Zeitgeist: The Movie - DEBUNKED - CUT COLUMN

[VolodiaTheElder]

Theorists & Debunkers keep arguing instead of focusing on Cardinal Issues of any Criminal Investigation. Why Government broke Law by tampering with Criminal Evidence? Why Government chose a funny Commission that ignored Key Witnesses, Explosions, WTC7, Abel Danger, etc? Furthermore: Terrorist List Wrong, Bin Laden Not Involved, Saddam Not Involved. Whole thing like JFK Conspiracy. Thus, as in any Crime Investigation ask: Who Benefited Most from 911? Think like a Crime Detective + Stop Bickering.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@VolodiaTheElder

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You act as if you arent a truther. You are a truther. Youve thrown out many lies and distortions in one comment.

[skullcrusher6]

what the fuck is this? Zeitgeist isnt about fucking building. Have you even seen it? or is this shit the only defending to your materialistic lifestyle you can come up with? watching these i dont even know is this about the same Zeitgeist.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@skullcrusher6

-"watching these i dont even know is this about the same Zeitgeist."

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o_O Not sure what all that terrible broken English means, but some of my videos deal with claims brought up in Zeitgeist: The Movie. Hence the reason for the clip at the start ..from ...Zeitgeist: The Movie.....

[allateup2]

this is about the dumbest video ever..keep trying to debunk it u dumbass..hell yeah it the building went down at free speed explain that u dumb ass..im sure u will say something dumb u must be working for the govt im sure..explain to me why pieces of the building flew like 400 or more feet away there finding bones and shit from people 100s of yards away why is that if the building just collapsed on its self..please tell me. or why building 7 went down at free fall speed..

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@allateup2 - "went down at free speed"- - No they didnt. - " u must be working for the govt im sure."- - If everyone who didnt agree with truthers was working for the government, then most people would have to be in on the conspiracy. - "explain to me why pieces of the building flew like 400 or more feet away " - Bones are fragile, Don't know if you know that. - "why building 7 went down at free fall speed.."- - It didn't

[2dlamb]

Lol@ all your videos being about insignificant bullshit that you KNOW is not even used as preliminary evidence. do you have a building 7 video?. pentagon?

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@2dlamb

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"do you have a building 7 video?"

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No wonder you're still a truther. It would take two seconds to check my videos and see I have 2 on WTC7. The reason I dont have videos for everything is they take a long time to make and no one cares about anymore and others have already done them.

[fish5133]

Notice how long it takes to cut through one piece of steel with a specifically designed tool. What this video shows is how impossible it would have been for jet planes and fire to have caused the total collapse and destruction of the 3 WTCs at the speed in which they collapsed. However CD could cause them to collapse in such time.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@fish5133

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"What this video shows is how impossible it would have been for jet planes and fire to have caused the total collapse"

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Uh no it doesnt, you think the fires "sliced" through the beams in order to cause the collapse? You dont even know what the theory you deny actually is/.

[90longo]

@TheSkepticalIdealist ....You just repeated what you quoted him saying....THESE ARE THE FACTS: TWIN TOWERS (building 1&2) fell straight down in on themselves hitting the ground within 11 seconds. There were 110 floors, that's a collapse rate of 10 floors per second; try and clap 11 times in a second.

"How did the higher part of the building fall if only the bottom was cut?" - simple, not only the bottom was cut, there had to be simultaneous failing of the support columns as it collapses.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@90longo

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" within 11 seconds."

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No, it was not 11 seconds and the whole "clap 11 times a second" is a ridiculous suggestion came up by the Queen of ridiculous ideas, Dr Judy (space beams) Wood.

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"not only the bottom was cut, there had to be simultaneous failing of the support columns as it collapses."

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You didnt answer the question. Why would you need to melt/destroy the supports at the bottom of the towers?

[CyborgSamurai]

Let's say what you have shown in this video completely refutes the use of thermite (or any derivative compound), what then caused the building to topple down completely in such a way that it appeared to be controlled? A plane full of jet fuel could maybe take out 5 stories below it, and the floors above it, but don't you think they would slide off to the side? The entire building wouldn't just fall down in so many pieces.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@CyborgSamurai

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"Let's say what you have shown in this video completely refutes the use of thermite"

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Actually it doesn't refute the use of thermite and certainly not conclusively. What it does do is point out the absurdity of claiming the "cut column" was cut with thermite and the idea that they would cut columns at the base of the building would help it collapse from above.

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"and the floors above it, but don't you think they would slide off to the side"

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Only if below it was solid.

[CyborgSamurai]

@TheSkepticalIdealist

I don't want you to have the wrong impression - I don't believe the attack on the WTC plaza was an inside job, I'm not some "Truther". I was just wondering what answers you would have to some of the most brought up situations 9/11 conspiracy theorists use. I'm going to go do my own investigating, and thank you for giving me some good starting points.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@CyborgSamurai

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Feel free to send me a message if you have a point you would need an answer to. These videos take a while to make and so I havent made any in a good while and why Ive only got 6, there's plenty more I could say about all the subjects in my videos.

[PurePowerPunk]

super thermate mixed with paint, will give you the answer your looking for, thanks.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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Superthermite mixes with paint just burns, have you see the Jesse Ventura Conspiracy Theory 911 show? Jones claimed it woulkd somehow turn into a high explosive when mixed with paint, then the experiment with Van Romero showed all it did is burn, like gasoline.

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist /watch?v=f6WSDxErgBE off topic, but let the pilots explain to you the real truth about 9/11, with facts and real data

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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Real nonsense, they are fringe bunch of lunatucs. Why not go ask some real pilots on some real pilot forums? Why was the airline pilots association offering 2Million $ as a reward on Bin Ladens Wanted page? I guess all their pilots just sit back and do whatever they are told, same with the scientists an engineers that dont agree with you or support you. But yes thats all off topic, you claimed thermite + paint does something, what does it do?

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist nonsense? Some of those pilots have 20 to 40 years experience, with thousands of hours of flight time? Ok, you must not have seen the FBI's most wanted page, for myself I have seen it 100's of times, and nothing about 9/11 was on or near his name, that's 110% fact, so again he had nothing to do with 9/11. It's used as a cutting agent or melting agent

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist and please explain to me why this plane was able to punch threw the wtc

watch?v=is5klaVGLn8 <~~~~~~ Explain that one

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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You do realise that 90% of truthers including Alex Jones, Richard Gage, Jim Hoffman etc think you no planers are nuts right? Just checking. Next, 1. What problem do you see? And 2. Why wont you answer the topic you started?

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist and you do know, people like yourself resort to the lowest form by insulting "thruthers" because facts are facts, evidence is evidence, and there's no getting around that. I like for you to insult a family member who lost a loved one that day, because you do know they started the truth movement, you piece of rat shit. I did answer idiot. So, go play with someone else, my point is proven here and you lose

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist watch?v=jpPNRrylH00  ... There ya go punk, 110% fucking proof that thermite can cut threw steel beams.... OWNED BITCH

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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"There ya go punk, 110% fucking proof that thermite can cut threw steel beams.... OWNED BITCH"-

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He proved that thermite can be used to cut steel, he did not prove that this column was cut with thermite and he also didn't use thermite mixed with paint which you claimed somehow turned it into a super explosive. He didnt show you what it looked like afterwards or have it analysed. He showed you need to get at the colums directly and that you'd have loads of materials left over.

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist oh what the fuck ever man, you stupid debunkers, have some corner ass theory for everything, when facts are right there in your stupid little faces

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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You came here claiming that thermite mixed with paint did... something. You just pulled it out of your ass, so I asked you to explain yourself. You ignore me. Then you move onto another point, I ask you about that.. You again ignore me, then you move onto another point. ETC. If you dont care about my responces then why bother to continue to post here? If you're just looking for a block I can easily oblige you.

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist yes moron, I said mixed with paint it causes extreme heat and a cutting agent, if you'd payed any attention to what I said, instead of trying to insult me, you would have seen that. Then, I gave you more proof that thermite CAN cut threw steel beams, and yet again you try to insult me, or discredit that video in your own little stupid way. So, if you're looking to be rude and ignorant, then I suggest you look else where, if you want to debate this nicely, then bring it

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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", I said mixed with paint it causes extreme heat and a cutting agent,"

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No you didnt say that and no it doesnt. The video you linked to doesnt use thermite mixed with paint either.

[PurePowerPunk]

@TheSkepticalIdealist ok man, thermite was found in the dust at the world trade center. Let me hear your come back from this.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@PurePowerPunk

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It wasn't and they refuse to let any independant labs do any competent conclusive tests, why do you refuse to debate a single point? You just move onto the next one as if i never said anything, do it again and you're blocked.

[doire7]

At 4.10 to 4.13 you can clearly see where the columns were cut but you can also clearly see that there was NO slagging, how do you explain that?

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

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"At 4.10 to 4.13 you can clearly see where the columns were cut but you can also clearly see that there was NO slagging, how do you explain that?"

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I explain it by you not watching the whole video. if you go to 4:48 you can see a worker cutting a beam - at an angle - with slag dripping off. I also gave annotations where you can see more pictures of what it looks like cutting steel with a thermal lance, it looks exactly like a thermal lance cut sorry.

[doire7]

@TheSkepticalIdealist No no no, the columns at 4.10 and 4.13 have NO slagging at the side of them, end of story. Watched the whole video twice and you;ve proved nothing. WHY IS THER NO SLAGGING ON THOSE COLUMNS?

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

You cant tell if there is slag since the video quality is so poor. We KNOW they cut columns with thermal lances, we KNOW that a thermal lance produces slag, we KNOW what a torch cut looks like, we have a pictures like the one of a worker at 4:48 cutting a beam, at an angle, with molten steel slag dripping off it. The fact is it looks exactly like a thermal lance cut, what it does not look like is any cut from any form of thermite whatsoever . Also, see the summary points at the end.

[doire7]

@TheSkepticalIdealist OOOHHHH!!!!!!! so first i never watched the whole video properly but when that didn't work, we've changed our story to "the video quality is so poor," GOTCHA!!!

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

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Uh.. no pay attention. You claimed they didn;t cut columns with thermal lances because you cant see any slag in the video, yet I said that if you had watched the whole video you'd see the picture of a worker cutting a column with the torch with molten slag dripping off it. Again, it looks exactly like a thermal lance cut in every way, we know they used them on the site, none reported anything strange and thermite doesnt look like that.

[doire7]

@TheSkepticalIdealist No i did not claim they didn't cut columns with thermal lances, what i said was "why is there no slagging on those columns." No mention of thermal lances at all. Btw why don't you watch some of physicsandreason's videos.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

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"No i did not claim they didn't cut columns with thermal lances, what i said was "why is there no slagging on those columns." No mention of thermal lances at all"-

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Because the video quality is too low presumably. You have failed to respond to a single point so far, do you still deny that this column was cut with a thermal lance?

[doire7]

@TheSkepticalIdealist No i'm simply asking why there was no slagging on those beams? That's it, very simple.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

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"No i'm simply asking why there was no slagging on those beams? That's it, very simple."

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And I answered you. I also gave you a heap of other points you have also completely hand waved. Now here you say you do not deny that this column was cut with a thermal lance, maybe you can explain why you are being intentionally difficult? What is your point?

[doire7]

@TheSkepticalIdealist ......continued. Type in - AE911Truth on canada's new TV series - "The Conspiracy Show" w/Richard Syrret.mov

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@doire7

-[continued...}

"Btw why don't you watch some of physicsandreason's videos."

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I have, what do you think they prove? And Im not going to watch more random conspiracy video when you are so disingenuous here you consistently ignored every single one of my points regarding the cut column then reply such shocking arrogance anyway. I cant have a proper discussion with someone with such sloppy disregard for what anyone else is saying.

[HippoShanker]

just like in every THEORY theres things that are debunked that's why it's a THEORY, but i still don't see how these towers or building seven fell at free fall speeds, straight down

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@HippoShanker

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They didn;t fall at free fall speeds, stop believing the lies truthers tell you. 

[HippoShanker]

@TheSkepticalIdealist

empire state building is 1250 feet

1 tower was 1368 feet

i takes something to fall from empire state around 8 seconds (free fall)

the towers fell in around 10 seconds, thats free fall if you ask me

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@HippoShanker

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"the towers fell in around 10 seconds,"-

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You;ll never find a video that shows that, ones slective ones with selective editing. They fell in about 15-20 seconds. They showed substantial resiistance. There is no reason to think they would take longer, go watch "Verinage explosiveless demolition", and PS: the lower floors are not preweakened and no explosives are used.

[HippoShanker]

@TheSkepticalIdealist aright ill check it out glad to see people that dont get pissed and start insulting everybody

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@HippoShanker

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"the towers fell in around 10 seconds, thats free fall if you ask me"-

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The towers didn't fall in 10 seconds, so that's not free fall, if you ask me.

[puffintuffer]

Look!

/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

I guess it does!

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@puffintuffer

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Firstly, he did not show THIS picture of a column was cut by thermite, it always was nonsense. Secondly, he destroyed a CONNECTION but sticking a MASSIVE device on it. They would have no way to access any of the columns to do this and there is no evidence of any of these devices or evidence on the columns anywhere.It also produced a massive amount of yellow sparks, why did we not see this all over the tower? As usual truthers disprove themselves and don't notice.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist I always knew those columns were cut during cleanup, because Ive cut a lot of 1/2 inch plate in tech school using oxy-acetylene and plasma cutters myself, but I still dont get how asymmetrical damage to a tower makes it fall straight down at close to free fall speed, so I think there's something to the theory, but people make it look like bullshit with so called "evidence" like this that anyone with half a brain could debunk, so this vid doesn't really change my views much.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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Consider that you know yourself that this cut column claim is total nonsense because you have experience cutting metal with these torches., while you doubt the collapse still when only a small fringe amount of qualified people agree that its strange, in the same way that a small fringe minority of biologists think Creationism is true. Truthers rely on your ignorance, of everything.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist I suppose that's true, but I wonder how many experts who agree with the official story actually spent the time crunching the numbers, seeing as for most people the facts are self evident, and so require no further analysis.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist I'd love to get your opinion on 2 documentaries I've seen about the Pentagon attack though, they are "Pandora's Black Box" and "National Security Alert: Sensitive Information" (the second makes more sense if you've seen the first) anyway the evidence is pretty compelling if you have the time.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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Yes I am aware of those. CIT who made National Security Alert and infamous, there is a split in the 911 Truth community. Some who follow them and some who do not. For example 911 Research' Jim Hoffman calls it a Hoax promoting video, ie. If its iso bad that other truthers are saying its stupid it must be really bad. CIT focus on only a few eyewitness' and ignore everyone else, every other piece of evidence and any logic on why it would be done or why no one notices this fly over.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist Well I like new information like what I saw in these docos, to get a clearer picture of what's going on, but if someone wants to explain how 2 sets of evidence don't agree with each other or otherwise debunk the shit out of it, then I'm all for it, but as of right now my sense is that there's a general wrongness about the government's story that should make everyone suspicious.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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They are misrepresenting various pieces of evidence, like claiming that Lloyd admitted to being in on the conspiracy. They ignore the fact that most of the witness' they use if they were in a position to all say they saw the plane hit the Pentagon. No one saw a military jet, no one saw a cruise missile, no one saw the plane fly away. They say they are mistaken about seeing it hit, but not when they try and get them to say it flew North over Citgo

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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(continued..)

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They are also only interviewing a few witness' out of the hundred witness' that have been reporteded seeing the plane hit the Pentagon and as I said there are all the potential witness' that would have seen something had what they say really happened. Just why would the conspirators go to all that risk? Its complete insanity. And this isn't even talking about all the other evidence they would have to fake, DNA, radar, Black box. etc.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist I'm guessing they don't have the time or money to interview hundreds of people or to track them down or whatever, if there's a hundred people who corroborate the government story then I'd like to hear their interviews.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist Yes I knew when I saw it that the flyover scenario was weak, but if the plane flew north over citgo and hit the pentagon, then why phony up evidence showing that the flight path was different? Not to mention to old cab driver swearing black and blue that he wasn't even at the place where the flight data and photos said he was.

I'm not presuming to know what happened, all I'm saying is, 2 flight paths cannot exist if there isn't something shady going on.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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"if the plane flew north over citgo"-

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It didn't fly north over Citgo, this is the claim made by CIT since they insist that it it couldn't have hit if it did so and therefore flew over. Lloyd (cab driver) is a confused old man, they even showed that he was a conspiracy theorist and read David Icke books. Just think about what you're suggesting, that they faked the plane crash and faked his car crash and stuck a pole through it with no one noticing.

[luke666808g]

@TheSkepticalIdealist if you're such a big shot skeptic, then prove that their eye witness accounts are bullshit, instead of just SAYING they are.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@luke666808g

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"prove that their eye witness accounts are bullshit,"-

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Its been done by plenty of people, including loads of other truthers. I'm not going to cover old ground or bother with it if even other truthers are saying they are full of shit. I also refuse to bother with WTC no planers. They ignore heaps of evidence but you don't seem to care or seem to care about how logically insane it is. Even the people they interviewed say they saw the plane hit the pentagon

[loosechangeexposed]

you wrote special thanks to Mark Roberts, please tell him about my channel and videos if you could. he is featured in my video "loose change on broadway" you will like how i show loose change is like henny penny (the sky is falling)

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@loosechangeexposed

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hey man, I only credited him because I liked his website, postings on JREF and some PM's I sent him asking him a few questions. Unfortunately I don't have any contact with him bescides that and have no idea what he is doing now!

[buzzbug22]

I notice you choose not to provide a comparison showing a beam cut with oxy/acetylene and a beam cut with thermate, why is that? Why would the site workers want to cut a beam at a 45 degree angle instead of a horizontal cut . My brother is a sheet metal fabricator by trade and after seeing how the towers were constructed told me that from the time the aircraft impacted to the time of the collapse could not produce enough significant heat concentrated in key areas to cause a failure

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@buzzbug22

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"I notice you choose not to provide a comparison showing a beam cut with oxy/acetylene and a beam cut with thermate, why is that? "-

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lol, maybe because there is no such example of a beam cut with thermite. Go ahead and find a steel beam cut with thermite and compare it.

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"Why would the site workers want to cut a beam at a 45 degree angle instead of a horizontal cut "-

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So it falls in one direction? But now you're saying they cut them that way on purpose? lol

[buzzbug22]

You deniers always are so predictable, when the questions get tough, you wheel out the old truthers paranoia about 911.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@buzzbug22

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"You deniers always are so predictable, when the questions get tough, you wheel out the old truthers paranoia about 911. "

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I'm sorry but you're the denier, as in same as evolution denier, or global warming denier, or AIDS denier or halocaust denier. You're right though, truthers are paranoid. Good to see you don't want to deal with any of the actual points I bring up.

[gunthaarz]

as if the angle cut was the only evidence, when you're standing in the worlds biggest pile of massive steel H beams _everywhere_ ALL mangled up like only so much boiled spaghetti. Pretending all the abnormal deformations around you came from a "pancake collapse! By now you'd have to be a _blithering_ IDIOT not to understand neither basic laws of physics OR what you have right in front of you. use the search term "you cant use common sense" in youtube... great vid. IF you get _irony_ that is

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@gunthaarz

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"when you're standing in the worlds biggest pile of massive steel H beams _everywhere_ ALL mangled up like only so much boiled spaghetti.

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Thats what steel looks like in a fire, sorry. There's lots of pictures of normal fires where the steel is all twisted up "spaghetti".

[buzzbug22]

@TheSkepticalIdealist How unlucky can you get? . No steel frame building IN THE WORLD has ever suffered a structural failure due to fire until 9/11, and then, we get 3, within 5 hours all within 200 yds of each other.

Does your mother still read you bed time fairy stories at night ?.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@buzzbug22

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"How unlucky can you get? . No steel frame building IN THE WORLD has ever suffered a structural failure due to fire "-

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You got the script wrong, its not no steel frame building has collapsed from fire. YES THEY HAVE. The script you're meant to be reading from truthers is no steel frame HIGH RISE. What is it about steel you think is so indestructable?

[MrIzzyDizzy]

so it was done with thermite instead of shape charges -doesnt mean it wasnt an inside job - what you fail to mention was the flowing rivers of metal for days after -jet fuel burns off in minutes - also you fail to mention is thermite found in the dust -along with hungres of other pieces of evidence - for the best study on the collapse see architects and engineers for 911 truth

[warlord2080]

Heres another thing most of these people have not experienced a collapse falling on top of them. Which at some point some people can be confused with what they hear is explosives when it can be the exact opposite. In this situation of danger most of these people were not calm enough to hear these sounds. I've heard of some people say it sounded "like a bomb" but this doesn't mean that they were right on it because of the significant danger that they were in.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@omnivar666

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1. It didnt collapse at free fall

2. Witness describe explosions, not explosive detonations. We call lots of things explosions that do not refer to explosives. Thats why NO ONE AT ALL suffered any blast trauma, strange considering truthers claim people were thrown around by bombs.

3. No videos of the collapses capture any explosive detonations consistent with high explosives. Gage's group claim heavy steel was thrown around, yet he thinks these were quiet.

[MichaelAngeloBeats]

I strongly believe (due 2 enough evident footage) that it was all truly pre-meditaded. There's absolutely no way that the 2 planes, given @ the angle & their locations in each of the buildings, could've brought them down, almost precisely in their own footprints. I admit, so far, of all 20+ "evident" videos & footages, your's is the only 1 doing a good job in "possibly" debunking. But it's the only 1 I've seen. No 1 else is "able" 2 come up w/ hypothysis's backed by footages, or scenarios.

[sssssjjjj1]

hahah look how much money you guys are spending trying to debunk, hahahha. if you were innocent you wouldn't even bother. You dumbasses are caught. speaking of caught, watch on youtube >mossad caught in van on 9-11 "filled with explosives." gw bridge. it shows cops on radio actual nyc police dispatch footage of cop that pulled up on the van saying, "the van they're in has mural of nyc skyline with airliner crashing into the twin towers exploding." You guys are caught and gonna HANG!

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@sssssjjjj1

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lol, how much money do you think I spent on this video??? Does it really look that good to you? I think it looks like shit personally but I guess I am wrong.

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But since you're completely incoherent and rambling mess of comments here shows you are either very young, very stupid or very insane. Either way, no point dealing with you.

[sssssjjjj1]

you're an idiot.  9-11 inside job. Only 2nd grade mentality could have fell for it, that and the paid commentors on this page. hi. how's your cubical. You guys pitchin' in for pizza today and using pull it larry pull it's debit card. hahahha you loser joosers. You murderers little helpers.

[masterodisastr]

know what really happened that day, and why it happened. And the open minded approach is best suited for accomplishing this task, and proper form of argument and presentation of facts. And you have definitely, absolutely, taken great care in your counterarguments to something that was presented rather carelessly, which is quite amateurish to begin with. Kudos homie, Skepticism is healthy in this case.

[masterodisastr]

your investigation is very good. It's also very important. I'm one of the people who has concluded that yes, 9-11, was orchestrated, or at the very least, allowed by the government. But, I think your investigation is important to realizing the real events, the real truths, by debunking mythological ones and misrepresenting evidence, because it takes both sides of the spectrum to define a line of truth. I think that is ultimately your goal, to consider all facts, and check for accuracy, so we...

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@masterodisastr

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You seem to be under the impression that I am saying that 911 was a government conspiracy. I am very sorry but you must have not watched the video all that closely since it debunks one of the conspiracy theories "truthers" promote. I do not support the idea of government conspiracy at all.

[masterodisastr]

@TheSkepticalIdealist Nope...not uner that assumption at all, that is why I alluded to the fact that you make counterarguments against conspiracy theorists. But, you do so with a very open mind...your skeptical of what was presented in Zeitgeist, but you destroy their fragmented and favorable arguments. Favorable as in supporting the conspiracy theory. And that is narrow mindedness and bad evidence, whereas you yourself have not made the same mistake. I was complimenting you...read carefully.

[masterodisastr]

@TheSkepticalIdealist LoL, sorry I am not being clear with what I am saying...all I'm trying to say is you absolutely obliterate an assertion made in the video. Which is good. I like to know what happened, and what didn't.

[gunthaarz]

@skepticalidealist in this video you (the video makers) have latched on to _one_ single element that has a minuscule bearing on the whole rest of the complex issue. - if you get any kind of IRONY used as a means of explaining how easy it is to determine 100% for yourself if the official story of the mechanisms involved in the collapse are at all possible then use the search term "you cant use common sense" and watch the video "9/11 Physics: "You Can't Use Common Sense" . If that dont help...

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@gunthaarz

-

"in this video you (the video makers) have latched on to _one_ single element that has a minuscule bearing "

-

I am debunking one particular claim that truthers make in this video, you should just thank me and then hold those promoting it accountable to admit they were wrong.

[chronius9]

@omnivar666 They were not viable.

[JBSdownload]

I believe you are right about the cause of the angular cuts being part of the cleanup operation rather than a result of the sudden onset destruction of the three towers. As a "truther" I am willing to take a close look at every detail and strive to get to a rationally based analysis. Your presentation is well taken and it is a reasonable piece of work; I think it eliminates a "red-herring" argument, although it is no way a "case-closing" argument on the subject of controlled demolition.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@JBSdownload

While other truthers have accepted this fact along with a large amount that DON'T t accept the claims that no plane hit the Pentagon, I am happy that you have so quickly accepted that this claim is false!

I used to be a truther and one of the reasons why I stopped (other than I found all their arguments were wrong) was because most of them have no accountability.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@JBSdownload

[continued...]

Ultimately I find that individual truther's have much more accountability than the "experts" they rely on for information like Richard Gage, or David Ray Griffin.

In the case of Peter Joseph who made (put together) Zeitgeist, he has refused to admit there is ANY error in the film outside anything as major as a typo!

In case of David Ray Griffin a few months ago he was STILLrepeating the "No Hijackers on Flight Manifests" claim (see my other video)

[JBSdownload]

Where is it written that only one type of explosive is used?

Your point is based on the governments assertion that fire brought down the building. How does fire cut steel at an angle? Break the mind control please.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@JBSdownload

My first clue that you didnt watch the video is you asked me :

"How does fire cut steel at an angle? "

No one said fire cut the column. Watch again and pay attention.

[cancanbiker]

@TheSkepticalIdealist

to pay proper respect to the fireman, most were pulled from the pile on nov 1st. (hence the cops that got punched in the face by fireman, while the nypd suffered a fraction of the loss as fireman) Yes the body parts were put in dumpsters and hauled away once the remaining gold was found!

I also find it no coincidence credit transaction that profit of the very attack were processed in the minutes before the collapse of each building.

Sheer luck I guess.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@cancanbiker

eh?

[jizzmonger]

@cancanbiker

You stupid fucking stoner Canadians. All of you are the God Damn stoner paranoid hippies that ran away from the United States since your shitty grades couldn't keep you out of the draft.

[cancanbiker]

@jizzmonger

your words are meaningless. You just spew what ever nonsense keeps you happy. You try and articulate cannabis with my comments, which is ridiculous but in reality it is nothing more than a drug, like Tylenol or booze, but it is the easy boogyman for politicians to put all blame on. No need to here your nonsense.

[jizzmonger]

@cancanbiker

LOL

Yeah weed is just like Tylenol.

You are so corrupted that you actually think that.

[cancanbiker]

@jizzmonger

Recorded deaths from marijuana... show me some

Must be why doctors give it to cancer patients, because it gives you cancer and is a real killer?

deaths from legal prescription pills annually in America: 100,000

Booze:150,000 not counting drinking+ driving

The laugh is on you

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@cancanbiker

How you two got onto that topic I have no idea!

[jizzmonger]

@cancanbiker

One is a painkiller, weed is mind-altering agent you take because you can't deal with your boring ass life that you have created for yourself.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@omnivar666

There are no visible blasts, you are talking about the so called "squibs" yet they dont behave like real squibs. Gage and co claims that steel and material is being ejected outwards in the collapse and yet there are no explosion sounds.

You cant build a silent explosive that causes large amounts of damage. The more intense the explosive the louder it has to be. Yet cameras only picked up a slow progressive rumble/roar, which is NOTHING like a real CD.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@omnivar666

The building didnt fall at free fall speed. 15 and 22 seconds is way over free fall.

Large building fires are expected to have explosions, but explosions from EXPLOSIVES are very different things. Why didnt anyone suffer any blast injuries from all these bombs that truthers claim were going off all over the place? Real demoltions are timed and sequential, they dont have explosions going off ramdomly at random times.

[leedor35]

i am an engineer, the video presentation doesnt make any sense, thanks anyway for your hardwork.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@leedor35

What doesnt't make sense about it? Do you still think the column was cut by thermite rather than a thermal lance?

[saxbeast4]

to add to the other argument, mythbusters failed to even cut an old car in half using thermite, and they used a shit ton of thermite, so that argument is out

[saxbeast4]

continuation, the building was designed to take hits and handle earthquakes, so the planes shouldnt have taken it down without extra help, and even if the building collapsed the main columns were even stronger and should have stayed upright the whole time, the thermite thing is stupid though, its just not possiblewith that amount of steel to cut without using a ridiculous amount of it, and then there wouldnt be angles, but shape charges seem to fit the profile a lot better

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

1. Not saying you're wrong but Im pretty sure it wasnt built to withstand earthquakes, but I did hear it was designed to sway a certain amount during hurricans and high winds.

2. Leslie Robertson said they didnt factor in the fuel from the planes hitting it and the 757 carries substantially more fuel. He also said that they designed it to withstand the impact of a plane that was lost and low on fuel. Not a 757 flying fullspeed into the building.

[saxbeast4]

thats true too, if the government would just stop being bitches about this stuff and come out and tell the whole truth with all the details this wouldnt even be a discussion, that almost bothers me more than the incident itself, but what did you think about the other building that supposedly collapsed from a fire?

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

Except most of the "questions" from truthers are just based on ignorence and lies made up by the likes of David Ray Griffin.

Regarding WTC7 I have two videos on this (at the moment). Theres lots truthers make up about this, but what they avoid like the plague is the fact that no experts on the scene had any problem with the idea that WTC7 would collapse or had any issue about how it collapsed. Firefighters knew hours earlier and even waited around for it to happen.

[tarkus21]

70 % of the family steering committee questions for 9/11 commision report went unanswered!!!

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@tarkus21

What sort of questions deserved answering? Many of the legitimate ones were already answered, truthers just pretend they havent and refuse to understand.

Do you feel this column was cut by thermite, or not?

[saxbeast4]

this video puts in some very valid points, there is no way they could have cut the beams with thermite, thats just stupid, but they could have planted shape charges before the planes hit, there were a couple people who said they heard a band in the basement before the planes hit, and if they had used shape charges there would be no recognisable material left over after the building collapse, and fot the second last point, if the beams werent cut the central columns would have stayed upright

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

Glad you can see thermite is impossible, but shape charges are also unlikely and still have nothing to do with this angle cut. The angle looks exactly like the cut of a thermal lance in every way.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

btw as far as i know only William Rodriquez claims to have heard basement explosions before the plane impacted. However he only started saying that many years after the event, he even tried to sue the government for almost every conspiracy under the sun, but also didnt mention these explosions.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

Also regarding basement explosions... like I asked in the video how would that help the building collapse from above anyway?

[saxbeast4]

the reason the truth people say that is because ''theoretically'' the central columns should have stayed up, and when the pane hit only the floors would collapse leaving the beams standing, so they think that the cuts would have caused the beam to break enough to crumple with the floors as they fell, like a tiny hole in a glass pane makes it exponentially weaker, thats their theory on it but as for how valid that is i dont know, im not an expert on taking down huge ass buildings like this

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

First thanks for discussing this like a reasonable person.

Second the idea that they needed to blow the columns up to ensure the floors collapsed or because they would have been left standing afterwards is wrong because...

1. Even if they cut the colmns from above it would have made no difference.

2. The columns werent designed to stand up without the rest of the building.

3. You can see in a few videos that a large portion of the core was left standing temporarily.

[saxbeast4]

they didnt need to take out the core colomns to collaple the floors, they would collapse with our without the core beams on there own because they are weak

i thought they could stand on there own, maybe im wrong but dont they build the core beams first then then and the floors using the central beams as a skeletal structure meaning that they could stand on their own?

and thanks, i hate seeing people just rant and yell at eachother like immature children, thank you for not being one of them

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

Yes they wouldnt have needed to take out any core columns the floors would have collapsed themselves, thats what I was trying to say.

They couldnt stand on their own, they werent designed for that. They built around the core going up. They *didnt* build the entire height of the building's core first. Like I said though a substantial amount of the core did stay standing after the collapse temporarily. David Ray Griffin claims otherwise because he is a liar.

[saxbeast4]

ill do some research on david, even if they had been cut some would stay standing, much like some peices of a sand castle stay somewhat intact even if it gets bumped, but thats beside the point, ty for the convo.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

@saxbeast4

You might want to ask yourself if they got cut why would they cut them at the bottom like truthers claim? The collapse clearly initiates from the impact zone. There is no way cutting the columns at the base would have any effect on that.

If you want some easily demonstrable lies Griffin told I can provide you with some examples. He is either a liar or someone so incompetent you cant distinguish him from a liar. He is however an expert researcher to the truth movement. wow.

[HerrTulpe]

good job. hopefully you'll find the time to do the update

[RZMaslic]

dude they used thermate. Explain the molten metal at the bottom of all the wreckage from 9/11 which stayed thousands of degrees hot for a long time.

[Edbrad]

Hi RZMaslic,

1st: Thermate is made up of 30% barium nitrate, Steven Jones found none of that. They also failed to find Aluminium oxide which is a biproduct produced in the reaction. Every other element Jones found is commonly expected in the WTC dust. Sulphur for example is in the dry wall.

2nd: The molten metal is best explained by molten aluminium which was abundant in the WTC dust, not steel. Aluminium has a much lower melting point.

[Edbrad]

RZMastic....

continued from previous comment.....

...The fact that there was molten metal for so long proves it cant be molten steel. No incarnation of thermite is capable of sustaining temperatures long enough to keep steel molten. Fires however could have kept aluminium molten for that amount of time.

[McHrozni]

It's quite simple, really. Substantial heat and presence of sulfur led to sulfidation and oxidation of steel, formation of an eutectic mixture in the solid phase, and intergranular melting. To top it off, much of the molten metal was aluminum.

How would thermate explain the molten metal, by the way? Tens of thousands of tons of the stuff? =)

[NRen2k5]

Dude, there's no way thermate used to precision-cut some beams would leave huge pools of molten metal in the debris.

Planes hit the towers.

Open your eyes.

[mikelanzaro]

The truth movement will continue to attract greater and greater numbers of intelligent people.

You're flimsy argument will garner a few idiots.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

So do you still think the column was cut with thermite?

[zensmack89]

This video fucking blows. "The clean-up workers didn't find any suspicious devices"? This is your debunking?

They weren't looking for any. You know what they were looking for? Human remains. And they still haven't found over a thousand victims.

They were also looking for the black boxes from the planes. Did they find them? Nope.

I guess none of that ever exsisted either according to you and your ass backwards logic debunker. Get a job. A real one.

No one is buying this smelly shit.

[fulcrumpete]

Had there been suspicious devices, they'd have found them.

[TheSkepticalIdealist]

Zensmack,

1st, you didnt watch the whole video, clearly. I showed that cleanup workers cutting columns were a common sight. That thermal lance cuts look exactly like the cut on the column in queston. That Thermite cant cut sideways and that theres clearly a picture of a cleanuo worker cutting a column at an angle.

2nd. If Steven Jones is suggesting they used some kind of device to cut the columns they wouldnt have havd to look for them, they would have been everywhere.

[NRen2k5]

Yeah, and people are really buying 9/11TM's version of what happened on 9/11.

Oh wait, the dumb fucks don't even HAVE their own version. Eight years now and they're still gawking at puffs of smoke.

[NRen2k5]

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. As it is, the truth movement so far doesn't really seem to have any intelligent people yet.