The raw intensity of this is fantastic, but it could benefit from not being everyone going all the time. I prefer records like Live At The Village Vanguard Again! and Meditations because there's a lot more listening and interaction going on.
difficolt for a classic jazz blues musician like me.... ...but i can feel something inside... i can.t explay how this became music but is alternate way to speak with the instruments... anyway amazing!!!!
If art is the enciphering of raw emotion, reason and being, this is an apotheosis. Otherwise listen to your pop and play your video games. The sixties were a pivotal time in history, and if this doesn't reach into your heart from the fourth dimension, and give it a twirl, then you are esthetically dead meat.
The horns are so close they feel like they are playing inside the listener's body. The accompanying instruments sound so distant. Don't suppose this effect was intentional. Horns sound so alive and present --- and dry to the bone.
What the hell is all the talk about LSD. To me the Om record is among the deepest music I've heard. It takes me to new level of consciousness, and the strange thing is that I don't dig the Brotzmann / european thing at all. This has so much intensity, so much soul. And I ain't posin, my fave Coltrane album is ballads anyways...
This music is great!!! and Those who do not like it do not have to listen to it. Those who have an appreciation and understanding of this level of expression are rewarded when the hear OM!!
@Applemask yes! people dont seem to understand that. rumor has it that he was on an acid trip during this record but none of it has ever been able to be proven true.
I bought this album years ago when I was first getting into jazz cause I thought the cover art looked cool. The first time I put it on the turntable I listened for 30 secs or so and they immediately turned it off, thinking it was absolute rubbish. Now that I hear this again after gaining an appreciation for more conventional styles of jazz, this doesnt sound like a bunch of noise anymore. On the contrary it is actually quite enjoyable to listen to.
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are you all retarded? this isnt amazing, or a masterpiece or any of that crap. this was a bunch of musicians on an acid trip fucking around with their instruments at like 4 am. dont get me wrong, they are some amazing musicians, but they werent going for anything here. all you people who are like "this is amazing music" cut the crap. if it was a bunch of high school kids who did the exact same thing you would complain that its noise and really bad. so shut up
@bigachman210 i know,even my jazz history teacher said LSD was prob. involved here,not getting how this is deep and meaningful,painful is more like it
@bigachman210 I've been listening to contemporary free jazz saxophonists for years, and none of them are particularly good but Peter Brotzmann. You simply don't have the ear for this presently. Don't be an imbecile. It's a mimetic representation of human consciousness (duh?) which can release emotional power for people so constituted to hear it as such. It's pretty simple.
@bigachman210 I just want to tell you that people who like are not retard or on acid trip, they just like non conventional music.Because music with a structure can become a kind of barrier for creation, those musicians break it thats all.So why are you here to throw comments that somebody like me will tell you that you just don't have the free mind of convention to appreciate a music like this. Well I'm not mad at you,but I'm telling you that music here is free,same if it can sound annoying.
@BobbyBluntandthafunk listen, im just saying that this is garbage, and is the result of acid. i love coltrane. i love pharoah. but this is just garbage. it is literally just a few guys picking up instruments and making noise. just because i dont like it does not mean i do nto have personality. coltrane himself hated this and never wanted it released. he knew that it was garbage, and it is. ask any fuckin jazz historian and they will all tell you the same thing. this is garbage.
@bigachman210 I'm possibly the world's biggest late-period Coltrane fan--and yeah, some free-jazz IS garbage--much of "Om" is a very weird kind of LSD-inspired crap (cacophonous excess)--but I find some solos (not all) in late-period Coltrane to be "the most powerful human sound[s] ever recorded," as the original Downbeat reviewer for "Ascension" said. Coltrane ran with his "My Favorite Things" aesthetic--taking it to an unprecedented aesthetic oblivion. But it's still Charlie Parker--in soul.
@opinioninflicting i completely agree...my favorite things is one of my favorite recordings of coltrane...im not hating coltrane at all and i love a lot of his "free" soloes but not this
@bigachman210 If you ever read about what African Americans were going through during the sixties, I think you might understand this as an evolution of the bebop crusade. Its message is more direct and a little less polite than its predecessor, but it states itself much more assertively and directly. This is ANGRY BLACK MUSIC. So, in conclusion, You're the one who is "retarded" on this subject... I could go much further, but I don't think its worth talking musical aesthetics with a musical lout.
@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
@guitarnick28 Psychedelic = Hendrix, Floyd, King Crimson, ect,and don't give that line of BS saying no one can understand this shity music. This is very strenuous to the ears and imo any amateur player can make this noise. You must be a John Coltrane Fan-Boy.
@southsaturndelta220 Oh yea I'm sure any amateur can move chromatically through an alto sax like that. He's playing in fucking 24th notes through octaves. You obviously have never tried to play a brass instrument. And when the sounds get real strange and become "strenuous to your (gentle) ears," I'm appreciating the original tones hes creating on an instrument he's mastered.
@guitarnick28 lol id never try to play brass instruments they all sound bad imo, ill stick to my drums and maybe try some strings. And his playing sounds 100% random stoned out of his mind, it sounds like a fly that keeps buzzing around your head(annoying). Maybe some people dig chunky /squirrelly/shred music, i feel sorry for them. If you insist this sounds good, then have fun with your noise.
@southsaturndelta220 Good point. This music IS rather "chunky." Nice to have had a conversation with someone that knows nothing about music. Enjoy Nickelback.
@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
A bunch of high school kids doing this wouldn't be of the ilk of these musicians. They wouldn't know all of the rules, then proceed to break them. If you view this simply as "a bunch of musicians on an acid trip fucking around with their instruments at like 4 am" you clearly have no soul and are probably a white guy with an alphabetized cd collection and a really tidy haircut.
@bigachman210 yo man a bunch of highschoolers with no knowledge of music theory would not be able to accomplish this... infact a bunch of kids from highschool would probably write something like a crude diad progression in drop d. i got that you don't like it bro but i mean that doesn't mean its inherently bad like some girls like it in the ass and some don't... its a matter of what pleasing to the self and my ears tell me this is expressive and beautiful
@bigachman210 music effects everyone differently, i for one DO like it, yea its different its not my main source of inspiration but hey different strokes for different folks.
@bigachman210 I used to think the same but as I listened to more and more advanced music, modal or atonal music like the complex sequences and timing of Indian ragas and Oud music I eventually developed the "ears" to hear Coltrane. It took me 10 years at least. Now when I hear a piece like this I can grab hold of Trane and follow him hearing the amazing complexity and brilliance. This is really stunning stuff - the musical equivalent of a 1000 yard broad jump. Please don't trash Trane.
@bigachman210 "I don't understand this stuff - I don't see how you guys can listen to it!" is a legitimate reaction. "This stuff is terrible - you guys are crazy if you actually enjoy this!" is also a legitimate reaction. "This stuff is bullshit and you guys are only pretending to like it!" is NOT a legitimate reaction! Yes, some of us actually love this and have listened to it often enough that what sounds like NOISE to you sounds like MUSIC to us! Deal with it.
@bigachman210 if it was a bunch of high school kids who did it i would enjoy it. actually, sometimes with my friends we play intruments and make a lot of noise, and it's amusing, you should try. 'everyone can do that', it is 50% right (the other 50% of my brain keeps thinking this solos by Coltrane are awesome and rare), but that is positive. Probably Lester Bangs explains it better than me
When I first heard Pharoah Sanders I thought he was just making noise. Gradually, I came to learn about the value of "dissonance" in life. It breaks up stagnation. Pharoah uses his sax in a similar way to a shaman playing a didgeridoo, or to the way Stefan Grof used Holotropic Breathwork to simulate all traumatic life changes from birth onward. "Creator Has A Master Plan" and "Hum Allah" follow this natural progression from be, to change, to being at a higher level...
yeah. not only did it have to go here, and beyond here, but I actually enjoy this to some degree. thank you for posting and sorry for repeating what some other well-informed person has already said this.
@jloch85 I can't get you a transcription, but I can give you a formula for playing this way. Before you play do not go to the bathroom, when you are on stage playing and you really have to go bad, especially if it is #2, play like they are playing in a way that will keep you from going to the bathroom on yourself. It takes skill to play that way, because you have to play in context throughout, that styler of playing takes alot of concentration.
I remember sitting in the Crystal all night restaurant in Cleveland around 3 am in 1968 with my friend Frank G. who was whistling and playing OM on his harmonica.
This is the session according to Bill Cole's biography of John Coltrane where he had tried LSD. It was part of his ongoing search & LSD was not yet illegal.
The rumor is that Coltrane had Excessive Compulsive Disorder! I believe there is something to that rumor. Because if you listen to Coltrane carefully you notice that he often repeats the same phrases over and over again but with slight variations on each iteration! It's like he can't get rid of a theme or motif until he has worked out all of its permutations!
D R Garrett seems was the 2nd bassman. Joe Brazil plays flute. All musicians turned to small percussion or bells when they were not soloing in that period. Something Rashied Ali hated profoundly. Did you know that R Ali is never mentioned on the official Coltrane site ? How sad and stupid ! grtz j
great tune....only the true jazz people will enjoy the sounds of this....im 22 and somtimes hard to find proplr that like this shit....not that it matters but this is a good tune.....
The grammar of the music was pretty solidly, organically evolved by the musicians, out of jazz tradition. Superficial aspects sound amateurish, but the the instruments squeal with a GRAMMAR, if you understand what they're expressing. Try to listen to some John Cage theoretical musician wail on saxophone, if you're attuned, you'll quickly discern they have no idea what they're saying. Like Miles Davis (who didn't understand this music) said: some people don't know what the notes mean.
u could say that miles didnt understand this music but it wasnt really his style he went in a differentmusical direction and u cant judge him for that.
but that statement is very true ths musi is very harmonically and rhythmically complex and most people dont understand it.
so at the same time as enjoying the music i can understand entirely at wat jloch85 is saying as i have had to come from that view point to be able to like it.
Seriously, Miles didn't understand it because it was over his head, not because he just went in a different direction, which should not have to do with understanding the music. Coltrane, at least at this time period (post December '64), was playing truly psychedelic jazz.
Why does all music have to be understood? Maybe Miles just didn't like it. Some people like chicken some like pizza, why does someone have to be correct? Do you have to understand pizza? I don't like this stuff he did, neither did MyCoy and Elvin. Doesn't mean we are right or wrong. There is a rather sudden shift in sound which could well mean LSD, but also it could be the fact that he could have had the start of cancer at this point. Fantastic musician either way.
Miles is my alltime favorite musician, but if he was talking about Coltrane, Elvin, Pharoah, Tyner, Garrison....well, he was wrong. I somehow think that quote was directed at this group though. I also doubt Miles didn't "understand" this music. He had some pretty abstract music also. Check out "Live at the Fillmore"
The best stuff from that era was actually that the rest of the band was doing acid.. strangely enough, everyone except for Miles. This was said to my best friend personally by Dave Holland when at the Village Vanguard, my friend Glenn Applebaum was the sound guy there for 15 years.
The idea that people are defensive about a substance's role in jazz music is highly suspicious. The musicians themselves weren't locked into such a juvenile debate about if it was 'necessary' or not', it just was.
I think at one time many musicians emulated Charlie Parker and his addictions so they could try to play like him.
Miles, kicked heroin and was clean for many years, but later on started doing coke. Apparently he thought coke was way worse than the heroin habit. I doubt either made him a better musician of course.
This is one of the most astute comments I've ever read man, excellent.
I have been saying this for years about Pink Floyd, that there was a mathematical language of patterns, not random but with a poignant personality and style, which is native to LSD itself, which I believe Coltrane and Floyd, strange as they are to mention together, diligently pursued channeling. Even Floyd lyrics did this..accents where the caps are, OFthefaCESinthecrowd, ifYOUwishthey'reONthedish.. most people are deaf.
Yeah, I've been listening to those Pink Floyd records lately. Certainly something like "Shine On" Part 2 shows how deeply steeped in blues/jazz architecture those fellas were. Naming a "rock" recording that comes near the heights of Coltrane (in the same aesthetic/language), maybe Allman Brothers at the Fillmore, Hendrix, sometimes, Pink Floyd, sometimes. I like "Bike," too, but that's more pop/psychedelic than this soul-detonating shit.
@opinioninflicting HA! It's the MUSICALITY of the lyrics on Bike, man, like I was trying to illustrate before, the content is totally sarcastic, retarded, the thing people like about it is what made them LAUGH at those people, they didn't get it AT ALL. "The words had different meeeeaning.. yess..they..did.." -Syd Barrett
@ambientgreg I'm not sure I understand the question but I'd try to answer if you cold clarify
What I mean is this, like those 'Magic Eye' drawings where you have to cross your eyes to see the 'hidden' ..but definitely real, intentionally placed.. image
Music by people who did.. eh not just did, but really listened to, lsd and such, they did this with musical phrasing, so that you have to 'cross your ears', I'm suggesting, by way of eating the same substances they did, to 'decode' it properly
you can say "nana na - na nana" like a kid teasing, or disguise such a phrase in something which on the outside seems reserved and astute, just by phrasing the 6 'na's differently
and when someone's high enough, they will hear the inflection they way you intended if you know how to lay it in there properly, even tho the phrase is stretched across the measure in such a way as to be 'discreet' and not so child-like
this is the essence of Pink Floyd, and (few) great jazz players
@fatchants Pink Floyd..never understood, never liked...perhaps you´re right.bout LSD.. .but whre do I find my acid? nowadays it´s difficult. This is the closest I get,.. ;)
---
this is not best trane, but if one has ears, it´s a good trip, sure. I´ve done some free-blowing myself listened to avant-garde stuff and YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUCCESS AND FAILURE. And this is a true success, you can´t really do it much better, i believe. some floks just don´t get it. sorry for them...
Nice. Or enough to look like you suck or look casual like it's easy when it's wrenching to get it out.. Jimi Hendrix was real into this. On his better nights, not the pop albums.
the most fearless no sell out music ever made. talk about pushing the expressive envelope of your instrument to the max and then into the abyss and truly not giving a flying f**k what anybody thought. sun ra, john gilmore, archie shepp and albert ayler led the way but trane and pharoah just made the air in the room bleed. not for the faint of heart or spirit indeed.
seeing hell and seeing God are sort of the same thing. You see both. It's the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Agreeably some of this stuff was more fun to play than to listen to, but.. really, you should try listening to it in the frame of mind they were in when they recorded it.
This stuff is mind-bending, and not in as a chaotic way as you'd think, more mathematically sound.. when you're dosed and listening carefully.
I don't know whose X-ray that was but it looks like they're missing some teefez! LOL!
It takes a lot of soul searching before anyone can appreciate this music. I've obviously not gotten there yet! Although I still do hear some elements of the Trane I know and love even in this.
Coltrane at one point goes into the extrapolations that he is well known for. But Pharoah is just too out there!!!! Sounds like animal noises!
Fall 1967, I'd invited my English professor to a chicken dinner with herb for dessert. As it was his 1st experience he asjed if he could bring some special music he wanted to hear "jazzed". Great! I had some music surprises for him. As a budding rock and blues quitarist I thought the 1-2 punch of Jimi Hendrix and Larry Coryell w/ Steve Marcus on "Count's Rock Band" would be sufficient. The Professor trumped me with "Om" and "Ascension" and I was never the same, ever again.
ehhh...Sanders did undercut 2nd Coltrane solos with ensemble playing. But then again Coltrane often sucked in those years, after this 65 burst in Om and Meditations and the live shows. He didn't find his voice on tenor again until "Interstellar Space" and then he died. But how can you play confident when Pharoah is better (but less populist) than you? Long soloes...which Pharoah interrupted, by the sound of it, with ensemble playing only interesting to people actually on acid.
hey, im going to ask you to take the time to explain yours and Kanji's comment, as i am very interested in the context of both of your statements. i wasn't familiar with these sentiments and consider myself a devoted coltrane fan. So could you enlighten me a bit. id appreciate it
Coltrane usually soloed at length at the end of songs, unlike jazz tradition, where it went leader/follower. In the "Live in Japan" era Coltrane would be getting into a second solo, and Pharoah would cut in on Coltrane's second solo. I figured Coltrane let it be, the way Miles let him play at greater lengths when they played together. I also feel like Pharoah only cut in when he wasn't feeling it, and I have a hard time getting into Coltrane in 1966. It was like he was looking for a new sound.
I assume Kanji is just coming from the traditionalist jazz perspective, where they're anti-free jazz. I'm very pro-Pharoah, but in retrospect it was tragic those Coltrane solos were cut off. The ensemble playing is cool on Ascension and Meditations, but the solos are the heart of it. Om, especially, I find unlistenable except for the solos.
I believe threatening to kill someone in writing is a criminal offense punishable by arrest.. at least in my country.. I strongly recommend you delete this immediately, however stupid you are.
im am as devoted as it gets and i love pharoah sanders. He was almost like an extention of coltrane into the younger generation. Pharoah is one of the best players ever, on some recordings he even outshines trane which is not to be taken lightly
And they gave free-jazz-idiot John Zorn the Macarthur Genius Grant. Pharoah's been trying to connect to the audience for 40 fucking years. John Zorn doesn't even know what the notes mean.
Listening to the drums is the easiest way to get into this music...
DanDjembe 2 months ago
Minchia...
bomberino76 2 months ago
The raw intensity of this is fantastic, but it could benefit from not being everyone going all the time. I prefer records like Live At The Village Vanguard Again! and Meditations because there's a lot more listening and interaction going on.
Flatwound1000 4 months ago
Comment removed
FabledSoup 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Flatwound1000 there's plenty of communication going on here mr jazz officer, just not in a mode that you're accustomed to
FabledSoup 2 months ago
Haha, why is the artist listed as Michael Brecker?
Flatwound1000 4 months ago
ｺﾙﾄﾚｰﾝ"OM"での､ﾌｧﾗｵ･ｻﾝﾀﾞｰｽの猛烈ｿﾛ～胸がスク､むずがゆい､胃が痛む､蒸し蒸しする～～いずれにしろｻｲｺｰだ! #jazzm
blackandtanful 4 months ago
30 thumbs up and I will play this music around town at full volume
TheDodoman3000 6 months ago 7
from 4:30 music goes so ecstatic
earthless1990 7 months ago
difficolt for a classic jazz blues musician like me.... ...but i can feel something inside... i can.t explay how this became music but is alternate way to speak with the instruments... anyway amazing!!!!
G.
baronesharade 8 months ago
incredibly good
absolutelyabsolutely 8 months ago
@bigachman210 - shut up fool, don't try to understand what you can't
123Mrjazz 10 months ago
If art is the enciphering of raw emotion, reason and being, this is an apotheosis. Otherwise listen to your pop and play your video games. The sixties were a pivotal time in history, and if this doesn't reach into your heart from the fourth dimension, and give it a twirl, then you are esthetically dead meat.
CRABNEBULA1054 11 months ago
this is hte most amazing thing I have every experience
MindtalkerJazzGroup 11 months ago
The horns are so close they feel like they are playing inside the listener's body. The accompanying instruments sound so distant. Don't suppose this effect was intentional. Horns sound so alive and present --- and dry to the bone.
nobodady1 11 months ago
This is so beautiful. Don't judge, just experience it. Definitely part of God's soundtrack. Peace to all.
saxnova 11 months ago
This record scared the daylights out of me. Especially when one member of the band says the word "OM" but growls it out.
ssur55 11 months ago
Ah, so THIS is how a saxophone should be used!
I have only ever really heard saxophones used in horrible mid-80's rock ballads, and they piss me off so much.
But this... this... I like this.
Respect!
Jarren202 1 year ago
@Jarren202 I understand you so much - easy listening smooth jazz and new age fuckin sucks
earthless1990 7 months ago
What the hell is all the talk about LSD. To me the Om record is among the deepest music I've heard. It takes me to new level of consciousness, and the strange thing is that I don't dig the Brotzmann / european thing at all. This has so much intensity, so much soul. And I ain't posin, my fave Coltrane album is ballads anyways...
SlikkTim 1 year ago
bigachman210, you are an ignorant person that doesn't want to get out his comfort zone and see music for what it really is. Ridiculous stuff
banjoboy1946 1 year ago
you know what, you guys are all right...im a close minded idiot i guess =/
bigachman210 1 year ago
nice spanking in the end hehe
MaaartenMusic 1 year ago
Got the full track. I'm in love!!!! It also sounds less sharp in the mids
MaaartenMusic 1 year ago
I've got some Mescaline, would listening to this on it explode my head or enlighten me? :]
Valfader 1 year ago
If you don't like this, that's fine. It's not for everyone.
But saying that it's just noise and garbage makes you a plebeian.
tehninjadude 1 year ago
This music is great!!! and Those who do not like it do not have to listen to it. Those who have an appreciation and understanding of this level of expression are rewarded when the hear OM!!
slybear525 1 year ago 2
WOW. I don't like jazz but this free jazz craziness explode my head. opinioninflicting, can you recommend me some modern artists
earthless1990 1 year ago
they always hit the divine note of om
F
spuddypablo 1 year ago
Trane is literally trying to communicate with God through his saxophone. What do you think that's gonna sound like?
Applemask 1 year ago
@Applemask yes! people dont seem to understand that. rumor has it that he was on an acid trip during this record but none of it has ever been able to be proven true.
FreshMaverick 1 year ago
Wish I could find out how to play like the piece from 4:53 till 5:03.
I know some nasty fingerings, but this beats all!
MaaartenMusic 1 year ago
Comment removed
bl4kb0xprotocol 1 year ago
I absolutely love this shit. Technicality to the fuckin 8th.
Fuck all you limp wristed pansies. This is balls to the wall.
You want sop? Go elsewhere...
ExtremeBogom 1 year ago
I bought this album years ago when I was first getting into jazz cause I thought the cover art looked cool. The first time I put it on the turntable I listened for 30 secs or so and they immediately turned it off, thinking it was absolute rubbish. Now that I hear this again after gaining an appreciation for more conventional styles of jazz, this doesnt sound like a bunch of noise anymore. On the contrary it is actually quite enjoyable to listen to.
lunasurface 1 year ago
i can feel the L.S.D i like the shubaka sound at the end. so intens
ericrob2112 1 year ago
i can feel the L.S.D
ericrob2112 1 year ago
There's a musical joke at the end. It's great.
red4macjc 1 year ago
CRAZY!
herbeaver 1 year ago
Thank you for this! Perfect choice of background image
ScribesOfFire 1 year ago
there's being original and unique and out there,and then there's this,all i'll say
mwk89 1 year ago
when they start goin "om om" its fucking scary as hell at night.
jazzcombo251 1 year ago
This is amazing. I would love to hear all of this.
ErikJohnsonrules 1 year ago
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are you all retarded? this isnt amazing, or a masterpiece or any of that crap. this was a bunch of musicians on an acid trip fucking around with their instruments at like 4 am. dont get me wrong, they are some amazing musicians, but they werent going for anything here. all you people who are like "this is amazing music" cut the crap. if it was a bunch of high school kids who did the exact same thing you would complain that its noise and really bad. so shut up
bigachman210 1 year ago
@bigachman210 i know,even my jazz history teacher said LSD was prob. involved here,not getting how this is deep and meaningful,painful is more like it
mwk89 1 year ago
@mwk89 thank you. only other smart person on this page
bigachman210 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@bigachman210 yo ach agreed. i can't believe all the crap spewing from people about how freakin awesome this is. its effin hilarious!!!
musicfreak9191 1 year ago
@musicfreak9191 This is like animal porn. It's not for everyone.
opinioninflicting 1 year ago 7
@opinioninflicting I love this music...I'll pass on the animal porn, though.
999manman 1 year ago
@opinioninflicting True, but not a good comparison.
Applemask 1 year ago
@opinioninflicting Unlike animal porn, though, it's not exclusively for horrendous people.
Applemask 10 months ago
@musicfreak9191
honestly this isn't TRYING to be weird. It's free jazz though. what did you expect?
groalerable 1 year ago
@bigachman210 I've been listening to contemporary free jazz saxophonists for years, and none of them are particularly good but Peter Brotzmann. You simply don't have the ear for this presently. Don't be an imbecile. It's a mimetic representation of human consciousness (duh?) which can release emotional power for people so constituted to hear it as such. It's pretty simple.
opinioninflicting 1 year ago 10
@bigachman210 Ignorance fucked you up.
RitualeSatanas 1 year ago
@bigachman210 I just want to tell you that people who like are not retard or on acid trip, they just like non conventional music.Because music with a structure can become a kind of barrier for creation, those musicians break it thats all.So why are you here to throw comments that somebody like me will tell you that you just don't have the free mind of convention to appreciate a music like this. Well I'm not mad at you,but I'm telling you that music here is free,same if it can sound annoying.
birdsk83 1 year ago
@bigachman210 Why don't you go live in the mountains somewhere and stop bothering everyone. Youve got a personality like a dead moth.
BobbyBluntandthafunk 1 year ago
@BobbyBluntandthafunk listen, im just saying that this is garbage, and is the result of acid. i love coltrane. i love pharoah. but this is just garbage. it is literally just a few guys picking up instruments and making noise. just because i dont like it does not mean i do nto have personality. coltrane himself hated this and never wanted it released. he knew that it was garbage, and it is. ask any fuckin jazz historian and they will all tell you the same thing. this is garbage.
bigachman210 1 year ago
@bigachman210 I'm possibly the world's biggest late-period Coltrane fan--and yeah, some free-jazz IS garbage--much of "Om" is a very weird kind of LSD-inspired crap (cacophonous excess)--but I find some solos (not all) in late-period Coltrane to be "the most powerful human sound[s] ever recorded," as the original Downbeat reviewer for "Ascension" said. Coltrane ran with his "My Favorite Things" aesthetic--taking it to an unprecedented aesthetic oblivion. But it's still Charlie Parker--in soul.
opinioninflicting 1 year ago
@opinioninflicting i completely agree...my favorite things is one of my favorite recordings of coltrane...im not hating coltrane at all and i love a lot of his "free" soloes but not this
bigachman210 1 year ago
@bigachman210 If you ever read about what African Americans were going through during the sixties, I think you might understand this as an evolution of the bebop crusade. Its message is more direct and a little less polite than its predecessor, but it states itself much more assertively and directly. This is ANGRY BLACK MUSIC. So, in conclusion, You're the one who is "retarded" on this subject... I could go much further, but I don't think its worth talking musical aesthetics with a musical lout.
bl4kb0xprotocol 1 year ago
@bl4kb0xprotocol ehhh i dont think this is angry black music. its more like Coltrane trying to communicate with god. i dont think its angry at all.
FreshMaverick 1 year ago
@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
guitarnick28 1 year ago
@guitarnick28 Psychedelic = Hendrix, Floyd, King Crimson, ect,and don't give that line of BS saying no one can understand this shity music. This is very strenuous to the ears and imo any amateur player can make this noise. You must be a John Coltrane Fan-Boy.
southsaturndelta220 1 year ago
@southsaturndelta220 Oh yea I'm sure any amateur can move chromatically through an alto sax like that. He's playing in fucking 24th notes through octaves. You obviously have never tried to play a brass instrument. And when the sounds get real strange and become "strenuous to your (gentle) ears," I'm appreciating the original tones hes creating on an instrument he's mastered.
guitarnick28 1 year ago
@guitarnick28 lol id never try to play brass instruments they all sound bad imo, ill stick to my drums and maybe try some strings. And his playing sounds 100% random stoned out of his mind, it sounds like a fly that keeps buzzing around your head(annoying). Maybe some people dig chunky /squirrelly/shred music, i feel sorry for them. If you insist this sounds good, then have fun with your noise.
southsaturndelta220 1 year ago
@southsaturndelta220 Good point. This music IS rather "chunky." Nice to have had a conversation with someone that knows nothing about music. Enjoy Nickelback.
guitarnick28 1 year ago
@guitarnick28 Nty ill stick to Hendrix Sabbath Zeppelin Floyd old blues ect, Enjoy your noise.
southsaturndelta220 1 year ago
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guitarnick28 1 year ago
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@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
guitarnick28 1 year ago
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@bigachman210 Just because you don't understand atonal music or ambient listening doesn't mean it's not good. I'm sorry if you enjoy nickelback and other garbage on the radio that brainwashed you into only considering 4/4 signatures and verse-chorus-verse structures music. These songs are the origins of well done psychedelic music, so go suck a fat one.
guitarnick28 1 year ago
@bigachman210 The high school kids would be playing crap, because they could not transition, and transform to amazing playin!
jamminjoeus 1 year ago
@bigachman210
A bunch of high school kids doing this wouldn't be of the ilk of these musicians. They wouldn't know all of the rules, then proceed to break them. If you view this simply as "a bunch of musicians on an acid trip fucking around with their instruments at like 4 am" you clearly have no soul and are probably a white guy with an alphabetized cd collection and a really tidy haircut.
tonguepunchmyfartbox 1 year ago 3
@bigachman210 yo man a bunch of highschoolers with no knowledge of music theory would not be able to accomplish this... infact a bunch of kids from highschool would probably write something like a crude diad progression in drop d. i got that you don't like it bro but i mean that doesn't mean its inherently bad like some girls like it in the ass and some don't... its a matter of what pleasing to the self and my ears tell me this is expressive and beautiful
acceptthevoid 1 year ago
@bigachman210 music effects everyone differently, i for one DO like it, yea its different its not my main source of inspiration but hey different strokes for different folks.
HendrixClaptonSRV 1 year ago
@bigachman210 I used to think the same but as I listened to more and more advanced music, modal or atonal music like the complex sequences and timing of Indian ragas and Oud music I eventually developed the "ears" to hear Coltrane. It took me 10 years at least. Now when I hear a piece like this I can grab hold of Trane and follow him hearing the amazing complexity and brilliance. This is really stunning stuff - the musical equivalent of a 1000 yard broad jump. Please don't trash Trane.
broadpath 1 year ago 2
@bigachman210 "I don't understand this stuff - I don't see how you guys can listen to it!" is a legitimate reaction. "This stuff is terrible - you guys are crazy if you actually enjoy this!" is also a legitimate reaction. "This stuff is bullshit and you guys are only pretending to like it!" is NOT a legitimate reaction! Yes, some of us actually love this and have listened to it often enough that what sounds like NOISE to you sounds like MUSIC to us! Deal with it.
vonbontee 1 year ago
@bigachman210 this is musical exploration at it's best.. you have a closed mind..
worldbadness 1 year ago
@bigachman210 i actually agree with you haha
tycoon121 11 months ago 4
@bigachman210 You said it all
Basisforstace 11 months ago
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@bigachman210 if it was a bunch of high school kids who did it i would enjoy it. actually, sometimes with my friends we play intruments and make a lot of noise, and it's amusing, you should try. 'everyone can do that', it is 50% right (the other 50% of my brain keeps thinking this solos by Coltrane are awesome and rare), but that is positive. Probably Lester Bangs explains it better than me
MrThewingwalker 5 months ago
@bigachman210 You mad
bananasnvaseline 4 months ago
When I first heard Pharoah Sanders I thought he was just making noise. Gradually, I came to learn about the value of "dissonance" in life. It breaks up stagnation. Pharoah uses his sax in a similar way to a shaman playing a didgeridoo, or to the way Stefan Grof used Holotropic Breathwork to simulate all traumatic life changes from birth onward. "Creator Has A Master Plan" and "Hum Allah" follow this natural progression from be, to change, to being at a higher level...
mmandmm9 1 year ago
This is still some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard... a year after hearing it...
MagicRain505 1 year ago
that last whine you talk about sounds like Chubaca omg thats fuckin sick!!!!!
andyyhitscar 1 year ago
WHAT!!!! you're really gonna cut it at that point???? i feel like i've just ran into a wall at 50 mph
conspiratordrew 1 year ago
OH MY GOD! LOVE THIS
npg4life 1 year ago
i not only enjoy this, it is one of my top 3 favorite John Coltrane songs/albums
louderthanlife2 1 year ago
This is it !
:-)
denbrunemil 1 year ago
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KitMackintosh1 1 year ago
To arjiownsurmum- Pharoah evokes those sort of timbres, if you like them check out The Olatunji Concert: The Last Live Recording, amazing.
KitMackintosh1 1 year ago
yeah. not only did it have to go here, and beyond here, but I actually enjoy this to some degree. thank you for posting and sorry for repeating what some other well-informed person has already said this.
flanissimo 1 year ago
sounds like people screaming at 2:54..werid
arjiownsurmum 1 year ago
Excellent, woy reed he usin'? wot kinda mouthpiece? wot make of sax? etc etc etc? . fekin awsome music
usfins 1 year ago
Chewbacca makes a cameo at 7:53.
probly the only good part of the song
idlehands1111111111 1 year ago
I don't usually like Free Jazz that much - On the Corner is basically my limit - but I believe in this.
Applemask 1 year ago 2
Number One !! .....
On the PysOps Top 20 List (Nightmare Heaven)
skihills 2 years ago
someone out there issue this back on cd
this is post love supreme coltrane heaven
motherbrain86 2 years ago 2
can anyone get me a transcription of this? i need to learn it for a wedding.
jloch85 2 years ago 46
Just give everybody shrooms before hand. Then anything you play will sound just like it!
osensei2987 2 years ago
a lot of shrooms
TheKeiouki 1 year ago
What?...You trying to break up the marriage before it even starts?
skihills 2 years ago
@jloch85 hahaha
bimwopbarn 1 year ago
@jloch85 I can't get you a transcription, but I can give you a formula for playing this way. Before you play do not go to the bathroom, when you are on stage playing and you really have to go bad, especially if it is #2, play like they are playing in a way that will keep you from going to the bathroom on yourself. It takes skill to play that way, because you have to play in context throughout, that styler of playing takes alot of concentration.
jamminjoeus 1 year ago
@jloch85 lol
leegee23 1 year ago
@jloch85 Wanna go to that wedding.
Applemask 10 months ago
I remember sitting in the Crystal all night restaurant in Cleveland around 3 am in 1968 with my friend Frank G. who was whistling and playing OM on his harmonica.
AstroElk 2 years ago
This is the session according to Bill Cole's biography of John Coltrane where he had tried LSD. It was part of his ongoing search & LSD was not yet illegal.
robertd1253 2 years ago
The rumor is that Coltrane had Excessive Compulsive Disorder! I believe there is something to that rumor. Because if you listen to Coltrane carefully you notice that he often repeats the same phrases over and over again but with slight variations on each iteration! It's like he can't get rid of a theme or motif until he has worked out all of its permutations!
osensei2987 2 years ago
It's called _Obsessive_ Compulsive Disorder, and it's part of being a great musician. lol.
fatchants 2 years ago
@fatchants Thanks for striking a match to my brain fart! I know what OCD is, but for some reason, what I typed came out fuck up! LOL!
Seems like that's the hazard of leaving comments on youtube! LOL!
Thanks again!
osensei2987 2 years ago
D R Garrett seems was the 2nd bassman. Joe Brazil plays flute. All musicians turned to small percussion or bells when they were not soloing in that period. Something Rashied Ali hated profoundly. Did you know that R Ali is never mentioned on the official Coltrane site ? How sad and stupid ! grtz j
1foradime 2 years ago
This music gets to the core. Great story about the broken saxophone ! thx j
1foradime 2 years ago
Free Jazz Rules the Earth, Thank god they are not playing Autumn Leaves or Eighties suspenders :P
Other music is just the pretense of music where as this is real expression.
Yay!
aghoranathi 2 years ago
lol
fatchants 2 years ago
haha chewbacca at 7:53
and 5:12 sounds like someone screaming
Lemke68 2 years ago
if you like this, you might like:
bury us all - as i lay dying
this calling - all that remains
crawl through knives -in flames
brandoboy1312 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
shut up nigger
jman93j 2 years ago
great tune....only the true jazz people will enjoy the sounds of this....im 22 and somtimes hard to find proplr that like this shit....not that it matters but this is a good tune.....
dohdoh111 2 years ago
lmao it sounds like Chubawca at 7:53
Glapo 2 years ago 2
garrett was the other bassist
mattdrummist 2 years ago
there's sucking at an instrument, then there's being good enough to sound like you suck.
jloch85 2 years ago
The grammar of the music was pretty solidly, organically evolved by the musicians, out of jazz tradition. Superficial aspects sound amateurish, but the the instruments squeal with a GRAMMAR, if you understand what they're expressing. Try to listen to some John Cage theoretical musician wail on saxophone, if you're attuned, you'll quickly discern they have no idea what they're saying. Like Miles Davis (who didn't understand this music) said: some people don't know what the notes mean.
opinioninflicting 2 years ago
u could say that miles didnt understand this music but it wasnt really his style he went in a differentmusical direction and u cant judge him for that.
but that statement is very true ths musi is very harmonically and rhythmically complex and most people dont understand it.
so at the same time as enjoying the music i can understand entirely at wat jloch85 is saying as i have had to come from that view point to be able to like it.
bob644352 2 years ago
@bob644352 well.. Miles didn't do acid.
That's why the Who wrote a song about his seeing-eye dog.
fatchants 2 years ago
@fatchants and wat song would that be?
bob644352 2 years ago
"I Can See For Miles"
fatchants 2 years ago
oh
my
fuck
el oh el!
nepalnt21 2 years ago
Seriously, Miles didn't understand it because it was over his head, not because he just went in a different direction, which should not have to do with understanding the music. Coltrane, at least at this time period (post December '64), was playing truly psychedelic jazz.
fatchants 2 years ago
Why does all music have to be understood? Maybe Miles just didn't like it. Some people like chicken some like pizza, why does someone have to be correct? Do you have to understand pizza? I don't like this stuff he did, neither did MyCoy and Elvin. Doesn't mean we are right or wrong. There is a rather sudden shift in sound which could well mean LSD, but also it could be the fact that he could have had the start of cancer at this point. Fantastic musician either way.
flybynight420 2 years ago
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fatchants 2 years ago
Miles is my alltime favorite musician, but if he was talking about Coltrane, Elvin, Pharoah, Tyner, Garrison....well, he was wrong. I somehow think that quote was directed at this group though. I also doubt Miles didn't "understand" this music. He had some pretty abstract music also. Check out "Live at the Fillmore"
wholetruthaboutabs 2 years ago
The best stuff from that era was actually that the rest of the band was doing acid.. strangely enough, everyone except for Miles. This was said to my best friend personally by Dave Holland when at the Village Vanguard, my friend Glenn Applebaum was the sound guy there for 15 years.
The idea that people are defensive about a substance's role in jazz music is highly suspicious. The musicians themselves weren't locked into such a juvenile debate about if it was 'necessary' or not', it just was.
fatchants 2 years ago
I think at one time many musicians emulated Charlie Parker and his addictions so they could try to play like him.
Miles, kicked heroin and was clean for many years, but later on started doing coke. Apparently he thought coke was way worse than the heroin habit. I doubt either made him a better musician of course.
ipings 2 years ago
This is one of the most astute comments I've ever read man, excellent.
I have been saying this for years about Pink Floyd, that there was a mathematical language of patterns, not random but with a poignant personality and style, which is native to LSD itself, which I believe Coltrane and Floyd, strange as they are to mention together, diligently pursued channeling. Even Floyd lyrics did this..accents where the caps are, OFthefaCESinthecrowd, ifYOUwishthey'reONthedish.. most people are deaf.
fatchants 2 years ago 2
Yeah, I've been listening to those Pink Floyd records lately. Certainly something like "Shine On" Part 2 shows how deeply steeped in blues/jazz architecture those fellas were. Naming a "rock" recording that comes near the heights of Coltrane (in the same aesthetic/language), maybe Allman Brothers at the Fillmore, Hendrix, sometimes, Pink Floyd, sometimes. I like "Bike," too, but that's more pop/psychedelic than this soul-detonating shit.
opinioninflicting 2 years ago 3
@opinioninflicting
Santana from the mid 1970's!
Caravanserai
Love Devotion and Surrender w/ Mahavishnu John Mc Laughlin and Davedip Carlos Santana
Welcome
Illumination w/ Alice Coltrane and Carlos Santana
Borboletta
osensei2987 2 years ago
@opinioninflicting HA! It's the MUSICALITY of the lyrics on Bike, man, like I was trying to illustrate before, the content is totally sarcastic, retarded, the thing people like about it is what made them LAUGH at those people, they didn't get it AT ALL. "The words had different meeeeaning.. yess..they..did.." -Syd Barrett
fatchants 1 year ago
@opinioninflicting I would include The Doors in that list too.
Psikonort 1 year ago
@fatchants I'm curious as to why you relate channeling to the phrasing of the lyrics or to musical phrasing?
ambientgreg 1 year ago
@ambientgreg I'm not sure I understand the question but I'd try to answer if you cold clarify
What I mean is this, like those 'Magic Eye' drawings where you have to cross your eyes to see the 'hidden' ..but definitely real, intentionally placed.. image
Music by people who did.. eh not just did, but really listened to, lsd and such, they did this with musical phrasing, so that you have to 'cross your ears', I'm suggesting, by way of eating the same substances they did, to 'decode' it properly
fatchants 1 year ago
@ambientgreg
you can say "nana na - na nana" like a kid teasing, or disguise such a phrase in something which on the outside seems reserved and astute, just by phrasing the 6 'na's differently
and when someone's high enough, they will hear the inflection they way you intended if you know how to lay it in there properly, even tho the phrase is stretched across the measure in such a way as to be 'discreet' and not so child-like
this is the essence of Pink Floyd, and (few) great jazz players
fatchants 1 year ago
@fatchants Pink Floyd..never understood, never liked...perhaps you´re right.bout LSD.. .but whre do I find my acid? nowadays it´s difficult. This is the closest I get,.. ;)
---
this is not best trane, but if one has ears, it´s a good trip, sure. I´ve done some free-blowing myself listened to avant-garde stuff and YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUCCESS AND FAILURE. And this is a true success, you can´t really do it much better, i believe. some floks just don´t get it. sorry for them...
vulvatronic 1 year ago
wow perfectly said, to be honest
elmstreet777 2 years ago
Nice. Or enough to look like you suck or look casual like it's easy when it's wrenching to get it out.. Jimi Hendrix was real into this. On his better nights, not the pop albums.
fatchants 2 years ago
free jazz for kids, thanks John!
r0udy 2 years ago 2
Try listen to this with the eyes closed. You won't need any stupid substance to experience this trance.
Saloq 2 years ago
i absolutely love coltrane but this sounds like a donkey getting raped around 4:34
haha
Anim8edDeath 2 years ago
i didnt want to but you made me laugh!!! especially at 5:15 hahahaha
whykatera81 2 years ago
the most fearless no sell out music ever made. talk about pushing the expressive envelope of your instrument to the max and then into the abyss and truly not giving a flying f**k what anybody thought. sun ra, john gilmore, archie shepp and albert ayler led the way but trane and pharoah just made the air in the room bleed. not for the faint of heart or spirit indeed.
blackrocknutt 2 years ago 6
ok, that scared the shit out of me.
you sure coltrane wasn't seeing hell instead of god?
I love coltrane but this is a bit too much for me I guess
boertush 2 years ago
seeing hell and seeing God are sort of the same thing. You see both. It's the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Agreeably some of this stuff was more fun to play than to listen to, but.. really, you should try listening to it in the frame of mind they were in when they recorded it.
This stuff is mind-bending, and not in as a chaotic way as you'd think, more mathematically sound.. when you're dosed and listening carefully.
fatchants 2 years ago
And then there was Pharoah Sanders!!!! @ 5:00
whykatera81 2 years ago
john and the boys are on LSD25 for this one...
velvetgonzo 2 years ago
This is what I think, I can hear it in there.. or at very least "herbs of healing and food" cooked in "the clarified butter"
I can't believe how many people miss the meaning of that in the intro.
Anyway thanks for your support. l-oh-l.
fatchants 2 years ago
One of the most expressive and impressing pieces in Jazz-history!
therealjamelmar 2 years ago 3
Pharoah and Trane both saw the light of GOD expressed as spiritual flo. Rapturous!
khemetcom 2 years ago
I had never heard the later stuff, until now!
Ledvolta 2 years ago
spooky
jmet718 2 years ago
I don't know whose X-ray that was but it looks like they're missing some teefez! LOL!
It takes a lot of soul searching before anyone can appreciate this music. I've obviously not gotten there yet! Although I still do hear some elements of the Trane I know and love even in this.
Coltrane at one point goes into the extrapolations that he is well known for. But Pharoah is just too out there!!!! Sounds like animal noises!
osensei2987 2 years ago
dam pharoah is so powerful on this!!! just makes you say SHIT!!!!!!! His horn sounds as powerful as one of those foghorns on ships
whykatera81 2 years ago
Fall 1967, I'd invited my English professor to a chicken dinner with herb for dessert. As it was his 1st experience he asjed if he could bring some special music he wanted to hear "jazzed". Great! I had some music surprises for him. As a budding rock and blues quitarist I thought the 1-2 punch of Jimi Hendrix and Larry Coryell w/ Steve Marcus on "Count's Rock Band" would be sufficient. The Professor trumped me with "Om" and "Ascension" and I was never the same, ever again.
enorbet2 3 years ago 2
And this is the reason why all devoted Coltrane fans hated Pharoah Sanders! "He ruined the King"!
KanjiHanzi 3 years ago
ehhh...Sanders did undercut 2nd Coltrane solos with ensemble playing. But then again Coltrane often sucked in those years, after this 65 burst in Om and Meditations and the live shows. He didn't find his voice on tenor again until "Interstellar Space" and then he died. But how can you play confident when Pharoah is better (but less populist) than you? Long soloes...which Pharoah interrupted, by the sound of it, with ensemble playing only interesting to people actually on acid.
opinioninflicting 3 years ago
hey, im going to ask you to take the time to explain yours and Kanji's comment, as i am very interested in the context of both of your statements. i wasn't familiar with these sentiments and consider myself a devoted coltrane fan. So could you enlighten me a bit. id appreciate it
gomachols 3 years ago
Coltrane usually soloed at length at the end of songs, unlike jazz tradition, where it went leader/follower. In the "Live in Japan" era Coltrane would be getting into a second solo, and Pharoah would cut in on Coltrane's second solo. I figured Coltrane let it be, the way Miles let him play at greater lengths when they played together. I also feel like Pharoah only cut in when he wasn't feeling it, and I have a hard time getting into Coltrane in 1966. It was like he was looking for a new sound.
opinioninflicting 3 years ago
I assume Kanji is just coming from the traditionalist jazz perspective, where they're anti-free jazz. I'm very pro-Pharoah, but in retrospect it was tragic those Coltrane solos were cut off. The ensemble playing is cool on Ascension and Meditations, but the solos are the heart of it. Om, especially, I find unlistenable except for the solos.
opinioninflicting 3 years ago
he understand what youre feeling
wii6tomoki 2 years ago
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wii6tomoki 2 years ago
this is the best comment in this history of youtube hahaha
thereagauze 2 years ago 6
LOL
wii6tomoki 2 years ago 3
LMAO hahaha grrrrrreat!
brianstainless 2 years ago
I believe threatening to kill someone in writing is a criminal offense punishable by arrest.. at least in my country.. I strongly recommend you delete this immediately, however stupid you are.
fatchants 2 years ago
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xtomokixx 2 years ago
im am as devoted as it gets and i love pharoah sanders. He was almost like an extention of coltrane into the younger generation. Pharoah is one of the best players ever, on some recordings he even outshines trane which is not to be taken lightly
edcerc 2 years ago
And they gave free-jazz-idiot John Zorn the Macarthur Genius Grant. Pharoah's been trying to connect to the audience for 40 fucking years. John Zorn doesn't even know what the notes mean.
opinioninflicting 2 years ago