Acoustic Guitar Intonation / Pitch Fix

[bailey221b]

You have the thickness of the saddle to correct the intonation. You can lengthen or shorten the saddle side of the string by filing a peak on either side of the saddle or somewhere in between. If this doesn’t work then return the guitar to the store. If necessary I would create a thin piece like the one you added that goes across the entire nut. Notch it under all other strings so it only touched the bottom of the string that needs shortening. This will give the nut a nicer look.

[787Bisurdaddy]

This is the same idea as the Earvana compensated tuning nut. Obviously the people saying that this doesn't work don't know what they're talking about. I'm thinking you would want to compensate the bridge as well, though.

[rowbocaster]

It is a good idea but I noticed, after reading one of the comments that the other frets are out of tune. I decided to still use it but not across the entire nut like I originally did. It works great for guitars that have the sharp intonation on the D note on the 3rd fret of the second string. If it's tweaked correctly it works. I can't explain the increase in volume of the under saddle pickup, maybe more tension on the strings. Super glue as opposed to something more permanent is a must.

[gitfixer]

Thanks. It does work and in spite of all the negative comments. I learned

this method from a 40 year veteran luthier, who I've seen preform this

procedure on some vary famous players instruments.

[ncboy65]

Very good video. You seem like a good dude. Thank you.

[73849309378]

Just get an Earvana adjustable nut.

[1pixle]

This does not fix the intonation. it infact would make it worse by screwing up the spacing for all the frets aside from the 12th. guys, don't get this done to your guitar no matter how cheap it is, it's not worth it. as for you mr. jnjoblon, do some research because I think you are the one who is just plain ignorant.

[TheArizonaMark]

@1pixle yeah...you know more

[infectionsman]

@1pixle look up "earvana" nut on google, it is a nut that uses this theory to provide even better intonation than you can get with a normal nut. It even comes stock on many electric 2011 ESP guitars. I have played one and can tell you this works.

[1pixle]

@infectionsman That is an interesting nut, I would love to try one, but this is a different concept than what gitfixer is doing here in this video. the nut looks like it starts further back to accomadate where the string really starts to vibrate, is that correct? gitfixer actually ruined the intonation for the E string all the way up the neck, to fix the octave. thanks though for telling my about the earvana nut, I will deffinatly have to research it some more.

[infectionsman]

@1pixle Here, the low G base note was the problem. Yes he did shorten the interval between the open low E and the first fret, and that could be bad for some notes down the neck. I cant tell from the video really, but it seems to play in tune. The main focus here was to make the job easy and do it without re-routing and moving the whole bridge of the guitar. Think about this: If you compare an earvana to a standard, every standard nut is going to be false for the G but most ppl dont notice / care

[ash666000]

@infectionsman i did not read your comment

[infectionsman]

@ash666000 um, what?

[Dapaker]

Thank you, your video is very helpful.

[amezcuaist]

Nut intonation and bridge intonation can both need fixing. These jobs are really succesful and satisfying. The exact changes can vary with strings used etc. Read as much as you can and then get it done or do it yourself. The video here shows a simple change. The method is quick and reliable if you use bone. Use a caliper and magnifying glass.as well . It really works and the guitar sounds better all round.

[IvicaGuitar]

thanks A LOT !!!

[griffinmpable]

HE ADDED TO THE GUITAR. HE DID NOT TAKE AWAY the string is therefore shorter than it was before. instead of the string bending directly at the same place at the nut as all the others, it now begins its bend slightly before the others. this WILL work and it wont screw up your other frets. the concept of where the note itself lies inside the fret can be applied here. he is shifting the true note to a "higher" position in the fret here to compensate for it being flat before alterations

[wolfymcse]

yeah, this is a bad idea, should be done at the saddle. this will only fix the intonation when open, it won't alter it when fretted. bad idea, should have shaved the inside of the saddle a tad to extend the distance from nut to saddle.

[OpakeArawra2]

i...i have no...i have no idea what's going on with that...that tuner...

[dogdirt2000]

@OpakeArawra2 I'm guessing what he's seeing and what we see are a bit different, because of the the frame rate of this video affecting how we see the strobe of the tuner

[telecasterbear]

Handsome...woof.

[grafleinsdorf]

This messes up all the other frets! Okay now the open string and the 12th fret are clean, but the distance between the nut and the first fret is changed.

I would not do it.

[bluegrasslives60]

Great idea !!!

[nephilymbass1]

pretty good idea. A lot of high dollar modern basses are built with a compensating nut so I'm pretty sure it would do the trick

[bvc310]

Really? Have you tried compensating the saddle through shaping? This is basically a hack job. It definitely works, but its not what a pro would do. Im a tech and I using your mentality, Its better to install that tiny bone fragment in the saddle. much better tone, and more permanent. Have fun you joke.

[ElderlyIron]

@bvc310 Your comment is a hack job. You didn't listen to what was said, nor bother to read the stated purpose. I'm sure your services are in great demand. There are plenty of nitwits out there that can't bother to think or do things for themselves. Since you didn't catch it, doing it yourself was the intent of the tutorial.

[MrBenIPresume]

that's a really thick body, it's like 10 inches deep

[darren0512341]

I really think this is truely a manufacture problem.

for customers like us working our ass off for the money, we really shouldn't have a headache by putting up with these basic problems that most guitars are having these day.

[josequiles7]

really helpful!! thanks!! and blessings my friend

[UWMike017]

I have a similar problem. My high e string is intonating flat at every fret past the 3rd and it gets progressively worse as I move up the neck. This means the distance between the 12th fret and the saddle is too long, correct? In which case is there a similar method I can use to compensate without messing with the other strings?

[Elpescador83]

@UWMike017 I have this problem as well and I think your correct. Im guessing that you would then add a bone piece in front of the high E on the saddle, thereby shortening the distance from the saddle to the 12th? The thickness of the bone piece needed equaling (distance from 12th to saddle) -(distance from nut to 12th)

[ukandoittowithkandoo]

Where to start with my seagul, the space further up the neck is wider than at the 1st, playing chords at the 1st ain't sounding like it did b4 i got it. I had a nut replaced which was just super glued and cost me £25 quid and the nut does't look flush. I.ve messed about with diffrent guage strings which i just found out ddoing this needs a guitar setup. I am stickig 11s guage i can strum and bend etc. Shall i also file my saddle to bring the higher fretted strings closer too the fret board ?????

[jcline6542]

Why not a compensated saddle?

[Elpescador83]

@jcline6542 My guess is because the distance between the 12th and saddle is to short. if you compensated the saddle you would magnify the intonation problem in this particular scenario. Compensating the nut shortens the distance between the nut and 12th equaling it to the distance between the 12th and saddle.

[jcline6542]

@Elpescador83 hmmm i'll have to think about this a little more..

[thinlinechris]

um, isnt the easier less intrusive way to file on the in or outside of the saddle to lengthen or shorten and thus adjust the intonation? I have never seen this method

[cantarooots]

This will work if you attach the small piece of bone to the other end!

[GameLevelEditor]

Hi I just picked up a 1965 gibson j50 that had top refinish cause of top crack repair. the bridge was changed to the drop in style . The repair that was not done properly, But Its got alot of potential for tone. The neck "zero relief now" body and sides perfect as well as nice jumbo frets. I have to add tad relief. Then machining bridge down to expose slim saddle cause actions too high. Need to countersink peg holes for string pitch. Presently the "fretted note" on E is sharp I have to fix it.

[DrGreenThumbs1]

How does that tuner work? i've never seen on of those before.`

[PennylandMusic]

Naive wishful thinking by this guy I'm afraid. This fixes intonation for open string vs 12th fret. But try playing using a capo on the third fret. For correct intonation, the capo'd "open" string (3rd fret note) and the 15th fret should be an octave apart. With his miracle fix, there is no difference between hisbefore and after. Another example of a little learning being a dangerous thing. Glad I don't hve to take my guitar to this guy!!!

[crabspasm]

This mod WILL NOT solve an intonation problem caused by an incorrectly located saddle. All you are doing with this mod is changing the relationship between the open string and the first fret. If your intonation is sharp, you HAVE to move the point at which the string touches the saddle backwards. Think about this: if you fret the 5th fret you get a certain note, now if you capo at the first fret and play the 5th fret, you get the exact same note. All that changes is the pitch of the open string.

[OMGWUNSIU]

I have a low end Martin that I made a bone saddle for using .012-.054 Martin strings and it played MUCH better than stock.I switched to .011-.052 Martin strings and although it was easier to play the intonation wasn't right.I have made a new nut from ivory and still can't get the intonation right. After much study I think this fix will work.It makes PERFECT sense. Most posters here don't understand the concepts involved at all! A pretty guitar that won't play in tune is useless.I like this fix!

[chinoramas1]

tnx 4 the info

[chinoramas1]

tnx 4 the info

[PennylandMusic]

@chinoramas1 No it won't. read some of the later comments.

[chinoramas1]

tnx.. . it will help a lot

[libertyfalls]

$400 worth of work on a $150 alvarez regent. way to go.

[kaptenmax]

@guitarbutt this guy aint a professional lol, doubt hes a real luthier

[MaryChristmass]

next time post the whole video. I'm not visiting your site, I'll just give you a thumbs down and move to the next vid.

Cheers

[ZebraJones01]

Fuck that put the whole video on here. Also what if my intonation is flat?

[stratdelux09]

If I sent my $3000 Martin in , and it came back with that sub-nut glued on....I'd have a FIT! Interesting repair for a beater/piece of junk.

[BilloT5]

Very innovative!! Thanks for the tip!!

Billo

[zedrein18]

Um, I wouldn't feel really comfortable with super gluing a piece of bone onto the neck of my Martin guitar...does anyone have a link that details the intonation of an acoustic guitar in the more traditional method? Thanks for the video anyway!

[lostcowhand]

@zedrein18

he just stated that the traditional/proper method is completely relocating the saddle, which is only done if the intonation is Way off. this method is done if only a small adjustment is needed.

[zedrein18]

I agree.

[efbeckley]

cool video, thanks for the advice!

5/5!

[thecastleisatomb]

fast forward to two minutes. the first part is worthless

[Lifesblood1]

i am having the same problem, but my e string is to flat, any idea what to do?

[stripes5150]

fuck this....Get a brand new full-length saddle...it takes time but just fine file the top of the saddle back or forward for each string until it's intonated...no fucking around!

[seasonedtoker]

these days dremels are really cheap and so are the saddles. you can just save some times by machine grinding it first and the rest by hand to perfection it. takes 20 minutes with strings retuned and everything back in it's place

[stripes5150]

Exactly bro....What I was kinda getting at....Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

[musiccalgary]

This will not work...

[jnjoblon]

Lol lots of dumb comments here.

This works.... period.

Anyone that says it "does not" is just plane ignorant.

The key word here is "alternative" method of adjusting the intonation. This is not something you would want to do with a $2000+ guitar, but works great on that pos you bought for $50. Most people with an ounce of sense would not want to pay 3 times the amount they paid for the guitar itself to have the saddle re-set to adjust the intonation. 0_o

[PennylandMusic]

@jnjoblon No it does not work. REad my comments posted today 22 July 2010.

[noazarkle]

@jnjoblon Just finished my 4th guitar.Others were all spot- on,but this is quarter tone flat at 12th on all strings.My Ibex fret-rule shows the compensated scale to be correctly set,&harmonic is directly over the 12th.Action is set low(.060 at 12th) and fingerboard relief is.004 at 6th.Gona try this fix using cheap plastic nut before recutting saddle slot-will try it on saddle also.As all strings will need subsequent retuning I think it could work at all frets .Will post result.

[guitartec]

Which "plane" do you mean, jet, air, dimensional, or wood?

[cantarooots]

@jnjoblon doesnt work that way

[manhatin]

What this really shows is the value of a moveable bridge. I have an old (1954) Supro archtop that has a million miles on it. You can still get really nice intonation because the bridge is moveable.

[linuxguy2009]

Well even if we are all wrong and this works, I personally wouldn't mess with a glued bone peice. They actually make something called a shelf nut that has a portion that lays on top of the fretboard.

[DaVeMiDdLeToNe]

hack job... never gonna send my axe to this guy... quick easy fix = hack job!!!

My mentour george ferlinetto would puke... sorry if your insulted..

[GammonAndSpinach]

Sorry, misspoke above: it's not the shorter fret spacing that makes saddle compensation increase as you go up the neck, it's the shorter string length: the compensation becomes a greater and greater percentage of the vibrating string length between fret and saddle.

Anyway, both nut and saddle should really be compensated for best intonation. Try it and you'll never look back.

[bloozelover]

i tried explaing that to these dumbasses but i guess they never heard of buzz feinton

[GammonAndSpinach]

Nut compensation works because after compensating, you have to retune to the new shorter string length: you reduce the string tension a hair. This lower tension now applies equally at all frets, so you get equal compensation (again in cents) on all frets. Between the two effects, you can adjust the whole fretboard closer than the human ear can hear.

[GammonAndSpinach]

Nut compensation works differently from saddle compensation. To be really right, you need both. Because the amount you move the saddle is proportionately a greater percentage of the shorter fret spacing as you go up the neck, it gives you greater compensation (in cents) on the higher frets. So you almost inevitably wind up with slightly too little compensation on the lower frets, and too much on the higher.

To be continued . . . .

[jazu40]

What about distance btw nut and first fret after this procedure. Isn't too short now? I think, now distance btw all frets are wrong for this particular string.

[linuxguy2009]

If your playing the first fret, the string between the nut and fret dont vibrate so it makes no difference to any fretted notes at all.

[3DEC3]

But your tuning it with the new string length, so it would change the fretted notes too.

[linuxguy2009]

Even so, the even temperament tuning is thrown right out the window with this I would think for that string. You would have 5 strings tuned to equal temperament and then have the 6th string thats sharper than they would be than equal temperament.

[theMonk1]

This doesn't really make any sense. This would only affect the intonation when the low E string is being played open. Once you fret the E string the nut extension is taken out of play. So the open G chord would not be affected by this fix. Better to work on the saddle then all frets would be affected.

[old6stringer]

Since it changes the entire length of the string, therefore the tuning of the string, the string is now (in effect) tuned lower than before, so the previously offending "sharp" notes are now in tune (or at least closer to being in tune) with the open string. Think of it this way: you're tuning the string at the 12th fret, then changing the position of the nut to make it in tune in the open position. Check out the Buzz Feiten or the Earvana systems

[linuxguy2009]

The frets are stationary to the bridge saddle peice. So you change nothing by doing this. This will only effect the tuning of the open string.

[3DEC3]

The frets are stationary when you move the saddle too. This would work.

[1Doz]

You could accomplish basically the same thing with less work by just detuning the string slightly. In fact, that's exactly what this mod does. It tricks you into detuning the E string by making it sound sharp in the open position. With the string detuned, it no longer plays sharp when fretted. In fact, it will probably play flat in the upper frets of the E string now, but since you rarely play those notes it might be OK.

[Demoras]

@1Doz:

Oh my god. The sheer stupidity in your comment just completely blew my mind. Detuning the string has the same effect as shortening the string length? *facepalm*

You've just proven to the world that you know nothing about guitars.

[1Doz]

@Demoras

You don't know what you're talking about.

This mod works *precisely* because it causes you to detune the E string. It does this by making the open E note play sharp. You must then detune the E string to make the E note play in tune. This detuning makes the fretted notes play flatter, which corrects their previous sharpness.

Simply detuning the string would have the exact same effect. All this mod adds is the nut extension which keeps the E note from being flat when you detune.

[Demoras]

@1Doz:

No, it doesn't. This is a very simple concept that you just don't understand. Intonation doesn't work by simple tuning or detuning. It's a matter of string length and tension. Simply detuning does absolutely nothing to correct this problem. In fact, detuning causes the string to be out of tune with the other strings.

That's what correcting intonation is all about. So that all strings are in tune with each other. Detuning one string really only makes matters worse.

[1Doz]

@Demoras

Yes, intonation is a simple concept, but you don't understand it.

Yes, intonation is more than tuning or detuning. It's about aligning the harmonic series of the string with the frets. But detuning does do something to correct this problem, for the reasons I have given.

Yes, detuning makes the fretted notes flatter. That's why this mod works. The problem was that the fretted notes were sharp. Detuning flattens them, solving the problem, at least in the lower frets.

[1Doz]

@Demoras

The reason this mod works is that it causes you to detune the string. It does not actually fix the intonation, since the intonation can only be fixed at the saddle. Changes at the saddle affect all notes by changing the vibrating string length of all notes. But that little nub at the nut only changes the vibrating length of the open E. The length of all the other fretted notes is unaffected (you can see why, right?).

So the nub does not fundamentally fix the intonation problem.

[1Doz]

@Demoras

The nub does precisely two things:

1) It causes you to detune the E string, which flattens the offending sharp fretted notes.

2) It allows the open E note to play in tune (i.e. not be flat) despite the E string being detuned.

This allows notes and chords played around the open position to be in tune. However, the amount of detuning required increases as you move up the neck, meaning that at higher frets the problem remains.

So this mod is a really a workaround, not a true fix.

[1Doz]

@Demoras

The reason it's a workaround rather than a true fix is that it DOESN'T solve the true problem, which is the intonation. What it DOES do is counteract the effects of the faulty intonation, at least in the lower positions. Since acoustic guitar is mostly played in those positions, it does have value. But it shouldn't be seen as a true solution to the basic intonation problem, which can only be fixed at the bridge end.

[Demoras]

@1Doz:

You know, I've been rethinking this all. I think we both actually Do understand intonation. But I forgot to take into account the fret positions, which are messed up if you move the nut, which is basically what this workaround does. While effectively changing the string length and pitch, it doesn't really fix intonation. Like you said, it counteracts the effects of faulty intonation in lower positions.

You'll have to excuse my previous hostile comments. Probably morning grogginess :)

[1Doz]

@Demoras

That's very kind of you to admit that I understand how intonation works, but I think you are still confused.

Moving the nut has zero effect on the fret positions. Nor does it affect the vibrating string length in the fretted positions. These are determined only by the position of the frets and the bridge. The nut changes neither of these.

All the nut extension does is change the pitch of one note -- the open E. And the effect is you are forced to detune the string.

That's it.

[Demoras]

It has no effect? Hmm.. But isn't the string length the length from the saddle to the nut? If you put a piece in front of the nut, don't you 'sort of' move the nut a bit forward?

And I mean.. The frets stay the same, of course.. But the distance from the nut to the frets is changed. Doesn't this affect the pitch that's produced, if you play a fretted note?

[1Doz]

@Demoras

Nope, all that matters is the *vibrating* string length. The string behind the fretted note is totally irrelevant. It could be thirty miles long or 3mm long and it wouldn't matter. To say that it affects the pitch is like saying you can change the pitch by fretting a note behind the note you are actually playing. That doesn't happen of course, and neither does it happen if you move the nut.

It's an easy misconception because to our minds the nut is somehow equal to the bridge.

[bloozelover]

i dont see why it wouldnt work you are still changeing the length of the string dosent matter if you do it at the nut or the bridge the effect is still the same

[linuxguy2009]

As soon as you fret any note the nut compensation is thrown out the window. The distance from any fret to the bridge saddle is exactly the same as before he "fixed" it. This "fix" will only change the open tuning of the string. No idea how this guy thinks an open G chord will sound different.

[Demoras]

No. The string length is affected, and that affects the whole string in every position, not just the open sound. This is because the string length is changed, and this has an effect on the whole string.

[Jnnskrkskl]

Thanks! This solved my problem, I can hear it!

[floydbannister]

clever as all get out. thanks.

[kammhron]

Thanks for the knowledge. Great video.

[inkey2]

QUESTION: would it do the same thing if you put a piece of bone (or plastic)on the bridge saddle instead...or....take a small flat file and file the saddle at an angle (on the low "E" spot) as to change the distance?

[linuxguy2009]

Yeah this is a more widely accepted repair method for acoustic intonation. You can buy a bridge saddle blank and use some files to get the right string take off points. Its probably a LOT of trial and error unless your a pro and know a good method for doing it without needing to go through a bunch of blanks to get there. If the guitar is built so bad as forcing you to glue odd peices onto it, its probably not worth bothering with IMO. Buy a decent guitar for starters.

[alexusdasia]

I wish all guitar makers would just use a thicker saddle, so that there's a lot more adjustment potential by reshaping it. This would allow the player to use different string types and gauges, mess with their neck relief, raise and lower the action - whatever tweaks their hearts desire, and still know they can get the intonation back just with a little filing.

[linuxguy2009]

Yep I agree and also I wonder why no one has made an acoustic with seperate adjustable saddle peices. hmm

[musiccalgary]

There are many...

[linuxguy2009]

...many what?

[guitartec]

You didn't mention if you had hand-compensated the bone saddle prior to adding the nut extension. That usually takes care of the problem, but if not, why not super glue the bone to the backside of the saddle? It would look less intrusive than the bone on the nut, and the break angle would even improve.

Just a thought.

[quinoacat]

Compensating at the nut shortens the scale of the string slightly which tends to have a more positively profound effect on tone depending on the scale in the first place, of course. That is one of the reasons players like Doyle Dykes prefer slightly shorter scale acoustics. The Earvana Compensated Tuning System is a further explanation of this as well. Earvana does not yet make a nut for my Fender 7 String so this video gives me ideas...I don't think the small amount of bone looks so bad.

[inkey2]

to guitartec: funny, thats exactly what I said. Possibly in this case the saddle was not high enough as to have room to super glue a piece of bone or plastic to it.

[GuitarScratchRemover]

Great idea...

[bizandarts]

Jim you make some sweet guitars. I going to try to sell my Taylor and a couple other guitars and buy one of yours.

[blacktiger612]

sweat tips. ill check out your websites.

[naoism]

thanks!

[wkbennion]

Great tip. I bet there are a lot of us who can benefit from this video. I'll have to check out your websites.

Thanks,

Karl

[capo420420]

Nice vid .. i need some guitars set up / repaired .. i was trying to guess what you were gonna do here.. and i was guessing something just like what you did .. but instead remove part of the bridge and make a tiny "backbridge" .. cuz it seemed that all the notes fretted would benifit from that adjustment. once you fret the note .. you bypass the adjustment .. right ? .. just guessing ..

Anyways .. stop by and check out my guitar tapping

Nice to meet you ..

Jeff Williams / guitarist