How To Make Small Sugar Rocket Motors (Part-2)

[randy12368]

Where did you get the cardboard plugs? What did it cost you to have your tools machined? Thanks in advance

[NichroPulse]

@randy12368 If you download the free plans from my website, there is a sources list included. I had my kit machined at Knick Machining in Bozeman MT.

[Tay58382]

Would you say a person could use Black powder in place of the benzoate ? another question is how would you determine how big of a charge is needed ?

[NichroPulse]

@Tay58382 Benzoate is only a fuel. BP is a propellant (fuel/oxidizer/catalyst/binder­). If you mean whistle-mix (benzoate/chlorate or perchlorate) then yes you can make a good rocket with either. BP is easier because it is less sensitive to over-pressure.

[radikali303]

@NichroPulse One question. If you make the rocket body longer , will it go highther in the sky , will the burn time be longer , or it will just explode ?! , supose you make the body the double of the length of that in your video.

[MrCrossbowmaster]

Wait the fuse is in the top

[NichroPulse]

@MrCrossbowmaster The delay fuse for the ejection charge.

[MrCraigmather]

nice rocket makeing kit is there any chance u can make me and send it in the post to the uk i will pay u for it like looked all over the net for them

[TheWakeUpShow2011]

whats sugar do you use, is it normal cane sugar or is it iceing sugar

[negativeZX]

HE HAS TNT DYNOMITE RUN AWAY

[LILREEPER101]

About how much what is to make it

[NichroPulse]

@LILREEPER101 About $100 all together.

[LILREEPER101]

Yeah I have tried is there any other name for a aching shop or do you know the name of one?

[NichroPulse]

@LILREEPER101 I use Knick Machining in Bozeman MT.

[LILREEPER101]

Hi nice video,I have the plans for the kit but I can't seem to find a machine shop in my area can you help me out?

-thanks

[NichroPulse]

@LILREEPER101 Have you Googled it and Yellow-paged it?

[MrAirshot]

does the rocket candy gives more thrust than the ramming method ?

[NichroPulse]

@MrAirshot Both seem about the same. The cast-candy may be more energy dense possibly, but thrust has many factors, not just propellant.

[PSPFREAK221155]

@NichroPulse hey why do you use everytime kno3+sugar and not blackpowder is kno3+sugar better ???????

[NichroPulse]

@PSPFREAK221155 No, BP is better in performance; but KNO3+Sugar is cheaper, easier to get, safer and cleaner.

[3llDiablo]

is it safe to hammer kno3 + sugar?? My mom got mad at me for making these rockets because she thought i would blow up the entire country... :/ Please reply!

[NichroPulse]

@3llDiablo She is just trying to look out for your well being, and she is nice to do so. However, hammer ramming KNO3 and sugar as I do in this video will not cause it to ignite. You can purchase a 1-ton arbor press from HarborFreight and press them in the traditional way. Pressing is how black powder motors like Estes have been made for many years. KNO3/Sg is the most stable of all the common propellants. It has a slow burn rate and is not friction sensitive. It's ideal for beginners.

[Ethanearhart]

@NichroPulse How much did the explosive cost and where did you get it?

[NichroPulse]

@Ethanearhart The report charge is an aluminum-oxidizer mix. These ones only cost a few cents each at the most.

[modelrocket2000]

How do you make an ejection charge?

[WWEA5HZ]

at 5:06 its jingle bells woth hammers

[WWEA5HZ]

i was searching the magic bullet yesterday

[JackMeoffsloe]

Fixed the problem. Now add half-spoon full increments. I am compressing the fuel grain better, so by making it more dense, they are getting off the ground now! Plus, I am doing the end burner now with 3mm nozzle.

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe Hurray!

[JackMeoffsloe]

You really have this sh%^ down to a science. Your rockets are really getting height. I am going to take your advice. Thanks again bro.

[JackMeoffsloe]

When you say add 3-5% aluminum powder, do you mean lets say a 65/35 ratio being a 100 gram batch, so add say 5 grams of aluminum powder to the 100 grams, which would be 5% of total weight. Is this correct?

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe Well, technically 5/105 is 4.76%, but that's close enough. You can also try 70/30 to increase the burn rate. More oxidizer will make it burn faster (to a point). I am assuming that your 65/35 is KNO3/Sugar not Sugar/KNO3.

[JackMeoffsloe]

@NichroPulse Yes, KNO3 and Powdered sugar(KNO3 being oxidizer). I will try the 70/30 as well. I might also try to melt in a pot together, so if there is a moisture problem and a problem somehow mixing and binding chemicals doing it dry, this might help, correct?

[JackMeoffsloe]

@JackMeoffsloe but don't grind together, right?

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe I grind KNO3/sugar together sometimes.  It's pretty insensitive.

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe Yes, you can melt it slowly while stirring, be careful not to let it caramelize (turn dark brown). It should be very-light-tan to white. This method ensures a very homogeneous mixture and will boil out any water absorbed by the KNO3.

[JackMeoffsloe]

Luv the vid bro. Good tutorial. I followed everything in your video but I have no thrust. My rocket won't leave the ground. 65/35 ratio well compressed around cored spindle. I lit at night to test and the burn rate look fast, but no thrust to propel it. It was just a smoke bomb. How come?

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe What is the diameter and length of your core rod? It might not be giving enough surface area, or you might have a moisture problem. KNO3 tends to be hygroscopic.

[JackMeoffsloe]

@NichroPulse It is a five inch rocket the core is about 41/2 inches long and 5mm diameter. I bought the tooling on United Nuclear Scientific. It burns fast but no lift! Do I need another ingredient to help with this issue, or should i get a ball mill. Just don't seem right. What do you recommend? thanks

[NichroPulse]

@JackMeoffsloe Hmmm...that kit is made for black powder. For KNO3/Sugar that is finely powdered or cast R-candy, you should use a smaller throat on the nozzle. However, that is a lot of surface area from the core, so maybe not too small. You can also add 3% red iron oxide and 3-5% aluminum powder to increase the burn rate. Are you using PVC?

[JackMeoffsloe]

@NichroPulse No, I am using paper tubes. I got the wrong tooling. Oh sh#$. I am going to try your remedy. Thanks bro!

[Lvduggo69]

I go to the dollar store and get a cold pack that has a pouch of watter and little balls of PN and u have to blend it or use a mortar and pesil. It works good ! Then I use flash powder mix wich gives u a great report.

PVC works great toooo !

[105VAL]

Hi, whats the recept of your salute and how do you attach it to the rocket?

[NichroPulse]

@105VAL I used 70/30 KClO4/Al in a short tube rolled with an index card taped on to the top with biodegradable masking tape.

[Jackman781]

instead of using bentonite clay for the end, can you use cement???

[NichroPulse]

@Jackman781 Yes if you insert a moisture barrier to keep the propellant dry.

[Jackman781]

how much does the kit cost to be made at a machine shop???



[NichroPulse]

@Jackman781 Somewhere between $50 and $150.

[strkat]

what is the diameter of the whole of the rocket funnel

[NichroPulse]

@strkat The diameter of the nozzle is 3/4 inch (0.75). The throat is 6mm.

[strkat]

@NichroPulse and what is the pvc pipe schedule?

thanks

[NichroPulse]

@strkat I use schedule 40

[Dem0D1ck]

Some brands of tree stump remover are 100% potassium nitrate, and come in powdered form, save you the trouble of putting it in the blender. But, you could use the blender to mix the kno3 and sugar thoroughly.

Am a little confused by construction. Other vids on sugar rocket motors show hole going from nozzle all the way up through propellant and stopping at the top plug, you only go half way up. Is there a reason? Tks.

Nice construction video, very enjoyable.

[NichroPulse]

@Dem0D1ck Good to know. I use a core-end burner hybrid because it maximizes the pressure without bursting these spiral wound tubes. I use spiral wound tubes to get costs below well 25 cents each. I do use a complete core burner in PVC if both the nozzle and plug are attached very strongly.

[hellkid94]

How big is your nozzle? I use a 5 mm nozzle with the powder drilled all the way to the top plug but I'm getting a 4-5 sec burn with no lift at all. Also im getting a build-up of melted sugar(i would say caramelized but the color is solid white) around the exit of the nozzle, any ideas? Thank You for any help

[NichroPulse]

@hellkid94 I also use a 5mm throat diameter. The white melted stuff is just bentonite, and it is normal. How long is your motor? If it's like mine (2.5") than the core all the way to the top plug seems a bit long if you are using a ~.112" diameter core bit. What is your mix ratio? It should be 65/34 by mass, KNO3/Sugar. If you are pressing it (instead of casting) you need to powder the KNO3 and use powdered sugar.

[hellkid94]

@NichroPulse Mine are 2.5" long, my mix ratio is 65/35 by mass, KNO3/sugar and i'm pressing it. I use Spectracide Stump Remover as my source of KNO3, the grains are about the size of salt grains, is that too big or is it fine? Thank You

[NichroPulse]

@hellkid94 That is too big for pressing. It needs to be a fine powder. Also, stump remover might have other impurities in it, slowing the burn rate down. Look online or ask for the MSDS where you bought it, they must have one available to customers by law. The MSDS will specify the percentage (purity) of KNO3. One way to increase the burn rate is to add a bit more oxidizer.

[hellkid94]

@NichroPulse Thanks, i have an old blender that I'll use to get it smaller, how deep should the core be on a 2.5" rocket?

[NichroPulse]

@hellkid94 It depends on the diameter (surface area of the core) Using a 0.112" diameter cylindrical core, start out with 1.3 to 1.4 inches.

[MrChiltan]

@NichroPulse are there many types of pottasium nitrate?????? i did the same procedure which u did but my fuel did not work....whats the reason?

[MrChiltan]

@NichroPulse ::the potassium nitrate which u r using is boiled or not ??

[NichroPulse]

@MrChiltan No, it is not boiled. It's just standard food-grade.

[heathfiedler]

the magic bullet! buy it now and get a rocket fuel beater free!!

[ThePRxXJOKERXx]

yooo good vid but i tryed to downlond the nozzle kit and couldent can u send it tru something else ???

[NichroPulse]

@ThePRxXJOKERXx What browser and version are you using?  It's the download button at the top of the product details page.

[mike12703]

@NichroPulse if its 300 mesh potassium nitrate is there a need to grind it if its already fine powder

[NichroPulse]

@mike12703 No, milling would not be necessary if you already have 300 mesh powder. Just mix it with powdered sugar, 65/35 (KNO3/Sugar), and ram it into your tubes.

[mike12703]

@NichroPulse i wuz also wondering if you have to powder the sugar yourself in a mill because i heard it slows down the mix if you use already store bought powdered sugar or something

[NichroPulse]

@mike12703 Nope. Store bought confectioners (powdered) sugar is pure sugar, and works very well. It's what I use. I sometimes like to mill the propellant mixture to make sure it is very homogeneous, but shaking works just fine too.

[mike12703]

@NichroPulse oh and one more question for the tube can i just make one out of paper and ram it in that then drill a nozzle

[NichroPulse]

@mike12703 Yes

[TygrFr3d]

You can see the sound delay in the beginning test : D

[mondays89]

Did you say black powder propellant? I thought black powder burned too fast to be used in rocketry. If I use strait black powder is there certain specs I need to pay attention to? Would Pyrodex work?

[NichroPulse]

@mondays89 Yes, BP is a major amateur propellant. (see my website propellants library) It has to be finely powdered and pressed hard. Pyrodex might work, ...never tired. No specific spec, just keep in mind it burns faster than my KNO3/Sugar, so no core, and a stronger tube is typical.  Also, most gun powder is smokeless, which is nitrocellulose, not BP unless it's for a BP rifle.

[mondays89]

@NichroPulse Do you think a schedule 40 PVC engine like you showed in another of your videos would be strong enough for BP?

[NichroPulse]

@mondays89 Yes, it would work very well. Check out murdoch2486 videos too. He uses these same spiral wound tubes for BP, but I would guess he really knows what he is doing because the spiral wound tubes are much weaker that convolute tubes. Even I am pushing the limits on them with sugar propellant. I have burst many with cores too long.

[mondays89]

@NichroPulse Thank you so very much for the info, You have been very very helpful.

[NichroPulse]

@mondays89 Yes, BP is a major amateur propellant. (see my website propellants library) It has to be finely powdered and pressed hard. Pyrodex might work, ...never tired. No specific spec, just keep in mind it burns faster than my KNO3/Sugar, so no core, and a stronger tube is typical. Also, most gun powder is smokeless, which is nitrocellulose, not BP unless it's for a BP rifle.

[tombillibilli]

i use a coffee grinder instead of the magic bullet blender. Works great for me.

Thanks for the info, Keep up the good work.

Im in australia, we have no access to fuses? I make fuse paper with KNO3 and filter paper but they tend to be sloppy, any better suggestions. I also make my own electric matches but they fail often. any chance of getting the schematics for a basic angry spark unit without the timer. Simple push to go.

using capacitors to store charge would save me lugging car battery

[NichroPulse]

@tombillibilli Yea, I think a coffee grinder is very similar. Reliable e-matches are easy to make with the e-match blanks you can buy. See XTRUTHDRUMSX youtube channel. As for the controller schematics, I do not release. The price right now is not much above what it costs to make them. The Angry Spark III is a very nice product for the money. $100 USD is about 2 or 3 thanks of gas? What a steal. Shipping to Australia is only about $20, so let me know :-) Thanks!

[tombillibilli]

could be the best nozzle ive seen, im having the jig made up as i write this email. Looking forward to using it.

[NichroPulse]

@tombillibilli Thanks a bunch! Good luck! I hope you have as much fun with the mold as I do.

[morganhv]

is pure Benoite clay better that cat litter?

[NichroPulse]

@morganhv It depends on what additives the kitty litter has. Some brands are almost pure bentonite. From what I have seen, they both work equally well given the right brand of litter. If you're looking for maximum performance, I recommend pure bentonite clay with added grog (crushed red clay pots) mixed with a small amount of paraffin (candle wax). Check out Skylighter's recipe on their website.

[greenfire]

Thank you for the nozzle plans!

much appreciated

[FUCKROCKBOY]

when you hit the pipe with the hammer it sounded like a x-mas song

[NichroPulse]

I was wondering if someone would notice.

[mondays89]

@NichroPulse Jingle bells jingle bells..... I noticed it too. :-)

[skyisthelimitinc]

Very nice video, you had some report headers on them?

the nozzle looked very nice, im jumping back to part one, need to see how you made that ;)

[NichroPulse]

Yes, I installed some small reports on the tops of the rockets in the end. The introduction one had a 1/4 stick.

[buckwheatrules]

Excellent tutorial,can you do a core burner with rocket candy.I made one in a 1' tube and it had so much thrust that it took off and left the stick behind.

[NichroPulse]

I have done cast candy in these tubes. They go a little higher. I'll try to get a video up soon.

[jouri7373]

how big is the nozzle?

[NichroPulse]

The nozzle is 3/4". The throat can vary depending on the propellant and core length. The throat mold sets the smallest size that one would need, about 5mm, and it can easily be reamed with a drill bit up to 6 or 7mm for faster propellants. For this 65/35 nitrate/sugar powder and a 1.3" x .112" core, I leave it at 5mm.

[buckwheatrules]

Great, I'll be kooking forward to it!!!

[AirrowRocket]

Excellent tutorial!

[murdoch2486]

What a fantastic series mate!

your innovation is outstanding, i love the way you found multiple solutions for every problem you could possibly enconuter during motor manufacture.

And thanks for the mention buddy.

5*+

[NichroPulse]

You can remove the core tool and do an end burn for BP. You may need to adjust your mix slightly. Check out some of the videos by murdoch2486. He uses the exact same tubes for BP, and does a great job.