Recent State Attempts To Pass Gay Marriage Legislation

[NuLaifMusic]

So you're saying that ME & MY PARTNER CAN'T get married and we've being together for 15 years.

But KIM KARDASHIAN CAN get married for 72 days?

[Tmartella]

you should make one on how evolution is FAKE and the world is FLAT! YAY AMURICA!

[BGarten2008]

@Tmartella God is our Almighty Creator and I know the world is round? Why bother? God Bless

[BGarten2008]

Another thing to consider is Gays serving in the military. I know a lot of men and women have lost their jobs in the past. I think in a lot of situations the military lost some vital people. However I am not totally convinced Gays serving openly will not cause problems. I can think of several scenarios where Gays may become victims. Our men and women in the service are of utmost character. However the young aggresive ones may retaliate and put Gay people in jeopardy and hurt morale. Comments?

[BGarten2008]

@neenerpuss, I do not think it is natural. However I do agree any person should be proud of who they are. They are human. They have a heavenly spirit of life. Sex is sometimes used to express love. However sex and love are seperate things. I also think you need to realize God did lay down the Law. He gave the people Ten Commandments, not nine, not eight, not seven etc. Adultery is a sin. Can you imagine the jealousy and loss of self respect women have to endure in polygamies?

[Islander255]

Also, what the fuck is this shit about it not bothering you as much with women, but two men disgust you? You realize that's because you're attracted to women. If you were a straight woman, you'd be saying, "Two men doesn't bother me as much, but something about two women really weirds me out."

There are many gay people who find your straight relationship as repulsive to think about as you find their relationship. But they don't try to vote against your rights.

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 You are correct, I am attracted to women so I used to think it was more normal for two women. Also, that is a common fantasy among men; to be with two woman. However, having grown in the spirit, I realize those kind of thoughts contribute to degrading the dignity of women. I hold myself to the standards I hold others. I would not want to degrade a woman's dignity or hamper her self respect and confidence. I realize that most women find that to be repulsive.

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 You are right. I find the thought of two men together very repulsive.

I also still struggle in the flesh at times and excuse the womanly equivelant as more "beautiful." But I would not degrade a woman of her dignity and try to persuade her into that type of situation. You also raise an interesting point. Gay people do not view their relatioships as repulsive because that is what they prefer. I can appreciate their point of view. However I know God's word to be true.

[Islander255]

@BGarten2008 True as God's word may or may not be, our civil law is not based on religion. Christians may have the moral majority in America, but imagine if they didn't. Imagine if 80% of the U.S. was Muslim. Then you, as a Christian, would understand just how important the separation of church and state is. You cannot restrict people's civil rights just because it goes against your religion. If you can vote against them, nothing will stop someone else from voting against you in the future

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 You raise a valid point. However I disagree. I think our civil law derived from our early Christian beliefs. One thing I should mention here. The acceptance of Jesus Christ as the son of God and as being God lets people base their governments on a good Christian foundation. Recognizing that Jesus Christ died for all our sins and limiting cival law to just and humane consequences.Jesus paid the price.God will be the final judge in the end. Ten Commandments should be easy to follow.

[AlexSTALKED]

@BGarten2008 Thats funny. I bet you fucking masturbate to two lesbians though. Amrite? Thought so. You people make me sick honestly, taking away right's to marry who they LOVE. That's all it is, i have no clue why you people find it so offensive for a same gender couple to join together and be happy.

[BGarten2008]

@AlexSTALKED It is people like you who ruin good discussion. Attacks on me get you nowhere. Maybe if you read the discussion you would be able to appreciate all the points of view and understand each sides opinion. My opinion stems from my deeply rooted religous beliefs and the fact I know God's word to be true. I could respond to you with a hateful attack aimed at how I might find your actions discusting and repulsive, yet I do not want to digress back to a completely emotional response.

[AlexSTALKED]

@BGarten2008 Once again religious bullshit. Well. Don't worry, when the older generation fucks off we'll move in a change a LOT of things. You'll see.

[BGarten2008]

@AlexSTALKED Nice to see how you lack respect for the older generation. Yeah, if you change everything things will get worse.

[Islander255]

So you "just think it's unnatural" and "it's just not right." You give not a single bit of evidence (not even fabricated) that marriage equality would harm society.

Basically, because your church and your parents told you it was wrong, you're willing to deny rights to an entire group of people while you get to enjoy them without having to even work for them. It costs tens of thousands of dollars for a gay couple to get just SOME of the rights you take for granted. You are a thankless bigot.

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 Im not a bigot. It is simply a religious conflict for me. I've stood up for peoples' rights all my life. Your name calling is counter productive. I realize there are a lot of gay people who have made great contributions in music and art and in recognizing the dignity of woman and oppressed people. I do not support the harsh punishments some gay people have been put through around the world. I support their right to privacy and I do not like it when they are victims of hate crimes.

[Islander255]

@BGarten2008 Okay, then. No more name-calling. Just facts. LGBT people in states that have amendments against gay marriage are significantly more likely to be depressed or attempt suicide than those who live in states where gay marriage is legal. You may think you are treating LGBT people with dignity, but by simply denying them the right of marriage, which you so freely enjoy, you are still contributing to their oppression.

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 If those are true figures (stats) that is disheartening. However that could be attributable to the demographics or local populations. LGBT people may not feel as accepted by the local populations that do not support LGBT marriage? I think a lot of communities have passed anti-hate crime legislation which may help LGBT people feel more accepted into the community. I respect their desire to be in a committed relationship. But God says it (marriage) to be between a man and a woman.

[BGarten2008]

@Islander255 Curious about the data, where is it from? This also raises more mental health questions. If the data is unbiased and accurate we might tend to believe that being denied marriage leads to an increase in depression? Maybe because without marriage the relationships are more easily broken? Therefore the more committed partner is more prone to bad depression from the failing relationship? Beyond the normal level of a temporary depression after a break up? Increase MH ED in those areas.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BGarten2008 Why are your religious beliefs (christian or otherwise) justification for the denial of civil rights? Is there a reason why you do not feel the government should be able to marry same sex couples while your church reserves its ceremonies for those of opposite sex? Perhaps you could explain why you feel that with regard to this particular topic we should have religious laws (which I believe to be unconstitutional under the first amendment) in this country.

[agent1up]

man what the fuck are you saying?

[agent1up]

8 minutes of psycho talk...

[Clemburke1111]

Well if your spokesperson " Carrie Prejean would stay out of Porn, we would have more respect for your veiws.

[BellaGartenLLC]

@Clemburke1111 Carrie Prejean has a right to Freedom Of Speech. Just as you and I do. NOTE: The recent death of the young college student who's roommates posted on the internet was a tragedy. They did invade his privacy. That was a cruel thing to do regardless of beliefs. He was an unwilling victim.

[Clemburke1111]

@BellaGartenLLC Carrie Prejean has the right to freedom of speech, but as always freedom of speech comes with consequences.

[neenerpuss]

@BellaGartenLLC Just like gay couples are the unwilling victims of hate and bigotry. Trying to deny gays their right to sign a LEGAL CONTRACT that is a marriage license. The government want to pry into our lives. Strange how the "teabaggers" want smaller government for themselves but wants to regulate the private relationships of gay couples.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC When Carie Prejean was in the news I do not believe her first amendment rights were ever in question - though some have tried to claim such. Having the freedom of speech is not the same thing as having a freedom from criticism when you exercise that right to free speech.

[BGarten2008]

@SpeedyBruin Yes we do live in a Democracy. However most attacks were initiated from gay people with some hatred or politically motivated in nature. People with opposing views. All people have a right to Freedom of Speech. However, they may want to consider opposing views and be a little nicer? I realize tensions and tempers can flare.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BGarten2008 I'm sorry. Could you clarify what you mean when you say 'most attacks were initiated from gay people'?

[BGarten2008]

@SpeedyBruin Initially one of Carrie's judges blogged about her and called her names. He is well known as being gay. There are also a lot of remarks that appear to be from gay people under the many videos which Carrie has appeared on the same subject matter. I do not have concrete statistics, just observations.

I wonder how many gay marriage supporters are just standing up for gays not to be oppressed? Some may develop a different opinion if they dive deeper or are forced to clarify positions?

[SpeedyBruin]

@BGarten2008 I might point out that this blogger (Perez) is not an ambassador of gay people. There was a great deal of what I consider to be fair criticism of Miss. Prejeans statements and actions during and after that pageant. However, I myself do not think highly of Perez. If you'd like I could elaborate on what I feel the fair criticism of her is.

If I follow your logic would I be right to hold all Christians accountable for the actions of the west borrow baptist church?

[BGarten2008]

Equal protection is for our Citezines under the Constitution. It is based on freedom and justice to keep a balance of power. It has nothing to do with sexual preferences. You are protected from race, religion,gender, familial status, and age discrimination. Anyone can be named a beneficiary in policies and in wills. Marriage is a bonding of souls before God with the blessings of God. Therefore it should be reserved for the bonding of a man and women. Anything else is unnatural.

[neenerpuss]

@BGarten2008 All of that paper work is approx. $50,000 to secure a FRACTION of what a $50 marriage license takes care of.

That's NOT equality under the law!!!

It has been documented that 1500 different species of animals have homosexual members and form pair bonds. THAT makes it natural. Not a majority but no less natural than heterosexuality.

[BGarten2008]

@neenerpuss There are things like pre-paid legal that do inexpensive wills. About 20 dollars a month or so. Some will even prepare a Will FREE. I am not sure where that 50,000 dollar figure originates. I guess someone tried to put a legal price tag on every possible marriage benefit? Animals are not human, nor are plants. There are different kinds of reproduction. Homosexuality is not reproduction. Good effort but not really an argument.

[SpeedyBruin]

In our constitution we are guaranteed equal protection and due process under the law. Being able to get some (very far from all) of the protections of marriage through costly legal procedures that are quick, simple, and free to married couples is not equality. The notion that civil marriage and religious marriage are the same thing is something I do not buy into. We have a separation in this country.

[SpeedyBruin]

Speaking very specifically what evidence is there to suggest that extending marriage protections and benefits to same sex couples damage society in any way?

[BellaGartenLLC]

@SpeedyBruin Another intelligent question once again. I love the way you draw out critical thought. I think marriage between same sex couples is an unnatural deviation from the intentions of Our Father in Heaven. Therefore I think it contributes to the erosion of morality. I think it damages the very fabric of our society. Likewise consider marijuana use among people. If it were more socially acceptable and legal it would lead to the use of stronger more potent drugs.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC Firstly, thank you for your civility. I think we can all appreciate this when the discussion of this topic is often so heated.

I believe we define the word 'natural' differently. If we were to define it, as believe you are, as an adjective for that which is in accordance with mainstream Christian teaching then I suppose homosexuality is unnatural. However, if we were to define it to mean that which exists or is formed spontaneously in nature, as I do, I would disagree.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC In the historical record there are many examples of homosexuality that span time, culture, and region that suggests that, under the more common usage of the word, homosexuality is naturally occurring.

Secondly, when you state your belief that gay and lesbian men and women contribute to some kind of moral 'erosion' could you please specify? What is a consequence of tolerance of gay and lesbian people that we can look at objectively - rather than with unsupported speculation?

[BellaGartenLLC]

@SpeedyBruin Similiarly, the more we accept same sex marriage as "normal" the more we tell our children homosexuality is normal. I think it is a variant from the normal sexual behavior intended by God. Therefore I think it would have a negative impact on children in the future. I think children need role models who reflect the the will of our founding fathers. They sailed the oceans, fought the battles, and tamed the land for religous freedom. Their belief in God and God's will made us today

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC There have been several studies of the children of same sex parents. None of these has shown any negative outcome for these children. To date I'm unaware of any research whatsoever to the contrary. Our nations major health organizations agree that this is the case. As far as religious freedom is concerned, would you consider it such when a minority group is relegated to an inferior legal status on the basis of a majority religious opinion with no secular basis?

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC On the contrary I would argue that this is what is seen in theocracies. In fact, using religion alone as the basis for the creation of law is the defining characteristic of a theocracy.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC On a bit of a tangent I would additionally like to point out that our founding fathers held some beliefs quite outside of those which comprise mainstream Christian teaching. The most famous example might be Thomas Jefferson's republication of his own edited bible, which removed all of the supernatural events that take place in the text. He was not alone in holding beliefs significantly different from those you might hold.

[neenerpuss]

@BellaGartenLLC Homosexuality is NORMAL! It occurs in nature. 1500 different species of animals have homosexual members and form pair bonds. That makes it NORMAL!

Religious freedom is also freedom FROM religion!

Gay children need role models too! Being gay is nothing to be ashamed of. It is something to be proud of. To stand up and be strong in who you are.

[BellaGartenLLC]

@SpeedyBruin I respect your point of view. However I stand firm in my beliefs. Thank you for challenging the thoughts of viewers.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC Thank you for saying so Bella. I apologize for my long-windedness in responding, but 500 characters sometimes seems too little. I think what I ultimately am looking for is a concrete, specific, objective, and logical negative consequence of extending marriage rights to same sex couples. You cite negative consequences for children and society, but only in the most nebulous of terms without support. That being said I hope you don't take anything I've typed as argumentative.

[SpeedyBruin]

@BellaGartenLLC I wish you well though we seem to disagree on this topic, which is extremely important to me and it would appear to you as well.

[mgoss85]

youre a moron.

[fanagot]

You're worring too much about things that are in your mind. Many people also thought and some people still think interracial marriages are awkward and unnatural and wrong, but time and reason have always been on the side of interracial couples. Opinions such as these are always destined to confront reality.

[BellaGartenLLC]

@fanagot Your statement seems to imply race as in differences in skin color. Don't pull the race card to make your point. Skin color is a seperate issue from gender. There are people from many races with many skin colors that believe in God. There are homosexual people who believe in God too. There are homosexual people who believe marriage is between a man and a woman. That is also a reality.

[fanagot]

@BellaGartenLLC

My statement is about inter-race. It can be skin color or ethnicity, etc. It doesn't matter. The people who think they have the right to prohibit gay couples from enjoying their civil rights use the same old arguments that were used by racists, and other bigots thru the ages.

[neenerpuss]

A Marriage is CONTRACT! Equal protections MUST be applied. There are 1138 rights that are associated with marriage. None of them are religious! Marriage is a LEGAL institution of the STATE. You can have a Marriage without religion...You can NOT have a Marriage without the STATE. The confusion come in when the church has blessed the marriage contract. People are confused. Please take the time to educate yourself on what marriage is. It is NOT just a piece of paper.

MARRIAGE EQUALITY FOR ALL!

[BellaGartenLLC]

@neenerpuss I see your point of view as relative to marriage alone. However I think it depends on how you define marriage. This is where we differ. God defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Then the STATE just grants legal recognition. Please read Matthew 19:4 and 19:5. Then you will respect my position.

[Clemburke1111]

@BellaGartenLLC Carrie Prejean needs to think about speaking on the topic of morality when she is fingering her self on film.

[neenerpuss]

@BellaGartenLLC Biblical or "Traditional" marriage was between 1 man and as many women as he could support.

1 Corintians 7:6-9 ,

Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should MARRY. For it is better to MARRY than to burn with passion.