You don't know the bible, I Corinthians 15:54 "This moral must put on immortality" the scriptures make it clear that the dead are dead, onlly God has immortality- I Tim. 6:16. You error and are believing the first lie that satan told Eve, you shall not surely die, but be as God. This is spiritualism, and we must not wrestle with the scriptures to make them say what we want to believe and ignore the rest. We must compare scripture with scripture. The Spirit if the breath of life, that's all.
Thanks for all the feedback, I'll have to start a new thread here because of the too many comments. As far as spirit is concerned Jesus was a flesh body, resurrected as flesh, but He's Spirit now as clarified in Rev 2:7-8. "Hear what the SPIRIT saith - who died & lived again". Jesus is God, the same SPIRIT who ATE with Abraham in Gen 18:8 "& They did eat". Jesus was flesh, resurrected as flesh, but he became spirit when He ascended to the father as the father as 1 unseen omnipresent Holy Spirit
Cont: so when we die we too shall be as He is, as a glorified, resurrected SPIRIT. Keep in mind that "God is a spirit" John 4:24. Jesus is God the 1 Holy Spirit who's "everywhere at once" Mat 18:20. Angels are spirits, & when we die we too shall be "as the angels in heaven" Mat 22:30, Lk 20:36.
Your guys misunderstanding is in your not knowing that spirit is MORE than flesh; flesh is NOT more then spirit. Flesh came from spirit, yet our spirit is made manifest AFTER the flesh dies 1 Cor15:35-36
This body which sinned does not go to heaven but the glorified body does. Jesus Christ has one of these glorified ones. Read Luke 24:39-43. He told His disciples behold my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. In verse 43, Jesus ate boiled fish. Corruptible must put on incorruption (1 cor 15:51-54). Incorruption is your glorified body which comes with imortality as well. God bless
This man is a liar/false teacher. The bible says that "flesh and blood can NOT inherit the spiritual realm, nor does perishable flesh become Spirit!". It also says that we do not resurrect till the body dies, and that we all resurrect as a spirit "each in his own order". The body NEVER goes to heaven EVER!!! "The flesh body ONLY dies and returns to dust, but the spirit returns to God who gave it". This man is a liar and the Truth is not in his words.
1Cor15:35-36Some may ask “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” HOW FOOLISH! What you sow does not come to life UNLESS IT DIES! (we will not resurrect UNLESS WE DIE. And we are ONLY resurrected as an INVISIBLE SPIRIT). 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. (flesh doesn't become spirit) 50 I declare to you, that FLESH & BLOOD cannot inherit the (unseen spiritual) kingdom of God, nor does the perishable (flesh) inherit the imperishable (spirit)
Will God have to change our bodies to consist of spirit to inherit His Kingdom? Millions of Christians can tell you exactly when they were born again. But, are they all wrong? Let's see what scripture says about our new birth, and when it takes place.
Jesus introduced this subject of the new birth to Nicodemus when He told him: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3 Jesus also taught that a man has to be born of the water and born of the spirit to enter God's Kingdom. Why so? Jesus tells him ""That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit.".
So does the spiritual birth mean God must first change you into a spirit being at the resurrection, or does He mean something else of ours must be changed BEFORE the resurrection?
We can test the spiritual body assumption, because we have at least two examples of godly people raised from the dead. The first is the large number of saints resurrected when Jesus died on the cross:
"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." Matt 27:52-53. Interesting, these raised saints got up, and walked into the city where they were seen by many. They weren't invisible.
The main example of Jesus Himself is even clearer.
"As they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." Luke 24:36-39
Jesus was not a spirit, He was real flesh & bones! So if Jesus wasn't talking about changing us into spirits to enter into His Kingdom, what exactly did Jesus mean then when He said that flesh & blood cannot inherit His Kingdom?
The word of God plainly states that flesh and spirit are two natures that continually war against each other, inside a man who has accepted Christ as Savior. "Flesh" does not refer to man's body but to his carnal, sinful nature. And "spirit" does not refer to a spirit being, but to a spiritual nature.
Two influences, good and evil, each vying for supremacy in man. "For the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary, the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Gal 5:17
Now Jesus' words have more meaning: "That which is born of flesh is flesh." We were all born with a sinful human nature, a nature with a propensity to satisfy SELF, and not the things of God. This flesh nature, ever sinful, would keep us out of heaven, were it not for a rebirth! When we are born again through Jesus' Spirit, we are born with a new nature, a spiritual nature.
"There is now therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, they that are after the spirit the things of the spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:1, 5-6
Becoming a Christian involves a new birth. It is dying to our old fleshy nature and letting Christ live in us through His Spirit, giving us His spiritual nature here, now, in this life!
"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me, And the life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Gal 2:20
@Nirky Long posts for nothing, as I know scripture. You're a Preterist with false views. But you're closer to the truth than most people. Yes we are born spiritually. No we are NOT resurrected the day we're born again. The literal resurrection of THE LITERAL DEAD is the ONLY subject of 1Cor15. v1-4 is that Jesus died; v12 is asking why they don't believe in dead persons rising; V20 states that Jesus did rise FROM THE DEAD. The rest is that we too shall rise from the LITERAL dead as a spirit.
cont: You're lost in the meanings of the words. Yes we're born again into Christ. Yes the reign/kingdom/Spirit of God is within you. No were NOT resurrected when we're born again. Yes we're dead in sin. No we're not resurrected into the spiritual realm till the body literally dies. Yes we're born again spiritually, but you're missing that there is a spirit in you that's the real you. The real you is released when your physical body dies. You are NOT resurrected from the dead flesh/body yet.
cont: You have to read 1Cor15 in its context. Forget everything you think you know & start all over with v3-4. Then read v12, then v16, 20-26, 35-36, read v36 a few more times; then v44, then read it in context v42-45; read Gen 2:7 to see that Adam means flesh/mankind; read 1 Cor15:50 to see that dead flesh doesn't resurrect at your death; read 46-55 to see that our literal death & a spiritual resurrection is the real subject. It's not about being born again, but rather that we'll rise a spirit
Jesus rose from the dead with His glorified body consisting of flesh & bones. Luke 24:39. When we rise in the resurrection we will receive a glorified body JUST LIKE HIS. Phil 3:21. So if we AREN'T changed into a spirit being when we rise, like Jesus WASN'T, what does Jesus mean when He says flesh cannot inherit His Kingdom?
As with 1 Cor 15, in Galatians chapter 5 Paul talks about flesh and spirit being two contrary NATURES of man, not what man consists of:
"For the FLESH lusteth against the SPIRIT and the SPIRIT against the FLESH. And these are contrary, the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Gal 5:17
We are BORN AGAIN when we accept His nature by His Holy Spirit, when God changes our nature to His spirit nature, an INCORRUPTIBLE one, because that new nature lives forever:
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED but INCORRUPTIBLE, through the word of God which lives and abides forever." 1 Pet 1:22-23
Those who have been BORN AGAIN, as Jesus says we MUST be to enter into His Kingdom (John 3:7), abide forever, are incorruptible. It is not because God has to first change us into spirit beings, but because everything of God's nature endures!
"All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, But the word of the LORD endures forever." 1 Pet 1:24-25
@Nirky You missed the ball I threw you. I threw a basketball & you caught a golf ball lol. You missed that all of 1 Cor 15 is ONLY saying that Jesus rose from the dead & so shall we at our deaths. But we will not resurrect a flesh body, but rather we'll resurrect as a spirit, instantly in the twinkling of an eye. FLESH DOES NOT BECOME SPIRIT; Our spirit only resurrects after we die; we are born flesh we are raised spirit. Stop twisting 1 Cor 15 to adapt to your false view! Read it in its context
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Cor 15:50
You think that flesh and blood cannot enter into His Kingdom because we must be changed first into a being made of spirit, but that isn't what Paul nor other Bible writers say, as I've already referenced several scriptures to show that. Have you read them?
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED but INCORRUPTIBLE, through the word of God which lives and abides forever." 1 Pet 1:22-23
Both Peter & Paul say when we are born again, the new birth of God's nature in us through His Spirit, we are BORN of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED, all the while still living in earthly, weak, subject to death & decay bodies. We are incorruptible even in this life in these weak bodies because our new birth. Our new birth is our new nature through Christ Jesus, just as Jesus taught Nicodemus we must be born again to enter into His Kingdom. John 3:3
Scripture tells us we are born again NOW in THIS LIFE, that is why we can inherit Jesus' Kingdom, not because He needs to change us into spirit beings! The dead in Christ are raised incorruptible--not because they have to be converted to spirit beings, but because they have already been born again with Christ's incorruptible nature.
@Nirky I'm not stupid; you're the one missing the point here not me. 1 Cor 15 is Paul speaking to the assembly about "the resurrection of THE DEAD". He says that Jesus rose from the dead & so shall we. But he clarifies that our bodies will not rise from the dead, that just our spirits will; that this flesh body must die first, then we're resurrected as an invisible spirit. There's dead in sin & then a rebirth spiritually. There's ALSO dead physically & an instantaneous resurrection as a spirit
2 Corinthians 5: Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord (AS SPIRIT). 9 Wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him.
Our spirit is the true us. When we die the body rots & disappears to dust, NEVER to be resurrected again. But our spirit, THE TRUE US, goes to God: Eccl 12:7 the dust (our DEAD bodies) returneth to the earth as it was & the spirit (the true us) returneth unto God who gave it
We're a spirit that was born as flesh & after we die we're raised a spirit again. We die to sin & are born again of the Spirit of God. We also die later physically & resurrect as a spirit; they'e not the same things
@tygew Hi there I think there is a misunderstanding of the word Spirit here. The hebrew word used here "ruwach" means breath, wind or mind not some sort of disembodied. In this context its the breath that God gave man when He created him that goes abck to God. Psalms 146:4, His breathe (ruwach) goeth fourth, He returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish. Its simply the breath that goes back to GOD. And God breathed into his nostrils the breath (ruwach) of life (Gen 2:7)
@lamua11 The misunderstanding is on your part. I have seen spirit; God is a Spirit; we too are spirit, & when we die we resurrect as a spirit. It's spirit that gives life -- NOT breath/air. As a mater of fact the word used for 'air' is pneumo, which is also translated as 'spirit'. At our deaths we are caught up into the spiritual realm, the pneumo, aka 'the air'. We are spirit not air.
@tygew Hi my friend as you will notice in my note above I used the Hebrew word (Ruwach) & not the greek word Pneuma. The hebrew word Ruwach for breath or spirit is the greek equivalent for Pneuma. The word Spirit has different meanings in both the old & new testament and it depends on the context in which its used. It can mean breath, seat of emotions, Holy Spirit or wind. Its never used to mean another being in us that leaves at death and goes in the Spiritual realm. The dead know not nothing
@tygew cont: God gives us life through the Spirit or breathe that he imparts in our nostrils. "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils" Job 27:3 You will note here that the words breath and spirit are used interchangeably. The hebrew word ruwach is used in both cases and in this context Job is talking about wind. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Gen 2:7
@tygew cont: dust +breath (or spirit)= living soul. Dust without breath the soul ceases to exist. A living soul cannot exist without either dust or air. This divine spark of breath from God is the controlling force or Humans and animals. This breath of life which is translated at times as spirit is the same found in animals. Does this imply that animals too have a spirit or are spirit? I dont think so
And behold, I even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and everything that is the earth shall die (Gen 6:17). "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, where in is the breath of life". And all flesh died that move upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of the beast and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth and every man.And in whose nostrils was the breathe of life
@tygew cont: All animals and humans in whose nostrils was the breath of life or spirit (Ruwach or pneuma) and neglected the call of Noah to enter the ark was destroyed by the flood. What returned to God was their breath of life or spirit or wind which God gave them. The breath of life that you and I have is the same as that of animals. We & animals were both created from dust and return to dust. What differs us from animals is we were created in the image & likeness of God. God bless u brother
2 Corinthians 5 talks about our assurance of the resurrection & the blessedness of being with the Lord Jesus for all eternity, nowhere does it say we will be with Him as spirit beings.
@Nirky Jesus is Spirit, the unseen omnipresent Holy Spirit. We too will be as He is, as a resurrected spirit. We too will be resurrected spirits like the angels: v44 "It is sown in corruption (as DEAD flesh) it is raised (resurrected) a spirit". v36 "How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies". Now go read 42-50 again.
@tygew Lets not ignore the first 4 verses that make the basis of what Paul is talking about. Verse 1 talks about a eathly house (our body) which if were dissolved, there is another one not made by hands eternal in the heavens. vs 2 for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with or house which is from heaven. This sinful body has no immortality hence is destroyed when we die. The one fro heaven is immortal so we earnestly groan to be clothed with immortality. cont;
@tygew cont: vs 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. Mortality brings a sense of being naked. The sense of nakedness that Adam and Eve experienced is no longer visible as a result of being clothed with the heavenly house. Vs 4 In this verse Paul states the result of being clothed with our heavenly house "that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Upon receiving the body from heaven "mortality is swallowed up but when is this? cont:
@tygew cont 1cor 15:54 Paul says "So when the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written "death is swalllowed up i victory".
The earlier verses 51 & 52 tells us that this would take place at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Those that are alive and have been walking with Jesus shall be translated. The dead in Christ shall be resurrected with new imortal bodies. "the house from Heaven"
@tygew 2 Cor 5:5-8 Paul is simply confirming what he said in earlier verses that while we are at home in these earthly bodies we are absent from the Lord. To be present with the Lord can only take place when mortality is swallowed up and that is at the second coming not when we die. Lets not ignore the first 4 verses because they make the foundation of what Paul is talking about. Paul looked forward to Jesus Christ's 2nd coming which only could grant him his wish of being present with the LORD.
@tygew I conclusion, the word spirit is not mentioned at all. There are two bodies, the earthly one and heavenly. One perishes the other has eternal life. One is natural or sinful the other is spiritual. I like Paul look forward to that moment when I shall receive my heavenly body and leave forever and ever with my Lord Jesus Christ without fear of death. There will be no more heart attacks, injuries & other pains in this body from Heaven. We shall be present with the LORD. God bless brother
@lamua11 That is a LIE based on twisting & ignoring 1 Cor 15 to adapt to a FALSE view of the unbiblical rapture theory. We will NEVER resurrect as a physical body! we are born flesh we are raised spirit 1Cor15:42-45 "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body", 35-36 "How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies", 50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable", We're resurrected as a spirit not as flesh.
@tygew Hi, I dont think its good as christians to call another brother" foolish". Paul says in the same chapter "for corruptible must put on incorruptible and this mortal must put on immortality" At the moment we posses mortal bodies which are corruptible hence we are sinful in nature but, this wont be the same when we receive the incorruptible immortal bodies. This is the same body that Jesus Christ possed after ressurection. The disciples thought He was a spirit but that was wrong. God bless
Tygew is quoting Paul in 1 Cor 15:36: "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die."
But you are correct we will inherit the SAME glorious body He had after His resurrection:
"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." Phil 3:21
As you rightly pointed out, Jesus' glorious body was NOT a spirit, He had flesh and bone. Lk 24;39 God bless.
@tygew Romans 8:22-23 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption to wit, the redemption of our body. (It will be a physical body). Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Jesus' spiritual body was physical. God bless
@tygew Philipians 3:20-21, for our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for our saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. I think this evidence from Paul himself who wrote the book of corinthians is profound enough to solve our debate my friend. God bless u
I keep showing you scriptures which plainly contradict your anti-scriptural view, and all you have been able to do so far is ignore them. So for the sake of edification you will have to start addressing them if you wish to continue. Sound fair?
Your right, it is raised a spiritual body. Spiritual body does not mean Invisible. Verse 43 clearly tells us what a sprirtual body is. "its is sown in dishonor; (the natural body) IT IS RAISED IN GLORY " (the sprirtual body is the glorious one). Same as the one Jesus Christ had when He resurrected from the dead. Mary Magdalene so Him visibly.A spirit does not eat. Rev 2:7 says to him that overcometh I will give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Jesus ate.
@tygew Spiritual things are spiritually discerned in other words a person under total influence of the SPIRIT OF GOD,undersatnds things on a spiritual level. Its only those who will have lived in obidience to the SPIRIT OF GOD that will attain this spiritual body. Those who do not walk after the flesh and its demands but after the Holy ghost.Therefore a sprirtual body is one where there is no war taking place but FULLY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. TOTAL ALLEGIANCE TO THE WILL OF GOD.
You don't know the bible, I Corinthians 15:54 "This moral must put on immortality" the scriptures make it clear that the dead are dead, onlly God has immortality- I Tim. 6:16. You error and are believing the first lie that satan told Eve, you shall not surely die, but be as God. This is spiritualism, and we must not wrestle with the scriptures to make them say what we want to believe and ignore the rest. We must compare scripture with scripture. The Spirit if the breath of life, that's all.
River6035 9 months ago
Thanks for all the feedback, I'll have to start a new thread here because of the too many comments. As far as spirit is concerned Jesus was a flesh body, resurrected as flesh, but He's Spirit now as clarified in Rev 2:7-8. "Hear what the SPIRIT saith - who died & lived again". Jesus is God, the same SPIRIT who ATE with Abraham in Gen 18:8 "& They did eat". Jesus was flesh, resurrected as flesh, but he became spirit when He ascended to the father as the father as 1 unseen omnipresent Holy Spirit
tygew 10 months ago
Cont: so when we die we too shall be as He is, as a glorified, resurrected SPIRIT. Keep in mind that "God is a spirit" John 4:24. Jesus is God the 1 Holy Spirit who's "everywhere at once" Mat 18:20. Angels are spirits, & when we die we too shall be "as the angels in heaven" Mat 22:30, Lk 20:36.
Your guys misunderstanding is in your not knowing that spirit is MORE than flesh; flesh is NOT more then spirit. Flesh came from spirit, yet our spirit is made manifest AFTER the flesh dies 1 Cor15:35-36
tygew 10 months ago
This body which sinned does not go to heaven but the glorified body does. Jesus Christ has one of these glorified ones. Read Luke 24:39-43. He told His disciples behold my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. In verse 43, Jesus ate boiled fish. Corruptible must put on incorruption (1 cor 15:51-54). Incorruption is your glorified body which comes with imortality as well. God bless
lamua11 11 months ago
This man is a liar/false teacher. The bible says that "flesh and blood can NOT inherit the spiritual realm, nor does perishable flesh become Spirit!". It also says that we do not resurrect till the body dies, and that we all resurrect as a spirit "each in his own order". The body NEVER goes to heaven EVER!!! "The flesh body ONLY dies and returns to dust, but the spirit returns to God who gave it". This man is a liar and the Truth is not in his words.
tygew 1 year ago
1Cor15:35-36Some may ask “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” HOW FOOLISH! What you sow does not come to life UNLESS IT DIES! (we will not resurrect UNLESS WE DIE. And we are ONLY resurrected as an INVISIBLE SPIRIT). 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. (flesh doesn't become spirit) 50 I declare to you, that FLESH & BLOOD cannot inherit the (unseen spiritual) kingdom of God, nor does the perishable (flesh) inherit the imperishable (spirit)
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew
Will God have to change our bodies to consist of spirit to inherit His Kingdom? Millions of Christians can tell you exactly when they were born again. But, are they all wrong? Let's see what scripture says about our new birth, and when it takes place.
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Jesus introduced this subject of the new birth to Nicodemus when He told him: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3 Jesus also taught that a man has to be born of the water and born of the spirit to enter God's Kingdom. Why so? Jesus tells him ""That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit.".
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
So does the spiritual birth mean God must first change you into a spirit being at the resurrection, or does He mean something else of ours must be changed BEFORE the resurrection?
We can test the spiritual body assumption, because we have at least two examples of godly people raised from the dead. The first is the large number of saints resurrected when Jesus died on the cross:
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." Matt 27:52-53. Interesting, these raised saints got up, and walked into the city where they were seen by many. They weren't invisible.
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
The main example of Jesus Himself is even clearer.
"As they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." Luke 24:36-39
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Jesus was not a spirit, He was real flesh & bones! So if Jesus wasn't talking about changing us into spirits to enter into His Kingdom, what exactly did Jesus mean then when He said that flesh & blood cannot inherit His Kingdom?
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
The word of God plainly states that flesh and spirit are two natures that continually war against each other, inside a man who has accepted Christ as Savior. "Flesh" does not refer to man's body but to his carnal, sinful nature. And "spirit" does not refer to a spirit being, but to a spiritual nature.
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Two influences, good and evil, each vying for supremacy in man. "For the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary, the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Gal 5:17
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Now Jesus' words have more meaning: "That which is born of flesh is flesh." We were all born with a sinful human nature, a nature with a propensity to satisfy SELF, and not the things of God. This flesh nature, ever sinful, would keep us out of heaven, were it not for a rebirth! When we are born again through Jesus' Spirit, we are born with a new nature, a spiritual nature.
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Paul describes these two natures:
"There is now therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh, they that are after the spirit the things of the spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:1, 5-6
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Becoming a Christian involves a new birth. It is dying to our old fleshy nature and letting Christ live in us through His Spirit, giving us His spiritual nature here, now, in this life!
"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me, And the life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Gal 2:20
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky Long posts for nothing, as I know scripture. You're a Preterist with false views. But you're closer to the truth than most people. Yes we are born spiritually. No we are NOT resurrected the day we're born again. The literal resurrection of THE LITERAL DEAD is the ONLY subject of 1Cor15. v1-4 is that Jesus died; v12 is asking why they don't believe in dead persons rising; V20 states that Jesus did rise FROM THE DEAD. The rest is that we too shall rise from the LITERAL dead as a spirit.
tygew 1 year ago
cont: You're lost in the meanings of the words. Yes we're born again into Christ. Yes the reign/kingdom/Spirit of God is within you. No were NOT resurrected when we're born again. Yes we're dead in sin. No we're not resurrected into the spiritual realm till the body literally dies. Yes we're born again spiritually, but you're missing that there is a spirit in you that's the real you. The real you is released when your physical body dies. You are NOT resurrected from the dead flesh/body yet.
tygew 1 year ago
cont: You have to read 1Cor15 in its context. Forget everything you think you know & start all over with v3-4. Then read v12, then v16, 20-26, 35-36, read v36 a few more times; then v44, then read it in context v42-45; read Gen 2:7 to see that Adam means flesh/mankind; read 1 Cor15:50 to see that dead flesh doesn't resurrect at your death; read 46-55 to see that our literal death & a spiritual resurrection is the real subject. It's not about being born again, but rather that we'll rise a spirit
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew
Jesus rose from the dead with His glorified body consisting of flesh & bones. Luke 24:39. When we rise in the resurrection we will receive a glorified body JUST LIKE HIS. Phil 3:21. So if we AREN'T changed into a spirit being when we rise, like Jesus WASN'T, what does Jesus mean when He says flesh cannot inherit His Kingdom?
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
As with 1 Cor 15, in Galatians chapter 5 Paul talks about flesh and spirit being two contrary NATURES of man, not what man consists of:
"For the FLESH lusteth against the SPIRIT and the SPIRIT against the FLESH. And these are contrary, the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Gal 5:17
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
We are BORN AGAIN when we accept His nature by His Holy Spirit, when God changes our nature to His spirit nature, an INCORRUPTIBLE one, because that new nature lives forever:
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED but INCORRUPTIBLE, through the word of God which lives and abides forever." 1 Pet 1:22-23
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Those who have been BORN AGAIN, as Jesus says we MUST be to enter into His Kingdom (John 3:7), abide forever, are incorruptible. It is not because God has to first change us into spirit beings, but because everything of God's nature endures!
"All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, But the word of the LORD endures forever." 1 Pet 1:24-25
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky You missed the ball I threw you. I threw a basketball & you caught a golf ball lol. You missed that all of 1 Cor 15 is ONLY saying that Jesus rose from the dead & so shall we at our deaths. But we will not resurrect a flesh body, but rather we'll resurrect as a spirit, instantly in the twinkling of an eye. FLESH DOES NOT BECOME SPIRIT; Our spirit only resurrects after we die; we are born flesh we are raised spirit. Stop twisting 1 Cor 15 to adapt to your false view! Read it in its context
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Cor 15:50
You think that flesh and blood cannot enter into His Kingdom because we must be changed first into a being made of spirit, but that isn't what Paul nor other Bible writers say, as I've already referenced several scriptures to show that. Have you read them?
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED but INCORRUPTIBLE, through the word of God which lives and abides forever." 1 Pet 1:22-23
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Both Peter & Paul say when we are born again, the new birth of God's nature in us through His Spirit, we are BORN of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED, all the while still living in earthly, weak, subject to death & decay bodies. We are incorruptible even in this life in these weak bodies because our new birth. Our new birth is our new nature through Christ Jesus, just as Jesus taught Nicodemus we must be born again to enter into His Kingdom. John 3:3
Nirky 1 year ago
@tygew
Scripture tells us we are born again NOW in THIS LIFE, that is why we can inherit Jesus' Kingdom, not because He needs to change us into spirit beings! The dead in Christ are raised incorruptible--not because they have to be converted to spirit beings, but because they have already been born again with Christ's incorruptible nature.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky I'm not stupid; you're the one missing the point here not me. 1 Cor 15 is Paul speaking to the assembly about "the resurrection of THE DEAD". He says that Jesus rose from the dead & so shall we. But he clarifies that our bodies will not rise from the dead, that just our spirits will; that this flesh body must die first, then we're resurrected as an invisible spirit. There's dead in sin & then a rebirth spiritually. There's ALSO dead physically & an instantaneous resurrection as a spirit
tygew 1 year ago
2 Corinthians 5: Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord (AS SPIRIT). 9 Wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him.
tygew 1 year ago
Our spirit is the true us. When we die the body rots & disappears to dust, NEVER to be resurrected again. But our spirit, THE TRUE US, goes to God: Eccl 12:7 the dust (our DEAD bodies) returneth to the earth as it was & the spirit (the true us) returneth unto God who gave it
We're a spirit that was born as flesh & after we die we're raised a spirit again. We die to sin & are born again of the Spirit of God. We also die later physically & resurrect as a spirit; they'e not the same things
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Hi there I think there is a misunderstanding of the word Spirit here. The hebrew word used here "ruwach" means breath, wind or mind not some sort of disembodied. In this context its the breath that God gave man when He created him that goes abck to God. Psalms 146:4, His breathe (ruwach) goeth fourth, He returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish. Its simply the breath that goes back to GOD. And God breathed into his nostrils the breath (ruwach) of life (Gen 2:7)
lamua11 11 months ago
@lamua11 The misunderstanding is on your part. I have seen spirit; God is a Spirit; we too are spirit, & when we die we resurrect as a spirit. It's spirit that gives life -- NOT breath/air. As a mater of fact the word used for 'air' is pneumo, which is also translated as 'spirit'. At our deaths we are caught up into the spiritual realm, the pneumo, aka 'the air'. We are spirit not air.
tygew 10 months ago
@tygew Hi my friend as you will notice in my note above I used the Hebrew word (Ruwach) & not the greek word Pneuma. The hebrew word Ruwach for breath or spirit is the greek equivalent for Pneuma. The word Spirit has different meanings in both the old & new testament and it depends on the context in which its used. It can mean breath, seat of emotions, Holy Spirit or wind. Its never used to mean another being in us that leaves at death and goes in the Spiritual realm. The dead know not nothing
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew cont: God gives us life through the Spirit or breathe that he imparts in our nostrils. "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils" Job 27:3 You will note here that the words breath and spirit are used interchangeably. The hebrew word ruwach is used in both cases and in this context Job is talking about wind. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Gen 2:7
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew cont: dust +breath (or spirit)= living soul. Dust without breath the soul ceases to exist. A living soul cannot exist without either dust or air. This divine spark of breath from God is the controlling force or Humans and animals. This breath of life which is translated at times as spirit is the same found in animals. Does this imply that animals too have a spirit or are spirit? I dont think so
lamua11 10 months ago
And behold, I even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and everything that is the earth shall die (Gen 6:17). "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, where in is the breath of life". And all flesh died that move upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of the beast and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth and every man.And in whose nostrils was the breathe of life
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew cont: All animals and humans in whose nostrils was the breath of life or spirit (Ruwach or pneuma) and neglected the call of Noah to enter the ark was destroyed by the flood. What returned to God was their breath of life or spirit or wind which God gave them. The breath of life that you and I have is the same as that of animals. We & animals were both created from dust and return to dust. What differs us from animals is we were created in the image & likeness of God. God bless u brother
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew
2 Corinthians 5 talks about our assurance of the resurrection & the blessedness of being with the Lord Jesus for all eternity, nowhere does it say we will be with Him as spirit beings.
Nirky 1 year ago
@Nirky Jesus is Spirit, the unseen omnipresent Holy Spirit. We too will be as He is, as a resurrected spirit. We too will be resurrected spirits like the angels: v44 "It is sown in corruption (as DEAD flesh) it is raised (resurrected) a spirit". v36 "How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies". Now go read 42-50 again.
tygew 1 year ago
@tygew Lets not ignore the first 4 verses that make the basis of what Paul is talking about. Verse 1 talks about a eathly house (our body) which if were dissolved, there is another one not made by hands eternal in the heavens. vs 2 for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with or house which is from heaven. This sinful body has no immortality hence is destroyed when we die. The one fro heaven is immortal so we earnestly groan to be clothed with immortality. cont;
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew cont: vs 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. Mortality brings a sense of being naked. The sense of nakedness that Adam and Eve experienced is no longer visible as a result of being clothed with the heavenly house. Vs 4 In this verse Paul states the result of being clothed with our heavenly house "that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Upon receiving the body from heaven "mortality is swallowed up but when is this? cont:
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew cont 1cor 15:54 Paul says "So when the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written "death is swalllowed up i victory".
The earlier verses 51 & 52 tells us that this would take place at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Those that are alive and have been walking with Jesus shall be translated. The dead in Christ shall be resurrected with new imortal bodies. "the house from Heaven"
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew 2 Cor 5:5-8 Paul is simply confirming what he said in earlier verses that while we are at home in these earthly bodies we are absent from the Lord. To be present with the Lord can only take place when mortality is swallowed up and that is at the second coming not when we die. Lets not ignore the first 4 verses because they make the foundation of what Paul is talking about. Paul looked forward to Jesus Christ's 2nd coming which only could grant him his wish of being present with the LORD.
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew I conclusion, the word spirit is not mentioned at all. There are two bodies, the earthly one and heavenly. One perishes the other has eternal life. One is natural or sinful the other is spiritual. I like Paul look forward to that moment when I shall receive my heavenly body and leave forever and ever with my Lord Jesus Christ without fear of death. There will be no more heart attacks, injuries & other pains in this body from Heaven. We shall be present with the LORD. God bless brother
lamua11 10 months ago
@lamua11 That is a LIE based on twisting & ignoring 1 Cor 15 to adapt to a FALSE view of the unbiblical rapture theory. We will NEVER resurrect as a physical body! we are born flesh we are raised spirit 1Cor15:42-45 "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body", 35-36 "How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies", 50 "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable", We're resurrected as a spirit not as flesh.
tygew 10 months ago
@tygew Hi, I dont think its good as christians to call another brother" foolish". Paul says in the same chapter "for corruptible must put on incorruptible and this mortal must put on immortality" At the moment we posses mortal bodies which are corruptible hence we are sinful in nature but, this wont be the same when we receive the incorruptible immortal bodies. This is the same body that Jesus Christ possed after ressurection. The disciples thought He was a spirit but that was wrong. God bless
lamua11 10 months ago
@lamua11
Tygew is quoting Paul in 1 Cor 15:36: "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die."
But you are correct we will inherit the SAME glorious body He had after His resurrection:
"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." Phil 3:21
As you rightly pointed out, Jesus' glorious body was NOT a spirit, He had flesh and bone. Lk 24;39 God bless.
Nirky 10 months ago
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@tygew Romans 8:22-23 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also which have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption to wit, the redemption of our body. (It will be a physical body). Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Jesus' spiritual body was physical. God bless
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew Philipians 3:20-21, for our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for our saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. I think this evidence from Paul himself who wrote the book of corinthians is profound enough to solve our debate my friend. God bless u
lamua11 10 months ago
@tygew
I keep showing you scriptures which plainly contradict your anti-scriptural view, and all you have been able to do so far is ignore them. So for the sake of edification you will have to start addressing them if you wish to continue. Sound fair?
Nirky 1 year ago
Your right, it is raised a spiritual body. Spiritual body does not mean Invisible. Verse 43 clearly tells us what a sprirtual body is. "its is sown in dishonor; (the natural body) IT IS RAISED IN GLORY " (the sprirtual body is the glorious one). Same as the one Jesus Christ had when He resurrected from the dead. Mary Magdalene so Him visibly.A spirit does not eat. Rev 2:7 says to him that overcometh I will give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Jesus ate.
lamua11 11 months ago
@tygew Spiritual things are spiritually discerned in other words a person under total influence of the SPIRIT OF GOD,undersatnds things on a spiritual level. Its only those who will have lived in obidience to the SPIRIT OF GOD that will attain this spiritual body. Those who do not walk after the flesh and its demands but after the Holy ghost.Therefore a sprirtual body is one where there is no war taking place but FULLY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. TOTAL ALLEGIANCE TO THE WILL OF GOD.
lamua11 11 months ago
keep preaching pastor Bohr
timsh6 1 year ago
amen nirky
timsh6 1 year ago
thank you Nirky for posting these videos
resurrectionway 2 years ago