by a position held by Edward Green, Director of Harvard's AIDS Prevention Research Project, and a growing number of not-Catholic AIDS experts that widespread availability and promotion of condoms increases promiscuity.

[skyebusters820]

sorry faithful servant, i replied to the wrong person. i actually agree with u, my message was supposed to go to the freethinker below.....that is why i brought up the example of islamic countries that tend to have the same teaching on condoms as the catholic church

[xtrashed]

Of countries with high HIV rates, those with relatively high numbers of Catholics (e.g. Mozambique) are all located in the south/south-east.

Sources for statistics:

catholic-hierarchy . org/country/sc3.html

avert . org/subaadults.htm

(remove the space before and after dot),

[xtrashed]

Notice how no country which is over 40% Catholic has a high HIV rate with the exception of Lesotho, a tiny country which is completely land-locked by Protestant/pagan South Africa. The prevalance of HIV in a nation is determined more by geography than religious demographics. Southern and south-east Africa has far higher infection rates than the rest of the continent, including numerous highly Catholic countries in central Africa.

[xtrashed]

The ten African countries with the highest rates of AIDS are:

1) Swaziland (26.1% HIV rate / 5.56% Catholic)

2) Botswana (23.9% HIV rate / 4.78% Catholic)

3) Lesotho (23.2% HIV / 53.62% RC)

4) South Africa (18.1% HIV / 6.36% RC)

5) Namibia (15.3% HIV / 16.78% RC)6) Zimbabwe (15.3% HIV / 8.79% RC)

7) Zambia (15.2% HIV / 28.22% RC)

8) Mozambique (12.5% HIV / 22.33% RC)

9) Malawi (11.9% HIV / 21.76% RC)

10) Uganda (6.7 % HIV / 42.28%)

[JTownSmith]

lol which african countries arent RC?

[xtrashed]

This isn't a true "African top ten" though. Some small island countries such as Cape Verde, Reunion and the Seychelles are over 90% Catholic and all have very low AIDS rates.

[xtrashed]

The ten countries in continental Africa with the highest percentage of Catholics are: 1) Equitorial Guinea (93.52% Catholic / HIV rate 3.4%) 2) Burundi (65.25% Catholic / HIV rate 2.0%) 3) Lesotho (53.62% RC/ 23.2% HIV) 4) Congo (50.49% RC / 3.5% HIV) 5) Angola (50.04% RC / 2.1% HIV) 6) Democratic Rep. of Congo (49.45% RC / 1.2-1.5% HIV) 7) Rwanda (47.92% RC / 2.8% HIV) 8) Gabon (46.42% RC / 5.9% HIV) 9) Uganda (42.28% RC / 6.7% HIV) 10) Zambia (28.22 RC / 15.2% HIV)

[xtrashed]

If the hypothesis that Catholic doctrine spreads HIV and AIDS, we would expect to see increased infection rates in countries that contain more Catholics. Instead, we find decreased HIV rates in Catholic-dominated countries (although the trend is not statistically significant). The idea that Catholic teaching encourages the spread of HIV is not confirmed by the demographics.

[xtrashed]

The Church is right and unassailable facts are there prove it, no matter what lies her enemies repeat: where abstinence and fidelity are the norm, HIV-AIDS declines, where Catholics are the majority and the Church has earned respect of people, even in the worst social and economic situations, HIV-AIDS declines. Look at the statistics.

[skyebusters820]

the whole flaw in your argument is that if people aren't going to take the church seriously about not having sex before marriage, then why will they take the church seriously about not using condoms. for the most part, many people tend to do things regardless of what the church tells them to do or not to do.

[AFaithfulServant]

So, if the Church is going to be ignored, why does it matter what the Church says? Should it not, if it's only going to be ignored anyway, preach that which She believes?

[urbanh196398105]

great video - Thanks Father Barron!

[josephdc22]

Beautiful! Thanks Rev. Barron!

[TELEMACUS800]

Perhaps the motivations for your persistence would be more interesting, and illuminating, than the trail of comments that you have left behind? Your objections to religion introduce nothing new and represent standard critiques of religious practice and belief. Father Barron has likely considered these and found them wanting, and my guess is that you are bright enough to know this. As such who are your posts really for?

[TELEMACUS800]

It must be dreadful to live in such fear. However, might there be a more constructive way to deal your desire for a world without religion than to haunt the comments section of Father Barron's videos? I mean after all your posts, don't you think that you have made your point quite clear?

[TJB5]

"Murder by association"? Pretty incendiary words. With all due respect, I'd invite you to first read the entire text of Pope Benedict's recent commentary re: condoms & AIDS in Africa. I think you'll find something different than your characterization. Further, re: condom efficacy and the sundry complexities of the HIV/AIDS issue in Africa, you may want to read what Edward C. Green has to say about the matter. Green is director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at Harvard. Thanks.

[TELEMACUS800]

For someone as morally outraged as you present yourself as being, you seem oddly compelled to return again and again and again to Father Barron's videos. If you are as offended as you claim to be, troll around the other videos on youtube until you find something that conforms better to your sense of rightousness.

[YOURINQUIRER]

I want to thank you for answering people's boredom with Catholicism in exacltly this fashion. Keep up the good work and don't let anyone convince you to answer in any other fashion whatsoever.

[iidontcareeee]

This not only is gonna help my Catholicism, it's gonna help with my martial arts, too!

[NutCheese]

Cradle Catholic don't know how good they have it. Try sitting through a baptist sermon on a Sunday... they can be painfully long. If they can't see the beauty of Mass at least they can appreciate that it's not long. There is a lot of beauty to be found though.

[sthilaa]

This is wonderful Fr. Baron. I hope there are many more to come in this series. It could be *very* beneficial for those with questions about the Catholic Church.

[koobyy]

Thank you so much for discussing this.

[Greynomad38]

Ummm, maybe he'll get more defined as in the next video, but how, exactly, is Leonard a skeptic?

[bush555]

Wow this is exactly what we all need to hear! Thanks man, I can relate this with perfecting guitar!

[julesa5]

Thank you for this clip. I don't find mass boring. I love it but I needed to be reminded to bring my A game. I have 3 small boys and being prepared will help me get more out of practice.

[penguinchicky]

I love Mass ... I would and try to go every day if I can;0)

[TJB5]

Strong, practical, insightful stuff, as usual, Fr Barron. Thanks. I look forward to future installments in this series. BTW, gradually making my way through your book on Aquinas. Quite an achievement. You've not only made the hefty headwork of reading STA accessible, but reminded us of how spiritually uplifting and Christocentric his writings are, as well.

Is the next book on Irenaeus? If so, when's publication? Not that you're busy with anything else, of course. :-)

[pickitupp]

perhaps audience isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. Always having to worry about self-consciousness when it comes to singing, as well as "knowing your lines" and how when to sit, stand, kneel etc.--I find to be a great distraction from focusing on Christ and cultivating a more appropriate state of mind. Perhaps I should check out a Latin mass sometime if I can find it in my area. Well, in any event, I'm glad that you make these videos and deal with issues like this; you're unique!

[Entropy3ko]

I sing HORRIBLY. What I do: I sing, but not so loud because I can hear myself being tone-deaf.

With practice "to know the line" i.e. to know what to do in mass should become authomatic, then you can focus on what is going on and on Christ.

That is the point of a ritual, that has fixed parts so you know what to do automatically without losing concentration on what is important.

Practice makes perfect. Sometimes prayer was tough on the saints too, they are saints because they persevered.

[Jitpring]

From Benedict XVI, as Joseph Ratzinger:

"What happened after the Council was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it - as in a manufacturing process - with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product."

-Preface to the French edition of Klaus Gamber's The Reform of the Roman Liturgy: Its Problems and Background

[Jitpring]

Part of this fabrication is that the priest now faces the people (though nowhere was this mandated by Vatican II), transforming him into a performer. It's very telling that you used the word "audience," though this is not at all what we are at Mass. However, we've been conditioned to think like this. Incredibly, I've even heard applause after more than a few Masses. This reveals that the people don't really know what the Mass is.

Read: The Spirit of the Liturgy, by Joseph Ratzinger.

[iidontcareeee]

To the general public, especially potential Catholics: you will discover online a tiny number of people called "RadTrads" (for Radical Traditionalists) who will use any excuse whatsoever to trash the current mass, known as the Ordinary Mass, the Paul VI, or, incorrectly, as the "Novus Ordo". The Mass as practiced by the overwhelming majority of Catholics IS approved of, created by, maintained by, celebrated by THE VATICAN. The current, mainstream Catholic Mass is holy, true, and legit.

[Jitpring]

I'm not a "rad trad." Please don't resort to such marginalization techniques. I don't question the validity of the Novus Ordo. I question its banality and perversion. As Joseph Ratzinger himself, now Pope Benedict XVI, said (cited earlier), it's a fabrication.

Friends, read all of Benedict's/Ratzinger's books that you can. Embrace the reform of the reform.

Also google for an amazon list of mine with these words:

What Happened to the Catholic Church? jackson

[Jitpring]

By the way, iidontcareeee, the Mass was NOT created by the Vatican. It was created by Jesus Christ.

[Jitpring]

(1)

The Brave New World has diabolically elevated entertainment capacity to a supreme criterion of value concerning all things. But the Mass is not an entertainment. It's the re-presentation of the sacrifice on Calvary.

On the other hand, I don't blame those who don't find the Novus Ordo Mass, as usually done, very meaningful, because it all too often stinks of yet another exercise in cheap narcissism. It reeks of conformity to the world.

The questioner should find a Tridentine Mass.

[Jitpring]

(2)

The questioner, and all others who'd wrongly use entertainment capacity as a criterion, should read Dietrich von Hildebrand's brilliant little essay, "The Case for the Latin Mass." Google for it with these words:

case latin mass hildebrand

The traditional Mass is something for which people would die. The Novus Ordo, all too often, smells of Oprahism. Who'd shed a drop of blood for Oprahism?

[cowmansr]

I think there's a second issue here, which relates: Even if we realize that Mass is not entertainment, we are still conditioned by entertainment, so that we have shorter attention spans, and higher expectations of excitement, which makes eveything serious less interesting.

But, as the video and you guys said, Mass done well, with a priest who seems interested, with a good homily, and with good music, will keep our attention much better than a poorly conducted Mass.

[Jitpring]

cowmansr, I agree with you.

[pickitupp]

haha. My priest told me the other day that he knows a lot of people who went to mass every day as their lentan pennance! I don't know really what I think of mass to be honest. I like it when not too many people go because . I got the social anxiety, so I just don't enjoy being around people--period--but I also dislike sitting next to people, and feeling embarassed about singing (or not.) I understand that back when the mass was done in Latin, there was far less participation for the audience...

[Entropy3ko]

Well it's true back then it was in latin, but people also used to go to sunday-school and learnabout mass, so they did know what was going on.

The pre-Vatican II mass, the Tridentine Mass as it is called, is really beautiful and I am glad it can be celebrated again.

I am not saying the new mass is bad, of course. I think it's a good thing now mass is in the common language of people.

The beauty of the Catholic Church, in my opinion is also the variety in lithurgy.

[Entropy3ko]

I do not find Mass boring :P Maybe it's me, but I find it very spiritual in every part.

Sure sometimes praying might be "a drag", but true, you must discipline yourself.

[rw221192]

really good

[krscrossed]

I really enjoy these videos. They are very interesting and informative and i just want to thank you for posting : )

[catolicobruno]

I take your words as mine! Thank you Fr. Barron.