Drug War's Racist Roots? - Ethan Nadelmann

[apainfultruth]

As a "grandma" who has been "criminalized" I can tell you for a fact probation causes more harm abuse than good. I had a painful illness for over a decade. No doc would seem me as I had no insurance. Finally in bed and suicidal I ordered prescription pain meds online and got my life back. Until last Nov 2010 when a 20 man SWAT team broke my door down and took me away to jail. Mother, Wife of 34 years, author, grandmother with NO previous record... and now convicted felon. apainfultruth (dot com)

[drpeppa2357]

The war On drugs is a house of cards that cannot stand, we're fighting the symptoms, some of which are caused by our lack of education on these substances and nothing but flimsy myths of "reefer madness" and the like.

It's time to wake up and confront the issue on its own turf, without the same bullheaded ignorance that has propelled the last century.

[AnimeMangaLove]

This man is a real Hero. Do what you do best Ethan Nadelmann.

[Silvertrine]

The level of racism in drug enforcement is shocking, You know what Oxycontin is right? Synthetic heroin and synthetic morphine mixed with a few other synthetics. Yeah you're not junkies. Even England which is the birthplace of these racist ideas doesnt pursue a racist drug war like the US does anymore. Time to grow up and admit what you're doing.

[plainolamerican]

oh God, another jew screaming racism

get a new shtick

[jimbob6986]

Go fuck yourself!

[plainolamerican]

go fuck your dead mother really hard and like it, asshole

[JimLongo]

drug users can no longer say it wasn't their fault......I have an addiction.....let society, not me, pay the consequences of my choices.

Let drug users use drugs. If they commit a crime due to their habit, then they should be prosecuted for their crime, not the basis of it.

It's really not that hard, but the government does have a revenue consideration and plays on fears, which is why no responsible change to legislation regarding drugs will soon change.

Jim

[JimLongo]

It's truly sad that this is a cultural debate topic.

Decriminalize drug use and distribution. This means that the government, at all levels, has no say. Let the government perform thier proper function.

If a business chooses to enact a no drug policy, then so be it. That's the choice of the business. The government's role is to enforce the contract that the employ signed stating he/she would do no drugs.

It's that easy. It's no longer a morality issue, other than ....

[etzel33]

Drug control is big business. Prohibition is wrong. Legalize the shit and the drug lords go away. Prison should be for violent crimes. If you don't agree with me then fuck you.

[phdhbtdsmmm]

This is a very different side to yourself that you do not present on the growing Earth channel, Etzel.

Very revealing, and rather less reasonable than you pretend to appear on Neal's pages!

[etzel33]

lol... CAUGHT! I'm "in character" here PHD. I'm constantly arguing with these right-wing crazies and it really gets grueling at times. There's zero room for logical discussion and I find myself dropping to their level. It was a bad post I admit.

Now that I have some calm time to post here... I'm a Libertarian and I think that prohibition of peaceful behaviour is generally wrong.

And I'd rather not get into a flame war about it. So if you disagree... have a nice day :)

[Kfos650]

100% agree

[babypuncher22]

If you are a murderer you should be murdered. If you smoke cannabis.... i guess you're just content with life :) not drugged, just medicated against negative emotions such as anxiety and anger.

[KasparHauser4]

Ok so that is a history lesson. So what is it leading up to? A conclusion that we should make drug use legal? What would the benefits of that be??

[TheEvolver311]

it would nearly eradicate the majority of voilent gangs as the FBI estimates that they gain about 60-70% of their annual profit from marijuana alone. how bad do you think it would hurt these groups if they suddenly lost that much of their wealth?

[IIKruZerII]

Crime caused by prohibition is more dangerous than any drug.

[ConservativeAtheist]

Actually that's false do to the fact that other hard drugs are far more addictive and far more harmfull mentally and physically than Alcohol although I am not a big fan of Alcohol either.

Pot seems to be the least harmful.

[GuppyPal]

yeah, gotta watch out for those darkies!

It's amazing what so many people perceive "American" to be when in reality it can be just about anything.

[Andybaby]

He's right except for the last comment.

People have not woken up.

[ConservativeAtheist]

This guy is a Delusional Liberal Fool! Everything is about Race with him.

Pot should actually be legal and governmentally regulated and Taxed the way Alcohol is but the rest of the hard drugs are illegal for very good reasons. They destroy peoples lives and families and they cause the user to commit other crimes.

The use of them also hurts our already overburdened medical system.

[ConservativeAtheist]

Continued:

I wanted to touch on one other thing he said. He claimed that Whites thought that Blacks or other Minorities would bother White Women if allowed to use these hard Drugs.

Mexico has over double the U.S. Rape & Murder rate%!

In the year 2005 nearly 58,000 White Women were Raped by Black Men but in that same year only 16 Black Women were Raped by White Men.

Please challenge my stats!

[collisionsurfer]

What is the source for your stats?

[ConservativeAtheist]

FBI National Crime Stats. I can't post a site here it won't let me but I will send you the link if you like?

[collisionsurfer]

Please do.

[Andybaby]

They cause the user to commit other crimes BECAUSE they are illegal.

[ConservativeAtheist]

No they cause the User to commit other crimes because it makes people do things they normally would do. Another reason is that no matter how cheap you make the drugs an addicts need for the drugs will be more than they can afford especially after the addiction causes them to lose their job and of course who will take care of their kids or pay fir their rehab?

[IIKruZerII]

How will cause people to other crimes if it make people do things they normally would do? Just kidding. Look at alcohol prohibition and the drug war and how it correlates with crime. Sadly, the drug war has been proven to cause more crimes than the drugs can themselves...

[TheEvolver311]

lol, no go look at nations that actually have legalized drugs. they have far lower crime rates, and individuals don't lose their jobs because the substance isn't a validated reason for firing a individual.

the incredible violence of nearly all organized crime groups is directly funded by the black market created by the prohibition of narcotics.

so i would take it by your standard that allmost all medications for anxiety,pain,and depression should be outlawed as they all contain narcotics

[ConservativeAtheist]

Please name for me one country that has legalized drugs? It doesn't exist!

Before you say anything about Amsterdam let me educate you alittle. Only Pot is legal in Amsterdam and only in Pot Cafees although Pot smoking is sometimes ignored in Public it is illegal. All the other Drugs are illegal in Amsterdam!

People are so damn stupid and ignorant of the facts it makes me sick!

[TheEvolver311]

Netherlands

[TheEvolver311]

a i only care about pot be legalized, you can go to your doctor and get prescribed to you syntetic versions of cocaine or heroin that are actually stronger so lets not pretend that in america right now millions of coke and herion addicts are not functioning in society just fine.

i also don't think that it should be the burden of the tax payer to fund treatment, its a individuals responsiblity to self assess and say i should cut back, etc.. if they end up losing controll then thats life.

[ConservativeAtheist]

I don't know of any illnesses that are medicated with coke or herion and I know that Doctors can't just write prescriptions for whatever they want whenever they want although things like prescription pain killers are handed out like candy.

I agree with you on Pot although the Netherlands has not legalized drugs and I don't know where people get that idea from I guess it's another one of those Urban Legends...?

[TheEvolver311]

codine is derived from cocaine, oxycotines active pain killer is derived from opium(aka herion). almost every single antidepresent,pain killer, anxiety med has some form of either cocaine or heroin in them. and the synthetic versions are way stronger.

they didn't legalize drugs they decriminalized them you can only be arrested for selling not using/possession.

[TheEvolver311]

have you ever heard of a breaker? people who go and do things like smash their hand with a hammer to get about 3 months worth of pain killers from the doc. its very common, my wife works in the medical feild, her best friend(who she works with) job is to evalutate weither a individaul is a "seeker" a person who goes to the doctor with the goal of obtaining narcotic med's. the numbers she tells me on esstimated addicts to prescriptions drugs in the US is somewhere in the multi-milliions.

[TheEvolver311]

its a insane notion to think that you can stop humans from doing things they have done since the beginning of recorded history. its insane to say a individual deserves to be put in prison at the tax payers expence for choosing to use a substance. 55k per person per year in food cost alone to inprison a individual for possession of pot, not worth the tax dollars.

making it illegal hasn't prevented kids from obtaining and using, it has only glamorized it and made it more attractive to them.

[LokiClock]

Portugal has decriminalized them, and heroin use has dropped by 10% since.

[Akatam0t0ma]

"Pot should actually be legal and governmentally regulated and Taxed the way Alcohol is but the rest of the hard drugs are illegal for very good reasons."

Actually, the fact that the hard drugs more dangerous is more of a reason to put them under government regulation than outlaw them. Racist or not, the drug war, in America or elsewhere, is a sad international fiasco that only helps the drug cartels which the governments declared war against.

[GrifterUno]

Great!!!...a little real education, so We don't make that same mistakes in the future!!!...Learning and History are two of the most important things in this planet!!!...Excellent explanation of the real causes of the bullshit We are still dealing with!!!

[Re5Publica]

White men were afraid of chinese men seducing white women? Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...

[freesk8]

It doesn't matter whether the intent of the legislation was racist or not. The important reasons to legalize drugs are:

1) The principle of the matter: WE have a right to say what goes in to our own bodies, NOT the govt.

2) The consequentialist argument: Prohibition creates more problems than it solves in society.

To point out racist intent in the early drug-warriors may be interesting, but that is not why we should end drug prohibition.

It's almost like he is making an ad hominem argument.

[eirefrance]

This is nothing like an ad hominem argument at all, and suggesting it is hurts your greater argument. There is a reason why certain drugs are illegal, and a simple glance at Wikipedia supports his view. He is providing context. You may have a greater libertarian agenda so you don't care about the context, but the fact is things happen for a reason.

[DonQuixotedeKaw]

What a strawman.

When Regan took office, Pharma, the prison industry, & corporate churches, teamed up & got rid of the USA's public mental healthcare system. All the loony bins closed/torn down. New drug laws, sentencing guidelines, degraded K-12 education, all tailor made for prisons to make money. With no psych wards, Pharma got bank for drugs, churches got Gov funded brainwashing centers.

De-criminalizing drugs, & a NHS, would close prisons, curb Pharma, & shrink Christards. Happen? Nope. $

[italianchappy]

prohibitionism was enacted at the same time where in those european countries where there weren't any different races in society.

It's more probable a drug gets prohibited when it starts becoming a mass phenomenon and isn't part of the country's tradition.

[m0nkeybl1tz]

This is a very interesting viewpoint that I've never heard, and appears to be quite accurate. I had always heard that marijuana was outlawed because of the whole Hearst/paper/textiles thing, which apparently turns out to be wrong.

As for the argument that they were outlawed because they were "bad", it seems fairly arbitrary that marijuana, heroin, cocaine, etc are outlawed, but alcohol, oxycontin, and adderall aren't.

[TempestWriter]

This man is plain wrong. Saying that cocaine was outlawed because of racism is just stupid. It was outlawed after it was found to have negative effects on the body. The same goes for all these drugs. They attempted to outlaw all drugs that destroy your body, with the exception of toboco, at some point in history. If he plans on arguing that outlawing drugs is racist, then he is by default saying that non-whites do drugs and whites don't, which is wrong.

[TheEvolver311]

you forgot the most lethal drug of all alcohol

[TempestWriter]

alcohol was at one time outlawed, but the law was never enforced. a decade later, FDR got rid of the prohibition to help get elected.

I do believe the our country would be better off without alcohol though. If it wasn't already so woven into our society I would seriously consider banning it as well.

[Aaberg123]

Are you kidding? Look up how the Mafia got power.

[TempestWriter]

I know how the mafia came to power - I'm Sicilian, my family was once part of the Ybor city mafia in Tampa in the 1930's. That's why I said if alcohol was not entrenched into our culture I would consider having it banned. However, it is entrenched, so banning it is futile.

[Aaberg123]

I misunderstood. My apologies.

However, I'm not sure that I agree with your position.

[TheEvolver311]

lol, it wasn't enforced? wow you need to go read some history books. the production of alcohol was how the mafia really gained nationwide power. it was also responsible for the mass violence related to the blackmarket that formed for it overnight. it wasn't that the law was never enforced but that it couldn't be practically enforced, to many people wanted to drink to stop it from happening.

wow your a moral dictator huh, you think you have the right to tell other people whats ok for them?

[TempestWriter]

@TheEvolver311

no I'm not a moral dictator, but I do have the right to disprove of the practices that other people choose for themselves. I believe in reason, that means keeping the mind clear and able to think, and the only way to do that is to avoid drugs and alcohol. I am allowed to make my own philosophical choices and voice them. If you think drugs are great, that's fine, but I won't approve, on the simple grounds that they weaken your grip on reality. But maybe reality isn't your thing.

[Akatam0t0ma]

You certainly have the right to be against certain practices, but as long as they don't affect you, what right do you have to force people out of these practices? There are plenty of things out there which I disapprove of(Such as religion) but I know that I have no right to force people not to do them as long as they don't affect me.

[TempestWriter]

Actually alcohol does effect me when it kills people I know through drunk driving. What makes you think any other mind altering drug would be different? You think people aren't going to drive after smoking pot? SImply put, being drunk or high can make you dangerous to those around you - and I'm not talking about raping white women like the guy in the video - I'm talking about the stupid shit that these people do that get them or someone else around them killed.

[Akatam0t0ma]

Yeah, drunk driving is indeed dangerous, no doubt about it, but we all know how well alcohol prohibition worked out. I don't know about the effect of marijuana on drivers, but if what I heard about it making them drive really slow, then it's not really a danger to anyone. And now the same shit is going with this ridiculous drug prohibition. Just like alcohol prohibition ended up enriching the mafia, drug prohibition ends up enriching criminal drug cartels.

[TheEvolver311]

marijuana doesn't kill brain cells, it causes them to temporarily become "numb", alcohol kills thousands of brain cells every time you drink. its rediculous that alcohol is legal and marijuana is not.

not to mention that the FBI has estimated some 60-70% of profits of the majority of all violent "gangs" comes from the marijuana black market alone.

it generates violence and death to outlaw it, because as history has shown the black market will be there. and violence will follow.

[TheEvolver311]

i assume that you don't take any prescirtion medication, because the majority of things your doctor can prescribe you cause more permanent damage to your brain, where marijuana causes no permanent damage to the brain. if you know people who take anxeity, pain,etc med's then you know people who do cocaine and heroin constantly.

reality is certainly my thing, but the reality is that we allready have far worste things not only legal but advertised on TV.

i don't

[Slug99]

"It was outlawed after it was found to have negative effects on the body."

No, they were outlawed because they were believed to cause other crimes. The primary reason why drugs are illegal is because the crimes some drugusers commit are crimes which mostly go unsolved, like muggings and break-ins. The idea is that if you kill the reason why people do all of these things, you kill the crimes themselves. However prohibition has lead to further use of these substances, thus the prohibition is bad.

[regresseur]

The speaker effectively serves to perpetuate racism with this kind of talk. He's way overboard.

[AlcesteEIL]

Oh, a jew bashing white people, how surprising.

Are we to deduce from this that he supports the mass atrocities committed by blacks, oft under the influence, against whites? That black pimps and their white drugged whores are just fine?

If drugs were legal, a lot of blacks would lose their revenue, relative prestige, etc. (viz. the hip-hop pseudo-culture). That's a main reason why I support legalization - to finally destroy the hoodlum economy & social apparatus.

[purplecharger88]

Yet another reason drug prohibition should be lifted.

[WellIAMScottish]

Fora somewhat redeems itself with this after putting up that shameful video of the bush crony talking about how prosecution of torture is 'wrong'.

[timsartsite]

i hate to break it to you guys but racism exists it has always existed. Ignoring it or pretending it isn't there won't make it go away

[arequipa1]

who cares if it goes away or not. you can't change everyone's minds. it's getting old to hear people scream about racism all the time.

[eirefrance]

I agree, I'm sick of middle-class white people calling everyone who isn't white racist.

[arequipa1]

i'm sick of people like you.

[timsartsite]

lol how old are you, 12?

[arequipa1]

no, a bit older than that actually.

are you some middle class white person bitching about racism, or do you actually have something legit to say?

[timsartsite]

i have a feeling no matter what I say you'll never find it "Legit". You have obviously made your mind up that racism is a figment of their imagination.

[JustificationNation]

some of our laws, are silly as hell.

[proteanview]

Sure racism exists, from all directions. Prohibiting cocaine had nothing to do w/ white fear of black dock workers.

This Jewish man seems hell bent on keeping blacks angry at whites. Racism - the great distraction.

There's little worse than when a 3rd party wants to convince two people to hate each other.

When he's speaking to African-American 'communities'? Man, give it a rest. Sew discord between some other groups before your smarmy ass gets booted. Gig's up!

[ctcoet]

well put!

we need more people like you with the licence to say that not EVERY wrong thing is racial.

[diomedes39]

you don't exactly help by referring to him as "this Jewish man"

[tregnier279]

'Cause the Jews cause everything bad and are trying to turn everyone against each other so they can take over the world and all it's money. I suppose Hitler had the right idea gassing them, after all, they are "hell bent on keeping blacks angry at whites."

[d3p3ch3mod3]

You're totally straw manning the guy. He didn't say drug laws are a conspiracy to keep minorities down;

He basicly said Xenophobia was a lot more culturally relevant when the drug laws were passed and immigration had an effect on public sentiment since people tend to sympathize more with elements within their own culture (& demonize the same practice more easily when it's percieved as part of a different culture)

"He's playing the race card!" Has now become the new race card

[arequipa1]

let's fold the deck of the race cards.

[ctcoet]

aww... the race card... so boring...

[eirefrance]

Haha, what a tool you are, ctcoet.