newspaper or cardboard in gardening lasagna gardening

[Seaboojeej]

Yup. I agree. Never liked using paper, cardboard or even landscape cloth. Yuck. I go for the old hay from the outside of the round bales that the cattle and sheep won't eat. I also use leaves that have spent the winter on the ground.

[GreedIsYourGod]

What do you think of mulching with ground up rotten wood? Yeah I saw the "Huglekulture" thing so that is where i got the idea but it is obviously different because with this idea the wood is being added to the top. and in huglekulture it is way deep on the bottom

Also just how rotten would it have to be (and how can one tell?) before you can be sure it was done sucking up nitrogen and ready for the slow release phase?

[nerdmom920]

I wonder if there's a difference in the materials used to make paper and cardboard in the states as opposed to European countries. Europe can be more strict about certain chemicals than the US. I find it easier to let the weeds grow in my bed until I'm ready to plant and then I just pull or chop and drop when they are directly taking water from the plant that I want to grow.

[vutEwa]

what about the use of cardboard to eliminate weeds? what other things could be substituted for that application? I was going to put a single layer of cardboard all over my site and then multch on top. In the Greening the Desert video, Geoff said that the layering of cardboard to block the sunlight and mulch on top caused mushrooms to grow that de-salinated the soil! that's the big reason why I was going to do this. Would a single layer of cardboard block water getting through? I dont' think so.

[KanadianKain]

We are recommending cardboard for first time use only, as our mission here in the city is to create 'instant gardens for dummies'. Simplicity is key from *our* perspective (were not teaching in depth classes, we have only minutes to get into each subject in detail).

in this case, we are aiming for sustainable quantity, over quality as our quick solution to get the gardens not lawns movement going

[EKWisner]

Chop and drop sounds good, but so many weeds and so little time! I'm currently experimenting with a very small amount of cardboard or newsprint (minimal color, our local paper mostly uses soy-based inks), and a LOT of mulch or tossed soil/compost. So far, weeds are mostly easy to pull, but it's going to get harder with drier weather.

[paulwheaton12]

@EKWisner In the permaculture world, a lot of stuff other people call "weeds" are "guild plants". Therefore, fewer weeds to worry about.

[singlechopstick]

@paulwheaton what did you say at the end you rather use? I'll check on Permies.com how to control Bermuda and nut grass. I've been mulching the dickens to persuade the grass not to grow. Works when the mulch is deep. Paper and Cardboard are gross, but are convenient to start a raised bed quickly. What's the alternative?

[paulwheaton12]

@singlechopstick chop and drop. Or hay.

[kanejamison]

@paulwheaton12 Paul, I've always been told hay has seeds & will sprout, etc. How is it that you're using it as mulch without this problem?

[paulwheaton12]

@kanejamison About 5% of the hay will sprout something. And then you throw more hay on it.

[ahnamay]

I truly respect the folks who are attempting to use/reuse any and all waste from their household, but I'm with Paul. I'd rather recycle the paper into more paper products than have those glues in soil where I'm growing food.

[pac3lli]

thanks for the opinion. i think the whole idea of cardboard originated in the subtropical or tropical climate, where sheet mulching practices are useful to prevent evaporation?  I wonder if Sepp is actually using this at his temperate climate on the krameterhof, or if he is only employing this in similar tropical/subtropical consult projects? Cuz your point about trees was very well taken.

[bernie018]

so what do you use for raised beds

[paulwheaton12]

@bernie018 chop and drop. Or moldy hay.

[ECOmantiqueira]

Great to see you talking about this stuff, Paul. I belong to the minority against the use of cardboard or newspaper as well. I agree 100% with you.

[SuzyB1988]

Hard to avoid the icky stuff:(