How about Isaiah 2:16 The Greek (septuagent) has "ships of the sea". The Hebrew "ships of Tarshish." The Book of Mormon has both, showing that the brass plates had lot neither phrase. Please explain that?
@Sk8er408 but the scriptures are the road manual to make sure you get the right understanding of the true nature of God.you seek Jesus and you receive the spirit..
@Sk8er408 well its a stupid statement if god says something throughout history it has to be written down otherwise its just rumor or hearsay and the message gets distorted.
yeah i have anger issues,whats the fuck is your point?
you said paper and ink werent needed,so you are implying what?? scriptures be on cd rom?
Be the first in your Stake to own "Reformed Egyptians For Dummies!!" You'll be the envy of your Ward!!
Your "Reformed Egyptian For Dummies" kit includes a new off-gassing hat, your very own set of magic rocks, and a shiny set of electroplated gold tablets!!
This is simply false. We do not have the "original" texts of any of the new or old testament. We only have copies of copies, the oldest is some scraps (not complete) from the 1st Cen.
There are 1000s of errors, mistakes, and most importantly, additions to texts from older texts. This is absolutely provable.
The other false statement is that translations are accurate, old Greek, to old Latin, to Spanish, to French, to German, to old English, to modern English.
@ManchuDan22 Actually, we have roughly 5,300 New Testament manuscripts alone (if you want, I can cite my information). Are there really 1000s of errors? There is nothing wrong with adding to a text as long as it does not take away from the message or the context. But I am interested to know how you can prove this so please share. As for your 3rd statement, it seems if all the translators are getting it wrong it would be impossible for JS to get it right with a 3rd grade education. Cognitive bias
@willeilers1 Yes, and all of those 5300 (a larger # than I've seen) are copies. Not all are full manuscripts, most are scraps or parts of the NT. We do not have the Q or Source Doc to validate the writings. Profs Metzger and Ehrman point to 1000s of errors in the Translations, many are just grammar or spelling mistakes, but some are big
The Bible is "Reveled Truth", God's Word, supernatural. You're saying that anyone can make changes to God's Word and that's OK?
@ManchuDan22 The Dead sea Scrolls confirm much of the Old Testament and fully confirm the book of Isaiah. Obviously not all are full manuscripts but the Jewish scribes and the translators of today have been very careful to preserve the authenticity of these documents. If this is not true then we have all been reading the wrong books! The BoM is no exception. I did not say that anyone to make changes to God's word. Why on earth would that be ok?
@ManchuDan22 When you are translating a Bible from one language to another, say from Greek to English, obviously some of the words and their meanings are not going to match up perfectly. It's up to the translator to do the best they can to translate the meaning of the original text to the new one. It doesn't necessarily need to be the exact same wording but it should be as close as you can get.
@willeilers1 Yes,mistakes occur. That's the point, saying the bible has supernatural authority? 1st, not even written in the language the events occurred in; then Greek to Latin to Spanish to German to English, hand-written mistakes pile up.
Scribes often writing what they thought was correct, but adding things that made sense to THEM.
We don't have originals, so we DON'T know what was 1st said, we DON'T know who wrote the bible. How can anyone talk about a "god" doing this messy thing?
@willeilers1 Glad to entertain, now return the favor. Explain to me why you believe in god.
Show me the loving god that lets kids be murdered?
Show me the caring god that lets 100,000s killed by nature?
Show me the just god that lets torture and war be done in his name?
Your profile says you're a preacher, why? Do you fear death so much that you need protection from it? Do you fear your own life so much that you "give it to Christ' to duck responsibility?
@ManchuDan22 Well my explanation would be that these things happen because sin entered the world when Adam & Eve sinned... but that's probably not the kind of explanation you're looking for. I am a pastor because when I was in my deepest darkest hour, I didn't find God. God found me. He picked me up and he showed me that this is just the beginning of the race. I have no fear of my life and I take full responsibility for all I do.Do you think it takes more courage to be a believer or an atheist?
@willeilers1 If god made the world did he not make sin? Then isn't sin part of his plan? Then sin "entered the world" because god wanted it there. (it's such a silly argument)
Not to rude, but doesn't it seem a bit self-centered that god personally touched you, for your personal benefit, when so many other people live and die in misery? Why doesn't he help them?
I believe the correct question is; Atheist/Faithful; who is more honest? "courage" is not a word to measure truth or fact.
@ManchuDan22 The reason sin entered the world is because God gave us the freedom to make our own choices. It's our own fault our world sucks, not God's. God did not touch me for my personal benefit. He touched me so that I could reach out to others. I don't claim to have all the answers but I know that God allows sin to continue in order to test people. He wants to see if they will catch on and eventually realize that they need him for salvation and that they can't do it on their own.
@willeilers1 I certainly applaud and respect you for helping others, it is one of humanity's greatest traits; our solidarity with each other. BUT we have that quality hard-wired into us through 1000s of years of evolution, it's how we survived. We don't need a mythical god to "give" us what we already have. It is "surplus to requirements"
AND by using a invisible father figure as a crutch to lean on, you minimize us. You say we aren't able to raise OURSELVES up, defining us as eternal children
@ManchuDan22 I think it's very possible that God used evolution as a tool to create us as we are today. You cannot possibly take everything in this world and say it all happened by random chance. It's to complicated. Again, I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think God has a bigger part to play in this then you or I realize.
@willeilers1 You have been listening too much to the creationist silliness. There is NOTHING RANDOM about evolution. It is a very specific PROCESS. AND it is also very pitiless as many species disappear based on it's process. 95% of all species ever on Earth have gone away, do you think "GOD Designed" such a wasteful process?
The Blind Watchmaker; Richard Dawkins is a well written explanation of how and why the world is the way it is. The earth is over 4 Billlions years old, MUCH happened
@ManchuDan22 Again, this is why it is pointless for us to be arguing. You are so set in your ways that you won't even consider the other side of the coin. And again, I don't deny the things you are saying. In fact, I believe that they are the processes God used to make us humans what we are today. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis is a very well written book that I think would be a great resource for you as Lewis was once an Atheist himself. Check it out.
@ManchuDan22 If science is so smart, do we know who all those common ancestors are? I'm not saying science is unreliable but come on, they should at least be able to give us that if they're going to say that's where we came from. I believe these things not because I show up to church every Sunday but because I study, I read, and I do my own research from sources that are not religiously biased to find answers.
@ManchuDan22 I have read The Blind Watchmaker and I wasn't too terribly impressed finding that I could break down many of Dawkins arguments with simple logic, not science. He said in his book ... we have no intuitive grasp of the immensities of time available for evolutionary change. But we can demonstrate that his argument of time is irrelevant. The shortness or longevity of time simply does not apply. It never has and it never will since time is linear. See? Simple logic.
@ManchuDan22 But as for your second statement, you are right. I do lean on God. Is that so wrong? do you not also lean on the things you believe in? Mankind is making progress in many areas, all the time. That's how God designed us to be. To be thinkers and progress to new knowledge and skills. If we came from monkeys... why are there still monkeys? In this world we can raise ourselves up as much as we want. But we cannot possibly get into heaven without Jesus.
@willeilers1 We return to the question of fact. What you "lean on" is non-existent, unproven and man-made myth. So what you REALLY lean on is yourself and other people, why not give THEM credit? Why be so miserly with your thanks? Give it to those who deserve it, not some absent god
We DID NOT COME FROM MONKEYS, no more than dogs CAME from wolves (which is why ALL still exist) we evolved from a COMMON ancestor which both species branched off from and then continued to evolve on new branches
I have to say these comments back and forth btwn you 2 are kind of funny because it doesn't sound spiteful, just mutually annoyed/respectful, while also going nowhere haha. "If science is so smart..." that's a brilliant way to start off any counterpoint eh? Everything by nature follows a specific process and design, simple as that. if anything is random it's the very beginning of mass itself, oh laws of thermo. keep God out of nerd talks, I'm sure He has a better counter than all of us
So god, the almighty, the all knowing, the creator of the universe, make an imperfect world?? The all-loving, all-caring, "has a wonderful plan for us' screwed-up??
Did his hand slip on the magic wand when HE made EVIL, did he screw that up or did god intend to create all the horror in the world??
Gee, if he failed to create a perfect world, then why is he god? If he can't get it right then why do we worship a failed god?
@ManchuDan22 God did not screw up. WE DID. Who said he even had to create a perfect world in the first place? My ministry is not for people like you who are so blinded by ignorance they cannot see the clear evidence that God has laid out before them. My ministry reaches out to the lost and those who are searching for something greater. You automatically assume that God sucks bc the world sucks. Classic if, then fallacy. As an atheist, you ought to know that.
@ManchuDan22 nobody controls me,im not catholic,i dont follow a pope.i can do whatever i want,i can go shoot heroin tommarow if i want.but i wont because the i have the wisdom of the bible to remind me of path to destruction.
@ManchuDan22 doesnt matter if there are errors main pillars are there which is all that matters.prophecy of jesus,jesus birth,rising from the dead,wiping out religious law, establishing the law at same time.
everyone knows the bible has grammatical errors,duh doesn't matter main essence of story is there.
@lilbeaveymac Really? So the Bible is NOT the perfect word of God? If that is true, then on what basis does the Bible have any authority? If it is not "Supernatural", then it is JUST A BOOK written by men; men who didn't even witness the events, written in a different language than was spoken then.
"main essence of story"??? We have NO idea of the stories truth or facts! And you base your life on the this fable? and people DIE over this vague myth?
It took me a second to see the direction this video was taking. I was curious to see Living Hope Ministries web-site. It appears they administer a sort of detox for LDS patrons with an injection of historical research & some rational thinking. Only, Living Hope Ministries should expound their inquisitiveness of truth finding and go one more step further. The truth sometimes may not be warm, but the truth is the truth.
@21121309 I know. Why can't these Xians turn these same sound concepts on their own holy books? It's called cognitive bias. Faith is a glass ceiling...
Nothing has been removed from the bible? what about at the council fo Nicaea?
You won't see a mistake from one and no mistake on the other fifty because there was no other fifty.
The Dead Sea scrolls agree more with Mormon belief than Jewish or any other.
The bibles of christians in the roman empire agreed with the bible of christians outside the empire? LOL Oh really? The Romans completely changed christianity to suit there needs.
@someguycalledshelnut thanks for driving me out. just the same, i thank God for this occasion to correct your wrong knowledge that the Council of Nicea had altered the bible. It never did.
Nicea talked about the Arian heresy, date of easter, and some church regulations.
the bible was never a topic in that Council. Dan Brown, in his dreams, thought it was.
The church only seems to change their beliefs (like the limited geography theory of the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, location of Hill Cumorah, American Indians are the principle ancestors of the Lamanites, etc.) when contradictory evidence disproves their recorded history. This seems inconsistent with a church run by modern-day prophets with modern revelation.
In an effort to unify the Christians, one official Bible was put together, but only those writings that fit with a certain school of thought were included. The many writings that disagreed with that school of thought were not included, presenting an inaccurate representation of Jesus (as), his nature, his teachings, and his mission.
Even if the manuscripts were identical to the originals (which they are not), the originals are still NOT the Word of God, not the revelation as it was given to Jesus (as). The New Testament is a compilation of writings written by men who never met Jesus (as). When the Bible was compiled, there were many many writings and texts floating around among the early Christians.
I'd just like to make note of the scripture presented in this video clip: 1 Nephi 13:26.
He makes a point, Line 26 does say things were taken away.
He ignores 24 which says the book was spoken rightly from the mouth of the Jew...Jesus.
The scripture doesn't say that the bible was changed by the Jews...it implies that the great masses, who did not know or understand the fullness of the gospel, lost its complete meaning.
Think of slaughters where killers justify murder by doctrine.
The scriptures state that there will be a falling away first. I guess that the LDS have a valid scriptural reason for understanding that there was a predicted falling away. Apparently these guys at oxford dont know how to do their research very well.
This video makes false claims. Jesus refers to scriptures such as enoch coming with 10 thousands of his saints that is no longer found in the official scriptures. So yes, we have evidence that things were removed from the scriptures.
Speaking from a strictly historical perspective, we know beyond any reasonable doubt that the Christian faith was never "lost" and didn't need "restoring". The Reformation simply retained the key doctrines of the historic faith and emphasized grace. Mormonism was an entirely new, heretofore unknown religion, albeit containing elements of many previous known religious faiths. Just keepin' it real.
But the problem is doctrines were distorted and many churches have different sets of doctrines. But God is not the God of confusion. There is only one Gospel. One set of true doctinre, that's why God called Joseph Smith as a modern prophet and commissioned him to translate the gold plates into the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the word of God and it truely goes hand in hand with the Bible. I read them both daily and they do testify the truthfulness of each other.
There's an awful lot of books written that to some extent complies with the Bible... Most are presented as commentary and not as additions to the gospel. If ideas in C.S. Lewis' books on christianity, that a lot of Mormons like, were presented as new doctrine, you could say the same thing about them. That's the problem for many with Mormonism. As long as it feels good, it's true. Be careful with that.
to amandacalofornia---God is the interpreater thru Holy Spirit. Look at whole chapter of John 3 in its own context. It is about faith in Jesus Christ to be born again. Right divide the word of truth. There is no salvation in another name but the name of Jesus by faith with true heart of repenetance from dead works to living God.
So what are you saying, is that your interpretation of the Bible alone is through the Holy Spirit and no one else's?
I have read the entirety of John 3 as well as all of the Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles. Interpreting that passage as the sacrament of baptism, and its symbolic rebirth in Christ, is totally legitimate. "No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of WATER and the Spirit." John 3:5
There are plenty of Bible things to criticize Mormonism about, but not that.
You still misinterpret this verse just like the Catholicism and other cults who misuse this verse for salvation by baptism as "good works". Look at verse 4 and 6. Born of water means physical birth as you are born from your mother's womb in water. Ever seen mothers give birth underwater? Verse 5 which cults defend does not apply to verse 4 and 6 as physivcal birth. It is a famous twisted verse by cults. Beware as misinterpretaion is the master work of Satan to damn souls by deception!
What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody is talking about "good works." And stop telling me to look at it again. I'VE READ IT. It's not been "misused" by anyone. Why don't YOU read through Acts, it clearly has the apostles BAPTIZING all believers. Not just saying some stupid "Sinner's Prayer."
And by the way, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Mt 7:21.
And Catholicism is not a cult you stupid douche. Just because someone doesn't agree with YOUR interpretation of the Bible it doesn't make them wrong.
They are RIGHT in teaching that you can't just go around sinning your brains out and expect to have grace, as YOUR church would do well to learn. If you TRULY have faith in Jesus Christ, you will want to live after him. Read Lk 6:46-49, Romans 6:1-3, Romans 6:15-16. Salvation is through faith, but good works will follow those who truly have it.
"13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God." Rom 8
And concerning baptism=born again in Holy Spirit:
"'Brothers, what should we do?' Peter said to them, 'Repent, and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will RECEIVE the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT." Acts 2:37,38
BofM TEXT QUESTION: If the letters were called out one by one and carefully written down and then pronounced, WHY IS THE ORIGINAL TEXT IN LONG HAND CURSIVE HANDWRITTING???? Just curious
Thanks so much for posting and for all the comments! Ancient and Modern Prophets have taught me that there would be people just like you doing things just like this! Thanks again for strengthening my beleifs. Love you.
hahahahaha guy ckaims that nephi says that things have been taken away from the "gospels" he tries to make it seem that bom means the 4 books gospels, how stupid is that. nephi says that parts were taken away from the gospel of the lamb, meaning the core doctrines and teachings, not a damn books of matthew or John. PHD scholar should know this unless he want's to really deceive knowingly.
Mormonism is an evil. The Bible is the complete word of God. Joseph Smith was a pervert and his followers are reprobate. COLDS needs to repent and put their trust in Jesus, the one and only living Son of God. The Bible was not "translated into several languages" resulting in misconceptions. This video is simply erroneous. If you are Mormon, REPENT.
Why are you all not acknowledging and using the truly world class scholar Emanuel Tov's "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible," which truly refutes these claims made in this film clip? And why are you apparently so very unaware of McDonald and Sanders astonishing text "The Canon Debate"? This certainly is different than what this film clip presents. Not all is as well on the front as this pretends when it comes to the Bible.
And the truth is that The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is the true and restored church of Christ in this last days, with divine authority from God to perform saving ordinances, fulness of the everlasting gospel, living prophet and apostles who continue to receive divine revelation from God. Those are the truth that any philosophical, genius and man-made theories cannot change.
Boy isn't religion ever a pointless subject, just believe what you want to believe and shut up! Religious subjects cause certain flaming and then hurt can we just stop the 'false' label already! And the 'liar' label is really tiring hope you know! Christians are hurt about being bashed, Mormons are also hurt about being flamed and called 'liars, false and heretics', I also believe Jews are tired of the hate they get! Let's just shut the subject and be at peace with ourselves ok? Good!
We converse about religion because we care about each other. If we didn't want to discuss it then we have the freedom not too. When God is your everything, nothing is more pleasing than being in his presence every second of every day.
Only one true creator exsists, one true lord, only one religion that is remotely believable,,,,,,ymmmmmmmmm ymmmmmmmm all praise the flying spaghetti monster,,,, Peace and meatballs to everone.
The internal evidence indicates that this book was written by an individual who received no new revelations from God, but rather compiled a book that presents a partial and misleading collage of biblical concepts and a mosaic of scriptural words and phrases mixed with false information.
ARM, I disagree completely with you claim, internal evidence indicates The Book of Morman is an ancient document written by several different authors. The Book of Mormon testifies of and invites all to "come unto Christ". Careful prayerful reading affirms this through the Holy Ghost.
I disagree with you there. I've read the Book of Mormon four times and each time I put Moroni's challenge to the test and each time I failed to get the burning in the bosom, hence the Religion is false. Simple. Sorry you were mistaken if you felt a burning in your bosom, it's cool, we're all human.
Yes indeed we are all human, that does not however make the Book of Mormon untrue or the Church false. The internal evidence stands, the BOM is from an ancient manuscript and invites "all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him" I did as Moroni challenged as well as millions world wide. We disagree with you. Try with real intent and a humble heart, searching for the truth. I know the Book of Mormon is truly from God to us, His children.
Funny thing about Moroni's challenge is that if you don't get the burning in your bosom, you must have done something wrong or weren't sincere enough. That's not really a challenge. This "challenge" is a gimmick. What about other faiths that claim they have the truth and if your pray about it you'll recieve an anwer AND people pray and feel the holy ghost but it's not Mormonism their praying about (the one true church)explain that
The book of Mormon cannot testify to its own authenticity by claiming that it is an ancient document ipso facto. On a theological point, I find it interesting that you quote Moroni 10:32 "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you." Talk about a confusion of works and grace! Go read Galatians.
Read carefully, the Holy Ghost is the one who testifies after we have faith in Christ and have read the Book carefully and asked God with real intent. The testimony of the authenticity of the BOM is from the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the gift of God to all those who diligently seek Him. 1 Ne 10:17We are saved by grace after all we can do 2 Nephi 25:23 I know by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true and that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer. Amen
1 nephi 10:17 directly contradicts Romans 3:10-13 and the psalms passage Paul is quoting. 2 Nephi 25:23 contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 (it is not AFTER all we can do,but rather before we can even begin!) Also Rom. 5:6. I still don't understand the challenge, are you saying that one has to already have faith in Christ before the holy spirit testifies to us? That contradicts 2 Cor. 12:3 .And are you suggesting one has to WANT the book of Mormon to be true before recieving an inner testimony?
2 things: 2 Cor. 11:14 states that Satan can decieve by "masquerading as an angel of light." Also Gal 1:6-8 states "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" You must take additions to the scriptures seriously, particularly ones claiming a "restoration" that contradict the teachings of the NT. If it is not grace alone by Faith alone in Christ alone apart from our works, then it is of Satan.
Run the race to the end to receive the crown, fight the good fight. Why race, why fight if the race and fight is won? Mormons haven't got much right but the need for works to prove faith is one of the few (and the greatest of these is love - of faith, hope and love). They, at least, share this in common with the Churches which gave you the Bible (Catholicism and Orthodoxy).
Estaban, do you suggest that we contribute to Christ's sacrifice? Rome and the LDS actually have very different views on this. Of course faith is active in love, but it is a response to the fullness of salvation won on the cross. Never get the two confused. Moroni 10:32 would be anathematized by Rome, because it puts law before gospel. At least Rome is only semi-Pelagius, LDS is downright legalism. By the way, I am on the side of Augustine in the Pelagian controversy. Thats the church I reside.
Its a simple question really: What is grace? is it something that is given only after we have rid ourselves of all ungodliness? Is it something that saves us after all we can do on our own? or is it what scripture teaches: that which saves us on account of Christ alone and renews and transforms a sinner into a regenerated man responding in kind to neighbor while worshiping and thanking God. I think we can agree on this at least.
Please please please research Mormonism from an outside perspective. It will be very difficult for anyone in any religion to step back and take a look. Why do they call it a cult, why is it so new, why can't they find any cities, any artifacts, steel, archeology, agriculture, why the racism, why masonic roots, why polygamy, why blood omens, why secrets, why the occult, why does it contradict the Bible, why false prophecies, why so many excuses. A flag should raise.
"Christ is the author and finisher of salvation." Mathew 27:51 the veil was torn. This signifies our ability to seek God personally. Hebrews 9 explains salvation through Christ. Prophets were important until JESUS made the final sacrifice. There was no need for future prophets. Namely, "Joseph" who contaminated the perfect word of Christ with contradictory scriptures.
This video is a bold face lie. They have found texts that are completly differnt than what we have now, i.e the gos. of Judas was just found and tells a differnt story than whats in the bible today. Also the dead sea scrolls, have major differences compared to the bibles before they were found.
This video is accurate, and I wish everyone would spend time investigating their belief systems before making opinions based on word of mouth. There is absolutely no reason to put your faith in Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ never left room for anyone outside of him for salvation.
So, by that reasoning, we can get to Jesus while denying the prophets, like Abraham and Moses, etc.? Then why would GOD choose prophets if we can still go to heaven by denying them? That makes no sense whatsoever.
That is not Biblical! You are choosing to believe that but it is not biblical in any way. Why choose apostles after his death who received revelation if what you just said was true?
There's a reason the Bible ended when it did. When he was on the cross, he said "it is finished" The veil to the temple was torn representing the ability for us to have direct contact with God. Prophets were no longer needed and apostles were there to spread the gospel. God speaks to ALL of us who will listen. We can all have revelations but they must coincide with the Bible. There is no need to add anything because its already there.
Yes, but you CANNOT deny the prophets and accept the Savior in the same breath. You can't bipass all the words of the prophets and get to God on your own. Amos 3:7. A Teacher, yes, but much more than just that.
If you think that the Bible contains every book or dissertation ever written by an apostle, prophet or Christ himself please take you head out of the sand. I can list numerous books mentioned in the Bible that are not contained in it, are they not important? Who decided to leave them out?
The Bible does mention other books but those books were not meant to be a part of Gods Word. They were meant for historical reasons only. "Divine Inspiration" is how the Bible was formed. If the creator of the universe can't author a perfect book then there would be no point in believing in him. With one word he created and with one breath he gave life.
The BIBLE was compiled and then voted on by men, not Prophets. What proof do you have that "divine inspiration" is how it was formed? You can testify of indivudual books in the BIBLE, but testifying of how it was formed is inaccurate. GOD is not the author of the BIBLE... That is FALSE. It is also not a perfect book either.
Oh, but it is perfect. God reveals himself to those who truly seek him. It is the living, breathing word of the creator. He knows every hair on your head, how then can he not inspire a book. The men who voted on it were filled with the Holy Spirit. Joseph Smith seemed to be filled with hormones and greed.
You need to better research the history of the early church, as well as the compilation of the Bible. God inspires prophets, not books. Your faith should be based on truth through the Holy Ghost regardless of it being found in the BIBLE or not. God never asked us to verify truth with the BIBLE, but with the Holy Ghost.
John5:39"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Jesus believed in the scriptures. He quoted them often.
2 Peter 2-1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
If there are false prophets, there must of necessity be true prophets. You, I would surmise, don't believe that there are any true ones, claiming any and all from post-biblical times to be false.
Lastly, the Book of Mormon in no ways denies teh Lord.
The need for prophets died when christ did. The veil was torn (Matthew 27:51) giving everyone the ability to speak directly to God. The mormon Jesus was a polygamist and the father(God)was incestuous with Mary his daughter. This is not the same God, Jesus or Mary of the Bible. If you read mormon doctorine it has no resemblence to the God of the Bible. If you want to know where to find any of this information I would love to help you. God Bless!!
Then why didn't Peter just come out and explicitly say that there are no more prophets? The Bible never says prophets no longer existed after Christ, in fact, it says the opposite. Christ set up his own church with "prophets" in it (Ephesians 4:11). Prophecy and revelation came after Christ through his prophets/apostles.
Lastly your logic is flawed in making conclusions about Mormon doctrine by comparing it to what is in the Bible.
I only believe the Bible, its prophets and all thats included therein. I believe that it is the inspired word of God. I believe that Joseph Smith has corrupted the truth and has lied about his revelations, as well as all other mormon prophets. I also believe that the books of the apocrypha were not meant to be a part of the Bible. One God!!!
one God? then there should be one faith, and one baptism as ephesians 4 says!!!!!! its that the catholic church took the ordinance of baptism (plus every other one) and changed it cause they hadn't any prophet or priesthood to teach as God intended. in greek baptism means submerge in water but that was changed. the book of mormon stats that these ordinances were changed and things were left out. thats true. God will tell you its true
Sorry glycoboy, I asked Him - he didn't tell me that the BOM is true. DNA, anthropology, linguistics and archaeology all seem to say the BOM is a crock! Head out of sand time - get your tithes back and seek the truth elsewhere - Joe wanted money, women and power - like the other post-Jesus 'prophet' mohammed. Jesus was enough - no later 'prophet' required.
If there are false prophets, there must of necessity be true prophets. You, I would surmise, don't believe that there are any true ones, claiming any and all from post-biblical times to be false.
Lastly, the Book of Mormon in no way denies the Lord.
How is it that you get to decide what is or what is not meant to be part of GOD's word? Has God said he would speak no more? Has he said there is nothing more out there that he has spoken? Too many Christians speak for GOD and make claims about the BIBLE that THE BIBLE DOES NOT MAKE FOR ITSELF. That is problematic.
If you cannot test doctorines by Biblical scripture, then its not of God. God speaks to all of us but Satan can as well. How do we know if its God speaking? We test it with the Bible. The Bible warns us many times about false prophets and tells us to test everything. Joseph Smith taught we can become gods. God has made it clear that he is the one and only. Hebrews 13:8 God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He doesen't change.
When did Jesus teach that? He never taught that. Nor did he write the bible. You are erring when you rely solely on the bible for truth. It doesn't contain everything, nor does it claim to. You are stating things about the bible that it doesn't say for itself. Mormonism follows Christ, bottom line.
Why do Mormons always go back to trashing the Bible to support their claims? Even if the Bible is corrupted or incorrect somehow, that doesn't PROVE the BOM is true. And if the Bible is so full of errors, that just adds to Mormonism's problems doesn't it?
The Bible is perfect, its message is perfect. The only problem is in the reader. God is far too powerful and beyond our understanding to make mistakes. The book of mormon was given by Joseph Smith. First you have polygamy is wrong in the book of mormon, then its commanded in d&c. Then the books of Abraham and Moses give the creation story one as plural and one as singular. It makes God out to be some kind of perverted, confused, idiot. If thats not heretical I don't know what is.
Again, GOD didn't write the BIBLE. Polygamy was accepted in the Old Testament, and then abolished in the New Testament. It's offensive of you to say that "it makes God out to be some kind of perverted, confused, idiot." I think you are mistaken about how you perceive Mormonism. I recommend you, and any one else, to read it, pray about it, and stop trusting in what you hear or read about Mormons.
One thing that I could never, ever, ever believe is that a man can become a God. Isaiah among many other biblical scriptures is very clear on one point. "ONE GOD" We can become one with God but not a seperate deity. The Bible says we will not be given in marriage once we get to heaven. If it were not so Jesus would have told us. I believe in him not Joseph. By grace we are saved, not by works.
Why is that so hard to believe? Christ commanded us to be like Him, and He is a GOD. We'll never be superior to God the Father, or God the Son, but we can indeed be like them, else why would they command it? They would in turn be liars if it were not possible to be like them. Jesus came to this earth to save us, and allow us to progress to immortality and eternal life. Is that not in some measure Godhood?
Does that mean that God the father can never be superior to his father and he to his father? Do you mean that we can be equal to God? The Bible says no man is perfect, no not one. Jesus spilled his blood to wash away our sins in the sight of his father. HE was the sacrificial lamb. Only through him we can be saved, not through our own ability. He is in us and we in him, only in that respect can we attain salvation but never godhood.
I agree with you with what you said about Christ. We will never be equal to God, because He is our GOD. But we can be like him in immortality and eternal life. We can do some of the things that He does, have the things that He has. In essence, be like him, which is Godhood. That's what he wants for us. He's not selfish, nor is he greedy.
We can be one with God but it isn't Biblical to have eternal sex and procreate our own planets. Jesus said there will be no marriage given in heaven. We will all be one in spirit and love. Since the death and resurrection of Jesus we have a direct line to God. We no longer need the veil to protect the holy of holies. The mercy seat and its sacrifices were finished on the cross.
Exactly, but we don't think the BOOK OF MORMON is perfect either. We don't think the BIBLE is "so full of errors.." We believe it contains the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, albeit written by imperfect men, prone to mistakes, just like in the BOOK OF MORMON. However, Mormon's believe the BoM to be translated by a PROPHET through the HOLY GHOST, not by scholars using their understanding of language to make accurate translations, like the BIBLE was translated.
The BOM does not claim that the Bible text is corrupt, but that parts of the Bible have been taken away. The problem with this video is that it ignores statements in the Bible which point to missing books and texts which no longer are extant. They fill the air with hot air about scholars and textual criticism, but ignore the clear evidence found in the Bible itself.
What they said about the dead sea scrolls is interesting but completely misleading.
There are many verses of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon that are different than those of the bible.
Out of those many, about half of the differences are found in the Book of Mormon! Most of these only have one word off, but ii fits remarkably into the timetable that the Book of Mormon claims to be.
Besides, the topic here is a complete red-herring. When they say textual criticism of the Book of Mormon I thought that they would discuss the Book of Mormon. Not speak about the dead sea scrolls and how they are similar to the bible.
Smith was a fraud. The Dead Sea Scrolls do support THe Bible.
With LDS, you have a plagarized BoM, "translated" from ficticious plates, Smith's mistranslation of Pagan Funeral Text, and a bunch of flimmsey, halfassd excuses to explain all of the discrepancies in BoM.
You have never read the Book of Mormon, have you? Your claim that it is a "mistranslation of Pagan Funeral Text" ought to embarrass you because it is solid proof you don't know of what you speak. You have born a false witness.
Pagan funeral texts?? LOL. That is truly laughable. Your ignorance has officially been revealed. Discrepancies in the BoM? Like what?? Let's have it Outlaw, bring your "A" game and not that weak "SMITH IS A FRAUD" crap. Come with something credible or don't come at all.
"There isn't really a problem in establishing the original text.... We know what the original was." What the Book of Mormon attempts is a new relevation similar to that of the Qur'an and in response to the twin problems of transmission and translation vis-a-vis the Bible. The Book of Mormon does not restore the lost original, anymore than the Qur'an does. Restoring the original was the "noble dream" of the German higher critics and in no sense a success.
Mormons should have started from scratch (like Scientologists), rather than bastardize my Bible... They'd actually be more believable to unsaved folks.
The bible does not contain all the records that were available at that time, it is a compilation, just like the BOM is. What is in the Bible is still the world of God, but there is more of it. There were over 300 Bibles before Constantine compiled the one that we have today. There are books in the Ethiopian Bible that is not in other Bibles and so on...
VOSCD -- I joyfully announce this as Victory Over Socal aka Titan day.
He will no longer trouble good non-Mormons by riding his menacing Toxin-Belching Phallus Skycycle around YouTube -- dropping obscene loads of rubbish into threads.
He Now Posts Exclusively at the BYU Castro Street Blog.
The more you reply, the more you reveal about yourself. I do not see any outpouring of support for you showing up here!!
Your past history involving infidelity & inappropriate condict with children has been well documented. When I 1st confronted you with what I'd learned about you, your reply was:
You are lying through your teeth accusing me of posing as a child;
You are also lying about your past, because by your own ADMISSION, you trolled the profile of a 13y/o, and you were, in fact, excommunicated from LDS due to your "Danite" conduct, and your past behavior which was very highly suspect.
Accuse as you will, none of that would matter if it were not for perverts like you who go trolling!!
You have already confessed that you see nothing wrong with grown men having sex w/ 14y/o girls, and we already know that you were excommunicated from LDS for inappropriate contact with children.
How about Isaiah 2:16 The Greek (septuagent) has "ships of the sea". The Hebrew "ships of Tarshish." The Book of Mormon has both, showing that the brass plates had lot neither phrase. Please explain that?
BUZZ4134 3 months ago
As long as you are happy :)
ballabaybe 11 months ago
Luke 11: 52
52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Key of knowledge are scriptures.
REMEMBER: history repeats!
ballabaybe 1 year ago
@ballabaybe
Sorry... but even the scriptures does not support this... the key of knowledge is God... more accurately the Spirit...
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408
Scriptures = the word God.
ballabaybe 11 months ago
@ballabaybe
Scriptures = a mere reflection of what the word of God is.
Stop making ink and paper you god.
Sk8er408 11 months ago
@Sk8er408 but the scriptures are the road manual to make sure you get the right understanding of the true nature of God.you seek Jesus and you receive the spirit..
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac
Not the Spirit is to make sure you get the right understanding... not a book...
Sk8er408 7 months ago
@Sk8er408 without scriptures wed be lost.oh you can find spirits alright aint gonna be the one you want.
im sure people shun the bible and turn to ouja boards,ect
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@Sk8er408 his word needs to be recorded u fucking pothead skateboarder wake up
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac
Wow... you sure showed me who follows the spirit...
When did i say his words did not need to be recorded? You got anger issues.
Sk8er408 7 months ago
@Sk8er408 well its a stupid statement if god says something throughout history it has to be written down otherwise its just rumor or hearsay and the message gets distorted.
yeah i have anger issues,whats the fuck is your point?
you said paper and ink werent needed,so you are implying what?? scriptures be on cd rom?
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac
IT is the spirit that is needed... not ink an paper that you worship.
Sk8er408 7 months ago
@Sk8er408 so how does his word get passed on from generation to generation?
christian dont worship scripture....we worship god,but the scripture is the manual.
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac
If you read the bible you would understand that it was passed down from God to his Prophets form the beginning...
Sk8er408 7 months ago
Comment removed
willeilers1 1 year ago
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Outlaw1257 1 year ago
This is simply false. We do not have the "original" texts of any of the new or old testament. We only have copies of copies, the oldest is some scraps (not complete) from the 1st Cen.
There are 1000s of errors, mistakes, and most importantly, additions to texts from older texts. This is absolutely provable.
The other false statement is that translations are accurate, old Greek, to old Latin, to Spanish, to French, to German, to old English, to modern English.
No errors? Ridiculous!!!
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 Actually, we have roughly 5,300 New Testament manuscripts alone (if you want, I can cite my information). Are there really 1000s of errors? There is nothing wrong with adding to a text as long as it does not take away from the message or the context. But I am interested to know how you can prove this so please share. As for your 3rd statement, it seems if all the translators are getting it wrong it would be impossible for JS to get it right with a 3rd grade education. Cognitive bias
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 Yes, and all of those 5300 (a larger # than I've seen) are copies. Not all are full manuscripts, most are scraps or parts of the NT. We do not have the Q or Source Doc to validate the writings. Profs Metzger and Ehrman point to 1000s of errors in the Translations, many are just grammar or spelling mistakes, but some are big
The Bible is "Reveled Truth", God's Word, supernatural. You're saying that anyone can make changes to God's Word and that's OK?
I don't know who JS is.
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 The Dead sea Scrolls confirm much of the Old Testament and fully confirm the book of Isaiah. Obviously not all are full manuscripts but the Jewish scribes and the translators of today have been very careful to preserve the authenticity of these documents. If this is not true then we have all been reading the wrong books! The BoM is no exception. I did not say that anyone to make changes to God's word. Why on earth would that be ok?
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 When you are translating a Bible from one language to another, say from Greek to English, obviously some of the words and their meanings are not going to match up perfectly. It's up to the translator to do the best they can to translate the meaning of the original text to the new one. It doesn't necessarily need to be the exact same wording but it should be as close as you can get.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 Yes,mistakes occur. That's the point, saying the bible has supernatural authority? 1st, not even written in the language the events occurred in; then Greek to Latin to Spanish to German to English, hand-written mistakes pile up.
Scribes often writing what they thought was correct, but adding things that made sense to THEM.
We don't have originals, so we DON'T know what was 1st said, we DON'T know who wrote the bible. How can anyone talk about a "god" doing this messy thing?
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 LMAO dude you are more entertaining than Mormon Answerman!!!!!!!! xD
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 Glad to entertain, now return the favor. Explain to me why you believe in god.
Show me the loving god that lets kids be murdered?
Show me the caring god that lets 100,000s killed by nature?
Show me the just god that lets torture and war be done in his name?
Your profile says you're a preacher, why? Do you fear death so much that you need protection from it? Do you fear your own life so much that you "give it to Christ' to duck responsibility?
I'm fascinated by your type
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 Well my explanation would be that these things happen because sin entered the world when Adam & Eve sinned... but that's probably not the kind of explanation you're looking for. I am a pastor because when I was in my deepest darkest hour, I didn't find God. God found me. He picked me up and he showed me that this is just the beginning of the race. I have no fear of my life and I take full responsibility for all I do.Do you think it takes more courage to be a believer or an atheist?
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 If god made the world did he not make sin? Then isn't sin part of his plan? Then sin "entered the world" because god wanted it there. (it's such a silly argument)
Not to rude, but doesn't it seem a bit self-centered that god personally touched you, for your personal benefit, when so many other people live and die in misery? Why doesn't he help them?
I believe the correct question is; Atheist/Faithful; who is more honest? "courage" is not a word to measure truth or fact.
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ManchuDan22 The reason sin entered the world is because God gave us the freedom to make our own choices. It's our own fault our world sucks, not God's. God did not touch me for my personal benefit. He touched me so that I could reach out to others. I don't claim to have all the answers but I know that God allows sin to continue in order to test people. He wants to see if they will catch on and eventually realize that they need him for salvation and that they can't do it on their own.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 I certainly applaud and respect you for helping others, it is one of humanity's greatest traits; our solidarity with each other. BUT we have that quality hard-wired into us through 1000s of years of evolution, it's how we survived. We don't need a mythical god to "give" us what we already have. It is "surplus to requirements"
AND by using a invisible father figure as a crutch to lean on, you minimize us. You say we aren't able to raise OURSELVES up, defining us as eternal children
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 I think it's very possible that God used evolution as a tool to create us as we are today. You cannot possibly take everything in this world and say it all happened by random chance. It's to complicated. Again, I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think God has a bigger part to play in this then you or I realize.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 You have been listening too much to the creationist silliness. There is NOTHING RANDOM about evolution. It is a very specific PROCESS. AND it is also very pitiless as many species disappear based on it's process. 95% of all species ever on Earth have gone away, do you think "GOD Designed" such a wasteful process?
The Blind Watchmaker; Richard Dawkins is a well written explanation of how and why the world is the way it is. The earth is over 4 Billlions years old, MUCH happened
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 Again, this is why it is pointless for us to be arguing. You are so set in your ways that you won't even consider the other side of the coin. And again, I don't deny the things you are saying. In fact, I believe that they are the processes God used to make us humans what we are today. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis is a very well written book that I think would be a great resource for you as Lewis was once an Atheist himself. Check it out.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 If science is so smart, do we know who all those common ancestors are? I'm not saying science is unreliable but come on, they should at least be able to give us that if they're going to say that's where we came from. I believe these things not because I show up to church every Sunday but because I study, I read, and I do my own research from sources that are not religiously biased to find answers.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 I have read The Blind Watchmaker and I wasn't too terribly impressed finding that I could break down many of Dawkins arguments with simple logic, not science. He said in his book ... we have no intuitive grasp of the immensities of time available for evolutionary change. But we can demonstrate that his argument of time is irrelevant. The shortness or longevity of time simply does not apply. It never has and it never will since time is linear. See? Simple logic.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 But as for your second statement, you are right. I do lean on God. Is that so wrong? do you not also lean on the things you believe in? Mankind is making progress in many areas, all the time. That's how God designed us to be. To be thinkers and progress to new knowledge and skills. If we came from monkeys... why are there still monkeys? In this world we can raise ourselves up as much as we want. But we cannot possibly get into heaven without Jesus.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@willeilers1 We return to the question of fact. What you "lean on" is non-existent, unproven and man-made myth. So what you REALLY lean on is yourself and other people, why not give THEM credit? Why be so miserly with your thanks? Give it to those who deserve it, not some absent god
We DID NOT COME FROM MONKEYS, no more than dogs CAME from wolves (which is why ALL still exist) we evolved from a COMMON ancestor which both species branched off from and then continued to evolve on new branches
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
I have to say these comments back and forth btwn you 2 are kind of funny because it doesn't sound spiteful, just mutually annoyed/respectful, while also going nowhere haha. "If science is so smart..." that's a brilliant way to start off any counterpoint eh? Everything by nature follows a specific process and design, simple as that. if anything is random it's the very beginning of mass itself, oh laws of thermo. keep God out of nerd talks, I'm sure He has a better counter than all of us
s0fa 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 dude your argument is so highschool.
"why does God allow sufferering?
we live in an in perfect world of course we are going to have murders and natural disasters.
lilbeaveymac 1 year ago
So god, the almighty, the all knowing, the creator of the universe, make an imperfect world?? The all-loving, all-caring, "has a wonderful plan for us' screwed-up??
Did his hand slip on the magic wand when HE made EVIL, did he screw that up or did god intend to create all the horror in the world??
Gee, if he failed to create a perfect world, then why is he god? If he can't get it right then why do we worship a failed god?
OR maybe GOD IS EVIL, and that is what YOU like?
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 God did not screw up. WE DID. Who said he even had to create a perfect world in the first place? My ministry is not for people like you who are so blinded by ignorance they cannot see the clear evidence that God has laid out before them. My ministry reaches out to the lost and those who are searching for something greater. You automatically assume that God sucks bc the world sucks. Classic if, then fallacy. As an atheist, you ought to know that.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 didnt you just watch the fucking video?
they explained it clearly.
nothing has been added to the bible but the word of God itself.
lilbeaveymac 1 year ago
@lilbeaveymac Your ignorance is embarrassing, and marks you as a true fundamental Christian.
Here are 7 verses which are found in the King James Bible, but not found in the early Greek versions, SO THEY WERE ADDED LATER, YOU FOOL.
John 5:7, John 8:7, John 8:11, Luke 22:20, Mark 16:18, Luke 24:12, Luke 24:51 - Look them up, that's if you know how to read big words!
The bible was written by men to control other men (idiots such as you), and look at you, it's working, isn't it?
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 nobody controls me,im not catholic,i dont follow a pope.i can do whatever i want,i can go shoot heroin tommarow if i want.but i wont because the i have the wisdom of the bible to remind me of path to destruction.
we arent saved by works we are saved by grace.
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@willeilers1 well thats why we just read the WHOLE bible in its context.
lilbeaveymac 1 year ago
@lilbeaveymac I would hope so.
willeilers1 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22 doesnt matter if there are errors main pillars are there which is all that matters.prophecy of jesus,jesus birth,rising from the dead,wiping out religious law, establishing the law at same time.
everyone knows the bible has grammatical errors,duh doesn't matter main essence of story is there.
lilbeaveymac 7 months ago
@lilbeaveymac Really? So the Bible is NOT the perfect word of God? If that is true, then on what basis does the Bible have any authority? If it is not "Supernatural", then it is JUST A BOOK written by men; men who didn't even witness the events, written in a different language than was spoken then.
"main essence of story"??? We have NO idea of the stories truth or facts! And you base your life on the this fable? and people DIE over this vague myth?
Ridiculous!!!!
ManchuDan22 7 months ago
It took me a second to see the direction this video was taking. I was curious to see Living Hope Ministries web-site. It appears they administer a sort of detox for LDS patrons with an injection of historical research & some rational thinking. Only, Living Hope Ministries should expound their inquisitiveness of truth finding and go one more step further. The truth sometimes may not be warm, but the truth is the truth.
21121309 2 years ago
@21121309 I know. Why can't these Xians turn these same sound concepts on their own holy books? It's called cognitive bias. Faith is a glass ceiling...
amaxamon 2 years ago
Nothing has been removed from the bible? what about at the council fo Nicaea?
You won't see a mistake from one and no mistake on the other fifty because there was no other fifty.
The Dead Sea scrolls agree more with Mormon belief than Jewish or any other.
The bibles of christians in the roman empire agreed with the bible of christians outside the empire? LOL Oh really? The Romans completely changed christianity to suit there needs.
This video is unbelievably inaccurate.
someguycalledshelnut 2 years ago
@someguycalledshelnu, what about the council of nicea?
the bible was not an agenda of that council.
well, Dan Brown, in his imagination, said so.
forestking19 2 years ago
forestking19 - Really?
someguycalledshelnut 2 years ago
@someguycalledshelnut You're not aware about it? Bible was not an agenda in the Council of Nicea. Only Dan Brown said that in Da Vinci Code.
forestking19 1 year ago
Go away
someguycalledshelnut 1 year ago
@someguycalledshelnut thanks for driving me out. just the same, i thank God for this occasion to correct your wrong knowledge that the Council of Nicea had altered the bible. It never did.
Nicea talked about the Arian heresy, date of easter, and some church regulations.
the bible was never a topic in that Council. Dan Brown, in his dreams, thought it was.
forestking19 1 year ago
How does Joseph Smith receiving revelation (whether he did or did not) say that Jesus did not fulfill his promise?
someguycalledshelnut 2 years ago
The church only seems to change their beliefs (like the limited geography theory of the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, location of Hill Cumorah, American Indians are the principle ancestors of the Lamanites, etc.) when contradictory evidence disproves their recorded history. This seems inconsistent with a church run by modern-day prophets with modern revelation.
endofus 2 years ago 2
In an effort to unify the Christians, one official Bible was put together, but only those writings that fit with a certain school of thought were included. The many writings that disagreed with that school of thought were not included, presenting an inaccurate representation of Jesus (as), his nature, his teachings, and his mission.
dawahaddict 2 years ago
So - what is your authority/evidence for this claim?
Estaban333 2 years ago
Even if the manuscripts were identical to the originals (which they are not), the originals are still NOT the Word of God, not the revelation as it was given to Jesus (as). The New Testament is a compilation of writings written by men who never met Jesus (as). When the Bible was compiled, there were many many writings and texts floating around among the early Christians.
dawahaddict 2 years ago
I'd just like to make note of the scripture presented in this video clip: 1 Nephi 13:26.
He makes a point, Line 26 does say things were taken away.
He ignores 24 which says the book was spoken rightly from the mouth of the Jew...Jesus.
The scripture doesn't say that the bible was changed by the Jews...it implies that the great masses, who did not know or understand the fullness of the gospel, lost its complete meaning.
Think of slaughters where killers justify murder by doctrine.
kimudo 2 years ago
The scriptures state that there will be a falling away first. I guess that the LDS have a valid scriptural reason for understanding that there was a predicted falling away. Apparently these guys at oxford dont know how to do their research very well.
neokevin3 2 years ago
This video makes false claims. Jesus refers to scriptures such as enoch coming with 10 thousands of his saints that is no longer found in the official scriptures. So yes, we have evidence that things were removed from the scriptures.
neokevin3 2 years ago
Speaking from a strictly historical perspective, we know beyond any reasonable doubt that the Christian faith was never "lost" and didn't need "restoring". The Reformation simply retained the key doctrines of the historic faith and emphasized grace. Mormonism was an entirely new, heretofore unknown religion, albeit containing elements of many previous known religious faiths. Just keepin' it real.
Pacisdiligo 3 years ago
But the problem is doctrines were distorted and many churches have different sets of doctrines. But God is not the God of confusion. There is only one Gospel. One set of true doctinre, that's why God called Joseph Smith as a modern prophet and commissioned him to translate the gold plates into the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the word of God and it truely goes hand in hand with the Bible. I read them both daily and they do testify the truthfulness of each other.
benjaminhaha123 3 years ago
There's an awful lot of books written that to some extent complies with the Bible... Most are presented as commentary and not as additions to the gospel. If ideas in C.S. Lewis' books on christianity, that a lot of Mormons like, were presented as new doctrine, you could say the same thing about them. That's the problem for many with Mormonism. As long as it feels good, it's true. Be careful with that.
explorelds 3 years ago
Mormons must be born again. John 3
JesusChristisSaviour 3 years ago
Being "born from above" has several interpretations.
amandacalifornia 2 years ago
to amandacalofornia---God is the interpreater thru Holy Spirit. Look at whole chapter of John 3 in its own context. It is about faith in Jesus Christ to be born again. Right divide the word of truth. There is no salvation in another name but the name of Jesus by faith with true heart of repenetance from dead works to living God.
JesusChristisSaviour 2 years ago
So what are you saying, is that your interpretation of the Bible alone is through the Holy Spirit and no one else's?
I have read the entirety of John 3 as well as all of the Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles. Interpreting that passage as the sacrament of baptism, and its symbolic rebirth in Christ, is totally legitimate. "No one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of WATER and the Spirit." John 3:5
There are plenty of Bible things to criticize Mormonism about, but not that.
amandacalifornia 2 years ago
You still misinterpret this verse just like the Catholicism and other cults who misuse this verse for salvation by baptism as "good works". Look at verse 4 and 6. Born of water means physical birth as you are born from your mother's womb in water. Ever seen mothers give birth underwater? Verse 5 which cults defend does not apply to verse 4 and 6 as physivcal birth. It is a famous twisted verse by cults. Beware as misinterpretaion is the master work of Satan to damn souls by deception!
JesusChristisSaviour 2 years ago
What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody is talking about "good works." And stop telling me to look at it again. I'VE READ IT. It's not been "misused" by anyone. Why don't YOU read through Acts, it clearly has the apostles BAPTIZING all believers. Not just saying some stupid "Sinner's Prayer."
And by the way, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Mt 7:21.
amandacalifornia 2 years ago
And Catholicism is not a cult you stupid douche. Just because someone doesn't agree with YOUR interpretation of the Bible it doesn't make them wrong.
They are RIGHT in teaching that you can't just go around sinning your brains out and expect to have grace, as YOUR church would do well to learn. If you TRULY have faith in Jesus Christ, you will want to live after him. Read Lk 6:46-49, Romans 6:1-3, Romans 6:15-16. Salvation is through faith, but good works will follow those who truly have it.
amandacalifornia 2 years ago
Obey Jesus' word:
"13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God." Rom 8
And concerning baptism=born again in Holy Spirit:
"'Brothers, what should we do?' Peter said to them, 'Repent, and be BAPTIZED everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will RECEIVE the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT." Acts 2:37,38
amandacalifornia 2 years ago
BofM TEXT QUESTION: If the letters were called out one by one and carefully written down and then pronounced, WHY IS THE ORIGINAL TEXT IN LONG HAND CURSIVE HANDWRITTING???? Just curious
hypnotstcollector 3 years ago
Thanks so much for posting and for all the comments! Ancient and Modern Prophets have taught me that there would be people just like you doing things just like this! Thanks again for strengthening my beleifs. Love you.
eyemlds 3 years ago
hahahahaha guy ckaims that nephi says that things have been taken away from the "gospels" he tries to make it seem that bom means the 4 books gospels, how stupid is that. nephi says that parts were taken away from the gospel of the lamb, meaning the core doctrines and teachings, not a damn books of matthew or John. PHD scholar should know this unless he want's to really deceive knowingly.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Mormonism is an evil. The Bible is the complete word of God. Joseph Smith was a pervert and his followers are reprobate. COLDS needs to repent and put their trust in Jesus, the one and only living Son of God. The Bible was not "translated into several languages" resulting in misconceptions. This video is simply erroneous. If you are Mormon, REPENT.
PeripheralMan 3 years ago 2
Why are you all not acknowledging and using the truly world class scholar Emanuel Tov's "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible," which truly refutes these claims made in this film clip? And why are you apparently so very unaware of McDonald and Sanders astonishing text "The Canon Debate"? This certainly is different than what this film clip presents. Not all is as well on the front as this pretends when it comes to the Bible.
TheBackyardProfessor 3 years ago
professor, would you like to present a video of this textual criticism? also, would you like to show few links to those, I'm interested generally.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
It appears this would be a superb idea. I shall do so as I find time. I am in the process of producing 20 vids on the Book of Mormon this weekend.
TheBackyardProfessor 3 years ago
whatever. The Church will continue to progress.
dakilangduca 3 years ago
that doesn't change what truth is and what truth is not.
deconomou 3 years ago
And the truth is that The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is the true and restored church of Christ in this last days, with divine authority from God to perform saving ordinances, fulness of the everlasting gospel, living prophet and apostles who continue to receive divine revelation from God. Those are the truth that any philosophical, genius and man-made theories cannot change.
dakilangduca 3 years ago
Watch "The Lost Book of Abraham". Is Joseph Smith a true prophet? Find out!
deconomou 4 years ago
Boy isn't religion ever a pointless subject, just believe what you want to believe and shut up! Religious subjects cause certain flaming and then hurt can we just stop the 'false' label already! And the 'liar' label is really tiring hope you know! Christians are hurt about being bashed, Mormons are also hurt about being flamed and called 'liars, false and heretics', I also believe Jews are tired of the hate they get! Let's just shut the subject and be at peace with ourselves ok? Good!
rockahol7 4 years ago
We converse about religion because we care about each other. If we didn't want to discuss it then we have the freedom not too. When God is your everything, nothing is more pleasing than being in his presence every second of every day.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
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jubbster 4 years ago
The internal evidence indicates that this book was written by an individual who received no new revelations from God, but rather compiled a book that presents a partial and misleading collage of biblical concepts and a mosaic of scriptural words and phrases mixed with false information.
AngryRichMan 4 years ago
ARM, I disagree completely with you claim, internal evidence indicates The Book of Morman is an ancient document written by several different authors. The Book of Mormon testifies of and invites all to "come unto Christ". Careful prayerful reading affirms this through the Holy Ghost.
bjshred 4 years ago
I disagree with you there. I've read the Book of Mormon four times and each time I put Moroni's challenge to the test and each time I failed to get the burning in the bosom, hence the Religion is false. Simple. Sorry you were mistaken if you felt a burning in your bosom, it's cool, we're all human.
Benjaminblackwell 3 years ago
Yes indeed we are all human, that does not however make the Book of Mormon untrue or the Church false. The internal evidence stands, the BOM is from an ancient manuscript and invites "all to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him" I did as Moroni challenged as well as millions world wide. We disagree with you. Try with real intent and a humble heart, searching for the truth. I know the Book of Mormon is truly from God to us, His children.
bjshred 3 years ago
Funny thing about Moroni's challenge is that if you don't get the burning in your bosom, you must have done something wrong or weren't sincere enough. That's not really a challenge. This "challenge" is a gimmick. What about other faiths that claim they have the truth and if your pray about it you'll recieve an anwer AND people pray and feel the holy ghost but it's not Mormonism their praying about (the one true church)explain that
Benjaminblackwell 3 years ago
As an ardent Anti-Mormon, I would be the last to claim that SmYth wrote BoM by himself; the evidence tells us otherwise.
Part of SmYth's writings were plagerized from The Bible, others were borrowed from the writings of Spaulding.
Mobot Temple rituals were stolen from The Masons.
Outlaw1257 3 years ago
The book of Mormon cannot testify to its own authenticity by claiming that it is an ancient document ipso facto. On a theological point, I find it interesting that you quote Moroni 10:32 "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you." Talk about a confusion of works and grace! Go read Galatians.
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
Read carefully, the Holy Ghost is the one who testifies after we have faith in Christ and have read the Book carefully and asked God with real intent. The testimony of the authenticity of the BOM is from the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the gift of God to all those who diligently seek Him. 1 Ne 10:17We are saved by grace after all we can do 2 Nephi 25:23 I know by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true and that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer. Amen
bjshred 3 years ago
1 nephi 10:17 directly contradicts Romans 3:10-13 and the psalms passage Paul is quoting. 2 Nephi 25:23 contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 (it is not AFTER all we can do,but rather before we can even begin!) Also Rom. 5:6. I still don't understand the challenge, are you saying that one has to already have faith in Christ before the holy spirit testifies to us? That contradicts 2 Cor. 12:3 .And are you suggesting one has to WANT the book of Mormon to be true before recieving an inner testimony?
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
2 things: 2 Cor. 11:14 states that Satan can decieve by "masquerading as an angel of light." Also Gal 1:6-8 states "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" You must take additions to the scriptures seriously, particularly ones claiming a "restoration" that contradict the teachings of the NT. If it is not grace alone by Faith alone in Christ alone apart from our works, then it is of Satan.
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
Run the race to the end to receive the crown, fight the good fight. Why race, why fight if the race and fight is won? Mormons haven't got much right but the need for works to prove faith is one of the few (and the greatest of these is love - of faith, hope and love). They, at least, share this in common with the Churches which gave you the Bible (Catholicism and Orthodoxy).
Estaban333 3 years ago
Estaban, do you suggest that we contribute to Christ's sacrifice? Rome and the LDS actually have very different views on this. Of course faith is active in love, but it is a response to the fullness of salvation won on the cross. Never get the two confused. Moroni 10:32 would be anathematized by Rome, because it puts law before gospel. At least Rome is only semi-Pelagius, LDS is downright legalism. By the way, I am on the side of Augustine in the Pelagian controversy. Thats the church I reside.
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
Its a simple question really: What is grace? is it something that is given only after we have rid ourselves of all ungodliness? Is it something that saves us after all we can do on our own? or is it what scripture teaches: that which saves us on account of Christ alone and renews and transforms a sinner into a regenerated man responding in kind to neighbor while worshiping and thanking God. I think we can agree on this at least.
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
Hi sola, no I suggest that it is an inevitable and inescapable response to Christ's own perfect and eternal sacrifice.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Estaban, I agree, unfortunately, LDS doctrine does not.
xxsolascripturaxx 3 years ago
Please please please research Mormonism from an outside perspective. It will be very difficult for anyone in any religion to step back and take a look. Why do they call it a cult, why is it so new, why can't they find any cities, any artifacts, steel, archeology, agriculture, why the racism, why masonic roots, why polygamy, why blood omens, why secrets, why the occult, why does it contradict the Bible, why false prophecies, why so many excuses. A flag should raise.
Seek Christ!
clint25n 4 years ago
"Christ is the author and finisher of salvation." Mathew 27:51 the veil was torn. This signifies our ability to seek God personally. Hebrews 9 explains salvation through Christ. Prophets were important until JESUS made the final sacrifice. There was no need for future prophets. Namely, "Joseph" who contaminated the perfect word of Christ with contradictory scriptures.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
This video is a bold face lie. They have found texts that are completly differnt than what we have now, i.e the gos. of Judas was just found and tells a differnt story than whats in the bible today. Also the dead sea scrolls, have major differences compared to the bibles before they were found.
krazzylad 4 years ago
This video is accurate, and I wish everyone would spend time investigating their belief systems before making opinions based on word of mouth. There is absolutely no reason to put your faith in Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ never left room for anyone outside of him for salvation.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
So, by that reasoning, we can get to Jesus while denying the prophets, like Abraham and Moses, etc.? Then why would GOD choose prophets if we can still go to heaven by denying them? That makes no sense whatsoever.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Mankind only needed prophets until the savior came and the veil was torn.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
That is not Biblical! You are choosing to believe that but it is not biblical in any way. Why choose apostles after his death who received revelation if what you just said was true?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
There's a reason the Bible ended when it did. When he was on the cross, he said "it is finished" The veil to the temple was torn representing the ability for us to have direct contact with God. Prophets were no longer needed and apostles were there to spread the gospel. God speaks to ALL of us who will listen. We can all have revelations but they must coincide with the Bible. There is no need to add anything because its already there.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
A prophet is a teacher not a savior.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
Yes, but you CANNOT deny the prophets and accept the Savior in the same breath. You can't bipass all the words of the prophets and get to God on your own. Amos 3:7. A Teacher, yes, but much more than just that.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
If you think that the Bible contains every book or dissertation ever written by an apostle, prophet or Christ himself please take you head out of the sand. I can list numerous books mentioned in the Bible that are not contained in it, are they not important? Who decided to leave them out?
keltontrey 4 years ago
The Bible does mention other books but those books were not meant to be a part of Gods Word. They were meant for historical reasons only. "Divine Inspiration" is how the Bible was formed. If the creator of the universe can't author a perfect book then there would be no point in believing in him. With one word he created and with one breath he gave life.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
The BIBLE was compiled and then voted on by men, not Prophets. What proof do you have that "divine inspiration" is how it was formed? You can testify of indivudual books in the BIBLE, but testifying of how it was formed is inaccurate. GOD is not the author of the BIBLE... That is FALSE. It is also not a perfect book either.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Oh, but it is perfect. God reveals himself to those who truly seek him. It is the living, breathing word of the creator. He knows every hair on your head, how then can he not inspire a book. The men who voted on it were filled with the Holy Spirit. Joseph Smith seemed to be filled with hormones and greed.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
You need to better research the history of the early church, as well as the compilation of the Bible. God inspires prophets, not books. Your faith should be based on truth through the Holy Ghost regardless of it being found in the BIBLE or not. God never asked us to verify truth with the BIBLE, but with the Holy Ghost.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
John5:39"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Jesus believed in the scriptures. He quoted them often.
2 Peter 2-1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
If there are false prophets, there must of necessity be true prophets. You, I would surmise, don't believe that there are any true ones, claiming any and all from post-biblical times to be false.
Lastly, the Book of Mormon in no ways denies teh Lord.
rafussen 4 years ago
The need for prophets died when christ did. The veil was torn (Matthew 27:51) giving everyone the ability to speak directly to God. The mormon Jesus was a polygamist and the father(God)was incestuous with Mary his daughter. This is not the same God, Jesus or Mary of the Bible. If you read mormon doctorine it has no resemblence to the God of the Bible. If you want to know where to find any of this information I would love to help you. God Bless!!
angelawwjd 4 years ago
Then why didn't Peter just come out and explicitly say that there are no more prophets? The Bible never says prophets no longer existed after Christ, in fact, it says the opposite. Christ set up his own church with "prophets" in it (Ephesians 4:11). Prophecy and revelation came after Christ through his prophets/apostles.
Lastly your logic is flawed in making conclusions about Mormon doctrine by comparing it to what is in the Bible.
rafussen 4 years ago
I only believe the Bible, its prophets and all thats included therein. I believe that it is the inspired word of God. I believe that Joseph Smith has corrupted the truth and has lied about his revelations, as well as all other mormon prophets. I also believe that the books of the apocrypha were not meant to be a part of the Bible. One God!!!
angelawwjd 4 years ago
one God? then there should be one faith, and one baptism as ephesians 4 says!!!!!! its that the catholic church took the ordinance of baptism (plus every other one) and changed it cause they hadn't any prophet or priesthood to teach as God intended. in greek baptism means submerge in water but that was changed. the book of mormon stats that these ordinances were changed and things were left out. thats true. God will tell you its true
glycoboy 4 years ago
Sorry glycoboy, I asked Him - he didn't tell me that the BOM is true. DNA, anthropology, linguistics and archaeology all seem to say the BOM is a crock! Head out of sand time - get your tithes back and seek the truth elsewhere - Joe wanted money, women and power - like the other post-Jesus 'prophet' mohammed. Jesus was enough - no later 'prophet' required.
Estaban333 3 years ago
If there are false prophets, there must of necessity be true prophets. You, I would surmise, don't believe that there are any true ones, claiming any and all from post-biblical times to be false.
Lastly, the Book of Mormon in no way denies the Lord.
rafussen 4 years ago
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
How is it that you get to decide what is or what is not meant to be part of GOD's word? Has God said he would speak no more? Has he said there is nothing more out there that he has spoken? Too many Christians speak for GOD and make claims about the BIBLE that THE BIBLE DOES NOT MAKE FOR ITSELF. That is problematic.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
The veil was torn. God speaks to us individually through a personal relationship. Jesus Christ made that possible.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
If you cannot test doctorines by Biblical scripture, then its not of God. God speaks to all of us but Satan can as well. How do we know if its God speaking? We test it with the Bible. The Bible warns us many times about false prophets and tells us to test everything. Joseph Smith taught we can become gods. God has made it clear that he is the one and only. Hebrews 13:8 God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He doesen't change.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
When did Jesus teach that? He never taught that. Nor did he write the bible. You are erring when you rely solely on the bible for truth. It doesn't contain everything, nor does it claim to. You are stating things about the bible that it doesn't say for itself. Mormonism follows Christ, bottom line.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Why do Mormons always go back to trashing the Bible to support their claims? Even if the Bible is corrupted or incorrect somehow, that doesn't PROVE the BOM is true. And if the Bible is so full of errors, that just adds to Mormonism's problems doesn't it?
Galatian23 4 years ago
Watching an anti-mormon propaganda would not typically qualify as an accurate portrayal of LDS viewpoint.
I would suggest that one read both books, it's kind of hard to compare books before they are fully read and understood.
joshsybs 4 years ago
The Bible is perfect, its message is perfect. The only problem is in the reader. God is far too powerful and beyond our understanding to make mistakes. The book of mormon was given by Joseph Smith. First you have polygamy is wrong in the book of mormon, then its commanded in d&c. Then the books of Abraham and Moses give the creation story one as plural and one as singular. It makes God out to be some kind of perverted, confused, idiot. If thats not heretical I don't know what is.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
Again, GOD didn't write the BIBLE. Polygamy was accepted in the Old Testament, and then abolished in the New Testament. It's offensive of you to say that "it makes God out to be some kind of perverted, confused, idiot." I think you are mistaken about how you perceive Mormonism. I recommend you, and any one else, to read it, pray about it, and stop trusting in what you hear or read about Mormons.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
One thing that I could never, ever, ever believe is that a man can become a God. Isaiah among many other biblical scriptures is very clear on one point. "ONE GOD" We can become one with God but not a seperate deity. The Bible says we will not be given in marriage once we get to heaven. If it were not so Jesus would have told us. I believe in him not Joseph. By grace we are saved, not by works.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
Why is that so hard to believe? Christ commanded us to be like Him, and He is a GOD. We'll never be superior to God the Father, or God the Son, but we can indeed be like them, else why would they command it? They would in turn be liars if it were not possible to be like them. Jesus came to this earth to save us, and allow us to progress to immortality and eternal life. Is that not in some measure Godhood?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Does that mean that God the father can never be superior to his father and he to his father? Do you mean that we can be equal to God? The Bible says no man is perfect, no not one. Jesus spilled his blood to wash away our sins in the sight of his father. HE was the sacrificial lamb. Only through him we can be saved, not through our own ability. He is in us and we in him, only in that respect can we attain salvation but never godhood.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
I agree with you with what you said about Christ. We will never be equal to God, because He is our GOD. But we can be like him in immortality and eternal life. We can do some of the things that He does, have the things that He has. In essence, be like him, which is Godhood. That's what he wants for us. He's not selfish, nor is he greedy.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
We can be one with God but it isn't Biblical to have eternal sex and procreate our own planets. Jesus said there will be no marriage given in heaven. We will all be one in spirit and love. Since the death and resurrection of Jesus we have a direct line to God. We no longer need the veil to protect the holy of holies. The mercy seat and its sacrifices were finished on the cross.
angelawwjd 4 years ago
Exactly, but we don't think the BOOK OF MORMON is perfect either. We don't think the BIBLE is "so full of errors.." We believe it contains the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, albeit written by imperfect men, prone to mistakes, just like in the BOOK OF MORMON. However, Mormon's believe the BoM to be translated by a PROPHET through the HOLY GHOST, not by scholars using their understanding of language to make accurate translations, like the BIBLE was translated.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
If you people know so much about this,then why not tell everyone about the innumerable errors in the bible.They couldn't even add in those days.
And there are NO originals to see anyway.
yellowfish27 4 years ago
StraightEdgeGorilla1 - "book of mormon"
You are correct, the bible did speak to the book of mormon....."Accursed"
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1: 8-9
j9911761 4 years ago
no evidence huh?
ezekiel 37:16-20
and that's not the only place at which the book of mormon's comming forth is brought up at
StraightEdgeGorilla1 4 years ago
The BOM does not claim that the Bible text is corrupt, but that parts of the Bible have been taken away. The problem with this video is that it ignores statements in the Bible which point to missing books and texts which no longer are extant. They fill the air with hot air about scholars and textual criticism, but ignore the clear evidence found in the Bible itself.
cdowis 4 years ago
What they said about the dead sea scrolls is interesting but completely misleading.
There are many verses of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon that are different than those of the bible.
Out of those many, about half of the differences are found in the Book of Mormon! Most of these only have one word off, but ii fits remarkably into the timetable that the Book of Mormon claims to be.
joshsybs 4 years ago
Besides, the topic here is a complete red-herring. When they say textual criticism of the Book of Mormon I thought that they would discuss the Book of Mormon. Not speak about the dead sea scrolls and how they are similar to the bible.
joshsybs 4 years ago
Get real, Josh!!
Smith was a fraud. The Dead Sea Scrolls do support THe Bible.
With LDS, you have a plagarized BoM, "translated" from ficticious plates, Smith's mistranslation of Pagan Funeral Text, and a bunch of flimmsey, halfassd excuses to explain all of the discrepancies in BoM.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Outlaw,
You have never read the Book of Mormon, have you? Your claim that it is a "mistranslation of Pagan Funeral Text" ought to embarrass you because it is solid proof you don't know of what you speak. You have born a false witness.
radatap 4 years ago
Pagan funeral texts?? LOL. That is truly laughable. Your ignorance has officially been revealed. Discrepancies in the BoM? Like what?? Let's have it Outlaw, bring your "A" game and not that weak "SMITH IS A FRAUD" crap. Come with something credible or don't come at all.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
did they really used to call brigam young...bring em young
frickenfraken 4 years ago
"There isn't really a problem in establishing the original text.... We know what the original was." What the Book of Mormon attempts is a new relevation similar to that of the Qur'an and in response to the twin problems of transmission and translation vis-a-vis the Bible. The Book of Mormon does not restore the lost original, anymore than the Qur'an does. Restoring the original was the "noble dream" of the German higher critics and in no sense a success.
clydeforsberg4 4 years ago
Mormons should have started from scratch (like Scientologists), rather than bastardize my Bible... They'd actually be more believable to unsaved folks.
randy95023 4 years ago
The bible does not contain all the records that were available at that time, it is a compilation, just like the BOM is. What is in the Bible is still the world of God, but there is more of it. There were over 300 Bibles before Constantine compiled the one that we have today. There are books in the Ethiopian Bible that is not in other Bibles and so on...
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magnymoparabelum 4 years ago
VOSCD -- I joyfully announce this as Victory Over Socal aka Titan day.
He will no longer trouble good non-Mormons by riding his menacing Toxin-Belching Phallus Skycycle around YouTube -- dropping obscene loads of rubbish into threads.
He Now Posts Exclusively at the BYU Castro Street Blog.
Let the Church Bells Ring!!!
LibertyYooTube 4 years ago
So, then, Bong??
Why don't you discuss the reasons you were excommunicated from LDS??
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Keep'em comming, Bong!!
The more you reply, the more you reveal about yourself. I do not see any outpouring of support for you showing up here!!
Your past history involving infidelity & inappropriate condict with children has been well documented. When I 1st confronted you with what I'd learned about you, your reply was:
"I will not confirm or deny".
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Why do you troll for CHILDREN, Bong!!
You are lying through your teeth accusing me of posing as a child;
You are also lying about your past, because by your own ADMISSION, you trolled the profile of a 13y/o, and you were, in fact, excommunicated from LDS due to your "Danite" conduct, and your past behavior which was very highly suspect.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
All that coming from an excommunicated Mormon who trolls for 13y/o kids!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Accuse as you will, none of that would matter if it were not for perverts like you who go trolling!!
You have already confessed that you see nothing wrong with grown men having sex w/ 14y/o girls, and we already know that you were excommunicated from LDS for inappropriate contact with children.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago