Zuhdi Jasser and Robert Spencer debate Islamic reform

[koyunbaba73]

These two well meaning and decent men are arguing about whether Islam can be reformed. They're speaking about theoretical possibilities, and it's interesting, and depending on who persuades you more, you may finish listening to this debate with more hope or less hope. Meanwhile in the real world, the results of Islamic teaching can be seen plainly written in blood. The debate is somewhat secondary to the fight that needs to happen.

[ritchloui]

Qu’ran 60:4 "The rights of Allah and his Book and His Prophet, are more important than our personal rights. Remember this, for this is one of the things that will help you to hate them and regard them as enemies until they believe in Allah alone."

[ritchloui]

Qu’ran 4:95 Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward

[ritchloui]

Khomeini's first book was Kashf al-Asrar, aka Secrets Unveiled, 1942 Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. Ayatollah Khomeini

[mammyoriordan]

It's a mess, islam is a total and utter mess! God help us all - Rene

[polka23dot]

Islam is based on the Koran and on a lifestyle of a bandit called Muhammad. Muslims believe that the Koran is the perfect work of Allah. In fact, the Koran is probably the most idiotic and the most chaotic book ever written. It has so many grammatical errors that experts cannot decipher the meaning of 20% of its text. Arabic proverb (al-fikr kafir) says that the very act of thinking makes one an infidel. Thinking is prohibited because Muslims become former Muslims as soon as they begin to think.

[polka23dot]

Like [Ayaan] Hirsi Ali, [Wafa] Sultan does not believe Islam can be reformed. Nor does she believe in the possibility of a moderate Islam. On that point, she says, she is in full agreement with radical militants. Her main job, she says, is to warn the West not to believe those Muslims who speak out of both sides of their mouth, first to a Muslim audience, then to a Western one to which they utter soothing words...

cbc . ca / canada / story / 2010/01/12/ f-vp-handler . h t m l

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[polka23dot]

The essence of Islam is its founder, Muhammad. He was exceptionally cruel bandit, and yet Muslims call him uswa hasana (model of conduct) and al-insan al-kamil (perfect man). Their Islamic duty to emulate Muhammad’s crimes is called Sunna. There is no precedent of a Muslim majority tolerating kafir minority, but there is plenty of historical evidence that Islam cannot be reformed. Islam will bring rivers of blood into our cities. Millions of Muslims will die, and Islam will die with them.

[MrILoveYeshua]

this discussion is typical between sophisticated people of different cultural backgrounds. Robert constantly refers to islamic sources to prove his points and to disprove Jasser, but Jasser almost never does it b/c he knows what they teach. lnstead he comes up with convenient arguments that in part are incorrect to convince us to tolerate islam.

Robert owns him, but nevertheless Jasser remains to seem to be another stealth jihadist,bit more intelligent, but still one in a suit and a tie.

[polka23dot]

@MrILoveYeshua Jasser is a genuine Muslim reformer and American patriot. He gets lots of support from the kaffirs (non-Muslims), but all he gets from fellow Muslims are death threats. Spencer is more realistic about Muslim reformation. Neither of them mentioned Wahhabism - about 80% of Western mosques are controlled by the Wahhabis. Wahhabism is similar to the Protestant Reformation - it is the return to the violent roots of Islam. Muslims will never tolerate kaffirs.

[MrILoveYeshua]

McCarthy says, muslims in US don't want to live under sharia. But if it had been true, why do they not speak out against islam, since islam cannot exist without sharia?

And secondly, islam accordn to Jasser's expectations will always bear a risk of becoming what it still is, the real islam with jihad and submission of women. muslims will never accept Jasser's islam.