Why be Religious?: Father Matthew Presents

[KenATL]

I LOVE this video! It just popped up in my recommended videos. I have been a fan for a long time, Father Matthew. This is another classic. Once again, you have given a meaningful response to something that is all too common in contemporary discussions and particularly social media. I'm going to post a link to this video on my Facebook page. Thank you again, Father Matthew!

[FatherMatthew]

@KenATL Thank you!

[kramas1027]

I have to say this. Hail The Dark One!

[elon92]

But ... why be spiritual in the first place? :S ... that was kinda my why I clicked on this video :P

[FatherMatthew]

@elon92 Hmm! Good question. Sorry that I didn't answer it here.

[elon92]

@FatherMatthew Btw, could I do an interview with you about being religious and stuff like that over the internet?

[FatherMatthew]

@elon92 You could message me via Youtube with questions, if you like. Please be patient, though. Most religious questions are big ones!

[elon92]

@FatherMatthew Well I was thinking a bit more "private" questions, about how your life as a religious person is and what challenges you have faced etc, things that you might not want to post on youtube :P

[FatherMatthew]

@elon92 the 'send message' function on my YouTube profile is private (well, as private as the internet can be!)

You could try that avenue, instead of this.

[Hyenashowl]

Your church has a beautiful building.

[saibotmark]

priest need to be more religious to have money and funding.

[FatherMatthew]

@saibotmark There is truth to that! But money is a tool for any community to live its life...I hope, looking from the outside, that we all don't seem crass about money. One of the sentences we pray often at the collection (of money) is "All things come of thee, O Lord, and of thine own have we given thee."

[saibotmark]

@FatherMatthew its the same reason to muslims,born again, hindus..etc.

[katinkers]

The video implies that worship isn't efficient without a crowd, building, "the best prayer" (like there's such a thing), etc.. terribly unconvincing. Organized religion is the biggest problem with religion.

[FatherMatthew]

@katinkers really? terribly unconvincing? why not just plain unconvincing? Anyway, you are right, in some respect, for the church does obscure God as much as it reveals God. But I do think that more checks and balances are available to a person of faith if they are in a community. Merry Christmas!

[Tamaris13]

I have been contemplating this question deeply and everything I am finding online has been sorely disappointing. I wish people would offer deeper insights than what is currently being offered. Perhaps if this Father ever gets the chance to contemplate the question further he might be able to offer a more insightful answer to this question in the future. There's nothing he highlighted in this small film that cannot be achieved through other avenues or that speaks me.

[rjky1986]

So you would have a job? Well, aren't you kind, lad?

[GODandPEACE]

@ FatherMatthew

Why be religious? So you would have a job?

[KiraWei1]

So true about the food. God bless 'em.

[908381stud]

Well said.

[tmh726]

Ok, I havr to ask even before watching the rest, why do you have a three-barred Orthodox Cross?

[funnyguytoo]

Dear Father Matthew,

I have heard of a time when the Dalai Lama was asked what was the best religion, people expected to hear "Tibetan Buddhism", but instead he said "The religion that brings you closer to God and makes you a better person." So when I am asked that question even though I'm a Christian and he's a Buddhist, I respond with that answer. What is your opinion about this? No offense and with all respect.

[differnet]

SpiritFaith reminded me of a favorite quote from Ba hai; Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism

[dsindc]

differnet writes "The US simply has a market of ideals that is far more vocal and vociferous than Europe." I goes beyond merely giving voice to 'ideals'.Frequently that too is self serving. I'm speaking of cold hard statistics. Europeans tend to take care of their own. I've been several times, but not lived there. I've noticed things here in any big city rarely seen in Europe - severe poverty, homelessness, lack of health care. E.G. in Austria, shelter is guaranteed by their constitution.

[differnet]

dsindc... And what you loose in those countries is freedom. I lived in Germany for many years. It use to bother me that I did not see their handicapped. I asked some friends and was told that they were cared for in hospitals. I've worked with the physically and mentally handicapped here in the USA. While they may not have had to struggle as much in the EU, a good majority of them did not want to be shunted off to hospitals and sanitoriums.

[differnet]

Moreover, dsindc, when you don't see the sick and the poor, you don't think about them.  There is a certain selfishness in Europe that use to give me pause. The assumption was that they didn't need to get involved with the poor and sick because the goverment would take care of them. That was equally as sad as what we see here. By the way, I grew up dirt poor here in the USA. I feel blessed that many people gave me help out of their love of God that allowed me to rise up out of poverty.

[badpanda84]

The problem with being relgious is.

Wernet the pharasies relgious- and yet we all know what Jesus though about the relgious leaders of the day

[badpanda84]

All we learn about relgion from the past is that it was a good way of controlling people by scaring by threathing them with hell ( and of course the ocassionally burinng at the stake)

[differnet]

Uh.. badpanda.. you might want to look up the Gospel of Inclusion. According to some denominations and groups no one is going to hell. It saddens me that you seem to have judge all denominations by a bad experience. I think that is very similar to being prejudiced.

[dsindc]

In a weird way, atheism can become a religion. The great philosopher William James defined religion as "that which an individual considers to be of utmost importance". The problem arises when whatever that is, is identified as the source of non-negotiable truth. So, if one is not a Maoist in 1967 China, you get killed. If you disagree with the R. Catholic Church in 1530 (Galileo), you come close to being burned at the stake. Sadly, any of these traditions have one thing on common- exlusion.

[differnet]

One can use any philosophy, political point of view or religion to serve themselves. Do you really think that the people who ran Communist countries were really intersted in creating a true Communist society? More likely they were just into the power. My goodness, wars and murder have been committed in the name of Democracy numerous times, but no one says Democracy is evil.

[dsindc]

That the Church has become "inclusive" is the exception rather than the rule. Most religions are not, e.g. Islam. Most Christian churches are hardly inclusive. Liberal Protestants ARE for the most part. Sadly, their churches are dying. From a psychological perspective, insecure individuals feel a need to feel 'justified' (to use a theological term). They need to create the "other", the Jew, the homosexual, the capitalist, etc. Very sad. I agree the Episcopal Church is on the right track.

[badpanda84]

yeah traditons that are thousands of years old.

That is the problem cause reglion was extermely corrupt a few thousands years old.

[differnet]

Hmmm... I would point out that atheism has brought on the worse excesses of the French Revolution and that all Communist regimes embraced atheism - and we know of the atrocities carried out by them. And for every bad thing you can say about religion, I would point out orphanages, hospitals and great works of good. Man uses God to justify his worse excesses.

[differnet]

Actually, you are quite wrong. The Red Brigade in Europe during the 50s, 60s, and 70s frequently bombed and killed (even going so far as to suicide bomb) and were atheists. You can also add the Weathermen and SBLA her in the US in the 1970s and 80s. What about the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, Communism and Stalinism or the French Revolution. All these groups and movements espoused atheism.

[dsindc]

differnet, it appears we are both Episcopalian. God knows we like to argue, & I have to disagree with you. I think evil emerges from any group that adopts some sort of dogma. Whether or not the dogma is religious in nature, or political... or even cultural is irrelevant. Maoism during the Cultural Revolution was something of a dogma- & religion. So is Communism currently in N. Korea. Dogmatic religious traditions, e.g. Catholicism in the Middle Ages are also capable of horrific evil. (cont)

[differnet]

dsindc, I am more inclined to believe that people use good ideas to do what is really quite self-serving. True Communism as an ideal sounds rather idealic. The same can be said of Capatlism, however, both ideas can be used for self-service and at that point they become toxic. The struggle as a Christian is to not allow your faith to be for self-service, rather to make it one simply about service.

[dsindc]

1) You wrote " wars and murder have been committed in the name of Democracy numerous times, but no one says Democracy is evil. " I agree. Ghandi said, "I find this Jesus person quite incredible... but I cannot say the same of Christians". The problem with any belief system, Marxism, Islam, Christianity, comes when adherents identify that system with God. Yes even Marxism contains elements of religion. Once that identification is made, there can be no alternatives, and no dialogue. (cont).

[dsindc]

2) When someone speaks of the inerrancy of scripture for instance, that it is the world of God 'period', they have turned it into a sort of deity. The same of the Catholic Church - certain papal edicts must be accepted as TRUTH. This becomes very dangerous and Jesus himself understood that lecturing the Jewish religious authorities that scripture was not an idol. But it had become that. Exodus says it's ok to kill your unruly child, and that slavery is ok. It says what it says !! (cont)

[dsindc]

Religion should be a vehicle that brings us closer to God. It should not be the focus. I'm afraid for most, it is. If someone thinks they have a monopoly on "truth", through their tradition, Christian, Muslim, whatever, then if they think they act according to that tradition, they can justify anything. That's the mindset of Bin Laden, I'm sure. You're correct, religion becomes self serving. Humans are only human. Episcopalians have veered away from that. Sadly, it's not a very popular approach.

[differnet]

It is a very hard approach and people are basically lazy. I've had some rather unique work experiences in my life. You know all that stuff in the bible about people being like sheep? Well, I've herded sheep and I must tell you, that all that stuff about sheep is an insult. Sheep are greedy, selfish, lazy and obstinent. Christianity is a gift in that it teaches us to overcome our human natures while still enjoying life.

[differnet]

I also want to say, that I sympathize with the sheep. It is very hard to live from love and service. One must constantly risk harm and pain. So, I can understand why seeking simple answers appeals to so many. I can only hope that as I go about my life, I'm helping them become something more than self-serving.

[brycejacksoncvt]

@badpanda84 that refers to the Churches actions , not simple traditions relating to prayer and spirituality .. I think you took Father Matthew's words the wrong way .

[badpanda84]

@brycejacksoncvt the church is organised religion - therefore the churches actions is the reason why people dislike religion. Things like prayer for example can be achieved at home

[brycejacksoncvt]

@badpanda84 true prayer can be achieved at home and many theologists have argued that baptism isnt even needed for Christian salvation so therefor just living a good life and praying fairly regularly is sufficient enough .. and you know what , they are right . I wouldnt have joined the Episcopal Church if it wasn't. It ranges from low church to high church to the anglo -catholics . Some low church members of the congregation come on special days(xmas,easter)for the feel and thats ok.

[brycejacksoncvt]

@badpanda84 The Episcopal Church is organised .. but not in the way I think your thinking .. I would suggest you research them first and then go from there .. If you like I can give you some places to look online that are NOT funded by the church or members of . Actually Wikipedia was my best source of info

[tango2romeo]

"Free food" hahaha Fr. M you're hilarious

[Simmsman2000]

Looz at me. I go around religious youtube videos so that i can bash them. my name is 75% of youtube atheists

[chalicechiq]

I LOVE this video!

[tellurm]

0:52 Non-believers can also access these traditions.

1:05 You can learn from the present and have a sense of community as a non-believer.

1:15 lol free food...Well, churches want your money...so....

1:25 We don't need to be religious to visit churches

1:28 We don't need to be religious to do good. In fact, religion causes a great deal of evil.

1:45 Religion really doesn't learn from its mistakes.. besides, we don't need to be religious to do so

[brycejacksoncvt]

@tellurm you know you dont HAVE to put money in the collection plate right ? So saying they want your money is absurd .. until Christmas I cant remember the last time I put money in the plate . Main reason I did it even then is that I KNOW that its going to the homeless shelter/food shelf DIRECTLY next to the church building . Religion can NOT cause evil without evil people behind it, like a gun. A gun without an evil person is just a hunk of metal.

[TheHellBound666]

religion has become more of a business campaign I've found, they try to attract new costumers, make their product look better or at par with the opposition and once you are a 'customer' you realise you're 'paying' for something you can get for free. I think religion corrupts itself with human error, greed, selfish ambitions no matter what, its just how humans are.

[differnet]

So, when was the last time you went to church? My church generally runs in the red, becaus we use our funds to sponsor a soup kitchen, free medical clinic and a homeless shelter. Our work as a group, allows us to aleviate much sadness in the world. Are you willing to at least consider that religion can also breed generosity and kindness. I invite you to visit an Episcopal Church.

[badpanda84]

But you dont need relgion to do good. however to commit evil attortics requires relgion.

Do you see any atheist becoming sucide bombers. That requires relgion

[differnet]

Historically atheist have killed a great many in the name of their ideology too. And while you are right, you do not need religion to do good, I have yet to meet an atheist in a soup kitchn or homeless shelter. I have yet to see a group of atheist get together to open a free medical clinic or visit the sick in hospitals. A person can do more good in a group than alone.

[badpanda84]

No we dont kill people in the name of our ideology- The communist regimes arent an example of atheistim. they are example of orignaized relgion - only instead of worshiping God they worship there leader

[differnet]

I was going to be flip with you and say that I thought your comment was a good rationalization. But here's what I really want to say to you. You are as inflexible in your belief as the most hard-core, right-wing, fundementalist Christian. Nothing I say would even create a crack in your prejudices. Life experiences will be the only thing that might change your mind. As I've said, I'm very sorry that some event or person in your life gave you such a prejudice. I wish you only joy in life.

[badpanda84]

the pharsies were relgious but not spritual. the point is if people just followed what Jesus said we would be better off. But of course all the relgious instuations havent been doing a good job of that

[SpiritFist]

Atheism is a negative. It implies absolutely NO positive values, NO ideology, and NO social programs. Furthermore, not only has atheism had literally no impact on these social events, it never will have an impact.

[badpanda84]

@SpiritFist Atheism is a negative. It implies absolutely NO positive values, NO ideology, and NO social programs"

But on the plus side atheist didn't hold back scientific progress by burning heretics and so called "witches".

It it wasn't for atheists we would still be burning witches at the stake and believing that demons cause disease

[brycejacksoncvt]

@badpanda84 Atheism and religion are both nessacery right now , especially in these times. They essentially keep one from getting too much of a strong hold plus Id prefer atheist scientists for the most part ... with a few liberal religious ones so we arent making human dog mutant babies lol

[badpanda84]

@brycejacksoncvt why are the both necessary -- it is essentially that the religious nut jobs don't get too much power I agree with that

[brycejacksoncvt]

@badpanda84 cause we need people that still have the undying glimmer of hope , and that is just more prevalent in religious people then not . We need that "take a last stand" man . Everything exists for a reason, including religion ... I guess that is my belief in destiny .. the whole thing happening cause it was meant too

[SpiritFist]

There is no feasible way to organize atheists behind a common positive social value. After that, the ideology a person, group, or government settles on cannot be credited to atheism. Atheism is to be neither rewarded or punished... because it can't have had anything to do with the resulting formation of positive values. I'm very sorry that some event or person in your life gave you such a prejudice and bias perception of what atheism actually is. I wish you only wisdom in life.

[differnet]

@SpiritFist I know a few perfectly nice atheists, but as a life ideology it is a punishment. It leaves you with nothing but materialism. And ultimately materialism is unhealthy.

[SpiritFist]

@differnet im sorry i hadnt been able to explain clearly enough. But if you could understand what atheism actually is you'd realize it is not a life ideology.

[dsindc]

Well ok, but.... there is solid evidence that there is a strong correlation between higher religiosity and social dysfunction. EG in the most religious states of the U.S., you also find the highest rates of divorce, crime, incarceration, drug use, lack of medical care, homelessness, etc. The same evidence pops up when comparing countries. Nearly all of the European Union countries have much less evidence of social ills than religious ones like the U.S. I'm not sure why, but facts are facts.

[differnet]

dsindc, Abraham Lincoln is credited with saying (historians do not know if he actually said this because the evidence is far from compelling) that, "Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side. My great concern is to be on God's side." Too often we justify what we want to do by claiming it is from God. Unless someone has a burning bush in their back yard, I've yet to see that anyone can truly know what God wants. I see too often in American denominations decrees about what God wants..

[dsindc]

differnet, I don't think we disagree that much. It does concern me though that we Americans are too concerned about being religious to follow Christ. Too many take a sort of greedy attitude - " I'm going to have this pizza since it's not going to do you much good - you have to be saved first". I'm afraid that Americans tend to gravitate to those denominations that support a rather greedy lifestyle. I have no time for 'prosperity theology', or spiritual fascism- "I'm saved, you're not".

[differnet]

dsindc, I definately think we agree on far more than we would disagree, but since I don't have a burning bush in my backyard, I'm sure I'm probably wrong on a few things. I struggle every day to be humble about my faith and my intelligence. I understand that many people want what I call the "one from Column A and two from Column B" kind of salvation. It's much harder to wake up and struggle with what I need to do to follow Christ. And many preachers prey on their need for simple answers.

[dsindc]

1) Well, as a hopefully growing Episcopalian I considered your points seriously, and mostly agree. I've argued with a dear friend who is a social worker about this issue. She told me there was nothing more upsetting to her than severely mentally ill homeless people being taken off the streets and placed in homes- against their will. She said they would scream all night. I also agree about what the safety net does to the individual. I remember the heat wave in France a few years back (cont).

[dsindc]

2) The country was hit with a terrible heat wave in August when most French go on vacation. The number of elderly who died was a scandal. It was horrific. The 'safety net' was at the beach, or abroad, or in the mountains. The average people felt no responsibility. So, there is lots of truth in your point. Still, I work in D.C. not far from the capital itself in fact. There is nothing more sad then seeing so many handicapped, mentally ill etc. begging. There must be a middle way.

[differnet]

dsindc, Christ told us that the poor would always be with us. In the Middle Ages, life was seen as a veil of tears through which we must all pass. I wish I had more tools to do more, but then I worry if I had moe would it corrupt me. This is the eternal struggle for the thinking Christian; how do I live my faith in the world without becoming of the world. No system will solve the problem. To save the world, we must first change the hearts of men and, once again, we are back to the sheep.

[dsindc]

Well said. Thanks for the exchange.

[differnet]

Thank you too. Peace to you my friend.

[differnet]

But I find great beauty in the struggle to understand what God wants from me. I do not want perfection in myself or my fellow Christians. I am also reminded that in Galatians that St. Paul warned us to not try to jockey for position as to who is closer to God. We all have gifts and duties. We may be the hand and another the foot, but we are all of the body.

[differnet]

And that is the dysfunction. As for EU countries having less dysfunction, have you lived there? I have. And I saw prejudice, pride, hatred, intolerence, violence and many other trials. The US simply has a market of ideals that is far more vocal and vociferous than Europe.

[SpiritFist]

Differ, i totally agree, many many people do many great things in the name of religion, there is no doubt. But there is surely a profound fundamental difference why the FBI watches closely many different religious institutions and not the Boy Scouts or Grandmas bakery. It is those differences that we and hopefully everyone should not ignore. Hardly any of which is ever brought up and dealt with in Churchs or most other religious organizations

[differnet]

Great power and wealth can be either a force for good or evil - wether it be in a church, organization or even a denomination. That is why we were warned to be ever vigilant. I have not argued that churches are better or worse. However, to condemn all religion is as much a folly as to praise all religion. I am reminded of Madison's words concerning the writing of the Constitution; "We have created a system that can be run by devils, because if man were angels we would need no government."

[differnet]

I meant to say... "whether it be in a church, organization or government....."

[differnet]

In short, because we are human we cannot create a single organization or group that is without folly, but we can always correct ourselves and our excesses. We do so with the grace of God and the gift of intelligence he gave us.

[coolbrian15]

Be like me enjoy regligion as a hobby along side with your personal belifs in god but never mix them together or you will have a problem

[AtheistdotEDU]

I watch him because he seems like a genuinely nice guy.

Full of it, but a nice guy. :)

[SpiritFist]

He seems like a nice guy. Unfortunately he doesnt even scratch the surface of why people are put off by organize religion. From my view religion divides the Human spirit. Building institutions and specific dogma that segregate (directly or indirectly) those who do not share the same belief ,lifestyle, perspectives, truths etc.

[differnet]

Spirit, there are literally hundreds of denominations and faiths. I think you are confusing what you hear in the media with all denominations. We are reading from the recent General Convention in my congregation. This past week, we read that was Christians we are called to share a dialouge with other denominations and faiths to create mutual respect and share good works and not to convert. Again, most people have no idea of the numerous traditions available to them.

[SpiritFist]

He claims "if you take out the institutional religious part of the spirituality"..... My view and many nonreligious people is that these are the very things that corrupt spirituality. Religions and Institutions are BUILT AROUND spirituality, by no means

(do we believe) that these things are contained in the human spirit or spiritual enlightenment and/or cultivation. I think this is a fundamental reason why so many seek out eastern traditions such as Buddhism, Taoism etc.

[SpiritFist]

differnet syas: Again, most people have no idea of the numerous traditions available to them. Me; Thats great to hear Diff, so will you be reading from Buddhist and Hindu texts as viable paths to cultivating the spirit? The Jainist and Hopee belief system? From viewing the father on this video, my first inclniation is to assume that he seems like a sincerely good person, however i do not think he is sufficiently aware of the pitfalls of organized religions and why people are turnd of to them.

[differnet]

Actually SpiritFist, I have read from the Mahabharata and the Koran. I have also read the writings of Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr and the leaders of Ba' hai, to name a few. You seem to feel that anyone who is a Christian must reject all the other ways that God has revealed himself in the world (and continues to reveal himself or herself). What makes me a Christian is not that I think any of those other paths are wrong, it is I believe that Jesus was the son of God.

[decay789]

yo, i think fellowship is great and all. but Jesus didnt fellowship much.

but then again were nowhere near Jesus so help is good. as far as reciting hyms n stuff. rather use my own words.

k cool as long as u dont get caught up in rules. u see the right out of "religion" though. ur cool pops.

[carlasue88]

very nice video, I'm Catholic but I REALLY enjoyed it. Peace of Christ +

[HypnoticEye454]

A common phrase of fundies and evangelicals is " I dont have a religion, I have a personal relationship with Jesus". Now if these people were familiar with the Bible, church fathers and reformers, they would find that the word "religion" is a POSITIVE word most of the time; but fundies and evang. are for the greater part are very anti-intellectual and would not understand.

[carlasue88]

nice observation

[decay789]

well actually Jesus was always prosecuted by the pharasees.

and the pharasees where so caught up on religion well they prosecuted Jesus. i guess just dont follow religion know what it is. this guy has a good point though cuz fellowship is good

well i guess this says it better.

"do not be conformed to this world but transformed by the constant renewal of your mind"

this can even be taken in this case. u know dealing with religion.

[Magnulus76]

The implication of that phrase seems to be you can't be both religious and spiritual. Going to church is a good way to be challenged by new things. If you are spiritual on your own, you'll just tend to be exposed to whatever you personally feel is good, you won't really grow. There is an element of "ego" involved sometimes for some people.

[decay789]

well ppl say

law blesses u if u follow it

god blesses u

and you turn to follow him.

and yeah u would grow. because ull seek it. bein religious means following tradition and haveing it as a MUST to go to church ever sunday. and CLAIMING that if you dont you just broke part of your religion. see what i mean.

and even the devil can make you feel good even during prayer. might feel like the real thing. gotta seek

but yes goin to church u are taught. u know other minds.

[davidus3]

As I have independently looked at the world I am very grateful for the experience. I would not give up my personal growth and wonder for dogma and "past experience."

Don't get me wrong, history is great, but not when it comes to faith (or lack thereof).

[metta108]

i often hear that from people "i'm spiritual but not religious"; i respect everyone's individual spiritual paths however it may differ from my own, but i get tired of hearing that line as if they are saying that to be 'spiritual' means something wiser or more evolved and being 'religious' is somehow something for people who can't think for themselves or closed-minded.

religion means "to link". it is about community and our connection to others, either in a historical lineage we share in common.

[elph98]

you are mistaken. to be religious means to be "close minded." it literally means having a devotion to a higher power. look it up. to be spiritual just means to think about spirits and such matters. seriously.

[metta108]

hey elph....thanks for the 'correction'From Wikipedia: The word religion derives from the Latin word religare, meaning "to join, or link" and classically understood to mean the linking of human and divine.

Webster's Ninth Collegiate lists its primary definition of religion this way:

1 a (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural

(i don't see anything about being "closed minded" (even in being 'religious')

[davidus3]

And I often hear people insinuate that religion is right because a lot of people do it and that spirituality is something for lunatics and eccentric people.

I think that most spiritual people don't believe in a deity, but are awestruck by nature, pattern, and intellectual wonders. This separates distinctly from religion and faith.

Also, there are many people who are otherwise religious who reject dogma and organized institutions. Many reject divine human authorities like the pope.

[autumnrayne9]

RE: "you may find the Unitarians interesting. They believe in getting their inspiration from multiple sources including Science, History, Philosophy etc."

Yes, but the problem with the UUs is this - they really have completely thrown out the baby with the bathwater. Sacraments are nonexistent even in the most symbolic way. There's almost literally no mystery, no enticement, no seeing the world in wonder. Hard to explain.

[autumnrayne9]

I know this because I have been part of a UU church, and I have to say that the water found at that well is not the same kind of water Jesus offered the woman at the other well...

:wink:

[setustraight]

"Without religon, spirituality is starting out from square 1, without learning from the past."

That's the point, and there would be no past. Spritaulity is about being free and independent of scars and restrictions. It means creating somthing for yourself, not having it be spoon fed to you by the past.

[FatherMatthew]

You are suggesting that the past can only provide baby food (spoon fed) but I am suggesting that an "independent" spirituality without the development of centuries of human trial and error will more often than not be baby food. There is great value to community faith.

[setustraight]

You don't know what that means. The spoon analogy has nothing to do with baby food, it means, in this case, that information and experience is handed to you, cheap and biased, by a greater influence. It has more to do with the action of spoon feeding that with what. Spirituality is an extremely personal thing, and most people now will choose not to share it to any kind of community.

[FatherMatthew]

Sorry for my misunderstanding. But we are less individuals, and more inter-dividuals, radically co-dependent, and co-evolutionary, both as people and including the spirituality we bear. Might as well engage in this reality through a community that provides feedback, fortification, and growth, rather than pretend that we are autonomous. I'm basically saying sharing, rather than isolation, is ideal.

[rjky1986]

@FatherMatthew

I agree.

[autumnrayne9]

Seems to me that kind of spirituality - the "free and independent" thing - is also prone to constantly reinventing the wheel and not enabling oneself to mark one's spiritual progress.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

There's hard evidence proving Bible is accurate like video "Revealing God's Treasure - Red Sea Crossing" here on You Tube, but knowledge of this data is required to know, by this data, God exists.

The only thing known at all times in life is yourself. This data on yourself can only drive you to the correct religion if your thinking of this knowledge is accurate & that being Psalms 51:17 as any works based religion takes initial data & disregards it.

SELAH - talk with God

SHALOM - peace

[Donkey655321]

Having never heard of him before I did a quick search on Meister Eckhart. I read some quote attributed to him (in wiki under Works and doctrines) and I can draw an interpretation from his words with which I mostly agree, and I do consider it an important message.

He apparently said "a man should be empty of self and all things" which sounds very Taoist in my minds ears, and it got me thinking. What consistencies can we find among the prophets of different religions?

I can only think of one.

[FatherMatthew]

Seriously: read "Cloud of Unknowing" an ancient English Christian mystic text. It should be online somewhere, having been public domain for centuries I hope.

[Donkey655321]

Thanks for the tip. From the intro I think I'll appreciate it.

[Donkey655321]

"spirituality is always starting out from square one, never learning from the past"

This, I would argue as one of the main reasons I choose to "walk my own spiritual path". Of all the truly deep spiritual experiences I have had, I can communicate nothing accurately. So I assume that those who speak of "god" either lie to me, or deceive themselves.

The church gave me nothing in childhood, I only began to develop my own spirituality after rejecting the messages I got from the church.

[FatherMatthew]

Sorry the church gave you nothing to speak of. I don't think accuracy is required in God speak (that is an unfortunate result of the wars of Reformation) and you can speak of God without assuming that you have to have it exactly right, that your words colonize God or claim God, when actually the words of God should reflect your having been known by God rather than you knowing God as God truly is. There are great Christian mystics that have grappled with this before. Meister Eckhart for one.

[Donkey655321]

"you can speak of God without assuming that you have to have it exactly right"

Indeed, we so often mistake communication for information.

This quote touches on why I often feel disturbed by organized religion. Every religion I can think of right now asserts something I consider unknowable.

When it comes to spirituality I want to speak with others of methods, not results.

Discussing the experiences of other people long since departed seems to me like a drawn out game of Chinese whispers.

[FatherMatthew]

I know about the game of "telephone" and the fear that that is all faith is. And the contention that God is unknowable is true. But there is a long lineage of spiritual practices, prayers, rules of life, worship, liturgy, vocabulary, doctrines, community life, etc. that serve as tools to at least taking steps closer to God. But don't make the tools idols. A tricky balance, but I find it worth engaging in. an organized faith community, at best, helps with navigation. Learning is possible.

[Donkey655321]

I greatly appreciate reading these words coming from you.

Though I feel must say the most of my experiences of (insert abstract term here) have come in solitude whilst sitting still, breathing slowly, and fixing my internal monologue to a simple phrase.

I can also recognize the need for assistance when you wonder away "normal" experience, if for nothing else than your own and others safety.

[CommieThreat]

Father Matthew, what do you think of this? At my parish, I dress nice to go to the eucharist, but alot of people criticize it and say I should dress more casual. I am just used to dressing nice and I feel I should do this to come to the rail.

[FatherMatthew]

I was raised to wear a coat and tie to come to church. Now I am a bit more dressy, but if I weren't a priest I'd still be wearing nicer clothes to church. This is my custom, and it has faith meaning for me. People who complain about what you wear shouldn't be, especially at the Eucharist. The holy challenge: no matter what you choose to wear, being comfortable to those who come to God alongside you dressing differently. This could be an effect of class anxiety too (commie threat understands).

[CommieThreat]

Thanks, that helps. I don't mind the way that everyone else dresses, no.

You know, my parish is called the Good Shepherd as well--I just got elected to the vestry! =D

[CommieThreat]

Referring to your home parish

[reyknow]

study history and you will learn the truth that...

98% OF CHRISTIAN/CATHOLIC TRADITION COMES FROM PAGAN RITUALS!

even jesus christ is a copy of other deities like krishna and mithra and horus and etc.

Im all for doing good to thy neighbor, but religion is not the way to go. religion is why this world is in such a bad shape.

[autumnrayne9]

RE: "98% OF CHRISTIAN/CATHOLIC TRADITION COMES FROM PAGAN RITUALS!"

Tell them something they don't already know. This is not news.

[FatherMatthew]

"Pagan" is a big term. You are essentially saying that the Catholic tradition had outside influences. These influences are well known and part of any religion that is a porous system. I think the scandal would be if the catholic tradition were without influences, because then it wouldn't be adapting and responding, but calcified and essentially dead.

[splashpont]

Not all Christians think homosexuality is an abomination. (Check out the Episcopal Church - a people that strives for justice and peace among all people, and to respect the dignity of every human being.)

[nuclearfrog11]

Amen

[splashpont]

Science and relgion are two sides of the same coin. Both seek to explain the world we live in: one through theory and fact, the other through faith-filled story.

I can know that the world is a sphere, and also believe that "God is in the firmament of the heavens" (wherever that is).

[treyasudx]

And the peace be with you.

[AmericanWayne]

James talks about true religion being helping orphans and widows. Father Matthew, what do you think of denominations that don't have "thousands of years of 'traditional' worship" and, in fact, have more of a modern worship service and not much to do with liturgy?

[IcemanSK]

Thanks for this Fr. Matthew. Great thoughts!

[CharlesLaura]

This is a fantastic video. Best of the lot if you ask me. Makes the case for religious community simply and with style. I just posted it on my church's facebook page.

Fr. Matthew, you're a real blessing to the church. Thanks and may God bless you in your YouTube ministry!

[UWGTrebleClef]

... so I think it's important for people to really ask themselves what their authority really is, whether it's the Bible, their parents, their priest, their college professor or whatever. I think people who say that they are "spiritual, but not religious" are trying to say that they believe in a divine presence and a divine plan, but that doesn't mean for a second that they blindly trust whatever this or that religious man tells them about that Divinity.

[FatherMatthew]

agreed.

[FatherMatthew]

Not all Christians eat shrimp and lobsters.

[ddelray]

LOL !! I think the point being made is that they don't have any religious objections to doing so. One might refer to Peter's vision in Acts 10: 11-16, in which a voice (presumably God, from heaven) essentially tells Peter to disregard traditional dietary laws.

[gskolbjorn]

Very good video, Father. I always enjoy them.

[gskolbjorn]

UWG, I think you are absolutely right about people throwing the work on the leaders. I think you find that in every religious tradition. AS to your statement that "it can't be objectively shown that that religion is more true than any other." TO some degree you are right, but there is, in philosophy, the idea that that which is true will correspond with the way the world is (i.e. science and reason).

[UWGTrebleClef]

Thanks for the response, gskolbjorn!

Would you say that there is a religion that is always in harmony with science and reason? Christians has had its conflicts with science. I'm specifically thinking of the way Galileo was persecuted for teaching that the Earth revolved around the Sun, and the way more modern scientists have been persecuted for teaching the theory of Evolution. And many religions appeal to "divinely inspired" books for their truth, and that's another topic altogether.

[gskolbjorn]

I think all religions, as they are managed and run by men (and women), have troubles being in harmony with science. Certainly, Christianity does. I think it's sort of like a dance that people of faith must participate in with the scientists. We need to constantly keep each other in check, be it with morality or reality.

[BoomSelekta]

But what is "science"? Science is the way that human beings perceive the world. What makes us think that our perception of so-called "reality" is accurate? For instance, science claims to know how long the earth has been in existence...billions of years, right? Um, how in the heck can we possibly know that?

BTW, I am not religious, spiritual, or atheist, nor am I a scientist. I'm just an observer here.

[gskolbjorn]

That is very true. However, because there is a level of faith required even in science does not mean we must reject its statements. Science has a great deal of credibility because it is based off of observation of the world around us. TO some degree (more so in theoretical sciences) there is more faith required and a greater chance of error, but there is more to science than educated guessing.

[cavejourney]

UWG - you may find the Unitarians interesting. They believe in getting their inspiration from multiple sources including Science, History, Philosophy etc. They encourage questioning and debate.

[splashpont]

2,000 year old Christianity never took the Bible literally. (Yes, men in authority were "the powers that be.") In recent history, new denominations have replaced authoritative men with a book--using it in a way that was never intended by the men who collected those books together in the first place.

[autumnrayne9]

"2,000 year old Christianity never took the Bible literally."

Indeed, because 2000  years ago there wasn't a Bible to take literally. That didn't come along until...what, the 4th century AD?

[FatherMatthew]

Faith, at its best, should correspond with the way the world is, too. But then you just can't take cursory interpretations, you have to engage.  Tough stuff.

[UWGTrebleClef]

I think sometimes people just want to think for themselves, instead of having other people (i.e. religious leaders, usually men) do the thinking for them. Sometimes religious doctrine can be good, but most of the time it is used to control people's minds. It can often make people closed-minded, and it can kill the genuine search for truth because people settle for what someone else says is the truth. People reject organized religion when they learn to think more independently.

[FatherMatthew]

The trick is to teach my faith without trying to control anyone, except through persuasion (and non-manipulative persuasion at that!). My sense is that "independent thinking" is a impossible, given the truth that we depend on people to be who we are. So "what do you depend on?" is the question.

[UWGTrebleClef]

I think that's a very good point. I personally used to be a Christian, and I had to ask myself that question, "What is my authority?", and I eventually had to decide that the Bible couldn't be my authority, because I believe there are clear contradictions in it, and there are some things in it I just don't agree with, and I couldn't find any real, objective, rational reason for believing that the Bible is any more divinely inspired than the Koran, the Tao Te Ching or any other religious text.

[UWGTrebleClef]

Hi Father Matthew! I really like your videos, but I don't think you addressed any of the problems people have with organized religion. For example, what's the use in following a particular tradition if that tradition is wrong? How do you decide among the thousands of traditions and religions that exist? What's the use of following a religion if it can't be objectively shown that that religion is more true than any other?

[FatherMatthew]

Well, I don't go into the particular religions in this video, but the premise is that if you think there is something to spirituality, community is better than on your own, and spiritual community=religion. As to how to pick? Well, maybe I'll do that question for another video.

[UWGTrebleClef]

Okay, that'll be great. I look forward to that video!

[AnHonestChristian]

That is a video I'm looking forward to. :)

[NutCheese]

No copyrighted music this time?! ;) Next thing you know you'll be a YouTube partner!

[FatherMatthew]

That's the plan...

[floridaredhead]

Father, you are made of win.

[whipd]

Good stuff! I put it on on my church's website

[MikeSarno]

Another great vid, Father Matthew! Thanks!

[foititis]

Have a great Advent!

[FatherMatthew]

You too!

[MattSixteen26]

God bless you, Father.

[JEFFtheATHEIST]

I can't help but like this guy!

[documentLT]

Satire?

[crifasi50]

Yay!! The flamingo made it in your video!! It was a religious moment for me...

[JPerkinsProductions]

Great job! The audio is improving too.

[FatherMatthew]

Thanks for noticing! I just began using a Sennheiser wireless system. Lovin' it!

[StuartGalore]

You always do such a good job on these. Not only are they well done technically, the content is interesting as well.